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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2022-06-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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07:40 nrz if there is donations i think this it should go to the expenses in terms of OPEX, ie. forum & site hosting, maybe some coredev tooling (SaaS solutions ? software licenses to dev ?) and after let's see what can we do.
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12:15 schwarzwald[m] Looking for some guidance on how to verify the correctness of the IrrlichtMt mesh buffer handling. I can also skip it for now and work on the next report item though.
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13:00 rubenwardy Nrz: you're late and missing the point, as usual
13:15 MTDiscord <luatic> rubenwardy: and you're impolite, as unusual
13:15 rubenwardy True
13:17 rubenwardy nrz: we're in a position where we already have enough to cover expenses. If there's particular other things that are needed, then they can be added. We're already in "after that"
13:18 rubenwardy Oh, one thing I've thought of: cloud Android testing. There's online servers that allow you to test your app on thousands of different devices, I'm not sure how it works but that would be useful
13:18 rubenwardy *services
13:35 Zughy[m] well, also money for bug bounties and hiring some devs wouldn't be bad I guess
13:35 Zughy[m] more money = faster development pace
13:41 celeron55 if someone has the time and is ready to eg. use a month of such android testing efficiently, just tell me. as long as i'm funneling donations towards a service and not a person, i can do it
13:42 celeron55 the problem in what nrz said is the "after let's see what can we do". how do we see that?
13:43 celeron55 we're already there, and "what we can do" is balatantly unclear
13:43 celeron55 unless the answer is "nothing"
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13:43 celeron55 then it's very clear
13:56 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It sounds to me like the theory is (1) make it easier for people to donate above and beyond expenses, (2) have extra money, then (3) think of things you can spend it on that would benefit the project.  I'm skeptical [a] that having more money WOULD cause more things to spend it on to surface, as often volunteers spend above and beyond already, and [b] that it would actually be a good, or even sane, idea to go LOOKING for expenses.
13:57 MTDiscord <Warr1024> On the flip side, faster hosting for stuff like the forums would be nice, but I dunno how far out on a limb that could put people financially.
14:10 celeron55 yes i (and i think others too) want the things to spend on first, not the money first
14:11 celeron55 it's borderline illegal to collect funds when you don't have a non-profit organization and don't have anything to directly spend them on
14:12 celeron55 unless it's implied that it's payment for work
14:12 celeron55 of course depends on the country
14:12 celeron55 anyway, i (and i think others too) want the things to spend on first, not the money first
14:13 celeron55 i could certainly move the forum on a faster host, and i don't even need donations right now for that, i have plenty of buffer for that. but doing that makes it really difficult to scale back in the future
14:13 celeron55 so it needs to be 100% certain i don't have to downscale before i do it
14:15 celeron55 for me it's way more comfortable to have the buffer and have a slightly slow forum, than to have an as-fast-as-possible forum and slim buffer, and having to count the pennies and beg for money
14:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yeah, if you could have a subscription-based system instead of one time donations then that would make it easier to predict future cashflow, but I'm not sure I like the framing around tools like patreon where you're expected to give exclusive perks to patrons and it becomes a tit-for-tat kind of arrangement.
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14:17 celeron55 personally i'm just really happy i'm so far from having to say "please donate or i'll shut down the forum because i'm not here to pay it myself"
14:18 celeron55 i don't have further monetary goals regarding to MT
14:18 celeron55 it's exactly where i want to be
14:20 celeron55 and i'm very happy the relatively buried donation button gives me this amount of funds. it's an absolute luxury not having to beg
14:21 celeron55 as i said, if someone wants to use a paid service for some development task, i can help. even if you're doing it just to learn the service it's fine as long as it benefits MT
14:22 celeron55 other than these uses, i can't really justify any spending
14:37 nrz rubenwardy, as usual yes, is this a criticism ? i am busy and i talk asynchronously, does than mean my idea is not right ? :p
14:38 nrz note #12462 always needs love :)p
14:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12462 -- fix: various unitinialized or badly initialized variables by nerzhul
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16:27 Soni can we have server access API? (ability to bind server to socket, including unix socket, from mods) for "Open to LAN"/"Open to Friend Code" functionality? (for mods with system privileges ofc)
16:29 MTDiscord <LandarVargan> You can bind to a unix socket with mods I think
16:33 Soni not the same as binding the (internal) server to a socket
16:36 rubenwardy no, that doesn't have much chance for happening
16:36 rubenwardy binding to sockets is a server owner thing
16:37 rubenwardy See `bind_address` in minetest.conf
16:37 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5.5.1/minetest.conf.example#L1227
16:39 Soni then why does singleplayer allow binding to sockets - but only at startup?
16:40 Krock huh? singleplayer creates an internal loopback
16:42 Soni can... can one use that internal loopback with a proxy?
16:42 Krock why would you do that? singleplayer is called singleplayer for a reason
16:43 Krock what you need is to host a local server by either running minetestserver or ticking the "Host server" checkbox in the main menu
16:43 Krock and in that case the bind_address setting becomes relevant.
16:44 Soni for "open to LAN" functionality
16:44 Soni or "open to proxy"
16:44 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> I assume Soni wants something like Minecraft's "Open to LAN" option where you can make an already existing singleplayer server open for others to join
16:44 Soni or "open to tailscale"
16:45 Krock I don't understand what that's supposed to be. Minetest knows the concept of regular servers. whether or not socket files are accepted is up to the porting implementation that I'm not familiar with
16:45 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> since, well, it's still a server that's running on a random port, people could theoretically join but they will be immediately kicked with a message that the server is in singleplayer mode
16:46 Krock just set a default server password
16:46 Krock people will have to log in with that to register a new account
16:47 Krock Minetest does not have a "hybrid singleplayer" mode. either it's broadly accessible or not.
16:48 Soni sure, so, once again: <Soni> can we have server access API? (ability to bind server to socket, including unix socket, from mods) for "Open to LAN"/"Open to Friend Code" functionality? (for mods with system privileges ofc)
16:48 Soni "it doesn't have a hybrid mode" isn't an answer to "can we have a hybrid mode"
16:49 Krock mods cannot create a server instance. the server loads mods instead.
16:49 Krock you'd need to mod the main menu to overwrite the default behaviour
16:49 Krock "can we have a hybrid mode" is not a question but a feature request
16:50 rubenwardy the problem with opening up a singleplayer instance is that the host is called "singleplayer" which will break things
16:50 rubenwardy the solution may be to get rid of this behaviour, and require players to enter a player name
16:50 Soni so we're better off emulating the minetest protocol with fake entities?
16:51 rubenwardy but there's not a huge amount of benefit over just clicking Host server
16:51 Krock you could create a new issue on Github to note down your feature request
16:51 rubenwardy I'm not a fan of the singleplayer user personally, it's weird to see in world like "singleplayer's chest" etc
16:53 Soni (also what's that about modding the menu?)
16:55 rubenwardy the main menu is in Lua. You can override it by using the setting to set the path to the scripts
17:20 Soni hmm alright that's 3 issues opened, anything we forgot?
17:42 Zughy[m] 4 new issues in not even an hour: that's evil
17:43 Soni one of those is purely bonus points ^^
17:46 Zughy[m] tip: you can remove the "A clear and concise etc." text when you open a new issue 👀
17:47 Zughy[m] I would edit them, but I can't :))))
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18:01 Soni we wonder if the proxy thing would be easy
18:01 Soni it's not purely network, you need a DB for proxy passwords
18:02 Soni but it should be more or less easy
18:03 Soni (also server admins might argue you need a way to add/remove proxies at runtime. also this would potentially allow minetest to work in a browser, using wasm.)
18:10 schwarzwald[m] Soni: It looks like the WebAuthn key is based on the hardware of the host machine; what do I need to do to transfer it to another set of hardware?
18:11 Soni schwarzwald[m]: it is not. unless you're using the windows or android webauthn stuff, in which case it is. but if you're using an actual webauthn key, like a yubikey or a solokeys, it's independent of the machine.
18:13 schwarzwald[m] Ah, so it's an authentication key you carry around with you as another device you plug in? Do you usually log into applications that way?
18:14 Soni yes
18:14 Soni https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/blob/master/PROTOCOL.u2f
18:15 Soni (this might be more helpful)
18:18 Soni (definitely non-trivial tho)
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18:50 Soni btw has anyone done anything about the lack of loading screens e.g. in the menu?
18:51 Soni hmm server list does have a loading screen, it's just browse content that locks up
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23:25 MTDiscord <MisterE> Soni: minetest.dustlabs.io
23:29 Soni ah *nod*
23:30 Soni yeah, doesn't work with IP bans
23:37 MTDiscord <MisterE> Thats right :|

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