| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:25 |
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| 10:04 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 10:55 |
btdmaster |
Hi there! GCC 11.2 was printing warnings (Wstringop-overflow) on `o.array[substrAllocLength - 1] = 0;` inside of irrlicht/include/irrString.h. I simply deleted the line and rebuilt and it seemed to run OK. Is there anything that expects that to be a zero-terminated string? Thank you! |
| 10:55 |
btdmaster |
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| 11:16 |
erle |
> I simply deleted the line |
| 11:16 |
erle |
LMAO |
| 11:17 |
erle |
btdmaster strings in C++ are usually zero-terminated. i do not know about this specific code, but deleting lines that trigger compiler warnings is almost always not correct. |
| 11:17 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> programming life hacks, just remove the code that throws a warning |
| 11:18 |
erle |
deleted code is debugged code! |
| 11:18 |
erle |
think THEY don't want you to know. |
| 11:19 |
btdmaster |
i appreciate that that was reckless |
| 11:19 |
erle |
do you know about gdb? |
| 11:20 |
erle |
it is a tool called a debugger |
| 11:20 |
btdmaster |
i know it exists, i do not know how to use it |
| 11:20 |
erle |
you can use a debugger to examine program state at the point where the string overflow (or what ever that worning means?) occurs |
| 11:21 |
erle |
well i can not help you there, i use it rarely. but it is a GNU project, so it probably has good documentation. |
| 13:24 |
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| 15:31 |
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| 15:32 |
Wuzzy |
The patents for Simplex noise have expired this year. What do you think about Simplex noise? Useful for Minetest? Ideas on how to use it? |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:41 |
erle |
Wuzzy, what issues do you see with existing noise? |
| 15:42 |
Wuzzy |
none |
| 15:42 |
Wuzzy |
I was just asking in the blue what your thoughts about Simplex noise are |
| 15:48 |
erle |
well, i am not sure if the lack of directional artifacts is relevant for a game made out of cubes |
| 15:48 |
erle |
same for the smoothness |
| 15:49 |
erle |
like what use is a gradient if you are going to quantize it anyway |
| 15:52 |
erle |
Wuzzy have you tried playing around with a mapgen where you change the noise function to see if it looks/plays more interesting? |
| 15:54 |
erle |
i doubt computational complexity matters btw |
| 15:55 |
erle |
like take n^2 vs 2^n complexity, where n is the dimension. for three dimensionsal noise, one is 8, the other is 9. |
| 15:58 |
erle |
also, perlin noise naturally makes rectangles and blocks, right? then simplex noise would make … trangles in 2d space and pyramids in 3d space? again, the game world is cubes. |
| 15:58 |
erle |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex |
| 16:01 |
Wuzzy |
haven't played around with it. its just a thought |
| 16:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> I can have a crack at it since I implemented proper voronoi cells in my experimental mapgen |
| 16:02 |
Wuzzy |
Craft uses simplex noise, so its defitiely an example that it could work |
| 16:02 |
erle |
i have seen artifacts that smoother noise might not have |
| 16:02 |
erle |
but i am not sure if these are a problem of the noise |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:35 |
Krock |
will push #12193 and #12187 in 15 minutes |
| 16:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12193 -- Send chat error when attemping to /set a secure setting by GoodClover |
| 16:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12187 -- Fix '[combine' for when EVDF_TEXTURE_NPOT is disabled by paradust7 |
| 16:47 |
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| 16:50 |
Krock |
ᕕ(⌐■_■)ᕗ ♪♬ merging |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> sfan5 @rubenwardy a bit of an emergency i think: today when downloading minetest's source from git, it is not possible to checkout stable-5. Something in the git config is messed up this article fixed it: https://stackoverflow.com/a/46282491 |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> and it happened for the person I was helping to build minetst, then I tried it and it happened to me |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
Git config is a local thing |
| 17:24 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I mean the configuration files downloaded from the repo |
| 17:24 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> @rubenwardy try to clone minetest and then try to checkout stable-5 |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
You probably just need to git fetch |
| 17:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> try it |
| 17:27 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> PS C:\Users\gbrru\minetest-test> cd .\minetest\ PS C:\Users\gbrru\minetest-test\minetest> git checkout stable-5 error: pathspec 'stable-5' did not match any file(s) known to git |
| 17:27 |
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Komodo joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:27 |
Komodo |
hello dev-world |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I was helping Komodo build minetest, he discovered the issue |
| 17:30 |
Krock |
you might as well be able to specify a branch to check out on clone |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> maybe, but this issue breaks the build process in the readme |
| 17:30 |
Krock |
shallow clones do not contain the required information to check out older branches by default |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> its worked in the past |
| 17:30 |
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| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> oh... its because of that depth -1 |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> isnt it? |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
exactly |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> @rubenwardy sorry, Krock is right, its that depth-1 that casued the issue |
| 17:37 |
Komodo |
yeah, thanks krick |
| 17:37 |
Komodo |
krock* |
| 18:01 |
sfan5 |
--depth=1 is okay when you when you use -b in the same command instead of trying to checkout later |
| 18:07 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> well, there was a critical error, but it wasnt on your end after all. Brainbug fixed. Thanks for your paitence lol |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:35 |
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| 20:46 |
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| 21:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Re: simplex noise: Never, EVER discount a feature just because you think it might not be relevant to a block game (erle) |
| 22:00 |
erle |
GreenXenith noise is not a feature. it is, by itself, nonfunctional. |
| 22:00 |
erle |
i think the easiest way to figure out if simplex noise brings anything useful to the table is to use it |
| 22:01 |
erle |
but my thoughts about this stopped at “how do i map tetraeders to cubes for the 3d noise” |
| 22:02 |
erle |
and maybe i do not have to do that, but then i realized i do not understand it and need to see it |
| 22:02 |
erle |
that's all |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> erle: L-system trees are not a feature. it is, by itself, non functional. |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> math.random is not a feature. it is, by itself, nonfunctional. |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> VoxelManip is not a feature. it is, by itself, nonfunctional. |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> tl;dr: That is a stupid take. |
| 22:05 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> If you want to take the "useful feature" route, just look at pathfinding: TWO implementations that are useless because the pathfinding method implementation isnt designed to be used properly. |
| 22:05 |
erle |
look, the equivalent would be “the RNG used for math.random is not a feature” |
| 22:06 |
erle |
what exactly is useless about pathfinding? |
| 22:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The method doesnt return enough information |
| 22:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Minetest's implementation is functionally useless, not conceptually |
| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Anyway, I dont care what the semantics are, your take is awful. Never discount anything just because you dont see the use in it. |
| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> "my argument was foiled, guess i must nitpick about inconsequential flaws |
| 22:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> erle's arguments boil down to: does this feature let me have free minecraft ? feature : bug or nonfunctional; |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I know its an abrasive way to say it but I am really disappointed in the frequent attitude of "if it seems useless to me it must be" |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> So forgive me if it sounds like an attack, erle |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's called tunnel vision, losing the trees for the forest |
| 22:27 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Also cementing your opinion before you even know how simplex noise works is sort of ridiculous |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> erle: simplex noise is a very common noise to use for mapgen next to perlin, and sometimes even in conjunction with perlin |
| 22:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> also Minetest's perlin implementation for the zx_stride is trying to fix a problem that ain't broke |
| 22:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I suspect he's ignored the bridge, so not much use continuing |
| 22:31 |
erle |
GreenXenith where did i say it is useless? i concluded with “seems useless to me, but let's try it” |
| 22:32 |
erle |
GreenXenith Jordach so what do you see in simplex noise? also, curiously, why don't i see simplex noise very often in gaming? |
| 22:32 |
erle |
is it just the patents? |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> because patent trolls exist, see SCO |
| 22:32 |
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panwolfram joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> (also see Hello Games vs that company over procgen patents) |
| 22:33 |
erle |
okay, so what would simplex noise improve in minetest? |
| 22:33 |
erle |
or what could it improve |
| 22:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> not a lot, you're better off just shifting rows of pixels left and right per row |
| 22:33 |
erle |
uh, why would i shift pixels? |
| 22:33 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Well right there, you just quoted it, but your overall argument was about it being useless. I will concede that you did at least give it a try |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> basically simplex noise tries to avoid the pixel-y looking nature of perlin |
| 22:34 |
erle |
could this avoid having biomes that are like 3x3x3 nodes? |
| 22:34 |
erle |
or single stone nodes hanging out in the sky? |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> no, those are mapgen issues related to get_spawn_at_pos() being wack |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i discovered why i got stone clouds in reverb |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's cavegen depending on the same algo as player spawns |
| 22:35 |
erle |
wait what |
| 22:35 |
erle |
tell more lease |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> basically if you have a C shaped stony 3x3 area |
| 22:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and there's a full air mapblock |
| 22:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> cavegen ignores it, but will cut it into the stone |
| 22:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> on mapblocks that do have a valid height check |
| 22:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's also why it occasionally creates underwater bubbles |
| 22:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> if you want to fix the tiny biome problem, just increase the xyz scaling of np_biome_heat/humid by 2-8x |
| 22:37 |
erle |
hehe |
| 22:37 |
erle |
giant tiny biomes |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's also excaserbated by most mods shoving 30+ biomes into a 64^2km region expecting it to work out |
| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> even though the engine provides a native way to define regions for decorations to spawn via noiseparams |
| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> which means less overall biome definitions |
| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> we already do this for ores in a 3d noise manner, and MTG does it for papyrus iirc |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> alongside it's water_source spawn requirement |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> also, regarding the pixel-y nature of perlin, just drop lancularity to 1.85 and persistence to 1.5 |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it goes away very fast on those settings |
| 22:58 |
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| 23:15 |
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