| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
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| 03:59 |
celeron55 |
packer sounds vague enough to make someone look up what its actual purpose is. serialization tends to have more implications that you don't want |
| 04:00 |
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| 06:02 |
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| 08:22 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> what would it take for #7865 to be merged? I feel it is a very important feature that improves the Android control scheme significantly |
| 08:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7865 -- Add crosshair support for Android by srifqi |
| 09:05 |
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| 09:52 |
sfan5 |
reviews probably? |
| 09:52 |
sfan5 |
more importantly someone needs to figure out why android is so crashy on the play store, we can't release new versions without this fixes |
| 09:52 |
sfan5 |
fixed* |
| 10:02 |
ROllerozxa |
fair enough |
| 10:23 |
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| 10:26 |
sfan5 |
just found out the default chat limit also applies to commands |
| 10:27 |
erle |
by doing what? |
| 10:34 |
sfan5 |
by sending more chat commands than the limit allows? |
| 10:35 |
erle |
yeah but for what purpose |
| 10:43 |
rubenwardy |
I wasn't able to get the tracebacks from the play store. We need better tooling |
| 10:43 |
sfan5 |
did you upload debug symbols? |
| 11:34 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Hey, my phone crashes on 5.5 can I be useful? |
| 11:47 |
sfan5 |
perhaps |
| 11:47 |
sfan5 |
going by what ruben said if you can build a debug build, run it and extract the backtrace from logcat that'd be useful |
| 12:05 |
rubenwardy |
The build didn't generate the .zip that the docs said it should, and I remember having problems making my own |
| 12:06 |
rubenwardy |
My workaround was to use a tool to deobscure the traces locally, but that didn't work on the 5.5.0 crashes |
| 12:06 |
Zughy[m] |
considering you can barely follow the PC version of MT, have you considered dropping Android support for now? |
| 12:07 |
Zughy[m] |
Because, I mean, it's bad anyway |
| 12:07 |
sfan5 |
<thing> is bad therefore we should make it worse? |
| 12:08 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: from what I've seen you can loosely throw the unstripped .so's into a ZIP and google will take it |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:11 |
Zughy[m] |
no, it's <thing> is bad and we don't seem able to follow it properly anyway, so it might be better to just drop it till we actually have time/manpower for that, whilst focusing on other things we can actually handle in the meantime |
| 13:40 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> I'm all for leaving the old version up and trying to put more resources into android. |
| 13:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> please, do not drop android support. That would be awful. Many blockbomber players can only use android, and the game is surprisingly playable on android |
| 13:57 |
Zughy[m] |
<MTDiscord> "<exe_virus> I'm all for leaving..." <- and where are you going to take those resources exactly? As far as I know there are no core devs focusing specifically on Android, and they're already pretty busy with the general engine. I'm sorry but Android version is bad, plenty of people uses Multicraft instead for a reason. Last time I checked they had a full team of people working solely on an Android version, how can you compare |
| 13:57 |
Zughy[m] |
with no people at all? |
| 13:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> most people I know that play Multicraft were those who use iOS since we don't have any official release on there, those on Android actually play on official Minetest app |
| 14:00 |
Zughy[m] |
IMHO choosing to keep supporting both things when there is evidently not enough time and energy to support even just one thing (devs are in charge of Irrlicht too now, contrary to some months ago) means badly supporting both of them |
| 14:01 |
Zughy[m] |
is there some active contributor active on making PRs for Android? |
| 14:03 |
sfan5 |
the premise seems to be that android is taking away time from us doing more important things, but in terms of actual time spent this is not the case |
| 14:09 |
erle |
zughy where does your idea of “focus” come from and how did you not go from “it's a manpower problem” to “add more devs or reviewers” (as i adcovated) ? do you think a smaller team is superior or do you think no one would help? |
| 14:09 |
erle |
i mean you have been saying it for a while but i don't really see that some tasks take away from others, exactly as sfan5 says. |
| 14:10 |
erle |
many devs have their special area |
| 14:11 |
erle |
rubenwardy are there non-play-store builds that could help you with debugging? i have an old phone with a shattered screen (i.e. it is unusable), it does run android, but i doubt i can get a play store on it. |
| 14:12 |
sfan5 |
the release section contains APKs |
| 14:12 |
erle |
well the important question is if running those *helps* |
| 14:12 |
erle |
i.e. how to get the debug info you need |
| 14:13 |
erle |
for example, the thing has no internet connection |
| 14:13 |
erle |
so whatever non-play-store telemetry is there, you can't get to it |
| 14:21 |
ROllerozxa |
adb logcat I guess? I don't think play services crash telemetry would be able to magically create anything more than what already gets printed to there |
| 14:24 |
sfan5 |
correct, for example this is what google play gives us https://0x0.st/ob6_.txt |
| 14:28 |
sfan5 |
although a small detail is still missing #11131 is now ready for review |
| 14:28 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11131 -- [MANUAL MERGE] Async environment for mods to do concurrent tasks by sfan5 |
| 15:20 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> is there a good guide to building minetest for android on windows? I have found some horribly out-of-date guides |
| 15:25 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Isn't it done on Linux? |
| 15:25 |
ROllerozxa |
Dunno about Windows but on Linux you can build it by installing OpenJDK 11+ and Gradle, downloading the Android SDK to somewhere and setting the ANDROID_SDK_ROOT env-variable to that location, and doing `./gradlew build`. After that Gradle will install the necessary dependencies (e.g. the NDK) and start building Minetest |
| 15:25 |
ROllerozxa |
this was how I set up to build Minetest for Android at least |
| 15:27 |
ROllerozxa |
Gradle, OpenJDK and the Android SDK all exist on Windows but it's probably slightly more complicated there |
| 15:45 |
Zughy[m] |
erle: my idea of focus comes from the 1.1k+ issues and 120+PRs, which show that devs can't handle the current situation already. About the "add more devs or reviewers", I've already expressed my suggestions on the forum (I saw your comment this morning) |
| 16:01 |
erle |
Zughy[m] so are you saying that adding more people would make it worse? |
| 16:02 |
erle |
a.k.a. “the mythical man month” |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:04 |
erle |
wuzzy i think your point about the style of reviews mattering is spot-on. it can be *very* frustrating for people to first get advice from a “human linter” but no advice on if the approach is even correct. |
| 16:05 |
erle |
i have alienated contributors in other projects with this style of review myself, so i know what i'm talking about ;> |
| 16:22 |
Zughy[m] |
erle: no, I'm saying that having a method will improve the situation no matter whether there are new maintainers or not |
| 16:23 |
Zughy[m] |
I think nobody despises new maintainers as long as they're competent and they don't ghost the project after a month |
| 17:20 |
MTDiscord |
</g/> Thank you for adding async environment sfan5, you made my day |
| 17:21 |
erle |
what are you planning to use it for? |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:33 |
v-rob[m] |
Just a note: if there's a meeting tomorrow at 6 PM UTC, I'll likely be able to come partway through at 6:30 PM. |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Zughy: Minetest continues to grow in popularity, and with the kinds of people that would file issues and make PRs. I would say that in order to handle the workload, we do need more people, but by no means are the current priorities just wrong. Hopefully when I start selling this as a retail box I can help give us some resources to pay some people to help out. We'll see |
| 17:37 |
v-rob[m] |
Retail? |
| 17:38 |
erle |
lol what |
| 17:38 |
erle |
minetest retail box when and where |
| 18:20 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 19:03 |
erle |
zughy if you think that your ideas are sound, why haven't you forked minetest? |
| 19:04 |
erle |
this is not a troll question. if you would ask me, the answer is: i do not have the energy right now. |
| 19:32 |
ROllerozxa |
erle: you develop a minetest hacked client though right? |
| 19:33 |
erle |
no, cora does. |
| 19:36 |
erle |
ROllerozxa, waspsaliva (cora's client) is basically a) new GUI for enabling/disabling rendering options and CSMs (i think mostly made by fleckenstein) b) new lua APIs c) CSMs that use these APIs. otherwise she tries to follow vanilla minetest, but i am not sure if she has managed to get a ws variant of 5.5 out yet. |
| 19:37 |
ROllerozxa |
ah |
| 19:39 |
erle |
i do think that some of those things would be very useful for vanilla minetest, like toggling rendering opitons at runtime. but every time i ask people what APIs would be useful for vanilla minetest, the immediate answer is something along the lines of “it's mostly useful for cheaters”. |
| 19:40 |
erle |
ROllerozxa if you find something that you think the minetest engine could need, tell! maybe i can convince cora to make a PR :P |
| 20:22 |
MisterE[m] |
toggling rendering options (especially client shadow settings! and other graphics related settings) would be amazing |
| 20:25 |
erle |
well, it is mostly used for a) avoiding laggy rendering b) fullbright & brightnight shenanigans c) xray hax d) tracers |
| 20:26 |
erle |
not sure how it is implemented though |
| 20:26 |
erle |
i may remember something wrong, so better check it out yourself! |
| 20:27 |
erle |
what i find especially funny is that CSMs can in fact identify entities or nodes by texture and act upon them like that |
| 20:27 |
erle |
wanna have a tracer to everything that uses a specific texture? i guess it's possible |
| 21:24 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> erle: that is the reason why anyone has not forked the engine who is dissatisfied: they do not have enough manpower to make the situation any better in a fork. |
| 21:33 |
erle |
MisterE i believe that is actually mostly because it isn't *that* bad. it is just slow. if minetest would, for example, increase hardware requirements to the point it no longer runs on my machine or those of my friends, i would probably not be the only one wanting to maintain a client to make it work. |
| 21:34 |
erle |
doing that just to get “proper” handling of integer overflows though? no chance anyone puts in time |
| 21:34 |
erle |
better just wait until it is fixed in minetest proper, or scare debian to fix it for you ;) |
| 21:36 |
erle |
rubenwardy since the CVEs made debian (and other distributions probably) patch holes in old minetests for free, do you have any opinion on me writing a bunch of notes about crashes fixed in 5.5? |
| 21:37 |
erle |
i believe there is great value in letting distributions mantain old versions (as in: someone else does the work, yay), they only need a justification and patches. |
| 21:50 |
sfan5 |
will distributions also take our bug reports? |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
because I can assure you I *will* be upset when I waste an hour tracking down a reported bug that only exists in Debian's patched version but none of our git revisions |
| 21:56 |
sfan5 |
though most often than not I do not look at bugs that do not reproduce in the latest version anyway |
| 22:33 |
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| 22:33 |
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| 22:56 |
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| 23:16 |
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