| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:23 |
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| 02:01 |
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| 02:20 |
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| 02:22 |
cheapie |
erlehmann: Could be worse, could be "merging 1 minute ago" |
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| 09:19 |
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| 09:53 |
sfan5 |
announcing merges here is not actually required |
| 09:53 |
sfan5 |
also no I am not up at 3am |
| 10:29 |
proller |
so https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11910 can be merged right now without announce? |
| 10:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> I don't think so, no |
| 10:35 |
erlehmann |
i am only a troublemaker with an opinion, but maybe, just maybe, you could have some regular (weekly?) merge meeting or so? |
| 10:36 |
erlehmann |
proller have you read the “what we think we reserve” paper on _t suffix and stuff? |
| 10:45 |
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| 13:08 |
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| 13:17 |
proller |
erlehmann, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11843#issuecomment-987653974 |
| 13:19 |
erlehmann |
proller yes but have you read the paper |
| 14:20 |
proller |
erlehmann, how reading will help merge process? |
| 14:49 |
erlehmann |
that's not a yes. so i guess it is a no. |
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| 16:49 |
sfan5 |
pushing http://sprunge.us/K0qsTm?diff soon |
| 16:58 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 are you expecting the assert to be dead code eliminated? i wonder |
| 16:58 |
erlehmann |
i mean it is useful for future programmers |
| 16:59 |
sfan5 |
I don't, is that relevant? |
| 17:00 |
erlehmann |
just to figure out your intention. like, is this a hint for programmers or a safeguard for runtime errors. |
| 17:01 |
erlehmann |
if you do not expect it to be eliminated ig you suspect a case in which the assertion can fail exists |
| 17:01 |
erlehmann |
correct? |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 17:02 |
sfan5 |
it's for programmers and static analyzers to make clear that we didn't forget to check layer->texture != NULL at the bottom when such a check exists at the top |
| 17:02 |
erlehmann |
i see. but then dead code elimination should take care of it unless i am missing how that works. |
| 17:03 |
erlehmann |
thanks! |
| 17:29 |
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| 19:08 |
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| 20:52 |
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| 20:52 |
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| 20:52 |
Sokomine |
short question: how can i increase the amount of the cached chat messages that are displayed? |
| 20:54 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/f2d1295fe646105f1b98b0c204f47f781336e211/src/chat.cpp#L727-L729 this looks like it |
| 20:56 |
Sokomine |
sfan5: thank you for the quick help! i was looking at the wrong places |
| 20:58 |
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| 20:59 |
erlehmann |
Sokomine, can you make it a setting maybe? |
| 21:00 |
Sokomine |
erlehmann: hmm. that would be a very good idea. i might not be the only one wishing that. i also had people asking for logging chat. sadly my solution is anything but elegant, and even though it's just one line, it might be even more difficult for general users to add |
| 21:01 |
erlehmann |
logging chat sounds like a CSM issue tbh |
| 21:01 |
Sokomine |
no, not really. there are servers that forbid csms. so it can't be done that way |
| 21:04 |
erlehmann |
can't really forbid that lol |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
the csms are forbidden for other reasons than logging chat. forbidding chat mods that have local effects only and don't i.e. allow to cheat by looking where valuable ores are is a side effect |
| 21:06 |
erlehmann |
Sokomine can you show me such a sernver? haven't seen one so far. default CSM restictions seem to disallow a lot of stuff though. |
| 21:06 |
erlehmann |
such a server i mean |
| 21:06 |
Sokomine |
it might be very helpful for other players to have a larger chat buffer, chat logging and perhaps even timestamps. while it now (still compiling) may work for me, my solution isn't good enough. i fear my skills at cpp/c are too low to do it really well |
| 21:07 |
erlehmann |
hmm, how about what if |
| 21:07 |
Sokomine |
erlehmann: e.g. your land |
| 21:07 |
erlehmann |
chat would be just appended to another file |
| 21:07 |
Sokomine |
exactly |
| 21:07 |
Sokomine |
right now i simply log it to debug because that was most convenient and because i always have to manually merge it into newer versions |
| 21:07 |
erlehmann |
make a PR, if it is any good, it will improve |
| 21:08 |
Sokomine |
sadly it's not good yet. the pr would be a request to write it much better i'm afraid |
| 21:08 |
erlehmann |
yes but the requests might contain detailed advice |
| 21:09 |
Sokomine |
ah! ok. sounds like a plan |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
:) |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
i see code reviews as knowledge transfers |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
also timestamps are important |
| 21:10 |
Sokomine |
hm. perhaps such an (as such) small task may help there, yes |
| 21:11 |
Sokomine |
right now, it's a single line: actionstream << "[Chat] " << wide_to_utf8(chatMessage->message) << std::endl; |
| 21:11 |
Sokomine |
that at the right place does the job, and post-processing can happen through shell tools. as you can see...lots of work needed |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I believe chat logging should definitely be handled by logs. |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> s/logs/mods |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> out of privacy concerns alone and chat channels / PMs which are implemented by mods |
| 21:14 |
Sokomine |
can't be done if mods are forbidden server-side and then not loaded at all. of course people might patch their client to ignore that, but...that really ought not to be the goal |
| 21:15 |
Sokomine |
we can disregard privacy issues. sadly nobody cares about them. you're even writing from the discord bridge, and servers often use such gateways. so...privacy, nope, i would care, but hardly anybody else cares. besides, it *is* for a private log anyway |
| 21:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hehe, the discord bridge definitely weakens my point |
| 21:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> but for public communications, I don't expect privacy anyways |
| 21:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (I do consider it reasonable to log public chat) |
| 21:26 |
erlehmann |
logging should not be on by *default* |
| 21:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Still, this shouldn't be hardcoded and forced upon admins. Mods can do this just as well with more fine-grained control than a bunch of crappy settings. |
| 21:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Also note that storing such logs may be problematic for GDPR compliance or the like |
| 21:27 |
Sokomine |
sure, mods *could* do that. if they were loaded. are they now? if client-side modes are forbidden? |
| 21:29 |
erlehmann |
forbidding clientside mods to log chats should not be allowed for servers :( |
| 21:30 |
Sokomine |
i agree, erlehmann. needs more fine-grain there |
| 21:30 |
Sokomine |
or, rather: a server forbidding all should be ignored in that part. not sure if that's more work to implement than just adding logging |
| 21:31 |
erlehmann |
i mean there is other stuff that a server has absolutely no business interfering with |
| 21:31 |
erlehmann |
like the rumble and mumble CSMs |
| 21:31 |
Sokomine |
what does that do? |
| 21:32 |
Sokomine |
really need to catch up with the forum again |
| 21:32 |
erlehmann |
the mumble CSM gives 3d positioning data to mumble, a voice chat client, so other players can sound like they are in the game |
| 21:33 |
Sokomine |
perhaps i can at least add a setting for the chat cache size where sfan5 pointed me to. will test now. if it works fine a pr for a setting may be doable |
| 21:33 |
erlehmann |
the rumble CSM makes your hardware vibrate if you get damaged. do you have a gamepad? we still need testing. |
| 21:37 |
Sokomine |
ah, sorry, no. sounds intresting, but is both something i can't help with testing. my second speaker broke, and i didn't bother to buy a new one. sometimes a bit irritating when sound has a direction when turning around next to water. most of the time i have sound off. and no gamepad in sight... |
| 21:38 |
Sokomine |
you're right: both those things are things that affect local playing only, and there's no point in forbidding such csms |
| 21:41 |
erlehmann |
i actually think that minetest should go the extra mile and just deliver a bunch of tried and tested CSMs with the engine |
| 21:41 |
erlehmann |
the ones where even the most scared admin understands that they are not useful for cheating |
| 21:42 |
erlehmann |
and rumble, mumble and chat logging are kinda such things |
| 21:44 |
Sokomine |
such mods ought to be loaded regardless of server settings |
| 21:45 |
Sokomine |
most servers just want to forbid cheating (finding ores too easily) or scripted building or the like |
| 21:51 |
erlehmann |
i think server admins who think that all CSMS are cheating are not only misinformed about CSMs, they are misinformed about minetest |
| 21:51 |
erlehmann |
Sokomine what do you think of the idea of having a taint flag in lua, like WOW client scripting? |
| 21:51 |
erlehmann |
basically, specific actions are only allowed without taint |
| 21:52 |
erlehmann |
and you acquire taint by other actions |
| 21:54 |
Sokomine |
erlehmann: i have no idea what wow clients do. what would trigger such a flag? |
| 21:59 |
erlehmann |
Sokomine https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=407658#p407658 |
| 21:59 |
erlehmann |
How WoW did Lua taint: https://www.lua.org/wshop08/lua-whitehead.pdf |
| 22:11 |
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