| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:41 |
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| 04:00 |
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| 07:08 |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:30 |
nerzhul |
question, is the next version a breaking version or not ? |
| 08:30 |
nerzhul |
regarding irrlicht i mean it was intended |
| 08:30 |
nerzhul |
i was thinking about again good entities with less performance usage server side |
| 08:31 |
nerzhul |
ie. having good mobs, less low level packets sent through AOMessages |
| 08:32 |
nerzhul |
i mean AOM ENTITY_MOVETO or a thing like this which involve pathfinder on client side to have accurate movements, instead of manually sending all the movement things from server :) |
| 08:32 |
nerzhul |
and it's not a replacement, it's a refinement which can help many entites to use less server, and reduce lua code which requires low level actions |
| 08:35 |
sfan5 |
there are no breaking changes done or planned |
| 08:36 |
sfan5 |
maybe I should work on experimantal SSCSM, because ultimately client-side programmable mob movement prediction is better |
| 08:50 |
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| 08:55 |
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| 09:38 |
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| 09:39 |
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| 09:42 |
AntumDeluge |
Is this the right place for modding questions, or should that go in #minetest? |
| 09:50 |
sfan5 |
latter |
| 09:50 |
AntumDeluge |
Thanks sfan5. I will ask there. |
| 10:43 |
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| 11:43 |
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| 12:41 |
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| 12:47 |
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| 13:02 |
nerzhul |
sfan5 you don't need SSCSM for mob predicution if the server says, move to x,y,z with speed x |
| 13:03 |
nerzhul |
we can directly call the server & client path finder, and regularly send the move_to order fro mthe server with the current server position to fix laggy clients |
| 13:03 |
nerzhul |
in multiple online games it's how it's done, the path find is both sides |
| 13:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> sfan5 mind uh allowing us to enable entities client side entirely for things like visual effects |
| 13:20 |
sfan5 |
sure you don't need SSCSM but it's more flexible and at the same time covers the client-side pathfinding usecase |
| 13:20 |
sfan5 |
also is the pathfinder even deterministic? you'd run into problems doing this if not |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:39 |
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| 13:59 |
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| 14:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i mean "entities" |
| 14:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> as in client side models that work similar but more like HUD/formspec |
| 14:51 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:57 |
nerzhul |
Jordash, entiters won't never be fully client side, server always has something to calculate to verify context :) |
| 14:58 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, i think it is, if we use the same algorithm on both sides, or very close, the errors margin will be low |
| 14:59 |
nerzhul |
also if there is some tiny changesi n the decision, the regular packet sending should fix the original position and setup the new path finding |
| 14:59 |
rubenwardy |
entirely client-side entities would be useful for some visual effects. It wouldn't be network synced |
| 14:59 |
nerzhul |
also i'm not sure we need a breaking for this, only protocol breakage, because old versions cannot understand this new way to move, and backward compat will just generate hell code on server side |
| 15:00 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy: you mean which example ? just to see if there is no side effect :) |
| 15:00 |
rubenwardy |
\o/ |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
no specifics, I can see it being useful |
| 15:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> simple example, client side entity in front of the eyes to prevent seeing, currently you can do this with hud, but can be bypassed by turning hud off |
| 15:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> prevent seeing/limit vision |
| 15:04 |
rubenwardy |
well, you could use it for selection boxes but that could also be a per-player entity rather than a client-side one |
| 15:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> another example is if you want tracers only for the person that shot |
| 15:05 |
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| 15:38 |
sfan5 |
nerzhul: if it doesn't replace the regular position updates, what advantage would it have? |
| 15:38 |
nerzhul |
you say to an entity: go there |
| 15:39 |
nerzhul |
you don't say: move with acceleration, turn , move , (jump maybe too possible, who know), etc |
| 15:39 |
nerzhul |
and path finder does the job |
| 15:39 |
nerzhul |
it's like this in majority of the MMORPG/MOBA nowadays |
| 15:40 |
nerzhul |
you don't let the server send you all mini orders, else on big map with huge number of players you just let your server exponentially ddie :D |
| 15:40 |
nerzhul |
the regular current position sending is just to ensure server & client agree about where is the mob for next pathfinder calculation on both sides |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:40 |
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| 16:51 |
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| 17:07 |
Pexin |
re clientside entities: fireworks mod was bogging down my group's server to the point chat took 20 literal minutes to get through |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:10 |
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| 18:36 |
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| 18:50 |
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| 19:13 |
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| 19:44 |
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| 19:44 |
lhofhansl |
Any comments on this design/patch/mod: https://github.com/EvidenceBKidscode/ffiopt ? Perhaps we can aim integrating that into MT proper. |
| 19:45 |
lhofhansl |
( I guess us LuaJit only, so likely not) |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Why not? |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> If LuaJIT is available, such a patch seems reasonable |
| 19:48 |
lhofhansl |
Fair enough actually. |
| 19:50 |
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| 19:50 |
sfan5 |
IIRC pgimeno showed a similar patch recently |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
though actually, they're not that similar except for using FFI |
| 19:52 |
pgimeno |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22377&p=346105 |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
is replacing a table with a dummy table + metatable actually faster? I can see it saving memory but not so much performance |
| 19:52 |
pgimeno |
I wrote mine trying to tighten the security a bit, but it's not really secure anyway |
| 19:53 |
pgimeno |
sfan5: the trick is that the access is to FFI structures |
| 19:54 |
sfan5 |
and that can be faster than accessing a lua table? |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> well you save the Lua table generation |
| 20:02 |
pgimeno |
indeed |
| 20:02 |
pgimeno |
especially when LuaJIT compiles, because it flattens function calls, so the metamethod call gets eliminated |
| 20:07 |
pgimeno |
anyway, it's just a hack, and a faster method would be to give direct access to the structures as in #6863 |
| 20:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6863 -- Add LuaJIT FFI-friendly memory-intensive functions |
| 20:08 |
pgimeno |
(now https://notabug.org/pgimeno/minetest/pulls/2 ) |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:29 |
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| 21:22 |
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