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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2020-12-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:26 Fixer_ joined #minetest-dev
04:34 jingkaimori joined #minetest-dev
05:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest-dev
05:07 absurb joined #minetest-dev
07:44 nerzhul personnaly i suggest that we stay we 1.8.4 and we rebase if they release at a point
07:46 nerzhul it's less risky
08:00 ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev
08:39 calcul0n__ joined #minetest-dev
08:50 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
10:15 nerzhul i will try to take the irrlicht basis to modify it to use SDL in a strong way, i really think since ages we need a fork for our need
10:38 olliy joined #minetest-dev
10:41 NetherEran joined #minetest-dev
11:07 Beton joined #minetest-dev
11:13 Zughy joined #minetest-dev
11:13 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
11:14 Zughy Matrix bridge looks dead. Nice. By the way: I can't find any license for MT textures (base/pack). Can I drop a CC BY-SA 4.0 while adding a few textures of mine?
11:16 Zughy I also saw that on MTG the author is specified, so I ws planning to add a README.md inside the `base` folder, even if I have no idea about whom made the other textures
11:16 Zughy (with "dropping" I mean to simply link it inside the markdown file)
11:21 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/LICENSE.txt
11:22 Krock CC BY-SA 3.0 unless specified
11:23 Zughy why is it everything a .txt in this project, aaaa
11:23 Zughy ty btw
11:23 Krock !next
11:23 ShadowBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
11:31 celeron55 we're oldskool like that
11:31 sfan5 honest question: what do you expect instead? a wiki article?
11:33 Krock fancy dancy markdown with marquee text
11:38 Zughy sfan5, markdown, as it's properly rendered by GitHub
11:39 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
12:00 rubenwardy (and all the editors I use)
13:38 lisac joined #minetest-dev
14:16 jomat joined #minetest-dev
15:03 zughy[m] thoughts about #10740 ?
15:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10740 -- [Code Style] Increase line length limit
15:18 Krock yes, screens are bigger nowadays but 80-90 is still a good rule to keep things in bounds
15:19 Krock less nitpicking on single lines would be okay but in general I'd prefer to keep the limits where it's appropriate
16:30 rubenwardy 80/90 is quite short, especially with 8 space indentation
16:47 calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev
16:48 Krock tabs
16:52 rubenwardy We use 8 space indentation for tabs
16:52 rubenwardy It's dumb
16:52 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/.clang-format#L2
16:53 celeron55 from what i personally use these days, i'd say 4 space tabs and about 95 characters per line
16:54 celeron55 and a hard limit of infinite for lines that need it for some proper reason
16:55 celeron55 i guess i'll go comment there
16:57 MTDiscord <L‚Äčone_Wolf> Sounds good ūüĎć
17:15 absurb joined #minetest-dev
18:12 GreenXenith joined #minetest-dev
18:31 pgimeno tabs are 8 spaces by definition, that's not dumb. Why not switch to indenting with spaces?
18:32 nerzhul i don't like indent with spaces, heavy files, many possible problems
18:32 celeron55 because tabs have meaning, spaces don't
18:33 pgimeno "Tabs are 8 characters, and thus indentations are also 8 characters. There are heretic movements that try to make indentations 4 (or even 2!) characters deep, and that is akin to trying to define the value of PI to be 3." - https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.10/process/coding-style.html
18:33 celeron55 lol
18:33 celeron55 ^ quote me on that
18:35 celeron55 in my opinion tab should look like the smallest amount of spaces that still makes indentation very clearly visible
18:35 celeron55 4 is pretty good for that purpose
18:35 celeron55 3 can make you a bit lost sometimes in some stupid code, but is enough
18:35 celeron55 4 is enough*
18:35 Krock 4 is a sane value
18:36 pgimeno and 4 look awful in diffs
18:36 pgimeno terminals and browsers render them as 8 spaces by default, and it's not easy to change that
18:38 pgimeno I can't think of a reason why tabs have meaning where spaces don't. If tabs mean something, they mean "move to the next multiple of 8 column", but then spaces mean "move to the next column".
18:40 celeron55 tabs mean "this line is indented by N levels"
18:40 pgimeno no, tab != indent, horizontal space = indent
18:40 celeron55 well you can decide that way also if you want and it gives you some different benefits
18:41 celeron55 i can understand that
18:41 celeron55 but there's no single truth
18:41 pgimeno I got sick of tabs when I worked on a project with a mix of tabs of different sizes, and spaces. It soon became unreadable.
18:41 celeron55 if you have lots of hardcoded tables for example a tab width of 8 makes sense
18:42 celeron55 the kernel probably does
18:43 celeron55 because it then allows you to format tables with tabs
18:47 celeron55 but when tabs are primarily used for indentation, they won't contain any text inside them and can be made shorter
18:47 celeron55 of course it's kind of stupid, i think it might make sense for many kinds of tabs to exist
18:47 celeron55 currently you have to choose what your tabs should be like and used for
18:48 celeron55 because you can have only one type of tab
18:54 pgimeno some people have suggested "tabs for indent, spaces for alignment" but even that has its pitfalls. OpenMiner was with that, and you had to be very attentive to not enter a tab where you shouldn't. With spaces, everyone sees the same text.
18:55 celeron55 it's the pitfall, yes
18:55 celeron55 most coders learn to manage it easily
18:55 celeron55 and don't even need to think about it
18:56 pgimeno that's not the only pitfall
18:56 celeron55 altough i don't like using spaces for alignment, i usually don't align things
18:59 fluxflux_ joined #minetest-dev
19:02 pgimeno http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/text_with_tabs_for_indent_and_alignment.c
19:02 pgimeno http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/text_with_tabs_for_indent_spaces_for_alignment.c
19:03 pgimeno http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/text_with_spaces_for_indent_and_alignment.c
19:03 pgimeno which of these won't break when you change the tab size to something other than 8?
19:12 rubenwardy I use an auto formater and don't worry about alignment
19:13 rubenwardy I consistently indent continuation with two tabs instead
19:26 MTDiscord <j‚Äčosiah_wi> I do still view code in a terminal, or on a mobile device.
19:28 MTDiscord <L‚Äčone_Wolf> I set all my code viewers to view tabs with a width of 4
19:28 MTDiscord <j‚Äčosiah_wi> I think consistency is more important than the specific line length, but I have never found it difficult to keep a strict line length of 80. And even then I rarely have to break lines.
19:29 MTDiscord <a‚Äčppguru> TBH I'm not a fan of breaking expressions across multiple lines
19:29 MTDiscord <L‚Äčone_Wolf> I hate the limit of 80 because I keep getting lines ~85 chars long or so
19:29 MTDiscord <a‚Äčppguru> IMO, anything < 160 is fine
19:30 MTDiscord <j‚Äčosiah_wi> If tte line is over 100 characters I'd question the readability of the code even if it fits on my screen.
19:30 MTDiscord <L‚Äčone_Wolf> 95 should work as long as you don't end up with heavily (nested?) code
19:31 MTDiscord <L‚Äčone_Wolf> I tend to soft limit all of my code around that
19:33 MTDiscord <j‚Äčosiah_wi> The comment suggests changing the limit for future code,and X don't think the limit itselfis the real issue here. Is it wiso to have to seperate standards in the code? The code I've seen is already a mess when viewed with the style rules in mind, and having multiple indentation or line length styles isn't going to improve the confusion.
19:34 MTDiscord <j‚Äčosiah_wi> I'm sorry for the bad spelling, I can't read what I'm typing on this screen.
19:45 AntumDeluge joined #minetest-dev
22:13 Wuzzy joined #minetest-dev
22:13 Wuzzy #10693
22:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10693 -- Builtin translate (2nd attempt) by Wuzzy2

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