| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
hecks |
this is what 800 dist looks like https://a.uguu.se/uBOwidHVHUGt_8002.png |
| 00:03 |
hecks |
it's arguably cheaper to render than a health bar :^) |
| 00:04 |
hecks |
Some interesting stats: |
| 00:05 |
hecks |
a map of valid CIDs to 8 bit colors would be 256k in size |
| 00:05 |
hecks |
a rough heightmap of an entire world would only be 16 MB |
| 00:06 |
hecks |
a full mapblock is 32 kB if I recall correctly; the first LOD would bring that to 8 kB without lowering the resolution, and a really far one is under 1 kB |
| 00:07 |
sofar |
mv hecks heck-yeah |
| 00:07 |
hecks |
the definition and position of a deco imposter can be packed into 16 bits |
| 00:08 |
hecks |
an XYZ proxy for manmade objects at 16x16x16 is about 768 bytes |
| 00:08 |
hecks |
if you allowed, say, a minute of warmup time on server start to pre-generate some useful data, you could do some *crazy* things LOD wise |
| 00:09 |
hecks |
and also get yourself some information about the world that is currently impossible to sample without exploring the world, causing a chicken and egg problem |
| 00:11 |
hecks |
imagine if dungeons generated in actually reasonable places, and if your lua mapgen could do the same with towns and other interesting things |
| 00:17 |
paramat |
'heightmap': does that suggest a method that assumes a conventional terrain? i feel that LOD should be generalised for any possible world-structure |
| 00:18 |
paramat |
for example mgfractal can create insane world-spanning megastructures |
| 00:22 |
hecks |
anything involving height and ocean level is just a heuristic for conventional mapgens, so yes |
| 00:22 |
hecks |
but you could have an alternative that just keeps generating things at lower and lower resolutions |
| 00:23 |
hecks |
and I suppose you'd use that as a fallback for things like floatlands, or caverns |
| 00:23 |
hecks |
nevertheless, most of the time you *are* playing a world with regular terrain |
| 00:24 |
hecks |
so it makes sense to support that |
| 00:25 |
hecks |
it could be the mapgen's responsibility to say "use terrain trickery for mapblocks between -64 and 512, generate the rest normally" |
| 00:25 |
hecks |
on a completely unrelated note, I'd love to have the ability to switch mapgens depending on height |
| 00:26 |
hecks |
that way I could borrow v7's floatlands for carpathian *and* generate a megastructure starting at -6000 |
| 00:27 |
paramat |
yes that kind of generalised alternative is essential |
| 00:28 |
paramat |
we have discussed stacked mapgen a lot, to use the vertical space |
| 00:29 |
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| 00:39 |
hecks |
then the best option is to allow the specification of such "spaces" for LOD purposes |
| 00:47 |
paramat |
personally, i would only implement a completely general method, even if slower for normal terrain. simpler and 'purer'. but that's just me |
| 01:10 |
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| 01:13 |
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| 01:13 |
hecks |
https://a.uguu.se/CP6iprSlLLgT_chart.png |
| 01:14 |
hecks |
the problem is that huge mapblock-sized blocks may look significantly worse for terrain, that's one |
| 01:14 |
hecks |
and two, approximating land and water with them would suck |
| 01:15 |
hecks |
and in addition, fake sloped terrain with "proxies" lets you see structures from a lot farther than if it all were just huge blocks |
| 01:19 |
Cornelia |
This LOD.. would be like perfect for my crazy weather idea which would place actual nodes for clouds.. :p |
| 01:25 |
hecks |
if there was a clouds API that would let me specify the noise, that would be good enough for me |
| 01:27 |
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| 01:29 |
Ruslan1 |
Hello anyone |
| 01:30 |
hecks |
hello world |
| 01:31 |
Cornelia |
Oh hecks |
| 01:32 |
hecks |
what is it |
| 01:35 |
hecks |
playing with obscenely high draw distances made me realize just how bad the culling is |
| 01:37 |
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| 01:37 |
paramat |
hmmm, if the generalised method would look that bad then it's not good enough. the generalised approach is the higher priority. especially since LOD becomes extremely useful for viewing non-standard megastructures |
| 01:37 |
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| 01:39 |
paramat |
that's what i like about c55's farmap method, it's generalised. also it treats all nodes the same, terrain, builds, decos |
| 01:39 |
hecks |
the generalized method does not look bad if the distance is right |
| 01:39 |
hecks |
the problem is that it's less efficient |
| 01:40 |
hecks |
heightmap and proxy can do the same thing with a fraction of the data |
| 01:42 |
hecks |
the matter of the fact is that you *can* make lots of assumptions about certain mapblocks, which probably constitute the majority of all blocks every generated by MT |
| 01:43 |
hecks |
so why not use said assumptions to take a shortcut? |
| 01:44 |
hecks |
it's possible to seamlessly merge the two approaches as well |
| 01:45 |
hecks |
another thing; in mapgens like carpathian, large scale structures can not be as nicely represented by uniform blocks |
| 01:47 |
paramat |
ok |
| 01:49 |
paramat |
"Keep the common base (the Minetest Engine) as universal as possible. I like to compare everything that goes into the engine for how well it suits a gravitation-less space game without ground surface. If everything is either disableable or suitable for such, then it gives much more freedom for people to experiment and create interesting things, even in ground-based worlds." |
| 01:49 |
hecks |
I guess 16x16 might be a good enough resolution for super far LODs even at realistic scales, but slopes are still more efficient to render at that point |
| 01:49 |
hecks |
and slopes can be used "earlier" if you know that I mean |
| 01:49 |
paramat |
from the MT roadmap http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 the section about universality |
| 01:50 |
hecks |
counterpoint: MT can barely handle non-Y rotations |
| 01:50 |
hecks |
and it would be difficult to do anything "spacey" in it due to the nature of nodes themselves; they constrain you to the 6 directions they face |
| 01:51 |
paramat |
yeah i know :) |
| 01:51 |
hecks |
all in all, if domains were implemented, you could just turn them off |
| 01:52 |
hecks |
and last time I checked, most mapgens do fit the model |
| 01:54 |
paramat |
mgfractal doesn't if you use custom parameters, which is the whole idea of it |
| 01:57 |
paramat |
here's the 'roadmap continued', for your interest https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9177 |
| 02:16 |
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| 17:03 |
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| 17:04 |
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| 17:08 |
Krock |
Will merge #7753 in an hour unless there are objections. |
| 17:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7753 -- Fix temporary path crash in TestAuthDatabase by SmallJoker |
| 17:25 |
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| 18:11 |
Krock |
mergign |
| 18:59 |
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