| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:05 |
|
turtleman joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:17 |
|
Foz joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:50 |
|
AndroBuilder joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:20 |
|
Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:17 |
|
Darcidride_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:17 |
|
Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:18 |
|
Darcidride joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:03 |
|
thatgraemeguy joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:19 |
|
ssieb joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:16 |
|
Fritigern joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:22 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:38 |
|
rubenwardy left #minetest-dev |
| 11:39 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:41 |
|
Raven262 joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:26 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:29 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:48 |
|
lisac joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:52 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:07 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:19 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:29 |
paramat |
game#2047 |
| 13:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2047 -- Ores: Remove overlapping regions. Make some regions deeper by paramat |
| 13:40 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:48 |
|
Beton joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:50 |
|
celeron55 joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:56 |
|
Raven262 joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:57 |
|
lisac joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:25 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
#7064 #7065 are trivial will merge in 30 mins |
| 14:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7064 -- Settingtypes.txt: Fix valleys dungeon ymax error by paramat |
| 14:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7065 -- Find nodes in area (under air): Raise volume limit to 4,096,000 by paramat |
| 14:56 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:07 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:31 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:51 |
paramat |
now merging those 2 |
| 15:59 |
paramat |
merged |
| 17:10 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:17 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:28 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:30 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:08 |
paramat |
Krock and MTG devs game#2047 is updated and ready |
| 18:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2047 -- Ores: Remove overlapping regions. Make some regions deeper by paramat |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
concept is fine. will test |
| 18:12 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:23 |
|
Darcidride_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:42 |
Krock |
paramat, increasing the chance for the ores to be generated in exchange for no overlaps works quite good. but it also removes a bit variety of different ore "sizes" |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
the amount of the ores seems to be about the same as before for each depth |
| 18:43 |
paramat |
yes and yes, calculated very carefully to not change ore amount in the lower region |
| 18:44 |
paramat |
no other ores have overlapping regions |
| 18:44 |
Shara |
To me it seems like one minor plus, one minor negative |
| 18:45 |
paramat |
with the amount of ores we now have i don't think it's a loss |
| 18:45 |
Shara |
I'm a tiny bit against it, because I do like the current variety, and it does make a difference when playing |
| 18:45 |
Shara |
But not strongly against it |
| 18:46 |
paramat |
it's partly for consistency, also for simplicity and performance |
| 18:46 |
Shara |
How big a performance difference does it really make? |
| 18:46 |
paramat |
small |
| 18:47 |
Shara |
I'm just struggling with that as a justification because I can't imagine it being enough to matter |
| 18:47 |
paramat |
maybe enough to allow adding a new ore sometime |
| 18:47 |
Shara |
There's no use for the current ones |
| 18:47 |
Shara |
not enough uses* |
| 18:48 |
paramat |
hm well, as i often argue, small performance gains add up to the lightweight MT we have now, so small is still significant |
| 18:48 |
paramat |
yeah i'm not suggesting adding a new one, needs a lot of justification |
| 18:49 |
Shara |
Underground needs different stone types, decorations and so on, to stop it being a repetitive land of bordom :) |
| 18:50 |
Shara |
And I don't see that happening soon, which is why I don't really like removing that minute bit of variation from... well, anything |
| 18:52 |
paramat |
more underground variation will happen, probably before 0.5 |
| 18:52 |
Shara |
Well, sofar seems to be suggesting that needs an engine change |
| 18:53 |
paramat |
oh the underground biome shape thing, don't worry about that |
| 18:54 |
Shara |
And if we want weirdly shaped wobbley-edged underground biome blobs, we do so... |
| 18:54 |
sofar |
it would be a mapgen variation |
| 18:54 |
Shara |
Just need someone to figure out what approach we do want |
| 18:54 |
sofar |
I wouldn't make it biome based, though |
| 18:54 |
Shara |
Idealy they wouldn't function like surface biomes at all |
| 18:54 |
sofar |
climate and structural geology bear no relationship |
| 18:55 |
Shara |
Of course not, but it's also about what's feasible. |
| 18:55 |
paramat |
underground biomes have the shape of biomes, biomes have y limits plus a new vertical biome blend. the shape of underground biomes depends on what we do with biome y limits |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
underground projection of surface climate biomes is ridiculous imho |
| 18:55 |
Shara |
I am assuming the blending on y limit can be utilised somewhat here |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
from a geological perspective, at least |
| 18:55 |
|
RobbieF joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:56 |
sofar |
it makes sense in MC, where max depth = 64 nodes |
| 18:56 |
sofar |
but it makes no sense in Minetest |
| 18:56 |
Shara |
sofar: how much attention have you paid to... let's say v7 mapgen? |
| 18:56 |
Shara |
:D |
| 18:56 |
Shara |
I think we lost geological realism long ago |
| 18:56 |
sofar |
not too late to fix it |
| 18:56 |
sofar |
I don't want realism per se |
| 18:57 |
sofar |
I'd make a lua mapgen if I wanted realism |
| 18:57 |
sofar |
it would just be nice if the underground could use 3d noises for variation |
| 18:57 |
sofar |
nothing complex |
| 18:57 |
Shara |
I'd love the ability to do this the way you are thinking, but also to set... not sure how best to describe. Some specific underground biomes that would be locked to match surface ones |
| 18:57 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:57 |
Shara |
But that would mainly be for ideas I have for non-MTG things |
| 18:57 |
sofar |
the wouldn't be biomes |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
just make underground rock organized to some 3d noise and put ores in specific stone types |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
that would already suffice |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
it can be really simple |
| 18:58 |
Shara |
Yes, but then you lose the ability to set actual "biomes" underground completely? |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
or just adjust chances for each ore so they are rare in one type of base rock, and more abundant in another |
| 18:59 |
Shara |
areas of different base rock would be my current main aim to be honest |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
effectively you'd make geological biomes? it just wouldn't use the biome system |
| 18:59 |
Shara |
Then link decoration to rock type |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
that's all I'm saying |
| 18:59 |
paramat |
3d noise is complex, and very intensive, more than 1 is not practical |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
well, try it first, then decide based on the performance data |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
it could be entirely reasonable for new hardware in the future |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
or acceptable to people who can affoard a relatively new pc |
| 19:00 |
paramat |
i know how intensive 3d noise is |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
dismissing something based on projected performance characteristics is always premature |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
maybe one day we'll have opensimplex and it will be much faster |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
we know you're terrified of breaking people's 2005 CPUs |
| 19:01 |
Shara |
My ideal would be that we get a mix of stone types unless something specific is set for some particular depth (example: fire caverns deep beneath a volcano biome) |
| 19:01 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:01 |
paramat |
we have to think about low power devices and being lightweight in MTG. other games can do the intensive stuff |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
make it a new mapgen |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
problem solved |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
your concern is noted. stop roadblocking it. |
| 19:02 |
Shara |
New mapgen doesn't really solve the actual issue. :) |
| 19:02 |
Shara |
Being more underground content for MTG... as in the game itself, not some specific mapgen |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
enjoy your flat underground rock layers? |
| 19:02 |
paramat |
as i said, i know how intensive 3d noise is, you can't say it's gueswork |
| 19:02 |
|
sofar left #minetest-dev |
| 19:03 |
Shara |
Technically we already have flat underground layers.. just only one. |
| 19:03 |
paramat |
MTG has to run in every mapgen, it can't be a new mapgen |
| 19:03 |
Shara |
Surface does have different stone types |
| 19:03 |
Shara |
Then they just stop |
| 19:04 |
paramat |
however .. |
| 19:06 |
paramat |
using biomes for underground stone is preferable as biomes allow definable stone types, and biomes can dictate ores and decorations |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
In all honesty... Are players going to care more about "oh no, this is geologically inaccurate!" or about "wow, we have actual variation now!" |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
? |
| 19:07 |
paramat |
however we could add a 2d noise to vary all the y limits to avoid flat tops and bases. it's something i've been thinking about |
| 19:08 |
Shara |
I'd love to get both right, but if he just parts the channel after being so negative, without offering to help... |
| 19:08 |
paramat |
so possibly we can use biomes but with some added feature |
| 19:08 |
Shara |
Yes, that's why I kept on about good blending on y for so long |
| 19:09 |
Shara |
I do wonder how many extra biome registration would be needed though if you want lot sof depth variation |
| 19:11 |
paramat |
also, such a 2d noise biome y limit variation would be useful for surface biomes too |
| 19:13 |
Shara |
No doubt some will disagree with me, but I very much feel underground content is one of th ebiggest failings of MTG |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
(hm, and i'm not roadblocking anything, just having suitable concern about the performance of an idealistic noise-heavy underground) |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 19:14 |
Shara |
I don't know how we can even keep "mine" in the name of the game given how little reason there is to do it |
| 19:14 |
Shara |
everything worth seeing is on the surface |
| 19:15 |
paramat |
we have a 'stratum' ore type that can create noise-varied strata as you know, i coded it. problem is it needs a 1 or 2 2D noises for every strata, and underground there could be very many |
| 19:16 |
Shara |
Maybe first thing is to work out how many |
| 19:16 |
paramat |
then there is the problem of the stone volumes themselves being essentially 'ores', and placing ores in ores. so using the biome system is preferable, it' s designed for placing different stone types |
| 19:17 |
Shara |
The onlt time sudden cut offs on y will be visible really is in caves |
| 19:17 |
Shara |
only* |
| 19:17 |
Shara |
So IF the y blending is good enough, it might be a non-issue |
| 19:18 |
paramat |
actually i need to test if vertical blend workd underground, i hope so |
| 19:18 |
Shara |
It's actually one of the things I had in mind when we first talked about it :) |
| 19:19 |
paramat |
however, horizontal borders wouldn't bother me, with everything else being crazy 3d underground horizontal lines could actually be a nice balance |
| 19:20 |
Shara |
Hmm, not so sure there |
| 19:20 |
Shara |
It looked terrible when CRL started splitting biomes on mapblock edges |
| 19:21 |
Shara |
(not that they were really biomes... but you get the meaning) |
| 19:23 |
paramat |
yes, hopefully we can somehow avoid straightness in some simple lightweight way |
| 19:24 |
Shara |
Straight edges in general are bad :) |
| 19:28 |
paramat |
testing now |
| 19:30 |
|
ssieb joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:32 |
paramat |
nah doesn't work underground |
| 19:32 |
Shara |
Ugh |
| 19:33 |
Shara |
Any easy way to make it work underground? :) |
| 19:33 |
paramat |
however the dithered type of blend probably wouldn't look right, a clean edge is better |
| 19:33 |
paramat |
not sure |
| 19:33 |
paramat |
i think i'd prefer to add a 2d noise to vary the border |
| 19:33 |
Shara |
It could be better |
| 19:34 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:34 |
paramat |
so will think on what can be done for underground biomes |
| 19:36 |
Shara |
Okay. If you want to talk through ideas or need help with any testing, let me know |
| 19:37 |
paramat |
certainly |
| 19:38 |
paramat |
i'll try the 2d noise thing |
| 19:40 |
Shara |
:) |
| 19:40 |
paramat |
anyone know where the background RGBA for main menu tabs is set? |
| 19:41 |
Shara |
Heh, was just reading issue and wondering that myself |
| 19:41 |
Shara |
With all the little changes I made there, you'd think I'd know |
| 19:42 |
p_gimeno |
isn't it where it says to bug sfan5 to add more colours or something like that? |
| 19:45 |
paramat |
ok i know why vertical blend doesn't work underground, and it's difficult and intensive to enable. however, it would be unsuitable for stone borders anyway, will think about something new for that |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, irrlicht |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
you'll need to change the skin in GUIFormspecMenu |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
unless we're using our own tabs implementation |
| 19:53 |
paramat |
ok looking, i did look at that file but could have missed it |
| 20:08 |
|
Beton joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:11 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-dev |
| 21:04 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:44 |
|
antims joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:02 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:15 |
|
Hijiri joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:23 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:29 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:35 |
|
TMcSquared joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:19 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
