| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:20 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:41 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:19 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:08 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:20 |
|
turtleman joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:45 |
|
QwertyCool joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:46 |
QwertyCool |
hey all |
| 04:46 |
QwertyCool |
going to try and fix this, but have a question or two |
| 04:46 |
QwertyCool |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6977 |
| 04:47 |
QwertyCool |
I can see a couple ways to approach the problem: efit the error message to be more broad(probably not ideal) ie cant place IGNORE// unknown blocks) |
| 04:48 |
QwertyCool |
or modify the map section to not set unknown blocks to "ignore_content and instead make it its own type |
| 04:48 |
QwertyCool |
but still disable it from being placed |
| 04:50 |
QwertyCool |
im concerned that if i change the object type to a new type it might cause errors elsewhere, not familiar enough with the code but since its not getting placed it shouldn't really interect elsewhere |
| 04:57 |
|
Darcidride__ joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:53 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:48 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:40 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:15 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:49 |
|
Sockbat joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:56 |
|
Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:09 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:17 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:23 |
|
Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:33 |
|
Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:05 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:33 |
|
RobbieF joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:33 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-dev |
| 13:38 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:09 |
ThomasMonroe |
#6957 |
| 14:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6957 -- Add a refresh button to the serverlist by ThomasMonroe314 |
| 14:32 |
|
antims joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:05 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:13 |
Megaf |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6048#issuecomment-310934029 |
| 15:13 |
Megaf |
sfan5: There's no need for all that space in the search box |
| 15:14 |
Megaf |
is not that the buttons takes much space, search box does |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
why are you highlighting me to just to tell me that you have a differing opinion |
| 15:16 |
Megaf |
Because is better than commeting on a closed PR on Github? |
| 15:27 |
ThomasMonroe |
I think #6957 is done. |
| 15:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6957 -- Add a refresh button to the serverlist by ThomasMonroe314 |
| 15:38 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:04 |
Megaf |
#6957 looks good to me. Even with the icon isntead of text |
| 16:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6957 -- Add a refresh button to the serverlist by ThomasMonroe314 |
| 17:04 |
Megaf |
wow, we have been growing a lot recentely. So many new faces reporting bus on GitHub |
| 17:05 |
Megaf |
quite nice. Though it may prove to be a challenge to take care of all that |
| 17:06 |
Megaf |
by the way, just merge this already https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1929 |
| 17:06 |
Megaf |
"Carts: Correct visuals of going up/down" |
| 17:08 |
Krock |
triggered |
| 17:09 |
Krock |
Megaf, it's already outdated and needs more changes from the boost_cart repo |
| 17:09 |
Megaf |
make that your top priority then :P |
| 17:10 |
Krock |
adding.... echo "do game 1929" >/dev/null |
| 17:16 |
|
QwertyCool joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:16 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:16 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:45 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:47 |
|
Darcidride joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:10 |
|
Darcidride joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:26 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:34 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:32 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:36 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
merging #6948 and #6989 in a few minutes |
| 20:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6948 -- Add Android drivers to the video_driver drop-down menu by Wayward1 |
| 20:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6989 -- Fix liquid bottom by numberZero |
| 20:09 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, nice |
| 20:09 |
|
Karazhan joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:11 |
|
Karazhan joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:12 |
sfan5 |
fucking github |
| 20:12 |
sfan5 |
i did not want to rebase this |
| 20:13 |
sfan5 |
(force pushing to squash last 3 commits) |
| 20:13 |
|
Karazhan joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:14 |
|
Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:45 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:55 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:12 |
|
Karazhan joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:14 |
|
Karazhan joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:30 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:52 |
|
RobbieF joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:52 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-dev |
| 22:21 |
red-001 |
anyone have time to review #6982? |
| 22:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6982 -- Make settings files per-world. by red-001 |
| 22:30 |
sofar |
=^o |
| 22:43 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:04 |
Fixer |
i've read yesterday conversation, the problem is minetest too beaurocratic, introvert, and accepting of PRs/ideas depends on "hive" mood of that day (that boiles down to p-r-mat, because he is often the only active member) |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
other problem is very few active members |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
core ones i mean |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
you need a lot of patience to develope for minetest |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
it is also quite conservative project it seems |
| 23:10 |
Fixer |
despite that engine has progressed a lot and seems very stable to me |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
and game is evolving ridiculously slow (don't know why very few contributors to it compared to engine) |
| 23:12 |
Fixer |
it is not like it is bad game, it is slow evolution of it |
| 23:12 |
Fixer |
just my impressions |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
in a way i feel minetest development is opposing of DCSS development (another project), that is more anarchic and open in nature |
| 23:14 |
Fixer |
here is good article on that anarchic approach https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/23/making-dungeon-crawl-stone-soup-with-253-cooks-and-no-head-chef/ |
| 23:15 |
paramat |
no, accepting of PRs depends on dev approvals, accepting of ideas depends on multiple dev opinions. random opinons on ideas might be me if i'm the only one active |
| 23:17 |
paramat |
it's not particularly beaurocratic, we have rules for good reason. not introvert, everything is open and public |
| 23:17 |
red-001 |
minetest game only really has one active core dev, so no surprise it's slow |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
well, 2 now :) |
| 23:18 |
red-001 |
ThomasMonroe, reviewed your in-game menu thing PR |
| 23:19 |
Fixer |
"In NetHack they have this model where if somebody [on the team] objects to something, it will not happen. So every person can veto every change. And in the end you could see that NetHack was dead, much less from having no releases – even when they had a few releases the changes that would appear were miniscule." |
| 23:19 |
Fixer |
“I try very hard to always shift in the direction of more changes. Because if you try something and it doesn’t work – and this happens from time to time – you can revert. But if you don’t even try, you are stuck. We have to try radical things.†|
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto |
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
seems like that never ends well |
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
be it for countries or for games |
| 23:21 |
sfan5 |
the wikipedia article describes a veto rule, we have no such thing |
| 23:22 |
paramat |
we only need 2 dev approvals for a merge, that's the absolute minimum you can have without people acting on there own, so we add stuff as easily as is possible |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
sfan5, refering to what Fixer was talking about |
| 23:22 |
paramat |
*their |
| 23:22 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 23:22 |
Fixer |
i rarely see those article about open source development process, i find it very interesting |
| 23:23 |
Fixer |
articles* |
| 23:26 |
Fixer |
minetest is more complex though |
| 23:27 |
Fixer |
0.5.0 is perfect time to experiment |
| 23:28 |
Fixer |
so don't wait, or you will be stuck with some changes you wanted during breaking compat |
| 23:30 |
Fixer |
sofar: curious why you want bigger maps for minetest, I had opposite impression of people reducing/cutting map sizes, limiting mapgens, etc, typical server owner can't afford large maps |
| 23:30 |
sofar |
those voices are vocal |
| 23:30 |
sofar |
most people don't care |
| 23:30 |
Fixer |
65x65x65km is not enough? |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
there are better ways to limit map sizes |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
you won't hear people come in and ask us if we can use more space |
| 23:31 |
Fixer |
sofar: what is worrying me is not 65x65, but 65km of wasted height |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
such as not saving chunks which have not been modified |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
sure, there's a risk to that, though |
| 23:31 |
Fixer |
i think freeminer already has that |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
maybe an age timestamp on a chunk would help |
| 23:31 |
Fixer |
can be ported |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
e.g. generated but untouched for N seconds |
| 23:32 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy, agreed |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
so you could drop and regenerate those chunks later again without penalty |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
and not constantly generate/delete/generate/delete the same chunks |
| 23:32 |
Fixer |
but then tons of server owners will yell - it increased our server load, it lags! |
| 23:33 |
sofar |
there are plenty of people interested in larger maps |
| 23:33 |
sofar |
I just recently imported an MC map that didn't even fit |
| 23:33 |
sofar |
lost a few km |
| 23:33 |
rubenwardy |
you could always not automatically delete |
| 23:34 |
Fixer |
what we need is nicer seeds for server, server owner refuse to use new fancy stuff and choose boring seeds |
| 23:34 |
sofar |
I had to physically "move" it 15+km to get it to import |
| 23:34 |
red-001 |
I think want we need is easy to configure vertical limits |
| 23:34 |
rubenwardy |
but offer ./minetest --delete-unmodified or similar |
| 23:34 |
red-001 |
no-one needs 32 km of empty air |
| 23:34 |
rubenwardy |
or chat command |
| 23:34 |
sofar |
what we need is a less restrictive environment |
| 23:34 |
sofar |
then all the other things come free |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
a flight sim needs more than 32km of air |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
kerbaltest |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
etc. |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
stop thinking small :) |
| 23:35 |
Fixer |
if someone can make large maps, i'm totally fine with this, i'm very sure server owners will impose limits, don't forget those autoexploring bots |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
absolutely |
| 23:36 |
sofar |
this isn't "you must use this" |
| 23:36 |
red-001 |
what happened to that PR to detect noclip and fly? |
| 23:36 |
sofar |
this is a "use it if you want" feature |
| 23:37 |
Fixer |
map size limit should be considered by server owner depending on their hard-drive space, amount of backups, etc, it is already possible to limit it, large maps does not cause trouble, unless admin missed limit part |
| 23:37 |
Fixer |
red-001: there is server-side movement PR, that should solve this iirc |
| 23:38 |
sofar |
maybe a server owner wants to offer a large but shallow static pre-generated map |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
you can't fly/noclip, if it is calculated server side |
| 23:38 |
sofar |
so size may not be any issue at all |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
may not |
| 23:38 |
sofar |
it shouldn't be up to us to decide "it'll get too big", essentially |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
it boils down to "who will code it" |
| 23:39 |
Fixer |
red-001: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6219 |
| 23:39 |
sofar |
it's not difficult, just tedious and nanometer type work |
| 23:39 |
red-001 |
s/s16/s32 |
| 23:43 |
Shara |
I'm all for bigger maps. My issue is how map saving is handled. |
| 23:44 |
Shara |
I'd love to be able to let my players walk on forever. But if they don't change the environment, then everything they generate being saved is a complete waste of space. |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
yeah |
| 23:44 |
Shara |
And once you are handling 25GB map sizes, it ain't fun. |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
pfff |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
25gb is nothing |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
minecraft oldest maps go into terabytes now |
| 23:45 |
Shara |
Fixer: If I had funding to run servers, sure. |
| 23:45 |
red-001 |
depends on how many backups you have |
| 23:46 |
Shara |
Back ups can be sent elsewhere easily enough. |
| 23:46 |
Shara |
But even that part starts being not much fun if you don't hav ea good download speed |
| 23:47 |
Fixer |
also, is not rollback was meant to be a backup? it is just too damn slow |
| 23:47 |
|
BakerPrime joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:48 |
Shara |
I have never had half the trouble with rollback that many seem to get, but maybe that's because I don't expect it to be a miracle-working cure-all |
| 23:48 |
Fixer |
iirc vanessa had |
| 23:49 |
Shara |
But really, as someone who is keen on having good and felxible methods of limiting maps - that's only because they are so wasteful in how they are saved, and not because I want small maps. |
| 23:49 |
Shara |
flexible* |
| 23:51 |
VanessaE |
for me rollback is slow and creates dozens-of-GB log files, because it can't filter-out technic automata. |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
(doing a rollback check was usually fine, it was doing the actual rollback that was slow - and memory-hungry. |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
) |
| 23:52 |
Shara |
I don't allow technic on my servers, which is likely why I don't have issues. |
| 23:54 |
VanessaE |
my players would string me up if I got rid of technic :P |
| 23:54 |
Shara |
Once you add it... stuck with it :P |
| 23:55 |
sofar |
just simulate a large EMP happened and all technic ceased to function |
| 23:55 |
VanessaE |
hah! |
| 23:55 |
Shara |
:D |
| 23:56 |
ThomasMonroe |
lol |
| 23:56 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: i'm not sure why it is multigigabyte, say griefer griefs some half-griefed dirt house, you rollback that players actions, how it ends up with multigigabyte memory eating disaster? |
| 23:57 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: because it records every. single. place. action. |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
including every player doing stuff, and in particular, the actions of the hundreds of technic automata that run 24/7. |
| 23:59 |
VanessaE |
I think something was added to the modding API to resolve that but technic et al. don't use it |
| 23:59 |
VanessaE |
(0.5.x-only I think) |
