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Hijiri |
Is 0.5 going to clean out all the code for legacy protocol support |
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nerzhul |
Hello, i'm pushing a 3 loops conversion to C++11 range based for loop in ~ 5 mins |
| 07:53 |
nerzhul |
7 loops sorry :) |
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| 09:32 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: it's always funny to open an open source codebase with a JetBrains IDE |
| 09:32 |
Calinou |
the number of mistakes it finds, sometimes… |
| 09:33 |
rubenwardy |
My biggest project is a c++ game of 9500 lines |
| 09:34 |
rubenwardy |
There are a lot of warnings, most of them are about nullptr |
| 09:34 |
rubenwardy |
(calinou) |
| 09:34 |
rubenwardy |
Do you know if it's possible to alias `null` to `nullptr` |
| 09:35 |
rubenwardy |
I'll try a preprocessor |
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Calinou |
I don't know |
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rubenwardy |
My suggestions for tomorrow's meeting:https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/cd5e5528ec60c80270a85b9252b215a2 |
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rubenwardy |
o/ |
| 18:22 |
rubenwardy |
oops, wrong channel |
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Noxarivis[m] |
Whats my irc Nick? |
| 18:51 |
shalmezad |
"[14:47] <Noxarivis[m]> Whats my irc Nick?" |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
Noxarivis[m], -> #minetest |
| 19:19 |
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| 19:20 |
Wuzzy |
Hi folks. Slippery nodes are waiting to be reviewed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6237 |
| 19:20 |
Wuzzy |
Again |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
Wuzzy: thanks for rebasing, did anything change code wise? |
| 19:35 |
Wuzzy |
of course after 2 years ... xD |
| 19:36 |
Wuzzy |
it was not a rebase, i simply took the original code of Zeg9 and tried it to re-integrate it to current code base |
| 19:37 |
sofar |
I suppose it needs some testing |
| 19:37 |
sofar |
Fixer may be up for that :) |
| 19:37 |
Wuzzy |
Yes |
| 19:37 |
Wuzzy |
I did only the "happy case" testing |
| 19:37 |
sofar |
can you link a patch to e.g. minetest_game to make the ice block slippery? |
| 19:38 |
sofar |
I suppose it's easy enough to manually do this of course |
| 19:38 |
Wuzzy |
you can read my mind |
| 19:38 |
sofar |
that would probably be a horrible experience |
| 19:38 |
sofar |
:) |
| 19:39 |
Wuzzy |
i heard some people want slippery to be more flexible. currently its binary |
| 19:39 |
Wuzzy |
i.e. either slippery or not slippery at all |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
this PR only works for players and item entities but ignores everything else |
| 19:41 |
rubenwardy |
Wuzzy, as long as the API is approximately forwards compatible, it's fine to start with partially features imo |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
so e.g. mobs are on their own |
| 19:41 |
sofar |
that's probably fine, since most mobs are non-phyisical anyway |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
i also think having binary slipperyness is a good start |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
and i wouldn't consider it an "incomplete" feature. |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
more like "improvable"/"extendable" |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
that's what I meant. It reaches a MVP |
| 19:45 |
sofar |
hmmm, I don't see any effect yet |
| 19:46 |
sofar |
I didn't misspell it either |
| 19:46 |
sofar |
and inspector shows it |
| 19:47 |
sofar |
Wuzzy: is it really subtle? |
| 19:48 |
Wuzzy |
not really |
| 19:48 |
Wuzzy |
use short taps |
| 19:49 |
sofar |
I can't see a difference, somehow |
| 19:49 |
Wuzzy |
you should slide 0.5 - 1.0 node lenghts |
| 19:50 |
Wuzzy |
when u stop at full walking speed |
| 19:50 |
sofar |
nope |
| 19:50 |
Wuzzy |
wtf?! |
| 19:51 |
sofar |
"slippery = 1" is in groups |
| 19:51 |
Wuzzy |
u sure you pulled and applied the commit? |
| 19:51 |
Wuzzy |
otherwise i have no explanation |
| 19:51 |
sofar |
ah, that would be the problem |
| 19:51 |
Wuzzy |
lol |
| 19:54 |
sofar |
ok, looks good in game now |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
dammit, wrong account again |
| 19:57 |
sofar |
I need to ban my second account from minetest |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
Wuzzy |
:-) |
| 20:04 |
Wuzzy |
oh. did someone remove param1 from debug screen? :-( whyyyy |
| 20:04 |
sofar |
inspector mod shows it |
| 20:05 |
Wuzzy |
pfffffffffffff |
| 20:05 |
Wuzzy |
also texture name is gone |
| 20:05 |
sfan5 |
was that part of paramats changes? |
| 20:05 |
sfan5 |
or are those not merged yet? |
| 20:05 |
Wuzzy |
i see debug screen has now 3 lines |
| 20:05 |
sofar |
I just noticed that too |
| 20:05 |
Wuzzy |
so "saving space" is definitely not an excuse now |
| 20:05 |
sofar |
well the param1 thing |
| 20:06 |
Wuzzy |
it would be useful to know, so why hide it? |
| 20:06 |
sofar |
I don't care much, most of my debugging I use the inspector mod for that anyway |
| 20:06 |
Wuzzy |
meh. |
| 20:06 |
Wuzzy |
well i want a solid core i dont want to be forced to use a mod for everything |
| 20:07 |
Wuzzy |
and debug screen is pretty essential, i think |
| 20:07 |
Wuzzy |
i have added param1 to debug screen btw |
| 20:07 |
sofar |
I'd argue that in-game builtin debug stuff shouldn't reveal too much data that may actually be valuable to players |
| 20:07 |
Wuzzy |
param1 is only light afaik |
| 20:07 |
Wuzzy |
and i agree with you for coords and yaw |
| 20:08 |
sofar |
yup |
| 20:08 |
Krock |
huh? how does one need param1/2 and the texture name in the debug info? it can be done with a Lua item if needed |
| 20:08 |
Wuzzy |
i have posted a different issue on this |
| 20:08 |
Wuzzy |
omg plz dont force us to use mods for everything :( |
| 20:08 |
Krock |
ong plz dont force us to implement all into C++ :( |
| 20:08 |
sofar |
well if it's not a mod it's really hard to hide it from players |
| 20:08 |
Wuzzy |
i think MT should provide a solid core |
| 20:09 |
Wuzzy |
param1/param2 is very usefu and important for mod development |
| 20:09 |
sofar |
I would think the entire debug screen could go to a mod |
| 20:09 |
sofar |
but I am known to have alterior motives that include annoying wuzzy :) |
| 20:09 |
Wuzzy |
Krock: debug screen in c++ is not really an issue |
| 20:09 |
Wuzzy |
also, stop the C++ hate! xD |
| 20:09 |
Krock |
you can't get param1/2 from a not pointable node either |
| 20:10 |
Krock |
(using the debug info) |
| 20:10 |
Wuzzy |
and thats the reason to ban param1 but not param2? nonsense! |
| 20:10 |
Krock |
ban *@*.* |
| 20:11 |
sofar |
hah |
| 20:11 |
Wuzzy |
i think minetest in recent development is too much relying on mods. the engine keeps is becoming weaker and weaker |
| 20:12 |
Wuzzy |
also i dont get why anyone wants debug screen in a mod. was that a joke? |
| 20:12 |
sofar |
nope |
| 20:13 |
Wuzzy |
i dont get it. |
| 20:13 |
sofar |
the reason is that I use it heavily myself for development but I don't expect end users to see or be bothered by it |
| 20:13 |
Wuzzy |
i agree debug screen should not be exposed to the normal player. it includes coords and yaw which is bd |
| 20:13 |
Wuzzy |
but mods are not the solution for this problem i think |
| 20:13 |
Wuzzy |
maybe just disable all things debugging when built in RELEASE mode |
| 20:14 |
Wuzzy |
and only enable debug bling-bling when built in DEBUG mode |
| 20:14 |
Wuzzy |
my point is, mods are not the solution to everything |
| 20:14 |
Wuzzy |
soon you will suggest to implement rendering routine in mods. XD |
| 20:15 |
Shara |
Would simply by nice if server owners could decide what is shown to players out of the current debug info. |
| 20:15 |
Wuzzy |
I think you are missing the point |
| 20:15 |
sofar |
that's a logical fallacy right there |
| 20:15 |
Wuzzy |
well partially it is possible with the debug priv. currently wireframe on/off |
| 20:16 |
Wuzzy |
sofar: no it was a silly exaggeration :P |
| 20:16 |
Krock |
So we currently have on our imaginary TODO list: all debug information about a node, which depends on NDEBUG, the server settings and finally the own settings to format the whole thing |
| 20:16 |
Krock |
what you are demanding is overengineering |
| 20:16 |
sofar |
mods are not the solution to everything |
| 20:16 |
sofar |
you could at least argue to have the debug screen require a permission |
| 20:17 |
sofar |
but you didn't do that |
| 20:17 |
Wuzzy |
it already does?! at least partially |
| 20:17 |
Wuzzy |
debug priv |
| 20:17 |
Wuzzy |
i dont think a priv is the answer |
| 20:17 |
Wuzzy |
the answer would be to separate player info from debug info completely |
| 20:17 |
Krock |
*shrug* add another minetest.conf setting |
| 20:17 |
sofar |
that doesn't solve much |
| 20:17 |
Wuzzy |
??? |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:18 |
sofar |
I'd rather see most settings die a horrible death |
| 20:18 |
Krock |
xD |
| 20:18 |
Wuzzy |
what about ripping out debug screen from release builds? |
| 20:18 |
Wuzzy |
if mods want to expose coords and yaw (like orienteering), they can use HUD API |
| 20:18 |
Krock |
players will ask about their coordinates |
| 20:18 |
Shara |
On an average server, it's compeltely fine for players to get coords and direction and so on (I'd see good to have even), but if you want to start adding in items for those things, the debug info can spoil everything. |
| 20:18 |
celeron55_ |
it seems to me that the problem is that some people think the debug mode is a gameplay thing and use it as such, and some people think it's a developer tool |
| 20:19 |
sofar |
have a default hud for coords? |
| 20:19 |
Shara |
Some kind of setting to control it would fix that easily. |
| 20:19 |
Wuzzy |
sofar: yaaaaay |
| 20:19 |
celeron55_ |
i think it is a developer tool and shouldn't be used by players, and i think developers shouldn't have to use a mod to see that information |
| 20:19 |
Shara |
Don't take it out of debug completely please. |
| 20:19 |
Wuzzy |
celeron55_: yaaaaay |
| 20:19 |
sofar |
if you solve the coords problem, maybe the debug screen problem isn't so debatable |
| 20:19 |
Krock |
and it covers both, celeron55_. Very useful for gameplay but also contains information that players don't care about |
| 20:20 |
Wuzzy |
well maybe add another key "show coordinates" and require players to "unlock" it like minimap? *shrug* |
| 20:20 |
celeron55_ |
MT is full of stuff that isn't really meant for players but players use because ther wasn't anything else to use |
| 20:20 |
Wuzzy |
that way we would also solve the lag problem |
| 20:20 |
celeron55_ |
+e |
| 20:20 |
VanessaE |
definitely do NOT lose the coordinates. lots of players use that! |
| 20:20 |
VanessaE |
(good for placing street lights) |
| 20:21 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: It depends on the type of subgame |
| 20:21 |
sofar |
geesh too much chat in this channel, I better hide again |
| 20:21 |
Shara |
Only servers that have a specific reason should really be removing that debug info for players (at least in my opinion) |
| 20:21 |
* sofar |
goes to get an espresso |
| 20:21 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: irrelevant :P |
| 20:21 |
Wuzzy |
celeron55_: well the thing is, just pressing F5 and spoiling gameplay is TEMPTING |
| 20:22 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: no. just add a server-side way to allow or deny players to see coords and stuff. like we do for minimap already |
| 20:22 |
celeron55_ |
some games (like this ffxiv that i'm playing now) show coordinates by default to everyone, whenever the minimap is on screen which is always by default |
| 20:22 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: a privilege is good enough for that. |
| 20:22 |
Wuzzy |
and maybe allow it by default. happy now? |
| 20:22 |
celeron55_ |
it's not necessarily a huge bad thing |
| 20:22 |
Wuzzy |
or a HUD flag. like minimap not sure |
| 20:22 |
celeron55_ |
it really depends on the subgame, in MT |
| 20:23 |
Wuzzy |
and mods |
| 20:23 |
Wuzzy |
current debug screen completely defeats the purpose of my orienteering mod |
| 20:23 |
Wuzzy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15247 |
| 20:23 |
Shara |
It would simply be nice to have an option to remove it. Default with coordinates and direction showing is fine. |
| 20:23 |
Wuzzy |
with this mod you have to *earn* seeing your coords, yaw, minimap, etc. many players like it |
| 20:23 |
Wuzzy |
you can still press F5 of course but then its considered cheating |
| 20:24 |
Shara |
Wuzzy: Yup. I was working on somethign similar way back, before finding your mod.. but had already realised it was pointless as things are. |
| 20:24 |
celeron55_ |
it should be noted that the more features the servers get to decide, the more tempting it is for someone to publish easily usable cheats for the features |
| 20:24 |
Wuzzy |
this doesnt mean we should not even try |
| 20:24 |
celeron55_ |
coordinates is a thing that can't be hidden from a modified client and can't be detected |
| 20:25 |
celeron55_ |
not necessarily |
| 20:25 |
Wuzzy |
ah. |
| 20:25 |
celeron55_ |
but it's a concern |
| 20:25 |
Wuzzy |
of course |
| 20:25 |
Wuzzy |
well it can be tempting for singleplayer as well |
| 20:25 |
Shara |
celeron55_: I actually originally wanted this for a server that includes mazes. You are meant to lose track of which direction you are going. |
| 20:25 |
Wuzzy |
i think cheats should not be accesible with a single key press, even in singleplayer. there should be more effort ;) |
| 20:25 |
Shara |
Also the ability to point at a node to check what it is was a problem there... because they could easily which nodes were actually traps. |
| 20:26 |
Wuzzy |
good point |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
Hmm... was was* |
| 20:26 |
celeron55_ |
i think the debug modes could be put behind a command line flag at least |
| 20:26 |
Wuzzy |
this gives an even stronger case for ripping out debug screen from release |
| 20:26 |
Krock |
not pointless at all. Even with the debug screen, it's not good readable. Wuzzy, your mod brings it into a nice format that's easily readable for everyone (even android) |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
Disabling those things would be bad on normal servers, but there are plenty of good reasons to do it. |
| 20:27 |
Wuzzy |
then just allow it by default |
| 20:27 |
Wuzzy |
because most servers DO want "free coordinates" |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
wait, isn't there *already* a "debug" priv (for wireframe mode)? why not just use that for coords et al? |
| 20:27 |
Shara |
Yup, but let anyone who has a reason to turn it off. |
| 20:27 |
Wuzzy |
YES |
| 20:27 |
Wuzzy |
wait a moment i think i have an issue about the debug screen |
| 20:28 |
Wuzzy |
here it is: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4556 |
| 20:28 |
Wuzzy |
<WuzzyBot> Title of link is: “No selection box outline visible when pointing node behind liquid†|
| 20:28 |
Wuzzy |
;-) |
| 20:29 |
celeron55_ |
"server-disableable coordinate display for players" and "debug display for developers" should probably be separate things |
| 20:29 |
Wuzzy |
exactly |
| 20:29 |
celeron55_ |
modders also want the debug display, and they usually use release builds |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
Wuzzy, like this: #4556 |
| 20:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4556 -- Keep debugging details away from player by default |
| 20:29 |
Wuzzy |
damn. right. |
| 20:30 |
Shara |
I'm against it being off by default, but for it being possible to turn off |
| 20:30 |
Wuzzy |
well i also suggested extending the meaning of debug priv |
| 20:30 |
Wuzzy |
no debug priv = no debug screen. easy |
| 20:30 |
VanessaE |
again, my players frequently use coords as an aid for placing lampposts |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
(it's a standard on my servers to put them every 10m, on the 10's) |
| 20:31 |
Shara |
Same as VanessaE. and I don't want to need to give people access to the wireframe view so they can see the rest |
| 20:31 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: i already agreed to making it available by default |
| 20:31 |
Wuzzy |
well we could have both?! |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: but you're not the one who has to approve or decline a PR :P |
| 20:31 |
Shara |
Maybe the option if enabled could be to move everything to the priv? |
| 20:32 |
Krock |
but the debug priv isn't granted by default, thus the debug screen won't be visible for the players |
| 20:32 |
Wuzzy |
well celeron55_ suggested to make coords exposable as kind of HUD element by default which can be toggled by HUD flag or priv |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: which means yet another mod to install (or alter). |
| 20:32 |
Wuzzy |
together with debug priv disabled by default this should solve it, i guess |
| 20:32 |
Krock |
VanessaE, how about the builtin mod? :P |
| 20:32 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: not if coords are enabled by default |
| 20:33 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 20:33 |
VanessaE |
this is a bunch of noise over very little |
| 20:33 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: ok or could simply use a priv, then you could simply use server commands |
| 20:34 |
Wuzzy |
the discussion started when I complained that param1 and texture of pointed_thing disappeared in debug screen :( |
| 20:34 |
Wuzzy |
i still dont know why |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
In current stable, as a player I find almost all the current info when I press f5 useful, and I never once felt like more was needed |
| 20:35 |
Krock |
reduced usecase and missing space, I guess. |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
So to be honest, short of adding an option for a server to disable it, I see no real point changing it at all |
| 20:36 |
Wuzzy |
I am a mod developer so I think I have a more valid opinion of debug screen :P |
| 20:37 |
Wuzzy |
Krock: pointed_thing info is now in 3rd line so there is plenty of space |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
Sorry Wuzzy, I write mods too. |
| 20:38 |
Wuzzy |
and you never needed param2/param1? lol |
| 20:38 |
Wuzzy |
ok param1 is more for completeness' sake |
| 20:38 |
Shara |
I know what that's set to from the mods. |
| 20:38 |
Krock |
I never needed param1/2 |
| 20:38 |
Shara |
If the code is in front of me, why do I need it in game? |
| 20:38 |
Wuzzy |
... |
| 20:38 |
Wuzzy |
for testing of course |
| 20:39 |
Wuzzy |
for testing if i set param2 correctly, to make it easier to see the inner workings, etc. in one word: for DEBUGGING |
| 20:39 |
Wuzzy |
i find having param2 always available to be incredibly useful. |
| 20:39 |
Wuzzy |
saves a lot of restarts |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:41 |
celeron55_ |
maybe there should be a setting where you list what you want on that line |
| 20:42 |
Wuzzy |
no this is overkill |
| 20:42 |
celeron55 |
like... i guess different people doing different things need to see different things |
| 20:42 |
Noxarivis[m] |
celeron55_: hi |
| 20:42 |
Wuzzy |
line 3 literally has only 2 bits of information |
| 20:43 |
celeron55 |
i'm fine with it just being there |
| 20:43 |
Wuzzy |
celeron55: do you know why param1 and texture name was removed from debug screen? |
| 20:43 |
Wuzzy |
I added param1 btw |
| 20:43 |
celeron55 |
no, haven't followed any of that |
| 20:44 |
Shara |
Stable has two lines only... I don't want more than this |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
Noxarivis[m], for the last time, this channel is for untopic chat. Stop saying hi to random people |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
*ontopic |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
+please |
| 20:45 |
sfan5 |
maybe matrix.org should be muted here like webchat is |
| 20:46 |
Noxarivis[m] |
Sorry, i didnt know that greeting people is also forbitten |
| 20:46 |
sfan5 |
not with that attitude |
| 20:47 |
Wuzzy |
do you have anything to say about Minetest engine development? then I think you're welcome here |
| 20:47 |
Noxarivis[m] |
? |
| 20:47 |
Noxarivis[m] |
attitude? |
| 20:47 |
Wuzzy |
I think you're in the wrong channel. Go to #minetest, please. :-) |
| 20:50 |
Noxarivis[m] |
> do you have anything to say about Minetest engine development? then I think you're welcome here |
| 20:50 |
Noxarivis[m] |
Not right now, i just saw the big ones name and wanted to say hi, |
| 20:50 |
Noxarivis[m] |
Id like to know under what attitude its allowed to greed people |
| 20:51 |
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| 20:51 |
sfan5 |
just don't use this channel for any non-coredev purpose (that includes greeting people) |
| 20:51 |
sofar |
we've had too many people in here just saying "hi" recently |
| 20:51 |
sofar |
and everyone is available to greet in #minetest already |
| 20:52 |
Noxarivis[m] |
sofar: ok understood |
| 20:52 |
sofar |
!tell paramat let me know if you want me to review some specific mtg prs, I'll try and make some time to go through them again and work on the backlog |
| 20:52 |
ShadowBot |
sofar: O.K. |
| 20:53 |
Wuzzy |
I just reproduced a bug in -dev which was believed to be fixed: #5330 |
| 20:53 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5330 -- Touching a wall while falling, sometimes gets fall damage without landing on it, in version 0.4.15 |
| 20:53 |
Noxarivis[m] |
sofar: but mintest_game related developement is allowed too right? |
| 20:56 |
Krock |
^ yes, but it's usually much less than about the core |
| 20:57 |
Noxarivis[m] |
Krock: ok thx |
| 20:57 |
Krock |
these discussions were also moved to -hub when it involves many parties |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
-hub is an excellent place for mod and subgame discussions |
| 20:59 |
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| 20:59 |
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| 21:01 |
Wuzzy |
sadly its locked |
| 21:02 |
Shara |
It's not exactly difficult to ask for voice. |
| 21:04 |
Noxarivis[m] |
Wuzzy: I think the default game should be discussed here, its fine as it is and paramat is very helpful |
| 22:28 |
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| 23:50 |
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