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| 08:06 |
est31 |
will push this fix in 30 mins: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2607b97b4f2b41767d7a010e9376d3e7f578cb71 |
| 08:11 |
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paramat |
ok |
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| 12:37 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 when you have time game#925 game#925 |
| 12:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat |
| 12:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat |
| 12:39 |
paramat |
oops game#924 |
| 12:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat |
| 12:41 |
nore |
est31 paramat ShadowNinja if you have some time, I'd like some feedback on #3861 |
| 12:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3861 -- Remove chat escape sequences from chat messages, for future colored chat. by Ekdohibs |
| 12:42 |
nore |
(I'd like to get it merged before 0.4.14, as it is fairly simple and is only for future compatibility) |
| 12:42 |
paramat |
looking |
| 12:43 |
sfan5 |
paramat: 925: maybe keep the ligher shade of the "lines" inbetween |
| 12:45 |
paramat |
looks like the colourisation darkened the mortar a little |
| 12:45 |
sfan5 |
approved game#924 |
| 12:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat |
| 12:45 |
paramat |
ok |
| 12:45 |
nore |
paramat: approved game#924 too |
| 12:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat |
| 12:45 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 12:46 |
paramat |
ok i can try brightening the texture a little |
| 12:46 |
nore |
got to go now though, will look at 925 later |
| 12:46 |
sfan5 |
no the rest is fine |
| 12:47 |
sfan5 |
just copy the lighter part from the old texture to the new one |
| 12:47 |
paramat |
ok i'll try that |
| 12:47 |
paramat |
good idea |
| 12:51 |
paramat |
game#758 ? |
| 12:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/758 -- Add sounds for steel doors. by sofar |
| 12:55 |
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| 12:56 |
est31 |
nore, looking |
| 13:03 |
est31 |
sfan5, what are minetest's "market statistics"? |
| 13:03 |
sfan5 |
how would i know |
| 13:03 |
est31 |
version distribution |
| 13:03 |
est31 |
of masterlist |
| 13:03 |
est31 |
you still run it, right? |
| 13:03 |
sfan5 |
i won't do some full stats now |
| 13:04 |
sfan5 |
but i can take a quick look at the versions now |
| 13:04 |
est31 |
ok, thats enough |
| 13:11 |
Fixer |
est31, client or server? |
| 13:11 |
est31 |
client |
| 13:11 |
est31 |
server distribution can be done by me |
| 13:11 |
est31 |
I can simply wget the list |
| 13:11 |
Fixer |
est31, rubenwardy has the stats |
| 13:11 |
Fixer |
somewhat limited but... |
| 13:11 |
est31 |
? |
| 13:11 |
est31 |
ah yeah of his server |
| 13:11 |
Fixer |
est31, http://minetest.rubenwardy.com/stats/graph_ctf_versions.png |
| 13:12 |
Fixer |
est31, http://minetest.rubenwardy.com/stats/graph_ctf_platforms.png |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
9804 0.4.10 |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
73233 0.4.11 |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
9234 0.4.12 |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
69099 0.4.13 |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
66 0.4.9 |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
4345 gUnknown |
| 13:12 |
est31 |
thanks |
| 13:13 |
sfan5 |
(last 10 days, only GET /list) |
| 13:13 |
est31 |
are there no different clients? |
| 13:13 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 13:13 |
est31 |
like mobile or so |
| 13:13 |
Fixer |
whats up with 0.4.11? |
| 13:13 |
est31 |
or are they only small number |
| 13:13 |
sfan5 |
their versions look like cgbuildahouse/1.0 or BuildCraft/2.0.1 |
| 13:14 |
sfan5 |
- - [05/Mar/2016:14:00:09 +0000] "GET /list?proto_version_min=13&proto_version_max=26 HTTP/1.1" 200 172816 "-" "Freeworld/2.0" "-" |
| 13:14 |
sfan5 |
not useful |
| 13:14 |
sfan5 |
what might be easier is parsing the proto versions |
| 13:14 |
est31 |
yup |
| 13:14 |
sfan5 |
lemme do that |
| 13:14 |
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| 13:14 |
est31 |
if you have the time |
| 13:15 |
sfan5 |
i don't do it by hand |
| 13:15 |
est31 |
but still you have to create the awk/sed/whatever command pipe |
| 13:15 |
sfan5 |
i can reuse the old one |
| 13:16 |
est31 |
lots of sort | uniq -c |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
nah |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
% tail -n 1580000 /usr/local/nginx/logs/serverlist.log | grep "GET /list" | LC_ALL=C uniq -w 16 | sed -rn 's|.*proto_version_max=([0-9]+).*|\1|p' | LC_ALL=C sort | LC_ALL=C uniq -c |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
79247 24 |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
101669 25 |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
311355 26 |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
91728 27 |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
128 28 |
| 13:16 |
est31 |
what about those who dont pass proto_version_max |
| 13:17 |
sfan5 |
ignored |
| 13:18 |
est31 |
they are interesting |
| 13:18 |
est31 |
even total number would be enough |
| 13:18 |
est31 |
wc -l |
| 13:18 |
est31 |
then i can calculate the rest |
| 13:18 |
sfan5 |
wc -l of what |
| 13:19 |
est31 |
tail -n 1580000 /usr/local/nginx/logs/serverlist.log | grep "GET /list" | LC_ALL=C uniq -w 16 | wc -l |
| 13:19 |
sfan5 |
892223 |
| 13:20 |
est31 |
thanks |
| 13:20 |
est31 |
thats alot |
| 13:20 |
sfan5 |
<that> - <sum of version distrib stuff> should be the amount of non-Minetest clients |
| 13:21 |
est31 |
older non minetest clients have sent it too |
| 13:21 |
est31 |
its a pretty recent patch |
| 13:21 |
est31 |
one of my first :) |
| 13:22 |
est31 |
308096 |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
non-mt clients? |
| 13:23 |
est31 |
ah |
| 13:23 |
est31 |
older minetest clients |
| 13:23 |
est31 |
not non minetest clients lol |
| 13:24 |
est31 |
you quoted above a request with proto_version_max |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 13:31 |
est31 |
sfan5, nore your opinion on #3854 ? |
| 13:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3854 -- Drop support for < 25 protocol servers by default |
| 13:32 |
paramat |
so what would be a reasonable guess at current number of MT users? |
| 13:32 |
est31 |
what is an mt user |
| 13:32 |
est31 |
is it sb who has downloaded one of our official binaries |
| 13:32 |
sfan5 |
est31: how many servers would that currently affect? |
| 13:32 |
est31 |
9 |
| 13:33 |
est31 |
out of 132 i think |
| 13:33 |
est31 |
there is a "study" linked in the issue |
| 13:33 |
Fixer |
9 with players or without? |
| 13:34 |
sfan5 |
ok |
| 13:34 |
sfan5 |
i think this should wait for a bit |
| 13:35 |
paramat |
ahh sb == somebody, i wondered who you keep referring too heh |
| 13:36 |
Fixer |
me too |
| 13:41 |
est31 |
one of the servers has 0.4.7, six have 0.4.12 and one runs 0.4.12-FozLand and two run 0.4.12-dev |
| 13:41 |
est31 |
while one of the two servers which have 0.4.12-dev has proto v24 and one has v25 |
| 13:41 |
est31 |
otherwise it wouldnt add up |
| 13:42 |
est31 |
cant tell the names |
| 13:42 |
est31 |
or well i can |
| 13:42 |
nore |
est31: about #3611, with it we don't need to do a protocol bump if we want to add new escape sequences |
| 13:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3611 -- Don't pass non-const references to collision methods by est31 |
| 13:43 |
est31 |
that's a point |
| 13:43 |
nore |
else, we would need to bump every time |
| 13:43 |
nore |
(oops, that was 3861) |
| 13:43 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 13:43 |
nore |
anyway, gtg again :/ |
| 13:43 |
est31 |
well, I've +1ed it |
| 13:43 |
est31 |
bye |
| 13:44 |
est31 |
nore, do you +1 it too |
| 13:44 |
est31 |
then it can go in :) |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:56 |
est31 |
the 9 legacy servers are: "LLM II (testing)", "The Sea is My Life", "AKIBA", "Mundo Medieval en Espa\u00f1ol", "CreativePlaceOriginal", "Krondor", "DTAmedia Minetest server", "B52's Hot lava serveur dedi\u00e9 FR", "Eatlama's EC2 Server" |
| 13:56 |
est31 |
dunno whether they have lots of users |
| 13:56 |
est31 |
but yeah it would probably make sense to wait a bit |
| 13:56 |
est31 |
we shouldn't ruin the day for the server owners :) |
| 13:57 |
est31 |
and if we wait a bit, perhaps the 0.4.12 people update |
| 13:57 |
est31 |
okay |
| 13:57 |
est31 |
I will update the PR |
| 13:58 |
est31 |
and make it not disable it by default |
| 13:58 |
est31 |
but enable it by default |
| 13:58 |
est31 |
then it can go in, and people who dont want to connect to those servers can simply flip the switch |
| 14:03 |
Fixer |
you can also make a topic about those servers |
| 14:10 |
Fixer |
btw, why not add contacts field in server announce? that will contain some contact info, like email |
| 14:10 |
est31 |
nah, its nice enough that they make servers |
| 14:10 |
est31 |
no need to stalk them |
| 14:11 |
Fixer |
hehe |
| 14:46 |
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| 14:50 |
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| 14:55 |
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| 15:16 |
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| 15:16 |
paramat |
sfan5 updated game#925 to have mortar unchanged |
| 15:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat |
| 15:18 |
sfan5 |
paramat: good to merge |
| 15:18 |
paramat |
ok |
| 15:20 |
paramat |
will merge games 913 922 924 925 in 20mins |
| 15:21 |
sfan5 |
when was the release date for .14 again? |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:30 |
kilbith |
i'd like game 906 to be merged right now. thanks. |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:35 |
paramat |
sfan5 freeze on roughly 20th March, but is flexible |
| 15:36 |
paramat |
hm that's soon, probably have to delay freeze a little |
| 15:36 |
kilbith |
beware if it's too flexible we'll never get a release soon |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
sfan5, what about this patch: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3855 |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
nah, we have lots of time |
| 15:36 |
paramat |
indeed |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
idk when the release deadline for ubuntu 16.10 is |
| 15:37 |
est31 |
but its still some months |
| 15:37 |
est31 |
unrelated to that, it would be cool to have a release before may :) |
| 15:38 |
kilbith |
ubuntu froze the packages months ago afaik |
| 15:38 |
paramat |
sfan5 any thoughts on game#906 ? it can probably be merged |
| 15:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/906 -- Add Flint and Flint-and-Steel (producing fire) by kilbith |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
kilbith, 16.10 not 16.04 |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
we already missed that :) |
| 15:40 |
kilbith |
ah, misread |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
by a long time |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
for a package update to go from debian testing to debian unstable, it has to be at least 4 weeks old I think |
| 15:41 |
est31 |
so if we say it takes one week for the debian packager to bother, we need 5 weeks until the ubuntu people first can consider updating their package |
| 15:41 |
kilbith |
fedora might have 0.4.14, they're more flexible |
| 15:41 |
est31 |
and then it still needs time |
| 15:41 |
kilbith |
i mean for fedora 24 |
| 15:41 |
est31 |
ok |
| 15:42 |
est31 |
at least they wont ship wayland by default |
| 15:42 |
kilbith |
yep |
| 15:42 |
est31 |
wayland is not ready at all |
| 15:42 |
paramat |
ok i'll merge game 906 too |
| 15:42 |
kilbith |
last time i checked the camera wasn't spinning anymore on moving the cursor |
| 15:42 |
kilbith |
on XWayland |
| 15:43 |
est31 |
it wasn't? |
| 15:43 |
est31 |
interesting |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:43 |
kilbith |
the behavior has changed but it's still jerk |
| 15:43 |
est31 |
i have a pretty outdated wayland version |
| 15:44 |
Samson1 |
join ##samsonsworld |
| 15:44 |
est31 |
well either it works or it does not work |
| 15:44 |
kilbith |
i'm on arch with latest version |
| 15:44 |
Samson1 |
oops! Â Sorry! |
| 15:44 |
sfan5 |
est31: 3855 reviewed |
| 15:45 |
est31 |
thanks |
| 15:45 |
sfan5 |
paramat: +1 for game906 |
| 15:46 |
paramat |
ok |
| 15:46 |
paramat |
'two approvals' can be used for 3+ approvals, no need to remove it |
| 15:47 |
sfan5 |
i expected you to merge the pull right now |
| 15:47 |
est31 |
paramat, you are native speaker |
| 15:47 |
est31 |
which way is better: "Disabling this option will better protect your password." |
| 15:48 |
paramat |
i will in a moment |
| 15:48 |
est31 |
or "Disabling this option will protect your password better" |
| 15:48 |
paramat |
hm |
| 15:49 |
paramat |
first one |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
wait what |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
isn't the word order wrong on the first one? |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
or maybe not wrong, but it seems unnatural to me |
| 15:49 |
srifqi |
will protect your password better (?) |
| 15:50 |
paramat |
well both are ok, first one is a more fancy use of english |
| 15:51 |
paramat |
even though it looks a bit weird |
| 15:52 |
paramat |
maybe '.. will protect your password more' |
| 15:53 |
paramat |
the fancy first one may be less clear to non-native speakers |
| 15:54 |
srifqi |
agreed |
| 15:55 |
paramat |
so yeah second with 'more' |
| 15:56 |
everamzah |
"Disabling this option will protector your password more betterer" |
| 15:56 |
kilbith |
lol |
| 15:56 |
VanessaE |
"better" is more appropriate than "more" here. |
| 15:57 |
est31 |
https://xkcd.com/1133/ xD |
| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 15:58 |
srifqi |
"Disabling this option will protect your password better." |
| 15:58 |
est31 |
VanessaE, better with "first" order or with second |
| 15:58 |
VanessaE |
the second way. |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
(works for the first too, but the grammar looks weird there, even if it's correct) |
| 15:59 |
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| 16:03 |
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| 16:10 |
est31 |
well idk |
| 16:10 |
est31 |
we have two people who think the second one is better, one who thinks the first is better |
| 16:10 |
est31 |
all native speakers admit that the first looks weird |
| 16:10 |
est31 |
so lets take the second |
| 16:11 |
est31 |
and merge the patch |
| 16:11 |
kilbith |
UK english != US english |
| 16:11 |
kilbith |
but in general UK one is cleaner |
| 16:11 |
kilbith |
it seems |
| 16:12 |
|
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| 16:14 |
paramat |
yeah second with better is ok |
| 16:15 |
paramat |
now merging to game |
| 16:15 |
everamzah |
oh neat i didn't know about this one: http://english.stackexchange.com/ |
| 16:18 |
est31 |
there is one for german too |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
well my opinion on flint and steel is that I really like the fake_fire mod |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
i mean, you can place fire anywhere without it affecting your building |
| 16:30 |
paramat |
merged |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
and it does not go out after some time |
| 16:31 |
everamzah |
there is basic_flame, permanent_flame and perhaps there could be a fake_flame too |
| 16:31 |
est31 |
idk perhaps one could make crafting "permanent fire flint" harder |
| 16:32 |
est31 |
also note that many servers are allergic to fire |
| 16:32 |
est31 |
they disable lava buckets bc of that |
| 16:32 |
est31 |
but well they will adapt |
| 16:32 |
everamzah |
or use something like fireguard by indriApollo, which makes privs for their usage |
| 16:33 |
est31 |
only admins can fire-grief? |
| 16:33 |
est31 |
thats cool |
| 16:34 |
est31 |
i really like that |
| 16:34 |
est31 |
you know, kids joining servers and being nice and so on if the admin is on |
| 16:34 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 game#917 would be good, added to milestone |
| 16:34 |
est31 |
trying to convince them to give them the fire priv |
| 16:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/917 -- Unlink character.png from b3d export by stujones11 |
| 16:34 |
est31 |
then when admin is offline they threaten to burn everyone |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:35 |
*Â everamzah |
wonders whether fire spreads in protected areas by default |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:37 |
est31 |
yes it does |
| 16:39 |
everamzah |
of course, yes, makes sense |
| 16:39 |
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| 16:50 |
sofar |
I'm gonna write a filter for '{ ' and call it "the paramat filter" |
| 16:51 |
paramat |
heh |
| 16:51 |
est31 |
big trouble? |
| 16:51 |
sofar |
it's just muscle memory that I'm typing "{ " |
| 16:53 |
paramat |
ok i'm pushing freeze back to 22 March (night before fullmoon), one week from now, but still flexible |
| 16:54 |
sofar |
tbh I think this release is going really well. the list of open things is definitely down to the more obscure items |
| 16:54 |
paramat |
i still want to attempt a fix for lighting bugs, will be tough |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:36 |
paramat |
#3857 back later |
| 17:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3857 -- Mgv7 large pseudorandom caves bright at chunk borders when above water level |
| 17:36 |
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| 17:37 |
Obani |
paramat, will you make a floatting islands mapgen some day ? :D |
| 17:37 |
Obani |
ok |
| 17:45 |
sofar |
Obani: he already has (floatlands) |
| 17:45 |
Obani |
sofar, core side ? |
| 17:47 |
sofar |
ah, no, that would be interesting tho |
| 17:47 |
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| 19:26 |
Fixer |
btw, protection bypass allows to open/close steel doors, but not remove them, on the other hand, i can remove owned chests (but not doors) |
| 19:28 |
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| 19:29 |
paramat |
duh wrong link, here it is #3862 |
| 19:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3862 -- Mgv7: Limit pseudorandom caves to surface mapchunk or below by paramat |
| 19:31 |
paramat |
Obani i'm now adding floatlands to this https://github.com/paramat/minetest/tree/rivergen |
| 19:34 |
paramat |
it would be easy to add floatlands to mgv7 as an option, i've already done it once as an experiment |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
I'd love floatlands if it used normal blocks.... |
| 19:36 |
paramat |
you mean standard stone and biomes? |
| 19:38 |
sofar |
right |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
sofar, incoming!11 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/929 |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
far map PR has some glorious code |
| 19:39 |
sofar |
I love our edge case testers |
| 19:39 |
sofar |
these guys would kill our QA department |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:40 |
paramat |
http://i.imgur.com/sVnvQr0.png here i was testing towers to get up there (mgv7) |
| 19:40 |
Fixer |
I have worst case scenario superbuggy Just-Test spawn copy, load up in usual minetest, horrible stutters, you can torture terrorists with it, now, load up MT with farmap PR (farmap disabled), and it is gloriously smooth |
| 19:41 |
Fixer |
i was requesting something like that for a long time, could be at least part seperated to seperate PR to include faster? |
| 19:41 |
sofar |
paramat: FYI if you set active_block_mgmt_interval to 0.2 and start flying around you'll get the smoothest map loading experience *ever* |
| 19:41 |
Obani |
paramat, those look great ! Just as I imagined the thing :o |
| 19:42 |
paramat |
http://i.imgur.com/GlmGYpV.png |
| 19:42 |
Obani |
Yeah right |
| 19:43 |
Obani |
Also would it be a mapgen by itself or an "add-on" ? |
| 19:43 |
Obani |
I would love to see a complete mapgen made of these :D |
| 19:44 |
Obani |
(is that meru mountain on the first pic ?) |
| 19:44 |
paramat |
mgv7 can already create floatlands with custom noise params, but the mountains become extreme too |
| 19:45 |
paramat |
a floatland-only mapgen is possible |
| 19:45 |
paramat |
not meru, just mgv7 terrain stretched upwards at a point |
| 19:45 |
sfan5 |
wouldn't it be easier to disable the normal terrain in mgv7? |
| 19:46 |
sofar |
can we combine a normal mgv7 noise set under ~1000 with a different set above ? |
| 19:47 |
paramat |
my experiment reuses the 3D mountain noise to create the floatlands so no additional noises needed |
| 19:50 |
Fixer |
feel the difference: https://i.imgur.com/3EdBMkg.png (default), https://i.imgur.com/bxQRWU0.png (farmap PR) |
| 19:50 |
paramat |
so an option added to mgv7 is easy and no slower. the main problem is how to get up there |
| 19:51 |
paramat |
wow much smoother |
| 19:51 |
Fixer |
paramat, hugely smoother |
| 19:51 |
paramat |
after release we should work on adding farmap |
| 19:52 |
Fixer |
paramat, it has a bug with slower map gen over time, but it is very smooth in all situations |
| 19:52 |
Fixer |
that what i was asking for long ago |
| 19:52 |
Fixer |
and it is already developed by celeron |
| 19:52 |
Fixer |
so that pain in the *** with stutters should go away |
| 19:53 |
sofar |
Fixer: try the interval settings patch as well |
| 19:55 |
Fixer |
sofar, i can try it but i doubt that it fixes that problem |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
helps make mapgen and block loading much more smooth |
| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
paramat |
anyway yes i like that ABM interval PR |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
sofar, default minetest loads blocks in crappy way making a big stutter, celerons PR somehow smooth it out |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
Fixer: that's because it's only done every 2 seconds, my patch makes it tunable |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
it'll help, try it |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
sofar, and default is 2 sec? |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
active_block_mgmt_interval |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
with my PR patch |
| 19:57 |
sofar |
set it to e.g. 0.2 |
| 19:57 |
Fixer |
sigh |
| 19:57 |
Fixer |
let me compile it |
| 19:57 |
sofar |
then scoot around flying to force mapgen/emerge |
| 19:57 |
Fixer |
sofar, noo, wait, it lags hugely just on already generated block looong ago |
| 19:58 |
Fixer |
and on mapgen |
| 19:58 |
Fixer |
and just on load |
| 20:00 |
Fixer |
anyway, celeron kinda fixed it in farmap PR, it is server + client, it will not help to play smoother on nonpatched servers |
| 20:01 |
paramat |
wooo 5500 commits |
| 20:01 |
celeron55 |
i wonder if the farmap PR should be merged with the farmap part being disabled by default |
| 20:01 |
celeron55 |
the reworked map sending code is probably worth it |
| 20:02 |
Fixer |
reworked map sending code, yes, this is a big deal |
| 20:02 |
Fixer |
i see the difference, it is huge |
| 20:02 |
Fixer |
on that j-t copy, before: hardly unplayable, after: close to excellent |
| 20:02 |
celeron55 |
i don't care about the smoothness, but it's a bit more reliable and more maintainable |
| 20:03 |
Fixer |
i care because i play it of course |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
and it reacts somewhat faster to player movement |
| 20:03 |
Fixer |
you can imagine my eyes bleed with 30 fps + stutters, that can cause headache ._. |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
that kind of stutter is horrible of course |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:04 |
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| 20:05 |
Fixer |
only problem is map chunks generate slowly over time? even with high v_range and walking forward I noticed that it starts to generate slower and closer to me, far map was disabled |
| 20:05 |
Fixer |
restart makes it fast again, smoothness is not affected |
| 20:08 |
celeron55 |
well it prioritizes mapblocks differently |
| 20:09 |
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| 20:09 |
Fixer |
but yes, it will be nice to have it merged with far_map disabled |
| 20:10 |
paramat |
merged for 0.4.14? we should consider it |
| 20:11 |
Fixer |
only problem i've encountered with farmap itself is weird mix of farmap blocks with detailed blocks (in some weird ways) and sometimes slight blink on farmap to detail (possible to smooth transition somehow?) |
| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
i don't know if this is the full explanation to that but up to certain distance it will load mapblocks behind the player, and it doesn't have this particular conditional: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/clientiface.cpp#L299 |
| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
that conditional is known to cause sea floors to never generate or be sent to clients |
| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
there's an issue about it but i don't know the id |
| 20:12 |
Fixer |
farmap blocks can be visually closer than detailed, and blink happens when farmap bl goes to detailed* / sry for bad explanation |
| 20:13 |
Fixer |
i've heared smth about that long ago |
| 20:13 |
Fixer |
someone asked about not generated ocean floor |
| 20:13 |
Fixer |
valleys mapgen got up to -63 deepness |
| 20:15 |
Fixer |
i found a downside with new sliding down chat window, it hides coordinates and i need to use brain power to memorize it in gameplay and it could be tricky if situation is hot |
| 20:15 |
paramat |
ah yes the way dark stuff is neglected |
| 20:17 |
Fixer |
paramat, i'm still spawn in some trees on close to new git btw |
| 20:17 |
paramat |
mgv5 oceans go down to -128 |
| 20:17 |
sofar |
FWIW https://youtu.be/WLO-Mn4DcOs |
| 20:17 |
paramat |
i spawn inside trees too |
| 20:17 |
paramat |
if in doubt, punch! |
| 20:18 |
Fixer |
i know |
| 20:19 |
paramat |
nice video |
| 20:20 |
sofar |
it's not even available in 1080p yet, not sure why |
| 20:21 |
paramat |
terrain is cute in low res |
| 20:21 |
sofar |
yeah, it's very nice |
| 20:23 |
Obani |
I don't understand whatt's just happening in this video |
| 20:23 |
sofar |
random seed, was lucky to get some nice diversity |
| 20:23 |
paramat |
apparently meshgen is slower than mapgen, so with farmap-only meshes it seems possible to generate world faster |
| 20:23 |
sofar |
Obani: farmap is generating terrain |
| 20:24 |
Obani |
Yes but |
| 20:24 |
Obani |
Why is it low res like that ? |
| 20:24 |
sofar |
that's what farmap does |
| 20:24 |
Fixer |
sofar, i get lua out of memory error with "far_map_generate = true" |
| 20:24 |
nrzkt |
sofar, sorry but horrible :) |
| 20:24 |
sofar |
it presents far stuff as low res blocks |
| 20:24 |
sofar |
nrzkt: hah, it's taste, I suppose |
| 20:25 |
sofar |
nrzkt: horrible far map, or horrible camera controls/video technique? |
| 20:25 |
sofar |
Fixer: I don't understand how lua is involved in farmap, afaik it isn't |
| 20:25 |
sofar |
Fixer: any mods? |
| 20:25 |
nrzkt |
graphism are horrible :) |
| 20:25 |
nrzkt |
it's just ugly :( |
| 20:26 |
Fixer |
sofar, iirc it said something about abm, maybe it generates a loooot of blocks that overload lua with those abm functions and stuff |
| 20:26 |
sofar |
hmmm, that would suggest your machine can't keep up CPU wise |
| 20:29 |
Fixer |
sofar, default mods |
| 20:29 |
Fixer |
sofar, actually i managed to get Lua OOM error after walking in default singleplayer on valleys for 8 hrs, yes, really |
| 20:30 |
sofar |
nrzkt: graphism? I don't understand |
| 20:31 |
nrzkt |
the render is just ugly, it's not regular, don't reflect an idea about world, create big volumes :( |
| 20:31 |
sofar |
ok |
| 20:31 |
Fixer |
it reflects for me perfectly fine, very close to real blocks |
| 20:32 |
paramat |
in proper use it's only meant for very distant stuff |
| 20:32 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 20:32 |
nrzkt |
paramat, very distant = ? |
| 20:33 |
sofar |
beyond visual_range |
| 20:33 |
sofar |
e.g. 150+ nodes. or whatever your range is set to |
| 20:33 |
sofar |
I like it |
| 20:33 |
nrzkt |
if you have a low machine with 100 nodes it will be just... ugly |
| 20:34 |
nrzkt |
sorry but textures doesn't reflect reality and the world is transformed and doesn't reflect reality. |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
i hate it that people make videos where they fly 10 nodes from the farmap geometry |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
it's not meant to be used in that way |
| 20:36 |
sofar |
didn't mean to ... just wanted to demonstrate how fast it can generate terrain in a new map |
| 20:36 |
celeron55 |
it's pretty close to reality in natural terrain especially with large-scale mapgens like v7 and watershed |
| 20:36 |
paramat |
http://i.imgur.com/tqyJMKN.png here it switches at 330 nodes |
| 20:36 |
celeron55 |
player-built structures is where it truly gets ugly |
| 20:36 |
sofar |
maybe I should do an exploration video where I walk a regular pace |
| 20:37 |
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| 20:37 |
celeron55 |
anyway, i know that some people absolutely hate it |
| 20:37 |
celeron55 |
that's why it's completely disableable |
| 20:37 |
nrzkt |
i don't think player building huge towers want to see those modified by farmap |
| 20:38 |
nrzkt |
farmap is a good idea, but rendering is just ugly, maybe this could be improved |
| 20:38 |
paramat |
heh |
| 20:38 |
paramat |
it has to be simple to work |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
it can't render it any better given the amount of geometry and data it has to work with |
| 20:39 |
nore |
well, it is configurable and it can be improved later anyway |
| 20:39 |
nore |
so I like it |
| 20:39 |
nrzkt |
the main problem is MT is a game, more than a simple engine. Rendering should be non agressive for eye |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
i haave tried what it does when the geometry is 1:1 to nodes; what happens is that rendering the farmap gets just as slow as rendering actual regular mapblocks |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
-a |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
maybe some 10% faster but really nothing useful |
| 20:40 |
nore |
nrzkt: disable it then |
| 20:40 |
nrzkt |
maybe add aliasing make it more smoother |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
RBA suggested blurring it |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
i'm not implementing that |
| 20:40 |
nore |
celeron55: what do you mean, 1:1 to nodes? |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
if someone does add such an option, then fine |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:41 |
Fixer |
I've played it on NYC map and it can look crude at times but it gives very nice idea about environment |
| 20:41 |
nrzkt |
nore, and if i want to see a beautiful world from a very huge distance ? i should throw it ? :p |
| 20:41 |
nore |
nrzkt: well, you can use full view range I guess |
| 20:41 |
Fixer |
celeron55, besides that two problems I've noticed another with thin(?) walls with glass: https://imgur.com/a/IOSaE |
| 20:41 |
celeron55 |
the point of farmap is that it gives environmental awarenss |
| 20:41 |
celeron55 |
awareness* |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/9q6TQxL.png |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
awareness like this |
| 20:42 |
celeron55 |
you can look at the distance in glorious 60fps and see a mountain and decide to either walk there or avoid it |
| 20:42 |
celeron55 |
without farmap, that's simply not possible, at all |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/fhL1yrb.png |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/OqkH9n8.png this one is cool |
| 20:42 |
nrzkt |
celeron55, what method is used by minecraft then ? |
| 20:43 |
celeron55 |
for someone who just wants to builds objects or tinker with mesecons, farmap gives nothing at all and they should keep it disabled |
| 20:43 |
Fixer |
nrzkt, it does not use anything iirc, just far range |
| 20:43 |
nrzkt |
Fixer, the main problem is the texture, this doesn't reflect reality, texture is repeated on a single node as i see |
| 20:43 |
celeron55 |
build* |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
i stopped running minecraft when it stopped wanting to run on my computer some years ago |
| 20:44 |
kilbith |
Q: it's /far/ map, then why is the map cubification so close ? |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
nrzkt, with vbo + superflous PR (needs few bug fixes) and celerons farmap PR you will be possible to play on LARGE v_range |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
like 100 and beyond |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
on simpler server beyond 200 |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
so will be same to minecraft far setting |
| 20:45 |
sofar |
isn't minecrafts' max 12x32? |
| 20:45 |
nrzkt |
Fixer we can already run 150 blocks and more on modern GPU, i do it since i have the VBO patch |
| 20:45 |
celeron55 |
nrzkt: dunno; i'm working with what i have and i'm kind of incompetent in modern computer graphics, plus we're using irrlicht and so on |
| 20:46 |
nrzkt |
celeron55, no problem with that for me :) |
| 20:46 |
celeron55 |
nrzkt: i.e. do it better or don't complain |
| 20:46 |
Fixer |
nrzkt, superflous shaders PR gives a very big fps boost for me, even bigger than vbo |
| 20:46 |
Fixer |
at least for me |
| 20:46 |
nrzkt |
Fixer, i didn't notice that because i already done the modification before on my client, but yes it was an improvement. VBO does much more on my GCN AMD card |
| 20:47 |
nrzkt |
~15 FPS more, i increased max range from 110 to 170 |
| 20:47 |
Fixer |
paramat, down side of merging it after release is map sending code is server side, so a lot of server will not use it :( |
| 20:47 |
nrzkt |
celeron55, i'm not very familiar with renderers :) i only said eyes are agressed by texture iregularity :p |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
nrzkt, yes, strangely i have AMD/ATI too, but vbo gives modest boost while superfl thing is a beast! other people reported a big increase with vbo on |
| 20:48 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: because minetest kind of sucks and is often unable to get the exact rendering far enough for your taste |
| 20:48 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: due to various factors |
| 20:48 |
celeron55 |
the vbo patch is already in, right? |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 20:48 |
nrzkt |
Fixer, which card do you have ? |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
hd 6870 |
| 20:49 |
nrzkt |
okay, i have the first GCN 7970, maybe this is why i have more improvements :) |
| 20:49 |
Fixer |
superfl pr is this #3770 |
| 20:49 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3770 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by ShadowNinja |
| 20:56 |
sofar |
whoops, game frozen with farmap |
| 20:56 |
sofar |
celeron55: second time I've seen it freeze now |
| 20:58 |
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| 21:02 |
celeron55 |
well |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
that's not useful unless you get a backtrace because it never freezes for me |
| 21:04 |
sofar |
running with gdb now |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
see if I can catch it |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
I love how farmap continues to load far block |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
after a while it's got everything loaded |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
what is the scale of far_map_far_weight? |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
I set it to 16, lol |
| 21:06 |
celeron55 |
scale? |
| 21:08 |
sofar |
what does the number mean? |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
16 will make the server send farmap stuff very very eagerly |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
you'll get almost no mapblocks |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
it's documented, just read the doc |
| 21:10 |
celeron55 |
it's a priorization factor |
| 21:10 |
celeron55 |
mapblocks and farblocks are in the same priorization system with farblock distances divided by that number |
| 21:15 |
paramat |
i've just noticed farmap changing to ultra-low res at 1000 nodes, too close for such low res cubes |
| 21:16 |
paramat |
i'll comment in PR |
| 21:18 |
celeron55 |
oh that... yeah |
| 21:26 |
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| 21:47 |
Fixer |
changing inventory page on vanessas creative is 2-4 sec drawtime |
| 21:50 |
nore |
Fixer: only on first time you see a new inventory page, or on the others as well? |
| 21:50 |
Fixer |
each page for the first time |
| 21:51 |
Fixer |
26 pages :S |
| 21:51 |
nore |
hm, it has been like this for a looooong time :/ |
| 21:51 |
Fixer |
on that fancy inventory plus panel iirc |
| 21:51 |
nore |
that's because preload_item_visuals is disabled |
| 21:51 |
nore |
so client sees that it needs the textures late |
| 21:52 |
nore |
I actually don't know how this could be fixed |
| 21:55 |
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| 21:57 |
sofar |
nore: care to +1 game#911 now? |
| 21:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/911 -- Allow both sides of the bed to be digged up. by sofar |
| 21:59 |
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| 22:03 |
bobomb |
does anyone want to help with writing a few lua modding functions into minetest core to allow using irrlicht IImage methods? |
| 22:05 |
sofar |
I wouldn't even know what IImage is, maybe some more info is needed? |
| 22:05 |
bobomb |
it would be very simple, using only IImageLoader::loadImage() and IImage::getPixel() |
| 22:05 |
bobomb |
IImage is an irrlicht class |
| 22:05 |
sofar |
what would the functionality be? |
| 22:05 |
bobomb |
the idea is that mods need access to core image handling functionality |
| 22:06 |
bobomb |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14164&sid=904c7853f63c27485fd4b14327ce5cae |
| 22:06 |
sofar |
mods reading textures? |
| 22:06 |
bobomb |
pixel access to images that are not necessarily textures |
| 22:06 |
bobomb |
pixel to voxel conversion |
| 22:07 |
bobomb |
mods need to be able to load images and read pixel rgb values. |
| 22:07 |
sofar |
ok, I see. I'd make a lua method that returns an object handle that has the appropriate methods to read pixels by coordinates |
| 22:07 |
sofar |
but I have no idea how to do such a thing :) |
| 22:08 |
bobomb |
some mods might want pixel_set and imageWrite functionality too but that is less important |
| 22:08 |
sofar |
but, the images would be in the mods path to begin with |
| 22:08 |
bobomb |
yes |
| 22:08 |
bobomb |
or wherever... |
| 22:08 |
sofar |
so it's kind of a dev type of thing only |
| 22:09 |
sofar |
unless you're going to write world map tiles for some external website? |
| 22:09 |
sofar |
exporting seems like a much better use case than importing |
| 22:09 |
bobomb |
no, not write, read from heightmaps etc for mapgen mods |
| 22:09 |
bobomb |
see the forum link above |
| 22:09 |
nrzkt |
bobomb, don't forget lua is server side mainly |
| 22:09 |
sofar |
yeah, that's a one time conversion process |
| 22:09 |
sofar |
image converted? problem solved! |
| 22:09 |
nrzkt |
irrlicht images are not transfered to clients if generated server side |
| 22:09 |
sofar |
world map tile export is a continuous problem |
| 22:10 |
sofar |
it's never done, always changes |
| 22:10 |
bobomb |
this is server side |
| 22:10 |
bobomb |
for mapgen mods |
| 22:10 |
bobomb |
more interested in import |
| 22:10 |
bobomb |
all we are looking for is to eliminate reliance on lua-libs for image handling |
| 22:10 |
sofar |
I'm saying, use export as your motivation, it's a far better excuse :) |
| 22:11 |
bobomb |
ok that too then =) |
| 22:11 |
bobomb |
i want to make a camera tool |
| 22:13 |
bobomb |
theoretically i think i know what needs to go where but would like help from someone who works on core regularly and who is versed in exposing functionality to the lua modding api |
| 22:13 |
bobomb |
celeron55 says it is a valid use case and would be included in core if it is kept neat and simple and doesn't attempt to become a paint program |
| 22:14 |
bobomb |
as for export it would be cool to take a worldedit volume and export it as a heightmap image (and a biome image) |
| 22:15 |
bobomb |
but that is only useful if import is already implemented... |
| 22:15 |
bobomb |
mods like realterrain and imageloader are the prime beneficiaries of this |
| 22:15 |
bobomb |
any takers? |
| 22:17 |
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sofar |
celeron55: farmap together with a focal blur could work well (the stuff from RBA's branch) |
| 22:58 |
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