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paramat |
i might merge game#687 later in case anyone wants to look at it (various biome tweaks) |
| 00:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/687 -- Mgv5/7 biomes: Add shallow dirt waters by paramat |
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| 17:26 |
est31 |
anybody wants to review #3214 |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3214 -- Add environment variable MINETEST_WORLD_PATH by SmallJoker |
| 17:26 |
est31 |
#3212 is waiting for hmmmm basically |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3212 -- get_biome_id lua function by duane-r |
| 17:28 |
est31 |
(paramat said "Someone more knowledgeable than me should check", the only one more knowlegeable on mapgen is hmmmm) |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
wow 241 abms in dreambuilder |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
means whole block gets scanned 241 times |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
whole loaded map* |
| 18:04 |
hmmmm |
abms are ridiculous |
| 18:04 |
hmmmm |
let's see |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:05 |
hmmmm |
heh duane brings up a valid point |
| 18:05 |
hmmmm |
or at least so it would seem, but the official way of reading the shadow biome table is not documented |
| 18:06 |
est31 |
abms are totally bad, agreed. |
| 18:07 |
est31 |
I've promised to implement #3002 and #3003 |
| 18:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3002 -- ABM scanning is very slow |
| 18:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3003 -- Do leafdecay scanning in the engine |
| 18:07 |
est31 |
any further ideas on how to speed them up |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
write a better alternative to ABMs |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
it's not very possible to make ABMs faster due to their expected behavior |
| 18:08 |
est31 |
which is |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
something that works in bulk first of all |
| 18:08 |
est31 |
it is very easy to make them much much faster |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
how so? |
| 18:08 |
est31 |
read the issues |
| 18:09 |
est31 |
you can cache the list of nodes, then you dont have to scan everything |
| 18:09 |
est31 |
and you can make faster leafdecay scanning |
| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
I'm not so sure if adding caching would "fix" abms |
| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
guarantees are simply too strong the way they are currently implemented |
| 18:11 |
est31 |
can you please tell me actual points |
| 18:11 |
est31 |
you said "in bulk" what do you mean with it |
| 18:11 |
est31 |
is it this stuff soni suggested |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
operate on whole mapblocks to begin with |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
I don't know what soni suggested tbh |
| 18:11 |
est31 |
where you register ABMs with passing a table |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
no idea |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
lua would get the entire block to work with, possibly using voxelmanip |
| 18:12 |
est31 |
voxelmanip?! |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
sure |
| 18:12 |
est31 |
that thing that copies the whole content |
| 18:12 |
kahrl |
how about replacing some of the ABMs with something like this: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Tick#Block_tick |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
i'd say pass the same voxelmanip around to each ABM call |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
block tick, yeah |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
that sounds exactly like what I would do |
| 18:13 |
hmmmm |
right now the main issue with ABMs is that the guarantees in behavior are way too strong to effectively optimize |
| 18:13 |
est31 |
what do we guarantee? |
| 18:13 |
hmmmm |
you can do caching but depending on how you go about it this could break the guarantee |
| 18:13 |
est31 |
that there is some method called every now and then, on these loaded blocks |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
thats the whole thing |
| 18:14 |
hmmmm |
what if an ABM modifies a block in the ABM, therefore modifying the neighbors |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
or is there more |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
well, if there is an edit, the cache gets invalidated |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
and gets reloaded |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
have we ever said "we guarantee this" |
| 18:14 |
hmmmm |
I dunno man |
| 18:15 |
est31 |
and do mods use that guarantee |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
if it's in the documentation, then yes |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
and mods definitely do expect a certain behavior |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
at least I was told it's in the documentation by some people |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
never actually checked myself |
| 18:15 |
est31 |
thats all the documentation says: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html#abm-activeblockmodifier-definition-register_abm |
| 18:16 |
est31 |
please correct me when im wrong |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
I guess it doesn't actually say it... |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
if you want to modify the ABM behavior be prepared for a shitstorm but you're technically in the O.K. here |
| 18:19 |
hmmmm |
lol I love how vague documentation for ABMs are versus documentation for my register_* things |
| 18:20 |
est31 |
ahhh typo found! |
| 18:20 |
est31 |
"added to minetest.registered_biome with the key of biome.name" |
| 18:20 |
est31 |
its registered_biomes right? |
| 18:21 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 18:21 |
hmmmm |
wait the key is biome.name!?? |
| 18:21 |
hmmmm |
no no no way |
| 18:21 |
hmmmm |
I made it the numerical index |
| 18:22 |
hmmmm |
ohh, maybe I changed it when I added object handles |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:47 |
est31 |
either way, it would be great if doc was fixed |
| 18:50 |
est31 |
yeah, seems like its integer indexed |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
so #3212 is ok for merge now? you want to merge it? |
| 18:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3212 -- get_biome_id lua function by duane-r |
| 18:55 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 18:58 |
* Krock |
drills the toothpick in pull #3214 : Any other statements? |
| 18:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3214 -- Add environment variable MINETEST_WORLD_PATH by SmallJoker |
| 18:59 |
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| 21:02 |
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| 21:35 |
hmmmm |
Krock: it looks good to me at first glance |
| 21:36 |
hmmmm |
well there's a missing space in a while statement |
| 21:36 |
hmmmm |
but i need to take a closer look at it to make sure there aren't any subtle mistakes |
| 21:38 |
Krock |
Okay, thanks :) |
| 22:07 |
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| 22:17 |
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| 22:22 |
waressearcher2 |
I'm confused with the word "node" inside source code |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:23 |
waressearcher2 |
I looked inside camera.h and there is that code: "inline scene::ISceneNode* getPlayerNode() const" and the description is "// Get player scene node. This node is positioned at the player's torso (without any view bobbing)" does that word "node" here means the same "node" as in world map ? like one "block" you can destroy ? |
| 22:23 |
hmmmm |
no not at all |
| 22:23 |
hmmmm |
whenever you see the word "node" in relation to something having to do with graphics, that's referring to an Irrlicht SceneNode |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
you should be able to tell the difference between the two based on the type |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
ISceneNode vs. MapNode |
| 22:42 |
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| 23:50 |
waressearcher2 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/0.2.20110731_3 is that version the oldest available ? is there even older ? |
| 23:58 |
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