| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:10 |
paramat |
yeah saveschems mod |
| 00:11 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 00:11 |
VanessaE |
do you, like, have some kind of script/bot/whatever that scrapes the logs and pings you? ;) |
| 00:12 |
paramat |
my head |
| 00:12 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 00:14 |
paramat |
worldedit is not great for saving schematics because you can't punch air to set it's probability to 0, and currently you can't set the per-node force-place |
| 00:15 |
paramat |
that feature needs updating, or perhaps a dedicated node editor |
| 00:15 |
VanessaE |
I'm finally preparing an update to Dreambuilder, wanted to make sure I included the "source" code for those |
| 00:16 |
Sokomine |
paramat: i've decided to release the current version of my handle_schematics mod and posted it in the forum. with that, schematics are far easier to handle. hopefully, minetest.get_dir_list will soon be less restrictive |
| 00:16 |
VanessaE |
btw, the acacia and pine schematics you have in saveschems are not identical to what's in upstream minetest_game |
| 00:16 |
paramat |
for some structures the table form is actually easier to work with |
| 00:16 |
Sokomine |
ah, ok, i don't do the per-node-probability |
| 00:17 |
paramat |
yes some of the trees in saveschems may be older versions |
| 00:17 |
VanessaE |
ok, I'll swap in the current ones then -- I used the ones in saveschems. |
| 00:18 |
paramat |
Sokomine, you have tree problems you want to discuss? |
| 00:19 |
paramat |
in all that rush i didn't bother updating my saveschems repo to the improved designs |
| 00:19 |
VanessaE |
no worries. |
| 00:20 |
Sokomine |
yes. can we do that here or do we have to move to the general channel? |
| 00:20 |
Sokomine |
paramat: first: thanks for including the pines and acacias. more trees are great for the game in many aspects |
| 00:21 |
paramat |
i'll join the other channel |
| 00:21 |
Sokomine |
now, the problem i have is that i want to spawn trees inside mg_villages. the old minetest_game/mods/default/trees.lua code had code to generate the trees and spawn them inside a voxelmanip area it created for that purpose - which was fine; i just needed some changes and some functions where private |
| 00:22 |
Sokomine |
hm, now i started here |
| 00:23 |
Sokomine |
generating more or less simple trees and placing them into the world is a common problem for all mapgens and quite a lot of mods. it's...impractical...that there are so many ways out there |
| 00:24 |
Sokomine |
i do not want to keep a modified copy of the code from minetest_game forever. copying is bad for maintenance |
| 00:24 |
paramat |
okay lets continue here |
| 00:24 |
paramat |
it's sortof dev stuff |
| 00:26 |
Sokomine |
i'm wondering if it might be a good idea to offer a general tree-mod and a tree-registration function - a function that gets the nodes (trunk, leaves, fruit, planks) plus a way to actually put that tree-thing into the world (be it direct code, a schematic or l-system) |
| 00:26 |
paramat |
yeah i have been thinking we need more ways to spawn trees |
| 00:26 |
paramat |
ways that do not update lighting every tree |
| 00:27 |
paramat |
for example a way to place a schem in a voxelmanip without updating, for multipple trees |
| 00:27 |
paramat |
(multiple) |
| 00:28 |
Sokomine |
modders like adding trees, and they make the game richer. but even with the schematics, the abm wants to be created. and it would also be helpful in some situations to know that a particular node is something treeish (without having to resort to the group) or to change tree-like things for all mods installed in one go (i.e. changing the way the leaves are - walkable, climbable, solid, ...) |
| 00:29 |
Sokomine |
yes. right now i'm doing the place-a-schem-into-voxelmanip inside lua. so doing the new schematic-trees would work to a degree (i have no support for the probabilities yet) |
| 00:29 |
paramat |
the lua code that grows the mgv6 design trees from saplings could perhaps be split into 2 bits, the 'update map' bit could then be optional |
| 00:29 |
Sokomine |
it might also be helpful to be able to use a specific tree-shape (in particular the old way trees where generated) with diffrent nodes |
| 00:31 |
paramat |
ugh problem is i'm a bit exhausted after the release and am not inspired to work on this currently, but will keep it in miind |
| 00:31 |
paramat |
(mind) |
| 00:32 |
paramat |
devs feel like this -> :P~ |
| 00:32 |
Sokomine |
ah, ok :-) the release is of course a lot of stress |
| 00:32 |
Sokomine |
take a look at a real tree to get some relaxing ,-) |
| 00:32 |
paramat |
you might make a good dev |
| 00:33 |
paramat |
c++ is similar to lua and the code is not much more complex |
| 00:33 |
Sokomine |
my knowledge of c/c++ is currently too limited i'm afraid |
| 00:33 |
paramat |
so is mine =) |
| 00:34 |
Sokomine |
yes, that's right. in the end, it's just another language. it's not that i like lua particulary much |
| 00:35 |
paramat |
i was surprised how easy doing c++ stuff was, essentially if you're good at lua you're most of the way there already |
| 00:35 |
paramat |
Vanessa too, we need more devs |
| 00:36 |
paramat |
i stared at the mapgen soce for months until suddenly it made sense |
| 00:36 |
paramat |
(code) |
| 00:36 |
Sokomine |
in the end, most languages are the same. some do things a bit more complicated than others in some ways. but they all have their specialities, and it takes time to get used to it |
| 00:37 |
Sokomine |
the mapgen is way over my head :-) i read a bit about it but have no feeling for how all these perlin noises cooperate |
| 00:38 |
paramat |
the other mtgame devs are considering adding houses / simple villages to mapgen, you would be the obvious choice |
| 00:38 |
paramat |
anyway no pressure |
| 00:40 |
Sokomine |
oh. yes, of course. that would be fine for the game. my mod (based on nores) does that quite fine by now :-) |
| 00:41 |
Sokomine |
it all happens inside lua voxelmanip and is pretty fast. it'd be even faster if it where in the engine itshelf. that'd safe the time to pass the 3d array to lua and back |
| 00:45 |
Sokomine |
a good way to integrate villages might be to let lua do the planning of the village layout (=more flexibility for modders) and the c++ part do the actual placing. in theory, that'd already be possible with place_schematic, but in practice it isn't working so well as other mods may interfere and cavegen hits |
| 00:52 |
paramat |
structures added to mapgen by default would have to be very simple, lightweight and fast, with minimal terrain shaping. anything more complex is best left to mods. we could start with just the occasional single hut or ruin |
| 00:53 |
Sokomine |
that'd be a huge improvement already. players are glad if they encounter something in the world so that it doesn't seem so lonely and lifeless. but even small huts do require some terrain shaping |
| 00:54 |
paramat |
yes, some core code for flattening and clearing trees |
| 00:54 |
Sokomine |
in the end, a small hut just requires a smaller area to be changed in height |
| 00:55 |
Sokomine |
that'd be very helpful already |
| 00:55 |
Sokomine |
plus some core code for placing several schematics in one go at the right time |
| 00:57 |
VanessaE |
paramat: I've been asked before but I must decline again. besides, for now I'm content to just whine, piss, and moan when something needs fixed ;) |
| 00:58 |
Sokomine |
:-) |
| 00:58 |
paramat |
cool |
| 00:58 |
VanessaE |
speaking of fixing, did you sort out that shadowing issue with mgv7 + moretrees? |
| 01:00 |
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| 01:01 |
paramat |
do you spawn many l-system trees in a short amount of time? |
| 01:03 |
paramat |
the lighting update tends to make shadows if used too frequently |
| 01:03 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 01:03 |
VanessaE |
a few dozen at a time in the densest areas, I guess |
| 01:03 |
paramat |
ah. growing too many saplings at once does it too |
| 01:03 |
VanessaE |
default saplings? |
| 01:03 |
paramat |
yes |
| 01:04 |
VanessaE |
good to knopw |
| 01:04 |
VanessaE |
-p |
| 01:04 |
VanessaE |
means moretrees is even less-to-blame than it already was ;) |
| 01:04 |
Sokomine |
hm, yes, i've encountered it in the villages multiple times as well. there wasn't always an obvious sapling present in the shadowed area; but often nearby |
| 01:04 |
VanessaE |
btw as for adding structures to the mapgen, I would advise making them fairly rare, at least as much so as dungeons are |
| 01:05 |
paramat |
so yes we need a new l-system api that does not include a lighting update |
| 01:05 |
paramat |
yes agreed |
| 01:05 |
paramat |
the need for fast mapgen will force this anyway |
| 01:07 |
paramat |
for a start just the occasional abandoned hut or ruin |
| 01:08 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 01:08 |
VanessaE |
now about the lighting update...... how do you mean? |
| 01:08 |
VanessaE |
or, let me rephrase that |
| 01:08 |
VanessaE |
if lighting updates are suspended with some proposed new call, how would you trigger a "final" update? or would it even be needed? |
| 01:11 |
paramat |
just a single final update for the mapchunk i guess |
| 01:12 |
Sokomine |
the occasional hut or ruin might even be placed safely with place_schematic. as long as the ground where it will stand is sufficiently flat. any remaining cavegen griefing or mudflow might even add to a ruin |
| 01:13 |
paramat |
so moretrees would work 'on generated' |
| 01:14 |
VanessaE |
paramat: hm. ok. Better to fix the lighting code as well |
| 01:14 |
paramat |
yes that first |
| 01:14 |
VanessaE |
in plantlife, doing a final block-level update is easy enough, so I could indeed use that newer api call. |
| 01:14 |
VanessaE |
s/plantlife/biome_lib/ |
| 01:15 |
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| 15:16 |
Zeitgeist_ |
i am still working on the minetest bump for gentoo and got another issue, the example conf file doesnt get installed in the right location and overriding it with -DCUSTOM_CUSTOM_EXAMPLE_CONF_DIR doesnt seem to work |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:19 |
celeron55 |
Zeitgeist_: maybe because it's -DCUSTOM_EXAMPLE_CONF_DIR, not -DCUSTOM_CUSTOM_EXAMPLE_CONF_DIR |
| 16:27 |
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| 17:48 |
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| 17:48 |
TenPlus1 |
Hi folks... |
| 17:48 |
TenPlus1 |
Does anyone know of any issues with 0.4.13 that causes crashing ??? |
| 17:53 |
Krock |
Hi there, can you provide a link to the error message? |
| 17:53 |
TenPlus1 |
segfaults and std::bad_alloc errors |
| 17:54 |
TenPlus1 |
plus clients connecting to server are glitching out when using wireless |
| 17:54 |
TenPlus1 |
no errors apart from those |
| 17:54 |
TenPlus1 |
server was crashing every few minutes earlier with those errors, nothing specific |
| 17:57 |
TenPlus1 |
all mods have been tried and tested and work perfectly fine standalone and local server (no internet)... but things crash as soon as internet is involved ?!?! |
| 18:03 |
TenPlus1 |
would client version affect game server connections ?? |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
My server has never had a stf::bad_alloc crash, what mods do you have? |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
Xandu? |
| 18:11 |
TenPlus1 |
yes Xanadu... it's weird that some days it hardly crashes at all, and others it's every few minutes... |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
Before today, my server's had an up time of > 10 days (except for me restarting to install updates 6 days ago) |
| 18:12 |
TenPlus1 |
3d_armor, ambience, bags, bakedclay, beds, boats, boost_cart, bucket, builtin_item, framedglass, castle, doors, dropondie, dye, ethereal, farming, fire, flowers, inventory_plus, itemframes, lapis, lucky_blocks, mobs, money, more_chests, no_guests, paintings, teleport_potion, tnt, vessels, wieldview, wool, worldedit, xpanes, zcg |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
so we need to find out why it's happening to you |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
OS? |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
You should make a GH issue with all these details |
| 18:13 |
TenPlus1 |
server is running on lubuntu 14.04 64-bit with 4gb ram (minetest never goes over 600mb) and 120gb ssd drive |
| 18:14 |
TenPlus1 |
I've made many forum and gh issues and so far nothing has come of it... mods have been tested and never have errors, it's always those 2... |
| 18:14 |
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| 18:15 |
TenPlus1 |
I've even added a command to remove any entities in the area incase one turned out to be glitched... wasnt that |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
If you create a new, blank world does the error still happen? |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:18 |
TenPlus1 |
we tried running a limited xanadu world which still crashed... this was only for 1 day... |
| 18:19 |
rubenwardy |
what db backend? |
| 18:19 |
TenPlus1 |
we thought it was originally map errors that freaked out engine and crashed everything |
| 18:19 |
TenPlus1 |
sqlite... leveldb is too glitchy |
| 18:19 |
rubenwardy |
are you using sqlite_asynonous or whatever? |
| 18:19 |
TenPlus1 |
sqlite_synchronous = 1 is in minetest.conf |
| 18:20 |
TenPlus1 |
so it error checks |
| 18:20 |
TenPlus1 |
*should* |
| 18:22 |
TenPlus1 |
we tried converting map to leveldb but players kept reporting that blocks they removed or added disappeared when they returned to area |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
I'm reading an article saying that 32bit can make problems, although I don't see how as you only have 4GB of memory |
| 18:24 |
TenPlus1 |
we're using 64-bit os and minetest... |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
hmmm |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
you're sure? |
| 18:24 |
kilbith |
you do use heavy mapgen stuff and entities on your server IIRC |
| 18:25 |
TenPlus1 |
and server has been monitored and minetest memory usage never goes beyond 600mb... the whole server has been streamlined to run a terminal with minetestserver |
| 18:25 |
TenPlus1 |
heavy mapgen and entities ?? |
| 18:25 |
kilbith |
depends if it has been coded with feets or not |
| 18:25 |
TenPlus1 |
as soon as player walks away and mobs are out of shot they are removed |
| 18:25 |
TenPlus1 |
as for mapgen, only ethereal... using minetest's own biomes and decoration |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
TenPlus1 |
coded with feets ? |
| 18:31 |
nanepiwo |
i have a weird problem: i need to turn off my server to be able to start my gui minetest client, and then start the server |
| 18:31 |
rubenwardy |
How to rebase a PR to latest MT? |
| 18:32 |
TenPlus1 |
nanepiwo, what version of minetest are you using ? you should be able to keep server running and run a GUI minetest at same time |
| 18:35 |
T4im |
rubenwardy: go into your local branch then "git rebase upstream/master" (provided you call the official remote upstream, if not yet, I recommend so) after that you'll have to fix any conflicts coming up and rebase --continue until you're through |
| 18:35 |
T4im |
that also assumes you already fetched upstream/maser of course |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
ah |
| 18:36 |
rubenwardy |
that's why it wasn't working, it didn't git fetch |
| 18:36 |
T4im |
push back onto the branch your PR is from, and github will automaticly update the rest |
| 18:36 |
T4im |
ah, ok :D |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
hi guys |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i would like to get an answer for the very specific question |
| 18:41 |
TenPlus1 |
? |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
why sings are using nodebox drawtype and the only one one using signlike drawtype is ladder? |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
sorry for double "one" :P |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:43 |
* TenPlus1 |
use to use nodebox ladders but the rotation of the signlike one's was all over the place so reverted back |
| 18:43 |
kilbith |
you would have to make 7 nodeboxes for the ladder |
| 18:43 |
kilbith |
bad for performance |
| 18:44 |
kilbith |
or 6 |
| 18:44 |
T4im |
and the signs look better as nodebox than a hovering texture |
| 18:45 |
T4im |
organic api disgrowth x) |
| 18:48 |
TenPlus1 |
being in an area with many half slabs is enough to drop my framerate, nodebox ladders would kill my pc ;p |
| 18:49 |
kilbith |
just watch your FPS in a snowy forrest |
| 18:49 |
TenPlus1 |
indeed... lol, but they do look pretty :P the new biomes are great |
| 18:49 |
kilbith |
dramatically fell with single nodeboxes on trees |
| 18:49 |
TenPlus1 |
that's why I use plantlike leaves on ethereal... speeds things back up a taf |
| 18:49 |
TenPlus1 |
*tad |
| 18:50 |
kilbith |
so now imagine thousands of nodeboxes ladders around |
| 18:52 |
TenPlus1 |
paramat's new changes to fire mod helps things a bit too... modified it for server |
| 18:53 |
TenPlus1 |
but doing minetest.setting_get many times when checking fire seems to slow things down... |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
kilbith, there are no nodeboxes... |
| 18:54 |
TenPlus1 |
is their a way to cache minetest.conf settings in memory to keep things speeds |
| 18:54 |
TenPlus1 |
*speedy |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
see, theres no spoon :P |
| 18:54 |
kilbith |
sure, but there are many vertices ;) |
| 18:54 |
T4im |
TenPlus1: you can settings give you a table representation |
| 18:55 |
rubenwardy |
TenPlus1, I'm pretty sure they're help in memoryu |
| 18:55 |
TenPlus1 |
that would be handy, mods reading the same setting a lot definitely lags things... changed most of my mods to read it once (or less often) |
| 18:55 |
TenPlus1 |
what command to read from table representation in memory ? |
| 18:56 |
T4im |
probably :to_table() or so |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
im askin why sign is nodebox and ladder is sign |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a mess |
| 18:56 |
T4im |
TenPlus1: Settings(filename):to_table() |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
Rebase of #1869: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/tree/http_fetch |
| 18:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1869 -- Add scriptapi interface to HTTPFetchRequest by Jeija |
| 18:57 |
TenPlus1 |
T4im, so minetest doesnt do this automatially on 1st run, it's up to mod to copy it into tabkle ? |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
kilbith, you can ask your unix masters bout that :P |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
TenPlus1, oh right, yeah they're not cached in Lua |
| 18:57 |
kilbith |
and you can ask on new fork |
| 18:58 |
kilbith |
on your* |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
kilbith, im still codin for mt |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
in case you havent noticed ;P |
| 18:58 |
kilbith |
oh ? last time you said "i don't care anymore, you morons and middle finger" ... |
| 18:59 |
TenPlus1 |
lol |
| 19:00 |
TenPlus1 |
T4im, for now it's prolly easier to load settings into variable at start of mod... until tables are global to access |
| 19:00 |
T4im |
they are certainly cached in the engine; the table reprensentation can be useful if you need lots of settings in one place, or need to search through them |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
TenPlus1, indexing tables are slow as well, if you want speed at the cost of not being able to do /set enable_fire false, use local fire_enabled = ... in the init.lua |
| 19:01 |
rubenwardy |
ie: outside of the function, so it only loads at load time |
| 19:01 |
TenPlus1 |
that's what I've done rubenwardy... was just wondering (hoping) they were globally loaded when minetest started |
| 19:01 |
TenPlus1 |
most of my mods do that to save on lagg |
| 19:01 |
rubenwardy |
at a guess I'd say they're stored on the CPP side |
| 19:02 |
T4im |
just test changing a value in the config at runtime.. it will probably not be reflected in the engine -> read at startup |
| 19:02 |
T4im |
as a heuristic |
| 19:02 |
T4im |
but I think I also saw it early read when doctoring around with the apparmor profile |
| 19:03 |
T4im |
which btw, *thumps up* is pretty clean in the case of minetest... relativly to other software minetest keeps its fingers mostly where they belong, it seems |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:05 |
TenPlus1 |
Q. would different clients connecting to a server affect performance or stability... e.g. freeminer, minetest clones, older versions etc? |
| 19:05 |
kilbith |
freeminer can connect ? |
| 19:05 |
kilbith |
since it's enet |
| 19:06 |
TenPlus1 |
it was mentioned that 0.4.12+ uses a new way of networking, just curious if this breaks at all when using older clients |
| 19:07 |
rubenwardy |
TenPlus1, whilst it shouldn't be possible for clients to crash servers or make them unresponsive, you've got to remember that there will be bugs with Minetest |
| 19:08 |
TenPlus1 |
I know, am wondering what if anything can cause a crash... known issues... that kinda thing |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
kilbith, last time i was coding hotfixes in hurry for 13 |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
what i felt offended with was paramats opinion that parallax and premade maps look awful and should be disabled |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
that was kinda criticall mass reaction |
| 19:10 |
kilbith |
and your previous self-inflated melodrama was for the PR on music |
| 19:10 |
kilbith |
there was several |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
see, im doing AV |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
nothing more |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
being on that position, and have no real vote to make anythin? |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
a joke |
| 19:12 |
rubenwardy |
You're not actually the AV sub-system maintainer though |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
now im not |
| 19:12 |
rubenwardy |
so, other than being a core developer, you have no elevated rights |
| 19:13 |
rubenwardy |
*had |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
im coding now what i want |
| 19:13 |
rubenwardy |
good |
| 19:14 |
RealBadAngel |
for a break i took mese crystals |
| 19:14 |
RealBadAngel |
now im on sings |
| 19:14 |
TenPlus1 |
the growing crystals next to lava thing? |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:32 |
TenPlus1 |
hi paramar |
| 19:32 |
TenPlus1 |
*t |
| 19:32 |
paramat |
hi |
| 19:32 |
paramat |
i have changes to fire mod here game#651 |
| 19:32 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM (WIP) by paramat |
| 19:32 |
paramat |
no more frequent use of 'setting get' |
| 19:33 |
TenPlus1 |
ahh, did u add my changed paramat ? |
| 19:33 |
paramat |
no did this independantly |
| 19:33 |
TenPlus1 |
ehehe, kewl :) added your changes to my own with a few tweaks |
| 19:34 |
paramat |
also has fast extinguishing. fire mod is a bit of a mess for 0.4.13 |
| 19:34 |
paramat |
so working on it |
| 19:37 |
TenPlus1 |
I sent u msg in forums with a few changes paramat, so it still reads disable_fire setting every 7 seconds |
| 19:43 |
paramat |
ah i see, haven't got your message yet. my PR only needs to read it once |
| 19:44 |
TenPlus1 |
this was so you could enable.disable fire live on server |
| 19:44 |
paramat |
ah i see |
| 19:45 |
paramat |
that could be useful.. |
| 19:45 |
TenPlus1 |
I removed the sounds on my own github version to use ambiance instead, less resources used |
| 19:46 |
paramat |
is live setting of 'disable fire' essential? |
| 19:46 |
paramat |
i may have to rethink my PR |
| 19:47 |
TenPlus1 |
not really... just for servers where fire can be enabled.disabled on the fly... your version works great when 1 setting is in use |
| 19:53 |
paramat |
sorry RealBadAngel i only asked for removal of parallax occlusion because i misunderstood you here http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-08-19#i_4371511 and was essentially 'agreeing with you' |
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| 20:01 |
TenPlus1 |
cya folks |
| 20:07 |
* paramat |
looks at tenplus1's fire mod |
| 20:07 |
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| 23:01 |
segfault22 |
hey y'all, I'm having some issues with configuring sheet ore generation parameters,... it seems that regardless of what the "noise_threshold" and "persist" values are set to, I always get massive swathes of ore that are often interconnected |
| 23:05 |
segfault22 |
I prefer generating somewhat smaller clusters, so that they are difficult to find but still providing plenty of ore for those who can find them,... so basically, I need to be able to control how often the noise value reaches above the noise_threshold |
| 23:06 |
segfault22 |
all of my attempts at modifying the parameters have failed, resulting in the same giant clusters,... but oddly I have been using identical parameters to what was actually working in the past, to no avail. |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:11 |
segfault22 |
welcome |
| 23:12 |
segfault22 |
its so lonely here,... as if none of the people connected to the IRC are looking at it. Should I start naming them so that they get a notification of activity? |
| 23:12 |
segfault22 |
or would that be spammy |
| 23:12 |
T4im |
you probably need to divide those values by a factor to get a better resolution |
| 23:13 |
T4im |
and yes highlighting random people is generally considered rude ;) |
| 23:14 |
T4im |
sorry, swapping myself to death here right now, give me a moment |
| 23:14 |
segfault22 |
thank you for the reply, any support is helpful |
| 23:15 |
segfault22 |
I have changed all of the parameters in both directions,... but I haven't tried tiny fractional values yet. Was the code making use of noise_threshold changed to interpret a higher value as a lower threshold? |
| 23:18 |
kahrl |
if it makes you feel any better, I did read what you wrote |
| 23:19 |
kahrl |
but I know nothing about noise parameters so I did not respond |
| 23:20 |
segfault22 |
it's okay,... |
| 23:22 |
segfault22 |
It seems very unusual that even when I use the parameters that generated only about 12 iridium ore nodes per 1000x1000x1000 area, it still generates massive swathes. |
| 23:22 |
T4im |
if the perlin noise behaves similar as simpex noise with this, you don't want to map minetest coordinates to noise map coordinates 1:1, that would result (at least with simplex) in very rough differences |
| 23:23 |
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| 23:23 |
T4im |
dividing these by a factor should increase frequency, thereby giving you more different values on a shorter area |
| 23:24 |
T4im |
but I'm a bit winging this x) |
| 23:24 |
segfault22 |
Did they change it to simplex noise? I thought it was always perlin noise,... I understand what you are saying, and I have tried to change the values independent of node coordinates for size. |
| 23:24 |
T4im |
no, not in minetest |
| 23:24 |
T4im |
not yet anyway |
| 23:24 |
segfault22 |
good |
| 23:25 |
segfault22 |
I would rather use perlin noise because it was what was working a while ago |
| 23:25 |
T4im |
but I wouldn't be surprised if perlin behaves similar in that regard |
| 23:25 |
T4im |
its worth a try at least ;) |
| 23:25 |
T4im |
and since frequency doesn't seem to be one of those plenty parameters, I guess you still have to do that yourself |
| 23:28 |
segfault22 |
A while ago I could work with it and make it generate sheets of the relative size I wanted, but it now appears that even when using parameters identical to those, it stays the same. I am somewhat convinced that there has been a change in how the values are interpreted, but it hasn't broken other mods like technic marble/granite generation |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:32 |
T4im |
no idea, but your issue sounds like a too low frequency too me.. imagine a wave over that world.. you cut the peaks.. you get more surface there as if you would increase frequency which "thin" peaks |
| 23:33 |
T4im |
with* |
| 23:35 |
segfault22 |
I basically need to be able to control the amplitude variation of the waves, relative to the threshold - so that I can make lots of smaller peaks instead of few very massive plateaus |
| 23:36 |
T4im |
you can do that by playing with the input coordinates.. not sure if the perlin noise is "meant" to do that, but it might just do the trick |
| 23:36 |
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| 23:36 |
T4im |
not parameters, but the coordinates |
| 23:37 |
segfault22 |
coordinates? like the x/y/z scale? |
| 23:37 |
T4im |
yep |
| 23:37 |
segfault22 |
I see |
| 23:38 |
est31 |
okay the poll phase for the website competition has ended |
| 23:39 |
est31 |
calinou's entry won |
| 23:39 |
segfault22 |
cool |
| 23:40 |
T4im |
ah, "scale" actually might be exactly that parameter for perlin noise that does exactly that |
| 23:40 |
est31 |
so, now we are at step 4 of the website contest "The core devs discuss which entry to chose, what to modify, also considering technical arguments (esp. 4. and 5.)." |
| 23:41 |
est31 |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12843 |
| 23:41 |
est31 |
and I vouch for Calinou's entry, its technically more aligned to the github setup we want to do |
| 23:42 |
segfault22 |
Although I am still experiencing the same problems with too massive swathes of ore, I now understand what the scale values do |
| 23:42 |
est31 |
other opinions on this? |
| 23:43 |
segfault22 |
The other parameters control how often the sheets occur; scale controls how far out from the center they generate |
| 23:44 |
T4im |
well, it seems they are there to change the frequency, but in a way that allows it to be used for octaves afterwards as well, if there is lacunarity provided, too that is |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
The only problem I see with Calinou's entry is that it is too large for slow to retrieve for metered connections |
| 23:45 |
T4im |
which seems exists |
| 23:47 |
T4im |
if you would just would mess with the input coordinates to change frequency, you would mix into frequency increase per octave later |
| 23:49 |
T4im |
I wonder, weren't there plans once to add simplexnoise, est31? |
| 23:49 |
T4im |
also, bootstrap should be able to be stripped down iirc |
| 23:49 |
est31 |
yup |
| 23:49 |
est31 |
(to the second msg) |
| 23:51 |
segfault22 |
we should be able to choose which noise algorithm to use, maybe even allow custom ones |
| 23:52 |
est31 |
well, you can do all these things already if you modify c++ code |
| 23:53 |
est31 |
T4im, don't know whether simplex noise has been considered or not, I dont know much about mapgen |
| 23:56 |
segfault22 |
For those of us who don't speak C++, it would be helpful to include selection of the noise algorithm in the minetest.register_ore() function |
| 23:56 |
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| 23:57 |
segfault22 |
There would need to be made a standard for the files that define the algorithm, so that they can be added by mods without having to modify the C++ code |
| 23:58 |
segfault22 |
instead of just duct-taping the algorithms to the generation code |
| 23:58 |
est31 |
The point of c++ mapgen is speed |
| 23:58 |
est31 |
so there is no big point in using lua noise for a c++ mapgen, if you already can use 100% pure lua mapgen |
| 23:58 |
segfault22 |
Of course, but c++ mapgen can be augmented by being able to tell it what to do, by supplying it with a separate file for the algorithm and such |
| 23:59 |
segfault22 |
I never suggested that we should drop C++ |
| 23:59 |
est31 |
segfault22, you can drop c++ already now |
| 23:59 |
est31 |
there are some pure lua mapgens out there, just search for them |
