| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:02 |
hmmmm |
damn |
| 00:02 |
hmmmm |
mods still get run for a couple of MS after a crash |
| 00:03 |
est |
wtf |
| 00:03 |
hmmmm |
hehe i see why it gets cleared sorta |
| 00:04 |
est |
lets hope its not "i see, but had to sign an NDA", like in one part of the bible lol |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
http://fpaste.org/254129/38330143/ |
| 00:14 |
est |
ok |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
it's because the fatal server arror as asynchronous |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
trying to think of how this can possibly interact with other things to cause an error in error handling |
| 00:16 |
hmmmm |
hopefully the debug namespace isn't getting overwritten or anything by an errant mod |
| 00:16 |
est |
? |
| 00:17 |
est |
store it into a local variable |
| 00:17 |
est |
file-local |
| 00:17 |
est |
local debug = debug |
| 00:17 |
hmmmm |
i mean before crashing |
| 00:18 |
hmmmm |
besides, there's no way the lua state could get executed twice, there's scriptapi lock |
| 00:24 |
est |
RealBadAngel, comments? #3036 |
| 00:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3036 -- Minimap needs to be customizeable by the server |
| 00:59 |
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| 01:09 |
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| 01:17 |
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| 01:24 |
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| 01:31 |
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| 01:39 |
hmmmm |
why is that a blocker |
| 01:39 |
hmmmm |
est, come on |
| 01:39 |
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| 01:40 |
hmmmm |
let's not make this overcomplicated, yes? I'll just add a flag to hud_set_* |
| 01:43 |
VanessaE |
speaking of minimap... |
| 01:43 |
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| 01:43 |
VanessaE |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&sid=ec1b28676d72c48c495920206bcae25a&p=186979#p186979 |
| 01:44 |
VanessaE |
take notice of the artifacts therein in inocudom's screenshot |
| 01:44 |
est31 |
hmmmm, the I see following problems with adding flags to hud_set |
| 01:44 |
est31 |
1. currently we explain which mode we have on switches |
| 01:44 |
hmmmm |
it's not going to be flexible, yes i realize that |
| 01:44 |
est31 |
of minimap modes |
| 01:44 |
VanessaE |
er, this link might work better: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=186979#p186979 |
| 01:45 |
hmmmm |
just have an enable/disable switch for now |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
thats already there |
| 01:45 |
hmmmm |
from the server though? |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
just hack the texture |
| 01:45 |
hmmmm |
then what's wrong? |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
dunno if the client can override it with texture packs |
| 01:45 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: heh |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
but theoretically its possible |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
it isnt proper. |
| 01:46 |
est31 |
hud_set is neither |
| 01:46 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: it looks from that screenshot like the normal map is fully generated but the minimap image texture is not |
| 01:46 |
hmmmm |
est31: what do you expect during feature freeze? |
| 01:46 |
hmmmm |
this is supposed to be for minor fixes only |
| 01:46 |
est31 |
hmmmm, agreed, but minimap is a major feature |
| 01:46 |
hmmmm |
it's an unstable one |
| 01:46 |
est31 |
unstable in which regard? |
| 01:47 |
est31 |
there are some leaks with it, agreed, but we fixed most I guess |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
things are going to be changing around it |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
unstable in that sense |
| 01:47 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: might be. I've never seen this artifact on my setup but then again I don't use shaders, much less normals. |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 01:47 |
est31 |
hmmmm, you know all this stuff wouldnt be needed if we had clientside scripting |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: I'll have to look into it while i do the other minimap things |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
est31, yes I realize that |
| 01:47 |
est31 |
but we dont have it right now |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
we have other things to do |
| 01:47 |
VanessaE |
ok. just thought I'd mention it. |
| 01:48 |
est31 |
so lets not sit in a corner and not do anything, because the clientsid escripting |
| 01:48 |
hmmmm |
client side scripting is top priority for new features |
| 01:48 |
est31 |
didnt happen yet |
| 01:49 |
est31 |
that person is using freeminer btw |
| 01:49 |
est31 |
they should ask the support of their fork |
| 01:51 |
est31 |
the issue is, that proper minimap flexibility from the server requires: |
| 01:51 |
est31 |
1. ability to turn it off |
| 01:51 |
est31 |
2. ability to make minimap a craft-able item |
| 01:51 |
est31 |
that's what I think we should aim for |
| 01:51 |
est31 |
I dont see how the general setup of it will change in future |
| 01:52 |
est31 |
e.g. that we have radar mode with different zoom levels, and that we have surface mode with different zoom levels |
| 01:52 |
est31 |
thats all what my suggestion requires |
| 01:53 |
est31 |
Yes, its done in feature freeze, but we renamed pine trees in feature freeze too. |
| 01:53 |
hmmmm |
that was something paramat was doing with minetest game |
| 01:53 |
est31 |
and thats even something very low priority |
| 01:53 |
hmmmm |
i dunno what he's doing :p |
| 01:53 |
est31 |
no, he did a commit on the engine too |
| 01:53 |
hmmmm |
right i saw |
| 01:54 |
hmmmm |
anyway instead of talking i need to be coding right now |
| 01:54 |
est31 |
good. |
| 01:54 |
hmmmm |
sorry don't take it personally |
| 01:54 |
est31 |
nono, I talk too much as well. |
| 01:55 |
hmmmm |
yeah but you have a seemingly endless supply of time and energy to devote to minetest |
| 01:55 |
hmmmm |
so it works out okay |
| 01:55 |
est31 |
I should devote less :/ |
| 02:28 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3037 |
| 02:52 |
est31 |
This does add overhead |
| 02:53 |
est31 |
perhaps you can ask the people who have the error in error handling error to checkout your pr? |
| 02:53 |
est31 |
then they can find out the reason |
| 02:53 |
est31 |
and we can merge the pr after the freeze |
| 02:55 |
est31 |
have you found out why the lua engine is still running for a few secs? |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
yes i know why, i already said |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
it's even in the name |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
AsyncFatalError |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
Async |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
est31: it's a trivial amount of overhead |
| 03:17 |
hmmmm |
the C to lua transition is much more costly in terms of performance |
| 03:19 |
est31 |
whats the actual path here? |
| 03:19 |
est31 |
you call some callback |
| 03:19 |
est31 |
the lua code calls c code |
| 03:19 |
est31 |
the c code throws an error |
| 03:19 |
est31 |
and then? |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
we don't know the path of the error |
| 03:20 |
est31 |
is it ignored, the lua runtime continues its work, until it gets sent to the main thread, from where the lua runtime is finally stopped? |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
oh you're talking about the async fatal errors |
| 03:20 |
est31 |
yes |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
a lua callback is run with lua_pcall() |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
if that lua code calls some C code |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
and there's an exception inside that C code |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
it gets recast as a LuaError thanks to our super special error handling |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
see: script_execution_wrapper |
| 03:22 |
est31 |
and then? |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
so inside the code somewhere if I do throw SerializationError(), then that lua_pcall would return LUA_ERRRUN |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
and the error message would contain the contents of e.what() |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
on the other hand, if the error happened inside the lua portion, then it just runtime errors without any special handling |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
either case you get LUA_ERRRUN |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
script_error is called in this case, which then throws a LuaError |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
it gets caught by the top-level ServerThread exception handler, which sets a std::string to the contents of this exception message |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
execution resumes |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
the next server step, it checks this variable and notices that there was an error, then it asserts(0) |
| 03:25 |
est31 |
ah I see now |
| 03:25 |
est31 |
this doesnt feel right |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
this makes it so that lua can error from any thread |
| 03:27 |
est31 |
which threads call lua? Only emergethread and the server thread, right? |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
anyway, can we somehow make it so that mods cannot change the debug namespace |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
because that could be a cause of the error |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
right now, yes, only the emergethreads and serverthread |
| 03:30 |
est31 |
isnt having multiple threads in lua not a ticking time bomb already? |
| 03:30 |
est31 |
I mean in the same lua context |
| 03:30 |
hmmmm |
it's locked |
| 03:30 |
hmmmm |
there are three major locks in minetest's server: |
| 03:30 |
hmmmm |
envlock, conlock, and scriptlock |
| 03:31 |
est31 |
ewwww |
| 03:31 |
est31 |
so lua mapgen isnt multithreaded??? |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
lua mapgen isn't |
| 03:31 |
est31 |
:-[ |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
the regular mapgen is |
| 03:32 |
est31 |
how could the debug namespace change cause errors? |
| 03:33 |
hmmmm |
it causes an error in the error handler, which uses the debug namespace |
| 03:34 |
hmmmm |
by the way, here is part of my testing mod: http://fpaste.org/254168/14393504/ |
| 03:37 |
est31 |
ok |
| 03:38 |
est31 |
so you mean things like this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3037/files#diff-7b4242351dd3cf5b2a70c8aa9d12149bR470 |
| 03:38 |
est31 |
where the debug namespace is accessed? |
| 03:54 |
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| 04:02 |
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| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
no, modifying it |
| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
not calling a function in it |
| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
anyway, approved or not? |
| 04:09 |
est31 |
hmmmm, the pr has many lines |
| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
ah ok ok i wasn't sure if you were looking at it still |
| 04:10 |
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| 04:17 |
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| 04:24 |
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| 04:26 |
kaeza |
hmmmm, if you are concerned about `debug` table getting modified, you should explicitly localize the needed functions instead of the table itself |
| 04:27 |
est31 |
that might be better agreed |
| 04:27 |
est31 |
is* |
| 04:28 |
kaeza |
of course, there are ways to modify function locals anyway, assuming you have access to `debug` in the first place |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
it's practically the only way i know how to cause a true LUA_ERRERR |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
i don't actually think messing with the debug namespace is the reason why this happens, but it might be something similar |
| 04:34 |
est31 |
kaeza, access to debug is limited |
| 04:34 |
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| 04:35 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/502e40a649137461947c36ea52205f058f81296f/src/script/cpp_api/s_security.cpp#L108 |
| 04:35 |
est31 |
@ least if security is turned on |
| 04:38 |
kaeza |
well, if a mod goes to those lengths to modify your upvalues, give it a cookie :P |
| 04:40 |
est31 |
I agree. we wont get it 100% secure here. |
| 04:40 |
est31 |
also if a mod wants to stay hidden it can simply register during runtime |
| 04:45 |
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| 06:07 |
RealBadAngel |
#3038 |
| 06:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3038 -- Add main menu music score - "Mercury Rain" by Skaven/FC by RealBadAngel |
| 06:29 |
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| 06:30 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/626 |
| 06:30 |
RealBadAngel |
here goes fixed grass nodes definitions |
| 06:31 |
RealBadAngel |
regular grass, dry grass and grass with snow |
| 06:38 |
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| 06:53 |
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| 06:56 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, why you are using git for chatting? channel is not enough? |
| 07:01 |
celeron55 |
git? |
| 07:01 |
celeron55 |
do you mean github? |
| 07:02 |
hmmmm |
:| |
| 07:02 |
celeron55 |
because github issues is our primary communcation channel for issues; IRC is secondary |
| 07:02 |
hmmmm |
celeron, RBA, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3037 ?? |
| 07:02 |
hmmmm |
PTAL |
| 07:04 |
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| 07:16 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, about such code, its not my area. so i can just trust you with +1 |
| 07:16 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 07:17 |
hmmmm |
the point of a code review is to review code |
| 07:17 |
hmmmm |
not to review trust |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
i know but you asked me |
| 07:17 |
hmmmm |
I dunno I thought maybe you might know about it |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
the files im working on i know since 2 yrs |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
its like being home |
| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
if you ask about anything mapblock_mesh related i know where it is without lookin at the file |
| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
but when it comes to your code i simply dont know |
| 07:19 |
RealBadAngel |
and i also dont want to be just formatting and whitespaces commenter |
| 07:19 |
hmmmm |
fair enough |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
earining a +1 by trust is also solid imho |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
we should support each other |
| 07:23 |
RealBadAngel |
frankly i do not understand those flame wars going on here recently |
| 07:24 |
RealBadAngel |
brb, going out to buy a piece of pipe |
| 07:24 |
RealBadAngel |
need to craft something in the kitchen :) |
| 07:25 |
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| 07:25 |
RealBadAngel |
when i will be back i will make a pr with more normal and heightmaps for mt game |
| 07:25 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3037/files#diff-2d01836e6c0329cf2b516efb9b407661R249 |
| 07:25 |
est31 |
hmmmm, why do we need absolute indices here? |
| 07:26 |
hmmmm |
good question |
| 07:26 |
est31 |
lua_istable should work with it in theory |
| 07:27 |
est31 |
dunno bout the getstringfield_default, its minetest custom written |
| 07:27 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 07:27 |
hmmmm |
it seems like that's okay too |
| 07:27 |
hmmmm |
just to be safe i guess |
| 07:27 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, est31 what are your votes on "Mercury Rain" btw? |
| 07:28 |
est31 |
can you try whether it works without the manual setting? |
| 07:28 |
est31 |
err resolval* |
| 07:28 |
hmmmm |
i dunno RBA |
| 07:29 |
hmmmm |
adding music to the core? |
| 07:29 |
hmmmm |
that's such a subgame thing |
| 07:29 |
est31 |
my main concern too. |
| 07:29 |
RealBadAngel |
games can have own music |
| 07:29 |
RealBadAngel |
in the menu too |
| 07:29 |
celeron55 |
isn't "origin" a bit too common keyword to be used for that functionality as essentially a hidden field? i mean, some definition might want to have a coordinate origin or something |
| 07:29 |
est31 |
personally I like it, it also fits the main theme IMO, but perhaps more an mtgame thing. |
| 07:30 |
est31 |
there we dont have the large file problem |
| 07:30 |
RealBadAngel |
we are talkin now about main music title |
| 07:30 |
hmmmm |
I dunno, perhaps |
| 07:30 |
RealBadAngel |
1,5mb is a joke not an argument |
| 07:30 |
hmmmm |
are underscores reserved for special identifiers in lua or something? |
| 07:30 |
RealBadAngel |
on my phone i do have monthly 75gbs limit... |
| 07:30 |
hmmmm |
i can make it like |
| 07:30 |
hmmmm |
_mod_origin |
| 07:31 |
celeron55 |
well i think "mod_origin" would already be enough |
| 07:31 |
est31 |
origin_mod? |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
does anybody aside from RBA want music as part of the core? |
| 07:34 |
hmmmm |
just curious |
| 07:34 |
est31 |
this for example is something to ask in github |
| 07:35 |
est31 |
the people in question might not be online |
| 07:44 |
celeron55 |
by the way, is there any estimate about in what percentage of errors this reveals the mod being a problem compared to not having these changes? |
| 07:45 |
hmmmm |
100%, when you get LUA_ERRMEM or LUA_ERRERR |
| 07:46 |
est31 |
3037 looks good |
| 07:49 |
celeron55 |
i can't find issues other than the one i said |
| 07:50 |
est31 |
(except ofc my mostly nitpicky comments) |
| 07:50 |
est31 |
now, what about #3033 and #3034 |
| 07:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3033 -- Add count based unload limit for mapblocks by est31 |
| 07:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3034 -- Fix Lua PcgRandom by est31 |
| 07:51 |
hmmmm |
wait no that breaks it |
| 07:51 |
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| 07:52 |
hmmmm |
or does it |
| 07:52 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm, RealBadAngel: i think adding music to game with a fallback to a core music could be good :) |
| 07:52 |
hmmmm |
est31: does it pass the unit tests with that commit? |
| 07:53 |
nrzkt |
if file games/<gamename>/mainmusic.ogg => play it, else play sounds/mainmusic.ogg ? |
| 07:53 |
est31 |
hmmmm, pcgrandom doesnt have unit tests |
| 07:53 |
est31 |
but I can try |
| 07:53 |
hmmmm |
are you sure |
| 07:55 |
hmmmm |
so if rng_max is 0xFFFFFFFF and bound is 4, then rng_max % bound == 3, 0xFFFFFFFF - 3 = 0xFFFFFFFC |
| 07:55 |
kaeza |
I personally think that adding a 1.5M BINARY file to the repo is bad. maybe that should be made a separate DL? |
| 07:55 |
hmmmm |
but 4 is a multiple of 0x100000000 |
| 07:56 |
hmmmm |
was PcgRandom::range() flawed to begin with? |
| 07:56 |
hmmmm |
oh no, < |
| 07:56 |
Calinou |
kaeza, we already have binary files in our main Git repo, it's no problem |
| 07:56 |
est31 |
hmmmm, it was |
| 07:56 |
hmmmm |
no, it's fine |
| 07:56 |
Calinou |
this is not World of Padman, don't make it hard for people to listen to your music |
| 07:56 |
est31 |
::range(min, max) surely way |
| 07:56 |
est31 |
was* |
| 07:56 |
hmmmm |
how? |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
see commit msg |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/fb108317376d966a2299790e65c29ca88123f08e |
| 07:57 |
hmmmm |
all that other stuff is unnecessary |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
it creates a crash if you call range(minimal value for s32, maximal value for s32) |
| 07:57 |
celeron55 |
about #3033: what about making the limit depend on the view distance? |
| 07:57 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 07:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3033 -- Add count based unload limit for mapblocks by est31 |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
hmmmm, yes the actual fix is only for two lines |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
please get rid of that other stuff |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
i mean, 1000 is going to limit high view distances and there's no GUI setting for it |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
not only is it unnecessary, but it breaks things |
| 07:58 |
est31 |
celeron55, think about teleporting back and forth between house and mine |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
and there are PcgRandom tests by the way, check out src/unittests/test_random.cpp |
| 07:58 |
est31 |
hmmmm, it breaks nothing |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
[03:55 AM] <hmmmm> so if rng_max is 0xFFFFFFFF and bound is 4, then rng_max % bound == 3, 0xFFFFFFFF - 3 = 0xFFFFFFFC |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
est31: think about that... why? |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
celeron55, thats a common use case |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
and it doesnt limit view range btw |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
it only deletes unused blocks |
| 07:59 |
hmmmm |
blocks distant from the player at a given time are not necessarily unused blocks |
| 08:00 |
est31 |
unused blocks are blocks that we didnt use for rendering due to view range/view direction considerations |
| 08:00 |
hmmmm |
this removes the least recently used blocks |
| 08:00 |
celeron55 |
oh, if it doesn't affect used blocks then it's fine |
| 08:00 |
hmmmm |
above the threshhold |
| 08:00 |
celeron55 |
yes i know how the unused block thing works |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:00 |
celeron55 |
...i should because i made it, lol |
| 08:00 |
est31 |
:) |
| 08:01 |
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| 08:02 |
est31 |
so 0xFFFFFFFC is divideable through bound, no? |
| 08:02 |
est31 |
thats all we require |
| 08:02 |
hmmmm |
yes but |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
a value which is as large as possible, and divideable through bound |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
you're rejecting 4 values within the range now that you don't actually need to |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
note, functionally the old implementation doesnt have problems |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
but its a - hack |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
how so |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
and it is inconsistent |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
if you reject values, that changes the output of the RNG because now next() is called a different number of times |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
look ar the old assignment for threshold: - bound % bound |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
at* |
| 08:04 |
hmmmm |
and what of it? |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
inconsistent in the sense that the comment doesnt match behaviour |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
you write that you drop values above a threshold |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
but you actually drop them below it |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
other option: perhaps I only fix the comment? |
| 08:05 |
hmmmm |
so why not change the comment instead of the code |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
I've thought its clearer this way |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
more understandable |
| 08:05 |
hmmmm |
especially seeing as how changing the code modifies the output (not necessarily fairness, i think) of the rng |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
thats an argument |
| 08:06 |
hmmmm |
if you did ./bin/minetest --run-unittests there's a chance it might fail :) |
| 08:06 |
est31 |
the buildbot usually does this |
| 08:07 |
est31 |
and there is a green symbol |
| 08:07 |
hmmmm |
are you sure it does |
| 08:08 |
est31 |
well, I gonna add unittests for the old crash reason, and change only the comments |
| 08:08 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/util/travis/script.sh#L16 |
| 08:08 |
est31 |
hmmmm, ^ |
| 08:08 |
hmmmm |
oh dear |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
does that not exit 1 if the unit tests fail? |
| 08:09 |
hmmmm |
ah okay, it abort()s |
| 08:09 |
hmmmm |
i thought i might've changed it on accident |
| 08:10 |
est31 |
https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/jobs/75127489#L705 |
| 08:11 |
kahrl |
well, the unit tests probably don't call the RNG enough times to get a rejected value |
| 08:11 |
hmmmm |
yeah it's probably a good idea to add a unit test for the crashing input |
| 08:12 |
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| 08:12 |
est31 |
the problems aren't rejected values here, the problem is when the range is so large that it creates an u32 overflow |
| 08:12 |
hmmmm |
you might be confusing something |
| 08:13 |
est31 |
ah |
| 08:13 |
hmmmm |
we totally understand the cause of the crash |
| 08:13 |
est31 |
ok |
| 08:13 |
hmmmm |
that's not the concern |
| 08:13 |
hmmmm |
that's fixed with two lines of code |
| 08:13 |
est31 |
yea |
| 08:14 |
est31 |
I don't even really know what happens with the "u32 threshhold = -bound % bound;" code |
| 08:14 |
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ThatGraemeGuy joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:14 |
est31 |
I just suspect that the explanation "In our example, threshhold == 3 - (3 % 3) == 3, so reject 3, thus |
| 08:14 |
est31 |
making the range 3 with no bias." is wrong |
| 08:15 |
hmmmm |
i might've made a typo |
| 08:17 |
RealBadAngel |
im back |
| 08:18 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm, I'd like dynamic atmospheric music, but not sure on mainmenu music |
| 08:18 |
rubenwardy |
mainmenu music should follow ingame music |
| 08:18 |
rubenwardy |
dynamic atmospheric music - changes depending on what the player does |
| 08:19 |
rubenwardy |
client side ambient sounds would be cool, too |
| 08:19 |
|
SopaXT joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:20 |
RealBadAngel |
rubenwardy, all that we already have |
| 08:20 |
RealBadAngel |
we are talking now about lack of files for engine and the games in main menu |
| 08:20 |
RealBadAngel |
see what my commit does |
| 08:20 |
RealBadAngel |
it just adds missing media file |
| 08:21 |
RealBadAngel |
and its fucking missing since a yr or something like that |
| 08:21 |
rubenwardy |
We already have dynamic atmospheric music, that changes depending on whether the player is mining, or building etc? |
| 08:21 |
RealBadAngel |
yup |
| 08:22 |
RealBadAngel |
i guess you dont know all the aviable mods for mt just :P |
| 08:22 |
rubenwardy |
what about client side ambient sounds (water, leaves, etc) |
| 08:22 |
RealBadAngel |
its called ambient mod |
| 08:22 |
rubenwardy |
slow |
| 08:23 |
RealBadAngel |
you know why it can be called slow? |
| 08:23 |
RealBadAngel |
because of c55's and others stating that sounds are too "heavy" |
| 08:24 |
RealBadAngel |
since always sounds can be stored just client side |
| 08:24 |
RealBadAngel |
and invoked from /sounds without a cache |
| 08:24 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a general rule |
| 08:25 |
RealBadAngel |
but it looks like (sounds like?) im the only one dev that have ears |
| 08:25 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not talking about downloading the sounds, I'm talking about telling the client to play sounds |
| 08:26 |
RealBadAngel |
write a better mod |
| 08:26 |
rubenwardy |
testing the ambient mods now |
| 08:29 |
est31 |
ok, updated the pr |
| 08:29 |
est31 |
kahrl, does it look good? |
| 08:29 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, yes or no please |
| 08:30 |
est31 |
its best place is a custom subgame |
| 08:30 |
rubenwardy |
The problems with the mod is that sounds just stop after you walk away from them, rather than fading out. When walking in water, the sound isn't proportional to speed. Non-essential effects like this should be done on the client side before waiting for server side reconciliation. |
| 08:30 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, each game can have its own music still |
| 08:30 |
rubenwardy |
I might write a test mod to develop an algorithm and an API though. |
| 08:30 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest is for the deaf, I agree |
| 08:31 |
RealBadAngel |
we are talking about ENGINE music score |
| 08:31 |
RealBadAngel |
jesus, i wrote code to support that more than a yr ago |
| 08:31 |
est31 |
well, we have clouds, they are quite heavy to render too |
| 08:31 |
RealBadAngel |
are you really all DEAF? |
| 08:31 |
est31 |
so music wont be heavier |
| 08:32 |
RealBadAngel |
is that a +1? |
| 08:33 |
est31 |
its a neutral, +0 |
| 08:33 |
RealBadAngel |
do me a favor please |
| 08:33 |
|
deltib joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:34 |
RealBadAngel |
im figthin for the legend |
| 08:34 |
est31 |
lets just vote on github, every dev can place +1 or -1, as they want |
| 08:34 |
rubenwardy |
Please may I have a link to that music you were suggesting? Dark score or something? |
| 08:34 |
RealBadAngel |
the title that we will be proud of having for |
| 08:35 |
est31 |
rubenwardy, #3038 |
| 08:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3038 -- Add main menu music score - "Mercury Rain" by Skaven/FC by RealBadAngel |
| 08:36 |
kahrl |
est31: sorry I didn't follow the discussion enough to see if hmmmm's concerns were addressed |
| 08:36 |
est31 |
does it look good for you? |
| 08:36 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, your vote? |
| 08:36 |
est31 |
from my judgement, his concerns were addressed |
| 08:36 |
est31 |
the change is a 4 liner now |
| 08:37 |
est31 |
2 lines fix, 2 lines test |
| 08:37 |
est31 |
#3034 |
| 08:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3034 -- Fix Lua PcgRandom by est31 |
| 08:37 |
RealBadAngel |
my change is ZERO liner |
| 08:37 |
* RealBadAngel |
turns on speaker louder |
| 08:38 |
est31 |
hmmm's concerns were around additional changes to the range(bound) method |
| 08:39 |
est31 |
while I still don't see how it can have a different result than 0 for the threshold, but thats another bug, and not high prio. |
| 08:39 |
kahrl |
est31: ok yeah, looks good to me |
| 08:40 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I think music should be a subgame thing, too |
| 08:40 |
kahrl |
sorry ;) |
| 08:41 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, each subgame can have its own music, are you aware of that? |
| 08:41 |
kahrl |
yes |
| 08:41 |
RealBadAngel |
so why you deny engine to have its own? |
| 08:41 |
|
err404 joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:41 |
kahrl |
exactly because of that |
| 08:42 |
RealBadAngel |
youre putting mt in a same league as minesweeper is |
| 08:42 |
Amaz |
Where does the subgame music go? |
| 08:42 |
kahrl |
minesweeper did not support subgames last time I checked, no? |
| 08:43 |
RealBadAngel |
make a /sounds folder and put there main_menu.ogg |
| 08:43 |
Amaz |
Thanks! |
| 08:43 |
|
FR^2 joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:43 |
rubenwardy |
I like mercury rain, however it may be too metallic for some peoples ideas of Minetest |
| 08:44 |
RealBadAngel |
its a matter of taste |
| 08:44 |
RealBadAngel |
but one thing we do know |
| 08:44 |
est31 |
celeron55's compromise is a good one |
| 08:44 |
RealBadAngel |
this tune is about 20 yrs old |
| 08:44 |
est31 |
lets put it out, if people like it, we can continue its use |
| 08:44 |
RealBadAngel |
its made by the legendary composer |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
and is the legend |
| 08:45 |
est31 |
if people dont like it, we stop |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
we wont get anything more legendary than this one |
| 08:45 |
est31 |
and btw, does it really have to be 1.5 mb? |
| 08:45 |
est31 |
can't it be compressed somehow? |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
fuck |
| 08:45 |
ThatGraemeGuy |
will there be an option to disable menu music for those who don't care for it? |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
1,5mb? |
| 08:46 |
RealBadAngel |
who the fuck cares about 1,5mb???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 08:46 |
RealBadAngel |
are you insane? |
| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
est31: if we want to test it without having the overhead of making a proper media repository now, i guess we could make a recommendation for packagers to package that track for the upcoming version |
| 08:46 |
est31 |
good idea |
| 08:47 |
est31 |
just try to convince blockmen xD |
| 08:47 |
rubenwardy |
why can only sounds connected to objects can be looped |
| 08:47 |
kahrl |
Please don't spam so many question marks. They drain my volume limit |
| 08:47 |
rubenwardy |
do sounds not return an id to control them? |
| 08:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i put them here on purpose |
| 08:48 |
est31 |
haha kahrl you are at drosselkom ? |
| 08:48 |
RealBadAngel |
1,5 mb size is a joke |
| 08:48 |
kahrl |
hehe no I switched off of it ;) |
| 08:48 |
rubenwardy |
Bundle it with 0.4.13, count how many people complain |
| 08:49 |
rubenwardy |
or 0.4.13-RC2, if it exists |
| 08:49 |
celeron55 |
i'm starting to think testing it that way is a good idea |
| 08:49 |
est31 |
can we make it download during the build process? |
| 08:50 |
est31 |
if there --> dont do anything |
| 08:50 |
est31 |
if not there --> download |
| 08:50 |
est31 |
no additional dependencies like git annex needed |
| 08:50 |
celeron55 |
does windows have a command line download utility? |
| 08:50 |
RealBadAngel |
excuse me guys, what kind of connections are you using? |
| 08:50 |
RealBadAngel |
dial up? |
| 08:51 |
Calinou |
there are Windows ports of curl |
| 08:51 |
Calinou |
and maybe even aria2 (has BitTorrent support) |
| 08:51 |
kahrl |
I don't like adding this to the build |
| 08:51 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: the music track will probably have to be changed roughly once per release in the worst case, which makes up a lot in the long run |
| 08:51 |
RealBadAngel |
your problems are just fun in days when listening to the music is just launching youtbe |
| 08:51 |
kahrl |
it makes the build nondeterministic, what if the network is having problems? |
| 08:52 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: pre-installed on the system, i mean |
| 08:52 |
rubenwardy |
cmake? |
| 08:52 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, thats what you think. you dont have any artistic taste. youre technican coder |
| 08:52 |
rubenwardy |
or using CURL with C++? |
| 08:52 |
rubenwardy |
bit low |
| 08:52 |
est31 |
ah I remember now, I've heard debian crowd makes builds on offline machines |
| 08:53 |
celeron55 |
kahrl: that's an issue, yes; altough many software does that these days |
| 08:53 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, that was not an insult. its just my observation |
| 08:53 |
est31 |
we have curl already, rubenwardy's idea is good too |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:54 |
est31 |
it can even be scripted from mainmenu lua if im not wrong |
| 08:54 |
rubenwardy |
problem is downloading arbitary files from the internet at a subgames request |
| 08:54 |
est31 |
its not a subgame here |
| 08:54 |
est31 |
but engine |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on |
| 08:54 |
rubenwardy |
wat |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
engine and subgame can have own ones |
| 08:55 |
RealBadAngel |
we are talkin now about missing media files for all the cases |
| 08:55 |
RealBadAngel |
you have all missed the code for that |
| 08:55 |
celeron55 |
i guess the cleanest option would probably be having a separate repo for engine media that the build system can utilize if it is downloaded into a subdirectory of the engine prior to building the engine - the use of which would be recommended but optional |
| 08:55 |
RealBadAngel |
no wonder, it was yrs ago |
| 08:56 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, that will effectively end up with incomplete builds |
| 08:56 |
celeron55 |
then you could make functional builds of the engine without the bloated media repository if you want, and the media repository could be as big as we care to make it |
| 08:57 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I wouldn't call it incomplete if it is missing optional stuff |
| 08:57 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, are you using a dial up or not? |
| 08:57 |
RealBadAngel |
what is your connection, PLEASE |
| 08:57 |
est31 |
we should have an unified setup for users |
| 08:57 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: you already have to build a game with the engine to make it useful; having an optional engine media repo is nothing compared to that |
| 08:57 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, this is not about connections |
| 08:57 |
est31 |
this is about adding files permanently to the size |
| 08:58 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:58 |
est31 |
if we change the music every release, and we had it from the beginning, we had a three times as large repo |
| 08:58 |
RealBadAngel |
youre guys all serious about the size? |
| 08:58 |
RealBadAngel |
i am adding a few megabytes for heightmaps |
| 08:59 |
est31 |
thats inside minetest_game |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
like 0.25 each one |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
bullshit |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
its not Z80 era |
| 08:59 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
i feel now like a moron |
| 09:00 |
kilbith |
a side-note about bloated media, this commit has added 4 MB (!) of uneeded fonts already : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/dceb9f7d6058785cf60d9dbcc8eecdcee1053412 |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
demanding nowadays game to have music |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
what an idiot i am |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
because folks wont be able to download 1,5mb |
| 09:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i feel so sorry that i will hit a wall at least 1,5kk times |
| 09:01 |
RealBadAngel |
starting now |
| 09:01 |
rubenwardy |
also: sound reflection, refraction, absorbtion |
| 09:01 |
rubenwardy |
I want sound to go dimmer if behind a wall |
| 09:01 |
est31 |
hah, rubenwardy we dont do this for light already |
| 09:01 |
rubenwardy |
I feel like working on this |
| 09:01 |
RealBadAngel |
rubenwardy, are you sure u cant have this? |
| 09:02 |
RealBadAngel |
theres an opensource lib that does it all |
| 09:02 |
RealBadAngel |
but as usual we CANT have it merged |
| 09:02 |
RealBadAngel |
jarheads |
| 09:02 |
RealBadAngel |
:P |
| 09:02 |
rubenwardy |
the suspense is killing me |
| 09:02 |
rubenwardy |
opensparelib |
| 09:02 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: i know of that and it is painful |
| 09:02 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: i wasn't looking when that happened |
| 09:02 |
rubenwardy |
it's fine to add dependencies, just as optional |
| 09:03 |
Calinou |
why do we use bitmap fonts in 2015? :-) |
| 09:03 |
est31 |
^ |
| 09:03 |
est31 |
my opinion to this too |
| 09:03 |
kilbith |
i knew you were complaing about this, c55 |
| 09:03 |
kilbith |
complaining* |
| 09:03 |
rubenwardy |
*openspatiallib |
| 09:03 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, 2015 is too soon for a bitmap font. you have to wait till another century |
| 09:03 |
rubenwardy |
What's the library you're thinking of called, RealBadAngel? |
| 09:04 |
celeron55 |
we should have a check in CI that fails the build if it contains files larger than 100kB because they are just wrong |
| 09:04 |
rubenwardy |
in Minetest yes |
| 09:04 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, dont make yourself an idiot |
| 09:04 |
rubenwardy |
imo it shouldn't provide too many resources, although: fallbacks |
| 09:04 |
RealBadAngel |
we are already using files way larger |
| 09:05 |
RealBadAngel |
youre just outdated |
| 09:05 |
kilbith |
otherwise agreed, music should belongs to a subgame only |
| 09:05 |
kilbith |
sorry RBA |
| 09:05 |
celeron55 |
at this rate i'm starting to feel i have to fork minetest and restart the repo to make things sane in the long term |
| 09:06 |
rubenwardy |
I have a friend with an 100 KBps connection |
| 09:06 |
RealBadAngel |
they are living on Mars? |
| 09:06 |
celeron55 |
and RBA won't be approved to be a developer on that repo |
| 09:06 |
rubenwardy |
nope, rural England |
| 09:06 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 09:06 |
kilbith |
you don't need to fork c55, it's your project |
| 09:06 |
rubenwardy |
I have 12 Mbps on a good day |
| 09:07 |
RealBadAngel |
nah, im going to make my own fork then |
| 09:07 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: well, a fork is both a technical and a political term |
| 09:07 |
rubenwardy |
don't be silly about it though |
| 09:07 |
kilbith |
you do decide whatever you want under your own roof |
| 09:07 |
RealBadAngel |
this way im saying goodbye to all of you guys |
| 09:07 |
RealBadAngel |
that was the final limit |
| 09:08 |
Calinou |
maybe RealBadAngel should fork Minetest, or start his own project |
| 09:08 |
Calinou |
we have to care about the legacy |
| 09:08 |
Calinou |
but maybe you don't |
| 09:08 |
RealBadAngel |
i was testing you with the music |
| 09:08 |
RealBadAngel |
waited for that for more than a year |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
please somebody take away my push rights |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont want them |
| 09:09 |
rubenwardy |
I think that you're being irrational, RealBadAngel. Yes we need music in Minetest, but it isn't important enough to quit over |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
i am leaving |
| 09:09 |
rubenwardy |
Also, I think ingame music over main menu music |
| 09:09 |
celeron55 |
oh... well i certainly can |
| 09:09 |
rubenwardy |
although main menu music is good |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
do it |
| 09:10 |
rubenwardy |
I'm working on an environmental sounds mod with LVM |
| 09:11 |
RealBadAngel |
rubenwardy, im not irrational. i am consequent. i do have a goal. |
| 09:12 |
RealBadAngel |
you all dont like my goals? so im leaving |
| 09:12 |
rubenwardy |
I like your goals |
| 09:12 |
RealBadAngel |
simple as that |
| 09:12 |
rubenwardy |
Your commits aren't perfect, nobodys' are |
| 09:12 |
kilbith |
we don't like *one* of your goals at least |
| 09:13 |
Calinou |
this isn't an AAA game, we can't afford everyone to have a reliable high-speed connection |
| 09:13 |
Calinou |
some of our players play on mobile networks |
| 09:13 |
rubenwardy |
However ingame music should come before main menu music imo (but that shouldn't stop it) |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
well i like the goal of having music in minetest, but the way you are trying to do it is technically wrong and would have long-term consequences that i do not want |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
you aren't responsible for the long term consequences |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
i am |
| 09:13 |
rubenwardy |
git isn't meant for large files, really |
| 09:13 |
kilbith |
also people may especially don't like black mailing and no-compromise spirit |
| 09:13 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou: it should be possible to opt-out some how |
| 09:14 |
rubenwardy |
main menu music is on Minetest download, not on server connect |
| 09:14 |
Calinou |
have you looked at git-lfs? |
| 09:14 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, this is blackmail |
| 09:14 |
est31 |
kilbith, good point |
| 09:14 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou, isn't it paid for? |
| 09:14 |
Calinou |
https://git-lfs.github.com/ |
| 09:14 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, my phone limit is 75gbs, just rethink your arument |
| 09:15 |
Calinou |
my SSD is 256 GB "only" and there's only 25 GB left... |
| 09:15 |
Calinou |
I'd rather not have repositories grow too large |
| 09:15 |
rubenwardy |
RealBadAngel, that's limit not speed |
| 09:15 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou: it is just a few MB. But those do add up. |
| 09:16 |
Calinou |
why don't we add music to minetest_game instead? |
| 09:16 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: does there exist an open source production-ready git-lfs server? |
| 09:16 |
celeron55 |
seems like only proprietary ones exist |
| 09:16 |
celeron55 |
hmm gitlab maybe |
| 09:16 |
Calinou |
oh, github.com doesn't support it "yet" |
| 09:17 |
Calinou |
they say it's coming soon, but has been for 6 months |
| 09:17 |
celeron55 |
wait no gitlab is paid |
| 09:17 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, games can add the scores too |
| 09:17 |
est31 |
gitlab is free no? |
| 09:17 |
RealBadAngel |
each game can |
| 09:17 |
est31 |
as in beer and as in freedom |
| 09:17 |
Calinou |
GitLab CE is gratis and libre, GitLab.com is just gratis |
| 09:17 |
Calinou |
(it runs an hybrid CE-EE installation) |
| 09:18 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway its not anylonger my concern |
| 09:18 |
est31 |
we can ask github for early access |
| 09:18 |
RealBadAngel |
i will credit all you guys in my releases |
| 09:18 |
est31 |
months ago they asked me every time I've logged in |
| 09:18 |
RealBadAngel |
but im going different way |
| 09:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i want the game to shine and rock |
| 09:19 |
RealBadAngel |
and i will do that |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55 can stick to intel 945 and dial up |
| 09:20 |
celeron55 |
i simply don't understand why you couldn't implement a way for the main menu to play menu music from subgames |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
rotfl |
| 09:20 |
celeron55 |
it would be clean and very functional |
| 09:20 |
|
nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:20 |
celeron55 |
everyone would like it |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
it is implemented you fool |
| 09:20 |
est31 |
there is one AFAIK already |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
since a yr |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
or even more |
| 09:20 |
|
nore_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:21 |
celeron55 |
...umm... why are we discussing this at all then? |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
youre showing yourself as a dumb |
| 09:21 |
|
nore_ left #minetest-dev |
| 09:21 |
celeron55 |
this just got much weirder |
| 09:21 |
rubenwardy |
RealBadAngel, what sound library were you talking about? |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
you dont know even what code allows |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
i am adding now just missing media files |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
code is here |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
for core and the subgames |
| 09:22 |
RealBadAngel |
youre just making yourself a laughing figure celeron55 |
| 09:22 |
RealBadAngel |
sorry |
| 09:22 |
RealBadAngel |
you keep saying no just to say no |
| 09:22 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, why is it so important to be in the engine? |
| 09:23 |
celeron55 |
when has main menu music provided by subgames been implemented and where is it documented? |
| 09:23 |
est31 |
it can me in mtgame too |
| 09:23 |
celeron55 |
i can't find it |
| 09:23 |
RealBadAngel |
beacuse players do have ears? |
| 09:23 |
kahrl |
why do I have the feeling that RBA wanted to leave anyway and needed an excuse to do so |
| 09:23 |
RealBadAngel |
its pretty common for earhtlings too |
| 09:23 |
RealBadAngel |
if you dont have ears? i just can say im sorry to HEAR that |
| 09:24 |
rubenwardy |
I think everyone just needs to calm down :P |
| 09:24 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, oh rly? |
| 09:24 |
RealBadAngel |
one yr of trying to push a legend into core is not enough? |
| 09:25 |
RealBadAngel |
whatever |
| 09:25 |
celeron55 |
this is ridiculous, all i have been asking for the past 10 minutes has been information and RBA is just raging |
| 09:25 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont make proller mistakes |
| 09:25 |
kilbith |
i don't think we cares who's the one who made the music |
| 09:26 |
RealBadAngel |
its not really important. but that could be our added value |
| 09:26 |
est31 |
celeron55, I think its core.sound_play("main_menu", true) in builtin/mainmenu/init.lua |
| 09:26 |
est31 |
added by commit c3984569 |
| 09:26 |
est31 |
by sapier |
| 09:26 |
RealBadAngel |
having legendary music score for our main title |
| 09:27 |
RealBadAngel |
but others do piss on the scores at all |
| 09:28 |
RealBadAngel |
demoscene therm doesnt mean anything for youngsters like celeron55 or hmmm |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
est31: but... no game is loaded at that point, so it won't play anything from any subgame |
| 09:28 |
RealBadAngel |
theyere just techicans, not the artists |
| 09:28 |
RealBadAngel |
they will always care more bout naming or tabs |
| 09:28 |
RealBadAngel |
not the content |
| 09:29 |
RealBadAngel |
under such leaders game will die |
| 09:29 |
celeron55 |
est31: i think i might feel like implementing this then |
| 09:29 |
RealBadAngel |
being perfect eventually |
| 09:29 |
est31 |
ok celeron55 |
| 09:30 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, are you really sure it is already implemented for subgames? |
| 09:30 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 09:30 |
RealBadAngel |
each game can support own music |
| 09:31 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont remember anybody changing that code |
| 09:31 |
RealBadAngel |
it was designed so on PilzAdam's request |
| 09:33 |
Amaz |
RBA, it doesn't seem to work for me... I followed the instructions you gave me above, but nothing plays in the menu... |
| 09:33 |
Amaz |
However, a sounds folder in .minetest works fine. |
| 09:34 |
RealBadAngel |
you should make also next /sounds folder in your game folder |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
we do miss such folders yet |
| 09:35 |
est31 |
pushing #3034 then |
| 09:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3034 -- Fix Lua PcgRandom by est31 |
| 09:35 |
Amaz |
The structure is like this <game>/sounds/main_menu.ogg |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
but engine checks for that |
| 09:36 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme check that again, this code is really yrs old |
| 09:36 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on |
| 09:37 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: what you said is not true; playing subgame sounds in the menu has never been supported |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, please gimme a few minutes, testing that |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i surely coded that feature |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
i went through the related parts in version control history and what you are describing is nowhere to be found |
| 09:39 |
RealBadAngel |
im just not sure if it was merged |
| 09:39 |
est31 |
there is #1651 |
| 09:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1651 -- Menu music (WIP) by RealBadAngel |
| 09:40 |
celeron55 |
oh |
| 09:40 |
celeron55 |
yes, are you referring to that? |
| 09:40 |
RealBadAngel |
a sec |
| 09:41 |
RealBadAngel |
need to reboot. brb |
| 09:43 |
celeron55 |
that's not even bad, given that the ogg file is removed |
| 09:43 |
TBC_x |
Why not use midi for some sounds? |
| 09:43 |
celeron55 |
altough it breaks some functionality in guiEngine.cpp which should be fixed before that is merged, if it will be |
| 09:48 |
est31 |
#3039 |
| 09:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3039 -- Is the threshold in PcgRandom::range(bound) doing its job? |
| 09:49 |
|
Darcidride joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:54 |
celeron55 |
TBC_x: it's not really a modern way of doing things and could put players and developer off; also platform support might suck or it would involve a big library and a big sound library |
| 09:55 |
kahrl |
est31: bound is unsigned in PcgRandom but signed in your test |
| 09:56 |
rubenwardy |
how to credit enough git user? I need their email address, iirc there's something like username github.com |
| 09:57 |
est31 |
ah I see |
| 09:58 |
Amaz |
rubenwardy, do you mean <user>@users.noreply.github.com ? |
| 09:58 |
rubenwardy |
thanks |
| 09:58 |
Amaz |
No problem. |
| 10:01 |
|
Player_2 joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:01 |
|
RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:01 |
RealBadAngel |
back |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, yes, the code for subgames was not it |
| 10:03 |
RealBadAngel |
but its trivial |
| 10:04 |
RealBadAngel |
18 september 2014.... |
| 10:08 |
rubenwardy |
Amaz, didn't work: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest_web_panel/commits/master |
| 10:09 |
RealBadAngel |
not a week for the commit to be exactly 1 yrs old.... |
| 10:10 |
rubenwardy |
september, not auguest |
| 10:10 |
RealBadAngel |
ouch |
| 10:18 |
kilbith |
hey wtf |
| 10:18 |
kilbith |
RBA is no longer core-dev ?? |
| 10:18 |
kilbith |
https://github.com/orgs/minetest/people |
| 10:20 |
est31 |
he resigned |
| 10:20 |
rubenwardy |
kilbith, read the logs |
| 10:20 |
rubenwardy |
Over main menu music |
| 10:20 |
est31 |
sadly :/ |
| 10:20 |
kilbith |
i thought it was just a wild reaction |
| 10:20 |
est31 |
me too |
| 10:20 |
kilbith |
nothing serious |
| 10:21 |
kilbith |
RBA, don't behave like a kid doing a tantrum in a supermarket |
| 10:21 |
kilbith |
you're more valuable than that |
| 10:21 |
est31 |
^ |
| 10:22 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 10:27 |
|
Routh joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:37 |
RealBadAngel |
yes i have gived up |
| 10:37 |
RealBadAngel |
but not with the project at all |
| 10:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i have refused to work with stubborns and deaf folks like c55 |
| 10:38 |
est31 |
Do you want to code simple shaders? |
| 10:38 |
RealBadAngel |
fork me :P |
| 10:38 |
est31 |
just make sure to not change the license |
| 10:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i know what i should code next |
| 10:38 |
kilbith |
those stubborns obstruct your leaks and improve your code... |
| 10:39 |
RealBadAngel |
i said "i wont follow prollers way" |
| 10:39 |
RealBadAngel |
sure |
| 10:39 |
RealBadAngel |
those stubborns could be able to code something working like this in the first place |
| 10:39 |
RealBadAngel |
but they are not able to |
| 10:40 |
kilbith |
be sure of what you're doing |
| 10:40 |
RealBadAngel |
only thing is that can look for leaks |
| 10:40 |
RealBadAngel |
and delete too much |
| 10:40 |
kilbith |
you may not have quality-reviews in your fork |
| 10:40 |
RealBadAngel |
and break funcionality |
| 10:40 |
RealBadAngel |
im over 40yrs old, was a demoscene coder at age of 16 |
| 10:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont need reviews |
| 10:41 |
RealBadAngel |
what counts is the effect |
| 10:41 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 10:41 |
rubenwardy |
it may be buggy and can only be run for a few hours, but look at these screenshots! |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
if i made a leak, im sorry, i will fix that |
| 10:42 |
est31 |
or require 100% CPU |
| 10:42 |
est31 |
but on intel, its only 60%! |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
ha ha ha |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
trash that lib |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
im not responisble for cores usage |
| 10:43 |
RealBadAngel |
some1 hired jthread and is living without problems |
| 10:43 |
RealBadAngel |
because its not visible :P |
| 10:44 |
RealBadAngel |
funny thing is that it works ok with an intel and nvidia |
| 10:44 |
RealBadAngel |
i suggest checking bank accounts because of that :P |
| 10:45 |
RealBadAngel |
who knows how much c55 gets for the game working ok only with that hw |
| 10:47 |
RealBadAngel |
nvm |
| 10:48 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, shall i close my PR's now? |
| 10:48 |
rubenwardy |
why? |
| 10:49 |
celeron55 |
of course not |
| 10:52 |
celeron55 |
if you aren't a core developer, you have all the rights to be a contributor like anyone else |
| 10:55 |
Taoki |
Ugh... RBA is not a core dev any more? Great >_> |
| 10:56 |
Taoki |
He's one of the best devs around. Not that others aren't good of course, just my opinion. |
| 10:56 |
kilbith |
RBA, also are you able to manage a website/community ? |
| 10:56 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Really hope you won't leave the project or anything, please. |
| 10:59 |
RealBadAngel |
i did |
| 10:59 |
RealBadAngel |
talk to the deaf guys |
| 11:00 |
RealBadAngel |
blind ones would work propably too |
| 11:00 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre making a joint fighter project, not a game :P |
| 11:01 |
Taoki |
Really, don't *sigh* |
| 11:01 |
Taoki |
Will you make a fork of your own at least?! |
| 11:01 |
Taoki |
Seriously, you did some great features for this project. It's only hurting the community and project that you're leaving over an argue with other devs. |
| 11:05 |
Taoki |
I agree with you and the way you do things BTW, and likely others as well. I know some devs want a different direction however. Not sure exactly what my opinion on main menu music is exactly... depends how its implemented, I personally think it should be done through Lua but the menu LUA API should be more flexible to allow it more easily. |
| 11:06 |
nrzkt |
C++ is as flexible as Lua for the menu sounds, it's a single specific code. |
| 11:06 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Really though, please think about it. This is just hurting the project and community. People have gotten past arguments in dev teams this way... you and celeron55 can and should find some way to get along on things. Not right away but in the near future. |
| 11:07 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:07 |
Taoki |
nrzkt: I generally like seeing as much as possible done Lua side. In this case I'd like menu music being triggered from Lua personally. But the menu Lua code needs to be flexible enough for that. |
| 11:10 |
kaeza |
I don't understand what's the problem here. we have a framework to let games add their own menu BGM; we just don't want engine repo bloat |
| 11:12 |
Taoki |
kaeza: I don't either. Only that RealBadAngel can't get along with celeron55 and other devs. Now a good part of the fate of this project is unknown to me. |
| 11:13 |
Taoki |
I wonder if menu music is the only issue here. |
| 11:13 |
RealBadAngel |
minetest will be free to take anything i wil code |
| 11:13 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont make it a different license |
| 11:13 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: So you're starting a fork of your own at least? |
| 11:13 |
Taoki |
Like proller started Freeminer |
| 11:14 |
ThatGraemeGuy |
this is hardly the first epic ragequit in the history of collaborative projects, and it damn sure won't be the last |
| 11:15 |
Taoki |
ThatGraemeGuy: It still sucks. Minetest is one of the few FOSS projects lucky to have such activity and such a constant growth. Many have few developers and went down to only a few commits each year, with releases every 3 years. |
| 11:16 |
* Taoki |
also finds it funny how this coincides with justin having left the opensim project today |
| 11:17 |
kaeza |
RealBadAngel, did you bother to read? main menu code = yes, (relatively) big music file = no |
| 11:17 |
ThatGraemeGuy |
have you seen the amount of inane, petty bickering that goes on via github comments? this will keep happening, people will keep joining and quitting, the world will surely survive to see another day |
| 11:17 |
ThatGraemeGuy |
well eventually it won't, but it won't be as a result of all this soap opera bullshit |
| 11:17 |
Taoki |
ThatGraemeGuy: Still harms a great project and slows down its progress. |
| 11:17 |
kaeza |
and yes, 1.5M is big. think about what would happen if for X reason you have to replace the file |
| 11:18 |
Taoki |
I personally think games should define their own menu music. BUT, the MineTest engine and builtin scripts need to make that easy. |
| 11:18 |
Taoki |
I don't care about minetest_game as much, since it's clear that won't go too far. Mostly about the engine. And in this regard, I am a fan of leaving as much as possible Lua-side. But that's just me. |
| 11:24 |
RealBadAngel |
kaeza, 1,5 mb is 3 or 4 normal maps |
| 11:24 |
RealBadAngel |
it a fucking joke |
| 11:25 |
kilbith |
you'll be forced to nuke your normalmaps files btw |
| 11:25 |
RealBadAngel |
i saw yesterday a stick at food store |
| 11:25 |
RealBadAngel |
30gbs |
| 11:25 |
kilbith |
because if the textures change, that makes the normalmaps incompatible |
| 11:26 |
RealBadAngel |
costin as much as 10kg sack of potatoes |
| 11:26 |
kilbith |
in fact i'm sure paramat will do that |
| 11:27 |
RealBadAngel |
next one raisin the memory argument in front of me will get a smash with rotten banana |
| 11:28 |
rubenwardy |
1.5 MB isn't that much |
| 11:28 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont want to be counted as deaf and blind guys among doing Minecraft clone |
| 11:28 |
rubenwardy |
that's no the issue here |
| 11:28 |
rubenwardy |
*not |
| 11:29 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Anyway, if you really must make a fork, I certainly will be very interested in it. If possible however, please try to make a pull request for normal Minetest for every major change you make. Also to keep up with all other changes and imp[rovements in core Minetest, there are many good and useful ones being done constantly. |
| 11:29 |
RealBadAngel |
you can copy my code if you will ask for it |
| 11:29 |
RealBadAngel |
but certainly i wont answer any c55 questions |
| 11:29 |
RealBadAngel |
just because |
| 11:30 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Regarding menu music, I certainly do NOT think that a 1.5 MB music file is too big... I agree that part is silly. However: I agree that menu music should be a sub-game choice, and done in menu Lua. I prefer a lightweight engine as well in general. But of course it's up to you... just my own suggestion. |
| 11:30 |
RealBadAngel |
c55 feel free to cook yourself in your own sauce |
| 11:30 |
RealBadAngel |
and buildat :P |
| 11:30 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:31 |
Taoki |
To be honest, I like the way MT keeps itself lightweight like that. The 1.5MB file thing did take it too far however. |
| 11:31 |
RealBadAngel |
Taoki, c55 cannot allow 1,5mb at all |
| 11:31 |
RealBadAngel |
hes too poor |
| 11:31 |
Taoki |
I mean, as an idea. minetest_game is probably too simple to have menu music anyway. |
| 11:31 |
|
err404 joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:32 |
Taoki |
Eh... no need to bash on him I think. He has his own opinions... I disagree with many myself though. |
| 11:32 |
RealBadAngel |
is celeron55 finnish? |
| 11:32 |
RealBadAngel |
i just wonder which place on earth 1,5mb is that much |
| 11:33 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe we should all donate his goverment to let citizens use such big files |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
I disagree with Engine music. 1.5 MB isn't that much on it's own, but it adds up. |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
Also, no need to personal insults |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
*for |
| 11:33 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: The main problem with large files is caching I believe. A few months ago, Minetest still took 5 entire minutes to connect to a server online, which was horrible. Perhaps that's a reason for such concerns? |
| 11:33 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre not cached.... |
| 11:33 |
Taoki |
Yeah, no need to call c55 names RBA. |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
Taoki, mainmenu |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
not on server connection |
| 11:34 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre get from local first |
| 11:34 |
rubenwardy |
but yeah, that applied to large files generally |
| 11:34 |
Taoki |
Ah, yes... this is client side, sorry. |
| 11:34 |
Taoki |
The caching issue doesn't count. |
| 11:34 |
RealBadAngel |
even ambience mods can have all sounds files stored client side |
| 11:34 |
rubenwardy |
along with networking changes, we need better resource sending |
| 11:34 |
RealBadAngel |
without single need to send them |
| 11:34 |
Taoki |
Yes, resource sending is problematic. |
| 11:34 |
rubenwardy |
If I have 12 Mbps, why does Minetest take so long? |
| 11:35 |
Taoki |
Yep, know that feeling |
| 11:35 |
RealBadAngel |
sounds doesnt have to be sent |
| 11:35 |
rubenwardy |
(well, discounting server upload) |
| 11:35 |
RealBadAngel |
make a /sounds folder |
| 11:35 |
rubenwardy |
RealBadAngel, they should do in order to be fully flexible |
| 11:35 |
RealBadAngel |
put there main_menu.ogg |
| 11:35 |
|
est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:36 |
RealBadAngel |
if you want it to be sent then thats ok |
| 11:36 |
RealBadAngel |
im saying they can be pre packaged |
| 11:36 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 11:36 |
Taoki |
But anyway: As long asthe main menu music is triggered from Lua (coding this in C++ would be pointless and against the point), I agree we can certainly afford a main menu song. |
| 11:36 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats your problem not mine anymore |
| 11:36 |
est31 |
Taoki, the problem aren't large files |
| 11:37 |
RealBadAngel |
sorry im busy adding missing textures for minetest game |
| 11:37 |
est31 |
the problem are the tons of nodedefs, and the fact we load their data so inefficiently |
| 11:37 |
RealBadAngel |
est31 that is also your problem |
| 11:37 |
est31 |
part of it is thanks too irrlicht suckery |
| 11:37 |
RealBadAngel |
bye bye ;) |
| 11:37 |
rubenwardy |
Taoki, already is |
| 11:37 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, i didnt say its not my problem |
| 11:37 |
|
RealBadAngel left #minetest-dev |
| 11:38 |
kaeza |
teh fuck |
| 11:38 |
est31 |
sad he's gone |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
~seen Zeno` |
| 11:38 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: I saw Zeno` in #minetest-dev 4 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 39 seconds ago saying "basically you spat the numbers to stdout and piped them to whatever the silly thing is called and it'd rate it" |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
est31, insult him, he'll read the logs and come back immediately |
| 11:38 |
kilbith |
thinking that i gave him donations for continue his work.. |
| 11:38 |
est31 |
hah lol, only idiots do that rubenwardy. |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 11:39 |
est31 |
xD |
| 11:39 |
rubenwardy |
I was going to ask Zeno` about the progress on Irrlicht abstraction |
| 11:39 |
rubenwardy |
wait, can't we just switch to Antarctic pretty easily as it's an Irrlicht fork? |
| 11:40 |
est31 |
we should, I guess |
| 11:40 |
est31 |
but dunno if its generic enough |
| 11:40 |
rubenwardy |
some things may need to be changes |
| 11:40 |
est31 |
or just everything hacked to the use-case of STK |
| 11:40 |
rubenwardy |
and features utilised |
| 11:41 |
|
RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:41 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, please also remove my name from credits tab |
| 11:42 |
sfan5 |
you mean move it to "previous core devs" |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
do you want to be listed on previous core devs section? |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
or complete remove? |
| 11:42 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont want to be counted as a random deaf dev |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
previous deaf dev? |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
:) |
| 11:42 |
kilbith |
can't you just take 2-3 days for making such decision ? |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
^ |
| 11:42 |
Taoki |
^ |
| 11:43 |
RealBadAngel |
music code was 1 yrs old |
| 11:43 |
RealBadAngel |
i waited enough |
| 11:43 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: I think you're taking decisions while being angry now. This is not helpful. I too suggest taking abreak for the time being, doing something else for a few hours and such. |
| 11:43 |
RealBadAngel |
wanna live in stoneage? please, but without me |
| 11:44 |
Taoki |
It would also be nice if you could at least stay on this channel... |
| 11:44 |
RealBadAngel |
one fuckin YEAR is more than enough |
| 11:44 |
RealBadAngel |
im tired of begging to make the game nicer |
| 11:44 |
nrzkt |
RealBadAngel: bronze age, not stone age, please :D |
| 11:44 |
RealBadAngel |
let c55 cook in own sauce |
| 11:45 |
RealBadAngel |
im off, at last |
| 11:45 |
* nrzkt |
hope this is a bearnaise |
| 11:45 |
kaeza |
but my gfx card is from stone age :( |
| 11:45 |
kilbith |
you're sounding just vindictive and punitive |
| 11:45 |
kilbith |
that's all |
| 11:45 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have rights to be so |
| 11:45 |
RealBadAngel |
ive done a lot for this project |
| 11:46 |
est31 |
highly respected |
| 11:46 |
sfan5 |
why are all of you pushing to have him stay or having him rethink his decision |
| 11:46 |
kilbith |
"i'm married to my wife since 30 years, so i have rights to rape her" |
| 11:46 |
sfan5 |
trying to push him to do something we want won't make it any better |
| 11:46 |
RealBadAngel |
im not rapin any1 |
| 11:46 |
sfan5 |
if he wants to resign, let him |
| 11:47 |
est31 |
kilbith, your comparison is very very ugly |
| 11:47 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe just c55 bandwith and ears ;) |
| 11:47 |
rubenwardy |
Frankly I have had enough of this too |
| 11:47 |
RealBadAngel |
c55 and others are blockin many things |
| 11:47 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: I think all that me and others are saying is that you're very upset right now, legitimately or not. It's not healthy to take decisions in moods like this, because you can easily take wrong ones. |
| 11:48 |
est31 |
sfan5, I never asked hin to rethink his descision |
| 11:48 |
est31 |
him* |
| 11:48 |
Taoki |
I really suggest taking a break, then thinking how to figure things out. |
| 11:48 |
RealBadAngel |
we dont have circuits |
| 11:48 |
sfan5 |
est31: i adressed "all of you" not you specificually |
| 11:48 |
est31 |
just to do not in a rush |
| 11:48 |
Taoki |
There are greater problems that got solved, in software development and not only. This will be too in some way. |
| 11:49 |
RealBadAngel |
you will be granted to copy my solutions |
| 11:49 |
RealBadAngel |
im not cutting my roots |
| 11:50 |
Taoki |
I think it will be very important for both mainstream Minetest and your fork to continue sharing commits whenever possible |
| 11:50 |
RealBadAngel |
but what i will get will be the freedom to decide |
| 11:50 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have a consinstent vision how the game should look like |
| 11:50 |
Taoki |
We all do, I do too |
| 11:50 |
* VanessaE |
looks in |
| 11:50 |
RealBadAngel |
since years im doing the code in that direction |
| 11:51 |
est31 |
diversity is never bad |
| 11:51 |
Taoki |
est31: true |
| 11:51 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Your shaders are one of the best things in that direction as well (likely not the only one) |
| 11:51 |
RealBadAngel |
parallax code and heightmaps are the best example |
| 11:51 |
Taoki |
Yep |
| 11:51 |
Taoki |
I love Minetest a lot more thanks to these. |
| 11:51 |
RealBadAngel |
thats one of the elements of my vision |
| 11:52 |
RealBadAngel |
sadly, music is also an element of this |
| 11:52 |
RealBadAngel |
and for those who say: play it in your music player? |
| 11:52 |
RealBadAngel |
fuck off |
| 11:53 |
RealBadAngel |
im not a kid |
| 11:53 |
Taoki |
I don't think anyone would realistically suggest playing your menu music in a music player |
| 11:53 |
est31 |
this is taste |
| 11:53 |
RealBadAngel |
if you cannot aprreciate that the legend of the demoscene granted you rights for his music? |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
I'm in favor of main menu music, even that tune that RBA refers to. I'm fairly familiar with the artist in question. |
| 11:54 |
RealBadAngel |
youre just a bunch of lunatic morons |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
and bickering over 1.5 MB is just stupid. |
| 11:54 |
rubenwardy |
the circuit pull request had a few problems, and then went dead due to rebasing issued |
| 11:54 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, "random bunch of lunatics", please |
| 11:54 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: You really need to calm down for the time being. This isn't helping anyone right now. |
| 11:54 |
rubenwardy |
I can't see c55 blocking it |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
this may not be a AAA game, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to MAKE it one. |
| 11:54 |
RealBadAngel |
random bunch of deaf lunatics :P |
| 11:55 |
* ThatGraemeGuy |
signs "lol" |
| 11:55 |
RealBadAngel |
dont forget "farts" issue |
| 11:56 |
Taoki |
I'm disappointed if you're going to start insulting everyone now. I agree with your points, but this is bad now. |
| 11:56 |
RealBadAngel |
thats only one funny sound in minetest at all :P |
| 11:56 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2974 |
| 11:56 |
RealBadAngel |
Taoki, rly? blockmen yesterday called all my work shit |
| 11:56 |
rubenwardy |
#2974 |
| 11:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2974 -- Very fast repeating step sounds on entity collision |
| 11:57 |
Taoki |
And he did bad too then. Everyone should try to be civil about such issues. |
| 11:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i am still kind |
| 11:57 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest does have a sound problem, but main menu music doesn't solve that |
| 11:57 |
RealBadAngel |
what im doing is being sarcastic |
| 11:58 |
RealBadAngel |
rubenwardy, no need, your ears are safe |
| 11:58 |
Taoki |
You are insulting people directly now, by calling them lunatics for example. That's really bad, and I think you know better than that. That's why I think we seriously need to take a break for the time being. |
| 11:58 |
RealBadAngel |
this century your ears wont be raped by any legend ;) |
| 11:58 |
RealBadAngel |
Taoki, im one of the so called lunatics |
| 11:58 |
rubenwardy |
you're features are nice and your work is nice, however it tends to add memory leaks. |
| 11:59 |
RealBadAngel |
see credits tab |
| 11:59 |
rubenwardy |
"shit" is a bit of an exageration |
| 11:59 |
est31 |
Taoki, its a reference to a sentence on the minetest.net website |
| 11:59 |
Taoki |
Seriously... I don't want to start throwing critiques around myself now. But if there's one thing that always made me feel uneasy, for the years I've been around here, is the way many of the core developers like to... express themselves to put it lightly. |
| 11:59 |
RealBadAngel |
and shit is a reference to blockmen and hmmm |
| 12:00 |
rubenwardy |
You need to take criticism better :P |
| 12:00 |
Taoki |
I'm not saying this to imply that I think I am better myself. But although the code itself is good in my book, I do not get a feeling of professionalism here, compared to other projects. |
| 12:00 |
VanessaE |
Taoki: I agree, and I'm getting sick of it too. |
| 12:01 |
Taoki |
It's like the devs are grumpy people just waiting to get angry and jump at each other. |
| 12:01 |
est31 |
I don't think terms should be avoided just because there is a stupid rule obstructing your feelings |
| 12:01 |
est31 |
and people can often be very angry |
| 12:01 |
VanessaE |
when you try your damnedest to do something good and someone just insults it, you are not inclined to finish it, let alone improve it further. |
| 12:01 |
est31 |
but I try to not make it personal |
| 12:02 |
Taoki |
In early days (long ago when I girst joined the project), I got more or less hateful remarks from celeron55 myself. I was also a bit put off by seeing some attitudes from PilzAdam or hmmm on occasion. Now RealBadAngel, which I think is one of the nicest devs and also did some of the best code, rages and insults people here too. |
| 12:02 |
Taoki |
Seriously. If there's anything I think really sucks in this project, it's this. |
| 12:03 |
rubenwardy |
true |
| 12:03 |
Taoki |
Join a project like OpenSim, or even a shooter like Xonotic. Apart from some people, the devs are always nice and ready to help, many of them pretty professional in this line too. |
| 12:03 |
rubenwardy |
we need marriage therapy |
| 12:03 |
Taoki |
There isn't an atmosphere like this there. Mind you, users argue from time to time... it's still the internet after all. |
| 12:04 |
Taoki |
The only people I spoke a bit with who I don't at all feel disappointed by currently, are VanessaE and OldCoder. Might be more I'm missing... others I didn't talk to enough to know. |
| 12:07 |
Taoki |
RealBadAngel: Also, BTW. I'm in the credits tab too, and don't wish to be removed from it. Sorry if you also consider me a lunatic for that. |
| 12:11 |
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| 12:15 |
rubenwardy |
seriously, player:getpos()? |
| 12:19 |
celeron55 |
sounds like the first two-worded object API method 8) |
| 12:20 |
celeron55 |
from the first one of the nine commits each called "Scripting WIP" |
| 12:22 |
celeron55 |
it's legendary by now |
| 12:22 |
est31 |
ha lol |
| 12:23 |
est31 |
back then features were developed in the master branch |
| 12:23 |
celeron55 |
the day was 2011-11-12 and it was a glorious saturday |
| 12:23 |
est31 |
instead of being perfected as pr |
| 12:24 |
celeron55 |
that wasn't developed in the master branch; not even on github |
| 12:24 |
celeron55 |
it was developed on a private repo that i hosted for myself |
| 12:24 |
est31 |
when did minetest get published? |
| 12:25 |
celeron55 |
do you mean minetest 0.4? |
| 12:26 |
est31 |
ah you say you developed it on the private repo, then sent it to already existing github |
| 12:27 |
Taoki |
est31: I believe the project was first posted around 2010. I think I found it about an year after it went public. |
| 12:27 |
celeron55 |
0.3.0 was released on 2011-11-01 and 0.3.1 on 2011-11-09 |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
what about 0.2.x |
| 12:28 |
Taoki |
I still remember those days. We didn't even have a realtime day / night cycle... there were 3 sky textures and lighting modes for day / dusk and dawn / night :) |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
there were 0.2.x too |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
was* |
| 12:28 |
Taoki |
Nor sound. |
| 12:29 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: they happened too but they aren't interesting in this context |
| 12:31 |
celeron55 |
also fun fact: 0.0.2 and 0.2 were basically the same thing |
| 12:31 |
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| 12:31 |
celeron55 |
with bad luck we might be at 0.0.4 now, lol |
| 12:31 |
sfan5 |
0.0.4.13 |
| 12:31 |
est31 |
hah |
| 12:32 |
sfan5 |
"4th proof of concept" "13th revision" |
| 12:32 |
sfan5 |
"does it actually work?" "no" |
| 12:32 |
est31 |
lol |
| 12:32 |
sfan5 |
thats what i think of when i see 0.0.4.13 |
| 12:33 |
est31 |
suggestions |
| 12:33 |
est31 |
? |
| 12:33 |
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| 12:34 |
celeron55 |
anyway if rubenwardy's point was that the naming is inconsistent, i guess get_pos should be supported :P |
| 12:34 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 12:34 |
rubenwardy |
it definitely should |
| 12:34 |
est31 |
question: before or after the feature freeze? |
| 12:34 |
est31 |
I say after. |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
meh |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
better before so I can write my mods to use it |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
then again... |
| 12:36 |
sfan5 |
not an important change which means after the freeze |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
okay |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't bother me that much |
| 12:36 |
sfan5 |
"okay" |
| 12:36 |
sfan5 |
thats my opinion, if everyone else thinks the other way then it will be before the freeze ends |
| 12:39 |
celeron55 |
there's so little reason to care that i'm surprised anyone has any opinion about it |
| 12:41 |
rubenwardy |
It's inconsistent and made me have to check the docs |
| 12:42 |
rubenwardy |
Is it possible to use LuaVoxelManipulator to read nodes without starting mapgen? |
| 12:48 |
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| 12:57 |
kaeza |
what are you trying to do? |
| 12:58 |
rubenwardy |
ambient sounds but better |
| 12:58 |
rubenwardy |
ambient sounds has no concept of sound origin |
| 12:59 |
kaeza |
but you either play sound to a player, or to a specific position, in which case it's useless to play a sound if there's no player around |
| 12:59 |
rubenwardy |
I'm using it to prototype possible algorithms |
| 13:00 |
rubenwardy |
the code scans around the player and plays sounds in locations |
| 13:02 |
est31 |
you can use areastore perhaps |
| 13:03 |
rubenwardy |
hmmm |
| 13:03 |
rubenwardy |
that's a good idea |
| 14:01 |
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| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
does Minetest not support 3D sounds? |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
minetest.sound_play(def.presence, { |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
pos = {x=x, y=y, z=z}, |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
gain = def.presence.gain, |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
max_hear_distance = SCAN_RANGE |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
}) |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
oops |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
oh well, when I move around that position it just plays the same sound from the same direction |
| 15:27 |
Calinou |
is your sound file mono? |
| 15:27 |
Calinou |
it must be, in order for it to be positional |
| 15:28 |
rubenwardy |
1 sec |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
importing into audacity gives two channels |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
however they appear to both be the same |
| 15:32 |
Calinou |
then your sound isn't mono |
| 15:32 |
Calinou |
make it so :) |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
fixed |
| 15:33 |
rubenwardy |
that worked |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
wow |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> how to average a large body of water into a single source? |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> area store would be good, but there's the difficulty in populating it |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> as an inoptimal algorithm: for each water source which isn't part of an area, expand out until non water blocks are met then stop |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> https://github.com/rubenwardy/environment |
| 16:29 |
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| 20:50 |
paramat |
hi sfan5, please could you add your input to game#620 ? also see my last comment for possible changes |
| 20:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms WIP by paramat |
| 20:51 |
paramat |
argh just missed you again |
| 20:52 |
paramat |
will get to work on tweaking that |
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