| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
TBC_x |
that makes sence |
| 00:06 |
Routh |
This is weird. I've defined an alternate water block for a biome, and for some odd reason minetest is added a 1 block layer of water on top of the other liquid. |
| 00:07 |
|
est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:11 |
* VanessaE |
peeks in |
| 00:12 |
|
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| 00:12 |
VanessaE |
Routh: check your "dust" setting for the biome |
| 00:12 |
Routh |
VanessaE: Not set |
| 00:18 |
Routh |
Werid. I explicitly defined node_water_top with the same liquid and it worked. |
| 00:19 |
Routh |
Dunno if that is a bug with biome API or my liquid. |
| 00:19 |
paramat |
will look into it, might run your subgame to see |
| 00:21 |
Routh |
I think my liquids definition in moreliquids may be lacking, I need to review other liquid defs to see whats possible and what I may be missing. |
| 00:21 |
|
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| 00:21 |
Routh |
I know it doesn't drown you, seems I missed drowning = 1 |
| 00:26 |
Routh |
Oh, figured out what I did wrong. Doh. I left depth_water_top = 1 on the biome def when troublshooting, and it added water since node_water_top was left undefined. |
| 00:27 |
paramat |
aha =) |
| 00:31 |
VanessaE |
paramat: oh btw, moretrees now uses the default acacia nodes (and the pine ones too), in case you're curious. |
| 00:32 |
paramat |
good, the previous acacia leaves were ridiculous, didn't even tile |
| 00:33 |
|
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| 00:37 |
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| 01:07 |
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| 01:24 |
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| 01:25 |
paramat |
now pushing trivial #2947 |
| 01:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2947 -- Conf.example: Update mgv7 noise parameters by paramat |
| 01:30 |
paramat |
complete |
| 02:12 |
Sokomine |
has something been changed regarding minetest.serialize? some behaviour seems odd. it wasn't throwing complaints at me for passing a function in a table to it, and the output looks diffrent. or is it just me? |
| 02:49 |
|
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| 03:46 |
|
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| 03:46 |
est31 |
hmmmm, have you seen #2941 ? |
| 03:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2941 -- Serialization error |
| 03:48 |
|
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| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
well, i have now |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
est31: that's good |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
est31: under normal circumstances that would've flooded the chat window with a bunch of bogus characters and possibly get further into the AOM processing chain |
| 03:58 |
|
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| 04:31 |
VanessaE |
regression: now all the wielded items in the wield3d mod are black |
| 04:32 |
VanessaE |
i.e. what you see other players carrying |
| 04:34 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: ^^^^^^ |
| 05:42 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, link to that mod? |
| 05:48 |
|
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| 05:59 |
VanessaE |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6407 |
| 06:00 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: better to just sign onto VE-Basic and you can see it in use there. |
| 06:00 |
VanessaE |
however now it's not doing it |
| 06:01 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: I see the trouble - it doesn't react to the ambient light, only to the sunlight level |
| 06:02 |
VanessaE |
I'm standing next to a torch at night and it's still solid black |
| 06:02 |
|
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| 06:10 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, when you drop an item on the ground, next to that torch, is it properly lit? |
| 06:11 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 06:11 |
RealBadAngel |
can you check shaders on/off ? |
| 06:11 |
VanessaE |
this is without shaders. |
| 06:12 |
RealBadAngel |
having them on changes anythin? |
| 06:13 |
VanessaE |
no effect. |
| 06:13 |
VanessaE |
dropped items look correct but not the wielded item, which is probably an attached entity |
| 06:13 |
RealBadAngel |
i see, compiling now fresh sources and will get that mod, will look for the reason |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
reference screenshot: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-07-22_02-14-33.png |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
that's a block of dirt-with-grass that I'm holding, same as is dropped on the ground in front of me. |
| 06:18 |
VanessaE |
(that screenshot was taken with shaders enabled; normally I have them turned off, same effect either way) |
| 06:19 |
RealBadAngel |
lol that mod is glitchy as hell |
| 06:19 |
RealBadAngel |
items keep disappearing. when you walk it swaps the hands too |
| 06:20 |
RealBadAngel |
and the item shows on the other hand |
| 06:20 |
RealBadAngel |
with item rotated by 180degs |
| 06:20 |
VanessaE |
the hand swap is an engine bug I'm sure of it |
| 06:21 |
VanessaE |
but doesn't matter, this is about the lighting on the wielded object, not how the wield is implemented :) |
| 06:24 |
RealBadAngel |
https://imgrush.com/upZF7zNLKcaj |
| 06:24 |
RealBadAngel |
https://imgrush.com/yG-fEsFNxMPW |
| 06:24 |
RealBadAngel |
i cant see anythin wrong with it |
| 06:25 |
VanessaE |
now go into a dark cave during the daytime. |
| 06:26 |
VanessaE |
the wield will be full bright |
| 06:27 |
|
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| 06:28 |
RealBadAngel |
nope.avi |
| 06:28 |
VanessaE |
well it's broken for me. |
| 06:28 |
|
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| 06:31 |
RealBadAngel |
can i see a screenie how it looks for you? |
| 06:33 |
VanessaE |
reference screenshot: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-07-22_02-14-33.png |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
compare the dirt-with-grass block I dropped on the ground with the one in my hand |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
(the dropped one is just above the hotbar in the screenshot) |
| 06:45 |
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| 06:47 |
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| 06:49 |
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| 06:51 |
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| 06:58 |
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| 07:15 |
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| 08:05 |
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| 08:15 |
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| 08:28 |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:15 |
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| 09:27 |
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| 09:56 |
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| 09:58 |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:02 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 10:29 |
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| 10:53 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 11:09 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/VanessaE/hdx-16/issues/3 |
| 11:10 |
VanessaE |
one of the oddest messages I've gotten in recent times, but he's right. Can this be remedied at some point? |
| 11:13 |
rubenwardy |
some texture packs store alternatives in subdirectories |
| 11:13 |
VanessaE |
right, but I think he's talking more like "default" in one dir, "coloredwood" in another, and so on |
| 11:14 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 11:14 |
rubenwardy |
For compatibility, you'd need to add a meta data file which says look in sub directories |
| 11:14 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 11:16 |
|
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| 11:18 |
|
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| 11:18 |
TBC_x |
I hate reference counted memory leaks |
| 11:18 |
TBC_x |
but I may have come up with a way to hunt them |
| 11:22 |
|
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| 11:28 |
kilbith |
first at all, find out a memory free-er for the distant mapblocks |
| 11:29 |
kilbith |
this is insane that they're always kept in RAM |
| 11:29 |
TBC_x |
you know... caching |
| 11:30 |
kilbith |
caching ad nauseum, yeah |
| 11:31 |
TBC_x |
how are mapblocks sent? on client request or are just sent by the server? |
| 11:31 |
VanessaE |
I'd say unload based on distance from the nearest client, multiplied by time since loading. if the result exceeds some arbitrary threshold, unload the block |
| 11:32 |
VanessaE |
TBC_x: by the server based on which way the client is looking |
| 11:32 |
TBC_x |
i mean client-side right now |
| 11:32 |
TBC_x |
if that makes sense |
| 11:33 |
VanessaE |
it does. |
| 11:34 |
TBC_x |
I know, that mapblocks have their lifetime defined by timeout value |
| 11:36 |
|
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| 11:41 |
|
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| 11:47 |
|
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| 11:48 |
TBC_x |
this is annoying, when I WANT it to leak memory it does not leak |
| 11:54 |
nrzkt |
TBX_x timeout is not sufficient |
| 12:10 |
|
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| 12:43 |
|
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| 12:55 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:58 |
|
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| 12:59 |
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| 13:01 |
|
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| 14:00 |
|
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| 14:04 |
TBC_x |
http://sprunge.us/HAgC leak sanitizer report from inside of running minetest |
| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
only 7.6MB of leaks? throw dreambuilder at it and see what happens ;) |
| 14:08 |
TBC_x |
well... we're keeping 4k mapblockmeshes around |
| 14:09 |
TBC_x |
I got the output so I could see how many objects there are hanging out |
| 14:09 |
VanessaE |
hm, you should sort the output by leak size |
| 14:09 |
|
est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:09 |
TBC_x |
grep " leak " leaks | uniq |less |
| 14:09 |
VanessaE |
that's cheating :P |
| 14:11 |
Krock |
lol |
| 14:11 |
TBC_x |
I needed a way to count objects |
| 14:12 |
VanessaE |
2015-07-22 15:09:04: ERROR[main]: generateImage(): Could not load image "door_steel.png" while building texture |
| 14:12 |
VanessaE |
so I'm not the only one who gets that error huh? |
| 14:12 |
TBC_x |
I thought you're aware of that |
| 14:13 |
nrzkt |
i didn't know we sell tshirts.... http://www.cafepress.co.uk/mf/83297301/mt-hdx-logo_tshirt?productId=998795960 |
| 14:13 |
VanessaE |
nope. Id I've seen any such report, I've forgotten about it :) |
| 14:14 |
* kilbith |
would like a t-shirt autographed by RBA :3 |
| 14:14 |
nrzkt |
is this somebody who want to earn money on minetest community ? |
| 14:14 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: that's rubenwardy's cafepress store. |
| 14:14 |
VanessaE |
been there for a couple years now I think |
| 14:14 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 14:15 |
rubenwardy |
there's $6 there, I can't withdraw until there's $25 |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
is the quality of the mug good? |
| 14:15 |
nrzkt |
okay |
| 14:31 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, i cant reproduce that black wield3d issue even when using old server and new client |
| 14:32 |
est31 |
I've seen it on VanessaE's server too |
| 14:33 |
VanessaE |
so clearly it ain't unique to my client :P |
| 14:33 |
VanessaE |
and the mod is just a normal, unmodified install |
| 14:33 |
RealBadAngel |
is your server still an older ver or you have it updated? |
| 14:33 |
VanessaE |
nope |
| 14:33 |
VanessaE |
it's up-to-date as of 6am this morn. |
| 14:34 |
VanessaE |
(4 1/2 hours ago) |
| 14:34 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, going to waste some of my limits and join it ;) |
| 14:34 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 14:35 |
RealBadAngel |
which one? |
| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
Basic |
| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
(30005) |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
ssssshhh I'm hiding from the legion of n00bs over there. :P |
| 14:46 |
TBC_x |
I think it is driver-dependent issue |
| 14:46 |
VanessaE |
I'd be inclined to blame irrlicht first |
| 14:47 |
VanessaE |
seeing as how all other lighting seems to work like it should |
| 14:48 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, ok, im in |
| 14:48 |
RealBadAngel |
where are you? |
| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
I'm not online at the moment. hiding from the legions of n00bs |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
you caj ust hit f7 and check in that mode, it's the same |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
can* |
| 14:56 |
RealBadAngel |
i think we shall look for the bug in code that set player->light_color |
| 14:56 |
|
gravgun joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:56 |
VanessaE |
so you can reproduce it? |
| 14:56 |
RealBadAngel |
by joining your server yes |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 14:57 |
RealBadAngel |
locally i cant |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
that's what made me think it's network-related. |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
that's surely the only difference between local client+server instances and going online. |
| 14:57 |
RealBadAngel |
you also wasnt able to reproduce it on local right? |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
yeah, locally it worked for me, too |
| 15:00 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, i think best way to fix it is making wield3d mod obsolete anyway |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
agreed |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
but until then.. |
| 15:00 |
RealBadAngel |
if we have it done properly, client side, we simply wont have such problems |
| 15:00 |
gravgun |
Hum I can't create an account on the mt-dev wiki due to some "Incorrect or missing confirmation code.", is anyone else experiencing this issue? |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
gravgun: everyone has that problem. |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: ^^^^ |
| 15:00 |
gravgun |
Alright... |
| 15:01 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, so, im going now to code wielded engine and client side |
| 15:01 |
RealBadAngel |
not so hard i think |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 15:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have all what i need |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
whatever it is that's causing the problem needs fixed first. |
| 15:02 |
VanessaE |
because you can't fix old clients |
| 15:02 |
VanessaE |
and I'll be using this mod until at least the point where old clients can safely be ignored. |
| 15:03 |
RealBadAngel |
many of our bugs are caused by thinkin this way (offtopic) |
| 15:03 |
est31 |
actually I agree with rba on this point |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 15:03 |
RealBadAngel |
"stfu and get client up to date" |
| 15:03 |
est31 |
yea |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
old clients can't be updated easily. |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
think tablet/phone users |
| 15:03 |
RealBadAngel |
just dl new one |
| 15:04 |
est31 |
we have to maintain actual backwards compat, but wield items being shadowed is a "luxury bug" for me |
| 15:04 |
RealBadAngel |
whats so hard? |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
there isn't a new one. |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
that's what's so hard. |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
tablet clients are slow to update. |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
(the maintainers I mean) |
| 15:04 |
RealBadAngel |
are you kidding me? |
| 15:04 |
RealBadAngel |
check out "HayDay" |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
no, I'm talking from experience here. |
| 15:04 |
RealBadAngel |
without client up to date youre not able to connect |
| 15:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and are FORCED to get new one |
| 15:05 |
VanessaE |
someone the other day produced a disturbing chart of current-in-use clients. at least half of the Minetest userbase is out of date. |
| 15:05 |
est31 |
no |
| 15:05 |
gravgun |
How to make something good: 1. Solid and flexible protocol 2. Code 3. Done |
| 15:05 |
RealBadAngel |
which is circa 50mb |
| 15:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and they do updates at least once a month |
| 15:05 |
VanessaE |
this isn't HayDay., |
| 15:05 |
RealBadAngel |
but philosophy is correct |
| 15:05 |
gravgun |
This isn't 2000's either |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
this is minetest with its ongoing problem of clone clients. |
| 15:06 |
RealBadAngel |
sure, lets think on the code to provide compability with all the versions around including fm :) |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
I'm still getting users who haven't updated enough to see mesh nodes, for crying out loud. |
| 15:07 |
est31 |
well thats their fault then |
| 15:07 |
RealBadAngel |
because you let them in |
| 15:07 |
est31 |
but at least you can tell them "update your client" |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
just yesterday for example. fortunately that guy was able to update |
| 15:07 |
RealBadAngel |
if they were told, go get new one... everybody would be happy |
| 15:07 |
RealBadAngel |
after a single download |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 15:07 |
est31 |
I have done a PR to check the clientside version clientside |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
I'd lose like 80% of my userbase |
| 15:07 |
est31 |
but it has been muted in a shitstorm |
| 15:07 |
RealBadAngel |
thats what you think |
| 15:08 |
VanessaE |
that's what I know! |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:08 |
RealBadAngel |
its totally wrong |
| 15:08 |
VanessaE |
I lost half of it just by changing my G*d damned server name |
| 15:08 |
est31 |
#2508 |
| 15:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2508 -- Pass version information to joinplayer callback by est31 |
| 15:09 |
est31 |
even displaying a hint "please update your client" is too much for some people |
| 15:09 |
VanessaE |
I'm afraid so |
| 15:09 |
VanessaE |
don't get me wrong, I am not saying DON'T do in-client 3d wields. |
| 15:10 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: phone users should use official version and shut up |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
I'm saying you can't expect most server owners to rely on it so quickly when there's an existing solution. |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: yes they should, but they won't/ |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
good luck getting them to switch. |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
I have tried |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
and tried |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
and tried,. |
| 15:10 |
|
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| 15:10 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: we can add a fuction in minetest server when they connect to insult them |
| 15:10 |
est31 |
consult is a more polite term |
| 15:11 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: and make them turn away from minetest entirely? that's hardly a good idea. |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
xD |
| 15:11 |
VanessaE |
these are 8-10 year old kids |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
it was a joke |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
:p |
| 15:11 |
VanessaE |
well 8-15, average seems to be about 12. |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
fucking kid, please update your minetest or i hit your ass |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
this is a good message no ? :p |
| 15:11 |
VanessaE |
no :p |
| 15:11 |
nrzkt |
:( |
| 15:12 |
nrzkt |
but i really think we could tell users to update their clients |
| 15:12 |
VanessaE |
I don't disagree with telling users to upgrade |
| 15:12 |
nrzkt |
when they connect to server, server can tell them to update to newer version |
| 15:12 |
VanessaE |
but there's no way to do so that they'll actually listen to. |
| 15:12 |
nrzkt |
you can do it with a mod no ? |
| 15:12 |
VanessaE |
nope. |
| 15:12 |
nrzkt |
i do it in my server |
| 15:12 |
nrzkt |
how i do it... |
| 15:13 |
est31 |
you can do it with a mod, but only if you compiled in debug mode |
| 15:13 |
RealBadAngel |
age doesnt matter |
| 15:13 |
nrzkt |
https://github.com/nerzhul/minetest/blob/nrzforked_experiment/src/contrib/server.cpp#L38 |
| 15:13 |
nrzkt |
oh i do it natively |
| 15:13 |
est31 |
minetest.get_player_information(player_name) |
| 15:13 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: sure it does. the smaller the kid, the less likely they'll be to understand "get the official client" |
| 15:14 |
RealBadAngel |
just show message "updating your client. please stand by...." |
| 15:14 |
RealBadAngel |
and fuckin do it |
| 15:14 |
nrzkt |
we can add: if you are a kid, tell you father to di it |
| 15:14 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: these are *american* kids. ergo, equally stupid parents :-/ |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
tell your brother ? :p |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
tell your grand ma ? |
| 15:15 |
est31 |
perhaps we need better marketing |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
not marketing but communication |
| 15:15 |
VanessaE |
est31: we do. |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
and the first thing is to tell players to upgrade their clients |
| 15:15 |
|
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| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
we should add this function in core or buildint before next release |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
builtin* |
| 15:15 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: the problem is still getting out from under 4 million old,outdated clones |
| 15:15 |
VanessaE |
and kids just won't do it |
| 15:15 |
VanessaE |
I have trieed |
| 15:15 |
RealBadAngel |
such ways used in HayDay effects in millions of players worldwide miliking stupid cows |
| 15:15 |
nrzkt |
clones are not our problem |
| 15:16 |
RealBadAngel |
can be done? |
| 15:16 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it can |
| 15:16 |
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FR^2 joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:16 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, we arent hayday |
| 15:16 |
nrzkt |
the main thing is to have an automated message for update |
| 15:16 |
nrzkt |
each time they connect they will see it, they will learn to update their cleints |
| 15:16 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: which doesn't exist in old clients. |
| 15:17 |
est31 |
yea |
| 15:17 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, no we are not. but idea of having client and server in sync is valid |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
you can't detect the client version from the server |
| 15:17 |
est31 |
VanessaE, you can |
| 15:17 |
est31 |
minetest.get_player_information |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
est31: I mean in Release builds. |
| 15:17 |
est31 |
yes |
| 15:17 |
est31 |
that has to be changed IMO |
| 15:17 |
nrzkt |
what doesn't exist in clients ? |
| 15:17 |
nrzkt |
it said the server send the message |
| 15:17 |
nrzkt |
i* |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: an automated way of checking versioning and offering to update. |
| 15:17 |
nrzkt |
then it's not a problem with clients :) |
| 15:18 |
nrzkt |
oh, i don't talk about offering an update |
| 15:18 |
est31 |
at least one should be abled to check the protocol version |
| 15:18 |
nrzkt |
but telling them how to do it |
| 15:18 |
nrzkt |
ti's the minimum to do, and we don't do it atm |
| 15:18 |
RealBadAngel |
also theres another problem with the sync, minetest_game is in continuos async mode |
| 15:18 |
Tesseract |
hmmmm: Does my threading PR look good now. I've fixed everything you mentioned (except for the pthread leaking thing, which was really a question). |
| 15:18 |
nrzkt |
i don't agree with automated updating because we are packaged in distros |
| 15:18 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: android. |
| 15:18 |
kilbith |
VanessaE: it's not our problem if android players don't get the official release on android |
| 15:18 |
VanessaE |
kilbith: it IS our problem. |
| 15:19 |
nrzkt |
no |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
it *shouldn't* be |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
but it is. |
| 15:19 |
nrzkt |
because we are not maintainer |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
it's a problem we have to deal with in the most graceful way possible to avoid alienating our userbase. |
| 15:19 |
est31 |
VanessaE, automated updates are forbidden by play store AFAIK |
| 15:19 |
nrzkt |
it's the problem of maintainers of clone if their client doesn't work with servers |
| 15:19 |
nrzkt |
they will be forced to update they stupid outdated forks |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
est31: even *offering* an update? |
| 15:19 |
kilbith |
that's wrong, i do have auto. updates everyday from the play store |
| 15:20 |
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| 15:20 |
kilbith |
but it's configurable |
| 15:20 |
RealBadAngel |
what i do think we should forbid connecting different versions. put the game in sync with engine. make the official releases come out more often |
| 15:20 |
nrzkt |
kilbith, i think est31 talks about app updated itself |
| 15:20 |
nrzkt |
not playstore checking update |
| 15:20 |
kilbith |
i talk about app update too |
| 15:20 |
nrzkt |
RBA : not 1 server with 1 version, but 3 versions is sufficient i think |
| 15:20 |
nrzkt |
not 20 |
| 15:21 |
nrzkt |
i looked at stats and we can drop Minetest 0.4.7 and lower |
| 15:21 |
RealBadAngel |
if we had chosen syncing we would have anything in the statistics other that last official |
| 15:22 |
nrzkt |
yes, but it's too late |
| 15:22 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: drop everything before 0.4.12 if anything is dropped. |
| 15:22 |
nrzkt |
now we should do it smother |
| 15:22 |
RealBadAngel |
cut the rope |
| 15:22 |
est31 |
man |
| 15:22 |
nrzkt |
wtf VanessaE, i don't understand |
| 15:22 |
nrzkt |
i looked at master server stats with graphs |
| 15:22 |
est31 |
why do you not want to give server owners freedom? |
| 15:23 |
est31 |
server owners can enable strict protocol checking |
| 15:23 |
kilbith |
VanessaE: if some player complain about the outdated homedecor on launchpad, that's not your problem either |
| 15:23 |
nrzkt |
est31: agree, but with limit, a maximum version supported |
| 15:23 |
est31 |
if they think its so great |
| 15:23 |
est31 |
how many have done it |
| 15:23 |
RealBadAngel |
if i can hear folks are complainin about meshes? |
| 15:23 |
VanessaE |
kilbith: that's not my problem because I don't maintain those packages, but at the same time it IS my problem because I have to field support requests. thankfully not too many in that instance. |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
nrzkt, RealBadAngel my offer is still there, if you get me 8 of the top 10 server owners on the public list to agree to dropping protocol, we can do it. |
| 15:24 |
RealBadAngel |
damn how old is meshnodes drawtype? |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
but not until then |
| 15:24 |
kilbith |
VanessaE: we don't maintain the wacky android forks either |
| 15:24 |
hmmmm |
ugh |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
if server owners thought it would be so great, they would have done it |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
but they dont do |
| 15:24 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: that's exactly my point - I had to tell someone just yesterday to update their client for meshnode support. they were still using 0.4.10. |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
we have to follow our users here |
| 15:24 |
|
FR^2 left #minetest-dev |
| 15:24 |
VanessaE |
kilbith: and yet, we have to deal with the fallout from them. |
| 15:24 |
hmmmm |
why are you being so pushy about dropping reverse compatibility |
| 15:24 |
est31 |
NONE of the servers has enabled strict protocol checking AFAIK |
| 15:24 |
hmmmm |
is there an actual technical reason why this needs to be done |
| 15:25 |
nrzkt |
est31: supporting the two last years versions is sufficient, no need to support minetest before that |
| 15:25 |
VanessaE |
est31: for a while, my two dreambuilder servers had that. then I realized it cut off too many people./ |
| 15:25 |
est31 |
nrzkt, why is there need to drop support |
| 15:25 |
hmmmm |
i asked this question before, there is no need, he just wants to 'clean up' the code |
| 15:25 |
est31 |
thats not worth it |
| 15:25 |
nrzkt |
1. users update their clients. 2. have a clear code well supported and well known |
| 15:25 |
RealBadAngel |
one thing i know its extremaly hard to solve issues not only in current code but also in all previous ones |
| 15:25 |
hmmmm |
of course |
| 15:26 |
hmmmm |
i dunno about you but i'm not in the business of forcing users to do things they don't want to do |
| 15:26 |
nrzkt |
3. can evolve minetest |
| 15:26 |
hmmmm |
optionally executed code is not holding back minetest |
| 15:26 |
nrzkt |
if we support minetest 0.3 we cannot add some features because they don't support it. |
| 15:26 |
est31 |
nrzkt, if you have spare time to evolve minetest, document the protocol on the wiki. Then people can do clean re-implementations |
| 15:26 |
VanessaE |
there's surely a limit of how much backward compat to retain. |
| 15:27 |
VanessaE |
the argument here is where that limit should be and what we do uip to that point. |
| 15:27 |
VanessaE |
up* |
| 15:27 |
hmmmm |
vanessae: unless there's an actual reason for doing so I still don't see why it needs to be dropped |
| 15:27 |
nrzkt |
the net protocol works like it does now. But it's very very very very hard to evolve the protocole because we should have many conditions to handle, and some has bugs. |
| 15:27 |
hmmmm |
the discussion about what the limit should be is how far back reverse compatibility is necessary |
| 15:28 |
hmmmm |
i.e., if there is a technical reason for cutting out reverse compat beyond that point, we can do so safely |
| 15:28 |
est31 |
but only if there is a technical reason |
| 15:28 |
hmmmm |
right |
| 15:28 |
nrzkt |
this can take 1 year, but 1 not wait 1 year to do it smoothy |
| 15:28 |
est31 |
nrzkt, tell us more about those bugs. |
| 15:28 |
nrzkt |
look at minetest 0.4.10 which send u16 for u32 to clients |
| 15:29 |
est31 |
? |
| 15:29 |
nrzkt |
when i looked at the code, 7 month ago i see some packets sending u16 to clients but the variable was u32 serverside and client side. |
| 15:30 |
nrzkt |
i also see that the server has a race which permit to crash it. It's fixed now, and packets are properly read |
| 15:30 |
est31 |
what variable was it? |
| 15:31 |
nrzkt |
search my first commits on the repo |
| 15:31 |
nrzkt |
when i started to design protocol v25 |
| 15:31 |
VanessaE |
well this sure went off-topic fast at any rate. |
| 15:32 |
est31 |
I know protocol v25, I've done most of it. |
| 15:32 |
nrzkt |
you do authentication |
| 15:32 |
nrzkt |
and i fix many protocol problems with datas. |
| 15:32 |
nrzkt |
you don't do most of it. We worked together. |
| 15:33 |
est31 |
I see you did TOCLIENT_DELETE_PARTICLESPAWNER |
| 15:33 |
nrzkt |
yes, it was the packet which has u16 problems |
| 15:33 |
est31 |
TOCLIENT_ACCESS_DENIED was done by you too |
| 15:33 |
est31 |
and parts of the new init packed |
| 15:34 |
est31 |
packet* |
| 15:34 |
est31 |
also TOCLIENT_HELLO |
| 15:34 |
nrzkt |
we are not talking about a recompense for the devel which has many lines to code here. |
| 15:34 |
nrzkt |
please come back to the initial discussion. |
| 15:34 |
est31 |
but rest was auth, which was done by me |
| 15:34 |
nrzkt |
RBA: what are your arguments ? |
| 15:35 |
nrzkt |
i also patched the Packet handling, changed the packet reading mode |
| 15:35 |
nrzkt |
and improve performance in some low layers, but it's not the problem here. |
| 15:35 |
VanessaE |
what does all this got to do with fixing attached entity lighting? or client-side wielding? |
| 15:35 |
VanessaE |
what has* |
| 15:35 |
est31 |
nrzkt, thats nice, but has nothing to do with protocol v25 |
| 15:35 |
nrzkt |
nothing, and we are talking about minetest communication problem about version update |
| 15:35 |
nrzkt |
stop that est31 this is stupid, you want a medal, take it. |
| 15:36 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: yeah, y'all went off on a tangent and that off onto another tangent :P |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
nrzkt, no I just wonder what technical arguments you have |
| 15:36 |
nrzkt |
too many maths for me, i forget my graduate courses :p |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
to drop old versions |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
you just list what you have improved |
| 15:36 |
nrzkt |
you are out of course, you talk about new protocol, not old |
| 15:36 |
est31 |
so yes take your medal |
| 15:36 |
nrzkt |
i don't want a medal |
| 15:37 |
nrzkt |
stop that now. |
| 15:37 |
est31 |
but what does low level speedup to do with dropping old protocol versions |
| 15:37 |
nrzkt |
you mixed everything... |
| 15:38 |
est31 |
I see now nrzkt what you've meant with the u16/u32 thing |
| 15:38 |
est31 |
agreed, its a bug |
| 15:38 |
est31 |
so servers which want to have more than 2^16-1 particle spawners have to enable strict protocol checking |
| 15:39 |
est31 |
but particle spawners are not worth it IMO |
| 15:39 |
est31 |
lets give the choice to server owners |
| 15:39 |
nrzkt |
particle spawner is is increasing no ? |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
well thats a problem with id management serverside |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
classical id assignment problem |
| 15:45 |
RealBadAngel |
whatever the feature, whatever the fix. point is when we fix it older clients wont get it |
| 15:45 |
RealBadAngel |
or make the end effect even worse |
| 15:46 |
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| 15:46 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, can you please ask server owners to enable strict protocol checking? This is not a discussion you have to have with me, you have to have this discussion with the users of our software. |
| 15:47 |
nrzkt |
est |
| 15:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i know, but thats the effect of our politics |
| 15:47 |
RealBadAngel |
not theirs |
| 15:47 |
nrzkt |
est31: i really think we should add a message sent to clients with outdated client to tell us to upgrade |
| 15:47 |
nrzkt |
just a message to inform them, if they don't know, why they should update ? |
| 15:48 |
RealBadAngel |
for starters just a warning message could do |
| 15:49 |
RealBadAngel |
like: it looks like youre using older client. if youre experiencing some drama please do update it in the first place ;" |
| 15:49 |
est31 |
nrzkt, I agree with that, but you should be abled to customize the message, and to turn it off. Best is that you make it moddable (minetest.player_uses_outdated_client(playername)), then server owners can integrate it into their system. |
| 15:49 |
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| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
use a minetest.conf string value then |
| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
and we can add it to buildint |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
builtin |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
called at every joinplayer |
| 15:50 |
est31 |
and optional, yes |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
then server owners only have to disable it |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
enable it by default, because it's the most important |
| 15:50 |
est31 |
ok |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
this is the most important to do |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
communicate. |
| 15:50 |
est31 |
? |
| 15:51 |
nrzkt |
the most important is to communicate information to our users, server admins & players |
| 15:52 |
nrzkt |
we should add this important feature in the changelog and warn admins about the importance of this message |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
most will ignore it |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
or not see it |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
(that's not an argument to not add it) |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
(merely an argument not to *rely* on it) |
| 15:53 |
est31 |
we can't do much else |
| 15:53 |
est31 |
except more marketing for the official minetest |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
*nod) |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
*nod* |
| 15:54 |
est31 |
it is basically marketing |
| 15:54 |
nrzkt |
maybe, but they are advertised, we are not minetest support team which come to each user by helicopter |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: no, that's Tesla. :) |
| 15:54 |
nrzkt |
xD |
| 15:58 |
|
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| 16:02 |
est31 |
I just think we shouldn't feel that the problems we solve (u32 vs u16 spawner issue) are more important than our users. I think users are more important. |
| 16:05 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:08 |
TBC_x |
I would just append build date after the version string |
| 16:08 |
nrzkt |
i agree |
| 16:08 |
nrzkt |
but our users didn't use minetest < 0.4.7 |
| 16:08 |
nrzkt |
we can drop support. |
| 16:09 |
rubenwardy |
It's not like we have real support |
| 16:09 |
rubenwardy |
new clients can't connect to Redcrab |
| 16:10 |
est31 |
well, redcrab has to update then |
| 16:10 |
rubenwardy |
which is 0.4.4 |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
from the previous discussion last week: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt |
| 16:10 |
rubenwardy |
so dropping remaining support for versions where the support doesn't actually work is good |
| 16:10 |
est31 |
thats their problem. We dont have a majority of users on redcrab do we |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: actually they can as long as the user deletes one file from the cache that's supplied by recrab. |
| 16:10 |
rubenwardy |
oh |
| 16:11 |
est31 |
The core problem is that the people who develop the unofficial clones want to make money with inserting ads/demanding money. As long as the money is still coming in, they have no motivation to update. So we have to find some way to convince the app maintainers to update the version. |
| 16:12 |
est31 |
without losing users on the way. |
| 16:13 |
rubenwardy |
that's a different issue, one I wanted to solve with #2442 |
| 16:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2442 -- Notifications of new engine versions. |
| 16:13 |
est31 |
rubenwardy, that doesnt solve it |
| 16:13 |
est31 |
its just for new versions |
| 16:13 |
est31 |
we need a solution that works for old ones |
| 16:13 |
rubenwardy |
it could be done server side |
| 16:13 |
est31 |
yes |
| 16:14 |
est31 |
thats what nrz wants to add. |
| 16:14 |
est31 |
nrzkt, can you make a pr? |
| 16:14 |
rubenwardy |
what's the problem, then? |
| 16:15 |
est31 |
nrz and RBA want to drop older versions, for no apparent reason |
| 16:15 |
rubenwardy |
what's the point in keeping half support? |
| 16:16 |
est31 |
its sufficient for most people |
| 16:16 |
est31 |
if 90% of the features are right, its better than none |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
I say use the server list itself. |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
feed to clients a modified server list that puts a two- or three-line warning in above all the public servers. |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
drop support for THAT in say a year |
| 16:17 |
est31 |
? |
| 16:18 |
rubenwardy |
That's a bit hacky :P |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
hacky yes |
| 16:18 |
est31 |
it does the job |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
but guaranteed to work on nearly every client in existendce. |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
existence* |
| 16:18 |
TBC_x |
is the server list notified of client version? |
| 16:19 |
est31 |
so please nrzkt RealBadAngel dont run around demanding to cut out half or more of minetest's population. please try to find ways to get the population to newer versions first, if you are so motivated to drop support for old versions. You have my approval for a message on join. |
| 16:19 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE i will show you graphs later, i have a kibana which have parsed all logs |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
after a year (or less?), stop issuing the warning via that method because by then, in-client support for a *proper* warning dialong would surely be in and everyone would hopefully have it |
| 16:19 |
nrzkt |
all logs from the begging to last week |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: I think I saw that log. |
| 16:20 |
TBC_x |
I think that warning should be there for good |
| 16:20 |
nrzkt |
i don't send the address of the graph public |
| 16:20 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: ok, I'm thinking of a different log then. |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
it was like this one, but focused just on versions, without platform info: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt |
| 16:21 |
nrzkt |
est31: i don't want to drop older version, just unused version, usage < 5% |
| 16:21 |
nrzkt |
est31: cannot provide a PR these day, i'm at work and i need to add a note to many of my students for tommorow :) |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
of course that one's old, march of this year |
| 16:22 |
est31 |
ok |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: *poke* |
| 16:22 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: *poke back* |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: do you have a newer version of ^^^^ lying around? |
| 16:22 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 16:23 |
sfan5 |
but if you want just a single statistic i can give you that |
| 16:23 |
sfan5 |
making a whole report is pretty time consuming |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
Just the version % |
| 16:24 |
est31 |
sfan5, nrz has said that from the 25% for 0.4.7 and older, 20% are "unknown", he says that they can be disregarded. Do you know whether older versions didnt send the version in the user agent?? |
| 16:24 |
nrzkt |
i will give you vanessaE |
| 16:24 |
nrzkt |
please wait |
| 16:24 |
VanessaE |
wow, lots of gratuitous use of cat there ;) |
| 16:24 |
nrzkt |
they send a git version hash |
| 16:24 |
nrzkt |
http://minetest-stats.unix-experience.fr/#/dashboard/Monthly-stats?_g=%28refreshInterval:%28display:Off,pause:!f,section:0,value:0%29,time:%28from:now-2y,mode:quick,to:now%29%29&_a=%28filters:!%28%29,panels:!%28%28col:1,id:Version-usage-per-month,row:1,size_x:12,size_y:5,type:visualization%29,%28col:1,id:%27Version-usage-per-month-%28stacked%29%27,row:6,size_x:12,size_y:6,type:visualization%29%29,query:%28query_string:%28analyze_wild |
| 16:24 |
nrzkt |
card:!t,query:%27*%27%29%29,title:%27Monthly%20stats%27%29 |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
est31: 0.4.7 or older do not send version info |
| 16:25 |
VanessaE |
eeek |
| 16:25 |
nrzkt |
please set this link in your browser |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
god damnbit nrzkt just use a shortener |
| 16:25 |
nrzkt |
and look at the graph :p |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
-b |
| 16:25 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: please bitly it. |
| 16:26 |
nrzkt |
http://goo.gl/H3xXis |
| 16:26 |
nrzkt |
time can be consuming, please only consult it |
| 16:27 |
nrzkt |
i let it public for 15 min, after i stop the service |
| 16:27 |
nrzkt |
in the logs empty users agents are only 8 in all logs |
| 16:28 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: gUnknown is android and 0.4.11 or newever as mentioned in my stat files |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
that's what I figured. |
| 16:29 |
nrzkt |
for the graphs you have the top 30 versions here |
| 16:29 |
nrzkt |
other version are < 0.1% |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
so between 0.4.10 and the "gUnknown" category, that's nearly 2/3 of the userbase (in nrz's graph that is) |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
sfan5, am I right that 0.4.6 had no custom user agent at all? |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
or 0.4.7 |
| 16:30 |
sfan5 |
0.4.7 or older had no user agent |
| 16:30 |
est31 |
ok. |
| 16:30 |
nrzkt |
yes and gunknown is 0.4.10 + |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
6 times as many users in that range as 0.4.12 |
| 16:31 |
nrzkt |
it's not single user here |
| 16:31 |
nrzkt |
it's single connection |
| 16:32 |
nrzkt |
i don't group by IP because i don't have IP |
| 16:32 |
est31 |
I just want to find out whether nrzkt is right or sfan5. |
| 16:32 |
nrzkt |
sfan5 do'nt give me |
| 16:33 |
est31 |
because sfan5 says that 25% have o.4.7 or older |
| 16:33 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 16:33 |
est31 |
and nrz says its only 5% |
| 16:33 |
sfan5 |
then something is wrong with how nrz parses the data |
| 16:34 |
nrzkt |
http://pastebin.com/UqCP1YUx |
| 16:34 |
nrzkt |
it's the logstash filter |
| 16:34 |
nrzkt |
and here is the regexp used |
| 16:35 |
nrzkt |
MINETESTCLIENTLOG \[%{HTTPDATE:timestamp}\] "%{DATA:client_name}/(?:%{DATA:client_version}(?:-%{DATA:git_rev}(?:-%{DATA:git_rev2}(?:%{DATA:git_rev3})?)?)?)? \(%{DATA:os_name}(?:/%{DATA:os_version} %{DATA:os_architecture})?\)" |
| 16:35 |
sfan5 |
cat game.log | cut -d '"' -f 6-7 | grep -E "^(Minetest|-)\"" | wc -l |
| 16:35 |
sfan5 |
i use that one for 0.4.7 or older |
| 16:36 |
TBC_x |
It would be very useful to log ip though |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:37 |
nrzkt |
it's only in sfan5 results |
| 16:37 |
sfan5 |
the ip is logged |
| 16:37 |
sfan5 |
but i did not give nrzkt the data with ips |
| 16:38 |
sfan5 |
because privacy |
| 16:38 |
nrzkt |
but i could be good to have better stats for me to have the ip, because i could merge version/ip in one result |
| 16:38 |
sfan5 |
i doubt that it gives better stats |
| 16:38 |
nrzkt |
and don't count 10 users for a signle user launch 10 times its client |
| 16:38 |
sfan5 |
well i could do that before giving you the logs |
| 16:38 |
TBC_x |
if you run it through uniq, you can get more realistic stats |
| 16:38 |
nrzkt |
i need the date |
| 16:39 |
sfan5 |
you have the date |
| 16:39 |
nrzkt |
with a stupid bash you cannot have uniq entries |
| 16:39 |
nrzkt |
if you give me the date |
| 16:39 |
sfan5 |
I'm pretty sure you have the date |
| 16:39 |
nrzkt |
your regexp didn't match on the first file you give me |
| 16:39 |
nrzkt |
yes i have it |
| 16:39 |
nrzkt |
but i need to have date + ip + client version to have a single user entry for an interval of time |
| 16:40 |
nrzkt |
atm i cannot merge per version/ip |
| 16:40 |
TBC_x |
you can get grep output with unique lines |
| 16:40 |
nrzkt |
no TBC |
| 16:40 |
nrzkt |
you are using a stupid bash |
| 16:40 |
nrzkt |
to have a single user over a time interval you need: time, IP and useragent |
| 16:41 |
nrzkt |
uniq is stupid, if i have time i cannot merge for a amount of time |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
wtf |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
who even said I need to use bash? |
| 16:41 |
nrzkt |
you use bash atm :p |
| 16:41 |
nrzkt |
and i use a professionnal tool to do stats |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
actually i use zsh |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
well ok |
| 16:41 |
nrzkt |
yes shell, i use zsh too on my server |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
are my stats inferior now? |
| 16:42 |
sfan5 |
just because i don't use a "professional" tool? |
| 16:42 |
nrzkt |
they are not correct because they don't take all the arguments to have real stats. |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
lolwat |
| 16:43 |
nrzkt |
we use kibana at work to do business intelligence based on server logs. This permit us to have some ROI |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
ofc they are correct |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
they just count each GET /list as one |
| 16:43 |
nrzkt |
i should take my train, we will talk later, have a nice day |
| 16:43 |
TBC_x |
define correct data |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
and dont do any merging |
| 16:43 |
nrzkt |
yes, but you don't merge signle user into one entry |
| 16:43 |
nrzkt |
this is the most important thing |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
correct |
| 16:43 |
sfan5 |
not really |
| 16:43 |
est31 |
no |
| 16:44 |
nrzkt |
i can ddos with my 0.4.12 to have 1M entries :p |
| 16:44 |
nrzkt |
++ |
| 16:44 |
sfan5 |
well thats nice |
| 16:44 |
est31 |
I agree with sfan5 we should value users after how much they use minetest |
| 16:44 |
sfan5 |
problem is we can't |
| 16:44 |
est31 |
if they use it once a month, they should be valued less than if they use it daily |
| 16:44 |
sfan5 |
all we can do is merge entries in a time frame by ip and user agent |
| 16:44 |
est31 |
sfan5, we do if we dont count users but requests to /list |
| 16:45 |
sfan5 |
we do what? |
| 16:45 |
est31 |
then those who make many requests to /list get valued more than those who make few |
| 16:47 |
sfan5 |
correct |
| 16:48 |
TBC_x |
sfan5: how many unique requests from IPv6 do you get? |
| 16:48 |
sfan5 |
http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt |
| 16:48 |
sfan5 |
the value there should be pretty accurate |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:52 |
TBC_x |
can you send me all acesses from 2a00:1028:96c0:4482:21d:72ff:fe09:636e ? |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
[12:44 PM] <est31> I agree with sfan5 we should value users after how much they use minetest |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
"we" should value users? |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
we do, those two people do not |
| 16:53 |
TBC_x |
sfan5 |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
why |
| 16:53 |
TBC_x |
Need sample data |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
for what |
| 16:54 |
TBC_x |
for my generator |
| 16:54 |
hmmmm |
needless to say i won't approve of any kind of change that breaks compatibility. we should also be on the lookout for sneaky surprises in commits from either of them |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
est31 |
↑ this |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
TBC_x: there are none |
| 16:57 |
TBC_x |
then send me cat log | tail, including IP, but annonymized to 255.255.255.255 |
| 16:58 |
TBC_x |
please |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
haha no |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
actually i found a few |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
2a00:1028:96c0:4482:21d:72ff:fe09:636e - - [15/Jul/2015:18:28:17 +0000] "GET /list?proto_version_min=13&proto_version_max=25 HTTP/1.1" 200 140322 "-" "Minetest/0.4.12-dev-8ac0cf5-dirty (Linux/4.0.5-1-ARCH x86_64)" "-" |
| 16:58 |
TBC_x |
thanks |
| 17:01 |
TBC_x |
are there any line breaks? |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
I just did a git bisect, but it didn't work. |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/19a6e332f86431e6f45e |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
this doesn't work but it should |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
not in 0.4.12-dev or 0.4.12 |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
it works with minimal, but not with MTG |
| 17:09 |
rubenwardy |
and I've had enough of Minetest for today |
| 17:09 |
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| 17:11 |
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| 17:15 |
nrzkt |
sfan5: please replace your log parsing with faster parsing by removing this ugly pipes |
| 17:15 |
nrzkt |
cat game.log | cut -d '"' -f 6-7 | grep -c -E "^(Minetest|-)\"" |
| 17:15 |
sfan5 |
how about you don't tell me what to do |
| 17:15 |
nrzkt |
grep -c count lines |
| 17:16 |
nrzkt |
this is the first optimize |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
please |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
i don't want your lecture about optimizing command |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
i don't want you lecture about using professional tools |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
i don't want your lecture about how my statistics are wrong |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
thanks |
| 17:17 |
nrzkt |
then continue to give stats for non unique clients |
| 17:17 |
kilbith |
i don't want to learn |
| 17:17 |
sfan5 |
you could have told me "you should only count unique clients" |
| 17:17 |
sfan5 |
but no |
| 17:17 |
sfan5 |
you needed to tell me that the tools i use suck |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
it's not adapted to a such usage |
| 17:18 |
sfan5 |
that i should be using professional tools like you |
| 17:18 |
est31 |
bash/zsh/even sh are professional tools too btw. |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
no |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
this is a good for basic toolkits |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
not for parsing millions of lines of log to do stats |
| 17:19 |
est31 |
remember the donald e knuth story where he had a page long pascal example, then a guy came around crunching it to a few lines of bash? |
| 17:19 |
nrzkt |
this is deprecated and indications are not really correct because shell doesn't use stats algorithms |
| 17:19 |
est31 |
pages long* |
| 17:19 |
est31 |
nrzkt, either way algorithms are only about speed, not about actual output |
| 17:20 |
est31 |
perhaps its faster to have dedicated code, but its not "more correct" |
| 17:22 |
nrzkt |
the kibana code talk to elasticsearch to give it stats about entries in the index |
| 17:23 |
nrzkt |
for your script sfan5: to win some time you should do : awk -F '"' '{print $2}' game.log | grep -c -E "^(Minetest|-)\"" |
| 17:23 |
sfan5 |
stfu |
| 17:24 |
nrzkt |
this read one time stdout and one time the file |
| 17:24 |
nrzkt |
with your stats it's very slow because you read 1 time the file and 3 times stdout :) |
| 17:24 |
TBC_x |
it doesn't matter |
| 17:25 |
TBC_x |
there's no random access |
| 17:25 |
nrzkt |
and next, improve awk to count the entries itself and do stats :) |
| 17:25 |
nrzkt |
okay TBC_x have you parsed 800Mb files with shell ? |
| 17:25 |
TBC_x |
not yet |
| 17:25 |
TBC_x |
writing generator |
| 17:25 |
init |
if we actually an actual performance improvement, we could rewrite it into another language with a compiler that can generate fast binaries |
| 17:25 |
nrzkt |
okay, do it and compare |
| 17:26 |
nrzkt |
awk can do the action i show you in one call, but i'm not very aware with awk |
| 17:26 |
init |
so can perl |
| 17:26 |
nrzkt |
you don't need to re-invent a binary which does everything for u |
| 17:26 |
TBC_x |
gonna do my own shell hacking |
| 17:26 |
init |
and shell, too |
| 17:27 |
TBC_x |
btw, where are the useragent strings? |
| 17:27 |
TBC_x |
in the source |
| 17:27 |
sfan5 |
httpfetch.cpp i think |
| 17:27 |
sfan5 |
os version is done in porting.cpp |
| 17:27 |
TBC_x |
ok |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
* est31 |
brings this pr to attention, it gives servers the option to display a "reconnect" button if they restart or crash: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2922 |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:13 |
nrzkt |
always +1 for me |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
I guess this is a larger change, so it will need 2 +1 |
| 18:15 |
nrzkt |
ok |
| 18:17 |
TBC_x |
theoretically, it could be added to every disconnect |
| 18:17 |
est31 |
well, discuss that with nrz, he was against |
| 18:17 |
est31 |
original design included that, yes. |
| 18:18 |
nrzkt |
if i disconnect from the server i doesn't want to have the "please reconnect" form :) |
| 18:19 |
nrzkt |
include that for unneeded reboot is good, for other cases it's just anoying |
| 18:19 |
TBC_x |
well... for every involuntary disconnect |
| 18:20 |
nrzkt |
crash, server reboot or kick is good |
| 18:20 |
est31 |
(aka TOCLIENT_ACCESS_DENIED) |
| 18:20 |
nrzkt |
but propose me te reconnect if my password is wrong ? |
| 18:20 |
nrzkt |
i will re send the same password |
| 18:20 |
TBC_x |
good point |
| 18:20 |
TBC_x |
well... for every involuntary disconnect from game world |
| 18:21 |
nrzkt |
it's cases covered by this pr |
| 18:21 |
TBC_x |
k then |
| 18:21 |
TBC_x |
damn... I hate my tension to overengineer everything |
| 18:52 |
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| 19:04 |
nrzkt |
that's better :p |
| 19:07 |
Krock |
#2948 |
| 19:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2948 -- Fix MSVC number conversion warning by SmallJoker |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:18 |
paramat |
nore, Tesseract, any comments on adding steelblock to stairs mod, when i add acacia? game#581 |
| 19:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/581 -- New stairs and slabs discussion |
| 19:39 |
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| 20:08 |
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| 20:55 |
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| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, here? |
| 21:08 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, the bug you have blamed me for, was here before |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
wield3d mod is glitchy propably because attachements code is glitchy too |
| 21:11 |
est31 |
^ |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
i think that attached objects lighting never gets updated at all |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
enviroment.cpp line 2357, theres light updated for all the active objects |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
but i cant see how then attached ones could be updated |
| 21:40 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, it does update them too |
| 21:48 |
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| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, here? |
| 22:05 |
est31 |
why |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
i know the reason for that glitch |
| 22:05 |
est31 |
whats the reason |
| 22:06 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/environment.cpp#L2380 |
| 22:07 |
RealBadAngel |
somehow on VE server pos is always "not ok" |
| 22:07 |
RealBadAngel |
in else there ive put dstream<<"Pos not ok, "<<p.X<<","<<p.Y<<","<<p.Z<<std::endl; |
| 22:07 |
RealBadAngel |
and got: |
| 22:08 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/PaUNdpiH |
| 22:08 |
RealBadAngel |
where all of these coords seems to be valid |
| 22:09 |
RealBadAngel |
but pos_ok is set to false |
| 22:14 |
TBC_x |
it looks like it depends on uninitialized value |
| 22:15 |
TBC_x |
oh, it does not |
| 22:15 |
TBC_x |
didn't notice the missing * |
| 22:16 |
RealBadAngel |
param0 in returned node is always 127 |
| 22:17 |
TBC_x |
atMapBlock::getNodeNoCheck *valid_position = data != NULL; |
| 22:17 |
TBC_x |
oops |
| 22:17 |
TBC_x |
in atMapBlock::getNodeNoCheck() { *valid_position = data != NULL; ... } |
| 22:17 |
TBC_x |
stop doing such checks |
| 22:18 |
RealBadAngel |
who shall stop? |
| 22:18 |
TBC_x |
anyone who's doing it |
| 22:19 |
RealBadAngel |
idk whos author of that code |
| 22:19 |
TBC_x |
easy to look up |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:25 |
TBC_x |
5b8855e8 (Craig Robbins 2014-11-14 18:05:34 +1000 331) *valid_position = data != NULL; |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
whoever made it, looks like getNodeNoEx is able to return content ignore and set non valid flags for obviously valid coordinates |
| 22:44 |
Routh |
Guys I'm getting this crash a lot lately when testing my mapgen: http://pastebin.com/FGTYwK94 |
| 22:44 |
Routh |
It wasn't happening at all until this week.. |
| 22:56 |
est31 |
is that the full stack trace? |
| 23:06 |
Routh |
est31 Yes |
| 23:07 |
Routh |
No on a map that seems to do it 100% of the time. |
| 23:07 |
Routh |
Everytime I move far enough to spin a mapgen thread, dead. |
| 23:08 |
est31 |
can you rebase? |
| 23:08 |
Routh |
define: rebase? |
| 23:08 |
est31 |
er |
| 23:08 |
est31 |
can you bisect? |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:09 |
Routh |
Sorry, still not certain what you mean. |
| 23:10 |
Routh |
Are you referring to me updating my checkout of the source/ |
| 23:10 |
paramat |
related to #2941 ? and should that have been closed? |
| 23:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2941 -- Serialization error |
| 23:11 |
est31 |
no paramat thats something else |
| 23:11 |
paramat |
okay |
| 23:11 |
est31 |
this is clear wrong usage |
| 23:11 |
est31 |
somebody tries to serialize userdata here |
| 23:12 |
est31 |
dunno whether its fault of you Routh or if its a bug with us, but something goes wrong |
| 23:12 |
Routh |
My most recent code is here. |
| 23:12 |
Routh |
https://github.com/Routhinator/tekkest |
| 23:14 |
Routh |
So if it's the mods etc it should be possible to reproduce. If I regen this map right now I won't get one that does it 100% of the time.. so is there any way i can get more useful output (debug flag?) when I start the server? |
| 23:16 |
TBC_x |
RBA, try to replace *valid_position = data != NULL; with *valid_position = isValidPosition(x, y, z); in mapblock.h:331 |
| 23:17 |
Routh |
Was behind a few commits, I'll try recompiling. |
| 23:18 |
TBC_x |
when I've looked into history, it was a couple of times changed between two of those |
| 23:22 |
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| 23:57 |
RealBadAngel |
TBC_x, building |
