| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:58 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:59 |
|
est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:00 |
est31 |
About seeding our PRNG |
| 02:01 |
est31 |
this is how csrp-gmp does it https://github.com/est31/csrp-gmp/blob/master/srp.c#L424 |
| 02:02 |
est31 |
without any PRNG at all |
| 02:02 |
est31 |
I guess having our own will be faster than relying on OS based PRNGs |
| 02:02 |
est31 |
we can re-seed it with OS based PRNGs then |
| 02:02 |
est31 |
problem is: for unix, this comes without any cost |
| 02:03 |
est31 |
but windows needs to link against some system library |
| 02:03 |
est31 |
#include <Wincrypt.h> |
| 02:04 |
est31 |
author claims this is Advapi32.lib https://github.com/cocagne/csrp/blob/master/srp.h#L38 |
| 02:04 |
hmmmm |
fyi you could use rand_s() and get the same result. |
| 02:05 |
est31 |
interesting |
| 02:05 |
hmmmm |
also that code will fail on oses like solaris 8 that don't have /dev/random |
| 02:06 |
est31 |
that would have been my next point |
| 02:07 |
hmmmm |
generally though it's wrong to assume 'if it's not windows, it's posix' |
| 02:07 |
hmmmm |
defaulting to /dev/random would break compatibility with openvms |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
yes, I've noted that in the readme |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
rand_s() isn't standard C is it? |
| 02:08 |
hmmmm |
neither is CryptGenRandom() |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
I've only found windows docs about it |
| 02:10 |
est31 |
rand_s() has the issue that it "only" returns a single value |
| 02:10 |
est31 |
so we would have to call it in a loop |
| 02:18 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:19 |
|
Fritigern joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:20 |
paramat |
http://i.imgur.com/sYTDLyA.png just now got the fractal mapgen working |
| 02:20 |
|
paramat left #minetest-dev |
| 02:21 |
hmmmm |
wow :) that looks awesome |
| 02:29 |
est31 |
hmmmm, how can I seed that PcgRandom? call seed with one param, or with two? |
| 02:29 |
hmmmm |
split the seed between initial state and sequence |
| 02:29 |
hmmmm |
so that's 16 bytes |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
btw: |
| 02:38 |
est31 |
do class-variables that are public need an m_ prefix in the name too? |
| 02:38 |
est31 |
(style question) |
| 02:39 |
|
OldCoder joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:40 |
hmmmm |
no! |
| 02:41 |
hmmmm |
that would be horrible |
| 02:41 |
hmmmm |
v3s16 foo; foo.m_X |
| 03:20 |
|
crazyR joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:22 |
est31 |
hmmmm, what do you propose to use for solaris? |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
some arbitrary process memory |
| 03:23 |
est31 |
same for openvms? |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
xored with pid |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
this doesn't need to be too crazy, it's just a seed |
| 03:26 |
est31 |
if it can be predicted, people may be abled to log in as arbitrary users |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
time(NULL) ^ printf ^ this_function ^ *(unsigned long *)((char *)&function_argument - 16) ?? |
| 03:27 |
est31 |
sounds good |
| 03:27 |
est31 |
its not our fault when sb uses openvms |
| 03:27 |
est31 |
:p |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
maybe it's safer to use a variable allocated inside that function |
| 03:28 |
est31 |
? |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
well i just googled, OpenVMS has a secure random device |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
DEV$V_RND |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
who cares though :p |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
the point is that it's extremely difficult to source sufficient randomness in a truly platform independent way |
| 03:29 |
est31 |
yes |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
I think time(NULL) should be okay if if fopen("/dev/urandom", "rb") == NULL |
| 03:29 |
est31 |
whats b again? |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
binary |
| 03:30 |
est31 |
thats because of \0? or EOF? |
| 03:30 |
* est31 |
reads doc himself |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
?? |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
what no this is just the standard file mode string |
| 03:41 |
|
Hunterz joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:58 |
* cheapie |
gets yet another serialization error |
| 03:58 |
cheapie |
*This* is why UDP is a bad idea. |
| 03:59 |
est31 |
we are doing tcp ourselves |
| 03:59 |
est31 |
or at least the features of tcp we need |
| 03:59 |
cheapie |
est31: I sure hope MT gets TCP soon (or at least some kind of error detection). |
| 03:59 |
est31 |
nrzkt is the person for that task. |
| 04:00 |
cheapie |
Or, at the *very least*, restore the old behavior of more or less ignoring errors instead of basically crashing. |
| 04:00 |
cheapie |
It even says "The server is probably running a different version of Minetest." |
| 04:00 |
cheapie |
"Probably"!? |
| 04:00 |
cheapie |
There's no way for it to figure that out? |
| 04:00 |
* cheapie |
grumbles |
| 04:03 |
est31 |
I thought there were error detection methods |
| 04:05 |
cheapie |
est31: Well, yes, but exiting to the menu and giving a rather vague error message is not the proper action when one is detected. |
| 04:06 |
est31 |
right |
| 04:06 |
est31 |
so the problem is that one bit flipped somewhere, and its now garbage? |
| 04:07 |
cheapie |
Yes. |
| 04:07 |
est31 |
That should have been detected on a lower layer |
| 04:07 |
est31 |
is crc really that expensive? |
| 04:07 |
cheapie |
Depending on data going across even a local network 100% error-free is a Bad Ideaâ„¢, across the Internet is just plain stupid. |
| 04:07 |
cheapie |
est31: According to the devs I talked to last time, yes. |
| 04:08 |
cheapie |
The computer behind me, 120 MHz CPU and all, has no problem whatsoever handling TCP, so I'd think a modern computer should be fine too... |
| 04:10 |
cheapie |
From the Wikipedia article on UDP: "...and thus exposes any unreliability of the underlying network protocol to the user's program..." |
| 04:10 |
cheapie |
I think it's sort of implied that the "user's program" should be able to handle this. |
| 04:11 |
est31 |
agreed |
| 04:11 |
cheapie |
Yes, it says "The lack of retransmission delays makes it suitable for [...] online games", but for $DEITY's sake, use *some* kind of checksum and resend it if it's bad. |
| 04:12 |
est31 |
As you, I hope that nrz resolves this. |
| 04:13 |
est31 |
like* |
| 04:18 |
hmmmm |
cheapie, UDP has a checksum. |
| 04:18 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: It must not be working right. |
| 04:18 |
hmmmm |
it sounds like there's a different problem |
| 04:19 |
cheapie |
"If no checksum is generated by the transmitter, the field uses the value all-zeros." |
| 04:19 |
cheapie |
Is MT using it? |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
you shouldn't be blaming the underlying network protocol on a problem you are personally experiencing |
| 04:19 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: OK, what should I blame then? |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
nothing |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
you don't know what the cause of it is and neither do i |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
more research and less blaming helps |
| 04:20 |
cheapie |
Well, since this only ever seems to happen over a network... |
| 04:21 |
cheapie |
Still, "UDP checksum computation is optional for IPv4." I'd like to know if MT is using it. |
| 04:21 |
hmmmm |
it probably isn't, seeing as how IP itself has a checksum |
| 04:21 |
hmmmm |
UDP checksumming would be wasteful |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
but this isn't a minetest question, it's a platform question. are you running windows? does *windows* enable udp checksum computation? |
| 04:23 |
cheapie |
I'm on Linux. |
| 04:23 |
cheapie |
Dunno if it does. |
| 04:23 |
hmmmm |
probably not |
| 04:23 |
cheapie |
I only see a *header* checksum in IPv4. |
| 04:23 |
cheapie |
"An IP packet has no data checksum or any other footer after the data section." |
| 04:24 |
|
Hijiri joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
could be one of the options |
| 04:25 |
* cheapie |
decides to install Wireshark and take a look at some of the data |
| 04:25 |
hmmmm |
this is way too low-level. the problem you're experiencing has a 99.5% chance of being a configuration error of some sort. |
| 04:26 |
hmmmm |
`man udp` |
| 04:26 |
hmmmm |
some more useful questions to answer might be: |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- how often are you getting the serialization errors? |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- what servers are you connecting to with them? |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- what mods do these servers run? |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- what ARE the serialization errors for, specifically? |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- what versions are the servers |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
- what version of minetest are YOU running |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
i mean you're free to do whatever you'd like, i'm just saying it's extremely likely to be a waste of time. |
| 04:28 |
cheapie |
How often: depends on network load, usually every 30 seconds to 5 minutes |
| 04:28 |
cheapie |
Servers: Any non-local server |
| 04:28 |
cheapie |
Mods: Varies, the more mods the more errors |
| 04:29 |
cheapie |
What they're for: Lots of different things |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
"lots of things" |
| 04:29 |
cheapie |
Client/Server version: It's been happening as far back as I remember |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
see, that's not useful |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
a pastebin with some errors would be useful |
| 04:30 |
cheapie |
Hold on, let me see what the next one ends up being. |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
i've played on remote servers plenty of times and i've never seen a single serialization error |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
if this is as widespread of an issue as you're claiming, we'd see waaay too many complaints |
| 04:31 |
cheapie |
deSerializeLongString: size not read |
| 04:32 |
est31 |
I thought cheapie has experienced #2541 |
| 04:32 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2541 -- Singleplayer World Crashes - Malformed Packet Read, Server Running Different Version of Minetest. |
| 04:32 |
cheapie |
est31: I've gotten that one too. |
| 04:32 |
cheapie |
Back when MT used to show the contents of the bad packet, I did see things like the "0=hdf_65.png:���q�d3/�\�DL�������q�d4/�\�DL���0���q�d5/�\�k |
| 04:32 |
cheapie |
\�������q�d6/�\�k\��� ���q�d7/�\�k\���0���q�d8/�P�DL���d9/� |
| 04:32 |
cheapie |
�������+@���q�d:/� �������y`���q�d;/� �����+@���q�d</� |
| 04:32 |
cheapie |
��U����0.png:340," in the bug report. |
| 04:33 |
hmmmm |
does this happen if you switch to 0.4.12 |
| 04:33 |
cheapie |
Latest git as of about a week ago, yes. What's currently in there won't even compile for me. |
| 04:34 |
est31 |
which compiler do you use? |
| 04:34 |
cheapie |
GCC 4.9.2 |
| 04:35 |
hmmmm |
pastebins of error messages are very helpful |
| 04:35 |
hmmmm |
making vague complaints in the dev channel is not |
| 04:35 |
est31 |
^ |
| 04:35 |
cheapie |
See bug #2541. I get those same messages. |
| 04:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2541 -- Singleplayer World Crashes - Malformed Packet Read, Server Running Different Version of Minetest. |
| 04:36 |
hmmmm |
I was mostly referring to the compilation error |
| 04:36 |
hmmmm |
so yeah, if you could switch to 0.4.12-stable and see if the error persists that'd help.. |
| 04:36 |
hmmmm |
that would be the most telling in fact |
| 04:37 |
cheapie |
I'm currently on the stable-0.4 branch, since master won't compile. |
| 04:37 |
est31 |
can you post the compilation error on a pastebin? |
| 04:38 |
cheapie |
OK, just a second. |
| 04:38 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 04:38 |
hmmmm |
okay then |
| 04:38 |
hmmmm |
so we just proved it's not another nerzhul error |
| 04:38 |
hmmmm |
that rules out a lot |
| 04:38 |
est31 |
its only the client |
| 04:38 |
hmmmm |
oh true |
| 04:39 |
hmmmm |
the servers could be running nerzhul versions |
| 04:39 |
hmmmm |
hrrmm, grr.. surely there must be some 0.4.12-stable servers out there... |
| 04:39 |
cheapie |
This has been happening since the 0.4.9 days, it's just only recently that it kicks me out instead of just a warning in the chat. |
| 04:40 |
hmmmm |
with the same frequency? |
| 04:40 |
hmmmm |
and have you been using the same OS? |
| 04:41 |
cheapie |
I've been using several different versions of various Debian-based distros, and yes, more or less the same frequency (still network load dependent). |
| 04:41 |
cheapie |
The compilation error (unrelated to the network problems): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10825161/ |
| 04:41 |
est31 |
does make clean help? |
| 04:41 |
cheapie |
That was after a make clean. |
| 04:42 |
hmmmm |
jsoncpp is bundled only right? |
| 04:42 |
cheapie |
I have no clue. Is it a submodule or something? |
| 04:42 |
hmmmm |
or is it using the system version |
| 04:42 |
est31 |
"using bundled JSONCPP" |
| 04:42 |
hmmmm |
oh derrr |
| 04:42 |
est31 |
right in the log |
| 04:42 |
hmmmm |
i can't read |
| 04:44 |
hmmmm |
this could be related to shadowninja's build system cleanup |
| 04:45 |
est31 |
cheapie, can you try this commit: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/284fefb0c32e8222fadd78eeec6e7e718fe25668 |
| 04:45 |
hmmmm |
cheapie, does minetest compile at 284fefb0c32e8222fadd78eeec6e7e718fe25668 ? |
| 04:45 |
est31 |
:p first |
| 04:45 |
hmmmm |
by like a half second |
| 04:45 |
est31 |
4 |
| 04:45 |
hmmmm |
you lag |
| 04:45 |
cheapie |
Trying now... |
| 04:46 |
hmmmm |
with regard to the network errors |
| 04:46 |
cheapie |
It does. |
| 04:46 |
hmmmm |
alright |
| 04:46 |
hmmmm |
try at 93fcab952b28f4db39d9326b83f14cbd86c0cf17 |
| 04:47 |
cheapie |
Trying now... |
| 04:47 |
hmmmm |
so anyway about the network errors: have you been using the same computer to play minetest since you noticed this happening? |
| 04:47 |
hmmmm |
does it happen on a /different/ computer? |
| 04:47 |
cheapie |
I've experienced these errors on at least four different computers. |
| 04:48 |
hmmmm |
again, happening at the same frequency as you experience right now? |
| 04:48 |
cheapie |
More or less, yes. |
| 04:48 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 04:48 |
cheapie |
93fcab952b28f4db39d9326b83f14cbd86c0cf17 does not compile. |
| 04:48 |
hmmmm |
okay well thank you for that =] |
| 04:49 |
hmmmm |
anyway the reason why I doubt it has anything to do with corrupted data |
| 04:49 |
cheapie |
I see "* Add option to search for and use system JSONCPP." in the description; that's probably related. |
| 04:49 |
* cheapie |
tries installing libjsoncpp-dev |
| 04:49 |
hmmmm |
i just checked and udp checksumming is pretty much universally enabled by all OSes |
| 04:50 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: Yeah, I'm getting packets with checksums from the server, I just checked. |
| 04:50 |
hmmmm |
if a UDP packet fails checksum it'll just drop the packets |
| 04:50 |
hmmmm |
normally |
| 04:50 |
hmmmm |
and if the packet is dropped, it just gets retransmitted |
| 04:50 |
hmmmm |
so if you can verify with 100% certainty that they're failing checksums and they're getting passed onto the application, then you have an OS configuration problem i'd say... |
| 04:51 |
cheapie |
93fcab952b28f4db39d9326b83f14cbd86c0cf17 does not compile, even with libjsoncpp-dev installed (and it still says it's using the bundled version). |
| 04:51 |
* cheapie |
looks to see if any failed checksums right before it crashed |
| 04:51 |
hmmmm |
cheapie: FWIW TCP does the same thing. TCP also has a checksum and if the checksum fails, the packet is dropped without an ack and it gets retransmitted |
| 04:52 |
hmmmm |
the only difference here is that TCP automatically does the retransmission part; minetest has its own retransmission protocol |
| 04:52 |
hmmmm |
the reason why minetest *doesn't* use TCP is because of the high latency caused by the in-order delivery guarantee |
| 04:52 |
cheapie |
The last hundred or so packets before the crash all seem to have the correct checksum. |
| 04:53 |
hmmmm |
the internet has been optimized to hell and back, for sure, but it's fundamentally inefficient due to its layer of abstraction designed to make it work just like a UNIX stream |
| 04:53 |
* cheapie |
watches the living room DVR continue to send out ARP packets looking for the gateway every five seconds |
| 04:54 |
hmmmm |
so minetest udp is basically tcp, without the in-order guarantee. which is basically what bittorrent and many others do as well |
| 04:54 |
cheapie |
Huh, you'd think it would work then. |
| 04:54 |
hmmmm |
I'll be the first to admit the implementation is not optimal.. there are those who have gotten it correct, like enet which is used for many games and works excellent |
| 04:54 |
hmmmm |
but it does not corrupt data like that |
| 04:55 |
cheapie |
...which then raises the question as to why MT felt the need to reinvent the wheel. |
| 04:55 |
hmmmm |
so UDP is fine. if minetest is receiving udp packets that had their contents corrupted that's an OS problem |
| 04:55 |
est31 |
cheapie, can you try to build with -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1 ? |
| 04:55 |
hmmmm |
cheapie: the answer is because routers don't support anything other than TCP and UDP. |
| 04:56 |
cheapie |
How do online games use "enet", then? |
| 04:56 |
est31 |
enet is udp too I presume |
| 04:56 |
hmmmm |
because they use UDP, with their own features bolted on |
| 04:56 |
cheapie |
est31: "Could NOT find JSONCPP (missing: JSON_INCLUDE_DIR)", even though it is installed. |
| 04:56 |
hmmmm |
enet is a good reliable udp implementation |
| 04:57 |
hmmmm |
anyway back to the compilation error |
| 04:57 |
est31 |
cheapie, can you paste the output of "dpkg-query -L jsoncpp-dev" to a pastebin? |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
oh yeah that's probably the issue |
| 04:58 |
est31 |
or libjsoncpp-dev |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
it's getting the jsoncpp header from the system directory before the local directory |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
you can't mix and match headers from a different version from the object files |
| 04:58 |
cheapie |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10825193/ |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
at least that's my theory |
| 04:59 |
cheapie |
The -dev and "normal" jsoncpp packages were installed at the same time, so they *should* be the same version. |
| 04:59 |
est31 |
but the bundled jsoncpp can have another version than your systems |
| 04:59 |
est31 |
thats what hmmmm means I think |
| 05:00 |
cheapie |
It's version 0.6.0~rc2-3.1. |
| 05:00 |
hmmmm |
cheapie, what happens if you remove cmake/Modules/FindJson.cmake line 25? |
| 05:00 |
hmmmm |
(clean, reconfigure and rebuild after this change obviously) |
| 05:01 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: Latest or 93fcab952b28f4db39d9326b83f14cbd86c0cf17? |
| 05:01 |
hmmmm |
latest I guess |
| 05:01 |
hmmmm |
it doesn't really make a difference |
| 05:02 |
est31 |
weird for me its also writing: -- Could NOT find JSONCPP (missing: JSON_INCLUDE_DIR) |
| 05:02 |
est31 |
somehow that detection doesnt work at all |
| 05:02 |
* cheapie |
comments that line and tries again |
| 05:03 |
hmmmm |
=/ we'll fix the system detection later, let's just get the bundled crap working |
| 05:03 |
hmmmm |
bundled versions are supposed to safeguard against this kind of problem from happening |
| 05:03 |
est31 |
agreed |
| 05:03 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: It compiles now. |
| 05:03 |
hmmmm |
hrmmmm |
| 05:04 |
est31 |
this makes it work: http://pastie.org/10093163 |
| 05:07 |
est31 |
this too, and is even better: find_path(JSON_INCLUDE_DIR json/featurdes.h PATH_SUFFIXES jsoncpp) |
| 05:07 |
est31 |
umm not des.h |
| 05:07 |
hmmmm |
i don't know |
| 05:08 |
hmmmm |
my guess is that add_subdirectory(json) overrides JSON_INCLUDE_DIR possibly |
| 05:08 |
est31 |
add_subdirectory should only trigger the cmake process for the ${PROJECT_SOURCE_DIR}/json directory |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
cheapie: what happens if you move add_subdirectory(json) after message(STATUS "using bundled jsoncpp library") but before set(JSON_INCLUDE_DIR ... ) |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
est31, how come it gets compiled just fine without add_subdirectory? |
| 05:10 |
cheapie |
Trying now... |
| 05:10 |
hmmmm |
also I wonder if changing it to include_directories fixes it |
| 05:11 |
est31 |
good question hmmmm. |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
erm, include_directories is for something completely different =] |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
whoops |
| 05:12 |
est31 |
cheapie, can you add a "#error "this is bundled jsoncpp"" to src/json/jsoncpp.cpp, and try with the cmake line commented out like you have now? |
| 05:12 |
cheapie |
hmmmm: Moving the line failed. |
| 05:12 |
cheapie |
est31: OK, trying now. |
| 05:13 |
est31 |
it will fail |
| 05:13 |
est31 |
I'm more interested in the error message |
| 05:13 |
est31 |
(if it won't fail, then somehow we use system's jsoncpp) |
| 05:15 |
cheapie |
est31: With the add_subdirectory line commented out and the #error added, the build succeeds. |
| 05:15 |
est31 |
highly weird |
| 05:16 |
est31 |
can you paste a log? |
| 05:16 |
cheapie |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10825232/ |
| 05:20 |
est31 |
very interesting, in the first log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10825161/ |
| 05:20 |
est31 |
"Linking CXX static library libjsoncpp.a" |
| 05:20 |
est31 |
/usr/bin/ar: CMakeFiles/jsoncpp.dir/jsoncpp.cpp.o: plugin needed to handle lto object |
| 05:20 |
est31 |
/usr/bin/ranlib: jsoncpp.cpp.o: plugin needed to handle lto object |
| 05:20 |
* cheapie |
wonders if his old set of cflags and stuff are still in there |
| 05:21 |
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| 05:21 |
cheapie |
Yep, -flto is still in my cflags, cxxflags, and ldflags. |
| 05:22 |
* cheapie |
tries without it |
| 05:23 |
cheapie |
That appears to have succeeded, even with a "stock" copy of all of the files. |
| 05:24 |
est31 |
nice |
| 05:24 |
cheapie |
So I guess that was the problem, then.... |
| 05:24 |
est31 |
yes |
| 05:24 |
est31 |
but still thanks |
| 05:24 |
est31 |
--> somehow the detection doesnt work for debian based distros |
| 05:30 |
est31 |
now it works |
| 05:30 |
est31 |
highly weird |
| 05:31 |
est31 |
whatever |
| 05:33 |
est31 |
about password changing in the new protocol |
| 05:34 |
est31 |
it isn't so simple anymore, just sending the old password doesn't work |
| 05:34 |
est31 |
shouldn't be done I mean |
| 05:34 |
est31 |
so either we drop the requirement to pass the old password to the server |
| 05:34 |
est31 |
or we introduce additional complexity |
| 05:36 |
hmmmm |
send the new verifier along with the old password's proof |
| 05:37 |
est31 |
how do you mean that? I'm talking about the password change which is done while the game is running. |
| 05:37 |
est31 |
not at login |
| 05:37 |
hmmmm |
you could initialize another pseudo-login |
| 05:38 |
hmmmm |
but then there's the issue of asking a player to re-enter their password in game |
| 05:38 |
hmmmm |
I don't think that's too much of a deal though |
| 05:39 |
est31 |
It is accessed via mainmenu |
| 05:39 |
est31 |
so yes ppl can confuse it |
| 05:39 |
hmmmm |
btw are we using the keys generated during SRP logon as the session crypto keys? |
| 05:39 |
est31 |
but you can distinguish |
| 05:39 |
est31 |
we dont have any crypto |
| 05:39 |
hmmmm |
I know but i mean do you plan on it |
| 05:40 |
est31 |
I'd suggest using them yes |
| 05:40 |
est31 |
idk whether I'll do that change though |
| 05:40 |
hmmmm |
yeah not yet |
| 05:41 |
hmmmm |
anyway even though changing the password would change the asymmetric keys, it shouldn't change the symmetric key |
| 05:41 |
hmmmm |
so there's no need to switch over in theory |
| 05:41 |
est31 |
yes, thats to be figured out then |
| 05:43 |
est31 |
we only require password re-entry because one could give the session to another person to play, and one doesnt want to enable them to change the password, right? |
| 05:44 |
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| 05:48 |
est31 |
perhaps the pseudo login sounds good |
| 05:49 |
est31 |
It is possible |
| 05:49 |
est31 |
but there is no real requirement to do it now |
| 05:49 |
est31 |
because its later protocol |
| 05:49 |
est31 |
not affecting init packets. |
| 06:11 |
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| 06:12 |
paramat |
will push #2626 when checks are done |
| 06:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2626 -- Mgv5/mgv6: Add missing data types to recently added constants by paramat |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
wait why |
| 06:13 |
hmmmm |
does it give some kind of warning otherwise? |
| 06:14 |
hmmmm |
if you're looking for a type-safe constant, you could either use the very idiomatic-C++ "static const type FOO_BAR = 5.f;" or the C-idiomatic "#define FOO_BAR ((type)5.f)" |
| 06:24 |
paramat |
i don't get warnings, it seems good practice though, otherwise how is the data type defined for a constant '#define'd in a header.. |
| 06:25 |
hmmmm |
you shouldn't use casts unless you need to |
| 06:25 |
hmmmm |
if you want a type-safe macro, however, you should include the cast in the macro definition |
| 06:26 |
paramat |
the constants are used in arithmetic so it seemed to me they should have a data type matching other terms in the arithmetic? |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
types within an expression of varying types get upcasted if necessary |
| 06:28 |
paramat |
okay. i saw c55's code '(float)AVERAGE_MUD_AMOUNT' and learnt from that. okay so i won't push this |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
it may or may not be necessary depending on the context |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
it probably isn't |
| 06:31 |
paramat |
the constants i want seen as floats are #defined with decimal points, so i guess that ensures they remain floats |
| 06:37 |
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| 06:38 |
paramat |
okay cool, less work for me, closing PR |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
well actually number literals with decimal points not prefixed with f are doubles, not floats |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
5.0 is a double, 5.0f or 5.f are floats |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
5 is an int, 5u is an unsigned int |
| 06:40 |
Krock |
(u32)5 is hacked unsigned int |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
or a u32... if the system integer is larger than 32 bits, that would cause silent value truncation |
| 06:42 |
paramat |
i see |
| 06:45 |
Krock |
hmmmm, would you agree with pull 2618? |
| 06:47 |
hmmmm |
#2618 |
| 06:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2618 -- 20s timeout when connecting to server by SmallJoker |
| 06:47 |
hmmmm |
yea |
| 06:48 |
Krock |
paramat, would you agree for that one too? |
| 06:49 |
* paramat |
looks |
| 06:52 |
paramat |
well erm .. is there a need for this? the arguments against it have simplicity on their side =) |
| 06:53 |
Krock |
my best argument is the "fix" in Game::limitFps. |
| 06:54 |
paramat |
ah, the bit i don't understand |
| 06:54 |
Krock |
Well, if it's new initialized, it would cause a huge busy_time |
| 06:56 |
Krock |
without that fix, it would require useless codes for the timeout part |
| 06:57 |
paramat |
if the timeout itself does some good in that way then the PR seems okay to me, i don't feel qualified to judge, i'll trust what hmmmmm says =) |
| 06:58 |
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| 06:59 |
Krock |
uhm. okay. |
| 06:59 |
hmmmm |
i already looked at it |
| 06:59 |
hmmmm |
it's fine |
| 07:00 |
hmmmm |
it's a useful feature, it does what it's supposed to, it's simple, elegant, what more could you want? |
| 07:01 |
Krock |
You said something about the threading a while back but I doupt it's a theme for that specified commit |
| 07:02 |
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| 07:12 |
est31 |
so, the protocol will look like this: http://pastebin.com/tjVriPP4 |
| 07:13 |
est31 |
(SudoMode name comes from github sudomode) |
| 07:13 |
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| 09:10 |
OldCoder |
Hello. Can player names be changed on the fly in Lua? |
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| 09:53 |
crazyR |
OldCoder. you could modify the auth_handler to do it. i used a similar method for being able to delete accounts on the fly |
| 09:54 |
crazyR |
il the only issue is the user in question would have to be kicked if he/she was online when you changed there name |
| 09:55 |
crazyR |
il work on something quicklu for you now. and send you a link |
| 10:06 |
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| 10:06 |
OldCoder |
crazyR, Thank you |
| 10:06 |
OldCoder |
If they are kicked when they go AFK it defeats the purpose but this feature is still potentially useful |
| 10:16 |
OldCoder |
crazyR, no rush; but if you work up something you'd like tested, email me and it goes into my worlds |
| 10:17 |
OldCoder |
It's 3:17am here so I may not be awake much longer |
| 10:17 |
OldCoder |
oldcoder yahoo.com and oldcodermail.com |
| 10:23 |
crazyR |
no worries OldCoder it will be on a git repo anyway, so il send you a link when its ready. |
| 10:24 |
crazyR |
how does minetest.update_player_name(oldname,newname) sounds for the function? and chatcommand : /changeplayername <oldname> <newname> |
| 10:29 |
Krock |
why not player:set_player_name() ? |
| 10:30 |
crazyR |
becaause its part of the auth handler. not built in. meaning from the auth hander i dont think i can add a function to the player object. |
| 10:30 |
crazyR |
not as a mod anyway |
| 10:31 |
OldCoder |
Reviewing |
| 10:31 |
Krock |
crazyR, let him sleep :P |
| 10:31 |
OldCoder |
No, it's fine |
| 10:31 |
OldCoder |
Sounds good; the kick is automatic? |
| 10:31 |
crazyR |
yes |
| 10:31 |
OldCoder |
Very well |
| 10:31 |
OldCoder |
I'll be pleased to test |
| 10:32 |
OldCoder |
Same offer is made to others who need testing |
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| 14:40 |
luizrpgluiz |
I can promote my Portuguese in server minetest of servers in a forum? |
| 14:43 |
luizrpgluiz |
because I was with this question and I may have thought that if I put in Portuguese can have my post removed |
| 14:43 |
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| 14:43 |
kilbith |
luizrpgluiz -> #minetest |
| 14:43 |
kilbith |
for Nth time... |
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| 15:43 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/minetest/forum.minetest.net_template1/issues/5 |
| 15:43 |
celeron55 |
a minor discussion started about forum spam in here |
| 15:46 |
Calinou |
I guess using less popular forum systems make you less spammable |
| 15:47 |
Calinou |
but we're not going to switch again :p |
| 15:57 |
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| 16:04 |
kilbith |
not necessarily a captcha though, maybe answering to a simple question |
| 16:06 |
kilbith |
so that we can sort the idiots instead of the myopics |
| 16:14 |
Krock |
questions like "one plus two" might be helpful |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:16 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, would you agree with #2618? |
| 16:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2618 -- 20s timeout when connecting to server by SmallJoker |
| 16:25 |
celeron55 |
it's possible to set up a question with phpbb's configuration options, but that's probably even easier for spammers |
| 16:26 |
celeron55 |
a custom captcha or a custom javascript checkbox could work much better |
| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
then they couldn't use their pre-made phpbb spambots |
| 16:27 |
kilbith |
or a Minetest-themed question(s) that the algorythms could deal |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
that's hard because most forum users are idiots |
| 16:27 |
kilbith |
*couln't, sorry |
| 16:27 |
kilbith |
*couldn't |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
and so far we have wanted the idiots too |
| 16:28 |
sfan5 |
what about the people that have javascript disabled? |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
they can whitelist it for the single time they register on the forum |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
not a big deal |
| 16:29 |
celeron55 |
well i mean, on punbb we previously had questions |
| 16:30 |
celeron55 |
but then xyz installed an automatic thing that didn't ask anything from the users but still avoided spambots |
| 16:30 |
celeron55 |
and then came phpbb and we have too much spam again |
| 16:31 |
celeron55 |
that's the history |
| 16:31 |
Krock |
More spam -> more moderators -> less spam -> less moderators -> more spam |
| 16:31 |
Krock |
^ definitely _not_ hlpful |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:34 |
kilbith |
or that : https://lut.im/n7P4ja6z/Tp3n4aM1 |
| 16:34 |
kilbith |
you must enter 3 letters preceding your email in the confirmation field |
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| 19:19 |
ShadowNinja |
#2628 |
| 19:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2628 -- Clean up logging by ShadowNinja |
| 20:13 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, Would you agree with pull #2618 ? |
| 20:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2618 -- 20s timeout when connecting to server by SmallJoker |
| 20:16 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: I'd prefer if you used an IntervalLimiter (see util/numeric.h). |
| 20:16 |
ShadowNinja |
And I think the extra conditional you added can just be " || time" on the existing line. |
| 20:17 |
ShadowNinja |
I'd also word it "Connection timed out.", and wrap it in a gettext call. |
| 20:18 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: Well, actually an IntervalLimiter isn't really appropriate, leave that as is. |
| 20:22 |
Krock |
okay |
| 20:25 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, what exactly do you mean with "can just be " || time" on the existing line." |
| 20:26 |
Krock |
Did you mean the line when "u32 last_time" is defined? I didn't know that's an allowed operation |
| 20:26 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: u32 last_time = fps_timings->last_time || time; Will only work if C++'s or operator returns the first truthy value though, which I'm not sure of. |
| 20:27 |
Krock |
Are there significant performance differences between those two ways? |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
however, looking tomorrow at it. |
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| 22:35 |
wilkgr |
Hello! |
| 22:35 |
wilkgr |
I had an idea for a new command and would like help implementing |
| 22:35 |
wilkgr |
it |
| 22:36 |
wilkgr |
The command is for multiplayer and change the players name to their name but with "(AFK)" behind it |
| 22:36 |
wilkgr |
So mine would be wilkgr (AFK) |
| 22:36 |
wilkgr |
Maybe use /afk to toggle on and off |
| 22:37 |
wilkgr |
What do you think and how would this be implemented |
| 22:39 |
hmmmm |
that sounds like it'd be a good mod |
| 22:39 |
wilkgr |
Thanks |
| 22:39 |
wilkgr |
OldCoder sent me to this channel |
| 22:41 |
hmmmm |
the issue is that there's no obvious way to write a mod which does this |
| 22:41 |
wilkgr |
On servers with PvP, it might disable damage as well as movement and that kind of thing |
| 22:41 |
hmmmm |
at least, until hud drawing is handled by lua |
| 22:41 |
wilkgr |
Maybe integrate it into Minetest |
| 22:41 |
OldCoder |
Hi |
| 22:41 |
wilkgr |
Or LuaController |
| 22:41 |
wilkgr |
Oh hello OldCoder |
| 22:41 |
OldCoder |
wilkgr, they are pretty busy here |
| 22:42 |
wilkgr |
I'm patient |
| 22:42 |
OldCoder |
The idea was for you to ask a few questions, listen, and learn |
| 22:42 |
OldCoder |
More general discussion happens in #minetest |
| 22:42 |
wilkgr |
I did ask a couple of questions |
| 22:42 |
OldCoder |
Sounds good, enjoy |
| 22:42 |
hmmmm |
it would be a good idea for you to make an issue as a feature request on the github issue tracker |
| 22:42 |
hmmmm |
the problem with IRC is that it's very temporal; discussion about neat ideas like this would easily get lost |
| 22:43 |
OldCoder |
wilkgr, we actually have the feature as of last night |
| 22:43 |
OldCoder |
But the catch is that it kicks the player it is applied to |
| 22:43 |
OldCoder |
Which defeats the purpose |
| 22:44 |
wilkgr |
I'll try it |
| 22:44 |
wilkgr |
But ok |
| 22:44 |
OldCoder |
Somebody has suggested a different approach, which is to modify the health indicator |
| 22:44 |
OldCoder |
If you wish the code, ask me later; I think it was emailed to me |
| 22:44 |
hmmmm |
instead of changing the player name, what you're actually doing is appending a status tag to places where the player name is displayed |
| 22:44 |
wilkgr |
-!- invalid command: afk |
| 22:44 |
OldCoder |
wilkgr, it is not added to anything yet :-) |
| 22:44 |
wilkgr |
I think I'd like the code |
| 22:45 |
OldCoder |
Let me look for it... |
| 22:45 |
wilkgr |
If you want to eamil it, I can send you my email |
| 22:45 |
hmmmm |
there's a proper way to do this and a hacky way to do this |
| 22:45 |
hmmmm |
what OldCoder is talking about is a hackjob |
| 22:45 |
hmmmm |
the proper way doesn't exist and needs engine support |
| 22:45 |
wilkgr |
I don't mind |
| 22:45 |
OldCoder |
wilkgr, crazyR was working on that but has not sent it yet |
| 22:46 |
OldCoder |
Patience is recommended; you can learn to work on both the server code and at the Lua level |
| 22:46 |
wilkgr |
Sure |
| 22:46 |
OldCoder |
You've done some phone hacking |
| 22:46 |
OldCoder |
Do you know any scripting language similar to Lua? Or C or C++? |
| 22:46 |
wilkgr |
Python, PHP? |
| 22:47 |
OldCoder |
Good start for Lua |
| 22:47 |
wilkgr |
Arduino is based on C or C++, not sure which |
| 22:47 |
OldCoder |
Recommended you write simple mods, which you can test at home |
| 22:47 |
wilkgr |
I do a bit of arduino |
| 22:47 |
OldCoder |
This discussion should probably shift to #minetest |
| 22:47 |
wilkgr |
Sure |
| 22:47 |
crazyR |
Hey oldcoder. i have nearly completed it minus a couple of bugs. but then had to sort something out, im just about to go get some sleep il finish it off first thing tomorrow :) |
| 22:48 |
OldCoder |
No rush! |
| 22:48 |
OldCoder |
Take weeks |
| 22:48 |
OldCoder |
Life is full of parallel threads |
| 22:48 |
wilkgr |
So is a processors life |
| 22:48 |
hmmmm |
this is not core development and belongs in #minetest |
| 22:48 |
OldCoder |
Notified him above |
| 22:48 |
hmmmm |
all of you |
| 22:49 |
OldCoder |
hmmmm, thank you for speaking with him initially |
| 22:50 |
OldCoder |
hmmmm, as a closing note, discussions of how certain types of mods would be done is core development. Questions related to APIs can be explored. |
| 22:52 |
wilkgr |
Thanks a lot, though! |
| 22:53 |
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| 23:47 |
est31 |
hmmmm, do you know how to free a stack variable? |
| 23:48 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/e298bb88f528904dc542cc62be92d52188333daf#commitcomment-10745522 |
| 23:48 |
est31 |
he is right, there is an according malloc in srp_create_salted_verification_key |
| 23:49 |
est31 |
(and the salt probably needs to be freed too) |
| 23:50 |
est31 |
if you have an idea, write it here or on github |
| 23:50 |
* est31 |
is off |
| 23:50 |
est31 |
(again) |
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