| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
Warr1024 |
exio4: I think polymorphism is more useful in cases where you either (1) have multiple different behaviors, and want to override only SOME of them, or (2) are writing an API for consumers who expect you to use that kind of style :-) |
| 00:00 |
exio4 |
Warr1024: please don't use polymorphism alone to mean subtyping polymorphism :( |
| 00:00 |
Warr1024 |
sorry, I don't really know any other kind of polymorphism |
| 00:01 |
Warr1024 |
Ironically, my day job is writing C# code :-/ |
| 00:02 |
exio4 |
Warr1024: outside that, the "API problem" seems to be a good job for interfaces |
| 00:02 |
exio4 |
classes with multiple inheritance are a mess, and without it they're so limited they are also a mess |
| 00:05 |
Warr1024 |
hmmmm: so, any chance of you being the one to merge PR 2462? Zeno's signed off on it already. |
| 00:05 |
hmmmm |
hold on i've gotta test it |
| 00:05 |
Warr1024 |
oh, cool, thanks |
| 00:07 |
Warr1024 |
I'm also frankly not sure exactly where to balance between "being an active advocate for my PR" vs. "not annoying the core devs" |
| 00:07 |
Warr1024 |
it has been indicated to me in the past that IRC is a perfectly fine place to ask for a review/merge |
| 00:07 |
hmmmm |
yes definitely |
| 00:07 |
Warr1024 |
but then I guess I don't know how patient I should expect to have to be to get something merged |
| 00:08 |
hmmmm |
i at least appreciate you annyoing me because i don't think it'd ever get done otherwise |
| 00:08 |
Warr1024 |
ah, good, thanks then :-) |
| 00:08 |
Warr1024 |
I figured that if it got buried onto the second page of PR's on github, it'd probably never see the light of day, realistically :-) |
| 00:10 |
hmmmm |
hmm I set anisotropic filtering on and i don't see a difference |
| 00:11 |
hmmmm |
do I need to use a different texture pack? |
| 00:11 |
Warr1024 |
I was conservative with the default settings |
| 00:11 |
Warr1024 |
try bumping texture_min_size to something like 64 or higher |
| 00:11 |
Warr1024 |
and use a LOW-res texture pack to see the difference |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
texture_min_size is 64 by default though |
| 00:12 |
Warr1024 |
also, it might help to have a shitty video card, so if yours it too high-end and implements aniso without implicit linear blurring.... |
| 00:12 |
Warr1024 |
oh? I thought I set it to 16 |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
yeah, i have a gtx660 |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
you have it 16 in the conf.example but 64 in the code |
| 00:12 |
Warr1024 |
ah, shit |
| 00:12 |
Warr1024 |
well, that's a bug then |
| 00:12 |
Warr1024 |
I can fix that, unless you wanna do it as part of the mrge process. |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
i'll fix it real quick |
| 00:13 |
Warr1024 |
if you enable linear filtering, do things get blurry? |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
you want the actual setting to be 16? |
| 00:13 |
Warr1024 |
16 default is conservative |
| 00:13 |
Warr1024 |
it'll prevent it from impacting anybody |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
might be a good thing or a bad thing |
| 00:13 |
Warr1024 |
64 will make it visible, but may have a performance impact for very low-end users. |
| 00:14 |
hmmmm |
trilinear filtering + anisotropic looks nice |
| 00:14 |
Warr1024 |
and you won't notice the impact if you don't have linear filtering. |
| 00:14 |
Warr1024 |
on my cheap intel GMA, enabling aniso IMPLIES linear filterng |
| 00:14 |
Warr1024 |
so it looks like arse without this setting. |
| 00:14 |
Warr1024 |
I can handle 64 on my intel GMA 950-something-or-other. |
| 00:15 |
Warr1024 |
256 drops my FPS measurably. |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
wait a minute... |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
what's going on |
| 00:15 |
Warr1024 |
eh? |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
something keeps resetting my config changes |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 00:15 |
Warr1024 |
fair sure it ain't me |
| 00:16 |
Warr1024 |
my touch in the config area was light as hell :-D |
| 00:17 |
hmmmm |
i had like 4 instances of trilinear_filter = |
| 00:18 |
hmmmm |
ahh i can clearly see the effect |
| 00:18 |
hmmmm |
okay, so you want me to change the actual default setting to 16? |
| 00:18 |
hmmmm |
very nice btw |
| 00:20 |
Warr1024 |
sure, 16 will have the least risk for existing players |
| 00:20 |
Warr1024 |
if they bitch about things being too jagged, we can just tell them to enable that setting :-) |
| 00:20 |
Warr1024 |
maybe someday I'll learn how to put it in the UI or something, if there's enough real estate to warrant it. |
| 00:21 |
hmmmm |
heh |
| 00:21 |
hmmmm |
my advice is to run as far away as possible from the UI code |
| 00:25 |
Warr1024 |
awesome, thanks for merging that! |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
np |
| 00:29 |
Jordach |
if we're running out of space why not separate everything into sub formspecs |
| 00:29 |
Jordach |
audio, visuals, gameplay etc |
| 00:41 |
hmmmm |
because it's a lot of work |
| 00:45 |
Warr1024 |
I guess you could add more tabs, assuming that those tabs scroll or wrap or something |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
haha, they don't |
| 00:45 |
Warr1024 |
it might actually be nice to have some "advanced" levels of config or something... |
| 00:46 |
Warr1024 |
I'm not surprised they don't scroll :-) |
| 00:46 |
hmmmm |
I think we can make a custom control that does |
| 00:46 |
hmmmm |
that wraps, maybe |
| 00:46 |
Warr1024 |
or I guess you could just nest tabs on that Settings screen, to keep the main tabs simpler? |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
make a secondary tab list visible/invisible when the first one gets too full :) |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
sure |
| 00:47 |
Warr1024 |
I installed MT on a Windows machine and tried to edit the config file in notepad... no dice, apparently it was a \n text file, not a \r\n fle. |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
i don't like how they need to look like tabs, though |
| 00:47 |
Warr1024 |
I don't think they do need to look like tabs |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
look at other games' config screens |
| 00:48 |
hmmmm |
i think we're ultimately wasting a lot of screen real estate with the current setup |
| 00:48 |
Warr1024 |
yeah |
| 00:49 |
Warr1024 |
frankly, what I'd really like to see would be an interface that parses (or uses a compiled-in version of) minetest.conf.example and just dynamically adds controls |
| 00:49 |
Warr1024 |
I mean, obviously we should consider having "standard" settings and hiding the full monty behind an "Advanced" button or something |
| 00:49 |
hmmmm |
you know, another thing... |
| 00:50 |
hmmmm |
the move from std::list to std::vector is probably a performance *regression* in many cases |
| 00:50 |
hmmmm |
look at Server::m_mods for instance. a ModSpec is a fairly heavyweight structure |
| 00:51 |
Warr1024 |
IIRC lists grow faster, vectors do lookup by index faster, right? |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
each time a new mod is pushed back, it's going to delete and then create a new one |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
it's way more nuanced than that |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
but here, especially, a vector is just a bad choice |
| 00:51 |
Warr1024 |
it's sort of like hashtables vs. red-black trees. The correct answer to "which one is better?" is "for what purpose?" |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
maybe if it were ModSpec * |
| 00:52 |
Warr1024 |
oh, those are large structs/classes stored inline? |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
see, with a std::list, when a new element is pushed back it'd just add a new link to the linked list |
| 00:52 |
Warr1024 |
ha, it actually didn't occur to me that they wouldn't be pointers. |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
with an std::vector, if it happens to trigger an allocation (which it does early on), it clears, destroys, etc. all of the heavyweight std::sets and std::strings (which internally have a lot of heap-allocated members) |
| 00:52 |
Warr1024 |
yep, ouch |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
and then it recopies all of the old elements |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
calls the dtor and calls the ctor |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
doesn't do a dumb copy |
| 00:53 |
Warr1024 |
vectors might be more efficent if you could preallocate intelligently... |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
vectors might be more efficient if you store a lightweight structure |
| 00:53 |
Warr1024 |
oh, it reconstructs them? damn, I'd have expected a memmove() :-) |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
it does |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
try it yourself |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
this is the source of the bug i reverted earlier |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
because of the reallocation, a push_back() operation even will invalidate any iterators |
| 00:54 |
Warr1024 |
this is one of the reasons I prefer straight C when I want to write performance-demanding code... |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
nevermind an erase() call |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
with a std::list, iterators are preserved |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
well tbh this is a problem with using somebody elses' containers |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
not the C++ language |
| 00:55 |
Warr1024 |
true, but you'll have different problems trying to reinvent this stuff... |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
and they're usually much more subtle :( |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
but nonetheless dangerous |
| 00:55 |
Warr1024 |
not for me, I tried to naively reimplement a binary tree and got a SIGSEGV right up. |
| 00:56 |
Warr1024 |
turns out that learning about std::map was more efficient than trying to fix my own impl. |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
erm, I mean using the STL containers the bugs are more subtle |
| 00:56 |
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| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
yea heh |
| 00:56 |
Warr1024 |
ah, ok |
| 00:56 |
Warr1024 |
well, I guess you end up with subtle bugs because everyone fixes the obvious ones |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
i implemented my own B+ tree and needless to say there's a lot of code involved |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
lots of bugs too |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
but once you do get it correct... you're gold |
| 00:56 |
Warr1024 |
subtle ones also tend to become those "load bearing" ones you can't fix because major consumers are dependent on them. |
| 00:57 |
est31 |
lol |
| 00:57 |
Warr1024 |
https://xkcd.com/1172/ |
| 00:57 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/kwolekr/imgcmp/blob/master/src/bptree.c |
| 00:57 |
hmmmm |
i put a lot of effort into this |
| 00:58 |
Warr1024 |
yeah, holy shit. |
| 01:03 |
Warr1024 |
hmmmm: you can also probably definitively close issue #2154, too: just instruct them to run master, and use the texture_min_size config setting now. |
| 01:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2154 -- Texture filtering smoothes textures |
| 01:05 |
hmmmm |
i love closing issues and prs |
| 01:06 |
Warr1024 |
me too :-) |
| 01:16 |
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| 01:23 |
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| 01:29 |
est31 |
#2460 still open for review... |
| 01:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2460 -- Optimize minetest.get_(all_)craft_recipe(s) by ShadowNinja |
| 01:36 |
hmmmm |
I wish GameDefs weren't being passed around but rather an ItemDef, the only part actually needed |
| 01:38 |
hmmmm |
the lack of encapsulation here is astounding, but it's a low-priority problem for another day |
| 01:46 |
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| 01:47 |
est31 |
thanks hmmmm |
| 01:47 |
hmmmm |
sure |
| 03:27 |
WarrTab |
Hey, isn't for(y...) for(x...) better than for(x...) for(y...) for image processing? |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
sure |
| 03:30 |
crazyR |
can anyone suggest a string that i can send to my minetest server via udp and an expected responce? |
| 03:31 |
crazyR |
its to allow me to use pingdom to track the uptime |
| 03:35 |
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| 03:52 |
est31 |
crazyR, https://github.com/minetest/master-server/blob/master/server.py#L135 |
| 03:52 |
est31 |
I also suggest reading this page https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md |
| 03:52 |
est31 |
the bot is at #minetest |
| 03:54 |
crazyR |
thanks :D just what i was looking for :D |
| 03:58 |
Zeno` |
Robots! |
| 04:00 |
est31 |
http://www.ricdes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/bild-1.png |
| 04:01 |
est31 |
(or if you have firefox type about:robots) |
| 04:23 |
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| 05:17 |
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| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
you know what i just realized? |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
the most time-intensive thing about a new feature is coming up with the interface for it |
| 06:50 |
hmmmm |
at least for me... i change my mind on things 50 times |
| 06:50 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: worse yet, you change your mind half-way through coding the feature ;) |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
(I'm guilty of the same though) |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
80% of the done really |
| 06:51 |
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| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
if we didn't have that damn lua api |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
we would've gotten away with it, too! |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
AHHH! blasphemy! :P |
| 07:02 |
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| 08:05 |
hmmmm |
ahhh |
| 08:05 |
hmmmm |
I wonder how we didn't catch these |
| 08:06 |
hmmmm |
clientlauncher.cpp:379, clientlauncher.cpp:398 |
| 08:08 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/util/numeric.cpp#L134 what, everybody else needs to abide by the rule of small rand() ranges except clientlauncher? |
| 08:20 |
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| 11:04 |
nrzkt |
2459 is now closed. The discussion is finished, this PR will not be merged and problems have been discussed. |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:06 |
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| 11:08 |
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| 11:11 |
Krock |
nrzkt, I would like to see 2493 merged but I need two devs to agree. Could you please look at it and tell me what you think? |
| 11:12 |
Zeno` |
#2493 |
| 11:12 |
nrzkt |
i'm not the best for this algorithm, it seems simpler, it's stable, but haven't tested it |
| 11:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2493 -- Connect rails with connect_to_raillike again by SmallJoker |
| 11:13 |
Zeno` |
It could do with a few more comments |
| 11:13 |
Krock |
Okay, I'll try to add simple comments |
| 11:14 |
Zeno` |
E.g. the meaning of is_rail_x_all[0] = is_rail_x[3] || is_rail_x[0] || is_rail_x[5]; is not immediately apparent (although spending a bit looking at it, it's correct. The idea though is not having to look at it for 10 minutes and read every line of code :)) |
| 11:15 |
Krock |
yes, those codes were also confusing me |
| 11:15 |
Zeno` |
The more comments the better IMO (well, apart from int x = 0; // set x to 0 kind of crap heheh) |
| 11:16 |
Krock |
:3 |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:19 |
Zeno` |
I actually looked at the PR about a week ago and it works; and I spent some time deciphering it and trying to think of a different way but I couldn't think of an obviously different way |
| 11:30 |
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| 11:31 |
Krock |
is_rail_x[3] || is_rail_x[0] || is_rail_x[5]; was confusing, [0] [3] [5] is now much easier to read |
| 11:31 |
nrzkt |
0 3 and 5 are cube faces, right ? |
| 11:33 |
Krock |
yes, kinda. |
| 11:33 |
Krock |
well, I've found more unused indexes |
| 11:35 |
nrzkt |
why not have constants to define these ? it could make the code simpler to read |
| 11:35 |
nrzkt |
for example CUBE_FACE_BOTTOM |
| 11:36 |
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| 11:50 |
Krock |
travis/jenkins is useless in this case - going to test that by myself :3 |
| 11:55 |
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| 11:55 |
Krock |
nrzkt, I hope the current comments explain enough :) |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:01 |
Zeno` |
note to self: be careful when testing shader code |
| 12:02 |
Krock |
since when are shaders agressive? |
| 12:03 |
Zeno` |
I used the wrong word... proper word is opencl |
| 12:15 |
Warr1024 |
shader code can be shady sometimes |
| 12:15 |
Warr1024 |
damn github offline for maintenance |
| 12:17 |
Warr1024 |
I got that GUI filtering code further along. |
| 12:17 |
Warr1024 |
VanessaE: fixed the imagebutton filtering. |
| 12:17 |
VanessaE |
oh good |
| 12:17 |
VanessaE |
+ |
| 12:17 |
Warr1024 |
Check out pr_guiscaling now for the squashed edition; guiscaling is now my own development history. |
| 12:18 |
Warr1024 |
I'm going to start using that branch convention for my PR's from now on. |
| 12:19 |
Warr1024 |
I did figure out how to automate a git squash, btw. |
| 12:20 |
Warr1024 |
env EDITOR=myscript git rebase -i upstream branch # :-/ |
| 12:22 |
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| 12:22 |
Warr1024 |
guiscaling doesn't work on android yet. I haven't positively identified the cause yet, but I strongly suspect it's the non-power-of-2 thing. |
| 12:23 |
VanessaE |
it probably is. sapier as I recall had to pad all images to a power-of-2 to make them work |
| 12:26 |
Krock |
Zeno`, may I get a +1? :) |
| 12:31 |
Zeno` |
Krock, ok |
| 12:33 |
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| 12:34 |
Zeno` |
Can another dev also check #2493 please? |
| 12:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2493 -- Connect rails with connect_to_raillike again by SmallJoker |
| 12:34 |
jin_xi |
have you seen blockmens client side fences vid? |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
Warr1024: I can't find your pull request link..what was it? |
| 12:38 |
Zeno` |
this is silly. The PR results in code that's better than before and is (slightly) less confusing. It also has the advantage of working. I'll merge in 30 minutes if nobody else can peer review |
| 12:39 |
VanessaE |
nevermind, found it. |
| 12:43 |
VanessaE |
Warr1024: seems to work fine now |
| 12:44 |
VanessaE |
it adds a noticable delay to the paging in U_I but that can't be helped |
| 12:45 |
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| 12:51 |
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| 12:58 |
Zeno` |
ok merging now |
| 13:02 |
Krock |
\o/ thanks! |
| 13:05 |
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| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
Warr1024: can you please test homedecor modpack's signs_lib with your patch in place? |
| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
(just place a sign and write something on it) |
| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
the rendered text is getting corrupted |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:21 |
VanessaE |
ok it's not your patch. |
| 13:22 |
Warr1024 |
VanessaE: one other thing you could test that would help out would be making sure that you can turn my patch OFF properly |
| 13:22 |
Warr1024 |
i.e. that it doesn't affect anything when disabled |
| 13:23 |
VanessaE |
I'll check that shortly |
| 13:23 |
Warr1024 |
btw, what's the word on use of inline functions? If I have a strong intuition that a function should be inlined, should I mark it inline, or should I always leave that to the compiler to decide? |
| 13:27 |
VanessaE |
idk on that |
| 13:28 |
Warr1024 |
eh, I left it off. Micro-optimization is the root of all evil. :-) |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
fuck. something broke signs_lib :( |
| 13:29 |
Warr1024 |
something in guiscaling, or something in HEAD? |
| 13:29 |
Warr1024 |
(or maybe something in signs_lib?) |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
not sure where, except it's not your patch |
| 13:30 |
Warr1024 |
ah, good...? :-) |
| 13:30 |
VanessaE |
I wonder if it's 1e4fb80d4 |
| 13:30 |
Warr1024 |
well, at least I didn't break anything; I hate being the one to break something. |
| 13:30 |
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| 13:30 |
Warr1024 |
try disabling that. |
| 13:31 |
Warr1024 |
if you set texture_min_size to 1, it'll never upscale anythig |
| 13:31 |
VanessaE |
rolling back to test. |
| 13:31 |
Warr1024 |
and I think texture_clean_transparent. |
| 13:31 |
Warr1024 |
You should be able to disable it via config without having to roll back the actual change. |
| 13:31 |
est31 |
confirmed sth is broken in master |
| 13:31 |
Warr1024 |
IIRC I think we might have made one of those filters, considered low-cost, to be on by default. |
| 13:32 |
Warr1024 |
what's the git address for this signs mod? |
| 13:32 |
Warr1024 |
oh, er, wait, I can try this out on VanessaE's server? |
| 13:32 |
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| 13:32 |
VanessaE |
Warr1024: yeah, digitalaudioconcepts.com 30005 |
| 13:32 |
VanessaE |
that's the quickest one |
| 13:32 |
VanessaE |
the spawn's signs will make it obvious |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
ok, works fine with commit 26153bab |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
so 1e4fb80d is what broke it |
| 13:34 |
VanessaE |
because the texture filter is being applied to entities |
| 13:34 |
Warr1024 |
it's applied to anything with textures |
| 13:34 |
Warr1024 |
ok, it works if you set texture_min_size to 1 |
| 13:35 |
Warr1024 |
texture_clean_transparent doesn't seem to affect it. |
| 13:35 |
Warr1024 |
hm, that means I might need to either bypass the filtering for bitmap fonts |
| 13:35 |
Warr1024 |
or make the bitmap font code handle upscaled textures. |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
those aren't bitmap fonts, per se |
| 13:36 |
VanessaE |
they're a bunch of images bodged together with ^[combine |
| 13:36 |
Warr1024 |
ah, I see how that works. |
| 13:36 |
VanessaE |
so if you move your filter to the end of the compositor chain, that might suffice |
| 13:36 |
Warr1024 |
yeah, but my filter isn't part of the compositor... :-/ |
| 13:37 |
VanessaE |
question then is why are some pixels being duplicated and others being erased |
| 13:37 |
Warr1024 |
I guess the tricky part is that it'll work fine with textures that are composited without pixel offsets |
| 13:37 |
Warr1024 |
but the problem is that those compositor pixel offsets are for the ORIGINAL textures, and don't account for the resized ones |
| 13:38 |
Warr1024 |
ok, so what I probably need to do is find some way to keep the original textures around |
| 13:38 |
Warr1024 |
and when constructing the composited image, use the originals |
| 13:38 |
Warr1024 |
then upscale after compositing. |
| 13:38 |
Warr1024 |
I think I can make that work |
| 13:39 |
Warr1024 |
the workaround for that is to set texture_min_size to 1, for now, which will effectively disable the upscaling filter. |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 13:45 |
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| 13:45 |
VanessaE |
ok yeah, setting it to 1 works around that glitch |
| 13:45 |
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| 13:57 |
Warr1024 |
oh, actually, it looks like the fix might be even simpler |
| 13:57 |
Warr1024 |
I just need to defer the upscaling to right before the image is converted to a texture |
| 13:58 |
Warr1024 |
so that the original image, for image use purposes (i.e. compositing) is unscaled. |
| 13:59 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 13:59 |
* VanessaE |
waits for a patch ;) |
| 13:59 |
* Warr1024 |
tests a candidate patch |
| 14:03 |
Warr1024 |
success |
| 14:03 |
Warr1024 |
check out the compositefix branch in my git |
| 14:03 |
VanessaE |
k |
| 14:04 |
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| 14:04 |
VanessaE |
I'll apply that on top of a clean HEAD first and see |
| 14:04 |
Warr1024 |
also, since you have a better video card than me, you can test with texture_min_size = 256 or 512 or more, to see if the sign text gets sharpened :-) |
| 14:05 |
VanessaE |
ok. (you shoulda seen the mess it made of the text before, when I set that to 128 ;) ) |
| 14:05 |
Warr1024 |
I also can't log onto your creative server, btw, I apparently don't have enough RAM for it. |
| 14:05 |
Warr1024 |
my signs were mostly blank, with just a few pixels here and there, before the fx. |
| 14:06 |
VanessaE |
yeah, 30000 and 30001 need 2-3 GB of RAM on the client, at minimum. |
| 14:06 |
Warr1024 |
I've got 4GB total, but I'm generally using at least half that for something else at any given time |
| 14:07 |
est31 |
Its very bad that minetest prerenders all textures |
| 14:07 |
est31 |
It wasnt done in earlier versions |
| 14:07 |
Warr1024 |
btw, make one of your rules "when requesting interact, also say your name backwards, to prove you read these rules" |
| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
FAIL |
| 14:07 |
Warr1024 |
didn't work for you? |
| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
nope. |
| 14:07 |
est31 |
with all that slabs stuff the list is just sooo long |
| 14:07 |
est31 |
although its only a theory for the ram requirement |
| 14:08 |
est31 |
btw _every_ single combination of cable is its own node |
| 14:08 |
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| 14:08 |
Warr1024 |
argh, I gotta recompile from scratch then |
| 14:08 |
Warr1024 |
I was doing incrementals |
| 14:08 |
Warr1024 |
but they act up for me sometimes, probably an issue with modtime stamps or something |
| 14:08 |
Warr1024 |
just takes SOOO long to compile. |
| 14:08 |
Warr1024 |
compared to an incr |
| 14:11 |
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| 14:13 |
VanessaE |
fwiw, 256 is as high as one ever needs to go, with a 1600x1200, 20" screen |
| 14:14 |
Warr1024 |
VanessaE: clean build worked for me |
| 14:14 |
Warr1024 |
you abs sure you got the right branch? |
| 14:14 |
Warr1024 |
yeah, 256 is really nice, but just a little bit much for my GFX card. |
| 14:14 |
VanessaE |
lemme rebuild just to be sure, then |
| 14:15 |
Warr1024 |
though it's ironic hearing that 256 is all you need, from someone who I believe maintains a 512px texture pack...? |
| 14:15 |
VanessaE |
are you also using your pr_guiscaling patch on top of that? |
| 14:15 |
VanessaE |
yeah, I do maintain the 512px pack but it is indeed overkill ;) |
| 14:15 |
Warr1024 |
no, my fix branch shouldn't contain the gui scaling... |
| 14:16 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 14:16 |
Warr1024 |
since this is a bugfix, I want a simple patch that's quick to review and merge.. |
| 14:16 |
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| 14:16 |
Warr1024 |
I better do a git log --all --graph to be sure |
| 14:16 |
Warr1024 |
yep, this should apply cleanly to HEAD. |
| 14:19 |
VanessaE |
oh it applies fine, but it's definitely not working - in fact it has no effect at all. |
| 14:19 |
VanessaE |
maybe I need to clear my cache |
| 14:20 |
VanessaE |
nope. |
| 14:21 |
Warr1024 |
I can't see any reason why it would work for me and not you |
| 14:22 |
Warr1024 |
this isn't in any really machine-specific or driver-specific area either |
| 14:22 |
VanessaE |
you don't still have texture_min_size=1 set do you? |
| 14:22 |
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| 14:23 |
Warr1024 |
nope |
| 14:23 |
Warr1024 |
64 now |
| 14:23 |
Warr1024 |
I also tested with 256 |
| 14:23 |
Warr1024 |
the text was notably sharper, though my framerate less so |
| 14:24 |
Warr1024 |
also tested with texture_clean_transparent both true and false |
| 14:25 |
Warr1024 |
do you do incremental builds or clean? |
| 14:25 |
VanessaE |
clean. |
| 14:25 |
Warr1024 |
I actually keep my source in one place, then rsync it to a fresh temp dir for the build. |
| 14:25 |
Warr1024 |
I don't 100% trust clean scripts |
| 14:26 |
Warr1024 |
though I guess a git reset --hard && git clean -dfx might work, but be careful with git-clean if you RUN_IN_PLACE, as it may nuke your configs. |
| 14:26 |
Warr1024 |
I RUN_IN_PLACE, but the IN_PLACE from which I run is a dir with a bunch of symlinks to the originals. |
| 14:26 |
Warr1024 |
I did fix a memory leak in the code, so it might not be a bad idea to refetch. |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2003212015%20-%2010%3a28%3a57%20AM.png |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
this is with your patch in place, texture_min_size left at its default, aniso+mip+trilin turned on |
| 14:28 |
VanessaE |
ok, re-cloned, re-fetched, building. |
| 14:28 |
Warr1024 |
you're on ed36b00? |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
I am now. |
| 14:30 |
* VanessaE |
tests... |
| 14:30 |
Warr1024 |
That's what I'm on, with aniso+mip+trilin, min_size 64, and clean_transparent on, and it looks like https://imgur.com/gCxkbDz to me |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
THERE WE GO |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
now it works |
| 14:30 |
Warr1024 |
nice |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
I must have got it between pushes before |
| 14:31 |
Warr1024 |
could be |
| 14:31 |
Warr1024 |
my auto-rebase script also probably needs work. |
| 14:31 |
Warr1024 |
I automatically squash a bunch of commits on XXX branch into one on pr_XXX branch |
| 14:32 |
* VanessaE |
adds pr_guiscaling |
| 14:33 |
Warr1024 |
heh, I'm planning on creating a psuedo-fork at some point that will include all my unmerged PR's atop head, automatically rebased :-) |
| 14:33 |
* est31 |
wonders what became out of that extruded stuff thing |
| 14:34 |
est31 |
and what paramat has against it |
| 14:34 |
VanessaE |
est31: you mean e.g. extruded torches? |
| 14:34 |
est31 |
yep |
| 14:34 |
est31 |
I mean when you drop them, they render fine |
| 14:35 |
est31 |
just placed they can disappear when you look at them from the wrong angle |
| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
oh that |
| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen has an issue for making torches into models |
| 14:36 |
Warr1024 |
#2521 |
| 14:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2521 -- Fix composite textures with texture_min_size. by Warr1024 |
| 14:36 |
est31 |
its also farming stuff |
| 14:36 |
VanessaE |
but we have mesh nodes now, and torchlike drawtype is used for some non-torch stuff so it can't be changed |
| 14:36 |
est31 |
when you look from above, you always get problems |
| 14:36 |
VanessaE |
so better to change the default torches into mesh nodes |
| 14:37 |
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| 14:37 |
est31 |
perhaps add a torchlike_legacy drawtype? |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
no, can't change the existing one |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
otherwise you break everything that relies on it |
| 14:38 |
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| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
and you make it impossible for those things to be used on older versions of minetest |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
(e.g. older clients) |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
better to make a new drawtype that won't ever have a chance of breaking existing mods/games. |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
Zeno`: please review and merge #2521 |
| 14:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2521 -- Fix composite textures with texture_min_size. by Warr1024 |
| 14:39 |
Zeno` |
problem |
| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 14:39 |
est31 |
I dont know any use case where the old "it disappears" mode looks better |
| 14:39 |
Zeno` |
I am in Windows :-o |
| 14:39 |
Zeno` |
I have no idea how to use git in Windows heh |
| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
est31: well having something disappear isn't desirable, but old games rely on the old look |
| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
e.g. Minetest Nostalgia game |
| 14:40 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: Take a look at msysgit and tortoisegit, they're really nice when you have to take a walk on the Windows side. |
| 14:40 |
est31 |
they are already extruded as wielditems |
| 14:40 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, I am so rarely in Windows I'm not sure if it's worth the effort hehe |
| 14:41 |
Zeno` |
so... these textures don't need to be clamped to the ceil power-of-two? |
| 14:41 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: you mean in the texture fix? |
| 14:41 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: I think the clamping happens in other places. |
| 14:41 |
Zeno` |
oh it fixes signs |
| 14:41 |
Zeno` |
I see |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
Yes, it looks good |
| 14:42 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: yeah, I ran into the clamping issue on android in my other upcoming PR code... android is a good platform to confirm that you're being PO2 strict when you need to be :-) |
| 14:42 |
Warr1024 |
awesome, do we need one more coredev to okay it? |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
I have some very fast PO2 ceil and floor functions |
| 14:42 |
Warr1024 |
Jenkins and Travis are having a race to see who can verify the builds first :-) |
| 14:42 |
est31 |
VanessaE, same argument applies for leaving the torchlike behaviour |
| 14:43 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: where? I did it the naive way, myself. |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
well, we need another dev to review and also to merge it :) |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, I haven't added them to MT yet |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
I suppose I could reboot :( |
| 14:43 |
Warr1024 |
ah, are you going to add some generic reusable PO2 code then? |
| 14:44 |
Warr1024 |
that'd be nice |
| 14:44 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, I already have the generic code for use in my personal projects heh |
| 14:44 |
Warr1024 |
if you're feeling generous, MT could use something like that. |
| 14:45 |
Warr1024 |
even something as simple as s32 nextpowerof2(s32) might be nice to have standardized. |
| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
yeah, I've been meaning to make a PR with them for ages anyway |
| 14:45 |
Warr1024 |
I did mine using the old while(a) { a >>=1; b <<=1; } method with a trivial-case check above. |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
you can generalise this: https://github.com/Zeno-/snippets/blob/master/Esieve.c#L91 |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
But I already have a better function which is already generalised |
| 14:47 |
Warr1024 |
oh, wait, there's https://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#RoundUpPowerOf2 |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
which seems very similar to mine, lol |
| 14:48 |
Warr1024 |
yeah, though it'll work with something with known size like u32, but not something potentially platform-specific like int. |
| 14:48 |
Warr1024 |
ironically |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
int won't work anyway |
| 14:48 |
Warr1024 |
since the code uses unsigned int and apparently assumes sizeof(int) == 4 |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
doing bit twiddling on ints is not portable |
| 14:49 |
Warr1024 |
i.e. their example is not strictly correct to begin with. |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
yeah it's not |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
I'll make a PR for numeric.h tomorrow |
| 14:49 |
Warr1024 |
you wanna add your +1 to the texture fix PR? |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
yep |
| 14:50 |
Warr1024 |
good to have a written record in case we can't find another dev while you're around to confirm it. |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
done |
| 14:50 |
Warr1024 |
thanks |
| 14:50 |
Warr1024 |
VanessaE and I have both built and tested it. |
| 14:51 |
Warr1024 |
ah, and we got the thumbs up from CI too |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
reading it, without testing it looks correct |
| 14:52 |
Zeno` |
oh, btw |
| 14:52 |
Zeno` |
thank you for actually commenting your stuff! |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
wow, I forgot how much performance I lose with shaders and aniso et al when I go on VE-S :-/ |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
(at least at spawn - 17 fps @35m, with HDX256 and all the good stuff turned on) |
| 14:55 |
Warr1024 |
heh, you're lucky you still even GET fps. I'd get spf. |
| 14:55 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 14:56 |
kilbith |
just updated my build now, and text on sign_lib looks odd now : https://lut.im/Aj96jFaB/9SRm01aC |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
kilbith: get https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2521 |
| 14:57 |
kilbith |
i've missed something ? |
| 14:57 |
Warr1024 |
kilbith: you're just a little late to the party :-) |
| 14:57 |
Warr1024 |
no, I did. |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
it'll fix that issue. |
| 14:58 |
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| 14:59 |
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| 15:02 |
Zeno` |
brb |
| 15:04 |
|
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| 15:06 |
Zeno` |
Since #2521 fixes a critical error I'll merge in 15 minutes |
| 15:06 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2521 -- Fix composite textures with texture_min_size. by Warr1024 |
| 15:06 |
Zeno` |
Unless someone finds something wrong with it, of course |
| 15:14 |
VanessaE |
huh. one thing the engine still has a problem with is fps sags/spikes when I'm going full-tilt |
| 15:14 |
VanessaE |
oh well |
| 15:16 |
Zeno` |
VanessaE, I'll do some profiles again in a few days. I just hope this isn't the same thing I noticed about 2 weeks ago hehe |
| 15:16 |
Zeno` |
bug fixes first, optimisation second |
| 15:16 |
VanessaE |
it's really only noticeable with e.g. HDX + all the filters + shaders etc |
| 15:16 |
VanessaE |
probably due to mesh regen hangs |
| 15:16 |
VanessaE |
e.g. mesecons blinkyplants |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
The thing I noticed was the framerate (everything, actually)... "freezing" |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
very short pauses |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
and it was pretty much not noticeable using standard textures (HDX128 showed it) |
| 15:18 |
VanessaE |
equivalent to a few frames at a tiome |
| 15:18 |
Zeno` |
and it's very annoying |
| 15:18 |
VanessaE |
time* |
| 15:18 |
Zeno` |
yep, probably the same thing I saw then |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
I assumed it was mesh regen from something periodically changing, hence the blinkyplant comment. meshes are already laggy as it is, and an order of magnitude worse with a HD texture pack |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
nah, it happens with no mods |
| 15:20 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 15:20 |
VanessaE |
wonder what it is then |
| 15:20 |
Zeno` |
not really sure :/ It's pretty hard to track down |
| 15:21 |
Warr1024 |
mesh regen is slower with a HD texture pack? Really? That doesn't make sense to me... |
| 15:21 |
Zeno` |
I tried for a day when I first noticed it but haven't really looked at it since |
| 15:21 |
Warr1024 |
unless it's e.g. reuploading the textures each time... |
| 15:21 |
Warr1024 |
I did notice that using HD textures can increase the complexity of weilditem extrusions significantly, though... |
| 15:22 |
Zeno` |
VanessaE, the event I am talking about is when I gave you the config for a world where I was moving into and out of jungle tree leaves (with no clip) (if you can remember) |
| 15:22 |
VanessaE |
the extrude meshes are precalculated now - textures are sorta "plugged in" I guess |
| 15:22 |
VanessaE |
Zeno`: OH yeah. |
| 15:23 |
VanessaE |
I didn't see the effect there, but I sure see it when wandering around the spawn area of VE-S. |
| 15:27 |
Zeno` |
if you still have the world config I'm sure you'll notice it now that you know what to look for ;) |
| 15:28 |
Zeno` |
merging 2521 now |
| 15:28 |
Zeno` |
hmm link not working |
| 15:29 |
* Zeno` |
refreshes browser |
| 15:29 |
|
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| 15:29 |
Zeno` |
lol, is it just me or is github being very stupid the last day or two? |
| 15:29 |
Zeno` |
people's avatars not showing etc etc |
| 15:30 |
Zeno` |
anyway I can't refresh the PR |
| 15:30 |
Zeno` |
will merge as soon as I can |
| 15:31 |
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| 15:31 |
Zeno` |
done |
| 15:31 |
Warr1024 |
thanks |
| 15:33 |
* Zeno` |
watches tv |
| 15:34 |
|
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| 15:38 |
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| 15:40 |
est31 |
http://pastie.org/10043989 |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
^ happened on 0.4.12 server, dunno what I or sb else did. |
| 15:40 |
est31 |
wasnt even online |
| 15:41 |
Tablet_One |
Does increasing texture_min_size increase RAM useage? |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
it does a bit |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
depends on how many textures are being upscaled |
| 15:43 |
Tablet_One |
Oh... because using texture_min_size 256 on the default textures, my RAM use jumped to 78% |
| 15:43 |
VanessaE |
what game are you using? |
| 15:44 |
Tablet_One |
I'm on JD-PUB |
| 15:44 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 15:44 |
VanessaE |
that would do it |
| 15:44 |
Tablet_One |
Oh lol |
| 15:45 |
VanessaE |
Jordach's games are pretty heavy but not as bad as Dreambuilder ;) |
| 15:45 |
Tablet_One |
Heh |
| 15:45 |
|
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| 15:45 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: how many textures does JD-Pub have? |
| 15:46 |
Jordach |
enough |
| 15:46 |
Jordach |
http://jordach.net/jdpub/ |
| 15:46 |
VanessaE |
or more to the point, what's the nominal amount of RAM a client needs for that server? |
| 15:46 |
Jordach |
my client is just consuming over 1gb |
| 15:47 |
Jordach |
(1,044,644K) |
| 15:47 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: thats the outdated way of doing remote_media |
| 15:47 |
Jordach |
VanessaE does it too |
| 15:47 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: none of us understand the index.mth method. |
| 15:47 |
Jordach |
and your script isn't idiot friendly |
| 15:47 |
sfan5 |
it isn't? |
| 15:48 |
Jordach |
https://gist.github.com/Calinou/d58bd9c1a2ed26cb0b37 |
| 15:48 |
Jordach |
not even any comments |
| 15:48 |
sfan5 |
the index.mth method is just that each file is named by it's sha1 and index.mth contains MTHS<00><01> and all raw binary sha1 hashes |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: is it not self-explanatory? |
| 15:49 |
Jordach |
no, it isnt |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
you set the options and run the script |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
the variable names of the options are self-explanatory too |
| 15:50 |
sfan5 |
LEGACY_SYMLINKS could use an explanation but the rest doesn't need one |
| 15:50 |
Jordach |
no |
| 15:50 |
Jordach |
you've written "self-documenting" code which doesn't mean anything to server hosters who are getting started |
| 15:50 |
sfan5 |
you aren't supposed to look at the code |
| 15:51 |
sfan5 |
you are supposed to look at the part between "#Options" and "function die {" |
| 15:52 |
est31 |
bash is standard knowledge for linux users who want to do more than click some fancy buttons |
| 15:53 |
est31 |
When I got linux, I sat down and learned bash |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
also "<someone else> uses the old way to is probably the worst argument you can make for not doing something |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
to -> too" |
| 15:53 |
est31 |
I still don't know each command's every single option, but I do know how all stuff is tied together. |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: what lines should i add comments to? |
| 15:54 |
Jordach |
all of em |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
you are not being useful |
| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
i need specific lines |
| 15:55 |
Jordach |
you also need to add .b3d to the list of supported formats |
| 15:56 |
sfan5 |
this is exactly why i did not want calinou to have his own version of the script |
| 15:56 |
sfan5 |
https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560 contains b3d support |
| 15:56 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/Server-scripts/update-server-mediafiles.sh does, too |
| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
that's the full, copypaste-enfused version of what Jordach uses. |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
(yeah, I got lazy :P ) |
| 16:05 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 16:10 |
Zeno` |
There is two very concerning issues with minetest. The first is "this code is not used by anything else and therefore it should not be a function" (bullshit). The second is the lack of comments... "You can see what it does by reading the code" (bullshit... a comment should be added to say what the code intends to do) |
| 16:11 |
Zeno` |
the index.mth method is just that each file is named by it's sha1 and index.mth contains MTHS<00><01> and all raw binary sha1 hashes <--- that should be the comment |
| 16:12 |
Warr1024 |
argh, I wish I could figure out how to view a list of PR's and issues in github that I'm watching |
| 16:12 |
Warr1024 |
i.e. any that I've touched, commented on, mention me, I submitted, etc. |
| 16:12 |
Zeno` |
stop with the "wahhhhhhhh it's not used by any other code so it should not be a function" and "wahhhhhh the code explains it" crap :( |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
If this doesn't happen then minetest cannot progress beyond being a toy project full of code that is hard to read and hard to maintain |
| 16:17 |
Zeno` |
seriously. |
| 16:17 |
Warr1024 |
I usually like to use a "screenful" rule, i.e. code that can be understood without scrolling is small enough to inline... |
| 16:17 |
Warr1024 |
though variations on screen size cause me to be inconsistent :-/ |
| 16:18 |
Warr1024 |
Zeno`: That code I added for the transparency filter is actually going to move to a separate function, if my next pr gets merged. |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:37 |
kilbith |
PilzAdam, sfan5 : your [yay/nay] needed on game#443 please. |
| 16:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/443 -- Add vessels shelf by kilbith |
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| 17:12 |
Wayward_One |
is there a new setting i need to change? sign text is messed up for me with the latest git |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:15 |
paramat |
#2501 is still a bug in latest dev |
| 17:15 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2501 -- creative & damage disabled: tnt deals damage and kils player |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
Wayward_One, update to latest Git & recompile |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
there has been a fix |
| 17:18 |
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| 17:19 |
paramat |
the clear registered ores bug is confirmed fixed, thanks |
| 17:24 |
Wayward_One |
ok, thanks Calinou |
| 17:30 |
Jordach |
paramat, you're biomedev works great with current git |
| 17:31 |
Jordach |
i'd also like those trees availble via saplings |
| 17:31 |
paramat |
cool man |
| 17:31 |
paramat |
oh yeah.. |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:32 |
paramat |
i forgot about saplings =/ |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:42 |
paramat |
as the tree designs are different we may need a second set of saplings |
| 17:43 |
paramat |
also i need to write code to create .mts files from lua table defined schematics |
| 17:45 |
est31 |
yaaay now I wanted to confirm whether somebody uses the official app, and no I cant as the server isn't compiled in a debug mode |
| 17:45 |
est31 |
yes really great |
| 17:46 |
est31 |
Its already hard enough to describe the official app to them |
| 17:49 |
paramat |
biomesdev still has a mysterious bug, patches where the trees dissappear for no apparent reason, very noticeable in the jungles which are supposed to be consistently dense |
| 17:51 |
Wayward_One |
hmm, just git pulled and sign text is still messed up :/ |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
warr, where are you! |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
darnit |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
in the meantime you could just set texture_clean_transparent = false |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
paramat: is the clear ore/biome/decoration api still broken for you?? |
| 17:53 |
Wayward_One |
oh, ok |
| 17:54 |
Wayward_One |
thanks hmmmm |
| 17:55 |
hmmmm |
aside from the sign text, do you like the texture cleanup? |
| 17:55 |
paramat |
hmmmm, the 'clear registered ores' bug is confirmed fixed |
| 17:56 |
hmmmm |
k good =] |
| 17:56 |
hmmmm |
that's what happens when people make changes to other peoples' code and they don't test it at all |
| 17:56 |
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| 17:57 |
Wayward_One |
i haven't noticed anything different with the textures |
| 17:58 |
hmmmm |
you run with antialiasing and either bi or trilinear filtering, no? |
| 17:58 |
Wayward_One |
... |
| 17:58 |
hmmmm |
ok |
| 17:58 |
Wayward_One |
well there's my problem xD |
| 17:58 |
Wayward_One |
trying it now |
| 17:58 |
est31 |
paramat, why do you think extruded torches are bad? |
| 17:59 |
paramat |
i bumped issue #2501 up to high priority, anyone know how to fix? |
| 17:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2501 -- creative & damage disabled: tnt deals damage and kils player |
| 17:59 |
paramat |
hi, i explained in the PR |
| 18:00 |
nrzkt |
paramat, only with breath ? |
| 18:00 |
hmmmm |
Warr1024: maybe it would be a good idea to tune texture_min_size = 64, and texture_clean_transparent = false, and then in the texture loading code it'll auto-adjust the defaults if anisotropic is on.. sound good? |
| 18:00 |
paramat |
nrzkt, didn't test with other damage types |
| 18:01 |
nrzkt |
to be sure can you try to take damage from TNT , because this is solved. For breath i'll look at this soon |
| 18:02 |
paramat |
ah TNT would be lua damage so i guess different |
| 18:03 |
est31 |
paramat, so is your main point that 3d torches are bad because they are just fancy stuff nobody needs, or is it more technical issues (whether to extrude the torchlike drawtype, or make meshnodes). |
| 18:04 |
paramat |
est, the plantlike drawtype is so extremely simple and abstract it's just *wrong* when extruded to be fake-3D. so yeah 3D objects should be designed meshnodes |
| 18:05 |
paramat |
i have nothing against 3D torches or plants, i love OCD plants |
| 18:05 |
paramat |
and the Vox game |
| 18:06 |
BlockMen |
paramat, 3d torches with meshes are possible, but you need 2 meshes and 2 nodes and then the placing need to be done serverside, which causes lags |
| 18:06 |
BlockMen |
and furthermore there is needed an abm to convert all current torches to not break existing maps |
| 18:06 |
BlockMen |
doing 3d torches with meshes is shit! |
| 18:07 |
paramat |
the plantlike drawtype should stay flat, and also i feel should remain at 45 degree angles to voxels |
| 18:07 |
BlockMen |
i agree that the plantlike drawtype should stay flat |
| 18:07 |
Wayward_One |
i think i'm missing something... tried the new settings with trilinear filtering and antialiasing enabled, and can't see a difference. also, sign text is still broken for me |
| 18:08 |
paramat |
extrusion for torches only seems okay to me now, for those reasons, but nothing alse |
| 18:08 |
paramat |
(else) |
| 18:08 |
BlockMen |
a new drawtype would be the best for 3d torches |
| 18:08 |
paramat |
although i have nothing against enabling plantlike rotation for modders |
| 18:09 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 18:09 |
est31 |
my main issue with missing torch (and plant) extrusion is that when you look at something from above, it almost dissappears. |
| 18:10 |
est31 |
and the "fake" 3d is some "blockification" of the plant/torch |
| 18:10 |
paramat |
well that's just Minetest. only happens when precisely above, you always know something's there as you move |
| 18:11 |
paramat |
yeah microvoxels are fine but should be done with meshnodes and designed from scratch |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:12 |
est31 |
ok thanks paramat for clarifying your position on this. |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:14 |
paramat |
i just find extruded textures tacky and tasteless, it's sort of an artistic/design issue for me =) |
| 18:17 |
paramat |
so yeah i feel plants should remain at 45 degrees in the world, otherwise it's like rotating voxels to random angles, simply should not be done in a voxel world. the 45 degree angle of plantlike drawtype is ery much part of the character of a voxel world |
| 18:17 |
paramat |
(very) |
| 18:17 |
paramat |
but enable it for modders |
| 18:18 |
est31 |
btw what do you mean with 45 degrees? |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
paramat |
the way plantlike drawtype is at 45 degrees to the world grid when seen from above |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
paramat |
= diagonal |
| 18:42 |
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| 19:54 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/skywinder/github-changelog-generator |
| 19:55 |
est31 |
why did I knew it was ruby even before I clicked the link? |
| 19:56 |
rubenwardy |
Lol |
| 19:59 |
paramat |
hmmmm, #2519 is ready to go if you want to review it, but no rush i'll push it later or tomorrow |
| 19:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2519 -- Mgv7: 1 up , 1 down overgeneration for chunk border continuity by paramat |
| 20:02 |
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| 20:13 |
Jordach |
why does the master server not pickup on the --port minetestserver flag |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:31 |
nrzkt |
#2523 is good. Will merge it in ~10 min if no problem (a little SendInventory improvement which is good). |
| 20:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2523 -- SendInventory on Use (not just Place) by poet-nohit |
| 20:32 |
Calinou |
when was this broken? |
| 20:32 |
Calinou |
(the eating) |
| 20:32 |
nrzkt |
it was related to this problem ? |
| 20:34 |
nrzkt |
if don't know when, but if it's related to this function, maybe it can be related to 1b2f64473ed4f222d3b7f02df853730d4382105e and will be fixed by 2523. |
| 20:35 |
nrzkt |
i will look at all setWieldedItem to be sure there is no new missing call |
| 20:36 |
nrzkt |
no other than the PR fix. This fix is perfectly correct |
| 20:37 |
nrzkt |
it's a missing SendInventory , it's right. I merge it now, no need to check another time, each setWieldItem call SendInventory except the call mentionned by the PR |
| 20:38 |
hmmmm |
paramat: I'll take a look |
| 20:38 |
hmmmm |
paramat: I saw you added a heightmap to mapgen v6 but you didn't replace findGroundLevelFull() calls in placeTreesAndJungleGrass() |
| 20:39 |
paramat |
ah good catch |
| 20:39 |
hmmmm |
I think we should fix any instances related to the mapgen where myrand_range() is being used |
| 20:40 |
hmmmm |
they really should not be based off the global PCG; I don't know why they're like that but I am pretty sure I didn't do that |
| 20:40 |
hmmmm |
aside from the usages in schematics, that's my laziness for not adding a 'seed' parameter :/ |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:41 |
paramat |
i'll use the heightmap in 'place trees and junglegrass', i'm on it |
| 20:41 |
nrzkt |
pushing 2523 now |
| 20:42 |
hmmmm |
:) |
| 20:42 |
hmmmm |
thanks |
| 20:44 |
paramat |
so i guess myrand is not pseudorandom determined by seed, so yes i agree |
| 20:50 |
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| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: what is this?https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2459 |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: what is this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2459 |
| 20:55 |
hmmmm |
what does it look like |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
i don't know, it looks childish and unappropriate |
| 20:56 |
hmmmm |
it's a political statement |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
what do you expect minetest to gain from it |
| 20:57 |
hmmmm |
stability, an increase in network performance, a few bugfixes |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
i'm sorry to say but his network changes were shit |
| 20:58 |
nrzkt |
as i said, there are no problem of stability in the network stack, if you remember. |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
i think they had nice ideas behind them but their implementation was poor. |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
do you have intention to merge the PR yourself |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
obviously that PR can't be merged. at this point in time it's very difficult |
| 21:00 |
nrzkt |
you PR is only a revert which doesn't help anybody to do anything. |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
it could have been done for real, if merged two weeks ago |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt, I found the best way to deal with your shit commits is to revert them |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
you don't discuss anything with anybody prior to merging things and you keep justifying yourself under the guise of them being trivial (they're not) or they're under your domain (they're not) |
| 21:01 |
hmmmm |
you broke HP |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
please be polite, and we could talk. If you don't want to be polite i don't need to talk with you. You think you are minetest saver and you think you want to manage the team whereas you only complain on network when i'm away and you don't proove anything. |
| 21:01 |
hmmmm |
you broke ores/decorations/schematics |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
HP aren't due to network stack. Ores are not broken by myself |
| 21:01 |
hmmmm |
you broke unreliable packet sending |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
no |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
no |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
no |
| 21:01 |
nrzkt |
and NO. |
| 21:01 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2459#event-261321271 |
| 21:01 |
Calinou |
what a kid |
| 21:01 |
Calinou |
we know GitHub issues is incredibly exploitable, this isn't a reason to do this |
| 21:02 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to allow that PR to be open as long as some of the non-vague and non-ridiculous reasons listed in the comments stay valid |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
nzkrt, I would be really happy with you if you weren't so utterly arrogant, posessive, and thoughtless |
| 21:03 |
nrzkt |
and hmmmm: why do you edit my answers on github ! |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
arrogant because you have never failed once to admit a mistake with your code, even when there's very obvious evidence |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
instead you'll say, "well then why don't you fix it?" |
| 21:03 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm: stop edit my answers on my PR. |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
didn't edit anything |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
that's how stupid you do sound in reality |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
both of you are arrogant and posessive, frankly |
| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
when there's a problem with my code, I always give the reporter the benefit of the doubt |
| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
and I do not tell them to fix it on their own |
| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
and I don't tell people they're not allowed to edit mapgen code |
| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
the one time you did edit mapgen code, though, you broke it |
| 21:05 |
nrzkt |
if it's not you, who edit my last comment on PR 2459. I refix it but i said "No, i was the network maintainer", and when the last link was done on IRC i pointed our the "i'm the network maintener" disappear, just when you re-open the issue. Strange in fact, no ? |
| 21:05 |
hmmmm |
you didn't even test to see if your changes worked |
| 21:05 |
hmmmm |
you just changed it, it compiled, and then you committed a consistent, instantaneous crash whenever a feature is used |
| 21:05 |
nrzkt |
no. |
| 21:06 |
hmmmm |
I reverted your commit that caused it, and voila, it works all of a sudden |
| 21:06 |
nrzkt |
stop talking and saying stupid things. I'm doing more tests than you think. |
| 21:06 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt, yes. this is reality |
| 21:06 |
hmmmm |
I can't believe you're denying something that has already happened and is done with |
| 21:06 |
nrzkt |
i agree the commit you revert in fact, because you are right. But stop telling we must revert all my work. |
| 21:06 |
nrzkt |
you also introduce bugs in mapgen sometimes. |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
and I fix them right away |
| 21:07 |
nrzkt |
me too. then stop |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
no you don't |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
you put them in your 0.5-dev branch and say |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
"nope, not fixing it here, it'll get fixed in 0.5-dev" |
| 21:07 |
nrzkt |
and you also removed a comment on this PR. that's very strange in fact. |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
christ, you're worse than proller even |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
what did the comment say |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
what's up with this PR comment thing |
| 21:08 |
nrzkt |
you have a good strategy, remove the communication process to let the PR say what you want, good guy :) |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
this is the only thing that still seems a valid concern in this discussion |
| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
in fact |
| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
I'm going to do that right now |
| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
I'm going to delete all your inflammatory postings on that PR, and I'm going to delete my responses to them |
| 21:08 |
nrzkt |
celeron55, agree. |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to remove anyone from being a core developer who edits github comments and/or actions of other people |
| 21:09 |
nrzkt |
let it close and stop this discussion. Find real bugs, point them, not telling concepts, we are doing code, please |
| 21:09 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt: I don't understand what problem you have with discussion |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
(but i can never prove it) |
| 21:09 |
nrzkt |
celeron55: maybe the github API have some logs ? |
| 21:10 |
hmmmm |
it's too late, I already deleted everything 5 seconds after I said I would |
| 21:10 |
hmmmm |
because it's unproductive and looks stupid |
| 21:10 |
hmmmm |
anything that doesn't have specific details about issues or whatever should go |
| 21:11 |
nrzkt |
if you want to help to improve the network stack you are welcome, but reverting and telling "it's shit" is not a good argument. |
| 21:11 |
hmmmm |
rules: |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
- don't close that PR anymore |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
- don't add any tags to that PR anymore |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
- don't comment anything that isn't constructive |
| 21:12 |
nrzkt |
this PR mustn't be opened. |
| 21:12 |
nrzkt |
it's not mergeable. |
| 21:12 |
nrzkt |
and will not be merged. |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
it just needs to be rebased |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt, what I would like to know is how you got such an attitude |
| 21:12 |
nrzkt |
no hmmmm, you won't revert the network stack. |
| 21:13 |
hmmmm |
why do you feel as if you have the final word here |
| 21:13 |
nrzkt |
because you work on mapgen and me on network. |
| 21:13 |
nrzkt |
i'm the network maintainer. you're the mapgen maintainer. |
| 21:13 |
hmmmm |
the? |
| 21:13 |
hmmmm |
so I can't commit anything else? |
| 21:13 |
hmmmm |
I've done more work elsewhere than I have the mapgen |
| 21:13 |
nrzkt |
/applause |
| 21:14 |
hmmmm |
those labels are arbitrary groupings referring to what your area of expertise is |
| 21:14 |
nrzkt |
and i'm working on the network more than other devs who are connected here, but... and then ? |
| 21:14 |
hmmmm |
the reason why they were created was to make it easier for people who are frequent committers to that area and are more knowledgable of it than anybody else |
| 21:14 |
hmmmm |
no you're not |
| 21:14 |
nrzkt |
please reread the rules. |
| 21:14 |
hmmmm |
you're a newcomer who doesn't look at the code you're modifying before you do it |
| 21:15 |
hmmmm |
you just assume that your changes will work and that's it |
| 21:15 |
hmmmm |
show me the rules that contradict what I say |
| 21:15 |
nrzkt |
i'm using a good IDE which permit to point the modifications area, but if there is a missing thing in the code which is hidden by a bloated test in the AsyncRunStep, sorry i can't see it when i do all my tests, and i do many tests :) |
| 21:16 |
hmmmm |
then how did you miss the clear_registered_ores bug? |
| 21:16 |
hmmmm |
can you please enlighten me |
| 21:17 |
hmmmm |
it's a consistent crash that happens every time any of those apis are called, DIRECTLY resulting from your modification of that code |
| 21:17 |
nrzkt |
http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation |
| 21:17 |
nrzkt |
and this is fixed in master ? |
| 21:17 |
hmmmm |
yes, by reverting your shit |
| 21:17 |
nrzkt |
stop telling "my shit", and we can talk stupid guy |
| 21:17 |
hmmmm |
I'm convinced the best way to deal with your broken nonsense is to just revert it all |
| 21:18 |
nrzkt |
no, because you are just angry and you think every core dev must think like you. |
| 21:18 |
hmmmm |
maybe if you had a better attitude we could work on it |
| 21:19 |
nrzkt |
you mean here: "if you agree with all my rules". It's like i always saw you on IRC with every dev. You want to manage everything like if you are essential, and when you left the team you connects on IRC when i'm away to say, "i must save minetest". SOrry i didn't agree with that, you are only a core dev like others. You are the mapgen maintainer, but a core dev like others. |
| 21:20 |
hmmmm |
all my rules? you mean getting approval for your commits before committing them is my rule? |
| 21:20 |
nrzkt |
and everybody can make mistakes, me , you, anybody. We are humans, not bots |
| 21:20 |
hmmmm |
I must save minetest because it was going in a bad direction when I left |
| 21:20 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to say something extremely boring: the actual truth and the actual right thing to do resides pretty much exactly at the halfway point between what hmmmm and nrzkt think |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
you were turning upstream into some sort of playground for you to break everything |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
no. if you want an unstable playground, Freeminer is your place |
| 21:21 |
nrzkt |
there is no real direction. Where is the roadmap for a future version for our users ? |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
there doesn't need to be a "roadmap" |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
this isn't business software, this is just an open source project |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
where some people can commit some cool features and everybody's happy |
| 21:22 |
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Tablet_One joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:22 |
nrzkt |
i have my own fork for my playground, sorry, you must clean your glasses :p and sorry it's based on minetest and it's perfectly stable :) |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
you're acting like this is some kind of business |
| 21:22 |
nrzkt |
because we have users. |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
in any case, if I were to actually fix your commits that'd be a full time job |
| 21:22 |
nrzkt |
you want retrocompat for users no ? It's business ? No. |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
clean up after the baby's mess |
| 21:23 |
hmmmm |
I want retrocompat for the users because I *respect* them |
| 21:23 |
nrzkt |
if you respect them devel you mapgen and let me work on my network. |
| 21:23 |
hmmmm |
... |
| 21:23 |
hmmmm |
that's a non-sequitor |
| 21:24 |
nrzkt |
sorry i don't understand the word "sequitor" |
| 21:24 |
hmmmm |
oh well then |
| 21:25 |
hmmmm |
the reason why I said I need to save minetest is because I'm the only one with large enough balls to call you out on your BS. |
| 21:25 |
PilzAdam |
praise hmmmm's balls |
| 21:25 |
hmmmm |
I'm not the only one here who feels strongly about the recent turn of events, by any means. I'm just the most vocal |
| 21:26 |
jin_xi |
its a pattern of people arriving eager to contribute and not familiar with mt code and history leading to bugs and alienation all around |
| 21:26 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm stop think you are minetest god. It's a free software we are a community. |
| 21:26 |
nrzkt |
and nobody is perfect, you too. |
| 21:27 |
hmmmm |
jin_xi: good summary... |
| 21:27 |
hmmmm |
at first I left because I just didn't want to deal with it. I don't like arguing |
| 21:27 |
nrzkt |
it's not an argument in your favor, it's a fact :) |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
see also, NFG Syndrome |
| 21:28 |
nrzkt |
i'm not perfect too, and when some code was cleanup maybe there is a loop in the main thread which hide a un-seeable race, that can happen. The network is a little bit different with mapgen, it's also why i want to rewrite all the stack, it's because we are too complicated. |
| 21:29 |
hmmmm |
open source projects don't usually take too kindly to newcomers making huge, sweeping "cleanups" and then expecting them to get merged |
| 21:30 |
jin_xi |
see mgv7 for an earlier example |
| 21:30 |
hmmmm |
it was made reverse compatible though |
| 21:30 |
hmmmm |
and it's still not the default |
| 21:30 |
nrzkt |
in fact hmmmm if you see the network stack it's not simple to do retrocompat on it, but i think you don't read the low level code, you only argue on the fact there are issues somewhere without a real code line in your hand. |
| 21:30 |
hmmmm |
back then, I should have been put in my place though, I agree |
| 21:30 |
hmmmm |
that's not the correct way to do things |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: you need to provide a reasonable path for newcomers to actually get into the project though; you can't just skip that and watch as the project dies |
| 21:31 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt, if you knew the exact line of code breaking things, that'd be already 70% of the work of fixing the bug |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
or, you can, but it's dumb |
| 21:32 |
nrzkt |
if you want me to look at the ore problem, please tell me how to reproduce it and i will fix it soon if you think it's network. |
| 21:32 |
hmmmm |
I don't think that all newcomers want to jump in and make some huge sweeping rewrite |
| 21:32 |
nrzkt |
there is no huge rewrite atm |
| 21:32 |
nrzkt |
the huge rewrite will come later, because i need to write all the stack and do many tests on it |
| 21:32 |
hmmmm |
just the arrogant ones who experience Not Invented Here syndrome |
| 21:33 |
jin_xi |
i think this project lacks appropriate channels for discussion prior to writing code |
| 21:33 |
nrzkt |
jin_xi: agreed :p |
| 21:33 |
nrzkt |
jin_xi: we must create #minetest-fight |
| 21:33 |
exio4 |
there were suggestions for having a mailist list |
| 21:34 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, can you help nrzkt fix the bugs he introduced? |
| 21:34 |
celeron55 |
we have three places for having those discussions (irc, forum, github), but nobody is around to listen to anyone when they want to discuss about new code |
| 21:34 |
hmmmm |
PilzAdam: I can, sure, but I'd rather work on my own things |
| 21:35 |
hmmmm |
look at prestidigitator for example |
| 21:35 |
hmmmm |
all he did was come around and rewrite two files in his own style, with no actual enhancements, and expects us to just merge that |
| 21:35 |
hmmmm |
then start crying when we don't |
| 21:35 |
jin_xi |
irc has temporal problem, forum is too noisy and github is mostly good for smallish stuff about already written code |
| 21:36 |
hmmmm |
this is what I'm talking about the NIH syndrome |
| 21:36 |
hmmmm |
with the& |
| 21:36 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, cleaning up the networking code was on our todo list, though |
| 21:37 |
hmmmm |
and cleaning it up is fundamentally fine |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
jin_xi: i'm fine with someone setting up a mailing list |
| 21:37 |
hmmmm |
like I was saying |
| 21:37 |
hmmmm |
the changes to the network code are fundamentally good |
| 21:37 |
hmmmm |
just poor in execution |
| 21:37 |
nrzkt |
then let me do my work and please help if you have ideas. |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
people have been suggesting a mailing list for like 4 years but nobody has actually ever made one |
| 21:37 |
nrzkt |
and if you haven't looked at our network stack, i invite you to look at it |
| 21:38 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, don't just blame people for doing stuff wrong, help them |
| 21:38 |
hmmmm |
but he's the 'network maintainer' |
| 21:38 |
hmmmm |
he's supposed to be responsible for making it work |
| 21:38 |
nrzkt |
i'm perfectly responsible of what i do. |
| 21:38 |
hmmmm |
okay good then |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
ok I'd like to interject: |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
who's responsible for fixing the flat player glitch then? |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
(players signing in and either coming up as "the green guy" or as a flat player sprite but with the skin texture that belongs on the 3d model) |
| 21:39 |
hmmmm |
the one who broke it :) |
| 21:39 |
nrzkt |
if there is a bug i work on it, and if somebody say it's not the case, please shut up, especially VanessaE for who i worked ~ 24 hours this month to fix problems. |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
let's just start with that one bug. |
| 21:40 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, you spend the last hour telling that nrzkt's code contains bugs |
| 21:40 |
hmmmm |
it was more general talk |
| 21:40 |
PilzAdam |
we are all very surprised by the fact that code can contain bugs, but this doesn't help anyone |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: clearly :P |
| 21:41 |
PilzAdam |
you could have just spend the last hour helping nrzkt to find / fix bugs |
| 21:41 |
hmmmm |
PilzAdam: the discussion was more about what the appropriate response should be when a bug is found by somebody |
| 21:41 |
VanessaE |
but can we stop this argument and focus on finding and fixing these issues? or at least identifying who broke what so that at least the blame is legit? |
| 21:41 |
hmmmm |
I too easily get sucked into unproductive conversations |
| 21:41 |
PilzAdam |
then stop now |
| 21:41 |
nrzkt |
in fact the problem is not WHO cause the cause, the real problem is WHICH CODE cause the bug. |
| 21:42 |
nrzkt |
cause the bug* |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: which, in turn, is the responsibility of whoever wrote that code. hence the person who wrote the code is the person who broke it, and therefore that person should fix it, in theory. |
| 21:42 |
hmmmm |
aahhh * |
| 21:42 |
hmmmm |
see that |
| 21:43 |
hmmmm |
that's continuing on the same conversation we just agreed was unproductive |
| 21:43 |
hmmmm |
idk about you guys, but I'm going to start hiding my IRC window |
| 21:43 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: maybe but that doesn't mean nobody else can fix it if the commiter is not here or stucked ? |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
(and yeah, I just realized how repetitive that sounded :P ) |
| 21:43 |
sfan5 |
this was probably talked about, but who removed Zenos and my comment on #2459? |
| 21:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2459 -- Reset all network-related changes by kwolekr |
| 21:44 |
hmmmm |
sfan5, I deleted everything that wasn't directly related to specific issues |
| 21:44 |
sfan5 |
i see |
| 21:44 |
hmmmm |
that's probably the only time I'd ever delete github comments |
| 21:44 |
hmmmm |
because it's a shitshow and doesn't belong there |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: of course not. anyone interested in a given bug has the authority to fix it (or at least propose a fix), but whoever originally caused the bug should be the one to fix it, if that person is active. "You broke it, you bought it." |
| 21:45 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, do you have a list of bugs that are / might be related to your changes? |
| 21:45 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE, i think i must retrieve the original commiters for some bugs, but maybe they leave the project two years ago , then :p |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: I said "if that person is active"... |
| 21:45 |
nrzkt |
PilzAdam: no. No issue on github |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
"leave the project" != "active". :P |
| 21:46 |
nrzkt |
the only bug i'm working on it is #2501 |
| 21:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2501 -- creative & damage disabled: tnt deals damage and kils player |
| 21:46 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, can you help nrzkt create this list of bugs? |
| 21:46 |
nrzkt |
because i know where does it comes, but i don't have the solution yet |
| 21:46 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, since you seem to have an oversight over this |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: that flat player glitch I mentioned may or may not be network related. it's unclear now. |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
- HP bug |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
- flat player glitch |
| 21:47 |
nrzkt |
i don't think it's network related because packets are forged with the same way. If there is a bug on a packet you will have a corruption on all packets |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
- packets sent as unreliable now being sent as reliable |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
- packets being copied before sending |
| 21:47 |
celeron55 |
if people promise to be around often enough to look at PRs, i could remove nrzkt's network maintainer status if that helps people maintain their trust to each other |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
- (unconfirmed) lower network performance |
| 21:47 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm: please create issues on github with facts |
| 21:47 |
celeron55 |
i'm not convinced of that being the case though |
| 21:47 |
nrzkt |
lower network performance is wrong. |
| 21:47 |
VanessaE |
players being spawned at 0,0,0 even when there's a static spawn point may be network related also |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
that one I'm just going off of peoples' reports to me about it |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
yep, there |
| 21:48 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: i looked at this , but it's not the case as i saw. The packet is strictly identical |
| 21:48 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, can you work with that list? |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
basically if it's a bug that popped up in the past month or so, it's probably caused by nerzhul |
| 21:48 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: the packet's content may be correct, but what about when the packet arrives relative to other data? |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
- bad spelling, grammar in comments, and poor code style on network related code :-P |
| 21:49 |
nrzkt |
no. I need issues and also i need more informations. For the 3rd point it's already fixes. For the 4th point it's on the road but not merged/proposed |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
we also need to go through all of the instances where lists were changed to vectors to verify that they work correctly |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
also we need to verify they aren't performance regressions as is the case with several of the moves |
| 21:49 |
nrzkt |
stop trolling, i'm not english my english is not perfect, stop believe you can laugh on this. |
| 21:50 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, can you create a new issue on github, with the list of bugs, and close #2459 ? |
| 21:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2459 -- Reset all network-related changes by kwolekr |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
why |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
why is that being open such a bane for everybody |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
because it's not helpful |
| 21:50 |
PilzAdam |
PRs that don't get merged get closed |
| 21:50 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm: for the convertion, the only commit which could lead problems but i avoid many problems was the commit you reverted , others doesn't use those methods, they are stupid iterators in loops |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: just a guess, because it starts with the premise of a huge revert. if it started as a bug report with suggested problem commits, it might be more useful. |
| 21:51 |
PilzAdam |
and an issue with a list of bugs is better structured |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: if you actually want to get those issues solved, they need to be reported separately |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: now you're just wanting to make a war |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
:\ |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
and i also hate nrzkt's sloppy coding and testing |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
I'll close it if we get a decent place for discussion of these matters |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
but i am able to weigh on other benefits |
| 21:52 |
PilzAdam |
I'll create an issue then |
| 21:53 |
nrzkt |
thanks PilzAdam, you are helpful :p |
| 21:53 |
nrzkt |
don't report HP bug, there is already an issue for it. Don't report the packets reliable/unreliable, it's already fixed. And the lower performance is not mesured |
| 21:54 |
celeron55 |
you can report all of those if you think they need to be re-evaluated |
| 21:54 |
celeron55 |
github will happily waste their HDD space for us |
| 21:55 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: please note i will not fix your problems since you will be more polite and less offending. |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
vanessae's problems? |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
wat |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
minetest users' problems |
| 21:55 |
celeron55 |
lol |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE |
wait, so I have to insult you to get my bugs fixed? ;) |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
nrzkt: I don't think that's the only instance of reliable/unreliable packet regressions |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
it's just one that I happened to spot as I was looking at an unrelated piece of code |
| 21:56 |
nrzkt |
scream on me in MP everytime and tell i'm a retard on IRC is not very elegant. |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
you need to be way more careful about the code you change. |
| 21:56 |
PilzAdam |
#2524 |
| 21:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2524 -- Issues with new network code |
| 21:56 |
nrzkt |
thanks PilzAdam |
| 21:57 |
kilbith |
"Players being spawned at (0,0,0)" is an old bug from years now |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
kilbith: hence the "(unconfirmed)" |
| 21:58 |
PilzAdam |
kilbith, comment that in the issue |
| 21:58 |
PilzAdam |
it might be helpful in the future |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
it's unclear if that bug went away and just came back, or what's the case there |
| 21:58 |
kilbith |
i had a server hosted by OldCoder and i had exactly this bug happened |
| 21:58 |
nrzkt |
yes, but don't say it comes from me. |
| 21:58 |
kilbith |
one year ago ^ |
| 21:58 |
nrzkt |
somebody can think i introduce this bug. |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
nrzkt: note that VanessaE happens to be one of our most dependable testers of heavy usage of minetest; it would be quite dumb to not take advantage of the information she can sometimes give |
| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
I just wasted a crapload of time to discuss bugs with somebody elses' code instead of working on my own code |
| 21:59 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, you'd be better of if you just ignore everyone who just blames you |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
[03-21 17:50] <VanessaE> players being spawned at 0,0,0 even when there's a static spawn point may be network related also <--- notice I said "may be network related" and not "is nrzkt's fault" or anything even close. |
| 21:59 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, as long as you take bug reports seriously and are eager to fix them |
| 21:59 |
est31 |
revert all commits until one year ago. obviously there is an error with them |
| 21:59 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, shame on you for working together with other people |
| 21:59 |
est31 |
and its not my, code, so I'll send a PR to revert, and not to fix. |
| 22:00 |
nrzkt |
PilzAdam, i do it, but at a moment my patience is submerged |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: you can use these discussions beneficially by giving motivation to everyone |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: which has a way greater end result than one person working for one hour |
| 22:00 |
nrzkt |
PilzAdam, please look at github logs if you think i don't fix anything, i also look at many PR and talk with maintainers to make the PR mergeable. |
| 22:01 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, I didn't say otherwise |
| 22:01 |
est31 |
but I'm happy you partially resolved it. |
| 22:01 |
est31 |
(the dispute) |
| 22:02 |
PilzAdam |
nrzkt, now have fun fixing the bugs; I'm out |
| 22:02 |
nrzkt |
i don't get time to develop at this hour (it's 11PM here), and i'm another project :p |
| 22:02 |
nrzkt |
i'm on* |
| 22:03 |
celeron55 |
yeah the thing is, it's not enough to fix "many bugs"; you need to fix as many of them as possible, as thoroughly as possible, before continuing on other things; it's the only way a large project can survive |
| 22:04 |
nrzkt |
celeron55: agree it's what i'm doing everytime, fix the bug, improve some performances, talk with community about needs, talk about PR and issues to find bugs :) |
| 22:04 |
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| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
the issue with creating a roadmap is that nobody here is guaranteed to have time to work on minetest |
| 22:11 |
hmmmm |
try adding *that* to the already high level of uncertainty in software development |
| 22:11 |
nrzkt |
we don't have a deadline, there are only ideas and some things requested by community. Every point can be reported if necessary |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
minetest also has a history of taking sudden detours that would render any roadmap somewhat less useful than intended, as well. :) |
| 22:12 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE, then we update the roadmap if it's no the same way :) |
| 22:23 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: sorry i misunderstand what you said on NFG, translators are poor sometimes :( |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: indeed so |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
also I got the letters out of order, which confused your translator and google. |
| 22:24 |
nrzkt |
then: working together but don't forget to remove your CAPS LOCK :p |
| 22:37 |
* VanessaE |
makes a point to insult nrzkt more often... it results in jokeworthy responses sometimes ;) |
| 22:42 |
nrzkt |
this doesn't work sorry :p i prefer calm persons with reproducable conditions :) |
| 22:42 |
est31 |
NFG? |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
s/NFG/FNG/ |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNG_syndrome |
| 22:44 |
kilbith |
anyways, thanks both of you, nothing at TV tonight |
| 22:44 |
* kilbith |
runs away |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 22:48 |
hmmmm |
I thought it meant No Fuckin Good |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
now now |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
let's not start up again |
| 22:49 |
nrzkt |
#troll spotted :p |
| 22:50 |
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