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Message |
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| 00:55 |
RealBadAngel |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrPaEUjtYvQ |
| 00:55 |
RealBadAngel |
happy JUMPING :) |
| 01:11 |
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hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, I know that, thanks |
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RealBadAngel |
Zeno`, happy kangooros |
| 03:00 |
* Zeno` |
rides around on his new kangaroo and salutes RBA. Likewise! :) |
| 03:01 |
* Zeno` |
gets hungry and eats his mount |
| 03:02 |
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| 03:03 |
paramat |
hmmmm #2033 is tested and ready for review/merge =) |
| 03:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2033 -- Mgv7: Remove mountain height limits, dont let mountains chop dungeons. All mapgens: generate dungeons throughout world and speed optimise by paramat |
| 03:25 |
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* Zeno` |
dislikes backwards C and C++ files |
| 03:37 |
hmmmm |
paramat, looks good but if you're adding an additional condition for dungeons to get generated, shouldn't that go into dungeongen::generate()? |
| 03:37 |
hmmmm |
zeno, ?? |
| 03:39 |
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| 03:40 |
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| 03:41 |
paramat |
that occured to me but it seemed simpler and faster to decide earlier on alongside 'if flags & MG_DUNGEONS'. those bools are already there doing decisions |
| 03:43 |
paramat |
just look at mapgen_v6.cpp, your own code has lots of decisions going on inside makechunk |
| 03:45 |
paramat |
.. that is, decisions concerning dungeons |
| 03:50 |
Zeno` |
I agree with paramat, although probably for different reasons; i.e. avoiding setting DungeonParams and calling dgen.generate() altogether if no dungeons would be generated anyway |
| 03:50 |
paramat |
yep |
| 03:51 |
paramat |
with speed optimisation it's better to make the decision earlier on |
| 03:53 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, you must have come to the same conclusion at some point if you wrote the orginal "if (flags & MG_DUNGEONS) {}" ;) |
| 04:06 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 04:06 |
hmmmm |
that option was more like an on/off switch |
| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
the only real options i have inside of makeChunks() is "if (flag & something) |
| 04:12 |
paramat |
(.. and 'if desert make temple and set all these params' hehe) |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
i tried to separate mapgen decisions from dungeongen decisions |
| 04:15 |
Zeno` |
How else could it be done? Add an additional parameter to DungeonGen::generate (or some other thing like nmin == nmax) so that it can return immediately? |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
you're right |
| 04:17 |
paramat |
my method allows mapgens to in future potentially act differently as to how high dungeons generate, it's more flexible |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
DungeonGen::generate() is the only one that has a check like that |
| 04:17 |
Zeno` |
well actually |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
CaveGen::makeCave() or whatever has no such checks |
| 04:18 |
hmmmm |
all the checks are done in the Mapgen::makeCaves() |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
I guess it would be smarter to add a function to mapgens "makeDungeons" |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
move the stone_surface_max_y comparison in there |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
take the 3d noise density query out of DungeonGen::generate() and put it there |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
that'd make it more consistent with caves |
| 04:19 |
Zeno` |
Maybe it stone_max_y (or whatever it's called) could be added as a param to DungeonParams(). Hmm. That way although the function gets called and could return immediately the loops inside DungeonGen::generate() might be able to be optimised for those cases where it does not return immediately. Maybe a combination |
| 04:19 |
hmmmm |
nah |
| 04:20 |
hmmmm |
don't add more dungeonparams |
| 04:20 |
Zeno` |
I wouldn't dare :) |
| 04:20 |
Zeno` |
Just speaking out aloud (so to speak... errr, type) |
| 04:21 |
hmmmm |
dungeonparams is meant to be some sort of lua configurable thing that doesn't have the correct wiring set up (yet anyway...) |
| 04:21 |
hmmmm |
I had some kind of really neat plans for dungeons but meh |
| 04:21 |
paramat |
? |
| 04:22 |
paramat |
i might be able to make dungeons params user-settable in future |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
I think I was supposed to generalize it into a random room generator where it'd randomly add chunks of rooms onto eachother |
| 04:22 |
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| 04:22 |
paramat |
unlimited dungeons? |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
unlimited detail! |
| 04:23 |
paramat |
nice |
| 04:23 |
Zeno` |
and a maze generator! |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
well minecraft already has this sort of thing with the strongholds and mines |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
last time I looked at the source it seemed like they defined each generator separately (so not quite that impressive) |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
i want to generalize |
| 04:25 |
hmmmm |
and the nether castle things |
| 04:25 |
hmmmm |
each of those are their own separate entities |
| 04:26 |
hmmmm |
i don't recall exactly, do minecraft desert temples have random room layouts? |
| 04:26 |
paramat |
sounds good, but current MT dungeons are so good and so much loved keep them separate and unchanged please |
| 04:27 |
paramat |
for example those cobble rings floating in the air are the most magical thing about MT |
| 04:27 |
paramat |
like discovering a stonehenge |
| 04:28 |
paramat |
MC temples are small and not much variation, if any |
| 04:29 |
paramat |
BTW i have an insane giant dungeon generator mod you might enjoy |
| 04:30 |
paramat |
i had an idea that the random floating cobble rings could be used as portals |
| 04:31 |
paramat |
sunce they are already parodying MC from their appearence |
| 04:31 |
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| 04:37 |
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| 04:38 |
paramat |
another pull incoming: 'get mapgen params' is tested in choosing mapgen-specific biome code in default/mapgen.lua. importantly any mod can now 'clear registered biomes' (ie MTgame's biomes) without having to do that inside 'on mapgen init' |
| 04:48 |
paramat |
back in hour or two O/ |
| 04:48 |
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| 04:52 |
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| 05:05 |
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| 05:38 |
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| 05:44 |
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| 05:44 |
hmmmm |
happy new year |
| 05:45 |
Zeno` |
you too, hmm |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
oh what developments will a new year of minetest bring~ |
| 05:45 |
Zeno` |
and everyone else ;) |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
hey man you had your new year almost a day ago |
| 05:45 |
Zeno` |
yeah I have an extended one to make sure I cover all timezones |
| 05:47 |
Zeno` |
Makes it tricky. I have to toast a new toast every 1 minute for ... errr... $this many hours |
| 05:48 |
Brains |
Heh, a man with a plan. Did you account for the Gregorian vs Julian calendar? |
| 05:49 |
Zeno` |
Yes. That's why I celebrate the New Year for 24-hours twice a year! |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
so guys |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
I have a plan |
| 05:54 |
* Brains |
heads for the door... </jk> |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
I want to have client-side lua in minetest by sometime before Q2 2015 |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
is there anybody who is willing to devote their development time to work toward this goal? |
| 05:55 |
hmmmm |
(alongside me of course) |
| 05:56 |
Zeno` |
what will it focus on? |
| 05:56 |
Zeno` |
(apart from being client-side) |
| 05:56 |
hmmmm |
planning is part of the goal |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
so this is going to result in a major version increase of course |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
mods will not be reverse compatible |
| 05:57 |
Zeno` |
I'll watch the planning and decide later then. I'd love to see client-side Lua for *at least* controlling/customizing the UI |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
i want to tear out a lot of stuff like the way the lua hud api works right now |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
yeah... |
| 05:58 |
hmmmm |
all of the GUI will be done through the lua api, first off. no more C++ formspecs |
| 05:58 |
hmmmm |
we already have a powerful basis for making all of this happen thanks to the mainmenu api |
| 05:59 |
hmmmm |
so the main idea is to have servers send clients lua to execute - client side lua will need to be sandboxed and impenetrable |
| 05:59 |
hmmmm |
additionally another requirement is that the lua must be transmitted in plaintext |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
precompiled lua will not be allowed at all |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
i'm not sure how we're going to detect obsfucated code |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
also the lua will be optionally saved permanently to the client |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
much like the way map is saved |
| 06:01 |
hmmmm |
so at the minimum we'll have: |
| 06:02 |
hmmmm |
1). full GUI replacement |
| 06:02 |
hmmmm |
2). replacement of the HUD api |
| 06:02 |
hmmmm |
3). a generic mod client/server communication channel |
| 06:02 |
hmmmm |
4). client-side prediction moved to lua |
| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
5). shader API |
| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
6). client-side graphics effects (post-FX? need to think more about this) |
| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
and key binding |
| 06:07 |
hmmmm |
oh here's an important one: 8). local mob AI |
| 06:07 |
Zeno` |
Well I haven't mentioned it yet because I was still deciding if it was something I'd like to do but my major plan (at this point) is most likely to increase the "separation" between client and server (I mean the sometimes not so obvious interactions they have). This would have crossover with probably all six of your list items. |
| 06:07 |
hmmmm |
i.e. provide a client scripting interface to manipulating CAOs locally then reporting the changes to the server |
| 06:08 |
Zeno` |
And, no, I don't mean splitting the code base; I mean making it... not sure of the correct term |
| 06:08 |
hmmmm |
i know what you mean, i'm not a big fan of how there's such little logical separation |
| 06:09 |
Zeno` |
I am guessing it's an historical artefact due to the original design |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
how can we defend against obsfucated lua |
| 06:11 |
Brains |
I don't think you can... Like you said, sandboxed to hell and back. |
| 06:11 |
Zeno` |
I will solve the halting problem first |
| 06:11 |
hmmmm |
erm |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
there's stuff out there |
| 06:12 |
Zeno` |
and then it will be easy |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
this won't solve like... scrambling variable names or whatever |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
let me bring up the pdf |
| 06:13 |
Zeno` |
Lua is Turing complete so I can't see how it can be solved, although I would gladly be proved incorrect |
| 06:13 |
Zeno` |
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying. /me waits for the paper/pdf |
| 06:14 |
hmmmm |
:/ i can't find it |
| 06:14 |
hmmmm |
but anyway the gist is there are ways to reconstruct the original operation of what effect the bytecode is supposed to have |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
like say your obsfucator placed some kind of |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
sub ecx, 45h |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
xor ecx, f9h |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
rol ecx, 12 |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
or whatever |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
it'll figure out through one of several methods that it was originally supposed to be an "add ecx, 5" |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
i'll still look for it |
| 06:16 |
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| 06:17 |
Brains |
So given a list of operations, produce the shortest set of operations that will produce the same results? It is late here so my mind is drawing a blank on the word I'm looking for... |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
I think it would fall under the umbrella of data-flow analysis |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
program synthesis |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
hmm ok |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
http://www.nosuchcon.org/talks/2014/D1_01_Rolf_Rolles_Program_Synthesis_in_reverse_Engineering.pdf |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
yay :D |
| 06:21 |
hmmmm |
this ^ is informative to get the general idea of it, but it's not the full story because it's just a slideshow |
| 06:21 |
hmmmm |
might be hard to follow at times |
| 06:22 |
Zeno` |
it's kind of the reverse of data-flow analysis and the resulting optimizations possible... kind of |
| 06:22 |
* Zeno` |
will read more later |
| 06:22 |
Zeno` |
actually, not the reverse... more of a combination of the ideas |
| 06:23 |
Zeno` |
interesting. Will bookmark |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
haha :( |
| 06:24 |
Zeno` |
I think maybe this should be your thesis for a PhD rather than a small walk in the park |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
the more interesting and smart a paper is, the more likely it is to get bookmarked |
| 06:25 |
kaeza |
happy new year to whoever it may concern :) </offtopic> |
| 06:25 |
hmmmm |
that's true... I suppose the best we could do is supply the end user with an off-the-shelf lua deobsfucator if we can find one |
| 06:25 |
Brains |
Nice, there is a video of the talk as well. |
| 06:25 |
hmmmm |
i'm really feeling nervous about executing potentially nonfree, potentially malicious lua on the client |
| 06:25 |
Zeno` |
I have very few bookmarks actually. If I can't read something straight away I'll bookmark and look at more closely when I can. Once I read it more thoroughly I decide whether or not it's worth making a local copy and either way delete the bookmake |
| 06:26 |
Zeno` |
Happy new year, kaeza |
| 06:26 |
hmmmm |
i don't like saying this but |
| 06:26 |
kaeza |
hmmmm, FWIW, Lua bytecode is NOT safe |
| 06:26 |
hmmmm |
what if we... add signing |
| 06:26 |
Zeno` |
I don't like signing on ethical grounds :( |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
yeah but ethics |
| 06:27 |
Zeno` |
yeah, I but know but but :) |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
what's more ethical, keeping the client safe/free/etc or not permitting things to run |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
the signing check can be manually turned on/off by a config setting |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
kaeza, ?? |
| 06:28 |
kaeza |
(i.e. the interpreter does not actually check the validity, so it may be possible to do buffer overruns or whatever) |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
I dunno. I believe the person should be free to do what they like without asking for permission (even if what they want to do is destructive) |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
yeah that's another issue |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
haha... want to run the lua interpreter in a sandbox? :) |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
If it was a config setting or some kind of warning that popped up the first time it was installed I'd be less worried about it |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
yeah but the freedom of the users or freedom of the server hosters |
| 06:29 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, well I did debate and resist SN's sandboxing as well (for the same reason) |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
there are lots of options here |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
but we want to make sure the client absolutely has a choice of whether or not to block some piece of lua code |
| 06:29 |
Brains |
If the client is reporting results of local lua back to the server, the server's population now has a vested interest in the local lua validity as well. |
| 06:30 |
Zeno` |
Brains, no more so than the code being open source and modifiable anyway |
| 06:30 |
Zeno` |
I guess that would involve an additional step though: getting the user to download some kind of compromised client |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
:/ |
| 06:31 |
Brains |
Zeno`: The server has a vested interest in making sure that the lua sent to the client was run without tampering and that the results reported fairly. (Yes, you can attack other portions of the process but we arent' talking about those yet.) |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
minetest is going to pop up on milw0rm |
| 06:31 |
Zeno` |
Oh yea, I agree with that, Brains |
| 06:31 |
Brains |
Terminals for everyone! |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
Well, the easiest way is to say "This mod is not from a trusted source", but then... who are trusted sources? |
| 06:32 |
Brains |
Keyrings? |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
:D |
| 06:32 |
Brains |
(If the answers were easy and satisfying, you wouldn't be asking the questions...) |
| 06:33 |
Zeno` |
Of course |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
we already run public serverlists |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
we could trivially add the concept of trust to servers |
| 06:34 |
hmmmm |
the centralized trust will be in the hands of a couple minetest developers |
| 06:34 |
hmmmm |
thinking like maybe it'd need 4 or 5 peoples' certificates to make modifications or whatever sort of like the root DNS servers |
| 06:34 |
hmmmm |
except much less important |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
just some stupid game :( |
| 06:35 |
Zeno` |
I'm not sure; this will take a lot of thinking about |
| 06:35 |
Brains |
A centralized trust for what? Blessing binaries? mods? We certainly wouldn't want to have servers blessed unless there was ongoing maintenance and monitoring of those servers by those devs and that sounds like a hassle... |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
yeah. let's get the trust part down before we do anything else |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
blessing mods, yes |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
blessing servers as well |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
the server would need to be blessed as well as the mod blessed in order for the client to trust that code from that server |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
To me the immediate reactions/question are: a) will this stifle mod development; b) will this lead to unintended favouritism; c) will this add undue hardships to people new to the mod scene?; d) It's hard enough to merge a commit, let alone certify a mod! :D |
| 06:37 |
hmmmm |
running arbitrary code on the client is no funny business |
| 06:37 |
hmmmm |
it's an incredible amount of power |
| 06:37 |
Zeno` |
Ok, I think we're talking about 2 different levels of code here... |
| 06:37 |
Brains |
And how would you certify a server... You can't really verify the code and ongoing running of a server with the kind of manpower available. |
| 06:37 |
Zeno` |
a) Code that the user chooses to install or write; and b) code that the server sends |
| 06:38 |
hmmmm |
brains, good question.. i'd first say anonymous, random audits could pull a server certification if it's found to attempt funny business |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
welp |
| 06:39 |
Brains |
hmmmm: That sounds pretty much useless 'cept against folks who are just inept though. |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
maybe this is too much security |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
lots of client-side scripting is done on things |
| 06:39 |
Zeno` |
I.e. when I go to a website I do NOT expect that website to install anything or ask my computer to run some arbitrary code that it wants to (type b). But I will install browser plugins (type a) |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
the difference is that they have a lot of users to expose problems very quickly |
| 06:39 |
Brains |
Local checks against known good keys are easy enough first steps. |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
Most browser plugins are to prevent type a |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
note that when I say arbitrary code I mean basically javascript |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
there are lots of javascript vulnerabilities though |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
err b |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
confused now |
| 06:41 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
this isn't like |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
raw code code |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
i wonder how many heap spattering-type vulns are in the lua interpeter |
| 06:41 |
Zeno` |
But, see, I was talking about client-side Lua in the "user side only, they install it or write it, type scripting" and not the server gives the client some script/Lua to run |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
that's also a good idea |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
instead of the server sending the code, the server just tells the client which mod it needs |
| 06:42 |
Zeno` |
So I think the distinction as to what "client-side Lua" actually means might need to be more clearly defined as part of the planning |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
and the client will install (from the official modstore) the client side part of the mod |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
server-side sent lua would certainly be the most convenient though |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
and flexible |
| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
I would be willing to compromise and go with your idea |
| 06:43 |
Brains |
I wonder what the setup with debian's apt-get stuff is... |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
should we hold a vote? |
| 06:44 |
Zeno` |
I'd much prefer the "this server needs x, y and recommends z. Look at them here: " type approach |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
same |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
alright we'll just go with that |
| 06:45 |
hmmmm |
now we need to figure out solid requirements |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
That way servers that don't have their required mods on the forum (for example) will probably just fail :D |
| 06:45 |
hmmmm |
hahaha |
| 06:45 |
hmmmm |
great stuff |
| 06:45 |
hmmmm |
if the client doesn't take explicit action, this will also prevent running non-free mods |
| 06:46 |
hmmmm |
i feel guilty because i run flashplayer and nvidia drivers :/ |
| 06:47 |
Zeno` |
So do I |
| 06:48 |
Zeno` |
But *shrug*, I chose to trust them |
| 06:48 |
* Brains |
doesn't but he is running Windows at this exact moment so... |
| 06:49 |
kahrl |
I feel guilty too, I use pngout |
| 06:55 |
kahrl |
on a more serious note: I haven't really kept up with the mmdb infrastructure, what is its organization (who can approve mods?) and how fast are new mod versions approved? |
| 06:56 |
kahrl |
because if being in the mmdb is a requirement for client-side lua, I think mmdb approval should be very a fast process, else it stifles development |
| 06:56 |
kahrl |
a very* |
| 06:57 |
Zeno` |
yes, I agree |
| 06:58 |
Zeno` |
which is what I meant by one of my points earlier |
| 06:59 |
* Zeno` |
will be back later. Happy new year to all |
| 06:59 |
kahrl |
also, there needs to be some way to have multiple versions of a mod installed at the same time |
| 06:59 |
kahrl |
at least for client side mods |
| 07:00 |
kahrl |
if server 1 is only compatible with client mod version <=N and server 2 only with version >=N+1 |
| 07:03 |
Brains |
Okay, I'm seeing floating glowing trees in my new minetest world so I think that is a signal to shut it down and get some sleep. Later... |
| 07:08 |
kaeza |
kahrl, all forum moderators can approve mods; iqualfragile is the only one maintaining the mmdb core though, AFAIK |
| 07:09 |
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| 07:18 |
paramat |
MTgame team: better temporary biome for mgv5/v7, located in default/mapgen.lua https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/392 .also, remove builtin_biome.lua #2036 |
| 07:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2036 -- Builtin: Remove builtin_biome.lua if my simple biome is added to MTgame (MTG pull 392) by paramat |
| 07:25 |
kaeza |
kahrl, also, approving mods for MMDB is as easy as clicking a button on a webpage, but the archive to download must be done so that uncompressing to mods/ without further intervention (except for enabling it) get a working mod. this means the folder inside the archive must be named correctly, etc |
| 07:26 |
kaeza |
many users upload archives downloaded from github, which get named foomod-master, which is inappropriate |
| 07:26 |
kaeza |
and we (the moderators) can't upload the archives ourselves :I |
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RealBadAngel |
1st January 2015, international hangover day ;) |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
who coded that?? |
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| 15:33 |
shadowzone |
Happy new years folk! |
| 15:33 |
Zeno` |
shadowzone, according to your own time you are 9:34 late |
| 15:34 |
shadowzone |
I know |
| 15:34 |
Zeno` |
drunk again I suppose |
| 15:34 |
shadowzone |
I hope not |
| 15:34 |
shadowzone |
I only got like 6 or 7 hours of sleep |
| 15:35 |
rubenwardy |
It's just an arbitrary point in time where we say a year has ended and a new one has begun |
| 15:35 |
Zeno` |
rubenwardy, you have not seen my detailed and comprehensive investigations I think |
| 15:36 |
rubenwardy |
huh? |
| 15:36 |
kilbith |
Jordach, weird solution of fortune: https://lut.im/fBy10emd/v7YkEcvQ |
| 15:37 |
Zeno` |
my investigations where I proved that a large panda created the world and new years day is not subjective or arbitrary at all. It took me 93 years to iron out the wrinkles, but it's irrefutable now |
| 15:38 |
kilbith |
oops, wrong channel |
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| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
what do you guys think about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2014 |
| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
I feel as if the text is a bit too verbose, but do others like it?? |
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| 18:58 |
hmmmm |
so I think I'm going to separate out biome noiseparams from mapgen params |
| 18:59 |
hmmmm |
it's going to be logically separate |
| 18:59 |
hmmmm |
thank goodness i hadn't made all mapgen params into a settings group yet |
| 19:00 |
hmmmm |
biome parameters are going to have to be like mapgen parameters; there will be "biome specific parameters" for each biome system |
| 19:00 |
hmmmm |
I guess |
| 19:32 |
jin_xi |
hmmmm: i'd like to generate some structures exactly once per biome. do you have an idea how to accomplish this? |
| 19:37 |
hmmmm |
well you can't use the schematic api |
| 19:38 |
hmmmm |
erm, you can't use the schematic decoration api |
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| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
if there are going to be multiple biome system in minetest, i might as well add minecraft's fractal biome system |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
the way they do it is interesting and not with perlin noise at all... it basically fills a bitmap pseudo-randomly zooming out with each "layer" in a linked list which works nice because you don't get biome 'bubbles' like with perlin noise |
| 21:54 |
hmmmm |
it also guarantees a relatively constant size per biome regardless of how many biomes there are registered |
| 21:54 |
jin_xi |
dwarf fortress has some nice terrain and uses a fractal process |
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| 22:49 |
hmmmm |
agh |
| 22:49 |
hmmmm |
my crazy lighting replacement would break any mod that relies on light |
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| 23:13 |
crazyR_ |
no way to have a legacy light for the old way |
| 23:13 |
crazyR_ |
*? |
