| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:24 |
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paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:38 |
paramat |
hmmmm, line 107 of mg_decoration.cpp suggests i can use noise params instead of a fixed fill ratio, how is this done and what format? here's my failed attempt https://gist.github.com/paramat/05d14c973db2dfc080cb |
| 00:48 |
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| 01:14 |
hmmmm |
hi paramat, it looks good to me but you need to keep in mind that the rainforest biome is its own distribution along with the noise |
| 01:14 |
hmmmm |
so where the decorations actually get placed is the intersection between the areas of that biome and those noise params |
| 01:14 |
paramat |
okay |
| 01:14 |
hmmmm |
you should change default:junglegrass to something that would stand out better such as default:bricks to verify if it indeed works |
| 01:15 |
hmmmm |
try removing the biomes parameter if you can't seem to find any placed decorations |
| 01:20 |
paramat |
thanks i'll experiment further, hopefully just my own silly mistake =) |
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| 06:56 |
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| 06:56 |
Zeno` |
has anyone else tried #1771? |
| 06:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1771 -- Increase step smoothing to fit 1:1 stairs (works well on slabs too) by Calinou |
| 06:57 |
Zeno` |
I compared with and without the patch and the new (patched value) seems much more natural to me |
| 06:57 |
Zeno` |
while still retaining an acceptable amount of "bobbing" |
| 07:02 |
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| 07:25 |
RealBadAngel |
+1 for 1771 |
| 07:25 |
Zeno` |
Ok, I'll merge now ;) |
| 07:25 |
Zeno` |
it looks heaps better IMO |
| 07:26 |
Zeno` |
unless you want to merge it |
| 07:26 |
Zeno` |
lol :) |
| 07:26 |
RealBadAngel |
nah, i do have a mess here with my own patches |
| 07:27 |
RealBadAngel |
i think i will strip down the extruded meshes patch just for plantlike |
| 07:27 |
Zeno` |
so do I... I deleted some of my still pending branches when cleaning up my repo :-o |
| 07:28 |
RealBadAngel |
i cant just delete my own, i do have some interesting stuff stored there |
| 07:28 |
Zeno` |
I didn't delete them locally (thankfully) just on github |
| 07:28 |
RealBadAngel |
there are water and lava shaders (waiting for better days) ;) |
| 07:29 |
RealBadAngel |
have you actually saw the lava shaders? |
| 07:29 |
Zeno` |
I saw a youtube of them (awesome) |
| 07:31 |
RealBadAngel |
i will merge them once we have clean mapblock mesh |
| 07:32 |
RealBadAngel |
but we have to fix all the drawtypes before that |
| 07:33 |
Zeno` |
you'll fix all those tonight, right? :D |
| 07:34 |
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| 07:35 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe i doubt it |
| 07:35 |
Zeno` |
:) |
| 07:35 |
RealBadAngel |
today i will just make the plantlike rdy |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
While you're here RBA: #1872 |
| 07:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1872 -- Fixes for Android after recent commits. by KodexKy |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
it already has sapier's go ahead, but a 3rd opinion cannot go astray |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
I've asked KodexKy to squash and will commit once he does so |
| 07:37 |
RealBadAngel |
im ok with it |
| 07:37 |
Zeno` |
The fixes are needed a) because of refactor_main; and b) the global thingy that SN added |
| 07:37 |
Zeno` |
cool |
| 07:37 |
RealBadAngel |
you dont have to wait for original commiter to squash them |
| 07:38 |
Zeno` |
yeah I was in a "being polite" mood hehehe |
| 07:38 |
RealBadAngel |
just make a note "please squash your commits in the future" and just do it |
| 07:38 |
Zeno` |
Plus it gave me an opportunity to explain why I thought those two should be squashed |
| 07:39 |
Zeno` |
If he doesn't squash I'll just do it, but it was a way of opening up communication and it's not super urgent to merge |
| 07:39 |
Zeno` |
Unless you use Android of course :) |
| 07:41 |
Zeno` |
Have you built for Android? I dunno if it's just because it was the first time I've done it (I did it today) but it was kind of tricky for me |
| 07:42 |
RealBadAngel |
i was testing some builds, but havent built for myself, were using sapier's builds |
| 07:43 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have 2 devices to run android builds, Samsung Galaxy tab 3 and x86 kitkat |
| 07:43 |
Zeno` |
It made me wonder how many people using Android actually use "simple single player" mode and whether or not a "light client" would be worth it |
| 07:44 |
Zeno` |
i.e. a client version without the server stuff |
| 07:44 |
RealBadAngel |
imho most mobile users wont need single player |
| 07:45 |
Zeno` |
yeah, so it might be worth it. I'll look at the feasibility tomorrow I think |
| 07:45 |
RealBadAngel |
mobile devices imho are too weak to run server and the client at the same time |
| 07:46 |
RealBadAngel |
and there are already some servers out there to let them connect |
| 07:46 |
Zeno` |
exactly |
| 07:46 |
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| 07:47 |
RealBadAngel |
making the client lighter and faster can only effect in improving gameplay and in the longer run raising number of servers |
| 07:48 |
RealBadAngel |
they wont see the reason in doing so if the client will be slow or unplayable |
| 07:49 |
RealBadAngel |
also one day i would like to return to the idea of connected servers |
| 07:50 |
Zeno` |
I'd like that as well, but there are some tricky parts |
| 07:50 |
RealBadAngel |
so players could use in-game teleporters, portals or something like that just to walk from one server to another |
| 07:50 |
RealBadAngel |
it shouldnt be very different like mc's loading nether and back |
| 07:51 |
RealBadAngel |
will just take some time |
| 07:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and restrictions can be defined by target server |
| 07:51 |
RealBadAngel |
like player can transfer inventory/ cant tranfer it |
| 07:53 |
RealBadAngel |
in the worst case player will travel with unknown nodes, at his own risk |
| 07:54 |
RealBadAngel |
server wont crash because of it, it can already handle unkowns |
| 07:54 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 07:54 |
Zeno` |
but are node IDs guarenteed to be the same server to server (I doubt they are) |
| 07:54 |
RealBadAngel |
that wont need the id's just names |
| 07:55 |
Zeno` |
yeah, that'd work then |
| 07:56 |
RealBadAngel |
but even, just for starters, version that wouldnt allow inv transfers would be nice |
| 07:57 |
RealBadAngel |
so we could have kinda nexus servers with many portals leading to differnt worlds |
| 07:57 |
Zeno` |
but in the long run, wouldn't it be awesome if you could join a world that is rich and coal, and then go to another world that is coal poor and then trade it (for example) |
| 07:57 |
RealBadAngel |
exactly |
| 07:57 |
Zeno` |
that'd add a whole new dimension of gameplay |
| 07:57 |
RealBadAngel |
this is WoM |
| 07:58 |
RealBadAngel |
;) |
| 07:58 |
RealBadAngel |
World of Minetest |
| 07:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and something voxels games does not have |
| 08:00 |
RealBadAngel |
also look at this from another point of view, you have 40 servers running with a few players on each one |
| 08:00 |
RealBadAngel |
now let them freely walk from one to another. you have game with many players online |
| 08:01 |
Zeno` |
yep |
| 08:01 |
Zeno` |
it's something I've thought a lot about as well |
| 08:01 |
Zeno` |
it'd require opt-in and cooperation between server operators but I think that that would happen |
| 08:02 |
Zeno` |
e.g. I'd have no problem if I could interact my server with lots of others |
| 08:02 |
RealBadAngel |
just skip back to main menu/join tab and reuse player data to automatically connect to other server (with name:port) given by previous server |
| 08:02 |
Zeno` |
could have industrial worlds, natural worlds, fantasy worlds each offering different resources etc |
| 08:03 |
RealBadAngel |
failback is to reconnect to old one |
| 08:03 |
Zeno` |
I'd even upgrade my VPS to enable it :D |
| 08:03 |
Zeno` |
although I doubt I'd have to |
| 08:03 |
RealBadAngel |
that doesnt need so much changes |
| 08:03 |
RealBadAngel |
all the code is here |
| 08:04 |
RealBadAngel |
just skip the menu and connect to something other |
| 08:04 |
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Kodexky joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:05 |
RealBadAngel |
only difference is that you have to origin (in case of fail) and destination server's data |
| 08:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and make client connect again |
| 08:05 |
Kodexky |
Hi |
| 08:06 |
RealBadAngel |
rest is just cosmetic (some info for a player just) |
| 08:06 |
Zeno` |
yep |
| 08:06 |
Zeno` |
hi Kodexky :) |
| 08:07 |
Zeno` |
I was just talking about merging your latest PR |
| 08:08 |
Zeno` |
glad to finally meet you as well |
| 08:08 |
Kodexky |
Yes, i was doing my last check of everything before going to sleep and saw it. |
| 08:08 |
Kodexky |
Its a pleasure btw. |
| 08:09 |
Zeno` |
Well, I compiled minetest for Android for the first time today |
| 08:09 |
Zeno` |
And I didn't enjoy it much at all lol |
| 08:09 |
Zeno` |
So I for one am glad you're around |
| 08:09 |
Kodexky |
hehe first time its just painful. It took me 2 days. |
| 08:10 |
Zeno` |
took me about 6 hours so that's probably the same |
| 08:10 |
Zeno` |
and about 7 hours yesterday to install the SDK and NDK :-o |
| 08:11 |
Kodexky |
Eh, i was paranoid enough to believe i was doing something terribly wrong. |
| 08:11 |
Zeno` |
So was I. I couldn't get the emulator to work on x86_64 either (although I worked it out eventually) |
| 08:12 |
Zeno` |
merged |
| 08:12 |
Zeno` |
thanks for squashing. As I said, I could have done it but I wanted to take the opportunity to explain why I thought that in this case squasing would be good |
| 08:13 |
Kodexky |
puff, i tried the emulator to skip downloading to my tab. tried once, wont do it again ever!!. Hope you get your tab soon. |
| 08:13 |
Zeno` |
I got it yesterday :) |
| 08:13 |
Kodexky |
i was about to ask. to squash or not to squash? |
| 08:14 |
Zeno` |
well, squashing is not always necessary. But I think in this case the 2 commits were so closely related and small that they warrented squashing |
| 08:14 |
Zeno` |
e.g. I merged something the other day where there were two commits, but they sort of related to different things (more than this current one) |
| 08:14 |
Kodexky |
ok, so its case by case. |
| 08:14 |
Zeno` |
mostly |
| 08:15 |
Zeno` |
and probably pretty subjective as well :) |
| 08:15 |
Zeno` |
so it's hard, but I think keep doing it the way you're doing |
| 08:15 |
Zeno` |
someone will ask if they think they need to be squash |
| 08:16 |
Zeno` |
let me find an example where I didn't squash |
| 08:16 |
Zeno` |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1850 |
| 08:17 |
Zeno` |
Those two commits are obviously not related, so squashing would have been bad |
| 08:17 |
RealBadAngel |
general rule is one commit per PR |
| 08:17 |
Kodexky |
Ok, i see. I'll try to avoid multiple commits when possible. |
| 08:18 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 08:18 |
Kodexky |
btw 3 errors in 4000 lines is way better than my brightest day. |
| 08:18 |
RealBadAngel |
so if you want commit that fixes a, and a second that makes b |
| 08:18 |
Zeno` |
I could argue successfully that your two commits were distinct as well (because they fix bugs caused by different changes) but separate PRs are best (or squashed ones if they can be related to each other enough) |
| 08:19 |
RealBadAngel |
so make two PRs for them |
| 08:19 |
Zeno` |
Kodexky, thanks :) |
| 08:19 |
RealBadAngel |
if all your commits are in area of a, squash them |
| 08:19 |
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| 08:21 |
Kodexky |
Ok. Im still getting used to git. Until now i've only coded for myself or as a lone dev. |
| 08:22 |
Kodexky |
Btw, about what RBA and you where talking... |
| 08:22 |
Kodexky |
Please, don't cut down mobile clients. |
| 08:22 |
RealBadAngel |
huh? |
| 08:23 |
Kodexky |
I mean... |
| 08:23 |
Kodexky |
Dont remove server capabilities. |
| 08:23 |
Zeno` |
Kodexky, it would be a compile time flag |
| 08:23 |
RealBadAngel |
while it can be separated, it will be easy to make two builds |
| 08:24 |
RealBadAngel |
one with server and one light with client just |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
e.g. something like -DSLIM_CLIENT |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
or something like that |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
removing it entirely would be silly :) |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
The official builds, I'd imagine, would be "full" |
| 08:25 |
Kodexky |
Ok, i get it now. Sorry im a little overworked today. |
| 08:25 |
Zeno` |
This is all at the "idle chit chat throwing ideas about stage" anyway :) |
| 08:25 |
Zeno` |
It's ok |
| 08:25 |
Zeno` |
RBA overworks me all the time so I am constantly tired |
| 08:25 |
* Zeno` |
hides |
| 08:26 |
Kodexky |
haha |
| 08:26 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 08:29 |
Kodexky |
On my personal client i have restored classic mainmenu, i like to test mod there when on the move, i even carry a copy of my home server when possible, i panicked after half reading about slimming. |
| 08:29 |
RealBadAngel |
bbl, work time |
| 08:29 |
Zeno` |
oh yeah, don't worry about the slimming. If it even happens it'll be optional heh |
| 08:30 |
Kodexky |
wonderful |
| 08:30 |
Zeno` |
Well... 6:30PM here... I'd better cook some dinner |
| 08:31 |
Zeno` |
nice to meet you Kodexky and thanks for the Android fixes |
| 08:32 |
Zeno` |
Kodexky, something to think about... |
| 08:32 |
Zeno` |
on PC, it's faster to run a local server and then connect the client to that local server (rather than the simple singleplayer mode). Why? I have no idea |
| 08:33 |
Zeno` |
Hypothetically it should be identical but it's not |
| 08:34 |
Kodexky |
Its faster indeed. Ended doing so myself. |
| 08:36 |
Kodexky |
I was not on my machine and using windows. Had to do it that way to cope with the frequent crashes. |
| 08:37 |
Kodexky |
well, anyway too tired to think straight. Nice to meet you and RBA as well. Bon appetit, im off to morpheus land. |
| 08:40 |
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| 08:42 |
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| 08:43 |
Zeno` |
cya :) |
| 09:40 |
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| 09:40 |
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| 09:40 |
rubenwardy |
Hello! Can this be merged? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1843 |
| 09:44 |
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| 09:45 |
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| 10:03 |
Zeno` |
rubenwardy, it can |
| 10:03 |
Zeno` |
if a dev other than myself agrees |
| 10:03 |
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| 10:04 |
Zeno` |
This is the second case of a PR where the argument against merging it is that it takes away control from server owners/game creators |
| 10:05 |
Zeno` |
I think it's a weak argument |
| 10:05 |
Zeno` |
I haven't met a server owner yet who gives a sh*t |
| 10:06 |
sol_invictus |
there are a lot of pull requests blocked by weak arguments |
| 10:07 |
Zeno` |
sol_invictus, I still need approval from a second core dev |
| 10:07 |
sol_invictus |
Zeno`: I do understand |
| 10:07 |
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| 10:08 |
sol_invictus |
just pointing out there is no debate here (: |
| 10:08 |
Zeno` |
:) |
| 10:09 |
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| 10:09 |
Zeno` |
Most of the people running servers, who I have spoken to, are also players |
| 10:09 |
Zeno` |
so this would be acceptable |
| 10:10 |
sol_invictus |
a vivid example of a weak argument: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1689#event-197321674 |
| 10:10 |
Zeno` |
I can of course put myself in the place of imaginary server operators |
| 10:10 |
Zeno` |
But why should I do that? |
| 10:11 |
sol_invictus |
I think all those arguments about cheating is complete bulls**t |
| 10:11 |
sol_invictus |
you just remove checklocalprivilege and you got everything you want |
| 10:11 |
Zeno` |
Well, I think the same arguments saying "this should be a server operators decision" are also bullshit |
| 10:11 |
sol_invictus |
no need to be an egghead c++ coder |
| 10:12 |
Zeno` |
It's bullshit because I have not seen a game (or a server) where the operator/game dev has made that decision |
| 10:13 |
sol_invictus |
aha |
| 10:14 |
Zeno` |
look at #1867 |
| 10:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine |
| 10:14 |
Zeno` |
every single player (and most of those players also have a server) want it |
| 10:14 |
Zeno` |
saying that "well there might be a server operator who wants to control that" is, IMO, dumb |
| 10:14 |
Zeno` |
saying it's not dumb... blocking it because of that is dumb |
| 10:15 |
Zeno` |
I mean PilzAdam does have a point, but is it meaningful? |
| 10:15 |
sol_invictus |
it's dumb because a server operator can't really control what's happening client-side |
| 10:16 |
Zeno` |
Take my server. I want people to be able to place a block where they stand. I'm not going to give them noclip to do that |
| 10:16 |
Zeno` |
And I really don't care if they place a block where they stand or not (and I doubt any server operators do) |
| 10:17 |
Amaz |
If you change the code, (semi-hacked client) you can do it anyway. |
| 10:18 |
sol_invictus |
that's m point, Amaz |
| 10:18 |
Zeno` |
of course you can |
| 10:18 |
Amaz |
So server operators don't really have that much control. |
| 10:18 |
Zeno` |
If I, as a server operator, wanted to force pink clouds as a game decisions... well that's *my* problem |
| 10:19 |
Zeno` |
not the engine's problem |
| 10:20 |
Zeno` |
I can see where some things that players want and what hosting people want can be in conflict... but these examples are NOT (IMO) examples of them |
| 10:20 |
Zeno` |
and I want to merge these requests because I agree with the majority rather than the minority |
| 10:24 |
Zeno` |
I will ignore arguments that mention "the game designer or a server operator" unless a game designer or server operator speaks up :) |
| 10:24 |
Zeno` |
If they don't then the safe assumption is that they don't care |
| 10:25 |
Zeno` |
If players speak up, I'm sure those running servers can as well |
| 10:26 |
Zeno` |
without me trying to imagine what they want or don't want |
| 10:29 |
Megaf |
[4431056.629056] Out of memory in UB 102: OOM killed process 31900 (minetestserver) score 0 vm:1187744kB, rss:505876kB, swap:518020kB |
| 10:29 |
Megaf |
Please fix your memory leaks! |
| 10:31 |
Megaf |
Maybe those billions of warnings are cause some kind of memory leak |
| 10:31 |
Megaf |
I wouldnt have memory leaks before that |
| 10:31 |
jin_xi |
...so turn off strict module or what its called |
| 10:48 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 11:08 |
Zeno` |
can it be turned off? |
| 11:10 |
jin_xi |
comment out line 20 in builtin/init.lua |
| 11:10 |
jin_xi |
? |
| 11:10 |
Zeno` |
that's not turning it off :P |
| 11:10 |
Zeno` |
well it is, but it's not a setting |
| 11:17 |
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| 11:21 |
jin_xi |
should only explicitly be turned on for server setup/mod developping |
| 11:21 |
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| 11:45 |
Zeno` |
make a pR :P |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
#1843 ... comments please before I merge? |
| 11:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1843 -- Add setting to customise stack max by rubenwardy |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
sfan5 ^^^ |
| 11:50 |
Zeno` |
celeron55 ^^^ |
| 11:52 |
Zeno` |
Merging #1744 as it's been agreed upon (although not as an ideal solution) |
| 11:52 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1744 -- Only set the camera update keymap when using a debug build by rubenwardy |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
merging #1874 (sapier + zeno) |
| 12:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1874 -- Fix some undeclared global variables by CraigyDavi |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
in 10 minutes :) |
| 12:04 |
Zeno` |
those fixes are required due to SN "strict" patch thingy |
| 12:42 |
Zeno` |
I think I fell asleep! |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
Wayward_Onezie! |
| 13:11 |
Zeno` |
oop, sorry. Wrong window |
| 13:33 |
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| 13:34 |
kahrl |
...why didn't I think of that earlier |
| 13:35 |
kahrl |
I found an embarrassingly simple fix for the "thin black line" artifacts on the wield item that doesn't enable anisotropic filtering |
| 13:35 |
Zeno` |
fix it then :) |
| 13:35 |
kahrl |
(so it fixes that as well as the blurriness problem) |
| 13:36 |
kahrl |
replace material.setFlag(video::EMF_ANISOTROPIC_FILTER, true); with material.setFlag(video::EMF_USE_MIP_MAPS, false); |
| 13:37 |
kahrl |
I'll merge it in half an hour so we can see what that one will break |
| 13:37 |
kahrl |
:P |
| 13:41 |
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| 13:42 |
kahrl |
I made it respect the anisotropic_filter setting as well, here is the full commit: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/e7e4d3f233bc2272fb73 |
| 13:43 |
kahrl |
brb |
| 13:56 |
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| 14:09 |
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| 14:10 |
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| 14:15 |
PilzAdam |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1867#issuecomment-64518337 we should make a fundamental decision whether we want to optimize the game for players that are _currently_ playing the game, or whether we want to optimize it for more long-term goals (like turning Minetest into a generic engine) |
| 14:16 |
PilzAdam |
this would make it easier for everyone to handle such pull requests |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
Hi PilzAdam |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
I am glad you're here ;) |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
Do you know why BlockMen added that "feature" in the first place? |
| 14:18 |
PilzAdam |
which "feature"? |
| 14:18 |
Zeno` |
And, yes, possibly there needs to be a fundamental decision made, but I'm only interested in the history right now |
| 14:19 |
Zeno` |
The "feature" that stops people placing a node where they are standing |
| 14:19 |
PilzAdam |
AFAIK it was added because it's more realistic? |
| 14:20 |
Zeno` |
In real life, if I am standing right here, I can pour a block of concrete on myself |
| 14:21 |
PilzAdam |
but you can't place a block of stone where your feet are |
| 14:21 |
Zeno` |
But my point is that the original decision was a fundamental decision as well |
| 14:21 |
Zeno` |
And from what I can find there was not a huge issue making this original decision |
| 14:22 |
Zeno` |
(I'm just trying to understand; I'm not singling you out... well, I am in a way, but not maliciously) |
| 14:23 |
PilzAdam |
I don't see how it was a fundamental decision |
| 14:23 |
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| 14:23 |
Zeno` |
So how is it a fundamental decision in making the behaviour optional? |
| 14:24 |
PilzAdam |
(it already is optional) |
| 14:24 |
PilzAdam |
this is not limited to only this issue |
| 14:25 |
Zeno` |
I know |
| 14:25 |
Zeno` |
how is it already optional? |
| 14:25 |
PilzAdam |
if the server grants you noclip, then you can turn it off |
| 14:25 |
Zeno` |
but noclip gives way more than this feature |
| 14:26 |
PilzAdam |
not if you dont have fly |
| 14:26 |
Amaz |
It allows you to see underground. |
| 14:27 |
Zeno` |
ok, let's step back a bit |
| 14:27 |
Zeno` |
why is this feature bad? |
| 14:27 |
PilzAdam |
Amaz, oh, right |
| 14:27 |
Zeno` |
until 6 months ago it was the default behaviour |
| 14:28 |
PilzAdam |
Zeno`, because it's counter-intuitive (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/85) |
| 14:28 |
Zeno` |
and I do not know ANY server operator or game creator who has a problem with this |
| 14:29 |
Zeno` |
well, flying is not exactly intuitive either |
| 14:29 |
kilbith |
place_where_you_stand also allow more easily the building of the high, ugly 1x1 towers on servers... |
| 14:29 |
Amaz |
If a games wants players not to use it, it can use setting_set or whatever. |
| 14:29 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, rubbish. It's still very easy to do that |
| 14:29 |
Amaz |
kilbith, it's disabled by default anyway. |
| 14:29 |
PilzAdam |
Amaz, Lua games can't change the client configuration |
| 14:30 |
kilbith |
actually, it's not that easy as before. |
| 14:30 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, it is |
| 14:30 |
Amaz |
Ah. I was thinking in singleplayer. |
| 14:30 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, join ANY server and make a 1x1 pillar currently |
| 14:31 |
Zeno` |
heck join mine and I'll give you unlimited cobble to make one. It's not hard |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, as I said in my comment I understand your position |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
And in many ways agree with it |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
But... |
| 14:32 |
pitriss |
Zeno`: I support to revert to previous state or make it player configurable..:) |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
The players want this |
| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
No server operators have commented on it, so I have to assume they don't care |
| 14:33 |
pitriss |
that was worst commit in last year.. |
| 14:33 |
pitriss |
if i want realistic building i can go outside and play with real bricks:) |
| 14:34 |
PilzAdam |
Zeno`, the question now is, do we follow what the current players want from us, or do we follow what would be better for long-term things (e.g. for future game creators, that want control over this) |
| 14:34 |
PilzAdam |
Zeno`, Megaf is a server operator |
| 14:34 |
celeron55 |
client-side options are quite cheap and can be removed or replaced with server-side ones without many issues |
| 14:34 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, we, for now, follow what the players want |
| 14:35 |
celeron55 |
i don't really see a reason why that couldn't be a client-side option for now |
| 14:35 |
Zeno` |
if a server person wants this added then they can argue their point |
| 14:35 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, are we still in a state where we add things "for now"? |
| 14:35 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, and MegaF wants this commit |
| 14:35 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: when iterating on software, you always add things "for now" and remove them later if needed |
| 14:36 |
Zeno` |
We should not make up imaginary scenarios |
| 14:36 |
celeron55 |
we just should keep track of what is there "for now" and what is meant to be persistent |
| 14:36 |
celeron55 |
it might be somewhat unclear |
| 14:40 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, I think the original commit that disabled this behaviour was not thought through as thoroughly as this commit that adds it back as an option |
| 14:40 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: also, i don't see this as being important to a game; why do you think it is? |
| 14:41 |
Zeno` |
And I think you have guessed now that if I get one core dev to support me merging it I will. I will also, of course, consider a future pull request that reverts that behaviour if there is a good reason to do so. |
| 14:43 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, it may be an unwanted option to hide from players or mobs |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, these are may may may mays. There is no evidence that server operators care about that at all |
| 14:44 |
PilzAdam |
Zeno`, server operators are not game developers |
| 14:44 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, point me to a game developer that cares about this :( |
| 14:44 |
PilzAdam |
<- |
| 14:45 |
celeron55 |
well in that case i don't know, try to solve it somehow |
| 14:45 |
PilzAdam |
its a rather minor detail, but I think it's "weird" to be able to walk inside nodes if you placed them inside yourself |
| 14:45 |
celeron55 |
clearly the current situation is too inconvenient though (according to what people report) |
| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
in that case I say we merge and THEN work it out |
| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
imo the behaviour should not have been changed in the first place |
| 14:46 |
Zeno` |
and it possibly can be worked out, but the PR is probably good for now |
| 14:46 |
Zeno` |
at least it's set off by default |
| 14:47 |
PilzAdam |
I never said I oppose to merging it (I think I'm too inactive currently to do that) |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
like, the thing here is that a game should be able to disallow it, but most games don't care and thus in those cases it should be the user's choice |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, will you agree to me merging it then? |
| 14:47 |
hydalgo |
ThatGraemeGuy: thank you for the answers! |
| 14:47 |
PilzAdam |
no, because I think it should be done better |
| 14:47 |
PilzAdam |
I guess I'm "neutral" then? |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
And then after that we can work on a better solution |
| 14:48 |
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| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
Look, the way I see it is that most servers don't care and the players want this (configurable) |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
This PR will revert to the previous behaviour for those who want it and are smart enough to do it |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
it seems a small concession to make for the interim |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
Then when a properly considered change is devises it can be another pR |
| 14:52 |
Zeno` |
devised* |
| 14:53 |
Zeno` |
At this moment in the evolution of the game I'd rather keep the players happy than game developers. I understand the importance of this issue but atm there is no serious alternative |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, I really would like your understanding before I merge this :( |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
it's not the end of the world |
| 14:56 |
PenguinDad |
How about using a server side setting to "block" the client side setting? |
| 14:56 |
PilzAdam |
I do understand your point |
| 14:56 |
Zeno` |
PenguinDad, that's possible but that has to be another PR |
| 14:57 |
Zeno` |
this current PR is merely reverting the behaviour to how it always was but requiring the user to choose the "always was" behaviour |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
and I really really doubt casual users are going to bother modifying their .conf |
| 14:59 |
shadowzone |
I don't mind modifying my .conf but it does get a bit difficult |
| 14:59 |
shadowzone |
especially considering I'm only using 1 monitor. |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
see, even shadowzone can't be fscked doing it |
| 15:00 |
shadowzone |
And I'm a pro or what? |
| 15:00 |
Zeno` |
err... yeah you're a pro! |
| 15:00 |
shadowzone |
Okay. |
| 15:00 |
shadowzone |
I guess |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:01 |
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| 15:01 |
Zeno` |
C'mon PilzAdam, be reasonable :( |
| 15:02 |
PilzAdam |
what do you want from me? |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
just say "ok merge it" and we'll work out a better solution later :p |
| 15:04 |
PilzAdam |
can't you find another dev to do that? |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
merge it |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
ok :) |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
thanks |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
PilzAdam, we will work on this though ok? |
| 15:05 |
PilzAdam |
I don't know how often I will be here |
| 15:05 |
PilzAdam |
so be prepared to do it alone |
| 15:05 |
Zeno` |
that's ok... it's on my TODO list |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:36 |
Ritchie |
hello, i don't like that commit from issue #85 too |
| 15:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/85 -- Placing a block on the ground where the player stands |
| 15:37 |
VanessaE |
zeno merged a fix for that with commit 9f927900 |
| 15:38 |
VanessaE |
update to HEAD and set, enable_build_where_you_stand = true in minetest.conf |
| 15:55 |
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| 15:57 |
PilzAdam |
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/191262376/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.minetest_201411261546-0~3107~ubuntu12.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz |
| 15:58 |
PilzAdam |
^ kahrl |
| 15:58 |
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| 16:09 |
PilzAdam |
my local build fails too, using Irrlicht 1.7.2 |
| 16:24 |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:00 |
RealBadAngel |
hi |
| 18:00 |
RealBadAngel |
whats up? |
| 18:03 |
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| 18:06 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: oh wtf |
| 18:06 |
kahrl |
why does everything have to be so hard? |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:07 |
kahrl |
is there a way to accomplish the same thing in irrlicht 1.7.2? |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
what's bad about using 1.8.1? |
| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
Lack of support in package systems. |
| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
Although that might have changed |
| 18:09 |
* Krock |
is not affected :) |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:13 |
Calinou |
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libirrlicht-dev |
| 18:13 |
Calinou |
https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libirrlicht-dev |
| 18:14 |
Megaf |
Hi all |
| 18:14 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: I have some information on the memory leak |
| 18:17 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: PilzAdam: kahrl: It seems like minetest server is always consuming more and more and more RAM, without ever releasing it. |
| 18:17 |
Megaf |
http://paste.debian.net/plain/133688 |
| 18:21 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: I fixed the build issue for now |
| 18:23 |
PilzAdam |
yeah, works now |
| 18:23 |
PilzAdam |
but I see minor graphical glitches :-/ |
| 18:24 |
kahrl |
I know |
| 18:24 |
kahrl |
I hope we can find a way to fix them |
| 18:24 |
kahrl |
if not, eventually the distros will move on to 1.8 ;) |
| 18:26 |
PilzAdam |
that would be 2017 for mine |
| 18:29 |
Megaf |
You dont really care about hardware with limited resources, do you? Why bother fixing something if computer have lots of ram and will not crash because of a stupid bug... |
| 18:30 |
Megaf |
Its easier to say that its crashing because the little amount of ram...# |
| 18:30 |
Megaf |
like sapier seing that it was crashing because it was arm |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
Megaf, sometimes its just true |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
folks like to turn everything on and then complain |
| 18:34 |
twoelk |
yeah, I want everything and I want it now |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
and we should provide i7 for each mt user, sure :P |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
any more wishes? |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
i9 pls |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
mt claus has i7s this yr only, so sorry pal ;) |
| 18:36 |
Krock |
eww too bad. Then I'll stay on my Athlon 4000+ :P |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
please do notice im developing all that high end effects on core 2 duo, 1,8ghz |
| 18:37 |
* twoelk |
takes note that every piece of trivial software and evry tiny game is not whispering anymore but screaming: go! go and buy a new computer |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
and i have good frame rate |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
otherwise i wont be even trying to make a pull with a eye candy |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
one thing i have noticed lately: i switched from HD 4670 to GTX 550 Ti |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
and guess what |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
no frame rate change, at all |
| 18:40 |
twoelk |
so the probleme lives somewhere else than better hardware? |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
we got lately fps ups, real ones |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
all thx to optimization of the code |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
and redoing things |
| 18:41 |
Calinou |
550 Ti is not that much better compared to 4670 |
| 18:41 |
Calinou |
also, game is CPU limited, heavily |
| 18:41 |
Calinou |
if I don't limit FPS, then my CPU is capped, not my GPU |
| 18:41 |
Calinou |
my GPU has lots of room when I have 200 FPS… |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
calinou at least 3 times faster |
| 18:41 |
Calinou |
oh |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
4670 was budget card 3 yrs ago |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
and i paid 150$ for it then |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
now i would have to pay the same to get used 550ti |
| 18:43 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: are the glitches still there if you enable anisotropic filtering? |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:44 |
PilzAdam |
kahrl, I have aniso filtering enabled... |
| 18:45 |
kahrl |
hmm, strange |
| 18:45 |
kahrl |
what exactly do the glitches look like? |
| 18:46 |
PilzAdam |
thin lines |
| 18:46 |
kahrl |
that's the kind of thing that anisotropic filtering fixes (if it doesn't cause other problem), but I know what the problem is |
| 18:46 |
kahrl |
other problems* |
| 18:47 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: do you think anisotropic filtering can be enabled on the wieldmesh regardless of resolution? (unlike bi/trilinear filtering) |
| 18:47 |
PilzAdam |
do I need to configure anything else except the checkbox in the menu? |
| 18:47 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: no |
| 18:47 |
kahrl |
but it isn't applied because of wieldmesh.cpp:283 |
| 18:49 |
puhfa |
hi yall. we have a mod (no idea which one) that causes get_perlin_map to crash the server (bad_alloc), and i think the mod is calling register_on_generated with the parameters in a wrong order (max, min instead of min, max). so the question is, is the unit of get_perlin_maps size parameter nodes or blocks? |
| 18:49 |
puhfa |
https://github.com/ethic-rush/snow/blob/master/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L94 <- i think this results in <= 0 in our case |
| 18:50 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: in other words, do you agree with https://gist.github.com/kahrl/52e88e9a78863be2ea1c? |
| 18:50 |
puhfa |
(sry i thought you were done) |
| 18:50 |
kahrl |
puhfa: no problem |
| 18:51 |
kahrl |
puhfa: is that related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1858? |
| 18:52 |
puhfa |
probably. i tracked the c++ source down and the 3-param constructor of Noise was the first one where memory was allocated |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, yes |
| 18:53 |
puhfa |
we are trying to fix it by ensuring max > min in register_on_generated, but havent tested it yet |
| 18:53 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: ok, I'll merge it |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, when switched to gtx550ti i have no "holes in meshes" problem at all |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
even for 16x in cache |
| 18:55 |
hmmmm |
puhfa, the units are in nodes. the range is inclusive |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
<+RealBadAngel> now i would have to pay the same to get used 550ti |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
what?!?! |
| 18:56 |
puhfa |
thanks |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
an used 570 is ~ 70 € |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
where do you buy your cards? |
| 18:56 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: pushed that fix, does it work for you? |
| 18:56 |
hmmmm |
mixing up your minp and maxp would result in a negative number, which would be an extremely large unsigned number. so yes, that would cause the issue you're talking about |
| 18:56 |
PilzAdam |
kahrl, yes :-) |
| 18:57 |
kahrl |
awesome :) |
| 18:57 |
puhfa |
would love to find the mod that calls it with such parameters. is there any easy way to find out which one it is? |
| 18:57 |
hmmmm |
hmmm... I think I know how to 'fix' the Noise ctor std::bad_allocs... simply throw an exception saying "Your noise parameters are either incorrect or too high for this particular machine to handle!" |
| 18:57 |
hmmmm |
puhfa, I think a lua stack backtrace would do the trick |
| 18:58 |
puhfa |
nope, https://gist.github.com/crazyR14/8c5bd478997b0fb7df04 |
| 18:58 |
hmmmm |
but the thing is the exception would need to be handled as a LuaError |
| 18:58 |
puhfa |
oh... |
| 18:58 |
puhfa |
it actually does |
| 18:58 |
puhfa |
says here, snow |
| 18:59 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 19:00 |
kahrl |
#1875 seems obvious enough, should I merge it? |
| 19:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1875 -- Dont corrupt stepheight when setting other properties by CiaranG |
| 19:01 |
hmmmm |
kahrl, LGTM |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:03 |
kahrl |
done |
| 19:08 |
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| 20:48 |
Sokomine |
thanks for merging #1867 i'm sure it'll make a lot of players happy. those who care more about realism than easy steering still can leave the setting off. and if there's really a game one day that wants to enforce that players can't build where they stand, adding a server-controlled priv for that ought to be no problem |
| 20:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine |
| 20:48 |
* Amaz |
is very happy! |
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| 23:46 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: It doesn't have to be a LuaError, that exception class doesn't do anything special anymore. Anything derived from BaseException should send it's what() on as a Lua error if it's been called from Lua. |
| 23:48 |
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