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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-10-19

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Time Nick Message
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00:21 paramat hmmmm, i assume you want mgv5's noises changed to use the 2D and 3D noises that mgv7 uses? currently it is using internal noise buffers and hardcoded noise parameters, and the 3D noise looks 'eased' although i'm not sure about this
00:24 hmmmm yeah it is eased
00:24 hmmmm i was planning on adding 3d eased noise for quite a while
00:25 hmmmm it involves a lot, it's a good idea to make easing and absolute mapgen parameters
00:36 paramat okay i'll now work on the mgv5 noises
00:39 paramat hmmmm, when lots of biomes are registered in mgv7, they become very small, i recommend at least doubling the spread of the heat/humidity parameters, or perhaps even scaling it by the square root of biome number. i actually prefer larger biomes (500n-1kn) but players are used to 125-250n
00:40 hmmmm hrmm
00:40 hmmmm i'll have to check that out
00:40 hmmmm let's talk more about it sometime later
00:41 hmmmm to counteract the effects of having more biomes, shouldn't you be able to increase their size by increasing the spread factor of biome heat and humidity?
00:45 paramat yes that's the manual fix i recommend to people, chat later ...
00:46 hmmmm oh you wrote that derp
00:46 hmmmm not sure what you meant by scaling it by the square root of the biome number
00:46 hmmmm when you say biome number, do you mean the internal biome ID?
00:47 hmmmm the ID is supposed to be an opaque identifier for a specific biome.. if you want to start adding in contribution factors then a separate 'weight' field should be added
00:51 paramat sorry i meant scaling by square root of 'number of biomes'
00:52 paramat that will keep biome size roughly constant with any number of biomes
00:56 kahrl ugh, I fucking hate edge artifacts, they're the worst http://i.imgur.com/vtDgAjg.png
00:57 VanessaE kahrl: they're horribly bad with HDX
00:57 kahrl I tried wiggling the vertex and texture coordinates by plus or minus epsilon in any combination I could think of
00:57 kahrl it always remained horrible, any ideas?
00:57 VanessaE well they shift around depending on the angle of the wield
00:57 VanessaE e.g. by walking
00:57 VanessaE or at least they did last time I looked.
00:57 kahrl yeah
00:58 VanessaE all that tells me is it's a precision error at rendering time
00:58 VanessaE but otherwise, "I got nuthin', man."
00:59 kahrl this is using a different wield mesh than usual though: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/4f2958f9c45e339ca0dc
00:59 kahrl it actually seems that this code makes the HD situation better but the 16px situation worse
01:02 kahrl setting the resolution to 64 makes most of the artifacts go away, I guess I'll do that
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01:16 OldCoder I am testing a new world merge script. As 30+GB are involved this script may prove to be easier than WorldEdit.
01:17 OldCoder I also have a theory related to RE-SEND RELIABLE and may eventually submit my own patch to upstream.
01:17 hmmmm paramat, ahh sounds like a much better idea
01:18 hmmmm i hope you realize that biomes need a lot of work done on them, right?  heh heh
01:18 hmmmm that was originally supposed to be my job
01:18 OldCoder One question. The order of blocks in an SQLite3 dump of a map should not matter, correct?
01:18 OldCoder I.e. randomize the order, the resulting map should be the same, I think.
01:18 OldCoder Is this true?
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01:48 OldCoder Zeno`, I think I found the omission in your patch
01:49 OldCoder Testing another day
01:49 OldCoder I've also got a script that can merge 30+GB of world data
01:50 Zeno` Well, I did write it very quickly without testing ;) What was the omission?
01:50 OldCoder One moment
01:50 OldCoder if (peer->hasForceTimeout()) continue;
01:51 OldCoder How about adding that at the start of the broken loop?
01:51 OldCoder hasForceTimeout() simply returns the flag that you added
01:51 Zeno` I thought I had that
01:51 Zeno` so adding that fixes things?
01:51 OldCoder No, I added hasForceTimeout myself
01:51 OldCoder And I won't know for a few days
01:51 Zeno` ok cool :)
01:52 OldCoder Note: hasForceTimeout not forceTimeout
01:52 OldCoder Does theory make sense?
01:52 OldCoder I think
01:52 OldCoder the loop is repeating
01:52 OldCoder before peers have a chance to be dropped
01:52 Zeno` yes I just noticed that. Yes it make sense, so much so that I thought I added it to the patch already heh
01:52 OldCoder Ah!
01:52 OldCoder My first patch!
01:52 OldCoder We will see
01:52 Zeno` :)
01:53 OldCoder In the interim I am merging four maps, each a partial copy of Redcrab
01:53 OldCoder 30+GB of data
01:54 Zeno` I'm glad you're doing it :)
01:54 OldCoder We shall see
01:54 OldCoder It is rather dramatic surgery
01:57 Zeno` Speaking of dramatic surgery, my cleanup of the_game() should be finished today (fingers crossed)
01:59 VanessaE I should hope you won't be coding THAT with crossed fingers!
02:00 Zeno` well I can connect and play now
02:00 Zeno` the wield hand gets stuck waving though lol
02:02 Zeno` and that is now fixed, so I just need to add profiler graph back and debug
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07:42 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1746
07:42 RealBadAngel kahrl, hmmmm are you ok with it?
07:43 hmmmm well i don't really know much about collision boxes
07:43 hmmmm i see you made a typo in the commit message though
07:44 RealBadAngel they are nodeboxes
07:44 RealBadAngel before they were copied from nodeboxes itself or set to full cube size in case there were no nodeboxes defined
07:44 hmmmm https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/7af9205bbd4110ee665a1b2f0d70f37f03926488#diff-fc3a9401529179dd3b1e55306363c6a4R360  this could be cleaner by making the second parameter a ternary expression
07:45 hmmmm hrmmm
07:45 hmmmm the selection box is different frmo the collision box
07:45 RealBadAngel selection box has nothing to do with collisions
07:45 hmmmm that kind of strikes me as being odd.
07:46 RealBadAngel you can point a flower but it doesnt have collision boxes at all
07:49 hmmmm heh that's true
07:49 hmmmm but that's a special case, is it not?
07:50 hmmmm wouldn't it be better if you could specify a flag to turn off collision with a node, even though it can be selected?
07:50 hmmmm I mean, I'm just trying to come up with other scenarios where the selection box would not be the same as the collision box
07:51 RealBadAngel walkable
07:51 RealBadAngel ^^ thats the flag
07:52 hmmmm then am i missing something
07:52 hmmmm is the node box the same as the selection box?
07:52 RealBadAngel can be
07:52 hmmmm what is the node box
07:53 RealBadAngel if you do not define selection box, it will be copied from nodebox
07:53 RealBadAngel same with collision
07:53 RealBadAngel lemme point you the code
07:53 hmmmm so what's the point of having a custom collision box exactly?
07:55 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapnode.cpp#L163
07:56 RealBadAngel meshes need that, theyre not boxes
07:56 RealBadAngel so collision box cannot be copied from def because there are no nodeboxes
07:56 RealBadAngel and they will always get full cube
07:57 RealBadAngel also, if you have complex nodebox, lets say made of 20 boxes, collision box is in fact a list of 20 boxes
07:57 Zeno` Hi, is anyone able to review: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1729 ?   I'm trying to check some other things and it not being merged is confusing things
07:57 RealBadAngel while one would do in most cases
07:57 Zeno` After RBA's issue of course
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07:58 hmmmm so it's just a naming convention
07:58 RealBadAngel having many complex nodebox slows down collision code
07:59 hmmmm i'm sorry it's just that i'd like to avoid having too many fields or too many copies of the same data
07:59 RealBadAngel same?
07:59 hmmmm well, yeah.
07:59 RealBadAngel we want different data
07:59 RealBadAngel so nodeboxes can be different from collision boxes
07:59 RealBadAngel thats the point
08:00 RealBadAngel nodeboxes can be list of 20 boxes, while collision could be just one box
08:00 hmmmm okay, that makes sense
08:00 RealBadAngel ofc if modder will define it
08:00 RealBadAngel if not, collision box will be copied over from nodeboxes as before
08:00 hmmmm yeah I can see the use for this
08:01 hmmmm approved
08:01 RealBadAngel well, not really copied, just used
08:02 RealBadAngel thats the code you linked, if selection box is empty then nodebox is get
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08:26 Zeno` RBA, care to take a look?
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08:45 kilbith RBA : are you aware of this lighting issue ? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/zHrao8syuQ7V.png
09:07 Zeno` not sure I like the look of that
09:09 OldCoder Sokomine, kaeza, VanessaE, the Redcrab merge is done. Please see if things you built before are present.
09:10 OldCoder celeron55, I may have a patch at last for the connection issue. Need a few more days to test.
09:10 OldCoder Others, I have a script in progress that specified pieces of worlds more easily than WorldEdit.
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10:08 Zeno` sfan5, can you review https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1729 again please?
10:08 Zeno` I'd like the valgrind errors fixed so I can focus on, well, different ones
10:14 Zeno` can anyone review it?
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12:01 sfan5 Zeno`: #1729 looks good
12:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1729 -- Various unitialised variable fixes by Zeno-
12:02 Zeno` thanks
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12:07 sfan5 someone please look at #1725 and #1609
12:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1725 -- Update the cURL the buildbot uses to 7.38.0 by sfan5
12:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1609 -- Search for subgames using $MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH. by davexunit
12:10 sfan5 ^ kahrl, nore, PilzAdam, RealBadAngel
12:11 Zeno` FWIW I've looked at 1609 and think it's ok now
12:12 kahrl Zeno`: about 1729, wouldn't it be easier to always initialize m_highlight_node_color than introduce another bool variable?
12:12 kahrl s/node/mesh
12:13 Zeno` kahrl, you'd think so, and I tried that first but I couldn't work it out. I asked RBA to look at that part of the code as well
12:13 Zeno` i.e. I tried initialsing to 0
12:13 Zeno` if you can make it better then I'd really appreciate it
12:14 Zeno` I don't like the extra bool either :(
12:15 sfan5 somebody plz look at #1725
12:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1725 -- Update the cURL the buildbot uses to 7.38.0 by sfan5
12:15 sfan5 it's only 7 changed lines
12:16 kahrl Zeno`: my valgrind doesn't complain about anything related to m_highlight_mesh_color
12:17 Zeno` have you got enable_node_highlighting = true?
12:18 kahrl yeah
12:18 kahrl should I disable the hud?
12:18 Zeno` false then?
12:18 Zeno` I can't remember... I know I wouldn't have added it unless valgrind was complaining
12:18 Zeno` hmm
12:19 kahrl let me try
12:20 kahrl still nothing with enable_node_highlighting = false
12:20 Zeno` I'll try as well then
12:22 Zeno` oh, from memory it's not *directly* related to that
12:22 Zeno` but... let me find it
12:27 Zeno` i need a faster computer heh
12:29 Zeno` it's related to final color blend
12:29 Zeno` and night
12:30 Zeno` rg += emphase_yellow_when_artificial[night/16];        <--- that line
12:30 Zeno` so for some reason that I cannot work out night is not initialised properly
12:31 kahrl but isn't that the reason for the "static const ..." rather than having anything to do with m_highlight_mesh_color?
12:31 Zeno` nah I added static const just as a matter of style
12:32 kahrl oh, ok
12:32 Zeno` this is what confused me so much at first (I have to admit it took me about an hour to track this thing down)
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12:35 Zeno` I'd like to work out why night is using an unitialised object but I couldn't and .. well, I dunno.. I added the bool
12:36 kahrl how is m_highlight_mesh_color even related to night?
12:36 Zeno` well it shouldn't be, but my method was to backtrack the code and that's where I ended up :/
12:37 kahrl heh
12:37 Zeno` which is probably why I got very confused
12:37 kahrl also shouldn't all members of MeshMakeData be initialized according to the C++ standard
12:37 Zeno` the other fixes were easy... that one had me stumped (I admit)
12:38 kahrl it's a non-POD type (because of the VoxelManipulator) so any missing initializers in the constructor should be added by the compiler
12:38 kahrl 12.6.2.4
12:38 Zeno` maybe my gcc is broken then?
12:38 Zeno` $ g++ --version
12:38 Zeno` g++ (GCC) 4.8.3 20140911 (Red Hat 4.8.3-7)
12:39 kahrl probably :P
12:39 Zeno` grrrr
12:39 Zeno` I doubt it though
12:39 kahrl but I got those valgrind errors at rg += emphase_yellow_when_artificial[night/16]; too
12:40 Zeno` yeah, and add that bool thingy and it will go away
12:40 kahrl g++ (Gentoo 4.7.3-r1 p1.4, pie-0.5.5) 4.7.3
12:40 Zeno` if you can init it "properly" please fix :)
12:40 Zeno` 'cause I wanna see the answer as well lol
12:40 kahrl it's weird because it doesn't happen every time
12:41 Zeno` yeah I think it's when it's pointing at a node
12:41 Zeno` not really sure... hard to kind of experiment with valgrind running (too slow)
12:43 kahrl yeah
12:45 kahrl ah, it stopped happening when I set enable_node_highlighting = false
12:46 Zeno` yeah that might be the case. I can't remember which setting (true/false) I used to trigger it
12:49 Zeno` well, I have to go to bed (sort of, but not really.... actually I will just read my book) but I hope this can be sorted out
12:51 kahrl ah, I see the finalColorBlend that depends on m_highlight_mesh_color now
12:51 kahrl derp ;)
12:52 kahrl Zeno`: good night
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12:53 Zeno` O/
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13:02 kahrl Zeno`: this seems to fix all the valgrind warnings in finalColorBlend and mapblock_mesh_generate_special: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/dfb0cfae62a8a68d6e03
13:03 kahrl with both enable_node_highlighting = true and false
13:04 Zeno` hmm, would you mind pulling my change and changing it to that? Otherwise I'll do it tomorrow
13:05 kahrl yeah, I would
13:05 kahrl not mind doing that
13:05 Zeno` ok thank you
13:05 kahrl sfan5: ok with that?
13:05 Zeno` I'm glad it's sorted out. nice find!
13:06 sfan5 kahrl: yep
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13:39 kahrl apparently I misread 12.6.2.4 in the C++ standard, it just says member "of class type" are guaranteed to be initialized in non-POD classes
13:39 kahrl members*
13:41 Zeno` ahh and it's a struct?
13:41 Zeno` thank you, btw
13:41 kahrl well MeshMakeData is non-POD because of the VoxelManipulator which has virtual methods
13:42 Zeno` doh!
13:42 Zeno` yes, I see now
13:43 Zeno` oh crap, I closed my tv show after viewing the merge :(
13:44 kahrl the merge is more important anyway :P
13:45 kahrl valgrinding also revealed this little gem: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/96128ae53a81c53d662d
13:45 kahrl in this case minetest crashed right after clicking the Play button
13:46 kahrl could this be related to the OnPostRender crashes? (#1512)
13:46 Zeno` It very well might be
13:52 Zeno` there is also another strange thing that I have come across but I don't know if i's me doing something wrong or... or something else. It's related to this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L134
13:53 Zeno` If you try my refactor_the_game branch, open pause menu and click the close button (of the Window Manager) you will see
13:53 Zeno` I have no idea what m_ext_ptr is for; I was planning on looking at it tomorrow
13:54 Zeno` anyway, I am asleep!
13:54 Zeno` can't work out why I am still typing
13:55 sfan5 kahrl: can look at #1725?
13:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1725 -- Update the cURL the buildbot uses to 7.38.0 by sfan5
13:56 kahrl sfan5: I did but I have no clue about the buildbot at all
13:56 sfan5 well I'd like to merge it
13:56 kahrl I gathered :P
13:57 Zeno` wget http://sfan5.pf-control.de/libcurl-$curl_version-win32.zip   is required?
13:58 kahrl who uses the buildbot?
13:58 sfan5 me
13:58 sfan5 Zeno`: how else are you going to download a file?
13:58 kahrl anyone else?
13:58 Zeno` :)
13:58 sfan5 possibly somebody else
13:58 Zeno` Just checking
13:58 sfan5 someone reported some issues with buildbot some time ago
13:58 Zeno` The changes look consistent so if I had a vote I'd say yes
13:59 sfan5 so at least 1 other person uses it
13:59 kahrl ah it was kaeza
13:59 sfan5 2 people then
14:00 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1389
14:00 sfan5 so. can I merge that pull?
14:00 kahrl if he's fine with those changes, merge them
14:00 sfan5 who?
14:00 sfan5 kaeza?
14:00 kahrl kaeza
14:00 sfan5 last time I check kaeza wasn't a core dev
14:01 kahrl sure
14:01 sfan5 and kaeza wanted me to fix the cURL link, this is what I did (by upgrading to a new cURL version)
14:01 sfan5 kk
14:01 sfan5 merge incoming
14:01 kahrl ?
14:01 sfan5 ?
14:01 kahrl I just wanted someone to test the changes
14:01 sfan5 I obviously tested them
14:01 kahrl doesn't matter if it's a core dev or not
14:02 kahrl someone with a possibly different environment than who wrote the changes
14:02 sfan5 *sigh*
14:03 sfan5 Zeno`: install mingw (w32 and w64), change toolchain_muingw{,64}.cmake accordingly and run ./buildwin{32,64}.sh
14:04 sfan5 mingw*
14:04 Zeno` already installed... one sec
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14:07 Zeno` well it built
14:08 sfan5 that fast?
14:08 Zeno` yes
14:08 sfan5 kahrl: can I merge it now?
14:08 kahrl yes
14:08 Zeno` full build takes about 10seconds
14:08 sfan5 wow
14:08 Zeno` and I think it took about 20 seconds to download something or other
14:08 sfan5 how many cores?
14:08 Zeno` 8
14:08 sfan5 o
14:09 sfan5 more like, which CPU?
14:09 Zeno` well, 4
14:09 sfan5 it only uses -j2
14:09 Zeno` I changed that :p
14:09 Zeno` I can't abide waiting
14:09 Zeno` I can do it again with -j2 if you like
14:09 Zeno` -j8 is much nicer
14:09 sfan5 no, it's fine
14:09 sfan5 pushed
14:10 sfan5 now, what about #1609?
14:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1609 -- Search for subgames using $MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH. by davexunit
14:10 Zeno` ok, and it runs in Wine so I guess all is ok
14:11 Zeno` I might start using that :)
14:11 Zeno` didn't know it existed
14:11 sfan5 the 0.4.10 mingw builds are done using that
14:12 sfan5 hm
14:12 Zeno` oh ok... I've been doing it the hard way then :/
14:12 sfan5 maybe I should update the cURL in my local buildbot copy too...
14:12 kahrl any potential security issues from #1609?
14:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1609 -- Search for subgames using $MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH. by davexunit
14:12 kahrl I mean, things like LD_PRELOAD have a horrible security history
14:13 sfan5 I can't think of any issue with that
14:20 Sokomine please don't forget about #1732  i'd really like to see that added
14:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1732 -- Add (optional) client-side saving of server map to disk by sfan5
14:20 Zeno` I think I am blind... where is LD_PRELOAD ?
14:21 Zeno` oh, nvm... I'm too tired
14:26 kahrl I guess as long as minetest isn't setuid root the environment variable isn't a problem
14:26 kahrl (and if you do that, ...)
14:27 kahrl ShadowNinja: do you see any potential security problems with #1609?
14:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1609 -- Search for subgames using $MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH. by davexunit
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14:59 rubenwardy #1744
14:59 rubenwardy Only set the camera update keymap when using a debug build - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1744
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15:42 rubenwardy Add lua errors to error dialog - https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/commit/5a57fde119035108886fb276eaf5984a95df1b01
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16:08 rubenwardy Any suggestions? Add lua errors to error dialog (WIP) - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1748
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17:03 RiZom-91 hi everyone!
17:05 gravgun hi
17:05 RiZom-91 I'd like to improve the line_of_sight function by adding glass, fence, etc nodes
17:06 Calinou maybe use the sunlight_propagates setting for that
17:06 Calinou if true, then it's ignored in line_of_sight
17:07 RiZom-91 What is the best node property to do that?  sunlight_propagates ?
17:07 RiZom-91 yes that what i was thinking about
17:08 RiZom-91 but for example I noticed that fences let the sunlight goes through even if there are not registered with this param
17:09 RiZom-91 (in minetest_game/mods/default/nodes.lua
17:09 RiZom-91 )*
17:10 RiZom-91 how is it possible ?
17:11 RiZom-91 is this >> paramtype = "light" responsible ?
17:11 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1746
17:12 RealBadAngel kahrl, Calinou, sfan5 ?
17:12 sfan5 RealBadAngel: docs
17:13 RealBadAngel sure, i can add that, thats not the problem
17:14 Calinou paramtype = "light" means the node may store light info
17:14 RealBadAngel i mean the code
17:14 Calinou sunlight_propagates = true lets lights pass through
17:14 Calinou RealBadAngel, I'm not a core dev, but I don't see anything wrong with it
17:15 RealBadAngel that code in my opinion can speed up game a lot
17:15 Calinou can collision box be wallmounted?
17:15 Calinou like selection box
17:15 RealBadAngel can be any list of boxes of modders wish
17:15 RealBadAngel but point is can be a single box even when nodebox is complex
17:16 RealBadAngel before 100 boxes nodebox have same collison boxes list
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17:17 RealBadAngel now modder can define one collision box (rather bounding box) for the node
17:18 RiZom-91 Calinou: I understand, but why nodes not registered with sunlight_propagates = true lets lights pass through ?
17:18 RealBadAngel because maybe its default?
17:19 RealBadAngel can be, just check default contentfeatures values
17:19 Calinou it does
17:19 Calinou I was telling you to modify the code so that these nodes are not counted in line_of_sight
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17:22 RealBadAngel sfan5, so just the docs?
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17:46 RealBadAngel sfan5, added the field to the docs
17:47 RiZom-91 Calinou : Thx. I couldn't find where are written the default value of sunlight_propagates but I will try with this parameter anyway
17:47 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1746/files#diff-1305560bd8befb32862f0feeefabd02eR411
17:47 RealBadAngel RiZom-91, nodedef.cpp
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17:47 RealBadAngel but its set to false
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17:59 RealBadAngel sfan5, ?
18:03 Calinou by default it's false, RiZom-91, but glass has it set to true
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18:25 sfan5 RealBadAngel: looks good
18:32 RealBadAngel sfan5, ok
18:33 proller who lock it https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=7864 ?
18:33 proller and why he still have this privs ?
18:43 RealBadAngel kahrl, are you around?
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19:29 RealBadAngel kahrl i need a method to get scenemanager and i find igamedef very confusing
19:30 RealBadAngel why the heck it is reimplemented at so many places?
19:36 RealBadAngel i need only client side function, i tried to copy the getMesh function but keep getting weird errors
19:36 RealBadAngel /home/realbadangel/minetest-meshes/src/main.cpp:1253:10: error: cannot declare variable ‘server’ to be of abstract type ‘Server’
19:36 RealBadAngel /home/realbadangel/minetest-meshes/src/server.h:166:7: note:   because the following virtual functions are pure within ‘Server’:
19:36 RealBadAngel /home/realbadangel/minetest-meshes/src/gamedef.h:67:32: note: virtual irr::scene::ISceneManager* IGameDef::getSceneManager()
19:37 RealBadAngel so the the question is: WTF? ;)
19:50 RealBadAngel i found out that getTextureSource etc are reimplemented on the server side to be just dummy calls
19:51 RealBadAngel but getMesh is done just client side, in client.cpp
19:52 RealBadAngel or it overwrites irrlicht one maybe?
19:53 RealBadAngel even if so, why the fuck code for server and client is not splitted?
19:54 RealBadAngel celeron55, can you answer that?
19:59 RealBadAngel imho client side calls should be defined just for client
20:00 RealBadAngel re adding the dummy functions on the server side is waste of bytes
20:00 RealBadAngel and is causing such idiotic problems
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