| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i would ratther wait for jin_xi's code |
| 00:01 |
RealBadAngel |
native particles are faster |
| 00:01 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:02 |
kahrl |
it's not about performance *at all* |
| 00:02 |
RealBadAngel |
well, i can make them dependent on the crack setting |
| 00:03 |
kahrl |
I think that would satisfy everyone |
| 00:03 |
RealBadAngel |
what would satisfy everone would be nice menu |
| 00:04 |
RealBadAngel |
with slider for it, as well as for other stuff |
| 00:04 |
kahrl |
I don't want to sit in the menu tweaking 100 settings before I can enjoy a game |
| 00:05 |
RealBadAngel |
but you want to edit txt file |
| 00:05 |
kahrl |
tweaking 1 setting should work out of the box and not require tweaking lots more before I looks ok |
| 00:05 |
kahrl |
else you might as well be told to code the engine yourself |
| 00:05 |
RealBadAngel |
or you just want to block the change making it extremaly unaviable for newbies...] |
| 00:06 |
kahrl |
s/I/it |
| 00:06 |
RealBadAngel |
no adroid user will be able to use the change |
| 00:07 |
RealBadAngel |
our menu system is stuck, in dead end |
| 00:07 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no place to add anything new |
| 00:07 |
kahrl |
why is there no text editor on android anyway |
| 00:07 |
RealBadAngel |
youre coder unlike the most players |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
if you will continue to think that way we will loose players |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
as we continously do |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
mt is not newbie friendly |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
never was |
| 00:09 |
kahrl |
what do you think a player prefers? "uncheck the 'crack animation' checkbox" or "uncheck the 'crack animation' checkbox and, oh I almost forgot, you also need to increase the number of punching particles on settings page #42" |
| 00:09 |
RealBadAngel |
i think they want nice gfx effect |
| 00:09 |
RealBadAngel |
and fast |
| 00:10 |
RealBadAngel |
but our way is to make settings |
| 00:10 |
RealBadAngel |
which ends with most of the features never used |
| 00:10 |
RealBadAngel |
just by hardcore freaks |
| 00:11 |
RealBadAngel |
have you ever seen comments on android for our clones? |
| 00:11 |
RealBadAngel |
i saw some in polish |
| 00:12 |
kahrl |
I don't care about the clones |
| 00:13 |
RealBadAngel |
but they were about basic things |
| 00:13 |
RealBadAngel |
our game is hardcore |
| 00:13 |
RealBadAngel |
even the mods cannot be easily installed |
| 00:13 |
RealBadAngel |
see names of folders issue |
| 00:14 |
RealBadAngel |
if i see such question i dont answer anymore, im tired of this shit |
| 00:14 |
kahrl |
how is that related to anything? |
| 00:15 |
RealBadAngel |
its the same |
| 00:15 |
RealBadAngel |
its about the gameplay |
| 00:15 |
kahrl |
and I think the authors of the clones just cared about quick buck and not ease of use of anything |
| 00:16 |
RealBadAngel |
they just showed us to others |
| 00:16 |
RealBadAngel |
and folks commented our errors not the the fork makers |
| 00:17 |
kahrl |
remember that this is primarily a PC game |
| 00:17 |
RealBadAngel |
how long the naming folders issue has to be here to solve it? |
| 00:17 |
RealBadAngel |
why the fuck name of the folder has to mean anything? |
| 00:17 |
kahrl |
it's not our fault if someone does a bad porting to mobile job (and remember that was before our android port) |
| 00:17 |
RealBadAngel |
answer above |
| 00:18 |
RealBadAngel |
how many hundreds of times have you saw error reports because of that? |
| 00:18 |
kahrl |
I'm tired of the mod name discussion so I won't answer |
| 00:18 |
kahrl |
it leads to nowhere |
| 00:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i pointed the solution |
| 00:19 |
RealBadAngel |
file with modname |
| 00:19 |
RealBadAngel |
but nobody cares |
| 00:19 |
RealBadAngel |
better to answer (or not) the error reports |
| 00:20 |
RealBadAngel |
this is one of the features i requested from other devs |
| 00:20 |
RealBadAngel |
but everybody has that deep in the ... |
| 00:21 |
RealBadAngel |
same for database key storage |
| 00:24 |
kahrl |
what about database key storage? |
| 00:24 |
|
mos_basik_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:26 |
RealBadAngel |
store lua tables in a database |
| 00:26 |
paramat |
MT is a little newbie-unfriendly, but that's good, it filters out those with little commitment, and the stupid people |
| 00:26 |
RealBadAngel |
like per player mod settings ec |
| 00:26 |
RealBadAngel |
paramat, atm it filters all the players out there |
| 00:27 |
jin_xi |
paramat: its a game suitable for the very young so it needs to be newbie friendly imo |
| 00:27 |
RealBadAngel |
not everybody is an IT expert |
| 00:27 |
paramat |
hm, well good point |
| 00:27 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: not a topic I followed, link to issue? |
| 00:28 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, after a several months? selat already made that for freeminer |
| 00:28 |
kahrl |
cool |
| 00:28 |
paramat |
RBA perhaps you could keep 2 forks of MT, one being exactly how you want it, for your own use, second fork is where you compromise a little more, so we can benefit from your good work |
| 00:29 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, not cool because mt cant have it |
| 00:29 |
RealBadAngel |
same for circuits |
| 00:29 |
RealBadAngel |
another shame for us |
| 00:30 |
RealBadAngel |
if you dont know, redstone was one of the pillars of mc success |
| 00:30 |
RealBadAngel |
we refused to have stable and fast circuits simulator |
| 00:31 |
paramat |
in my mods i often state 'change mod folder name to ...' to help people |
| 00:31 |
RealBadAngel |
we just follow the same old rule, shoot own foot each time we can aim at something |
| 00:31 |
RealBadAngel |
just to scare everybody around |
| 00:32 |
jin_xi |
hm, im still thinking about that texture leak. why do we keep all textures when they are recombined? |
| 00:32 |
RealBadAngel |
paramat, thats not a solution, by any meaning |
| 00:34 |
paramat |
it's obvious you want to make big, controversial changes to MT, and have a very different AV style, so to contribute you may need to compromise a little |
| 00:34 |
kahrl |
I never really looked at the circuit thing either because it's outside my area, but I figured there wasn't much interest because mesecons exists |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, so the others took it |
| 00:35 |
kahrl |
and that's cool |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
that means that mesecons are not widely used |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
becaue theyre server killer |
| 00:36 |
RealBadAngel |
mods are too slow for them to be widely used in multiplayer enviroment |
| 00:36 |
kahrl |
and how is a pull request more "stable" than a widely tested mod? |
| 00:36 |
RealBadAngel |
so mesecons will be never as cool for new players |
| 00:37 |
kahrl |
at the time I looked there was no reports of any tests |
| 00:37 |
RealBadAngel |
because servers wont use it just |
| 00:37 |
RealBadAngel |
for sake of speed |
| 00:37 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, even minetest classic has circuits, where have you been last few months? |
| 00:38 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:38 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:38 |
RealBadAngel |
we are killing anything new that tries to come |
| 00:41 |
|
rickmcfarley joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:41 |
kahrl |
again, not my area, ask the other devs |
| 00:41 |
paramat |
RBA, from following IRC and the forum, you are possibly our most popular dev, MT community (and myself) are very keen to see your work get merged, so please compromise a little? =) *pweez* |
| 00:42 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: all I can say from quickly looking at the PR is that the textures look much worse compared to mesecons |
| 00:43 |
RealBadAngel |
09:42:49 < celeron55> i'm surprised how well that is done |
| 00:43 |
RealBadAngel |
textures are secondary |
| 00:43 |
kahrl |
I guess the textures gave the other devs a bad impression |
| 00:43 |
RealBadAngel |
and absolutely had no meaning at all |
| 00:44 |
RealBadAngel |
code was important |
| 00:45 |
kahrl |
first impression is always important |
| 00:46 |
RealBadAngel |
not every coder can make good gfx for his code |
| 00:46 |
RealBadAngel |
his work should be completed with further changes |
| 00:46 |
RealBadAngel |
like the visuals |
| 00:46 |
kahrl |
so since this has been used for a while, I'm sure someone made some textures? |
| 00:47 |
RealBadAngel |
in mt? |
| 00:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont think so |
| 00:47 |
kahrl |
no, in classic or fm |
| 00:47 |
RealBadAngel |
we forced selat to move to fm |
| 00:47 |
RealBadAngel |
another coder lost |
| 00:47 |
proller |
cool |
| 00:48 |
RealBadAngel |
how many coder we need to lost to understand something? |
| 00:48 |
RealBadAngel |
all of them? |
| 00:49 |
kahrl |
I'm the only dev reading this and I wasn't the one who blocked those, so what do you intend my telling me this? |
| 00:49 |
kahrl |
s/my/by |
| 00:51 |
RealBadAngel |
others can propably read that too |
| 00:52 |
RealBadAngel |
i can see hmmmm sfan5 celeron55 ShadowNinja online |
| 00:52 |
RealBadAngel |
and proller and darkrose laughing |
| 00:53 |
proller |
HA-HA-HA --^ |
| 00:53 |
kahrl |
those didn't block the circuit PR (not sure about the other PRs) |
| 00:54 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, circuits were just an example (important anyway) |
| 00:54 |
RealBadAngel |
nothing of value gets merged |
| 00:55 |
RealBadAngel |
rarely some slight fixes or secondary features |
| 00:55 |
kahrl |
and what is your constructive idea to change that? |
| 00:55 |
RealBadAngel |
which are copies of already existing ones |
| 00:56 |
RealBadAngel |
stop treating dev as stable |
| 00:56 |
kahrl |
and I see quite a lot of major stuff on http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog |
| 00:56 |
RealBadAngel |
this is one of the reasons new code is not merged |
| 00:56 |
kahrl |
although I agree it has slowed down lately |
| 00:57 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: users are treating dev as stable |
| 00:57 |
RealBadAngel |
blockers want to be it perfect |
| 00:57 |
kahrl |
so we essentially have to |
| 00:57 |
RealBadAngel |
while it should be tested and improved over time |
| 00:57 |
RealBadAngel |
no we dont have to |
| 00:57 |
RealBadAngel |
stable should be used as its called so |
| 00:58 |
RealBadAngel |
dev should be devs branch |
| 00:58 |
kahrl |
not possible with our release schedule |
| 00:58 |
RealBadAngel |
whoever wants to help us test and improve the code then he should touch it |
| 00:58 |
kahrl |
btw, a lot of the debugging I've done lately was through git bisect, I will stop doing that if every other commit fails to start |
| 01:01 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, i was testing highlight for weeks before i pushed it |
| 01:02 |
RealBadAngel |
then vanessa found two issues in an hour |
| 01:02 |
|
Zeno` joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:02 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no other way i mean |
| 01:02 |
RealBadAngel |
code has to be made public in dev |
| 01:02 |
Zeno` |
Morning. |
| 01:03 |
RealBadAngel |
then more folks will test it and help improve |
| 01:03 |
kahrl |
well, we could probably be a bit less perfectionist, but it has to be carefully balanced lest we end up like fm |
| 01:03 |
RealBadAngel |
thats the fucking meaning of development branch |
| 01:03 |
Zeno` |
1729 I would call a bug fix rather than maintenance because using unititialised variables is undefined behaviour ;) |
| 01:03 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, ofc |
| 01:03 |
Zeno` |
err... bad timing |
| 01:03 |
RealBadAngel |
merging anything could be wrong |
| 01:04 |
RealBadAngel |
but merging things going in good direction, and help it is the other side |
| 01:05 |
RealBadAngel |
selat was propably unable to make circuits complete alone |
| 01:05 |
RealBadAngel |
he needed good drawtype, textures etc |
| 01:05 |
RealBadAngel |
who gave him a hand? |
| 01:05 |
RealBadAngel |
not us |
| 01:06 |
paramat |
the absence of the AV manager while RBA is around is a problem, i would like to see 2 other core devs get together to discuss and merge RBA's work |
| 01:07 |
RealBadAngel |
i will be able to make a PR within a few days |
| 01:07 |
RealBadAngel |
meshnodes are the most complex change to mt i ever tried |
| 01:08 |
RealBadAngel |
mapblock_mesh code is unbeliveably short |
| 01:08 |
RealBadAngel |
but thx to the supporting code |
| 01:08 |
RealBadAngel |
that change touches over 20 source files |
| 01:09 |
kahrl |
paramat: that would be great, but I don't see it happening |
| 01:09 |
RealBadAngel |
if i will rebase it i will do it just once |
| 01:10 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont be waiting months sitting here and asking |
| 01:10 |
paramat |
i will fight to keep you with us RBA, and for your work to be merged, as long as artistic AV changes are kept separate (because they will be controversial due to your different AV style) |
| 01:10 |
kahrl |
most devs are rarely here and typically miss each other by a few hours |
| 01:10 |
paramat |
hm indeed |
| 01:10 |
kahrl |
which can be done productively in an asynchronous medium like IRC, but it isn't done here |
| 01:11 |
kahrl |
(I don't blame them, nobody is paid) |
| 01:12 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, when im done with meshnodes, next step is to move highlighting and cracks away from mapblock_mesh at all |
| 01:12 |
RealBadAngel |
its a bottleneck |
| 01:12 |
RealBadAngel |
next is to turn nodeboxes into meshes on the fly |
| 01:13 |
RealBadAngel |
next the shaders update (thx to having meshes i can convert them all into meshes with tangents) |
| 01:14 |
RealBadAngel |
when i will have tangent space aviable i can turn on the lights |
| 01:14 |
RealBadAngel |
as you can see each piece of what im doing is on purpose and requiring previous work |
| 01:15 |
RealBadAngel |
if you still want to discuss if 3 particles are worth blockin my code, feel free to do so |
| 01:16 |
kahrl |
I suggested a way to change it |
| 01:16 |
RealBadAngel |
thats not the point |
| 01:17 |
RealBadAngel |
if i dont have enough power to force 3 particles to go in, what the fuck i can do at all? |
| 01:17 |
RealBadAngel |
and whats the point of the efforts in the first place? |
| 01:17 |
kahrl |
nobody needs to be able to "force" anything |
| 01:18 |
RealBadAngel |
im the only one who is coding AV |
| 01:18 |
RealBadAngel |
and im in charge of nothing :P |
| 01:18 |
kahrl |
working in a team means you have to accept compromises sometimes |
| 01:19 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why we have settings |
| 01:19 |
RealBadAngel |
so most of the players wont see the changes |
| 01:19 |
kahrl |
I already talked about this in #1710, but if you think you need to be able to force anything I will retract my agreement to make you AV maintainer |
| 01:19 |
RealBadAngel |
and c55 good sleep is safe |
| 01:21 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, you know im not forcing anything |
| 01:21 |
kahrl |
you said so yourself |
| 01:21 |
RealBadAngel |
remember highlighting? how it evolved? |
| 01:22 |
RealBadAngel |
i was listening even to paramat with his extremaly voxel approach |
| 01:22 |
RealBadAngel |
and tried to satisfy everybody out there |
| 01:23 |
kahrl |
yeah, because that's what it took to get the PR merged |
| 01:23 |
kahrl |
if you could just merge it nilly willy you probably wouldn't have listened to everything |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
i know when im doing something to be tuned |
| 01:24 |
kahrl |
see: 1705 |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
but damn 3 particles? |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
or fuckin name for a bit? |
| 01:24 |
kahrl |
you don't care about getting it fixed because your code is already merged |
| 01:25 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc i do care |
| 01:25 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why code from shaders was removed |
| 01:25 |
RealBadAngel |
thats one of the steps to turn on the lights |
| 01:26 |
RealBadAngel |
cpu and gpu doing the same all the time was just ridiculous |
| 01:26 |
RealBadAngel |
and PA knows that |
| 01:26 |
kahrl |
they weren't doing the same |
| 01:26 |
RealBadAngel |
yes they were, changing vertex colors |
| 01:27 |
kahrl |
doing it only on the gpu was the point of the old code which you call faulty |
| 01:27 |
RealBadAngel |
we cant do it only on GPU side |
| 01:27 |
paramat |
i will support your meshnodes pull RBA. the reason i chatted here tonight is because i saw you were close to a pull request, and i want to see it merged. fromour chat it looks good to me so far |
| 01:28 |
RealBadAngel |
not all will have shaders |
| 01:28 |
paramat |
i wanted to check for things that might get it blocked |
| 01:28 |
RealBadAngel |
paramat, that one is pure tool as you may call it |
| 01:29 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: ok, let me assume as devil's advocate that both cpu and gpu did it. You removed the gpu part, so by elementary logic it should still be working because the cpu still does it. Contradiction, so only the GPU did it |
| 01:29 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no AV change unless you do it |
| 01:29 |
paramat |
yes cool |
| 01:29 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, no, its done by cpu all the time |
| 01:29 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I just proved mathematically that it isn't |
| 01:29 |
RealBadAngel |
but threading shows how bad it is |
| 01:30 |
RealBadAngel |
but it is very same |
| 01:30 |
RealBadAngel |
shaders were just not slowed down by threads |
| 01:30 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats not the point |
| 01:31 |
kahrl |
it has nothing to do with threading |
| 01:31 |
kahrl |
meshes are all animated in the same thread |
| 01:31 |
RealBadAngel |
so maybe something other is slowing them down |
| 01:32 |
kahrl |
but not every mesh in animated every frame (try changing isAnimationForced() to return true and you'll see why) |
| 01:32 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, that system is sick |
| 01:33 |
kahrl |
how so? |
| 01:33 |
RealBadAngel |
its server side |
| 01:33 |
kahrl |
wat |
| 01:33 |
RealBadAngel |
lighting is calculated server side |
| 01:33 |
RealBadAngel |
then passed to client |
| 01:34 |
kahrl |
oh, I thought you meant the animation system |
| 01:34 |
RealBadAngel |
its done here |
| 01:34 |
RealBadAngel |
by changing vertex colors of all the meshes visible |
| 01:34 |
kahrl |
I don't want to talk about the lighting system again |
| 01:34 |
RealBadAngel |
you started |
| 01:34 |
kahrl |
well, not now at least |
| 01:34 |
kahrl |
no |
| 01:35 |
RealBadAngel |
with 1705 |
| 01:35 |
kahrl |
that's more an animation system issue |
| 01:36 |
kahrl |
I didn't look at the code so it might be obvious, but why can't finalColorBlend stay in the shader until hardware lighting is implemented? |
| 01:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i can make it in again |
| 01:37 |
RealBadAngel |
but if i know its obsolete? |
| 01:38 |
kahrl |
do it |
| 01:38 |
kahrl |
otherwise you're blocking a release until you finish hardware lighting and we agree to merge it |
| 01:38 |
RealBadAngel |
then face another discussion why i removed it... dead circle |
| 01:39 |
kahrl |
well, I assume it won't be needed anymore with hardware lighting |
| 01:39 |
kahrl |
so that discussion will be over quick |
| 01:40 |
RealBadAngel |
nodeboxes are dead already also |
| 01:40 |
kahrl |
nope |
| 01:40 |
RealBadAngel |
yup |
| 01:40 |
kahrl |
they aren't |
| 01:40 |
RealBadAngel |
who will want to make game slower? |
| 01:40 |
RealBadAngel |
or with worse effects? |
| 01:40 |
kahrl |
they don't make the game slower since you convert them to meshes |
| 01:41 |
RealBadAngel |
if r2d2 is faster than stair, think how mesh stair will be faster |
| 01:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i will do that, but with a price |
| 01:41 |
kahrl |
DLC? |
| 01:41 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 01:41 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 01:41 |
RealBadAngel |
waiting time |
| 01:42 |
|
mos_basik_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:42 |
RealBadAngel |
they will have to be processed |
| 01:42 |
kahrl |
how long does it take per mesh? |
| 01:42 |
RealBadAngel |
meshes are pretty quick |
| 01:43 |
kahrl |
I mean, how long does converting one node's nodebox to mesh take |
| 01:43 |
RealBadAngel |
slower nodebox code will have to be called for each node to get mesh buffer |
| 01:43 |
RealBadAngel |
then the buffer has to be cloned 23 times |
| 01:43 |
RealBadAngel |
of if its facedire |
| 01:43 |
RealBadAngel |
+d |
| 01:44 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/tYjiczUn |
| 01:45 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of getMesh from file mapblock mesh method fillSingle has to be called |
| 01:45 |
RealBadAngel |
for each nodebox out there |
| 01:45 |
kahrl |
uh |
| 01:46 |
kahrl |
why not just directly call the code that is in case NDT_NODEBOX right now |
| 01:47 |
RealBadAngel |
this is not runtime code |
| 01:47 |
kahrl |
? |
| 01:47 |
RealBadAngel |
this is nodedef.cpp |
| 01:47 |
kahrl |
I don't understand the problem |
| 01:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i can call it, theres already a method rdy to get meshbuffer for single node |
| 01:49 |
RealBadAngel |
which im going to use to convert nodeboxes into meshes |
| 01:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i just said it gonna take time |
| 01:49 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: it's incredibly wasteful if you don't need the extra things MapBlockMesh does |
| 01:50 |
RealBadAngel |
mapblock_mesh does so many unnecesary things thats just incredible ;) |
| 01:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and most important is that it is doing them all over |
| 01:51 |
RealBadAngel |
which slow down the client as hell |
| 01:51 |
RealBadAngel |
previously it was even able to call for files |
| 01:52 |
kahrl |
if starting a game with a decent amount of nodeboxes takes a long time because of a dumb thing like that, I will block your changes :P |
| 01:53 |
RealBadAngel |
if you will block things that can raise fps by half or something like that.... |
| 01:53 |
RealBadAngel |
feel free to do so :P |
| 01:53 |
RealBadAngel |
shot the feet, go on :) |
| 01:54 |
kahrl |
sure, I will block it |
| 01:54 |
kahrl |
but I told you how to fix it |
| 01:54 |
RealBadAngel |
wait, where? |
| 01:54 |
RealBadAngel |
<kahrl> why not just directly call the code that is in case NDT_NODEBOX right now |
| 01:54 |
RealBadAngel |
here? |
| 01:54 |
kahrl |
yes |
| 01:54 |
RealBadAngel |
uh |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
read what ndt nodebox does first |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
then come back again |
| 01:55 |
kahrl |
what about it? |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
it reads the boxes |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
rotates them |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
fixes them |
| 01:55 |
Zeno` |
I think most people would prefer slower load times if FPS was increased |
| 01:55 |
RealBadAngel |
makes cuboids |
| 01:56 |
RealBadAngel |
maps textures |
| 01:56 |
RealBadAngel |
before rotates the textures |
| 01:56 |
RealBadAngel |
then appends the collector |
| 01:56 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: that's exactly what's needed to make a mesh, isn't it? |
| 01:56 |
RealBadAngel |
mesh does the last step only |
| 01:57 |
RealBadAngel |
but all the steps have to be done at least once |
| 01:57 |
paramat |
i would happily wait a couple of seconds on startup for faster nodeboxes done by meshnodes |
| 01:57 |
RealBadAngel |
at startup |
| 01:58 |
RealBadAngel |
i will have to call mapblock mesh for each and everynodebox defined in the game to get its meshbuffer |
| 01:58 |
RealBadAngel |
then i can treat is as meshnode |
| 01:58 |
kahrl |
no |
| 01:58 |
kahrl |
just call the damn NDT_NODEBOX code (after moving it to a new function of course) |
| 01:58 |
kahrl |
no need to do the same thing in a roundabout way |
| 01:59 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, theres a method for that |
| 01:59 |
RealBadAngel |
in mapblock mesh |
| 01:59 |
kahrl |
yeah but it's inefficient |
| 01:59 |
RealBadAngel |
propably yes, but it is here |
| 01:59 |
kahrl |
you're free to optimize that function instead |
| 02:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i can do that |
| 02:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent started with that |
| 02:00 |
kahrl |
I fear that after you get your pulls merged, you don't have incentive to do so, because "node boxes are a thing of the past" |
| 02:01 |
RealBadAngel |
whats left for me now is copying bounding boxes to selection boxes, and make inventory images for meshes |
| 02:01 |
RealBadAngel |
all the other stuff is done |
| 02:02 |
paramat |
dreambuilder with 1000s of nodeboxes might be slow though, but then that'a probably slow at startup anyway |
| 02:05 |
RealBadAngel |
dreambuilder is unplayable atm |
| 02:05 |
RealBadAngel |
join spawn area |
| 02:05 |
paramat |
lol |
| 02:05 |
RealBadAngel |
you will get a few fps |
| 02:05 |
RealBadAngel |
courtessy of nodeboxes (tm) |
| 02:06 |
RealBadAngel |
also the signs, but thats other story ;) |
| 02:06 |
paramat |
fast in game justifies slower startup |
| 02:07 |
RealBadAngel |
im getting 3-5 fps on VE dreambuilder server |
| 02:07 |
Zeno` |
I just want to get more than 20fps on dual gtx-780 and i7 |
| 02:07 |
Zeno` |
so I can play the silly game hehe |
| 02:08 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no other way to make it fast than coding it fast |
| 02:09 |
RealBadAngel |
if nodeboxes are a bottleneck, we shall consider throwing them away |
| 02:09 |
RealBadAngel |
but wait |
| 02:09 |
RealBadAngel |
modders will do that for us :P |
| 02:10 |
RealBadAngel |
nobody will want to ride a bike with a shine new ferrari on the parking lot :P |
| 02:10 |
kahrl |
some of them probably, but a lot of them will stay nodeboxes |
| 02:11 |
kahrl |
they are just way more convenient to write, modify and generate programmatically |
| 02:11 |
RealBadAngel |
who told you that? |
| 02:11 |
kahrl |
this opinion has been voiced by various people in this channel |
| 02:11 |
jin_xi |
i think implementation is one thing format another. nodeboxes is a fine format. |
| 02:11 |
kahrl |
just grep the logs |
| 02:12 |
jin_xi |
if it can be handled more efficiently, then do that by all means |
| 02:12 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: remember that you yourself had to ask someone else to make a full node mesh in blender for you |
| 02:12 |
RealBadAngel |
it was two days ago |
| 02:12 |
kahrl |
while as nodebox it's 3 simple lines |
| 02:12 |
RealBadAngel |
now im able to make such things: |
| 02:13 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: yeah, you, but not every modder coded the mesh drawtype |
| 02:13 |
kahrl |
and has become a blender wizard |
| 02:13 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/ECELl3Y.png |
| 02:13 |
jin_xi |
well, i think its nice to open the world of minetest to meshes but its not mesh against nodebox |
| 02:14 |
RealBadAngel |
nodebox is a way to describe the mesh |
| 02:14 |
RealBadAngel |
faulty and slow |
| 02:14 |
RealBadAngel |
and with so many limitations thats incredible |
| 02:14 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I really hate that whenever you make something new, you think that whatever was there before is completely inferior and must be eradicated |
| 02:15 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe |
| 02:15 |
RealBadAngel |
but timings are cruel |
| 02:15 |
RealBadAngel |
nodeboxes suck big time |
| 02:16 |
RealBadAngel |
gtg, cya tommorow |
| 02:17 |
Zeno` |
cya |
| 02:19 |
kahrl |
cya |
| 02:34 |
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| 04:42 |
paramat |
hmmmm, in mapgen.cpp, 'lightSpread()' seems to call itself 6 times, is this to create a huge exponential cascade of light-spreads? or perhaps i misunderstand ... |
| 04:43 |
hmmmm |
it's how light is spread |
| 04:43 |
hmmmm |
it just keeps recursively spreading itself in each direction until the light has completely decayed |
| 04:45 |
paramat |
okay thanks, it was just a bit shocking to see |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
hrmmm |
| 04:59 |
hmmmm |
is it just me or weren't decorations used in minetest_game |
| 04:59 |
hmmmm |
and now they aren't... |
| 05:00 |
paramat |
dunno, they're used in mgv6 too? |
| 05:01 |
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| 05:08 |
hmmmm |
i am really confused |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
either I'm crazy, or at one point in minetest_game, grass used the decoration API for placement |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
same with cacti |
| 05:23 |
hmmmm |
this is pretty hilarious |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
so it seems like I was mistaken the whole while, minetest_game never used any decorations, and my code is broken because stone in the shape of trees surrounded by fire is sprouting up everywhere, all of a sudden |
| 05:25 |
Miner_48er |
hmmm that would be an interesting mod |
| 05:33 |
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| 05:38 |
paramat |
fire ... the ultimate error message of voxelmanip |
| 05:40 |
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| 05:50 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: how are you batching meshnodes? |
| 05:50 |
celeron55 |
does it increase context switches compared to nodeboxes |
| 05:50 |
celeron55 |
or draw calls |
| 06:10 |
paramat |
woo! just pushed your mgv5 branch commits into latest git and have mgv5 running |
| 06:12 |
paramat |
just one error message during compiling: In function ‘ll_sym’: /home/***/minetestd1cmgv5/src/lua/src/loadlib.c:76:21: warning: ISO C forbids conversion of object pointer to function pointer type [-Wpedantic] lua_CFunction f = (lua_CFunction)dlsym(lib, sym); |
| 06:12 |
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| 06:14 |
Hunterz |
anyone can help me wit this error? http://pastebin.com/bD3wYd3F |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
seems like it's trying to use lua as luajit |
| 06:18 |
Hunterz |
ah, thanks |
| 06:18 |
hmmmm |
should manually override the luajit library to be /usr/lib64/libluajit-5.1.so |
| 06:18 |
Hunterz |
it works now, many thanks for help |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
paramat, that's a warning, not an error |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
the problem is that gcc does not provide a POSIX mode with its -std=ansi or what ever |
| 06:38 |
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| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
you can get rid of the warning if you really want to |
| 06:46 |
Zeno` |
(without removing -pedantic of course) |
| 06:48 |
Zeno` |
http://codepad.org/Ny4pnCy7 |
| 06:50 |
hmmmm |
he can't modify that because it's a 3rd party lib |
| 06:50 |
Zeno` |
yeah, which is why I said "if you want to" :) |
| 06:50 |
Zeno` |
But what do you mean can't modify the 3rd party lib? |
| 06:51 |
Zeno` |
It's right there in the src tree |
| 06:52 |
Zeno` |
I wouldn't but it doesn't mean you can't |
| 06:52 |
celeron55 |
well gcc has this functionality that works like "#pragma GCC diagnostic push" which can be used to ignore warnings from includes 8)) |
| 06:53 |
Zeno` |
if you look at the man page for dlsym the way I did it is the way that POSIX recommends it be done, so Lua needs fixing upstream |
| 06:53 |
Zeno` |
or there is the pragma, yes |
| 06:53 |
celeron55 |
go complain to the lua devs then, we have nothing to do with thatt |
| 06:53 |
celeron55 |
-t |
| 06:53 |
Zeno` |
I didn't bring it up |
| 06:54 |
celeron55 |
dunno about lua's policies about this kind of stuff though |
| 06:54 |
Zeno` |
Personally I just ignore the warning |
| 07:05 |
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| 07:07 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, meshes are collected with a slightly modified append method. only difference to the original one is that it applies there color and pos to the vertices |
| 07:09 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/wQMknFEH |
| 07:11 |
RealBadAngel |
at this point theres no difference its meshnode or any other drawtype |
| 07:14 |
celeron55 |
so they are just added to the mesh like anything else |
| 07:16 |
celeron55 |
it desperately needs texture atlases but that's been the case ever since they were removed so whatever |
| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, theyre treated the same |
| 07:19 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc this way only static ones can be added |
| 07:20 |
RealBadAngel |
for animated ones i will have to code something in between mesh collector and entities |
| 07:20 |
RealBadAngel |
will solve that when removing highlighting and cracks from mapblock_mesh |
| 07:21 |
RealBadAngel |
both are causing unnecesary mesh updates |
| 07:25 |
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| 07:27 |
RealBadAngel |
texture atlases were a problem when we needed rotations for textures |
| 07:27 |
RealBadAngel |
that was a main reason to remove it |
| 07:50 |
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| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
it must be possible to handle it |
| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
they would increase performance a huge amount |
| 08:47 |
celeron55 |
removing them was just laziness |
| 08:53 |
* Krock |
is interested. opens log |
| 09:26 |
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Krock |
Wait. can I disable the stairs on the sky? |
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| 11:18 |
Zeno` |
Judging by the rate of commits this seems more like a 1.x.x version than a 0.x.x version |
| 11:36 |
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| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
Even bug fixes aren't being merged :/ |
| 11:39 |
proller |
nobody cares |
| 12:02 |
Amaz |
proller, I do. |
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| 14:30 |
Krock |
ppl here either gonna hate me or like.. |
| 14:31 |
Krock |
#1731 |
| 14:36 |
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| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
if(net_proto_version >= LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION - 1 && <-- is that tested? |
| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
if should have a space before the ( as well |
| 14:45 |
Krock |
Zeno`, everything's untested |
| 14:46 |
Zeno` |
The condition seems back to front to me |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
just glancing at it I would have thought it should be if (net_proto_version < LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION - 1 && net_proto_version > LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION + 1) { |
| 14:47 |
Krock |
Should I make a pull request to only convert all "if(" to "if ("?! |
| 14:48 |
Krock |
damn I did it the worong way there |
| 14:49 |
Krock |
mhm the callenge is now to edit that specific commit |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
just amend last commit and force push |
| 14:51 |
Krock |
net_proto_version < LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION - 1 || net_proto_version > LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION + 1) { prevent from connecting } |
| 14:54 |
Zeno` |
that seems right |
| 14:54 |
Krock |
there we go. |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
good luck :p |
| 14:55 |
Krock |
damn. need to rewrite the doc again |
| 15:01 |
* Krock |
gives Zeno` a cookie |
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| 17:58 |
Megaf |
kahrl: sfan5: kilbith: It failed to compile a static bin. http://paste.debian.net/plain/125609 |
| 17:58 |
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| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
thats because you don't have the static libs for those |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: just compile a non-static binary, it probably requires raspbian to use anyway |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:24 |
Sokomine |
commented on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1732 i really hope it will be merged! |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:35 |
kilbith_ |
Megaf: you can solve that ? |
| 18:35 |
Megaf |
nope |
| 18:35 |
Megaf |
Im rebuilding it no static |
| 18:35 |
kilbith_ |
like yesterday so ? |
| 18:36 |
kilbith_ |
we'll have the DRI2 bug again... |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:55 |
Sokomine |
i've got a problem with lua/luajit under windows. unlike the linux version, it does not seem to read the file entirely. does anyone have any clues regarding that? or knowledge of a more appropriate channel? |
| 18:57 |
pitriss |
Sokomine: hmm what about different line ends on windows? |
| 18:58 |
Sokomine |
pitriss: it's a binary file and read byte-wise |
| 18:58 |
pitriss |
ahh then IDK |
| 18:59 |
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| 18:59 |
Sokomine |
sample code is here: https://github.com/Sokomine/mg_villages/blob/master/read_test.lua it does read far less bytes under windows than under linux. only thing i could think of would be encountering an eof in the middle of the file? |
| 19:01 |
kaeza |
Sokomine, open with "rb" |
| 19:02 |
Sokomine |
kaeza: seems that did it! thank you :-) |
| 19:08 |
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| 19:57 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Hi, I build the latest minetest from master branch on ubuntu 14.04 an hour ago and I'm getting plagued by messages like "Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png" constantly. An idea ? The rats are displayed correctly by the way, but the game hangs a bit. |
| 19:59 |
Amaz |
Which mod are you using? |
| 20:00 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Mobs mods |
| 20:00 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
It's not local it's on a server actualy |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
SudoAptGetPlay, fixed in my mobs mod |
| 20:01 |
sapier |
ignore it most likely its an unimportant error in the model |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
Simple Mobs includes a reference to an UV file |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
edit .x file, remove reference |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
fixed! |
| 20:02 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
The error doesn't affect the drawing of the textures, but the game freezes for a couple of millisecs each time that error occurs. And I got like 10 errors a min |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
millisecs? |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
that's strange |
| 20:02 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
The game hangs, I recieve lots of errors and then I can go on |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
can you try disabling logging? |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
and delete debug logfile |
| 20:03 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
I launched the game in a console |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
I guess it's a disk io issue |
| 20:03 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
bad for me I guess |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
how big is your debug.txt file? |
| 20:04 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
nothing is logged in debug.txt, the logs are printed on my terminal |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
The time we spoke only : |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: sheep.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
kilbith_ |
STOP |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
kilbith_ |
^ sfan5 |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:05 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
sapier |
SudoAptGetPlay: NEVER post a logfile to irc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
| 20:06 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
Could not open file of texture: UV_rat.png |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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| 20:07 |
kilbith_ |
someone can kick ? |
| 20:07 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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SudoAptGetPlay |
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| 20:07 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
don't worry that's all ^^ |
| 20:07 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
srry |
| 20:07 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
It'sa short one |
| 20:07 |
SudoAptGetPlay |
But yeah no spam ... |
| 20:07 |
kilbith_ |
bravo hein... |
| 20:07 |
kilbith_ |
utilise pastebin la prochaine fois |
| 20:08 |
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Megaf |
Thats fantastic! https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1732/files |
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| 23:46 |
kaeza |
is anyone interested in adding crouching to minetest? |
| 23:51 |
kaeza |
read: I'm working on it, but no point in coding it "properly" if the answer is "no" |
| 23:58 |
paramat |
i can't see a need for it |
