| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:37 |
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| 04:47 |
VanessaE_ |
!tell sapier please update dreambuilder and give it a try with the profiler again. plants_lib got a major speed boost tonight and it/its mods should look much better now. |
| 04:47 |
VanessaE_ |
fek. |
| 04:47 |
VanessaE_ |
oh well. |
| 05:45 |
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| 06:26 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1553 |
| 06:26 |
RealBadAngel |
can we have this merged? |
| 07:21 |
Hunterz |
is there any eta to implement server console? |
| 07:21 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, what was the reason to copy finalColorBlend in shaders? |
| 07:22 |
Hunterz |
or is possible remotely control server only using irc mod for now? |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
Hunterz, idk |
| 07:30 |
Zeno` |
You can remotely control the server using IRC, yes |
| 07:31 |
Zeno` |
Everything except for restarting the server (you can shutdown, but your keep-alive script will have to restart unless you do it manually) |
| 07:31 |
Zeno` |
To put simply, if you have the privs, you can do anything from IRC that you can do from the in-game console |
| 07:36 |
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| 07:42 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: what would be the alternative? |
| 07:46 |
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| 07:48 |
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| 07:52 |
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| 07:58 |
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| 08:02 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, keep it on c++ side, thats way faster |
| 08:03 |
RealBadAngel |
and apply finalColorBlend no matter if shaders are used or not |
| 08:05 |
RealBadAngel |
i just figured it out thx to the bug, in mapblockmesh::animate its done that way |
| 08:05 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: but then you have to change almost every vertex in every frame |
| 08:06 |
kahrl |
because the day night ratio changes all the time |
| 08:06 |
kahrl |
well, not every frame, but you get the idea |
| 08:06 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, but its done already anyway |
| 08:07 |
kahrl |
only if shaders are disabled, right? |
| 08:08 |
RealBadAngel |
refresh is triggered even on camera move |
| 08:08 |
kahrl |
what's refresh? |
| 08:08 |
RealBadAngel |
rebuild the mesh |
| 08:08 |
kahrl |
huh |
| 08:09 |
RealBadAngel |
so it happens more often than changing the time |
| 08:09 |
kahrl |
I don't believe, can you point to code that does that |
| 08:09 |
kahrl |
believe that* |
| 08:09 |
RealBadAngel |
gimme a minute |
| 08:14 |
RealBadAngel |
cant find now wheres the code responsible for that, i just put dstream<<"Updating\n"; at the start of MapBlockMesh::MapBlockMesh |
| 08:14 |
RealBadAngel |
and it works all the time |
| 08:16 |
RealBadAngel |
hmm, not so often that i thought |
| 08:17 |
RealBadAngel |
digging triggers that and something else for sure |
| 08:18 |
RealBadAngel |
because with time and no actions taken it hapenns all the time |
| 08:19 |
kahrl |
it happens more frequently in minetest_game than minimal |
| 08:19 |
kahrl |
I guess it's ABMs? |
| 08:20 |
kahrl |
although I do see it triggering on rotating the camera as well, I don't know why that would happen |
| 08:21 |
kahrl |
are the meshes rebuilt if they had been hidden by occlusion culling? |
| 08:21 |
kahrl |
and/or frustum culling |
| 08:21 |
sfan5 |
isn't there a profiler for num_mesh_rebuilds? |
| 08:22 |
kahrl |
sure, but it doesn't tell you why |
| 08:24 |
kahrl |
actually it seems there's just a profiler for the time spent, not the number |
| 08:25 |
Zeno` |
how do code merges (pull requests) work? I mean, is there a reason why many pull requests are weeks (or months) old? |
| 08:26 |
Zeno` |
I understand that they have to be reviewed of course |
| 08:27 |
RealBadAngel |
Zeno`, at least 2 devs have to agree on the change for it to be merged |
| 08:28 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1553 |
| 08:28 |
Zeno` |
So... they need to be online at the same time to discuss it? |
| 08:28 |
RealBadAngel |
not really |
| 08:28 |
RealBadAngel |
sfan5, are you ok with above? |
| 08:29 |
Zeno` |
2 devs need to agree even for bug fixes? |
| 08:30 |
RealBadAngel |
for obvious ones rather not |
| 08:30 |
RealBadAngel |
sometimes i push bugfixes directly, buth rarely |
| 08:30 |
RealBadAngel |
*but |
| 08:31 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: also http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation |
| 08:32 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, are liquid drawtypes yours or c55's ? |
| 08:33 |
Zeno` |
thanks kahrl |
| 08:33 |
kahrl |
well, they are based on the water that existed in 0.3 and before, so c55's |
| 08:33 |
RealBadAngel |
im askin because you were modifying flowing lately |
| 08:33 |
kahrl |
no? |
| 08:34 |
RealBadAngel |
i thought so, rotating the textures on the flowing ones wasnt yours? |
| 08:34 |
kahrl |
oh, I didn't count that as "lately" :P |
| 08:34 |
kahrl |
but that was me |
| 08:34 |
RealBadAngel |
time is relative ;) |
| 08:36 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/content_mapblock.cpp#L381 |
| 08:36 |
RealBadAngel |
heres some code that affects liquids that are lightsources at the same time |
| 08:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i wonder why the heck only flowing ones not sources |
| 08:37 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: if that doesn't break anything it's ok |
| 08:37 |
RealBadAngel |
sfan5, it fixes lotsa things |
| 08:37 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: no idea |
| 08:37 |
RealBadAngel |
including very very old issues |
| 08:38 |
RealBadAngel |
like flowing water and lava having different brightness than sources |
| 08:38 |
RealBadAngel |
that one i remember trying to fix more than a yr ago |
| 08:40 |
kahrl |
water too? not just lava? |
| 08:40 |
RealBadAngel |
current textures were adjusted in an attempt to match each other |
| 08:41 |
RealBadAngel |
with #1553 theres no need to |
| 08:41 |
RealBadAngel |
it was because of shading/boosting the faces |
| 08:42 |
RealBadAngel |
in 4 different places and using different methods |
| 08:43 |
RealBadAngel |
no smooth used to decrease light level for faces |
| 08:43 |
RealBadAngel |
smooth did that based on normal.Y and boosting top face but horizontal only |
| 08:44 |
RealBadAngel |
and shaders did the opposite by shading out everything that is not the top face |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
and there was some more code for that i think |
| 08:45 |
RealBadAngel |
to make story short, total mess ;) |
| 08:45 |
kahrl |
that sounds more sensible than expected |
| 08:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i just made it all at one place |
| 08:47 |
RealBadAngel |
so the results are almost identical for all the modes |
| 08:49 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/V3Bphid.png |
| 08:49 |
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PenguinDad joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:50 |
RealBadAngel |
hi, PenguinDad, i found the reason for acid liquids being fucked up, will fix that asap |
| 08:50 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats not what you thought. that bug is here since always |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, so im gonna apply the very same code to sources too ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/content_mapblock.cpp#L381 ), ok? |
| 08:55 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I guess it's okay |
| 08:55 |
kahrl |
I didn't write that part of the code but if the change produces good results, sure |
| 08:56 |
RealBadAngel |
lava is not affected because it was LIGHTMAX |
| 08:56 |
RealBadAngel |
but acid from carbone was, because it was 5 |
| 08:56 |
RealBadAngel |
erm, 8 |
| 08:56 |
RealBadAngel |
so sources were full bright, flowing darkened |
| 08:56 |
kahrl |
I see |
| 09:08 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, also what do you think about the idea of removing code for makin wielded models and inventory images and making tools out of them? |
| 09:09 |
RealBadAngel |
included in main repo ofc |
| 09:09 |
kahrl |
what do you mean by making tools? |
| 09:10 |
RealBadAngel |
separate irrlicht app that would generate image/models for further use |
| 09:10 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean modders tool |
| 09:11 |
kahrl |
sounds fine, but why do you want to remove it from minetest? |
| 09:11 |
RealBadAngel |
from the game code, not from the repo |
| 09:11 |
kahrl |
that's what I mean |
| 09:12 |
RealBadAngel |
because it fails miserably in many cases, is slow |
| 09:12 |
kahrl |
it works for me, but then I don't use HD texture packs |
| 09:12 |
RealBadAngel |
in external app one could prepare correct models with settings or whatever |
| 09:12 |
kahrl |
why not fix it instead? |
| 09:13 |
RealBadAngel |
i tried but failed ;) |
| 09:13 |
RealBadAngel |
it worked to some point, i changed alpha trigger and got nice hd tools |
| 09:14 |
RealBadAngel |
but then VanessaE_ popped with her textures and caused that function to work for MINUTES |
| 09:14 |
kahrl |
giving HD texture pack authors a way to make their own wield models is good |
| 09:14 |
kahrl |
but don't force everyone else to do that |
| 09:15 |
RealBadAngel |
we can leave the code as failsafe |
| 09:15 |
RealBadAngel |
that sounds reasonably |
| 09:16 |
sfan5 |
uh |
| 09:16 |
RealBadAngel |
but providing inventory images and wielded meshes should become good manner |
| 09:16 |
sfan5 |
you're never going to get removing minetest.inventorycube past the rest of the rest dev team |
| 09:17 |
RealBadAngel |
so ok, failsafe then |
| 09:18 |
RealBadAngel |
but mods that have hundreds of nodes, dozens of models should take care of it |
| 09:18 |
RealBadAngel |
to not overuse the engine |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
why would modders include inventory images for simple nodes? |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
wat |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
thats like |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
not an argument at all |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
we should remove all texture modifiers and texture combining too |
| 09:19 |
sfan5 |
thats overusing the engine too |
| 09:19 |
RealBadAngel |
do you like screen blinking and lagging inventories? |
| 09:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont |
| 09:19 |
sfan5 |
preload_item_visuals = true |
| 09:19 |
sfan5 |
if you don't like that set that setting |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
neither i dont like enormous loading time |
| 09:20 |
sfan5 |
then find a different solution |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
i did |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
premade textures |
| 09:20 |
kahrl |
providing extra inventory images and wield models for everything = 3x as much data to download |
| 09:20 |
sfan5 |
removing/deprecating dynamic features is not the solution |
| 09:20 |
sfan5 |
just cache them to disk |
| 09:21 |
sfan5 |
that would mostly solve it |
| 09:21 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a solution |
| 09:21 |
kahrl |
is loading a wield mesh from disk & parsing the file really faster than extruding the image |
| 09:22 |
sfan5 |
it would solve the blinking RealBadAngel mentioned |
| 09:22 |
sfan5 |
but the blinking is a bug in Irrlicht anyway |
| 09:22 |
sfan5 |
rendering to RTT shouldn't affect whats displayed right now |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
MC draws them in 3D in the UI |
| 09:28 |
sfan5 |
isn't that .. like .. slow? |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
without prerendering (afaik) |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
no? |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
isn't that, like, what GPUs are for |
| 09:28 |
sfan5 |
hm, yes it is |
| 09:29 |
sfan5 |
why does MT do it differntly then? |
| 09:29 |
sfan5 |
different* |
| 09:29 |
celeron55 |
because it just happens to be that way |
| 09:30 |
kahrl |
has somebody tried finishing optimize_invtex? |
| 09:30 |
kahrl |
or benchmarking it |
| 09:31 |
kahrl |
I guess I should explain what that is |
| 09:31 |
kahrl |
it's a branch I made ages ago that renders the inventorycubes on the CPU without using RTT |
| 09:31 |
kahrl |
on my machine it's considerably faster than the RTT version |
| 09:31 |
kahrl |
(and it would fix the blinking issue, I suppose) |
| 09:31 |
kahrl |
but I never got around to finishing it, and at some point I didn't want to rebase it anymore |
| 09:31 |
sfan5 |
renders them on the CPU? |
| 09:31 |
sfan5 |
how? |
| 09:31 |
celeron55 |
i don't even remember that existing |
| 09:32 |
kahrl |
sfan5: software rasterizer |
| 09:32 |
kahrl |
coded in about a hundred lines of code iirc |
| 09:32 |
celeron55 |
if it's reliable and doesn't require constant maintenance (nobody will want to fix it), it could be fine |
| 09:32 |
sfan5 |
I see, wouldn't it be easier to use Irrlicht's burningvideo/software driver? |
| 09:32 |
kahrl |
maybe a few hundred |
| 09:33 |
kahrl |
sfan5: I wasn't sure how to embed that |
| 09:37 |
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| 09:37 |
kahrl |
and my rasterizer avoids the overhead of creating a scene for every inventory cube |
| 09:38 |
kahrl |
I think I looked into rendering the inventory cubes in real time like you said but I couldn't figure out how to configure the Z buffer properly |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
couldn't the scene be reused in the current code w/o changing much? |
| 09:38 |
kahrl |
in any case, the optimize_invtex branch is still around: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/tree/optimize_invtex |
| 09:38 |
kahrl |
wow, over a year ago now |
| 09:38 |
kahrl |
sfan5: it does that, at least it used to |
| 09:41 |
kahrl |
sfan5: but the only call that costs any significant amount of time is endScene() |
| 09:41 |
kahrl |
which can take tens of milliseconds even when you are just rendering a cube to a texture |
| 09:41 |
kahrl |
now multiply that by the number of nodes |
| 09:41 |
kahrl |
(the rasterizer takes on the order of microseconds per node, iirc) |
| 09:44 |
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proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:48 |
Zeno` |
so 1000 calls takes on the order of... 1 second? |
| 09:49 |
RealBadAngel |
it can take about a minute to prepare the images for big games |
| 09:49 |
Zeno` |
When I looked at things a few weeks ago it seemed most of the time seemed to be spent in png_getline() (or something like that, I can't remember) for the client |
| 09:49 |
RealBadAngel |
not a second |
| 09:50 |
RealBadAngel |
for a second no1 would bother |
| 09:50 |
Zeno` |
client side I wouldn't bother... server side I would |
| 09:50 |
Zeno` |
well, not in start up |
| 09:50 |
* Zeno` |
scrolls back |
| 09:51 |
RealBadAngel |
a minute for a client to start a game is annoying as hell |
| 09:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and we are talking bout item images only |
| 09:51 |
Zeno` |
well of course |
| 09:51 |
Zeno` |
a minute? |
| 09:51 |
Zeno` |
it really takes that long? |
| 09:52 |
RealBadAngel |
add other things that have to be done it appears one can go out to have a beer befoure connecting to the server |
| 09:52 |
Zeno` |
yes, well that's a problem |
| 09:52 |
Zeno` |
but I'll have the beer anyway |
| 09:52 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 09:57 |
RealBadAngel |
1m23s with item preload vs 12s without. (technic game) |
| 09:57 |
RealBadAngel |
thats what im talkin about :) |
| 09:58 |
RealBadAngel |
thats singleplayer ofc |
| 09:58 |
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| 09:59 |
RealBadAngel |
1m23s with item preload vs 12s without. (technic game) |
| 09:59 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, pasted that again for you ^^ |
| 10:00 |
RealBadAngel |
oops |
| 10:07 |
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| 10:07 |
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| 10:21 |
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| 10:30 |
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| 10:30 |
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| 10:32 |
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| 10:33 |
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| 10:36 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
can you please fix all this fucking seg faults and things like this? |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8A5IMkW-Kg |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
pff |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
I mean, this |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
10:18:44: ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: C++ exception |
| 10:37 |
Megaf |
Just stop implementing new stuff and begin to fix old stuff |
| 10:38 |
Megaf |
/home/minetest/Server/src/main.cpp:1945: int main(int, char**): Assertion '0' failed. |
| 10:41 |
Megaf |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1556 |
| 10:41 |
Zeno` |
yes, assert(0)... lazy code |
| 10:42 |
Zeno` |
and not a valid use of assert() anyway :/ |
| 10:45 |
Zeno` |
A fairly large amount of that code has not really been changed since MT was first put on GitHub (or shortly thereafter) |
| 10:46 |
Megaf |
and by the way, main.cpp is huge |
| 10:47 |
Zeno` |
over 1000 lines, yes |
| 10:47 |
Megaf |
this should be totally rewritten from scratch |
| 10:47 |
Megaf |
all minetest |
| 10:47 |
Zeno` |
actually main() (the function) is over 1000 lines long! |
| 10:47 |
Megaf |
and with moding and multithreading in mind from the begining |
| 10:48 |
Zeno` |
take a look at the_game() in game.cpp (?)... it's fantastic |
| 10:49 |
PenguinDad |
Megaf: you are aware how long it would take to rewrite minetest from scratch? |
| 10:49 |
Megaf |
yep, one week |
| 10:50 |
Zeno` |
It'd take a few hours to refactor main() |
| 10:50 |
Zeno` |
if that |
| 10:50 |
Megaf |
one person here did a thing like minetest without using the bloody irrlicht |
| 10:50 |
Megaf |
alone |
| 10:50 |
Zeno` |
at least then things might be able to be isolated :) |
| 10:50 |
Megaf |
minetest is such a simple game, no need for that huge code |
| 10:51 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: maybe half an hour |
| 10:51 |
Zeno` |
yes, but the patch would never be accepted |
| 10:52 |
Megaf |
I think they like meaningless crash messages and complex things |
| 10:52 |
Zeno` |
there are nested conditions and compound statements over 9 levels deep in main()! |
| 10:52 |
Zeno` |
for no reason at all |
| 10:53 |
Megaf |
yep, they only add and add more lines of useless code |
| 10:53 |
Megaf |
they need to stop adding and begin to take |
| 10:53 |
Megaf |
or rewrite |
| 10:54 |
proller |
your crash was fixed in freeminer long time ago ;) |
| 10:54 |
* Megaf |
kills proller |
| 10:54 |
Megaf |
proller: where do you live again? |
| 10:54 |
Megaf |
if you live in Europe, I’m just a few hours from you |
| 10:55 |
proller |
ok, im waiting you |
| 10:55 |
Megaf |
proller: should I bring beer? |
| 10:56 |
Zeno` |
The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program. <-- Linus |
| 10:56 |
Zeno` |
and this is 9 levels deep |
| 10:56 |
Zeno` |
I think the_game() even has 14 levels deep in places |
| 10:56 |
proller |
Megaf, good idea! ;) |
| 10:56 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: well, the Linux hernel is not a good example of how to make a good software either… |
| 10:57 |
Zeno` |
Megaf, true, but if I have to scroll up 400 lines to find an opening bracket then something's very wrong |
| 10:57 |
Megaf |
indeed |
| 10:58 |
Megaf |
and I’m not even a C++ developer, actually I’m not a developer at all, and I know the code is pretty wrong |
| 11:03 |
proller |
here much better code - https://github.com/Nocte-/hexahedra |
| 11:09 |
PenguinDad |
The fences there have the same problem as fences in minetest have |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:10 |
Megaf |
what problem is that? |
| 11:10 |
Megaf |
proller: that looks nice |
| 11:28 |
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| 14:19 |
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| 14:21 |
celeron55 |
proller: how is this supposed to work |
| 14:21 |
proller |
what this? |
| 14:21 |
celeron55 |
proller: hexahedra; i built it, and get into the menu; clicking any of the options does nothing |
| 14:22 |
celeron55 |
ah now i found a log |
| 14:22 |
proller |
i dont know |
| 14:27 |
proller |
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5ZGtWbqB4Y762Z44Rt0h5A |
| 14:32 |
celeron55 |
got it to work now |
| 14:32 |
celeron55 |
seems like it barely works; everything except rendering is crappy though |
| 14:33 |
celeron55 |
and rendering is crappy too on this modern intel chip with the --ogl2 option, have to use nvidia to even get pixels not blurred together |
| 14:33 |
celeron55 |
this might develop into something useful though |
| 14:35 |
celeron55 |
also i had to fix a path in its data files because it expected i would install it in /usr/local even while i set up the correct paths in cmake variables 8) |
| 14:36 |
proller |
but it semi-abandoned |
| 14:38 |
celeron55 |
seems so |
| 14:39 |
celeron55 |
do you know anything about this? does it run the lua stuff on the server or the client? |
| 14:41 |
celeron55 |
this is so much a minetest clone that it's adorable 8) |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
wow |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
it looks so much better though |
| 14:42 |
celeron55 |
development started and stopped 1 year ago it seems |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
nothing wrong with minetest clones |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
that's the point of GPL, after all |
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| 16:50 |
VanessaE_ |
celeron55: what's your take on #1553 ? |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE_ |
(from the earlier conversations, I don't recall seeing your opinion thereof, and I know you'll have one.) |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:53 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE_: eh |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
the first thing i see when looking at this is some arbitrary constant modification with no explanation whatsoever in a comment or the commit message |
| 16:55 |
VanessaE_ |
you mean the 13 -> 23? |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:56 |
celeron55 |
i don't even care anymore; i consider this permanently fucked, hopefully people who actually play the game will test it properly and comment on it |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE_ |
well if you meant that, this is why: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapblock_mesh.cpp#L328 |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE_ |
as for not caring... well nothing in code is ever permanently fucked you know :P |
| 16:58 |
celeron55 |
okay that change is probably reasonable then |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
i mean, i cannot check whether it is good or not in an objective way |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
it's just wrong in a way or another |
| 17:01 |
celeron55 |
it was pulled out of my ass originally, and changing something that was pulled from my ass based on someone else's ass is just that; the only way to judge it properly is to ask users |
| 17:01 |
celeron55 |
and i am not a user |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE_ |
haha well at least we know the origin of that value now :D |
| 17:02 |
celeron55 |
my opinion is however that rba has no right to dictate it and he has to ask about it from many people |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE_ |
RBA and I were trying to figure out if there was a reason, or if it was a typo |
| 17:02 |
celeron55 |
i would guess that line was a typo; not sure though |
| 17:03 |
celeron55 |
as i didn't attempt to make shader and shaderless rendering look the same |
| 17:03 |
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| 17:03 |
VanessaE_ |
personally, the way the patch behaves looks fine to me, though I'm used to the tops being a bit brighter -- but that's a problem with the normalmaps code, not the lighting, per se. |
| 17:03 |
celeron55 |
i just wanted to make them look good each on their own |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE_ |
of course. |
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| 17:56 |
PenguinDad |
It looks like #1553 fixes #1501 |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
shadowbot doesn't work so links would be helpfull ;-) |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier, please update dreambuilder and give it a try with the profiler again. plants_lib got a major speed boost tonight and it/its mods should look much better now. |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE_ |
s/tonight/last night/ |
| 17:58 |
VanessaE_ |
also hi :) |
| 17:58 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1553 |
| 17:58 |
PenguinDad |
sapier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1553 & https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1501 |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
hello, once I finished my current cleanup |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
nice |
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| 18:28 |
luizrpgluiz |
developers, I've been thinking of some ideas for mods minecraft that could be transformed into modifications or implementation for minetest :) |
| 18:28 |
Megaf |
Oh, he said the word that shall not be said |
| 18:29 |
* Megaf |
runs |
| 18:30 |
luizrpgluiz |
sorry :( |
| 18:31 |
luizrpgluiz |
but it would be so good ideas |
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|
Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ |
| 18:52 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: so what I did, in case you're curious.. I routed the main reg call through a routine to just log all the surfaces that need to be modified, had that also record all the biomes associated with them, then filtered out the dupes, and passed the list to a single register_on_generated call. |
| 18:52 |
VanessaE_ |
except for calls where surfaces need to have air checking disabled. those still go through the old code. |
| 18:53 |
VanessaE_ |
then that one single on_gen call evaluates the surface list and then parses the list of biomes and populates the block. |
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| 20:21 |
sapier |
VanessaE: thanks I already use a similar mechanism but quite a different way ... and I found a solution too now I'm below 170ms may |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
max |
| 20:21 |
VanessaE |
nice |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
unless you disable fishes then it's way less :-) |
| 20:22 |
VanessaE |
of course, you don't have to evaluate surfaces quite to the same degree that I do ;) |
| 20:23 |
sapier |
yes but for fishes I need to know what's around ... spawning a shark in a small lake is quite strange for example |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
true that. |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
so do you figure your profiler will be suitable for mainline? |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
it seems incredibly useful |
| 20:24 |
Megaf |
sapier: are you making a fish mod? |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
true but I don't have a way to show the stats |
| 20:24 |
VanessaE |
true. |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
Megaf: no but one of my mobs is a shark |
| 20:24 |
Megaf |
interesting |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
printing stats in 60s raster is usefull for debugging but not for mineline |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
+a |
| 20:24 |
VanessaE |
sapier: how about extra pages added to the F6 displays, with a command or key to dump them to the console? |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
F6 display would require a lot of c++ code ... chat command to dump once would be quite small |
| 20:25 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 20:25 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 20:25 |
VanessaE |
oops. |
| 20:26 |
VanessaE |
well a chatcommand would work at least. |
| 20:26 |
VanessaE |
wasn't there a key already defined that ..... wait, Home isn't it? |
| 20:26 |
VanessaE |
it prints "something" but nothing useful that I recall |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
hm, no wasn't home |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
that's quicktune., |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
which does nothing anyway :D |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
P prints debug stacks.. |
| 20:28 |
sapier |
:-) |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
F8 does nothing. Tie the print-profiler to that? |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
or better, F8 to toggle enable/disable of the profiler, and F9 to print the output. |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
when turned from off to on, it would reset its counters to 0 |
| 20:32 |
Megaf |
mplayer http://31.12.64.204/SlowRadioCom or vlc http://31.12.64.204/SlowRadioCom |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
just brainstorming. |
| 20:32 |
Megaf |
such a good radio |
| 20:32 |
Megaf |
wrong channel, sorry |
| 20:40 |
sapier |
I think I'm gonna do it the chatcommand way |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:41 |
sapier |
it's usually way to much data to print it in game |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
sapier: nonono, print to the *console* |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
not in-game |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
er |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
print to the *terminal* I mean |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
action stream? |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
but using a couple of hotkeys to trigger it. |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
logfile + console |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
well I dunno which stream is best; this seems like something that should go to errorstream so that you can be sure you get it regardless of log level |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
sapier |
action is the only one printed to console but not in game |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
well ok |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
what log level does that belong to? |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
"action" |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
I meant numerically. |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
I don't know |
| 20:47 |
VanessaE |
oh well no worries |
| 20:47 |
VanessaE |
you know what you're doing. |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
sometimes |
| 20:48 |
VanessaE |
incredibly useful tool no matt....... hahahah |
| 20:48 |
VanessaE |
.... no matter how you decide to print the output. As long as it can be copied from the terminal to somewhere, and the output is accurate, that's all that matters, right? |
| 20:49 |
sapier |
define "accurate" ;-) |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
accurate enough to use as a rough guide :) |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
enough to say "this mod took 10ms over the past 5 minutes" and it really did take between 9 and 10 ms :) |
| 20:52 |
sapier |
tracing doesn't show things like that |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
it's average per server step thus it should be in submilisecond area at best |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
I was kidding :) |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
and even more important are usually the worst case values |
| 20:54 |
VanessaE |
I just meant that if it says something like 10ms, it really was no more than 10ms for whatever the measurement interval was. |
| 20:54 |
VanessaE |
rather than reading 10ms when the measure was really 200000 ms ;) |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
that's not very likely right now ... at least not if I didn't add a bug |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
I really hate java |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
did you ever use java applications on linux? |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
what, trying to port your profiler over to That Other Voxel Game? ;) |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
oh sure, a few times |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
java is unstable cpu eating memory consuming and just slow as hell |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
this is true. |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
what are you doing that demands java? |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
eclipse ... |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
great ide but very very bad choice on language |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
ahhhhh |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
am I ever glad I still code the old fashioned way |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
text editor (+compiler as needed) + the program to test it with. |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
well once you got used to all those nice and shiny things making life so much easier you don't wanna miss them |
| 21:02 |
Zefram_Fysh |
oh wow, I thought you liked to do everything through web interfaces |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
do you have a eclipse plugin for your storage ;-) |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
still Zefram_Fysh I never did review or discuss code using eclipse ;-) |
| 21:09 |
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| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
sapier: wrong button? :) |
| 21:18 |
Calinou |
make sure you have a recent version of Java (OpenJDK) |
| 21:18 |
Calinou |
and make sure software slowness isn't your fault (happens too often) |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
nope restarted |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
didn't help ... and found out eclipse crashes due to some feature running havoc I didn't even know it exists |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
well I usually don't expect a built in feature to cause an application to deadlock ... and this doesn't happen on windows too |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
and by now I didn't experience any difference between different java versions on linux they're all crap |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
report bug |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
which one? it's slow and crashes without usefull error on different seemingly unrelated locations? |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
I know what I would do with a error report like that |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
"nice to know but I can't do anything about it" |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
does anyone know why chatcommands all return invalid command even if they work? |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
hmm maybe a tracing issue |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:35 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1557 here it is ... please test and give feedback everyone |
| 21:41 |
realbadangel_ |
hi sapier, Calinou |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
greetz. |
| 21:42 |
realbadangel_ |
you had "hello" in pm ;) |
| 21:42 |
realbadangel_ |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1553 |
| 21:43 |
Calinou |
I had no PM on IRC recently |
| 21:43 |
realbadangel_ |
sapier, Calinou going to merge that now, have enough votes |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
rba that's a big promise ;-) |
| 21:43 |
realbadangel_ |
but if you have some comments... youre welcome |
| 21:43 |
Calinou |
does it change visuals much? |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
are you absolutely sure you didn't miss a single case? ;-) |
| 21:43 |
realbadangel_ |
a bit |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
define "a bit" ;-) |
| 21:44 |
realbadangel_ |
colors are slightly different but very same for each mode |
| 21:44 |
realbadangel_ |
try it, its kinda cosmetic |
| 21:45 |
sapier |
usually those changes are only visible on direct comparison ;-) |
| 21:45 |
realbadangel_ |
VanessaE said theyre darker, paramat was saying too bright |
| 21:45 |
realbadangel_ |
thats something in the middle |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
only darker if normalmaps are turned on |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
otherwise they're fine. |
| 21:46 |
realbadangel_ |
normalmaps and bumpmapping brings the shadows |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
you just need to tune the lighting in the normalmaps code to handle the changed brightness |
| 21:46 |
realbadangel_ |
dark guys |
| 21:46 |
realbadangel_ |
so no wonder ;) |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
rba maybe you should stop changing it by some time as you'll never find something really matching everyones taste ;-) |
| 21:46 |
realbadangel_ |
theres no taste that should fit everyone |
| 21:47 |
realbadangel_ |
but taste is not the point of the change |
| 21:47 |
realbadangel_ |
this code solves many issues |
| 21:47 |
VanessaE |
sapier: in this case it's fixing a couple of things that actually did kinda go awry before. |
| 21:48 |
realbadangel_ |
this is not cosmetic change |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
well we're fixing this for about half a year now (at least felt) ... it's time to make it right for at least some time now |
| 21:48 |
realbadangel_ |
it really deserves the name "unified" |
| 21:48 |
realbadangel_ |
4 modes, 3 different approaches for shading the tiles |
| 21:48 |
realbadangel_ |
now unified |
| 21:49 |
realbadangel_ |
and with speedup |
| 21:49 |
realbadangel_ |
also solving a few bugs |
| 21:50 |
realbadangel_ |
do you remember water/lava sources and flowing having different brightness? |
| 21:50 |
realbadangel_ |
we were trtying hard to tune the textures to look the same |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
normal maps will always darken, by nature |
| 21:50 |
realbadangel_ |
that code fixes that |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
realbadangel_, bump mapping and normal mapping are separate things |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
I prefer saying “parallax mapping†in order to not make things confusing |
| 21:51 |
realbadangel_ |
no |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
so how are bump mapping and normal mapping the same things? |
| 21:51 |
realbadangel_ |
parallax mapping doesnt use normal maps |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
yes, it uses parallax maps. |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
which represent altitude; |
| 21:51 |
realbadangel_ |
it just need height |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
height maps, same thing. |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
if it's fine now merge it but please check everything at least twice prior merge as there've been to many glitches last times |
| 21:52 |
realbadangel_ |
which is usually stored in alpha channel of a normal map |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
<realbadangel_> do you remember water/lava sources and flowing having different brightness? |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
it's really cool, if you fixed that |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
does it bring any performance improvement? |
| 21:52 |
realbadangel_ |
yes it does |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
realbadangel_, yeah, but that requires normal map to be .png, so sometimes the height map is separate |
| 21:53 |
realbadangel_ |
there are different approches, i have chosen one compact |
| 21:53 |
realbadangel_ |
normal = rgb + height in alpha |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
yes, it's generally a good thing |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
but for 512² or higher, you don't want .png which can be too large |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
thankfully, most Minetest textures are 256² at most |
| 21:54 |
realbadangel_ |
i made lava with 2k |
| 21:54 |
realbadangel_ |
this rocks the house |
| 21:55 |
PenguinDad |
Would be funny if it's faster than 16² :D |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
as of minetests pov it doesn't matter if you use png jpg or even bmp |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
ok maybe time reading from disk differs :-) |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
sapier: in this case it matters because you want the normalmap to be lossless |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
otherwise it will introduce errors into the normalmap's gradients. |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
ok but that's not (direct) related to it's size |
| 22:01 |
PenguinDad |
But png would be a better choice than bmp anyways |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
yes especally as someone is supposed to download them ;-) |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
in time of SSD's havin them all premade at greater resolutions can be a good way |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
see Tiled texture packs |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
with a good normalmap you can make miracles even out of 16px |
| 22:09 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, i will fix your acid liquids too, but with another pull |
| 22:11 |
RealBadAngel |
before i have to push 2 different bug fixes to mapblock_mesh |
| 22:12 |
RealBadAngel |
then i can fix your isssue and rebase the water/lava shaders again |
| 22:24 |
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