| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:34 |
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| 06:20 |
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| 06:21 |
Lord_Evil |
Hello. Need some help with debuging Android build. |
| 06:21 |
RealBadAngel |
Lord_Evil, you shall talk to sapier then |
| 06:22 |
Lord_Evil |
RealBadAngel, where can I find him? |
| 06:22 |
RealBadAngel |
here, but a bit later propably |
| 06:23 |
Lord_Evil |
RealBadAngel, thanks :-) Spent two days building it, but now it sigfaults on me =( |
| 06:24 |
RealBadAngel |
he shall be there evenings and nighttime |
| 06:25 |
RealBadAngel |
CET |
| 06:26 |
Lord_Evil |
Ah, I see. Ok, I'll wait. |
| 06:26 |
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| 06:30 |
nore |
thoughts on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1441 ? |
| 07:27 |
hmmmm |
I wonder if it'd help if we used OpenGL texture compressio |
| 07:27 |
hmmmm |
compression |
| 07:27 |
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| 07:28 |
VanessaE |
YES |
| 07:28 |
VanessaE |
G*D YES |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
I have been asking for that for the longest time, hmmmm. |
| 07:29 |
hmmmm |
thing is that irrlicht doesn't seem like it supports that |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
and I do believe there is at least one compression loader for irrlicht |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
EDS or something? |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
no, kds |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
ran into it while looking for something only tangentially related. |
| 07:30 |
VanessaE |
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45988 |
| 07:30 |
VanessaE |
ktx |
| 07:30 |
VanessaE |
that's the one. |
| 07:30 |
hmmmm |
yeah I am reading that same thread |
| 07:31 |
VanessaE |
btw, I have an AMD R9 280X (3GB GDDR5, OC edition) on the way, if that's of any interest to you. |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
the KTX loader on that page was some guy's third party irrlicht modification |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
like i said irrlicht doesn't support it |
| 07:33 |
VanessaE |
yeah, that's what I gathered too |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
so I don't get it |
| 07:33 |
hmmmm |
do we dump irrlicht and start packaging our own vesrion |
| 07:34 |
hmmmm |
that isn't screwed beyond belief? |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
it is. |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
it's not a good idea at all |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
but that raises another question: |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
texture compression is very old tech |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
I mean, liek 15+ years old |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
like* |
| 07:34 |
hmmmm |
irrlicht is just highly deficient |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
if irrlicht can't and won't support it, what do we do? |
| 07:35 |
hmmmm |
well we went over this with something else a while back |
| 07:35 |
hmmmm |
i forget |
| 07:36 |
hmmmm |
I guess we're going to have to mix raw GL with irrlicht |
| 07:36 |
hmmmm |
as for the other renderer options, texture compression will be unsupported ... |
| 07:38 |
VanessaE |
I presented the options to Abe (he used to be a coder back in the stone ages). His suggestion is what amounts to ripping out irrlicht and rebasing against something else. |
| 07:39 |
hmmmm |
well i hope abe has a lot of free time for rewriting minecraft |
| 07:39 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 07:39 |
hmmmm |
minetest i mean |
| 07:40 |
VanessaE |
well I suggested three: rip out and rebase (e.g. could be OGRE or something else as the new target), or supply a patched irrlicht with all the new features we seem to need lately, or do something like you're thinking, which I think we can both agree will be ugly and hacky from a code standpoint |
| 07:40 |
hmmmm |
the latter of those three is actually the cleanest |
| 07:41 |
VanessaE |
in the short term it would be, yes |
| 07:41 |
VanessaE |
but I wonder how maintainable it will be in the long term? |
| 07:42 |
VanessaE |
RBA has gone through hell just making some of the simplest shader effects work correctly in the majority of cases (and that still falls down for some people) |
| 07:42 |
hmmmm |
providing a patched irrlicht vs. maintaining a bit of raw OGL that may need to touch some of irrlicht's internal interfaces |
| 07:43 |
hmmmm |
=/ |
| 07:43 |
hmmmm |
seems pretty obvious to me |
| 07:45 |
VanessaE |
well I shouldn't say a great deal more about this, lest I jump in over my head |
| 07:46 |
hmmmm |
texture compression is something that would help a lot but it's going to take a lot of work to acheieve |
| 07:46 |
hmmmm |
there's a reason why it wasn't already in minetest |
| 07:47 |
VanessaE |
I assumed it simply hadn't been considered at all |
| 07:47 |
VanessaE |
I mean, it wasn't needed |
| 07:49 |
hmmmm |
heh |
| 07:49 |
hmmmm |
once we get real lighting in minetest, glowmaps are next |
| 07:49 |
hmmmm |
there's so much potential |
| 07:50 |
VanessaE |
nice |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
I guess RBA will do those |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
oh btw |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
he's starting to attack the one-scenenode-per-some-minetest-element idea now |
| 07:51 |
hmmmm |
who RBA? |
| 07:51 |
hmmmm |
i was gonna do that |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
only he's pointing his efforts at a direct 1:1 translation |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
one scene node = one minetest node |
| 07:51 |
hmmmm |
oh.. =/ |
| 07:51 |
hmmmm |
hope it works out, i doubt it will though |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
except idk how much of that has been done, if anything |
| 07:52 |
* VanessaE |
pokes RealBadAngel |
| 07:52 |
hmmmm |
well on the bright side |
| 07:52 |
hmmmm |
if it's viable, then you can remove meshmaking entirely |
| 07:55 |
VanessaE |
hm, another compression thread was linked off of that last one, http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10488 |
| 07:55 |
VanessaE |
the download link therein still works |
| 07:56 |
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| 08:09 |
nore |
does anyone have thoughts on #1441? (is it small enough to go in before 0.4.10?) |
| 08:22 |
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| 08:29 |
Calinou |
what's the potential uses? knowing if a ore is registered or not? |
| 08:30 |
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| 08:38 |
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| 08:39 |
nore |
Calinou, for mapgens |
| 08:40 |
nore |
i.e., if you make a lua mapgen, you can spawn the ores that would have been spawned |
| 08:40 |
nore |
you can even use a custom spawning code... |
| 08:40 |
Calinou |
oh, this is cool then |
| 08:41 |
Calinou |
if nothing goes wrong while testing, why not merge it? |
| 08:41 |
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| 08:47 |
nore |
well, I need another core dev to agree... especially since we're in feature freeze now |
| 08:59 |
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| 09:18 |
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| 09:59 |
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| 09:59 |
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| 10:20 |
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| 10:30 |
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| 10:48 |
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| 10:55 |
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| 11:11 |
celeron55 |
10:53:07 < VanessaE> one scene node = one minetest node |
| 11:11 |
celeron55 |
lol what |
| 11:12 |
celeron55 |
that isn't going to work at all, i don't think RBA is that stupid |
| 11:12 |
celeron55 |
one scene node = one mapblock could work |
| 11:12 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: well I believe that's what the proposal was. I never said it would work though :) |
| 11:15 |
VanessaE |
[07-02 15:02] <RealBadAngel> node shall be a single mesh |
| 11:15 |
VanessaE |
[07-02 15:02] <RealBadAngel> with own properties |
| 11:16 |
VanessaE |
prior to that, |
| 11:16 |
VanessaE |
[07-02 14:38] <RealBadAngel> we just have to go back |
| 11:16 |
VanessaE |
[07-02 14:38] <RealBadAngel> node = node |
| 11:16 |
VanessaE |
so yeah. |
| 11:22 |
Jordach |
if this solves the aging problem of bad meshes beyond 32km then i'm for it |
| 11:41 |
crazyR |
hey all, im trying to create a button in the unified inventry. how can i close the unified inv when the button is pressed. the reason i ask is because it needs to load a diffrent formspec on button press |
| 11:42 |
crazyR |
oh wrong channel sorry |
| 11:56 |
RealBadAngel |
crazyR, waypoints are a perfect example of using UI's API |
| 11:56 |
RealBadAngel |
in waypoints.lua you have all the code examples you will ever need |
| 12:09 |
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| 17:27 |
nore |
does anyone have thoughts on #1441? |
| 17:28 |
nore |
(is it small enough to go in before 0.4.10?) |
| 17:33 |
casimir |
in the tool capabilites what is max_drop_level for? |
| 17:36 |
PilzAdam |
nore, no; feature freeze |
| 17:36 |
nore |
ok |
| 17:36 |
PilzAdam |
also people might be confused because changing the table doesn't affect the mapgen |
| 17:36 |
PilzAdam |
and doc is missing |
| 17:36 |
nore |
^ ah, forgotten that |
| 17:36 |
PilzAdam |
casimir, nothing; its use is to be defined by mods or games |
| 17:37 |
nore |
and about changing the table: it is the same as changing the nodes table |
| 17:38 |
PilzAdam |
no, nodes table is read after all mods ran, while the ore def gets loaded directly when calling register_ore() |
| 17:40 |
nore |
hm... and what about ABMs? |
| 17:41 |
PilzAdam |
same as nodes IIRC |
| 17:41 |
nore |
well, anyway, for biomes it is as for ores |
| 17:44 |
PilzAdam |
maybe both should be changed to work the same way as nodes |
| 17:44 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, ^ |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:22 |
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| 18:22 |
A_Zman705 |
hi everyone |
| 18:23 |
A_Zman705 |
any1 feeling neighborly today |
| 18:23 |
A_Zman705 |
im a complete newb just warning |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
this is the development channel |
| 18:24 |
A_Zman705 |
so far i used synaptics pack thingy and installed |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
for general talk use #minetest |
| 18:24 |
A_Zman705 |
yea im trying to git it to work |
| 18:57 |
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| 21:09 |
hmmmm |
PilzAdam, that's your call if you want to do something like that. |
| 21:09 |
hmmmm |
just so that you're aware, though, ores don't have a unique ID other than their internal array position, i.e. the order in which they were registered |
| 21:17 |
BlockMen |
do we have someone for building with MSVC now (for release)? |
| 21:18 |
BlockMen |
if not i would do it |
| 21:18 |
hmmmm |
xyz? |
| 21:18 |
BlockMen |
i thought he quit? |
| 21:18 |
hmmmm |
he did? aww |
| 21:20 |
hmmmm |
I don't understand this commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c410e9182d322a8c095ef94fbadf4d8f541e6b98 |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
why is this guy replacing the sysv sem_* functions? |
| 21:25 |
hmmmm |
http://ck-hack.blogspot.com/2013/09/unnamed-semaphores-and-pososx.html ahh.. wtf |
| 21:25 |
hmmmm |
anyway he should mention that in the body of his commit message |
| 21:28 |
hmmmm |
lol. the excuse for OSX not having sysv semaphores is: "if Apple implemented unnamed semaphores, how many XServes would you buy?" |
| 21:30 |
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| 21:33 |
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| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ea6c3835debfffa22163f048eae57928311143c4#diff-c03ca828c6b8a7695f2cd7e52c316a3cR778 |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
oh noes, what is this |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
it looks like random bits being set and checked that should be constants |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
i would like to see something like bool H_merge = param2 & GLASSFRAME_FLAG_EDGE == 0; and param2 &= REST_OF_STUFF_MASK; |
| 22:00 |
|
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| 22:03 |
sapier |
I've got a msvc2012 build system ...32 bit only |
| 22:03 |
BlockMen |
btw, do we release with leveldb? |
| 22:04 |
sapier |
hmm in this case I'd have a problem I never built leveldb for windows |
| 22:05 |
BlockMen |
i could do both builds (with leveldb aswell), but c55 want others to agree that i do BOTH builds |
| 22:06 |
BlockMen |
*or another person that does one of the builds |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
is there a reason why you shouldn't do both? |
| 22:08 |
BlockMen |
no specific, he wants as many ppl be involved in building on windows |
| 22:09 |
BlockMen |
honestly idk what/why he wants |
| 22:09 |
BlockMen |
but well, hes the boss |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
guess it's to do at least a little bit of checking |
| 22:09 |
BlockMen |
checking what? |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
checking that windows version behaves correct ;-) |
| 22:11 |
BlockMen |
pff^ |
| 22:12 |
sapier |
additionally there's another thing we have to decide ... what games to add |
| 22:12 |
BlockMen |
first: how many at all |
| 22:13 |
sapier |
I guess good old minetest is still set, is it? ... minetest_next is next one to be set, carbone most likely too ... nodetest maybe? and I personally like realtest too but that hastn't been suggested by anyone by now |
| 22:14 |
BlockMen |
i think for now we should just add suggested games |
| 22:15 |
sapier |
looking at vote and suggestion I guess calling this idea a complete failure isn't most wrong interpretation |
| 22:16 |
hmmmm |
could anybody explain this loop to me? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/sky.cpp#L464 |
| 22:17 |
hmmmm |
ohhhhhh i didn't see the reference to j in the conditional, nevermind |
| 22:27 |
sapier |
imho if blockmen wants to do those builds let him do them |
| 22:29 |
PilzAdam |
minetest_game, minetest_next and carbone? 3 times almost the same game? |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
we could drop minetest_game |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
guess noone would miss it |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
and I suggest not to include minimal in release |
| 22:31 |
BlockMen |
^ that |
| 22:31 |
PilzAdam |
of course not; almost all worlds depend on minetest_game |
| 22:31 |
BlockMen |
minimal needs to be droped in releases |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
hmm didn't think about that issue PilzAdam you're right |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
still minetest_game is dead |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
could minetest_next renamed to minetest_game replace it? |
| 22:32 |
BlockMen |
yes |
| 22:32 |
BlockMen |
but thats also not best solution |
| 22:32 |
BlockMen |
and it could break worlds because jungle is enabled |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
I'm just evaluating options right now |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
anyone better ideas? |
| 22:34 |
BlockMen |
keeping the zombie (_game) until comapitbility break (e.g. 0.5)? |
| 22:35 |
sapier |
my now I assumed we'd not break map compatibility ... at least haven't I seen any suggestion that'd require to break it |
| 22:36 |
BlockMen |
well, if we want keep compatibility for minetest_game for always we can 1) always include a not longer developed game or 2) reopen _game |
| 22:37 |
BlockMen |
but both is not really good IMO |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
that's why I asked if minetest_next renamed could replace it |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
but right now we need other opinions to this topic |
| 22:38 |
BlockMen |
i never saw it myself, but someone always said that jungles can break an existing world |
| 22:46 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Do you have a Minetest for android APK available? |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
not with current version no ... but that's a matter of minutes https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9389 here's latest version |
| 22:48 |
sapier |
guess I should build current official version one last time prior release |
| 22:53 |
kahrl |
sapier: how about an option to only show "recommended" games (i.e. minetest_next but not minimal, minetest_game)? |
| 22:53 |
kahrl |
sapier: if this option is enabled the "not recommended" games will only be shown if there is an existing world with that game |
| 22:53 |
sapier |
possible but a little bit hard to get done in time ;-) |
| 22:53 |
kahrl |
dunno, seems easy |
| 22:53 |
BlockMen |
nice idea, kahrl |
| 22:55 |
sapier |
well it's easy if we hardcode what is recommended but if you want some more usefull generic way we have to think about how this could work first .. and then agree to a variant of doing it |
| 22:55 |
kahrl |
we could even hardcore the names minetest_game and minimal for now and figure out a more general way later |
| 22:55 |
kahrl |
there aren't really any compatibility issues there |
| 22:56 |
sapier |
if hardcoding is accepted changes most likely are minor true |
| 22:57 |
BlockMen |
actually its already hardcoded, but other way round: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/defaultsettings.cpp#L191 |
| 22:57 |
BlockMen |
*well, "hardcoded" |
| 23:01 |
sapier |
hmm hardcoding would have to be done in gamemgr.lua Line 64 |
| 23:02 |
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| 23:02 |
sapier |
we'd have to remove those games from list after we got them from server ... but I'm not sure what's gonna happen if you try to configure them |
| 23:02 |
kahrl |
wait, are games received from a server now? |
| 23:02 |
sapier |
no from core |
| 23:02 |
sapier |
sorry |
| 23:03 |
sapier |
was a little bit to exciting afternoon today ;) |
| 23:03 |
kahrl |
heh |
| 23:03 |
kahrl |
how would the user configure them if they aren't in the list? |
| 23:06 |
BlockMen |
wait, we have now tooltips. how about tooltip: "not updated anymore" and make the icon half transparent, but letting the games in the list (for configuration)? |
| 23:07 |
kahrl |
thing is, the tooltip is only shown a while after you start hovering, so it's easy to miss |
| 23:07 |
BlockMen |
i thought its configurable |
| 23:08 |
BlockMen |
*the delay |
| 23:08 |
kahrl |
ah could be, I didn't look into it much |
| 23:08 |
kahrl |
that would solve it yes |
| 23:09 |
BlockMen |
oh, only in default settings |
| 23:09 |
BlockMen |
not per element |
| 23:09 |
sapier |
what about a big fat label diagonal above button? |
| 23:09 |
sapier |
LEGACY |
| 23:10 |
BlockMen |
or a dialog with info when chosing that game |
| 23:10 |
BlockMen |
i thing with 48x48 legacy is not easy to read |
| 23:11 |
kahrl |
you have to make sure the dialog is understandable if the user clicks "OK" immediately, by instinct ;) |
| 23:12 |
sapier |
maybe we should try the legacy option first |
| 23:12 |
sapier |
users are used to just press ok on warning dialogs |
| 23:13 |
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| 23:14 |
BlockMen |
true. but what makes you think they notice the label? |
| 23:14 |
sapier |
it's different |
| 23:15 |
kahrl |
how about a warning in the world creation dialog |
| 23:15 |
sapier |
and to be honest I think this is more about telling them later "you'd just have to read" ... and label is way more easy to implement |
| 23:16 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: The DPI scaling is messed up on my cousin's phone. The scrollbars are about 2px and the inventory is bigger than the screen. |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
world creation ... wait |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
maybe we could just remove them from dropdown |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
what phone does your cousin have? |
| 23:17 |
sapier |
for what you tell I'd guess some extra high dpi device? |
| 23:18 |
BlockMen |
personally i would prefer a dialog when chosing the game in world creation (since there are users neither on forum nor irc) |
| 23:18 |
BlockMen |
instead simply removing, but i think world creation is the right place for this |
| 23:19 |
sapier |
as mainmenu is already fstk I guess it'd not be a big deal to add this dialog ... but I personally aren't a friend of dialogs noone reads :-) |
| 23:19 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: On my N10 too. (300 DPI) |
| 23:20 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: His is a N5 (high DPI too) |
| 23:20 |
BlockMen |
concerning dialogs: irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-07-04#i_3794724 :P |
| 23:20 |
BlockMen |
the first part |
| 23:20 |
sapier |
you could try changing the gui_scaling value ... sadly I can't do anything about the scrollbars those aren't even scaled |
| 23:21 |
sapier |
I haven't even seen a setting to scale them in irrlicht |
| 23:22 |
sapier |
gui scaling should help in game ... but might cause initial menu to be to big ... guess you've got a small screen too? |
| 23:22 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Well, you'll have to fix that. 2px-equivalent scrollbars are useless. |
| 23:22 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: My screen's 10 inchs, his is 5. |
| 23:23 |
ShadowNinja |
+e |
| 23:24 |
sapier |
hmm should work ... guys ... I don't HAVE to fix it ;-) there are other developers that could help too ... still if it's a irrlicht issue there's not really much we can do about it ... no adding our own implementation is crap it's gonna be broken for any new irrlicht version |
| 23:24 |
sapier |
so let's hope irrlicht does support scaling it somehow ... still it's gonna be for next version |
| 23:24 |
sapier |
or some bugfix android release |
| 23:25 |
sapier |
I'm quite sure it's not gonna be the only issue popping up once android versions are spread |
| 23:33 |
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| 23:35 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: The "Config MODs" page is very squashed too. |
| 23:37 |
sapier |
would there be more room do display? |
| 23:46 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yes, loads of it. |
| 23:47 |
sapier |
can you post screenshots? maybe I can change the automatic scaling factor to better fit screens like that |
| 23:48 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: http://i.imgur.com/C5eBNLV.png |
| 23:49 |
sapier |
oops |
| 23:49 |
sapier |
that's strange |
| 23:49 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: And the "Minetest 0.4.9-123-g0123456" is cut off. |
| 23:50 |
sapier |
yes I see it |
| 23:51 |
sapier |
I'll do a new build for you writing dpi information to debug.txt ... this is way to small ... do you have gui_scaling set manually? |
| 23:51 |
Taoki |
GUI scaling option doesn't seem to do anything for me. Or is it for the Android version only? |
| 23:51 |
sapier |
should work everywhere (except üc main menu) |
| 23:51 |
Taoki |
sapier: Also, I saw your commit about the Android enabled native build. Where can I get Minetest for ARM from? I have two devices, and testing it is the least I could do\ |
| 23:52 |
sapier |
nowhere |
| 23:52 |
sapier |
android yes native arm no |
| 23:52 |
Taoki |
Yeah, needed to restart Minetest. Had the impression it would be applied automatically :P |
| 23:57 |
Taoki |
Any chance of it ever ending up on Google Play? |
| 23:57 |
Taoki |
It's easiest way to install, and would likely make us yet even more popular! |
| 23:58 |
sapier |
yes but not for 0.4.10 ... hopefully 0.4.11 will be good enough |
| 23:59 |
Taoki |
Awesome |
| 23:59 |
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