| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
sapier |
in worst case that driver uses a spinlock to make really sure noone can stop it from waiting |
| 00:00 |
sapier |
but that'd be visible in top, you shouldn't have any idle time |
| 00:06 |
Megaf |
Well, no matter what, there should be a way to tell |
| 00:07 |
sapier |
it is just do top and look if there's something idle |
| 00:09 |
hmmmm |
sapier, why is there a daemonize feature anyway? |
| 00:09 |
hmmmm |
I feel like it's stupid honestly |
| 00:10 |
hmmmm |
that's a job for a shell script to do |
| 00:10 |
sapier |
it's been requested |
| 00:10 |
hmmmm |
must you implement all features requested? |
| 00:10 |
sapier |
no but in situations where implementing is way less work then discussing that's an option ;-) |
| 00:10 |
hmmmm |
you're relying on UNIX-specific things which I don't like and it can't be helped in this case... writing for POSIX is the gold standard |
| 00:11 |
hmmmm |
like for example /var/run/minetest.pid |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
what if this runs on a platform that isn't windows but doesn't conform to the filesystem heirarchy standard |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
does Mac OS X have /var/run???? |
| 00:12 |
sapier |
right now it's 1:1 if there's another veto I'm just gonna revert it and forget about it because I won't spend any time on installing mac os or writing windows service code |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
what about weirder unixes like AIX? |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
and oh god no |
| 00:13 |
kaeza |
did anyone complain about it yet? |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
no no don't make this a service |
| 00:13 |
sapier |
anyone using those could just provide the fix |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
that's insecure |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
if you're going to daemonize something in Windows by making it a service, at least make it a "NETWORK SERVICE" account (low privilege) |
| 00:14 |
hmmmm |
a regular service runs as SYSTEM which is basically root |
| 00:14 |
sapier |
usually doing things like that on windows are way more complicated and I don't even have an idea where to start |
| 00:14 |
hmmmm |
lots of registry writing |
| 00:15 |
sapier |
I wont write it so if we add a new rule that any bonus feature always has to be implemented for all os I'm just gonna drop it ;-) |
| 00:16 |
hmmmm |
heh |
| 00:16 |
sapier |
we'd have to remove the threadnames too as windows doesn't even support thread names at all ;-) |
| 00:16 |
hmmmm |
so like |
| 00:17 |
hmmmm |
at least --daemon is an option |
| 00:17 |
hmmmm |
people can still choose to redirect output however they'd like (i.e. syslog) |
| 00:17 |
sapier |
yes it wouldn't have made sense to do it any different |
| 00:17 |
sapier |
it's only an addon if you don't like it you don't have to do anything to keep old behaviour |
| 00:20 |
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| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
hmmmmmm |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
if you call exit() from a child process doesn't that flush the buffers twice |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
stdio buffers |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
you should call _exit() instead if exiting from the child process, except no because _exit() is POSIX, not standard C |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
standard C would be _Exit(), except that's C99 |
| 00:24 |
hmmmm |
actually no, can't use _Exit(), it exists in C but not in C++ |
| 00:25 |
hmmmm |
so i guess _exit() it is |
| 00:25 |
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| 03:35 |
* zat |
pokes hmmmm |
| 03:35 |
zat |
:D |
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| 08:09 |
BlockMen |
00:16<sapier> we'd have to remove the threadnames too as windows doesn't even support thread names at all ;-) |
| 08:09 |
BlockMen |
^ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c00ed9dac3e3bed36ea06d80fc9856927f1cca95 ? |
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| 11:13 |
sapier |
BlockMen: do you have any way to see those names without running in debugger? ;-) |
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| 12:45 |
celeron55 |
what is the point of a --daemon option? |
| 12:46 |
LemonLake |
background process? |
| 12:47 |
sapier |
convenience feature of those who don't want to use shell scripts |
| 12:47 |
celeron55 |
modern systems recommend to not use such options, for example ubuntu's upstart |
| 12:47 |
celeron55 |
even if used as a system-wide thing |
| 12:48 |
celeron55 |
adding such options to cause maintenance burden for no benefit is stupid in my opinion |
| 12:49 |
sapier |
to be honest I don't care about that option so if you think it should be removed it's 2:1 against it and I'm gonna remove it ... wonder why things always have to be merged for ppl to look at it |
| 12:49 |
celeron55 |
s/thing/service/ |
| 12:49 |
VanessaE |
frankly I didn't see the value in it either. |
| 12:49 |
LemonLake |
^ |
| 12:49 |
VanessaE |
I thought everyone sane used a keepalive script anyway |
| 12:49 |
LemonLake |
haha |
| 12:49 |
sapier |
3:1 |
| 12:50 |
LemonLake |
who is the 1? |
| 12:50 |
VanessaE |
the guy who originally wanted it and hated scripting :P |
| 12:50 |
LemonLake |
oh lol |
| 12:50 |
VanessaE |
wtf was his name.. |
| 12:50 |
sapier |
I don't remember but 3 is bigger then 1 so that doesn't actually matter |
| 12:51 |
kahrl |
perhaps we could add a keepalive script to util so lazy people don't complain |
| 12:51 |
LemonLake |
meh |
| 12:51 |
kahrl |
(mark it as unmaintained) |
| 12:51 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: he didn't hate scripting but he said "scripting is hacky" |
| 12:52 |
celeron55 |
yes, a script in util/ would work well |
| 12:52 |
LemonLake |
sfan5: since when? |
| 12:52 |
VanessaE |
ah right |
| 12:52 |
sapier |
that feature is last on master any agreement to just reset master back this commit even if it doesn't follow the guidelines? |
| 12:53 |
sfan5 |
and "scripting is just to make programs do something they aren't supposed to" was his argument |
| 12:53 |
LemonLake |
thats a load of bullshit |
| 12:53 |
VanessaE |
that's... the whole G*d damned point of scripting. |
| 12:53 |
sfan5 |
lemme find out who said that |
| 12:55 |
sapier |
reverted |
| 12:55 |
sfan5 |
May 14 20:14:37 <crazyR>lol. come to think of it i have a suggestion....... what about haveing the minetest server side install a deamon. 1) makes our lives easier, also gives us the ability to auto restart upon crash without having to use hacky scripts |
| 12:57 |
sfan5 |
basically the argument resulted in this: |
| 12:57 |
sfan5 |
May 14 21:32:39 <crazyR>there is no argument. IT WAS A SUGGESTION THAT YOU GUIYS OBVIOUSLY DIDNT LIKE, AND DECIDED THAT I MUST BE BELITTLED IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR SMALL MINDS FEEL BETTER |
| 12:57 |
LemonLake |
someone is a bit mad |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
was* |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
my favourite: |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
<crazyR>no it not, and no one need to claim it, but when its being run on servers that cost in exccess of £40 + then it should be looked at as a proffesional application. |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
</pointless stuff> |
| 13:00 |
VanessaE |
oh yeah, somehow because we pay for servers to run this, ergo it must be enterprise-level code. um, wut? |
| 13:00 |
sapier |
no need to continue that discussion it's already removed |
| 13:02 |
sapier |
as everyone is here right now comments on #1200 .... exiting formspecs by doubleclicking outside ... |
| 13:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1200 -- Add support for exiting formspecs by doubleclicking outside by sapier |
| 13:03 |
VanessaE |
sapier: rubenwardy's comment aside, there is a potential conflict - rapid clicking outside a formspec is used to drop multiple items in rapid succession |
| 13:03 |
sapier |
can you drop multiple single items? |
| 13:04 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 13:05 |
VanessaE |
except wait, that might be by right-clicking |
| 13:05 |
VanessaE |
it's been a while since i last used that feature (+ I'm tired) |
| 13:05 |
VanessaE |
ok yeah, right click drops one, left click drops the whole stack normally. |
| 13:07 |
sapier |
ok doesn't sound like a conflict to me |
| 13:07 |
VanessaE |
until that shift-Q feature got added via the item_tweaks mod, that was really the only sane way to drop single items. so I take it back, I don't see a usability conflict there as long as the double-click action doesn't stop you from dropping a stack. |
| 13:17 |
sapier |
could you try the andorid version? ;-) |
| 13:18 |
LemonLake |
I will ^.^ |
| 13:18 |
LemonLake |
Do I have to compile it manually? |
| 13:19 |
sapier |
no I've provided binary packages https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9389 |
| 13:20 |
LemonLake |
Aww sweet |
| 13:20 |
LemonLake |
let me just get my charger |
| 13:22 |
LemonLake |
Does it not have reverse landscape? |
| 13:23 |
LemonLake |
Okay |
| 13:23 |
LemonLake |
I'll give you a screenie, this doesn't look normal |
| 13:24 |
VanessaE |
sapier: ok..installing it. |
| 13:24 |
LemonLake |
Sapier: The main menu is a bit borked |
| 13:24 |
LemonLake |
sapier: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21596039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-14-23-59.png |
| 13:25 |
sapier |
can you write your findings including what device you have to that thread? |
| 13:25 |
LemonLake |
Sure |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
seems you have a high dpi device too .. I'm about to improve our "gui_scaling" feature to a state where you can handle those devices by configuring this correct |
| 13:26 |
LemonLake |
Yea |
| 13:27 |
LemonLake |
oh... |
| 13:27 |
LemonLake |
that's DEFINITELY mesed up |
| 13:27 |
VanessaE |
sapier: inventory imagery is still messed up, but they aren't white squares anymore - they look like bits and pieces of other inventory images |
| 13:28 |
LemonLake |
^ |
| 13:28 |
sapier |
VanessaE: hmm then there has to be another issue ... I'm not really surprised |
| 13:28 |
LemonLake |
Just white dots with some brown at the bottom right for dirt |
| 13:28 |
VanessaE |
lemme get you a screenshot. |
| 13:28 |
LemonLake |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21596039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-14-27-47.png |
| 13:28 |
LemonLake |
There's one for ya |
| 13:29 |
sapier |
Lemonlake could you post that screenshot and the information about what build you tested to the thread, it's way more easy to find out what's wrong if you have more info |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot_2014-06-01-09-27-48.png |
| 13:29 |
LemonLake |
I am |
| 13:29 |
LemonLake |
I'm writing my findings in a document with detailed screenies as I go along |
| 13:30 |
VanessaE |
also a double tap outside a formspec seems to work fine for me to exit it, but this does not work to cancel the "esc/pause" menu. |
| 13:30 |
sapier |
that's strange |
| 13:30 |
RealBadAngel |
sidenote, you know whats messing android's screen the most? |
| 13:30 |
LemonLake |
Inventory is badly scaled for me |
| 13:30 |
RealBadAngel |
hotbar |
| 13:31 |
RealBadAngel |
flip it and bring to another edge |
| 13:31 |
RealBadAngel |
it doesnt have to be at bottom at all |
| 13:31 |
sapier |
that's even more work then fixing the healthbar so forget about it ;-) and it isn't an issue on most tablets anyway |
| 13:33 |
sapier |
because if you want to move around hotbar it's necessary to be a lua bar too ... with all consequences |
| 13:34 |
LemonLake |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9389&p=143606#p143606 |
| 13:34 |
LemonLake |
hold up, image tag went wrong |
| 13:34 |
LemonLake |
fixed |
| 13:35 |
sapier |
oh a samsung device again |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
mine's a Xelio |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
one of those el-cheapo no-name chinese ones |
| 13:35 |
sapier |
yes but spillz seems to have same issue |
| 13:36 |
sapier |
I guess it's related to the graphics core built in ... as far as I remember there are only about 3-4 families |
| 13:37 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 13:37 |
BlockMen |
#1349 rebased and ready to merge now |
| 13:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1349 -- Codestyle cleanup (main.cpp) by BlockMen |
| 13:37 |
BlockMen |
^ ShadowNinja |
| 13:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i had fucked up inv images on android-x86 too |
| 13:37 |
LemonLake |
sapier: did you even test this yourself? |
| 13:39 |
sapier |
of course LemonLake and it works quite fine on my device ... see the screenshot ;-P |
| 13:39 |
LemonLake |
ah |
| 13:39 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 13:40 |
sapier |
that's why I'm collecting infos about other devices because they obviously behave completely different |
| 13:40 |
sapier |
-s |
| 13:41 |
RealBadAngel |
quite the same as with glsl |
| 13:41 |
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| 13:42 |
sapier |
yes, yesterday I found out andorid emulator claims to support GL_BGRA textures but doesn't actually do ... was hoping that'd be an explanation for those devices with broken inventory textures too ... but no luck |
| 13:43 |
VanessaE |
well remember a little while back it worked okay |
| 13:43 |
VanessaE |
other than the objects being turned upside down anyway |
| 13:43 |
sapier |
that's strange |
| 13:44 |
sapier |
ok I don't know what the irrlicht guys do so maybe it's not been something I changed |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
that last Debug apk you had be try before you stopped calling it that, that one worked. |
| 13:45 |
VanessaE |
I have a file date of May 11 on that one |
| 13:45 |
sapier |
I don't have the irrlicht source code of that time, but if you can verify it's still this way I could try to build again with current irrlicht |
| 13:55 |
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| 13:58 |
sapier |
LemonLake: Can you add your debug.txt to that information? |
| 13:58 |
LemonLake |
No I cannot, sorry |
| 14:00 |
sapier |
why not? :-) |
| 14:00 |
LemonLake |
Phone died, charger died |
| 14:00 |
LemonLake |
And I don't even have it right now |
| 14:00 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 14:01 |
sapier |
sad .. ok guess I'll find another way to find out what that gl extentions that device supports |
| 14:02 |
sapier |
lemonlake scaling is done based on dpi but that's not enough |
| 14:03 |
sapier |
as you can see on your device scaling to match dpi will couse issues on small screens where you want gui elements smaller then they should be |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:48 |
Taoki |
Hey everyone. I saw some changes regarding 3D stereo mode being added, and this reminded me: Are there any plans for supporting VR headsets, such as Oculur Sift? |
| 14:48 |
Taoki |
**Oculus |
| 14:49 |
Taoki |
Kind of a hard question since I haven't *fully* understood how those headsets are implemented. I heard the head tracking is detected like a generic joystick, and the lenses as normal video inputs. But it's said most projects have to add code to actually get it working, so yeah |
| 14:50 |
sapier |
well theoretically side by side mode should do |
| 14:50 |
sapier |
at least if you set fov correct |
| 14:50 |
Taoki |
That's good. So the Rift combines standard side-by-side into each lens |
| 14:51 |
LemonLake |
I don't think it should be too difficult to implement, however the difficulty is actually getting the devs to agree on it and add it |
| 14:51 |
sapier |
I hope so but as I don't have one ... and I wont buy one for sure I can't guarantee |
| 14:51 |
LemonLake |
Ditto that |
| 14:52 |
LemonLake |
I wouldn't try one either since I get motion sickness, and I've heard that VR headsets can make you throw up within seconds of wearing one |
| 14:52 |
sapier |
maybe I'm gonny buy the sony one or samsung ... but for sure not a facebook device |
| 14:52 |
LemonLake |
sapier: Android's debug.txt is where? |
| 14:53 |
sapier |
/sdcard/Minetest ... or on some devices lokal storage /Minetest |
| 14:54 |
LemonLake |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21596039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-15-53-47.png |
| 14:54 |
LemonLake |
Is that what you need? |
| 14:54 |
sapier |
yes but I'd prefere in text form ;-) |
| 14:55 |
LemonLake |
The screenshot will have to make do, sorry |
| 14:55 |
sapier |
I try to find a common reason for those devices ... by now I know it's mali-400 gpu but that's still not specific enough to fix it |
| 14:56 |
Taoki |
LemonLake: Considering the Rift uses generic implementations, and not proprietary ones (which would suck), sooner or later it will have to be added. Depending on how common VR headsets will become |
| 14:56 |
Taoki |
I'm glad their age is finally beginning though :) |
| 14:56 |
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| 15:17 |
* VanessaE |
is back |
| 15:18 |
LemonLake |
k |
| 15:34 |
ShadowNinja |
BlockMen: Threadnames only work with MSVC, in the MSVC debugger. Windows itself doesn't support threadnames, but one of it's compilers supports it (in a horrendously ugly way) with it's custom tools. |
| 15:35 |
BlockMen |
ShadowNinja, ok. ic |
| 15:36 |
BlockMen |
and are you fine with #1349 now? |
| 15:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1349 -- Codestyle cleanup (main.cpp) by BlockMen |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:39 |
ShadowNinja |
BlockMen: Yep. |
| 15:40 |
BlockMen |
good. then i push it now |
| 15:46 |
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| 16:01 |
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| 16:02 |
Taoki |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9424&p=143615 I'd love to see thing being seriously considered sometime, although I'm not sure when and if it might happen... |
| 16:04 |
ShadowNinja |
Taoki: constants.h #define BS 5 Then change the adjustment that the cammera does. |
| 16:04 |
Calinou |
“Do a smaller cubesâ€, basically. ;) |
| 16:04 |
ShadowNinja |
Yep. |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
what if we just increase player collision radius and eye height, as well as step height? |
| 16:05 |
Taoki |
Woah... that's already possible? Could mean we can simply make it an option |
| 16:05 |
Taoki |
Calinou: Yes, thaere's more than just llowing block size to be different and that's it |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
(we need a way to change collision box of player) |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
Taoki requested this, to be able to walk in 1 block high passages as a rat |
| 16:06 |
Taoki |
Step size needs to respect that... with current collision box sizes. Also, to the mapgens know to properly simulate smaller block sizes? |
| 16:06 |
Taoki |
And yes, different block sizes for players would be needed for other things of course. My creatures mod would so need that sometime |
| 16:08 |
sapier |
why not just move camera up, set player physics correct and increase fov? |
| 16:08 |
Taoki |
Also, if it's a setting in constants.h, it might take some working to make it an option |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
increase fov?! |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
why? |
| 16:09 |
ShadowNinja |
Taoki: Actually, you probably should only change the camera adjustment. Leave BS as it is. |
| 16:09 |
sapier |
not a good idea, I guess it's used in some mods too as some api calls don't honor it |
| 16:09 |
Taoki |
sapier: Still, would that be everything? There could be a lot more like I said... such as the cave sizes being incorrect, step size (to walk on 1 block like a stair), etc |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
only change camera, collision radius, step height and movement/jump parameters. |
| 16:09 |
Taoki |
Can step height be changed? |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
increasing world scale is harder |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
Taoki, yes, search for 0.2 or 0.6 |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
(0.2 is step height in air, 0.6 on ground) |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
it's hardcoded :'( |
| 16:10 |
Taoki |
Ah. Would need to be made into a setting too |
| 16:10 |
Taoki |
Calinou: What about mapgen? Can it generate the same structures using twice the voxels, so cabes don't become miniature? |
| 16:11 |
Calinou |
that's harder |
| 16:11 |
Taoki |
yeah. The player would probably be unable to enter caves any more |
| 16:12 |
Taoki |
Though with mapgen v7 there might be some tricky settings that can be used |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
don't forget you're just doubling hardware requirements |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
and storage |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
and perceived world size |
| 16:13 |
Calinou |
(it “feels†twice as small in every direction) |
| 16:13 |
Taoki |
sure |
| 16:13 |
Calinou |
some people complain 62k × 62k × 62k is not enough already |
| 16:13 |
Taoki |
Less for hardware requirements though. If draw distance stays the same... but then you see twice less far :/ |
| 16:13 |
Calinou |
that's stupid |
| 16:13 |
Taoki |
And true about the world size. I complain about that not being enough too :P |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
it's not like we see too far already |
| 16:14 |
* Taoki |
nods |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
with view distance 100 (which isn't that far), the game is fairly demanding already |
| 16:15 |
Taoki |
yeah |
| 16:15 |
Taoki |
Still, this would be a nice feature to have and use for custom games |
| 16:16 |
sapier |
what's the actual usecase Taoki? |
| 16:17 |
Taoki |
sapier: Games being able to use smaller voxel sizes, if they wish to go for that design. This would allow building stairs and slabs directly, having smoother terrain you can walk up on, or even building larger household objects directly in-world |
| 16:18 |
Taoki |
Poles, door frames, stair rails, etc. That and more could be done out of blocks rather than scripted node boxes which aren't quite as flexible |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
increasing step height would be very useful to modders, same for collision radius |
| 16:18 |
sapier |
sounds like a hell of a machine you'd require to run that game |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
I believe these are not so hard to do, we have eye offset change already |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
have fun building them by hand, Taoki :P |
| 16:18 |
Taoki |
We could also have the trunks of trees be 2 x 2 voxels thick, so they can be dug out in pieces, more like chopping a real tree |
| 16:18 |
Taoki |
sapier: For twice smaller voxels? Nah |
| 16:19 |
Taoki |
If someone wants like 10- times smaller, that would indeed be crazy |
| 16:20 |
sapier |
splitting size by half results in 4 times as much voxels |
| 16:20 |
ShadowNinja |
Comments? http://sprunge.us/ZSVH?diff PilzAdam: <-- |
| 16:20 |
sapier |
if you split to 1/4 it's 16 times more voxels |
| 16:20 |
ShadowNinja |
The updatecontact seems fine since he says he'll update it. |
| 16:20 |
Taoki |
sapier: It would probably require draw distance to be twice smaller too. So it's only for someone willing to make such a sacrifice |
| 16:20 |
sapier |
wrong |
| 16:20 |
LemonLake |
I like the screenshot |
| 16:21 |
ShadowNinja |
And it can always be changed if someone else wants to take responsibility for it. |
| 16:21 |
sapier |
64 times more on 1/4 already |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
shouldn't a good 3d library be able to combibe all those faces/voxels at draw/render time anyways? |
| 16:22 |
Taoki |
People with rather powerful machines could make their own game, if they want to go for 1/4. Who knows... some computers today could handle that :P Still, 1/2 should be acceptable |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
night time screenshot??? |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
so the end result shouldn't be drastically different from what we have now |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
how much sense does this make? |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
there's a day one, at least |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
but I don't think putting even one full-night one makes sense |
| 16:23 |
Calinou |
the day one is also… outdated. |
| 16:23 |
Calinou |
old alien sand |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
combine* |
| 16:24 |
VanessaE |
sapier: and why is it that That Other Java Game can handle even smaller blocks (think 1/16 divisions) without a problem, as I've seen in some videos? |
| 16:24 |
sapier |
maybe vanessae but it's not only rendering, it's all the stuff we do about nodes too e.g. light values, mob movement ... abms |
| 16:24 |
ShadowNinja |
Nodebox-like things. |
| 16:24 |
LemonLake |
VanessaE: It stores them in it's own block |
| 16:25 |
VanessaE |
well sure but that stuff is done at mesh generation time, not realtime |
| 16:25 |
VanessaE |
(at least, light is, and that's the heaviest thing) |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
just press r and fly up, you'll get a impression about the performance impact |
| 16:26 |
VanessaE |
If That Java Game can do it, there's no reason we can't do it better imho. That's not to say there's necessarily a reason to do it *at all*, but to say that performance is a reason not to is probably a bad point to argue from. |
| 16:27 |
sapier |
shouldn't we start fixing the exisiting issues prior adding new ones? |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
(the only reason I can think of is the thing RBA and I have talked about with allowing higher detail in trees) |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
yes, we should. |
| 16:27 |
LemonLake |
sapier: +1 |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
hence, the "reason to do it *at all*" part. |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
this is a feature that can wait, for now. performance regressions in the existing code need addressed first. |
| 16:28 |
LemonLake |
How long can an issue sit there waiting for a dev to add it? |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
LemonLake: don't ask. |
| 16:29 |
LemonLake |
ok... |
| 16:41 |
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| 16:56 |
hmmmm |
oh sapier, http://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq2.html#null |
| 16:57 |
hmmmm |
anyway I hope you realize the whole reason why C++ encourages 0 is because of the increased type-safety, so you couldn't assign NULL to anything aside from void * |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
if C++ followed the old C pointer rules where void * could be implicitly converted to any pointer type, everybody would be using NULL |
| 17:00 |
hmmmm |
there is no "implementation dependent" thing about NULL's value when converted to an integer, it's always the integer value of 0. the thing that is implementation dependent might be how the integer "0" is represented in memory, or what NULL is actually defined as... the spec says that, when converted to an int, it must have the int value of 0. that's all |
| 17:00 |
hmmmm |
hope this finally settles the debate after all these years |
| 17:07 |
Piggybear87 |
No one in #minetest is helping. They have their conversation going on. http://tinypic.com/r/2eq8jft/8 This is my inventory, the cube shaped things are very dark, almost black ONLY in the inventory, once placed, it's fine. http://tinypic.com/r/2yy59g1/8 This is my sky, it sucks, but I'm more worried about my inventory images. Any help? |
| 17:09 |
Piggybear87 |
ShadowNinja, buddy, do you know what would cause this? |
| 17:09 |
ShadowNinja |
Piggybear87: Try changing your renderer. |
| 17:09 |
Piggybear87 |
To? |
| 17:09 |
ShadowNinja |
Piggybear87: Whatever it isn't ;-) |
| 17:09 |
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| 17:10 |
Piggybear87 |
In the settings menu? Like to mip-mapping or something? |
| 17:13 |
ShadowNinja |
Piggybear87: No, one sec... |
| 17:14 |
Piggybear87 |
I think I broke Minetest... My sky is rainbow now and it wont go away... |
| 17:14 |
ShadowNinja |
# Possible values: null, software, burningsvideo, direct3d8, direct3d9, opengl #video_driver = opengl |
| 17:14 |
ShadowNinja |
Try switching between the direct3d and opengl versions. |
| 17:14 |
Piggybear87 |
How do I do that? |
| 17:15 |
ShadowNinja |
Change it in your minetest.conf |
| 17:15 |
Piggybear87 |
minetest.conf? |
| 17:15 |
Piggybear87 |
Ok. |
| 17:23 |
Piggybear87 |
ShadowNinja, The closest two that "worked" were software, and burningsvideo. HOWEVER software made the cube shaped ones HUGE and the non cubes really tiny.... The colors were right though... And the burningsvideo made the colors right but dropped my FPS to 1-2 and the in game textures were weird. |
| 17:24 |
Piggybear87 |
Solution = new machine? |
| 17:24 |
Piggybear87 |
Dirct3D isnt't available on Linux. |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
hmmmm I've already wasted enough time on 0/NULL |
| 17:27 |
sapier |
Piggybear87: did you try disabling shaders? |
| 17:28 |
Piggybear87 |
Did that as soon as I installed, I knew my machine couldn't handle it. Only box checked it opaque water. |
| 17:30 |
Piggybear87 |
is* |
| 17:30 |
sfan5 |
Piggybear87: did you try buying a new graphics card yet? |
| 17:31 |
Piggybear87 |
Stop with that. Lol. I'm effing poor! My girlfriends laptop with OpenGL 1.2 works fine, it's not that. |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
Piggybear87: you'd be surprised |
| 17:32 |
LemonLake |
If you can't afford a graphics card that can even just run the game there's no point trying until you can |
| 17:33 |
LemonLake |
get one |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
different versions of opengl can react differently to the same piece of code |
| 17:33 |
Piggybear87 |
It's an older version than mine though. |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
RBA and I fought and fought with shaders for a long while until we had it working on all the different cards that people were using (and mine was a real bitch to work on) |
| 17:34 |
Piggybear87 |
And my machine's specs are sligtly better. |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
I'm sure it is |
| 17:34 |
Piggybear87 |
Than my girl's.. |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
trust me, it's not as simple as it looks |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
opengl's a minefield :-/ |
| 17:35 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
that's not to say your issue can't be fixed. |
| 17:35 |
* Piggybear87 |
pours coke on motherboard while crying "farewell good friend, it's been fun"... |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
now now |
| 17:36 |
Piggybear87 |
Lol. I WAS going to try and fix it on Singleplayer, but the two setting I was going to change don't exist anymore... |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, added your suggestion as comment: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1328#issuecomment-44783663 |
| 17:41 |
cheapie |
Is there a way to make a texture pack override sounds? |
| 17:42 |
VanessaE |
I believe you can install what is effectively a sound pack; technic music player uses something like that |
| 17:43 |
Calinou |
<VanessaE> opengl's a minefield :-/ |
| 17:43 |
Calinou |
so is Direct3D |
| 17:43 |
VanessaE |
not at all sure if sounds provided there in can override server-supplied sounds. |
| 17:43 |
Piggybear87 |
Is there a way to "turn" the inventory images? Like make the inventory 2D? |
| 17:43 |
cheapie |
VanessaE: If you're wondering, I'm trying to make those bees on VE-S be quiet. |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
--> priv msg |
| 17:46 |
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| 17:58 |
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| 17:59 |
xrazybud |
does anybody here have experience compiling for android? it doesn't seem like ndk comes with clang ...? |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
use gcc |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
uhh |
| 18:00 |
xrazybud |
the wiki says you have to use clang |
| 18:00 |
sapier |
no |
| 18:00 |
Calinou |
Piggybear87, using Lua mod, yes |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
sapier: would you please stop telling people how to compile my working copy for android |
| 18:01 |
sapier |
he's talking about your version? sorry he didn't tell this ;-) |
| 18:01 |
Piggybear87 |
Calinou, Would it work when I'm on multiplayer? |
| 18:01 |
sfan5 |
xrazybud: use ./build/tools/make-standalone-toolchain.sh --toolchain=clang to create a toolchain with clang |
| 18:01 |
sfan5 |
sapier: my working copy is the only one documented on the wiki, so... |
| 18:02 |
sapier |
maybe I should dokument mine too ... didn't expect just typing "make" to require a doc ;-) |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
well |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
I know I was wrong |
| 18:03 |
sfan5 |
you need to know where to get the code too |
| 18:04 |
sfan5 |
sapier: I suggest we change the page 'Android' to point to either Android/sapier or Android/sfan5 |
| 18:04 |
sapier |
most likely I got used to having time wasted by different ppl doing exactly same thing |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
compiling android versions yourself does only make sense for ppl doing debugging |
| 18:06 |
Calinou |
Piggybear87, no |
| 18:06 |
Calinou |
except if you hosted the server (but other players would see the ugly 2D icons) |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:07 |
Calinou |
other than that; you should probably modify C++ code |
| 18:07 |
Piggybear87 |
Then I wouldn't care really. Singleplayer sucks... |
| 18:08 |
Piggybear87 |
And I don't know C++, and I wouldn't know where to edit it. |
| 18:11 |
Piggybear87 |
I think for people like me, a 2D inventory option (client side, so it works on multiplayer also) should exist. The "blockcraft" fork for Android has that option, why can't we? |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
what do you expect the 2d inventory to provide? |
| 18:13 |
Piggybear87 |
I don't even know if that's the problem, but if the option existed I could try it. |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
what do you expect it to do? |
| 18:14 |
Piggybear87 |
Make the blocks in the inventory be just the face of the block, instead of slightly turned to show that it's a cube |
| 18:14 |
Piggybear87 |
. |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
and why? |
| 18:14 |
Piggybear87 |
Because the non-3D images show up on my machine, the blocks do not. |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
on pc? |
| 18:14 |
Piggybear87 |
Yes. |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
well if RBA does the thing in the inventory that he plans where the cubes are *real* items instead of rendered-to-textures, then this will be a moot point |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
that's interesting, because I'm looking for exactly this bug on android |
| 18:15 |
Piggybear87 |
"IF"^ |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
(as in, the in-world objects displayed in the inventory too) |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
Piggybear87: s/if/when/ |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
he says it'll be done next week |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
or that's the plan |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
Piggybear87: what graphics card do you have? |
| 18:16 |
Piggybear87 |
Integrated POS. |
| 18:17 |
sapier |
a little bit more details plz ... can you open your debu.txt file and get the list of opengl extentions? |
| 18:18 |
Piggybear87 |
Where is that at? |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
usually in your minetest folder |
| 18:19 |
Piggybear87 |
debug? |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
debug.txt |
| 18:21 |
Piggybear87 |
Can I have voice so I don't get kicked? |
| 18:21 |
sapier |
I suggest posting it to pastebin |
| 18:21 |
Piggybear87 |
OK. |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
I'm especially interested on the part containing a lot of "GL_something" lines |
| 18:22 |
Piggybear87 |
http://pastebin.com/EByXpLuq |
| 18:23 |
sapier |
that's all? :-) |
| 18:24 |
Piggybear87 |
What else do you need? Want me to delete it and rerun and copy the whole thing? |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
no I don't think that's gonna help |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
well I guess I'l get a list about intel 865g ogl extensions thanks |
| 18:25 |
Piggybear87 |
I'm sorry I'm not more help. I'm new to Linux. I'm learning though. |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
no problem you did help |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
I didn't know that issue occurs on pc too by now |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:26 |
Piggybear87 |
The dark inventory textures? |
| 18:26 |
Piggybear87 |
It's only the blocks, ingots, flowers, grass, papyrus, etc. are all fine. |
| 18:27 |
Piggybear87 |
But if it's cube shaped... |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
well you're lucky on android you don't see them at all |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
most time |
| 18:28 |
Piggybear87 |
I did on my phone. Only after I turned on 2d inventory, though. |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:32 |
Piggybear87 |
All I'm asking is this, Make it an option. That way folks with slower machines, like me, have an option to try and fix this problem (and maybe use less CPU trying to load the 3D inventory images). |
| 18:33 |
VanessaE |
Piggybear87: soon, it won't need to be an option |
| 18:33 |
VanessaE |
because the root cause will be removed entirely if RBA's work pans out |
| 18:34 |
Piggybear87 |
OK, fingers are crossed. It's playable right now, but I have to hover over the block in my inventory to see what they are. |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
vanessaE actually no, the root cause is abug within irrlicht not rendering to texture correct. there shouldn't be any problem in doing this, hardware is capable of doing it |
| 18:34 |
Piggybear87 |
Mine is? |
| 18:35 |
VanessaE |
sapier: well I was about to correct myself and say that the code that leads down the path to the root cause :) |
| 18:42 |
Piggybear87 |
Will I have to deleted and re-download/compile/install with every new version? Or is there a way to just update it? |
| 18:42 |
Piggybear87 |
delete* |
| 18:43 |
xrazybud |
sapier or sfan5 are you still here? |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:45 |
xrazybud |
when trying to compile irrlicht for andoid i get 'EGL/egl.h' file not found |
| 18:47 |
VanessaE |
no idea on that one, Piggybear87 |
| 18:48 |
VanessaE |
with linux global installs, it's just install-over-the-old-install) |
| 18:51 |
Piggybear87 |
I have the latest (when I got it) git version. I hope I don't have to. Linux is beginning to bug me... Lol. |
| 18:52 |
sfan5 |
xrazybud: use a newer android target when making the toolchain |
| 18:52 |
sfan5 |
e.g. android-14 |
| 18:52 |
sfan5 |
android-3 is too old |
| 18:57 |
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| 19:06 |
Piggybear87 |
VanessaE, how do you do a line break on signs? I want to add an address. |
| 19:06 |
VanessaE |
Piggybear87: --> #minetest |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
" GL_RGBA/GL_UNSIGNED_BYTE is always accepted" << these words claim that GL_RGBA and GL_UNSIGNED_BYTE are allways correct or am I missreading something?!?! |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
because on passing those values to that function I get told they're wrong |
| 19:21 |
xrazybud |
thanks sfan5 |
| 19:22 |
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| 20:18 |
sapier |
ogles is crap ... I found a (very ugly) way to fix the textures for areno (and maybe mali) devices ... sadly that one breaks powervr devices |
| 20:19 |
LemonLake |
hah |
| 20:20 |
sapier |
LemonLake you have a mali device do you have time to test if it works there or if it's a adreno only fix |
| 20:20 |
LemonLake |
nope |
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| 23:02 |
OldCoder |
Hi. I've cross-compiled MT clients 5 times today; each runs under Wine but crashes when others run under Win7 or Win8. 32-bits. Tried two different MinGW toolchains. Tried both -O2 and -O3. Standard buildbot downloads. Any suggestions on what to tweak? |
| 23:09 |
sapier |
native compiling? |
| 23:10 |
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| 23:11 |
kaeza |
>cross-compiled |
| 23:12 |
sapier |
native compiling was the suggestion what to tweak ;-) |
| 23:12 |
kaeza |
oh ok :) |
| 23:13 |
sapier |
and yes I know that's most likely not what he wanted to read |
| 23:15 |
OldCoder |
sapier, is MT giving up on cross-compiling? |
| 23:15 |
OldCoder |
Or has anybody tried this recently? |
| 23:15 |
* OldCoder |
will ask sfan5 |
| 23:15 |
sapier |
I never tried because all windows toolchains are way outdated |
| 23:16 |
OldCoder |
sapier, actually I have built a nice new toolchain |
| 23:16 |
OldCoder |
The old parts are Irrlicht, the sound libraries, etc. |
| 23:16 |
OldCoder |
Those may be where the crash is coming from |
| 23:16 |
OldCoder |
I will experiment further. Thank you. |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
why don't you just build everything to have a consistent state? |
| 23:17 |
sapier |
that's what I did native to get it work |
| 23:17 |
OldCoder |
sapier, because I don't have build files to produce Irrlicht curl etc. structured as the current buildbot script expects |
| 23:17 |
sapier |
ok |
| 23:17 |
OldCoder |
It will take a few days to build the support libraries and adjust them; but I will probably do it |
| 23:17 |
sapier |
guess sfan5 is way more helpfull then me as he knows his script |
| 23:18 |
OldCoder |
Yes; he is producing both 32 and 64 bit builds |
| 23:18 |
OldCoder |
I'll ask him how. Thanks again. |
| 23:18 |
OldCoder |
kaeza, I'm going to produce perhaps two more builds in a few minutes if you have time to test. |
| 23:35 |
OldCoder |
|
| 23:35 |
OldCoder |
Is anybody interested in trying a MT client cross-built with Irrlicht updated to 1.8.X ? |
| 23:47 |
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| 23:47 |
lemonlake |
Hey sapier |
| 23:51 |
lemonlake |
Block issue is fixed, testing DPI now |
| 23:52 |
lemonlake |
I don't have a minetest.conf |
| 23:54 |
lemonlake |
Alsio, whenever a new block enters the inv it flashes on the screen for about half a sec, intended? |
| 23:55 |
lemonlake |
Either way I'm out, laters |
