| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:53 |
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| 00:53 |
VanessaE |
ok, menu FAIL |
| 00:53 |
VanessaE |
20:53:53: ERROR[main]: MAINMENU ERROR: /usr/local/share/minetest/builtin/mainmenu/init.lua:911: attempt to get length of field 'favorites' (a nil value) |
| 00:55 |
VanessaE |
happens as soon as you turn on the public server list. once this happens, it's stuck there and you can't get the menu again until you switch off the public server list in your minetest.conf |
| 01:00 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297 |
| 01:03 |
SoniEx2 |
lack of hotswapping makes debugging and developing harder... java allows hotswapping... not sure how or if it can be done in lua/minetest... |
| 01:09 |
ShadowNinja |
~tell sapier <sapier> ShadowNinja: can you check if those icons are non npot2? -- Those item icons are ones that are auto-generated by Minetest from nodes. |
| 01:09 |
ShadowBot |
ShadowNinja: O.K. |
| 01:12 |
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| 01:17 |
ShadowNinja |
SoniEx2: Hot swapping? Do you mean reloading components? That can be done in Minetest, but it would be a big effort as things like chat commands need to be de-registered when the mod is unloaded. |
| 02:09 |
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| 02:09 |
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Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ |
| 02:23 |
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| 03:14 |
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| 03:14 |
stormchaser3000 |
hi |
| 03:14 |
stormchaser3000 |
i got an error with the lua main menu |
| 03:19 |
stormchaser3000 |
http://pastebin.com/RdJRU5yw |
| 03:20 |
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| 06:44 |
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| 06:48 |
RealBadAngel |
ive updated #1278 |
| 06:49 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1278 -- Map irrlicht log level to minetest. Allow write irrlicht logs to debug file. by RealBadAngel |
| 06:50 |
RealBadAngel |
now with proper mapping irrlicht log level to ours (its depending on irrlicht version) and added "quiet" command line switch to set errors only log level (LMT_ERROR) |
| 06:59 |
VanessaE |
seems stormchaser just got bit by #1297 also |
| 06:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297 -- Public serverlist failure |
| 07:02 |
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| 08:26 |
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| 08:36 |
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| 08:38 |
^Enki^ |
Hello, where I can download the latest -dev version? I've googled around but can't seem to find anything. |
| 08:38 |
^Enki^ |
*where can I |
| 09:19 |
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| 09:21 |
celeron55 |
^Enki^: pretty much everything is linked here: http://minetest.net/download |
| 09:23 |
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| 09:30 |
^Enki^ |
thank you celeron55 |
| 09:47 |
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| 11:59 |
proller |
cpu: 76.3% 7:29.35 ConnectionSend lol |
| 12:17 |
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| 16:38 |
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| 16:41 |
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| 16:44 |
sapier |
I wonder why everyone rereports same bug once someone discovered it |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing |
| 16:46 |
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| 17:17 |
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| 17:24 |
sapier |
#1241 ... improved ui element initialization speed at cost of runtime speed ... any complains about this to ShadowNinja he demanded it and as he's ScriptAPI maintainer it's his responsibility. |
| 17:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1241 -- Add formspec toolkit and refactor mainmenu to use it by sapier |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
I don't have seen any proof it's really faster, but at least it seems reasonable to be faster ... benchmarks would tell but I don't have any interest in doing so. On the other hand I have proof it's slower at runtime |
| 17:49 |
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| 17:58 |
VanessaE |
[05-12 12:45] <sapier> especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing <---- because it hasn't actually bugged out until now? :) |
| 17:58 |
VanessaE |
(if you mean that favorites glitch) |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
try 4.9 it's crashing exactly same way ;-) |
| 17:59 |
VanessaE |
must be some item within the list then |
| 18:00 |
sapier |
nope |
| 18:00 |
sapier |
it's no item selected at all |
| 18:00 |
sapier |
once a item is selected everything is fine |
| 18:01 |
VanessaE |
but, it's impossible to select an item. as soon as you hit "[ ] public sever list" --> crash. |
| 18:02 |
VanessaE |
and once it crashes, it's dead. period. |
| 18:02 |
sapier |
hmm that's new |
| 18:02 |
VanessaE |
you HAVE to edit your minetest.conf to recover. |
| 18:02 |
VanessaE |
next time read the bug report ;) |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
ahh well that's another way to trigger it |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
maybe I should've read full report and not only crash log |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
there, updated the text to make it a little more clear. |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:05 |
sapier |
but it doesn't crash for me on turning on public server list too |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:05 |
xyz |
wtf |
| 18:05 |
xyz |
why is "this" changed to "self" in license |
| 18:06 |
sapier |
lol |
| 18:06 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 18:06 |
sapier |
replace all ;-) |
| 18:06 |
xyz |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-8fcf2d56e57d0439a1cad555809e7795R4 |
| 18:06 |
VanessaE |
hah |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
one of those bug's why I initially refused to change 100 occurances of this to self |
| 18:07 |
xyz |
great comment https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR208 |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
"self program is free software", "self program is distributed" |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
hahah |
| 18:07 |
xyz |
even better https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR219 |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
minetest is trying to become sentient. |
| 18:07 |
Calinou |
a Lua programmer came by |
| 18:08 |
xyz |
sapier: do you know Lua can do elseif? |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
don't be that selfish ;-) |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
what? |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
ah alright |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
the why the fuck do you ask for comments? |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
just merge this shit |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
because obviously it's shit |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
and you won't fix it |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
so just merge it |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
I want comments for the things change not for those moved only |
| 18:10 |
xyz |
not like anybody can stop you from doing it |
| 18:10 |
xyz |
oh great |
| 18:10 |
xyz |
just figured out you actually wiped out the whole discussion, not just my comment |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
you didn't bother ShadowNinja to cleanup this as he moved it 3 days ago why do you expect me to fix it? |
| 18:11 |
xyz |
well fuck you |
| 18:11 |
proller |
time to rename minetest to sapiertest |
| 18:11 |
kaeza |
wtf |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:11 |
VanessaE |
xyz, wtf man? |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
btw if it wasn't obvious "don't be that selfish ;-)" was a joke |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
NOT related to your comment one line above but to the accidental this->self replacements |
| 18:13 |
xyz |
with that attitude |
| 18:13 |
xyz |
i don't really care |
| 18:14 |
Calinou |
description field in GUI is too small for most descriptions (Client) |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
well xyz I keep on trying to give a hand to you but the only thing you seem to do is keep on bashing. I wont give up to try to walk towards you anyway. |
| 18:15 |
* jin_xi |
would have given up a long time ago |
| 18:15 |
jin_xi |
seriously, this suck |
| 18:15 |
jin_xi |
s |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
Calinou: what description field are you talking about? in client tab? |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
sapier: and only thing you're doing is ignoring all comments |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
or deleting them |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
and then you expect people to behave differently? |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
or saying "i don't care about this anyway" |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
shit like this |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
like that <sapier> no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code |
| 18:18 |
sapier |
wait did I say anything about the self this thing going to be ignored? |
| 18:19 |
xyz |
"i coded some shit in the past but now that it's in the master i don't care anymore" |
| 18:19 |
xyz |
"so i won't fix this shit even if it's shit" |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
the only thing is I wont gonna keep on fixing style for styl issue for 4 weeks, you did review exactly the code you have issues now days ago, by that time it's been fine for you |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
sapier, the server description one |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
it's always cut out :'( |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
it simply needs more space |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
(I'm using master Git) |
| 18:20 |
xyz |
sapier: yes and by "style" you mean everything |
| 18:20 |
xyz |
like, the code is unreadable mess? well that's style issue, ignored |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
Calinou: where to get more space? for what I remember gui just isn't bigger? |
| 18:21 |
Calinou |
on the right and on the bottom |
| 18:21 |
Calinou |
there's plenty of space |
| 18:21 |
Calinou |
(write description below the whole GUI?) |
| 18:22 |
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| 18:22 |
sapier |
I've been forced to rebuild the original menu pixel identical on rewriting it in lua ;-) |
| 18:24 |
neolith2099 |
Hi folks. as I understood from kaeza emitting light from entities is currently not possible. Has anyone thought about implementing this already? if so, what needs to be considered should one decide to implement it? :) |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
thought, different people, done ... no because entities do move and light is somewhat static |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
fine now just ignore me |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
xyz what am I supposed to answer to a "everything is shit" comment? |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
sapier: i'm saying people are trying to improve your code, in different ways |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
i.e. by commenting on style issues |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
which you just ignore |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
that's not cool |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
well that's why I did even do the metatable stuff which imho is absolutely crap |
| 18:27 |
xyz |
for you it probably doesn't matter since you can understand your code, but try now to find anyone here who understands how your code works and what it does |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
or replace this by self |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
or ... or ... or |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
as i said, you think it doesn't matter |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
but in fact it does, every little change can make code more readable |
| 18:29 |
sapier |
if you did compare my initial version to the finally merged one you'd notice I DO honor comments |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
oh well i guess since nobody else seems to care it doesn't matter that much |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
sapier: except ones that you deleted, right |
| 18:30 |
sapier |
almost noone does adapt as much as I do ... maybe that's why everyone believes "just tell sapier to do different he's gonna do it" |
| 18:30 |
kaeza |
nice way to welcome a new user... |
| 18:30 |
xyz |
nobody here seems to actually care |
| 18:32 |
neolith2099 |
:) |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
i mean to find this/self issue only a quick look at the code is required |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
thus we can conclude nobody has looked at it |
| 18:32 |
sapier |
well neolith2099 guess you've gotten a good impression about how rough conversations usually get ;-) |
| 18:33 |
sapier |
xyz maybe most ppl don't read the comments? |
| 18:33 |
neolith2099 |
sapier: this is hardly rough :p I fight an uphill battle with development team members daily. |
| 18:34 |
neolith2099 |
but as long as the output is constructive.. then it's ok. |
| 18:34 |
xyz |
sapier: that's because comments are awful |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
xyz maybe someone should check for style issues in other pull requests half as pedantic everyone looks at my commits ;-) |
| 18:35 |
Calinou |
neolith2099, there were two patches that added this: neither of them made them in |
| 18:35 |
sapier |
then comments like that wouldn't be in there |
| 18:35 |
Calinou |
to not put people who have to disable them because of performance reasons on the side of the road |
| 18:36 |
neolith2099 |
Calinou: ok, what if it was implemented as a setting that can be toggled? |
| 18:36 |
xyz |
sapier: you ignore these comments anyway |
| 18:36 |
Calinou |
it was added as such |
| 18:36 |
sapier |
neolith2099: better, but it's lately become a bad habit to add a setting for everything |
| 18:36 |
Calinou |
read what I say again :) |
| 18:36 |
Calinou |
the more settings you have, the better, as long as they make sense |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
better have too many than not enough |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
to not force people to edit source code |
| 18:37 |
neolith2099 |
Calinou: I agree |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
(had to edit source to remove damage flash, change infotext position and increase third person distance) |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
Calinou: having 10000 settings everyone has to modify to match his system isn't usefull at all too |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
it may be a bit harder for Windows user |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
sapier, if you organize them well, it's fine |
| 18:38 |
Calinou |
the only settings that don't deserve being settings is the ones that really have no use, or the old/cruft ones |
| 18:38 |
neolith2099 |
Calinou: How big was the performance hit with this patch applied? |
| 18:38 |
Calinou |
eg. new style water, quicktune… |
| 18:38 |
Calinou |
neolith2099, no idea, I haven't tried |
| 18:38 |
neolith2099 |
you know where I can get it? |
| 18:38 |
sapier |
noone will ever customize 10000 settings, and instead of changing 3rd person view for you only why not find a better default and make everyone profit from it? |
| 18:38 |
VanessaE |
xyz: if I were asking for commentary on my code, I would surely be 100x more interested in how the code functions or if it could be made to function better, than what its style looks like or what is written among the comments. |
| 18:39 |
Calinou |
because we're not GNOME 3 |
| 18:39 |
neolith2099 |
sapier: I see your point, but that only becomes a problem when you actually have 10000 settings :p |
| 18:39 |
Calinou |
third person distance setting is basic! |
| 18:39 |
Calinou |
it's not something very sophisticated |
| 18:39 |
xyz |
VanessaE: it's hard to comment on code that's not possible to understand |
| 18:39 |
xyz |
VanessaE: quite naturally that people are commenting on style issues in that case |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
neolith2099: we add about 2-3 settings per month lately ... to be honest some of them are added by me too ... ok good we're gonna have some years to reach 10000 |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:40 |
Calinou |
there's quite some time until we even reach 500! relax! |
| 18:40 |
Calinou |
please avoid hyperboles like that one; they dramatize everything |
| 18:40 |
neolith2099 |
xyz: well in all honesty, I dont think it matters too much how everyone codes as long as they all agree to code the same way. |
| 18:40 |
Calinou |
Lua mods are definitely not all coded in the same way ;) |
| 18:40 |
xyz |
neolith2099: haha, sure you must be new here |
| 18:41 |
VanessaE |
xyz: I can appreciate that, but consider this: when you look at the code and its style hinders your ability to read the code, is it really hindering your capability to understand that code, or is it just bothering you because the style does not fit the rest of the code? |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
still adding a setting for everything and telling user "you can customize it" instead of finding a sane default seems wrong to me |
| 18:41 |
neolith2099 |
xyz: in essence, a one developer should look at a piece of code 6 months later and not know if the wrote it or not, simply because the style is the same. |
| 18:41 |
xyz |
neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project |
| 18:41 |
xyz |
everybody writes as they want |
| 18:42 |
VanessaE |
xyz: in other words, the door is painted with red and green stripes, but you can still turn the door knob. but those red and green stripes made you stop for a second and look at them. Did those colors hinder your ability to operate the door, or are they just irritating? |
| 18:42 |
xyz |
meaning it depends on the weather today |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
xyz you're wrong, there are coding guidelines but apparently only my code is checked against them ;-) |
| 18:42 |
xyz |
sapier: i wonder why? |
| 18:42 |
xyz |
VanessaE: thanks for your analogy but have you tried reading the code in question? |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
I know why xyz ... but I wont tell because you'll deny it anyway |
| 18:43 |
proller |
sapier, your overall code quality is WTF |
| 18:43 |
VanessaE |
xyz: I have tried reading some of it, but as I don't understand the language too well as it is, and I have always had trouble understanding other peoples' code, it would be of little benefit for me to try. |
| 18:43 |
neolith2099 |
xyz: yes, but basic code standards should be put in place and a system of checks and balances need to be put in place before solid commits are made. |
| 18:43 |
xyz |
neolith2099: i know, right, that's not me that you need to convince |
| 18:44 |
neolith2099 |
proller: WTF = Way To Freaky? |
| 18:44 |
Calinou |
<xyz> neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project |
| 18:44 |
proller |
WHAT THE FUCK |
| 18:44 |
Calinou |
for the engine, there are! |
| 18:44 |
neolith2099 |
:p |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
xyz I suggested to fix whole code style ages ago ... but everyone refused |
| 18:44 |
Calinou |
http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
xyz: be that as it may, you didn't answer either question. did the coding style truly interfere with your ability to read the code or does it just irritate you enough not to want to read it? |
| 18:44 |
Calinou |
xyz, you sound like you're in a bad mood anyway |
| 18:45 |
xyz |
VanessaE: i don't get the difference here |
| 18:45 |
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nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:45 |
neolith2099 |
Calinou: I like that link |
| 18:45 |
neolith2099 |
"Do not use "or", use "||". Code that uses "or" instead of "||" will face immediate rejection." |
| 18:46 |
neolith2099 |
so what about && ? |
| 18:46 |
jin_xi |
go fuck yourself |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
xyz: the difference being, you can see the code, and understand what you're reading, even if the style sucks. but if the style sucks enough, you're not gonna read it at all because the style itself is irritating in its own right |
| 18:46 |
neolith2099 |
lol |
| 18:46 |
jin_xi |
:) |
| 18:46 |
xyz |
VanessaE: code style is not just about indentation or naming things "this" instead of "self" |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
like not watching your favorite movie because the medium it's being shown in irritates the shit out of you (think, television with too many commercials vs. watching it in a nice high-end home theater) |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
keep the insults away, please |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
xyz: I know that. |
| 18:47 |
Calinou |
we need AdBlock for TV, VanessaE :D |
| 18:47 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: I have the ultimate adblock for TV: I have no TV :P |
| 18:47 |
neolith2099 |
My TV is a 46" monitor :) |
| 18:49 |
xyz |
VanessaE: then what's the question about? code style makes it harder to understand the code, yes that irritates me |
| 18:49 |
VanessaE |
xyz: I rejected a big patch to pipeworks a long while back for these same reasons -- because of the code style. But I'm talking about huge, long lines, everything crammed into as few lines as possible, no spaces, etc etc. the kind of stuff we all did in BASIC 30 years ago. in that case, the style both fucked up the entire code to where I couldn't even compare his changes against my original code, and made it impossible for me to read. |
| 18:50 |
xyz |
VanessaE: now you're missing the point, i just said that code style is not just "artistic" style |
| 18:50 |
sapier |
xyz is talking about the way of writing code, which is different for different coders and depends on what background different programmers have |
| 18:50 |
xyz |
exactly |
| 18:51 |
VanessaE |
xyz, he claimed that his code style in that rejected patch is to allow more code on the screen at once. purely functional in his eyes. |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
obviously he and proller have a common base while my style is fundamentally different |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
and xyz expects everyone to follow his view of world |
| 18:51 |
xyz |
sapier: i don't |
| 18:51 |
proller |
your style allows to crush every server with two packets |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
as puting and obama expect everyone to see world with their eyes |
| 18:51 |
xyz |
i expect people to write understandable code |
| 18:51 |
xyz |
i.e. put comments sometimes |
| 18:52 |
xyz |
make it easier for other people to work with |
| 18:52 |
neolith2099 |
ok.. what piece of code are you guys actually referring too? |
| 18:52 |
neolith2099 |
I'm curious :p |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
well xyz there are multiple explanations why someone doesn't understand code |
| 18:52 |
* jin_xi |
wants to see example too |
| 18:52 |
VanessaE |
ok now we're getting into semantics. you're using "code style" to refer to different concepts. |
| 18:52 |
proller |
neolith2099, all sapiers code |
| 18:52 |
jin_xi |
^ no not this |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
neolith2099: there's no special line because this is aboit personal difference between proller/xyz and me |
| 18:52 |
jin_xi |
specific |
| 18:53 |
neolith2099 |
sample? |
| 18:53 |
jin_xi |
i mean is the wtf in the what or the how or both? |
| 18:53 |
xyz |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files |
| 18:53 |
sapier |
if it was coding style there'd be a chance to settle it |
| 18:56 |
neolith2099 |
ok, got a sample of xyz's code? |
| 18:56 |
xyz |
i think shadow is the one who commens on "artistic" coding style |
| 18:56 |
neolith2099 |
so I can identify differences. :) |
| 18:57 |
neolith2099 |
and like jin_xi said, is the formatting the issue or the implementation itself? |
| 18:58 |
proller |
sapier's code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/connection.cpp |
| 18:59 |
xyz |
duh, i told multiple times; both are issues but i'm getting more mad about implementation |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
until Channel::Channel() : it's almost untouched original code proller |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:06 |
sapier |
neolith2099: I can't tell you about code from xyz and proller because they did take the easy way and don't discuss about their changes any longer |
| 19:06 |
xyz |
neolith2099: i honestly don't think i have any recent lua code |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
meaning they did fork and just push whatever thy write |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
neolith2099: but you can friend me at https://github.com/xyzz |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
i don't understand how's that related to the discussion anyway |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
sapier: we also push what other people write! |
| 19:08 |
sapier |
how's that related to honoring comments to YOUR code? |
| 19:08 |
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| 19:09 |
xyz |
sapier: i don't get why you all has suddenly decided to discuss me |
| 19:09 |
proller |
changing sapier style to proller style : https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/6d89eaa06c08667d8011619f2bf5a31281821bf8#diff-ec9c246444a86a039da70669e6740c89 |
| 19:09 |
sapier |
that's not sapier style that's write something someone else promised to replace by a generic parser ... well the promise is there for about a year now |
| 19:10 |
sapier |
because that one force added json without adding the required features |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
if I remember correct you've been involved in pushing the json addon proller |
| 19:13 |
xyz |
oh you mean that person whose pull requests were ignored for months? |
| 19:13 |
xyz |
hmm, yes, I wonder why he doesn't contribute much anymore |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
I don't actually remember who did the json things |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
I only remember I've been annoyed about having to add that crapy code and wasn't willing to spend another 2-3 days to implement the generic parser someone else promised |
| 19:16 |
xyz |
yeah i bet proller spent his precious 2 days writing this code in that commit |
| 19:16 |
xyz |
just look at it, it's huge |
| 19:17 |
sapier |
most likely not but I never claimed to know about the json code moreover I expressed to not have any interest in it and this is task of the one adding it. |
| 19:18 |
sapier |
and if proller did create a pull for this I'd have merged it quite quick .. but usually proller did create pulls containing at least 5 different unrelated things |
| 19:19 |
sapier |
and don't tell me "you can merge it" ... I can't because you made freeminer license incompatible |
| 19:20 |
sapier |
we all know why you did it |
| 19:20 |
neolith2099 |
I dont. |
| 19:20 |
sapier |
well isn't it quite obvious it's about beeing able to merge fixed from minetest while stopping us from mergeing their fixes |
| 19:21 |
neolith2099 |
Freeminer: "Unlike Minetest it aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism." |
| 19:21 |
neolith2099 |
^ WTF does that mean? |
| 19:21 |
neolith2099 |
:p |
| 19:22 |
xyz |
sapier: you can ask the author of code |
| 19:22 |
xyz |
sapier: but of course you won't, you will whine instead "waaah freeminer stealing code from us :(((((" |
| 19:22 |
xyz |
that's the second time i'm telling you that |
| 19:22 |
sapier |
you're free to grant a permission to merge back your fixes |
| 19:23 |
sapier |
as we do for our fixes |
| 19:23 |
xyz |
yes so what fixes do you need? |
| 19:23 |
sapier |
for example the json patch |
| 19:24 |
xyz |
it'd be stupid if i said "you can just merge everything" since that'd defeat the purpose of switching to gpl (these android clones, and it's not a library anyway) |
| 19:24 |
xyz |
sapier: that's proller's code, ask him |
| 19:24 |
proller |
some devs was against storing favorites to json |
| 19:24 |
sapier |
of course I'm gonna ask for each single line any single author |
| 19:24 |
xyz |
sapier: yes or don't whine |
| 19:24 |
sapier |
and I'm still against doing it but |
| 19:25 |
xyz |
that you can't merge things |
| 19:25 |
sapier |
obviously it's been merged anyway |
| 19:26 |
sapier |
xyz what are you doing here? you don't want your work to be used in android ports why do you discuss here as everything you do here can be used there? |
| 19:28 |
xyz |
kk, got it |
| 19:28 |
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| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
wtf?? |
| 19:28 |
sapier |
obviously you got it wrong, I wanted to know what you're doing here, not you running away as soon as you have to put your pants down |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:29 |
sapier |
guess he's gonna read the log ... well maybe I shoud've used ShadowBot |
| 19:39 |
kahrl |
funny how the chilly Russia-Germany relations have reached this chat room |
| 19:39 |
kahrl |
should we discuss about sanctions? or should we be hugging instead? |
| 19:39 |
sapier |
kahrl you're wrong we started this little fight way before ;-) |
| 19:39 |
kahrl |
true ;) |
| 19:39 |
VanessaE |
<types slowly> Global thermonuclear war |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:40 |
sapier |
I'd prefere to settle those differences but I haven't found a way to do by now |
| 19:40 |
sapier |
I'm open for suggestions as I'm most likely biased |
| 19:41 |
kahrl |
I don't know, sadly |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
I have nothing either except jokes :-/ |
| 19:43 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, tell them! |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
I just did. |
| 19:49 |
neolith2099 |
I found some freeminer setting "disable_wieldlight".. is this available in minetest? |
| 19:50 |
sapier |
I don't think so, and as I told due to license incompatibility we can't merge pulls done to freeminer |
| 19:51 |
sapier |
at least unless the original author explicitly grants permission |
| 19:51 |
neolith2099 |
well I just pulled the minetest src tree and grep'd it for it.. nada! |
| 19:51 |
neolith2099 |
just implement it a little differently :p |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
wieldlights have issues in that they must light up parts of the map, which is laggy |
| 19:52 |
neolith2099 |
what if it's just done on the client side? |
| 19:52 |
VanessaE |
the only way to do it right is to make all clients light up their local maps instead, which wouldn't be as much so |
| 19:52 |
neolith2099 |
then you can do thing's like make night vision googles |
| 19:52 |
jin_xi |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 here is the pullrequest to mt |
| 19:53 |
VanessaE |
(the mesh gen would still have to deal with the light, but it's MUCH faster than doing it at the server and having to send the modified mapblock to all clients) |
| 19:53 |
sapier |
neolith2099: by now lighting is done on server only |
| 19:53 |
neolith2099 |
sapier: you gotta be kidding right? |
| 19:53 |
VanessaE |
there's also the issue of whether the server should respond to the light cast by the player's torch. for example, should your torch trigger a mesecons light sensor "solar" panel? |
| 19:53 |
neolith2099 |
not means of interfacing with the clients to manipulate them? |
| 19:54 |
kahrl |
just implement hardware lighting already, then wield lights will be trivial :) |
| 19:54 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: agreed 100% but what about the above? |
| 19:54 |
sapier |
no I'm not kidding neolith2099 amount of light per node is really calculated by server |
| 19:55 |
sapier |
And I'm with kahrl, as far as I know rba is working on it but it's not yet ready to be merged |
| 19:55 |
neolith2099 |
ok and not means of adjusting what the client's see |
| 19:55 |
sapier |
that's not my opinion but rba's own estimation |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
wait, what if the server calculates the light per node, but just doesn't bother to *show* it to clients that are capable of hardware lighting? |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
that would solve everything wouldn't it? |
| 19:56 |
sapier |
neolith2099: well if you adjust it you'd have to revert it back to original after user passed it, thus adding a second data storage for each node ... at least I'd prefere to have that time spent for real hardware lighting instead of a dirty hack |
| 19:57 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: I think that's the plan |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
ok good |
| 19:57 |
neolith2099 |
:) |
| 19:57 |
neolith2099 |
yay! |
| 19:57 |
kahrl |
of course wieldlights won't be seen by the server unless there's some special handling for it |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
and for old clients, they get the modified mapblock with the new lighting data like its' done now |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: that's the only question |
| 19:58 |
VanessaE |
like I said above, should your wielded tourch be able to trigger, say, a mesecons solar panel? |
| 19:58 |
VanessaE |
torch* |
| 19:58 |
neolith2099 |
kahrl: that's fine by me :) |
| 19:58 |
neolith2099 |
well your torch gives off light.. so, I guess |
| 19:58 |
sapier |
that's a interesting question VanessaE to handle this we'll have to keep light calculation in server even after we moved to hardware lighting |
| 19:59 |
neolith2099 |
but then again.. who heard of a torch that's lasts forever :p |
| 19:59 |
sapier |
or find a different way to do |
| 19:59 |
VanessaE |
I was thinking, maybe just the few nodes around you get a static value, rather than trying to calculate shadows and light spread from the wield |
| 20:00 |
VanessaE |
that would surely be a lot less math than the existing code anyway |
| 20:00 |
VanessaE |
but the bottleneck is still sending the changed blocks to old clients |
| 20:01 |
neolith2099 |
might i suggest a setting that enables for this compatability for older clients :) |
| 20:01 |
neolith2099 |
that way, when I fire up a server I be sure start an "old school" and "new school" version |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
well neolith2099 there's still noone to implement it by now |
| 20:02 |
neolith2099 |
and the new school doesn't have the "old clients" communication overhead |
| 20:03 |
kahrl |
I'd think hardware lighting is a big enough change that we could call that 0.5.0, drop network compatibility and be done with it |
| 20:03 |
neolith2099 |
kahrl: +1 |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
I agree with we can, but do we have to? |
| 20:04 |
neolith2099 |
sooo.. whose working on it then? |
| 20:04 |
neolith2099 |
for real this time :) |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
I'd suggest adding hw lighting in some version before 0.5 get it stable and then switch once it's polished |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:04 |
sapier |
and on this switch we remove old lighting |
| 20:05 |
kahrl |
sapier: I guess that depends on what RBA wants to do |
| 20:06 |
kahrl |
if he makes it compatible then that's good, if not then not too tragic |
| 20:06 |
neolith2099 |
kahrl: will this also allow for entity bound lighting? |
| 20:07 |
neolith2099 |
not just wield lighting |
| 20:07 |
kahrl |
neolith2099: I think so |
| 20:07 |
neolith2099 |
awesome! |
| 20:07 |
kahrl |
maybe not immediately, but it will be easy to add |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
I don't think it's gonna enable it without additional work too |
| 20:08 |
neolith2099 |
how long has RBA been working on it? |
| 20:08 |
sapier |
quite some time it's not a small change |
| 20:09 |
sapier |
I'd not be surprised if we'd not get the first version until christmas |
| 20:15 |
neolith2099 |
sapier: either way, I'm glad it's on the roadmap :) |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
i sure hope things are going right because i don't want to read that wall of text |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
basically same as usual, xyz doing global critics to all of my code, me trying to find out what he really wants |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
oh well and discussion about wield light |
| 21:03 |
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| 21:10 |
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| 21:10 |
neolith2099 |
not just wield light, but lighting support for entities too :) |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
true I just wanted to mention the source topics |
| 21:11 |
neolith2099 |
I look forward to what RBA produces :) |
| 21:15 |
neolith2099 |
would also be cool if nodes could be "overlay'd" with nodes |
| 21:16 |
neolith2099 |
then animated with the properties of that nodes.. i.e. algae, lilypads, etc. animating with the water waves. |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
neolith2099: for what I know you can do this |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
well somehow |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
you'd have to define a special water node having upper texture beeing the lilypads |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
maybe it'd even work with current variant if they'd be in correct group |
| 21:18 |
neolith2099 |
well right now you can define a node with an additional blended texture |
| 21:19 |
neolith2099 |
like "sandy.png^overlay_green.png" in lua |
| 21:20 |
neolith2099 |
if there was a way to adjust this for a particular water node interactively.. that just might work :p |
| 21:21 |
neolith2099 |
swaping a regualt water source node with a water source node with lilypad, for example |
| 21:21 |
neolith2099 |
but then the water needs to be transparent and the lilypad not. |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
I'd expect it to work |
| 21:22 |
neolith2099 |
and then there is the question of digging the lily pad water node. |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
but I haven't tried yet |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
what question? |
| 21:23 |
neolith2099 |
well it would be funny to beable to dig a water node without a bucket |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
did you try it by now? ;) |
| 21:24 |
neolith2099 |
so I guess you could mark it as diggable and then once it's dug.. give the player the lilypad and then replace it with the water node |
| 21:24 |
neolith2099 |
i'm just thinking out loud :p |
| 21:24 |
neolith2099 |
I'll put a POC together tomorrow |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
that'd been my first idea too but it doesn't have to be the best way to do it. If you're interested in doing things like that I suggest trying ;-) |
| 21:25 |
neolith2099 |
well.. I've seen a lily pad algae mod out there... think it's VanessaE's |
| 21:25 |
neolith2099 |
part of plant_lib or something |
| 21:27 |
neolith2099 |
at any rate, I'll tinker with it tomorrow... plenty to do while waiting for hardware lighting support :) |
| 21:28 |
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| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
neolith2099: Plantlife modpack, "flowers_plus" I think I called it. |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
*checks* yep. |
| 21:35 |
neolith2099 |
so what's the reason you did it the way you did and not how I am suggesting? *maybe you had a special reason* |
| 21:35 |
sapier |
I guess it's because waving shaders didn't exist by the time the mod was created |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
those need...something |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
I'm open to suggestions :P |
| 21:38 |
neolith2099 |
I'll put my poc together first to see if this is eve reasonable. |
| 21:38 |
VanessaE |
maybe a custom shader that can be applied to those objects? |
| 21:38 |
neolith2099 |
I wonder about the water transparency settings if I go the node swaping route |
| 21:39 |
neolith2099 |
last thing I want is a transparent lilypad :p |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
(well, to be applied to an arbitrary "flat object" anyway) |
| 21:40 |
neolith2099 |
oh and one more thing... what about animating things like chests opening, etc? |
| 21:40 |
neolith2099 |
I assume that would require making the chest into a model and animating it accordingly when activated. |
| 21:41 |
VanessaE |
probably so |
| 21:41 |
VanessaE |
should be doable |
| 21:41 |
neolith2099 |
hhhmmmm..... another thing I'll poc later on. |
| 21:41 |
neolith2099 |
does something like that add significant performance hit? |
| 21:42 |
neolith2099 |
I suppose it wouldn't have more bog-down than a mob. |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
I wouldn't expect a performance hit, but lag would be a problem |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
this is something that needs to be done client-side |
| 21:43 |
neolith2099 |
and it's not like the server needs to do more work.. *correct me if im wrong * |
| 21:43 |
neolith2099 |
that's how I would do it. |
| 21:43 |
neolith2099 |
it's not like you'd want everyone to see your chest is open |
| 21:44 |
neolith2099 |
then I would have to make it that while it's open.. someone else could steal your stuff too :p |
| 21:44 |
neolith2099 |
which would add a whole new value to locked doors :p |
| 21:45 |
neolith2099 |
anyway... lily pads first... then i'll doodle with animated chests |
| 21:46 |
neolith2099 |
I'm not much of a blender user.. I use MAX.. what plugin is best suited to generating the *.x file? |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
don't use .x |
| 21:46 |
neolith2099 |
I use 3ds 2014 |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
I suggest creating a b3d file |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
use .b3d |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
ninja'd :) |
| 21:47 |
sapier |
it's a binary format thus beeing way more small then .x (especially if you use animations) |
| 21:47 |
sapier |
and irrlicht support for it is as good as .x |
| 21:47 |
neolith2099 |
gotcha. thnx |
| 21:49 |
neolith2099 |
oh.. another thing... lol |
| 21:49 |
neolith2099 |
how would that work with texture packs? |
| 21:49 |
neolith2099 |
sry.. it's nighttime here and my mind goes crazy with ideas at night. |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
I suggest doing it step by step ;-) |
| 21:50 |
neolith2099 |
for sure... ok.. calling it a night |
| 21:51 |
neolith2099 |
adios, my new amigos! |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:56 |
VanessaE |
*reaches for the keyboard to respond to the texture packs question* |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
*gets shut down by neolith having already signed off* |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
damn it. |
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