| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:53 |
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| 01:29 |
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| 02:21 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: Typo in minetestmapper description: Generates aN overview... (I can't edit it) |
| 04:46 |
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| 08:57 |
RealBadAngel |
hi |
| 08:58 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, i am aware of the water lighting problem, i will pull fix for it in a day or two |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
strange thing it was (and is) workin correctly here |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
and i wasnt noticed on such problems before, while many were testing that pull |
| 09:01 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, online? |
| 09:49 |
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| 10:03 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1044 why closed? |
| 10:07 |
celeron55 |
hard to know because it doesn't show who closed it |
| 10:10 |
proller |
PilzAdam closed this 4 months ago |
| 10:11 |
proller |
гззук |
| 10:11 |
proller |
upper |
| 10:11 |
celeron55 |
oh it's in the middle of it |
| 10:12 |
celeron55 |
i think that could be reopened |
| 10:55 |
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| 10:59 |
smoke_fumus |
guys |
| 10:59 |
smoke_fumus |
question |
| 11:00 |
smoke_fumus |
what's most efficient way to push changes which are shared between multiple chunks? |
| 11:27 |
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| 11:58 |
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| 12:06 |
celeron55 |
smoke_fumus: from where? |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:38 |
smoke_fumus |
celeron55: generic execution in code, not related to minetest. i am pushing change in 2d chunk divided by marching cubes algorythm. on wipe it should set x,y; x+1,y; x,y+1; x+1,y+1 to zero. How to determine which chunk was target x,y in? |
| 12:38 |
smoke_fumus |
i just need a formula x.x |
| 12:39 |
smoke_fumus |
*marching squares |
| 12:40 |
celeron55 |
uh, you basically divide the coordinates by the chunk size, and make sure that it behaves sanely when it crosses zero |
| 12:41 |
celeron55 |
like this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/util/numeric.h#L48 |
| 12:42 |
celeron55 |
then you have the chunk's position and probably have some way to get the chunk based on that |
| 12:42 |
smoke_fumus |
hmhmhmhmhm |
| 12:42 |
celeron55 |
if not, then you're doing something else than i think you are |
| 12:46 |
smoke_fumus |
yes you are right. i found that it sorta works - just not pushing textre on the result |
| 12:46 |
smoke_fumus |
celeron55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfxsLD4Xzc0&feature=youtu.be |
| 12:46 |
smoke_fumus |
here's where i am at currently |
| 12:46 |
smoke_fumus |
or rather was 2 hours ago |
| 12:53 |
smoke_fumus |
marching squares is rather simple algorythm which in layments terms - takes "let's split a round-edged square on 9 slices" idea and makes it into "4 rather than 9") |
| 12:54 |
smoke_fumus |
although, i think after all this idiocity i might just return to 9 splices |
| 13:03 |
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| 15:23 |
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| 15:49 |
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| 15:54 |
sapier |
~ iqualfragile what reason do you have to believe this might be less performant then the original one? shift operations are way more efficient on any architecture I know then multiplications are. I'm not even sure compiler can really optimize this as bool true castet to (int) may not even be 1 but could be 0xFFFFFFFF on some compilers too. And yes I know "standard" defines true to be one ... but especially for this one some (smart) comp |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:58 |
sapier |
hmm shadowbot is offline? |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
no |
| 15:58 |
VanessaE |
you forgot the ~tell part. |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
argh |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
~ tell iqualfragile please read log ;-) |
| 15:58 |
ShadowBot |
sapier: O.K. |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
and your message got cut off. |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
really? |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
"[...] but especially for this one some (smart) compi--" |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
I didn't even know about a size limit on irc |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
... compilers ignore it for optimization reasons. |
| 16:00 |
sapier |
actually those compilers aren't really smart but a pain in the ass ... but that doesn't change anything |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
luizrpgluiz |
hi |
| 16:09 |
luizrpgluiz |
hi |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:16 |
proller |
sapier, why you make lot of changes about nothing and 0 changes about game? you newer start game? |
| 16:16 |
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| 16:17 |
sapier |
because someone has to do the infrastructure work not giving any credits but providing the base for all of your nice and shiny "I'm so cool I added feature X" |
| 16:17 |
sapier |
"your" not beeing proller but generally spoken |
| 16:19 |
proller |
now game have lot of problems , more important than main menu and slow * operayion |
| 16:19 |
sapier |
what problems are you talking about? |
| 16:21 |
proller |
try to join in game, you can find 10+ in 5 min |
| 16:21 |
proller |
but you newer join.. |
| 16:21 |
sapier |
write an issue and I may look at it but I'm not the only developer here so why do you expect ME to fix anything? |
| 16:22 |
proller |
unstable YOUR connection with lot of added bugs ? |
| 16:22 |
sapier |
that's your claim without any proof |
| 16:23 |
sapier |
almost all of those (not obvious) bugs I've been accused to be responsible for haven't been mine but just got more obvious due to other things not beeing broken any longer |
| 16:25 |
sapier |
Don't get me wrong proller if you know about bugs that need to be fixed tell me. |
| 16:25 |
* VanessaE |
looks at the master server list and notes that her up-to-date-and-patched-with-sapier's-code "almost vanilla" server is inexplicably at the top again |
| 16:26 |
proller |
lot of "unknown" players in first report after join |
| 16:26 |
VanessaE |
whatever the problems are, proller, they aren't keeping people from *playing* |
| 16:26 |
proller |
lot of draw hud errors |
| 16:26 |
|
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| 16:27 |
proller |
sapier, you can find most of bugs if you try join to any server |
| 16:27 |
sapier |
well proller none of my hud changes are merged by now so this is not my fault for sure ;-) |
| 16:27 |
proller |
its init sequence problem |
| 16:27 |
proller |
appear after your changes |
| 16:28 |
sapier |
of course, joining with outdated client and broken media on server is a problem |
| 16:28 |
sapier |
fix your broken media and the problem will occur only once |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
sapier: 1143 needs to go in by now I think. |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
it's been long enough hasn't it? |
| 16:28 |
proller |
its happen on singleplayer |
| 16:29 |
sapier |
as I said broken media |
| 16:30 |
proller |
broken media in singleplayer ? |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
you're right VanessaE that would fix the issue ... but for what I remember there have been objections |
| 16:30 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I thought the delay was only because you were worried about the whole "do we just break it all for 0.4.10" issue? |
| 16:31 |
sapier |
nope problem is 1143 would fix it but is opposit of poll result |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 16:31 |
sapier |
according to pull result we should break compatibility while 1143 has compatibility support |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
maybe just ignore the poll then. |
| 16:32 |
sapier |
proller could you try 1143? |
| 16:33 |
proller |
nobody need in _jitter and _rtt info in lua, except you |
| 16:34 |
sapier |
Proller jitter and rtt are preparations for benchmarking later protocol replacements |
| 16:34 |
proller |
in lua ??? |
| 16:34 |
sapier |
of course or do you wanna write a c++ plugin interface to create a benchmark? |
| 16:34 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/250 |
| 16:35 |
sfan5 |
^ comments please |
| 16:35 |
sapier |
I want to do real benchmarks not some theoretical maximum values |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: +1 |
| 16:36 |
sapier |
I like the idea ... but not the texture ... but I'm not sure if my taste is suitable for deciding things like that ... I guess not :-) |
| 16:36 |
proller |
but minetest_game is frozen and PilzAdam regect any change to it ? |
| 16:37 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/250 opinion? |
| 16:37 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, basically what proller said |
| 16:39 |
PilzAdam |
someone could release a desert mod that adds all kind of cool stuff to deserts |
| 16:39 |
proller |
good progress >:) |
| 16:39 |
VanessaE |
such a mod exists. |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3761 |
| 16:40 |
sapier |
well I'm not sure if this really is something for a mod, it's basicaly a symmetry thing, :-) |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: I suggest you to read https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=136403#p136403 |
| 16:41 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, I already read that |
| 16:41 |
sfan5 |
the last sentence too? |
| 16:42 |
proller |
good pull for freeminer default game ;_ |
| 16:44 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, the goal is to get alternative games |
| 16:44 |
VanessaE |
bullshit |
| 16:45 |
PilzAdam |
merging the desert cobble pull request would conflict / break the mod VanessaE linked |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
those alternative games have had many months now to be proposes and added. |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
where are tey? |
| 16:45 |
sfan5 |
We'll get nowhere with Minetest if you keep hindering innovation like this |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
they* |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
~ tell iqualfragile hmmm well looking at assembler code at least gcc is capable of optimizing so new and old version look quite similar ... but ... if I didn't remove the temporary variable the new version would become faster then the old one ... guess I need to do another fix. |
| 16:45 |
ShadowBot |
sapier: O.K. |
| 16:48 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, what exactly is wrong with installing mods? |
| 16:48 |
sapier |
is mmdb still broken? |
| 16:48 |
sapier |
if yes ... that's wrong ;-) |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
back to #1143 is making versions available to debug builds only enough to avoid modders from using those information in regular mods or not? |
| 16:49 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1143 -- Protocol version <= 22 compatibility mode + clean new client init by sapier |
| 16:51 |
sapier |
can everyone please check 1143? Proller is right, the network fixes need to be completed and that one IS the missing part. It's crazy to let it wait for some minor issues that could be easyly fixed. |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
especially as we've got a working android port now we can point tablet users to |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: how long to you want to keep minetest_game the same? |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
people like it better when they have new content by default than having to install mods |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
also desert cobble is more for symmetry with cobble |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
what about merging minetest_game to minimal? |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
not an entirely new block |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
sapier: no, why? |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:55 |
sapier |
this way minimal could be base (which is already defacto standard) and game could switch to a more dynamic development state |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
it's just an idea |
| 16:55 |
VanessaE |
well I need not check 1143, I know it works :P |
| 16:56 |
VanessaE |
sapier: no, keep minimal the way it is |
| 16:56 |
VanessaE |
that really *should* remain frozen |
| 16:56 |
VanessaE |
but minetest_game should be allowed to grow |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
ok another idea creating minetest_evolution ? :-) |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
if it breaks a seldom-used mod here or there, oh well -- just so long as doing so is in the spirit of incorporating THAT mod's functionality. |
| 16:57 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, we had this discussion about minetest_game several times now, please read the logs |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
link? |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
well PilzAdam I understand you but imho it can't stay frozen forever |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
at some point in time it has to be updated |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSp68ySdy1E |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
oh, old |
| 16:59 |
sfan5 |
lol |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
Googling "minetest worst mod" comes up with technic for me. |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
and I agree |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
:P |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
Nah |
| 17:00 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: um, offtopic..... |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P-o5wnwBgU |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: did you notice MinetestBot is not here? |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 17:03 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: videos that begin with a person critcizing how the clouds reset back one in a while like that is the most bad bug ever are not worth to be watched |
| 17:03 |
sfan5 |
</offtopic> |
| 17:03 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: link? |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: minetest_game needs to grow and develop. Enough of this freeze bullshit. people aren't gonna balk at new stuff being added, they're only gonna complain if existing stuff is changed too much. |
| 17:09 |
rubenwardy |
+1 |
| 17:09 |
sfan5 |
+1 |
| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
But only if it is logical |
| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
oh damn |
| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
I meant to post those videos in #minetest |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
Logical not meaning realistic, but meaning not adding stuff like pokemon. |
| 17:11 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 17:12 |
proller |
and remove nyancat to mod |
| 17:12 |
sfan5 |
no not the nyan cat! |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
fuck no! |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
blasphemer! |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
heretic! |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
Don't remove from game |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 17:12 |
proller |
why nyan better than pokemon > |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
why mese, then? |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
But moving to another mod is fine, in the game |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
why wooden picks? |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
because we already have them |
| 17:13 |
proller |
wooden pick - okay |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
proller, heritage |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
keep our cats! |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
rule #1 of a game: don't remove content. ever. unless there is a really good G*d damn reason for doing so. |
| 17:14 |
VanessaE |
the existence of an illogical item in a game does not give license to add more illogical elements, but it also doesn't give license to remove that element either. |
| 17:15 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam does not seem to be there |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
(on the other hand, I've advocated for removal of wooden picks because they're just stupid :) ) |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
he's ignoring us now, sfan5 |
| 17:16 |
proller |
how to dig first stone ? |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
proller: I had proposed a while back to have a replacement tool that can be crafted from sticks and loose stones lying on the ground, similar to what's done in Realtest. |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
dirt could very rarely drop a loose stone to be used to make said tool, as well |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
that way it works on old maps |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
How about dirt pick axes? |
| 17:18 |
proller |
shit pick |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
a dirt pick? er.. no |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
I troll |
| 17:18 |
proller |
eat apple, produce shit, make pick |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
(apropos: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4129 ) |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: "There's a mod for that" |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
Since everyone is using Windows 8 now, shall we rename mods to 'Apps'? |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
no. |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
but getting back to the point... |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
if you want to add something to the damn game, just add it. |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
I see no legit reason to block. |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
How about adding a nodebox for bones? |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
purpose of same? |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
The bone texture is currently ugly :P |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
(IMO) |
| 17:22 |
proller |
+1 |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
agreed, but how would a nodebox change this? you're thinking of doing this from the standpoint of a modeled pile of bones then? |
| 17:22 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
mmm |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
well that would certainly look nicer |
| 17:23 |
VanessaE |
wouldn't add a great deal of load to the rendering engine either, since bones are so infrequently found in the world anyway |
| 17:23 |
VanessaE |
but I can't see that going over too well because it would need a metric assload of very small nodeboxes to look good. |
| 17:23 |
VanessaE |
such a thing really cries out for a proper 3d model |
| 17:29 |
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| 17:38 |
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| 17:38 |
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| 17:50 |
sapier |
and some crazy one would create a bone pile from hundreds of bone nodes and then loudly complain about lag :-) |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE |
of course. |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
why don't we have smooth lightning for nodeboxes yet? |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
because smooth lightning is already a performance hog ... ok ok guess most people aren't aware of this |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
more correct reason is most likely because of manual light calculation for nodeboxes is a quite complex task |
| 18:04 |
sapier |
I'd not be surprised if this would make minetest unplayable on quite a lot of machines |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
sapier: actually smooth lighting doesn't seem to affect my machine versus "simple" lighting |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
did you try on arm cpu too? ;-) |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
who cares about arm :P |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
any android user |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
(really though, for such machines, there's the 'simple' lighting mode) |
| 18:06 |
VanessaE |
that does not, however, explain why things like *signs* also have bad lighting..... |
| 18:06 |
sapier |
well if someone wants to implement the quite complex task of manually calculating model lighting we'll see how much of performance this will cost |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
signs are a bad example as they're not much more then a dissorted node ... others like fences are way more complex ... and even fences are simple nodeboxes |
| 18:08 |
VanessaE |
well I guess RBA plans on doing hardware-assisted smooth lighting some time soon |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
I'm looking forward to it |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
as I said if someone implements smooth lighting for nodeboxes I'd be quite positive about merging (as long as it's configurable) ... but for what I know light calculation this is not a easy task |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
but true I don't know light calculation very well |
| 18:10 |
Jordach |
anyone noticed an inability to generate stone in MGV7 using custom nodes (it appears to generate unknown nodes) |
| 18:11 |
Jordach |
wait |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
guess that's something to fix prior v7 can be made default |
| 18:12 |
Jordach |
sapier, apparently i forgot to enclose texture.png within curly brackets |
| 18:13 |
Jordach |
which is interesting as Minetest only takes a table format for images, yet "texture.png", doesn't raise an error |
| 18:14 |
Jordach |
http://paste.ubuntu.com/7218156/ |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
I remember looking for this error for hours too :-) |
| 18:16 |
VanessaE |
seems to me that the engine should be throwing in a proper "dummy" texture in that case. |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
isn't unknown our dummy texture? |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
no, a dummy texture is usually a solid color |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
some random, often randomly-flashing color |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
ok |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:55 |
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| 19:33 |
sapier |
as noone wants to comment about #1143 I'm gonna delay merge till tomorrow, if still noone has valid reasons not to merge it I'm gonna merge it |
| 19:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1143 -- Protocol version <= 22 compatibility mode + clean new client init by sapier |
| 19:34 |
sapier |
ok noone except vanessae |
| 19:34 |
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* VanessaE |
hides. |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:11 |
Jordach |
anyone noticed a bug where fill_ratio values less than 0.0155 will not display the decoration |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:16 |
sapier |
0.01? |
| 20:16 |
Jordach |
sapier, same there too |
| 20:16 |
sapier |
that's most likely a pure rounding effect |
| 20:17 |
Jordach |
it looks *like* sidelen has something to do with it, but not really sure |
| 20:17 |
sapier |
how many pixels are left for 0.015? ;-) |
| 20:17 |
Jordach |
0.016 still is too many :PO |
| 20:18 |
sapier |
is this a scaling value ? maybe for a 16 pixel texture? ;-) |
| 20:18 |
Jordach |
sapier, decorations using mgv7 |
| 20:19 |
sapier |
ok then maybe nodes per block? |
| 20:19 |
Jordach |
sapier, https://cdn.mediacru.sh/pMEe6zgoW1DJ.png |
| 20:19 |
Jordach |
1.0 when sidelen is 4 |
| 20:20 |
sapier |
ok |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
well doesn't change the fact small floats may be rounded in this case ... or a classical float int calculation missmatch bug |
| 20:23 |
Jordach |
up or down, that is the question |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
open up debugger and check the calculated values ;-) |
| 20:34 |
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| 21:27 |
iqualfragile |
!tell sapier I do not think the previous version would be faster, i just think it might be wasted effort and could lead to less readability |
| 21:27 |
ShadowBot |
iqualfragile: O.K. |
| 21:28 |
iqualfragile |
sapier: oh, you are still here |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
usually abusing multiplications for shift operations is not considered "more readable" ;-) |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
most important issue is a silly compiler could really do a multiplication there which is quite slow compared to a shift |
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| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
people seem to assume that something that's inferior and slower is more readable |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
how on earth are math tricks more readable than bit operations, which is what's ACTUALLY intended |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
no. you're wrong. stop it. all the people who think that "optimize" means "less readable" are plain wrong, there's no other way to put it. you all need to reexamine your prejudices. |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
hmmmm whom are you talking to right now? :-) |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: maybe leftovers from the old OLD days when you really DID have to hand-optimize to the point that the code was horribly unreadable? |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
well on performance critical things looking at assembler code is still necessary ;-) |
| 21:57 |
iqualfragile |
hmmmm: you are right, for this example it does not really matter |
| 21:58 |
iqualfragile |
or, well, its actually easier understandable this way, but it should not be done on any occasion |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
it does ... in this location there ain't a number calculated but a bitmap created where each bit is independent and not a number ;-) |
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paramat |
hi, i know minetest game is frozen, but this is an exception, the wieldhand should match the character skin =) https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/249 |
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