Time |
Nick |
Message |
00:16 |
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00:23 |
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00:49 |
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01:36 |
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01:38 |
spillz |
celeron55: trying out recipe here https://code.launchpad.net/~damien-moore/+recipe/minetest-daily |
01:39 |
spillz |
I tried joining minetestdevs on launchpad |
01:39 |
spillz |
Once my recipe works I can try changing yours |
01:41 |
spillz |
Very small changes to packaging code: https://code.launchpad.net/~damien-moore/+junk/mt-packaging |
01:41 |
PilzAdam |
spillz, you could also add the optional build dependencies, like leveldb and freetype |
01:41 |
PilzAdam |
if you like |
01:41 |
spillz |
Will do |
01:47 |
spillz |
drawback of using minetest for package name instead of minetestc55 is the need to ensure version number is higher than the one in official repo. |
01:48 |
iqualfragile |
luajit! |
01:54 |
spillz |
What do others think about that? |
02:00 |
spillz |
luajit, i mean? |
02:01 |
spillz |
Also not much point including leveldb in build deps unless it's enabled |
02:05 |
PilzAdam |
of course it should be enabled too |
02:39 |
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04:10 |
ShadowNinja |
~tell sapier I found a number of issues with your latest APK and listed them here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7144510/ |
04:10 |
ShadowBot |
ShadowNinja: O.K. |
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14:44 |
xyz |
celeron55: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8863 |
14:45 |
xyz |
make sure to glue your hand to the desk or something or you'll probably facepalm yourself to death |
14:53 |
xyz |
is it okay if I ban some people from this thread for DoS'ing servers? pretty sure it's illegal |
14:53 |
xyz |
according to russian laws |
14:54 |
xyz |
(yes there are laws in russia) |
15:00 |
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15:07 |
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15:12 |
celeron55 |
oh god |
15:14 |
celeron55 |
i guess they could learn something from a ban so feel free to (for a limited time though, and making sure that they know why they were banned) |
15:15 |
celeron55 |
selling the thing on a $15 CD is ridiculous though 8D |
15:26 |
celeron55 |
am i allowed to change the download page of minetest.net to require a $5 payment before downloading the windows build, just for a few days to test what happens? i'm probably too lazy to do that, but if i do, i will publish all data from the experiment |
15:32 |
us`0gb |
As long as the source is available, I don't see any problem with that experiment. Although, people will just come to the forum and get the unofficial builds. |
15:33 |
us`0gb |
Bluh, I have to go to work. I'll see you people later. |
15:39 |
celeron55 |
it would be an experiment to see how many people see it as a product worth $5 |
15:40 |
celeron55 |
of course the regulars and the open source people would just get it elsewhere |
15:42 |
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15:44 |
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15:45 |
spillz |
celeron55: that would be an interesting experiment and i would like to see the data. another approach would be to insert a payment page before the download links that defaults to a payment option with a nicely thought out message explaining how paying will help development and a payment slider defaulted to $5, with a no thanks option. Always surprising the effect that moral suasion can have. |
15:46 |
spillz |
Would feel more honest that way too |
15:47 |
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15:47 |
spillz |
also, have you thought about making the android (and future ios) port paid, with um an actual complete default game? |
15:48 |
celeron55 |
the issue still is though that we have absolutely zero experience in distributing money around (and no legal status as a community of any kind) |
15:49 |
spillz |
yes, and as soon as money gets involved things inevitably get unpleasant |
15:49 |
celeron55 |
i could start taking such payments, but there needs to be a plan of what to do if they grow large |
15:50 |
spillz |
Probably not a huge risk :) |
15:51 |
spillz |
Probably more likely with good mobile ports |
15:51 |
celeron55 |
well, if the money isn't going anywhere, i'm going to end up with hundreds of dollars fairly quick that don't belong to me |
15:53 |
celeron55 |
immediately after writing the initial question i also thought that i could just try to spend a few days to make something based on minetest and then try if it's possible to sell that; then it wouldn't be unfair for me to take all the money and everyone would be fairly happy |
15:54 |
PenguinDad |
you should add an option to buy it with doges IMHO |
15:56 |
spillz |
celeron55: fairly happy unless you rake it in :] |
16:02 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: divide per commits made to minetest/minetest and minetest/minetest_game |
16:02 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam would get the most |
16:02 |
sfan5 |
:P |
16:02 |
spillz |
the litany of mods seems like there is scope for minetest to be used as an engine to develop a lot of interesting games. I would love to try something this myself using a time delayed open source license, but (a) too lazy, (b) have no artistic skill, (c) don't have time and (d) didn't author the engine or any other code so would be hated into eternity :) |
16:04 |
spillz |
and (e) don't want or need the money, just like the idea of the experiment |
16:04 |
celeron55 |
no you wouldn't, as long as you actually have new ideas and follow licenses right from the start; the real problem with doing that is having to sit down and think and code for a long time instead of talking random shit on IRC 8) |
16:05 |
* sfan5 |
just had idea |
16:05 |
sfan5 |
how about we start to take bitcoin donation and use them to host minetest servers |
16:06 |
sfan5 |
we don't need to rely on bitcoin exchanges that way |
16:06 |
PenguinDad |
only bitcoin? |
16:06 |
sfan5 |
we get bitcoins and pay using bitcoins for something |
16:06 |
sfan5 |
PenguinDad: dogecoin and litecoin are pretty much useless for getting stuff on the internet |
16:07 |
celeron55 |
well, we could even just have a donation address that directly gives the money to the VPS host :P |
16:08 |
sfan5 |
what if we host multiple VPSs or want to use money for other things; or when the vps host steals any extra money? |
16:08 |
sfan5 |
( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Dedicated.2FVirtual_Server_Hosting list here) |
16:10 |
celeron55 |
i use moln.is for certain purposes, it accepts bitcoin but isn't on that list |
16:11 |
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16:11 |
sfan5 |
dat moving clouds, so cute </offtopic> |
16:11 |
celeron55 |
(and actually that's just re-branded portlane.com) |
16:13 |
celeron55 |
(which is also gridlane.com) |
16:14 |
sfan5 |
soo... how about a test run with accepting bitcoin donations? |
16:14 |
celeron55 |
who takes care of it? |
16:15 |
sfan5 |
dunno |
16:15 |
sfan5 |
creating a bitcoin wallet is easy |
16:15 |
sfan5 |
pretty much everyone could do that |
16:17 |
sfan5 |
if nobody else wants to do it, I would be ok with doing it |
16:18 |
celeron55 |
i don't really use bitcoin, altough i have a small amount in a wallet on a computer that i don't generally use 8) |
16:18 |
sfan5 |
I don't really used it either |
16:18 |
sfan5 |
but I have about $3 worth of BC I got by mining (last year when it was still profitable) |
16:22 |
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16:26 |
xyz |
sfan5: let me highlight the ultimate problem |
16:26 |
xyz |
"we get bitcoins" |
16:26 |
xyz |
sorry buy your idea won't work |
16:31 |
celeron55 |
that probably mostly depends on whether the people that see it have bitcoins to begin with |
16:33 |
sfan5 |
xyz: This is why we should do a test run to see whether we actually get any |
16:33 |
xyz |
you won't |
16:34 |
celeron55 |
if someone really wants to host some kind of community-paid servers like that, you could just use paypal and dollars because then there is a larger audience that actually can pay |
16:35 |
xyz |
that too, but people won't pay |
16:35 |
sfan5 |
xyz: you cannot be sure before trying |
16:35 |
xyz |
sfan5: those guys have tried |
16:35 |
xyz |
sfan5: those chinese ones and then those globeminner ones |
16:35 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
16:35 |
sfan5 |
and some people actually did pay |
16:35 |
xyz |
they got "waaah waaah payiiin' for a freee gamee???" |
16:36 |
xyz |
you sure? |
16:36 |
sfan5 |
but the rate of people paying will be higher if they see something finished that works good |
16:36 |
sfan5 |
s/paying/donating/ |
16:36 |
sfan5 |
s/finished// |
16:36 |
xyz |
yeah sure |
16:37 |
xyz |
good luck with that |
16:37 |
sfan5 |
you can always try |
16:37 |
celeron55 |
i think people should focus on creating something new instead of monetizing existing things |
16:37 |
xyz |
of course |
16:37 |
xyz |
if you don't value your time you can |
16:37 |
celeron55 |
then if someone creates something new, then asking for money can become an option |
16:41 |
xyz |
kids are your target audience; they don't have money |
16:41 |
xyz |
well maybe not target |
16:43 |
proller |
but 99% of players |
16:43 |
sfan5 |
[citation needed] |
16:43 |
xyz |
see android app reviews |
16:43 |
xyz |
see forums |
16:45 |
celeron55 |
it's obvious that there are way more kids than with practically any other project |
16:45 |
xyz |
yep |
16:45 |
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16:45 |
xyz |
it's because of the genre |
16:46 |
celeron55 |
something like openttd is in the same range |
16:46 |
RealBadAngel |
i wonder about one thing, is this guy allowed to claim copyrights for it? |
16:47 |
celeron55 |
there are not many projects like this |
16:47 |
RealBadAngel |
on the CD image theres copyright notice |
16:47 |
xyz |
RealBadAngel: nobody is a lawyer here |
16:47 |
proller |
openttd for 30+ years players |
16:48 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: it doesn't matter in practice because the copyright could refer to anything, even only the cover art |
16:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i see |
16:48 |
xyz |
yeah, I'm not sure about openttd too, isn't it a hardcore thing with lots of micro-management? |
16:48 |
celeron55 |
it probably has less kids for sure |
16:49 |
celeron55 |
but, like, it's the closest that things get to minetest |
16:49 |
celeron55 |
it also has a similarly sized playerbase |
16:50 |
xyz |
sfan5: if you want monies you can try making minetestserver-as-a-service I think |
16:50 |
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16:50 |
sfan5 |
xyz: I am not out for monies |
16:50 |
xyz |
and oversell and charge 0.99$ per month |
16:50 |
celeron55 |
even if you're only after "something that is self-sustainable", that's a relatively good idea |
16:51 |
celeron55 |
it's not really interesting though |
16:53 |
iqualfragile_ |
there is tuxcart, if you want to maximize the amount of kids playing it |
16:56 |
iqualfragile_ |
what do you think about adding some kind of archivement system to minetest_game? It would have multiple positive effects: 1. people get motivated to play 2. if done right it can serve as some kind of tutorial |
16:56 |
iqualfragile_ |
additionally some of the fanart could be put into a gallery and then be unlocked by archiving archivements |
16:58 |
sfan5 |
>additionally some of the fanart could be put into a gallery and then be unlocked by archiving archivements |
16:58 |
sfan5 |
no, just no |
16:58 |
domtron |
OpenTTD is awesome, however it suffers, like many FOSS games, from lack of content. (I'm < 30 yrs old ;) ) |
16:59 |
domtron |
there are several mods that implement achievements. |
17:00 |
celeron55 |
achievements are probably the dumbest game idea ever |
17:00 |
iqualfragile_ |
sfan5: why? |
17:01 |
celeron55 |
it's like "look, this game sucks but you can force yourself to play it by trying to unlock these short sentences" |
17:01 |
sfan5 |
I don't like it when games try to attract people to doing things by unlocking fanart |
17:01 |
sfan5 |
I think that is stupid |
17:02 |
iqualfragile_ |
ok, understandable possition |
17:03 |
iqualfragile_ |
additonally it would be a bit unclean to implement |
17:03 |
domtron |
personally I don't like them either, but many people do because it gives them bragging rights and a sense of... well you know. |
17:05 |
domtron |
iqualfragile_: Your idea would be good for someone building a game but it should not be integrated into the engine. The game maker could commission the art an give codes to unlock them on their website. |
17:05 |
domtron |
an >> and* |
17:05 |
iqualfragile_ |
urgh |
17:06 |
iqualfragile_ |
s/an >> and\*/s\/an\/and\// |
17:08 |
xyz |
i bet people who're writing these sed commands are feeling so smart every time |
17:08 |
spillz |
Kids as the target audience is precisely why mobile is the ideal place to experiment with a pay model. I have kids and pretty regularly pay a couple of bucks for games. The payment system is already set up through the app store which makes it easy and familiar for parents to approve and pay. |
17:08 |
domtron |
heh, practicing regexes :P |
17:09 |
iqualfragile_ |
why would he pipe the output of an into a file called and? |
17:10 |
domtron |
stupidity >.< :P |
17:10 |
domtron |
bye... for now |
17:11 |
iqualfragile_ |
on another notice: ther are currently 86 pull requests open for minetest |
17:11 |
iqualfragile_ |
it would realy be great if this number could be reduced by 70 |
17:12 |
iqualfragile_ |
can you guys try to find some day of the week where most have a bit time to spare to regularly review those pull requests? |
17:13 |
iqualfragile_ |
darkrose, hmmmm, sfan5, RealBadAngel ShadowNinja which day of the week fits best for you? |
17:24 |
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17:28 |
iqualfragile_ |
such response |
17:28 |
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17:32 |
celeron55 |
wtf |
17:32 |
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17:33 |
celeron55 |
why is there no documentation available anywhere for register_biome? |
17:33 |
celeron55 |
is it still considered so unstable that not even a line of documentation was written anywhere? |
17:35 |
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17:43 |
sfan5 |
iqualfragile_: any day odf the weekend |
17:51 |
Calinou |
<domtron> OpenTTD is awesome, however it suffers, like many FOSS games, from lack of content. (I'm < 30 yrs old ;) ) |
17:51 |
Calinou |
from ugliness* |
17:52 |
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17:55 |
proller |
<30 years old peoples detected ^ |
17:56 |
VanessaE |
I'm late to the discussion but the copyright of the cover art, I dunno if that's valid or not.... it's basically my screenshot from my texture pack test track (with the default textures)... |
17:57 |
VanessaE |
(and I don't remember what the original license was for those shots) |
18:10 |
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18:19 |
sapier |
https://gist.github.com/sapier/9745980 ShadowNinja I've copied your issues to gist so everyone else can add comments to it too |
18:19 |
sapier |
some of your issues are quite hard to fix others are no problem |
18:26 |
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18:28 |
iqualfragile_ |
PilzAdam: which day of the week would be best for you? |
18:28 |
iqualfragile_ |
sapier: which day of the week would be best for you? |
18:29 |
sapier |
? |
18:29 |
sapier |
for what? |
18:29 |
sapier |
sorry didn't read log today |
18:29 |
iqualfragile_ |
there are tons of pull request open for minetest (86 iicc) |
18:29 |
sapier |
argh :-) |
18:29 |
PenguinDad |
<iqualfragile_> can you guys try to find some day of the week where most have a bit time to spare to regularly review those pull requests? |
18:29 |
PenguinDad |
^ sapier |
18:30 |
ShadowNinja |
Saturday is usually best for me. |
18:30 |
sapier |
thanks ... maybe we should just start commenting the pull requests |
18:30 |
sapier |
that's what github is for |
18:30 |
iqualfragile_ |
yes, that would be the plan |
18:30 |
PilzAdam |
<celeron55> is it still considered so unstable that not even a line of documentation was written anywhere? <- basically: yes |
18:31 |
iqualfragile_ |
just take 10 pull requests per week and either merge, close or comment on them |
18:31 |
iqualfragile_ |
well, would need to be a bit more at the begining because lots piled up |
18:31 |
iqualfragile_ |
but that way new contributors would quickly recieve feedback and be motivated to continue |
18:32 |
iqualfragile_ |
(and minetest development would be speeded up) |
18:32 |
sapier |
I suggest starting commenting right now instead of discussing when to do it |
18:32 |
PilzAdam |
iqualfragile_, the proller answer would be: 29th of february |
18:33 |
iqualfragile_ |
finding a regular date is essential in my opinion |
18:34 |
iqualfragile_ |
i think that the problem is that nobody on here realy feels entiteled to merge or care for the pull requests, so haing a timeframe where all/most of the core devs are online would help greatly |
18:34 |
iqualfragile_ |
s/haing/having |
18:35 |
proller |
i can close my last pull.. |
18:35 |
iqualfragile_ |
sapier/ShadowNinja: shaders work for me |
18:35 |
sapier |
on android? |
18:36 |
ShadowNinja |
iqualfragile_: On android? |
18:36 |
iqualfragile_ |
oh, this is for android, sorry |
18:36 |
sapier |
yes question is if the shader config should be enabled on android or not |
18:38 |
iqualfragile_ |
while they might work i doubt they make sense because android is quite weak |
18:38 |
iqualfragile_ |
well, the hardware android usually runs on that is |
18:39 |
sapier |
hardware is gonna get faster quite quick so if there's a chance they're gonna work in a year I see no reason to disable the setting now |
18:39 |
sapier |
they're disabled by default anyway |
18:44 |
sfan5 |
sapier: I don't think GLSL for GLES is that good yet |
18:45 |
sfan5 |
we should really get GLESv2 to work |
18:45 |
sapier |
well it's not about what is standard, non npot2 textures aren't part of ogles1 too but there are devices out there which support it |
18:46 |
sapier |
glesv2 is a n irrlicht issue if irrlicht is fixed we've got gles2 support |
18:49 |
sapier |
did anyone check the formspec based deathscreen by now? |
18:56 |
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18:56 |
sfan5 |
[!] merging #1185 now |
18:56 |
ShadowBot |
sfan5: Error: ProcessTimeoutError: Process #19 (for String.re) aborted due to timeout. |
18:56 |
xyz |
celeron55: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2014-02-26#i_3598517 |
19:02 |
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19:07 |
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19:09 |
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19:12 |
celeron55 |
xyz: and? |
19:13 |
xyz |
celeron55: the community is kinda shit |
19:14 |
celeron55 |
well generally nobody in this world understands licenses, why didn't anyone tell them it doesn't violate anything |
19:14 |
celeron55 |
oh, because of that i guess |
19:15 |
celeron55 |
well whatever, i don't care as long as they don't insult and DoS people and stuff |
19:15 |
xyz |
they did |
19:15 |
celeron55 |
that i already saw |
19:15 |
celeron55 |
or is there more? |
19:16 |
xyz |
there's too much |
19:16 |
celeron55 |
well what can we do |
19:17 |
celeron55 |
make the next release of the game tell people out loud how LGPL works? |
19:17 |
celeron55 |
maybe not |
19:17 |
xyz |
have proper moderators on forum and IRC |
19:17 |
xyz |
it could've been stopped |
19:17 |
xyz |
remove improper moderators |
19:18 |
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19:19 |
celeron55 |
well who is proper and who is improper? |
19:21 |
celeron55 |
people who understand licenses really well aren't the kind of people who like to be moderators |
19:21 |
celeron55 |
and even if we found one, he wouldn't be online at the moment when some kids go crazy |
19:21 |
PilzAdam |
I think that its not really about licenses, but people recieving money for nothing |
19:22 |
sapier |
that's why I'm doing the andorid port efforts once we've got our own port in there it's users problem if they download bogus versions |
19:22 |
xyz |
PilzAdam: stop trying to defend your actions |
19:22 |
celeron55 |
i think the only thing we can practically do is make a new post in the news section that discusses this topic |
19:23 |
PilzAdam |
xyz, stop stating your opinion |
19:23 |
celeron55 |
maybe some of the kids trust authority like that |
19:25 |
celeron55 |
or alternatively a wiki page that people can link to others when discussions like that happen |
19:26 |
celeron55 |
this is a complete text for such: https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/compliance-guide.html |
19:27 |
celeron55 |
which nobody will read because it is long because it contains almost every detail |
19:29 |
xyz |
celeron55: Calinou, for example, was acting properly on IRC |
19:31 |
sapier |
imho we coult take a lot of power fron these discussion if we did speedup our porting efforts |
19:31 |
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19:31 |
xyz |
right |
19:31 |
sapier |
I suggest working towards a combined 0.4.10 + android release till end of april |
19:31 |
celeron55 |
xyz: i don't consider this worth spending time on; if someone has direct suggestions for what i should do, then tell |
19:31 |
xyz |
good luck with that |
19:31 |
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19:32 |
PilzAdam |
sapier, wait another month for 0.4.10?! |
19:32 |
celeron55 |
more like release 0.4.10 now that we don't have the android problems in upstream |
19:32 |
sapier |
we need to check and test all thos changes resulting from android port and I don't think it'd be wise to run branches |
19:32 |
celeron55 |
then after that it's a clean table for those problems |
19:33 |
proller |
whats new in 0.4.10 exept shaders ? |
19:33 |
sapier |
some of the problems I fixed for android ar problems/issues in master too |
19:33 |
celeron55 |
some mod api stuff and bugfixes |
19:38 |
sapier |
one of the main problems is still that crash on async with luajit ... I'm not sure but I'd not be surprised if it'd be same unaligned memory access causing crash on android |
19:38 |
sapier |
it does only happen on very new distributions |
19:40 |
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19:50 |
ShadowNinja |
#123 |
19:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/123 -- crashes after about 10 seconds on game start |
19:51 |
ShadowNinja |
That timeout error is fixed now. |
19:51 |
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19:56 |
celeron55 |
gah |
19:56 |
celeron55 |
this is annoying |
19:56 |
celeron55 |
when i start typing a command from the game starting with /, the player flies down |
19:56 |
celeron55 |
because it involves pressing shift |
19:57 |
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19:57 |
celeron55 |
wait, i mean that even if i do it from the chatbox that is already open |
19:57 |
celeron55 |
this is probably some regression caused by sapier's gui stuff |
19:58 |
celeron55 |
sapier: can you fix it? |
19:58 |
celeron55 |
or, well, you absolutely have to |
19:58 |
sapier |
I'll fix it |
20:03 |
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20:15 |
sapier |
celeron what's wrong with /? |
20:19 |
sapier |
I've just downloaded latest master there it dosn't happen for me ... I know starting a command with / before did behave that way and it doesn't happen for me anytime now |
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20:45 |
celeron55 |
what can i say? |
20:45 |
celeron55 |
it happens to me all the time |
20:47 |
spillz |
Someone should lock that globeminner thread. add a post to the end saying "no mas" and ban anyone who tries to continue it. Someone should email or pm the guy to resolve whatever differences need to be resolved - which I gather is mostly his copyright violation of the artwork- and all go their own way. If it were my site I would have banned anyone advocating griefing etc... It's all very childish and reflects badly on the site and the game. |
20:47 |
sfan5 |
>and ban anyone who tries to continue it |
20:48 |
sfan5 |
ban *@* I guess |
20:48 |
sfan5 |
there seem to be no issues left with copyright |
20:48 |
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20:50 |
sapier |
can someone try to verify celerons issues ... according to code movement is disabled once a menu is shown ... this hasn't changed in my code ... i tested master celeron did you try on android? |
20:52 |
sapier |
celeron55 your system is to fast ;-) |
20:53 |
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20:55 |
sapier |
celeron55 you should fly down in pause menu too is this true? |
21:01 |
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21:15 |
celeron55 |
hmm, now i don't know what i was talking about, i can't reproduce it anymore |
21:16 |
celeron55 |
wtf... well whatever |
21:19 |
domtron |
I was playing around with table formspecs and rubenwardy smartfs which crashed minetest. I'm fairly certain it has nouthing to do with smartfs but I heven't tried just using show formspec for a table. Should I post a topic on the bug forum or modding general? |
21:19 |
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21:19 |
domtron |
nothing * |
21:26 |
sapier |
domtron: please post on github if possible |
21:28 |
domtron |
are there guidlines somewhere? |
21:29 |
sapier |
sure but it's as everywhere, exact version, logs, description what you did to cause the bug |
21:29 |
domtron |
ok thanks |
21:35 |
specing |
sfan5: how come? |
21:46 |
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