| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:37 |
|
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| 00:46 |
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| 00:49 |
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| 01:49 |
VanessaE |
help! |
| 01:49 |
VanessaE |
random server crashes with no log output |
| 01:50 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6554237/ |
| 01:51 |
VanessaE |
no segfaults, nothing anywhere in the logs, no evidence of out-of-memory conditions |
| 01:51 |
VanessaE |
it's happened four times in a row now, each time it seems to be associated with digging a pipeworks node (but that code has been stable for weeks) |
| 01:51 |
VanessaE |
if it were a mod error, there would be a backtrace |
| 01:54 |
VanessaE |
wraith says he placed a tube just prior to the crash |
| 01:54 |
VanessaE |
so I wonder if the crash is happening inside the rollback manager? |
| 01:57 |
VanessaE |
I am seeing if I can get wraith to sign back on so I can get him to cause another crash but this time with the server running under gdb. |
| 02:02 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6554267/ |
| 02:02 |
VanessaE |
um, wut? |
| 02:03 |
VanessaE |
why does it show pipeworks as directly at fault now? |
| 02:03 |
VanessaE |
when it shows no error or backtrace when not running under gdb |
| 02:04 |
VanessaE |
local backdir = minetest.facedir_to_dir(node.param2) |
| 02:04 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
what's facedir_to_dir() supposed to return if given nil as its input? |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
(I didn't write this code so I'm not yet sure how to properly correct it) |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
oops, that belongs in #minetest |
| 02:07 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: It returns nil. |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
seems an "or {}" added to the above should be sufficient then |
| 02:14 |
VanessaE |
ok, that was not enough to stop it and the crash is NOT being logged |
| 02:14 |
VanessaE |
unless I run it inside of gdb |
| 02:14 |
ShadowNinja |
That would be just as invalud as nil, and it makes it harder to detect error conditions. |
| 02:14 |
VanessaE |
it just...restarts |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
well THAT commit that just now went into pipeworks should be right but it doesn't fix the fundamental problem of the engine not producing a backtrace when it dies. |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
it looks like it's throwing an error okay, but it isn't *logging* the error is the problem |
| 02:23 |
ShadowNinja |
This adds support for protection to the screwdriver,in addition to minetest.swap_node and better code style: https://github.com/ShadowNinja/minetest_game/commit/a4e4950db4d0a769a3a82f055c2bc7a64c1f167c |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
I caught it outside of gdb, the backtrace is on the controlling term but it isn't in the log |
| 02:23 |
ShadowNinja |
Anyone to revie?w |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
yep, that's the problem |
| 02:23 |
ShadowNinja |
? >> 1 |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
the engine is not logging the crashes |
| 02:28 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: revie[0x1F]w ? |
| 02:28 |
VanessaE |
;) |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
no, something's wrong here. |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/blob/master/autoplace_tubes.lua#L29 |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
damn it, wrong channel again |
| 02:32 |
VanessaE |
-->#minetest |
| 02:37 |
ShadowNinja |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/228 |
| 02:41 |
hmmmm |
convertFaceToIndex() should be a LUT, not a giant if-elseif statement |
| 02:41 |
hmmmm |
that's ridiculous |
| 02:48 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: Done. Do you know of a way to generate a entry from faces_table mathematically? |
| 02:48 |
hmmmm |
nope |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
ok, so the actual *crash* was the result of an obscure mod bug, but the lack of error messages in the log is the engine failing to write said errors to the log (they appear on the controlling shell though). |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE, I actually came across the same thing for a new set of API i'm working on |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
absolutely no error messages at all, program just terminates immediately |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
wonder what ShadowNinja has to say |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
(in particular, inside of an on_generate callback, a pretty typical undefined variable error) |
| 03:20 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: Nothing in the console? |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
nothing |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
ok, just happened again, this time while someone was placing some mesecons wires. |
| 03:21 |
ShadowNinja |
Well Vanessa had a error in the console I beleive. |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
again, no logging of any kind, just a restart, and the user reports that the server just...died. no "Server shutting down" message |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
yes, that's correct shadow |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
the error was in the console, but not in the logs |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
oh, hrm |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
maybe there is an error in the console but it doesn't show up until after the debugger is done handling the signal |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
ok, I have a session open and crashed right now |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
oh duh |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
a Lua error in another spot in pipeworks (I will fix in a sec). it's sitting in gdb waiting for me to resume |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
I just figured out what my own problem was |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
console has the error, debug,.txt does not |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
-, |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
i.e. blindly writing Lua interpreter code while being half asleep |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
btw |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
it throws a SIGABRT |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
of all things |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
fuck |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
hrm |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
there's something subtly different between the facedir_to_dir() that got pushed to git and the version that was being used previously in pipeworks |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/commit/7289bfcfbab13044b83720ff4c675a356b8dedc5 |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
there's where I phased it out in favor of the default one |
| 03:33 |
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| 03:33 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Two numbers got swapped because they were backwards. |
| 03:34 |
VanessaE |
pardon? |
| 03:36 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/4e5760a5416cbca6945b1b4484cbd96bea7b250c |
| 03:37 |
VanessaE |
well that may be, but that's not why my code is suddenly crashing |
| 03:37 |
VanessaE |
minetet.facedir_to_dir() is interpreting its input differently from what the function it replaced was. |
| 03:37 |
VanessaE |
+s |
| 03:44 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: It didn't replace anything. |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: in pipeworks it did. there was a copy of a substantially similar function included therein. similar to the deal with lib6d. |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
I phased out the copy in favor of the one that made it into 0.4.8 |
| 03:47 |
ShadowNinja |
Yes, but they look identical. |
| 03:54 |
VanessaE |
well at any rate I seem to have fixed it (or at least kludged around it ;) ) |
| 03:59 |
hmmmm |
oh here we go |
| 03:59 |
hmmmm |
"terminate called after throwing an instance of 'LuaError' |
| 04:00 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 04:00 |
VanessaE |
so the server crashed while trying to handle a crash? :) |
| 04:00 |
hmmmm |
I suppose so |
| 04:00 |
hmmmm |
oh wait |
| 04:00 |
hmmmm |
hold on a minute |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
"404, file not fould [...] in addition, the server encountered a 404 while trying to display a custom error page" |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
when you get a lua error in on_step or whatever, what happens? do you get an error like you're supposed to? |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
ehm? |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
oh, no clue |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
I never use on_step |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
because I think you're supposed to try to catch LuaError |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
at least not directly |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
and because this went uncaught it's doing this |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
let me check something real quick |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
though I think pipeworks uses it by way of Nore's item transport code |
| 04:02 |
VanessaE |
yep, on_step is used there, though I doubt it's relevent. |
| 04:04 |
VanessaE |
inb4 "oh this is just shit, what fucking moron code this trash?" |
| 04:04 |
VanessaE |
:D |
| 04:05 |
VanessaE |
+d |
| 04:06 |
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| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
so I don't get it |
| 04:10 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 04:10 |
hmmmm |
so you need to catch LuaErrors in an try catch statement when calling a callback? |
| 04:11 |
hmmmm |
when your mod does something wrong, the server is supposed to terminate and it goes back to the main menu |
| 04:11 |
hmmmm |
and then display an error message of some sort |
| 04:11 |
hmmmm |
but right now it doesn't do that for on_generate callbacks because there's no catching of LuaErrors whatsoever |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
correct..? |
| 04:12 |
VanessaE |
it's always been the case in the past that the server would throw an error, log it, and dump you into a half-broken error screen, buy you never had to do anything special to get there |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
right |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
except now when a LuaError is thrown, it just explodes with SIGABRT like you said earlier |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
which I experienced earlier too |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
I should thing that would continue to be the proper behavior rather than through a SIGABRT |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
the "terminate called after throwing instance of ..." is a standard libstdc++ error message |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
alright, at this point it's pretty clear what the problem is |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
think* |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
but now my question is what happened for this behavior to change, and who did it, and what was the rationale? |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
I wish I knew |
| 04:14 |
hmmmm |
it was either sapier or shadowninja |
| 04:20 |
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| 04:20 |
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| 04:21 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: That would be me. Before Lua errors didn't throw a LuaError, but there was no errorhandler. |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
I think the only other place you'd need to add a LuaError catch is in EmergeThread |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
I'll add that |
| 04:23 |
hmmmm |
seems to work exactly as intended if it is caught |
| 05:21 |
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| 09:20 |
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| 10:12 |
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| 10:13 |
RealBadAngel |
hi, i would like to add simple feature to shaders |
| 10:13 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/d56214cb097ff0297e479501dd21d6d86c573b6d |
| 10:14 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody against it? |
| 10:14 |
RealBadAngel |
the code is to allow one overriding normal map for all nodes |
| 10:19 |
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| 10:20 |
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| 10:51 |
proller |
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Vicono+Inc. |
| 10:52 |
proller |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121596#p121596 |
| 10:56 |
proller |
with lot of adv |
| 10:59 |
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| 11:14 |
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| 11:58 |
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| 12:01 |
RealBadAngel |
hello earthlings ;) again |
| 12:02 |
RealBadAngel |
can i push my change> |
| 12:02 |
RealBadAngel |
? |
| 12:14 |
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| 13:09 |
thexyz |
I wonder if Android is the most popular platform Minetest runs on now |
| 13:10 |
thexyz |
according to that google play page it has 10k-50k installs |
| 13:25 |
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| 13:34 |
celeron55 |
most likely not |
| 13:36 |
celeron55 |
my estimate of minetest's installation base (i.e. how many computers have minetest on them) is more like 100k than 10k |
| 13:36 |
proller__ |
20-30k |
| 13:38 |
proller__ |
buildcraft have 10k-50k installs per 12 days |
| 13:38 |
proller__ |
first comment on market - 29.11.2013 |
| 13:46 |
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| 14:26 |
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| 15:22 |
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| 15:35 |
BlockMen |
is it intentional that lava is also waving with the new shaders? |
| 15:42 |
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| 15:47 |
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| 15:51 |
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| 15:52 |
PilzAdam |
ShadowNinja, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/228 why do you remove default from depends.txt? |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:07 |
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| 16:07 |
celeron55 |
i guess because it's not really dependent on default |
| 16:08 |
celeron55 |
there's just one crafting recipe |
| 16:08 |
RealBadAngel |
hi |
| 16:08 |
RealBadAngel |
hi celeron55 |
| 16:09 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, a crafting recipe is enough to make it depend on default, I guess |
| 16:11 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't matter in reality anyway |
| 16:11 |
celeron55 |
but putting it in that commit is random |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:23 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, PilzAdam anything against it? https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/d56214cb097ff0297e479501dd21d6d86c573b6d |
| 16:25 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, whats a reasonable usecase for this? |
| 16:26 |
RealBadAngel |
case is to use one TP selected normal file for all the nodes |
| 16:27 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have one, really nice ready |
| 16:30 |
PilzAdam |
I wonder if it woulb be better to add a fallback texture |
| 16:31 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/InX6xHT.png |
| 16:31 |
RealBadAngel |
no, that is not a good idea |
| 16:32 |
PilzAdam |
why not? |
| 16:32 |
RealBadAngel |
because if we do start support normalmaps we shall support them in one style |
| 16:32 |
celeron55 |
i don't understand why anyone would use anything like that |
| 16:32 |
RealBadAngel |
ie texture pack style |
| 16:33 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, thats a matter of taste, for me personal it looks great |
| 16:33 |
RealBadAngel |
everything looks like made of lego bricks |
| 16:35 |
RealBadAngel |
and all just by supporting one file |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
if texture pack will support override_normal.png it will be used for everything |
| 16:37 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, about fallback normal, hmmm, have you seen Bumped, yes? |
| 16:38 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: c55's right. It doesn't depend on default, it just has a craft recipe. Therefore you can copy it to, eg, a game without default and add a craft recipe in a seperate mod. |
| 16:38 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, i do have almost ready Bumped as a feature. it bumps all 16x default textures |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/ntnJJWm.png |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
this is how it looks like atm |
| 16:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i am working on making shadows smoother |
| 16:46 |
Exio4 |
how are you making those? |
| 16:46 |
Exio4 |
(bumpmaps) |
| 16:47 |
ShadowNinja |
RealBadAngel: Isn't there a way to mathematically calculate the facedir of a node without using a giant table and loops on it? |
| 16:48 |
RealBadAngel |
ShadowNinja, what exactly do you need? |
| 16:48 |
RealBadAngel |
Exio4, last screenshots are from the engine, theyre not made |
| 16:49 |
Exio4 |
wow |
| 16:49 |
RealBadAngel |
well, the one that causes world to look like lego is made |
| 16:50 |
Exio4 |
yeah, but i was talking about the last ones :P |
| 16:50 |
RealBadAngel |
one file that serves as a normalmap for all the tiles |
| 16:50 |
RealBadAngel |
its made as 16x16 lego brick tile |
| 16:50 |
RealBadAngel |
to fit the resolution |
| 16:51 |
RealBadAngel |
normalmap is made using CrazyBump |
| 16:51 |
RealBadAngel |
ShadowNinja, look at the facedir table description in mapblock_mesh |
| 16:52 |
ShadowNinja |
The engine uses a table too? :-| |
| 16:52 |
RealBadAngel |
yes it does, it is way faster |
| 16:53 |
PilzAdam |
faster than... ? |
| 16:53 |
RealBadAngel |
since it is used for each and every tile, lookup is always faster than calculations |
| 16:53 |
RealBadAngel |
6 times per node |
| 16:54 |
RealBadAngel |
i made the code that calculated that but dropped it after trying |
| 16:54 |
RealBadAngel |
it was horribly slow |
| 16:56 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, now 6d is faster than old facedir if you would like to know |
| 16:56 |
RealBadAngel |
as for my box it was like 5fps gain |
| 16:57 |
ShadowNinja |
RealBadAngel: Perhaps, but the screwdriver doesn't run often, and Lua tables are slower. |
| 16:58 |
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| 16:58 |
RealBadAngel |
screwdriver uses tables only in one mode |
| 16:58 |
RealBadAngel |
that for VanessaE insisted |
| 16:59 |
PilzAdam |
also it seems like some mod sets facedir > 23, you should double-check the screwdriver |
| 16:59 |
RealBadAngel |
i will, but i doubt thats screwdriver fault |
| 17:00 |
RealBadAngel |
there was a check in the engine that checked it |
| 17:00 |
RealBadAngel |
and then terminated |
| 17:00 |
PilzAdam |
there was an assert() that crashed clients! I already replaced it so it at least doesnt crash... |
| 17:00 |
RealBadAngel |
it was there before |
| 17:01 |
RealBadAngel |
it was workin the very same way for old facedir values |
| 17:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent put in there |
| 17:02 |
RealBadAngel |
if it was crashin it was the mods that set up illegal values |
| 17:02 |
RealBadAngel |
screwdriver alone cannot do that |
| 17:03 |
RealBadAngel |
:P thx to tables :P |
| 17:03 |
PilzAdam |
mods shouldnt be able to crash clients |
| 17:04 |
RealBadAngel |
huh, there are thousand of way to do that |
| 17:05 |
RealBadAngel |
*ways |
| 17:05 |
RealBadAngel |
insert random keys poking into script for example |
| 17:06 |
RealBadAngel |
youre still sayin that mods shouldnt crash server? |
| 17:06 |
PilzAdam |
you should consider to re-read what I said |
| 17:06 |
RealBadAngel |
or perhaps modders should write better mods? |
| 17:07 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc i did |
| 17:08 |
RealBadAngel |
if any code changes the values range, it should be wrote in a way to know what values are possible |
| 17:09 |
RealBadAngel |
and that applies to any code, not only mods |
| 17:09 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why for example light was fucked up in shaders for ages |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:13 |
RealBadAngel |
and you cant make the code check it all, because then it will be slowed down as hell |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
and there are many asserts in the code |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
dont blame for one that i havent put there, but just was close enough to it |
| 17:29 |
RealBadAngel |
john_minetest, i keep adding new features |
| 17:30 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/InX6xHT.png |
| 17:30 |
RealBadAngel |
this is example usage for one normalmap for everything |
| 17:30 |
PilzAdam |
how about fixing old ones first? |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, what i should fix? |
| 17:31 |
PilzAdam |
you said water shader needs a total rewrite |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 17:31 |
PilzAdam |
and needs to be configureable in nodedef |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
and i will rewrite water |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats not the SHADER case |
| 17:32 |
RealBadAngel |
water have to be changed in the engine |
| 17:32 |
RealBadAngel |
so it wont have 6 surfaces any longer |
| 17:33 |
RealBadAngel |
john_minetest, 2020 ;) |
| 17:33 |
PilzAdam |
as long as you dont break the water of Nodetopia |
| 17:34 |
PilzAdam |
(which you somewhat did with the water shaders) |
| 17:35 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, such change will be cosmetical for gameplay |
| 17:35 |
RealBadAngel |
but critical for shaders |
| 17:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i just want to know what tile i should shade, thats all |
| 17:37 |
RealBadAngel |
so, what about https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/d56214cb097ff0297e479501dd21d6d86c573b6d |
| 17:37 |
RealBadAngel |
can i merge it? |
| 17:37 |
PilzAdam |
Im still not convinced that its useful |
| 17:38 |
RealBadAngel |
you liked Bumped already |
| 17:38 |
RealBadAngel |
so why not Legoed for example? :) |
| 17:39 |
RealBadAngel |
not to mention that such effect is very lightweight |
| 17:39 |
RealBadAngel |
its just a texture pack that consist only of one file |
| 17:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i like lego, some1 can like something else |
| 17:41 |
RealBadAngel |
its a feature, not hardcoded stuff |
| 17:42 |
RealBadAngel |
i can think of many possible shapes that could be used |
| 17:43 |
RealBadAngel |
for example one similar to sphax texture |
| 17:44 |
RealBadAngel |
Bumped/and this feature can make game lookin interesting for folks that have problems with many textures |
| 17:47 |
RealBadAngel |
having an option to change the look by providing just one file isnt good at all? |
| 17:48 |
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| 17:54 |
RealBadAngel |
it is a sample usage of the feature |
| 17:55 |
RealBadAngel |
if you dont know apply the patch and try for christ sake |
| 17:56 |
RealBadAngel |
all of you are talking about what you have not tried |
| 17:56 |
RealBadAngel |
theres one, of your choice |
| 17:57 |
RealBadAngel |
my choice was lego like |
| 17:57 |
RealBadAngel |
if you want it i can upload it |
| 17:58 |
RealBadAngel |
gimme a minute |
| 18:01 |
RealBadAngel |
http://www.sendspace.pl/file/1e7afafb6c681bb232d7606 |
| 18:01 |
RealBadAngel |
put it into /textures/whatever/ |
| 18:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean in a folder as for texture pack |
| 18:01 |
RealBadAngel |
with this single file in it |
| 18:02 |
RealBadAngel |
and then you will be able to select it via texture pack selection menu |
| 18:03 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc, shaders have to be enabled to see the change |
| 18:14 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, can you try it also? |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:18 |
thexyz |
celeron55: https://support.google.com/legal/contact/lr_dmca?product=googleplay |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
Are you taking down build craft? |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
Can't believe it is getting 3 stars |
| 18:23 |
thexyz |
why not? |
| 18:23 |
thexyz |
it's running pretty OK |
| 18:23 |
thexyz |
(controls suck a bit though) |
| 18:23 |
thexyz |
it has more features than other Minecraft clones AFAIK |
| 18:24 |
thexyz |
multiplayer + modding API + great community with tons of mods (not like people use them much, but they play on servers with mods) |
| 18:24 |
thexyz |
at the same time it has weird UI |
| 18:24 |
thexyz |
and, well, it lags |
| 18:25 |
thexyz |
what do you think it should be rated instead? |
| 18:26 |
celeron55 |
hmmh, well yeah, we kind of have to do something now |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:26 |
celeron55 |
even if i thought this was acceptable, many of minetest's past contributors wouldn't |
| 18:27 |
rubenwardy |
What happened to the thread? |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
"Full legal name of the copyright holder you represent" |
| 18:28 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: it was trashed because of obvious reasons |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
john_minetest, how? whats the problem? |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
"Full legal name of the copyright holder you represent" <- i wonder what this is; i'm not too eager to put this under my name |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
legally i should list every contributor's name in that field |
| 18:30 |
Warr1024 |
only the ones you're sure you can speak for... |
| 18:30 |
celeron55 |
or really, every contributor should fill this form for themselves for their part of the source code |
| 18:31 |
thexyz |
celeron55: yes, that's why I'm asking you; you have the biggest number of contributions I think, moreover, every source file has a comment with your name |
| 18:32 |
Warr1024 |
where is this app anyway? |
| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
john_minetest, thats propably because of height, i should forbid the drawtype to use parallax |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
changes the way you see the texture |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
its a geometry stuff |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping |
| 18:38 |
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| 18:38 |
sapier |
guy's you don't know what you're missing eclipse lua debugger is phantastic ;-) |
| 18:38 |
sapier |
-ph+f |
| 18:38 |
sapier |
+, |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
true eclipse is slow but having full debug and breakpoint support within lua is a feature I was missing eversince |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
and I just found out it's allways been there |
| 18:40 |
PilzAdam |
john_minetest, eh, what? |
| 18:41 |
ShadowNinja |
-> #minetest |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
as far as I know builtin contains lua files to so IMHO usefull debugging environment for it is core relevant information too |
| 18:43 |
thexyz |
so can it debug embedded Lua? |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
exactly |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
wait I'm uploading a screenshot |
| 18:47 |
sapier |
it doesn't catch assertions for now but you can just replace assert by your own fct and place a bp in there so this is a minor limitation |
| 18:48 |
sapier |
http://imgur.com/F57R6x4 |
| 18:49 |
sapier |
I guess it'd be even possible to run c++ and lua debugger at same time |
| 18:50 |
sapier |
well they wouldn't know about each other so this might not be that usefull |
| 18:52 |
thexyz |
pretty cool |
| 18:53 |
sapier |
yes and all you have to do is adding two lines to builtin |
| 18:54 |
sapier |
it's exactly opposite to c++ debugging, in lua the application connects to debugger (at least in embedded case) |
| 18:54 |
sapier |
local initconnection = require("debugger") |
| 18:54 |
sapier |
initconnection("localhost", nil, nil) |
| 18:55 |
sapier |
debugger is a file that's provided with koneki(eclipse lua plugin) you only have to copy it to your lua search path |
| 18:55 |
sapier |
that's all ... quite simple |
| 18:55 |
thexyz |
I think you could document it somewhere (wiki) if you have time |
| 18:56 |
sapier |
It's as simple It may not even need documentation, koneki already contains this documentation you just have to know it's really working |
| 18:57 |
sapier |
but of course you don't get debugging for nothing it's significant slower |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
subjective feeling something round about fator 5-10 |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
+c |
| 19:00 |
thexyz |
yes, no need to document, okay |
| 19:01 |
sapier |
I'll write a short paragraph in modding section so others realize it's possible ... modders may not read this log ... and I guess most core devs aren't willing to switch their favourite editor just for lua debugging .... especialy as eclipse is a real pain in the ass for beginners |
| 19:28 |
sapier |
http://dev.minetest.net/Intro thexyz the "IDE" subsection |
| 19:30 |
thexyz |
thanks |
| 19:32 |
ShadowNinja |
How do #221, #228, and #229 look? (Related) |
| 19:34 |
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| 19:36 |
sapier |
I hope on_place isn't called if a node is e.g. added by a entity |
| 19:37 |
sapier |
if "user" is used in that function it's always checked first to be not nil |
| 19:47 |
sapier |
shadow I added some comments to those three it's only minor changes I believe to be done |
| 19:48 |
sapier |
-done + necessary |
| 19:48 |
celeron55 |
on_place is supposed to be called for any entity that places a node |
| 19:49 |
sapier |
then my comment to this commit is even more correct |
| 19:49 |
celeron55 |
if you make a monster that builds stuff, it should call it |
| 19:49 |
celeron55 |
(there are api functions for placing a node for that, instead of setting a node) |
| 19:50 |
sapier |
I don't have monsters that do place nodes for now but good to know |
| 19:51 |
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| 19:51 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: I don't think nil placers/users are valid there. |
| 19:53 |
sapier |
read seven lines up |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:54 |
sapier |
btw others within that function check for it so if you're really 100% sure it doesn't happen you should remove the check there too |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
could people please ALWAYS explicitly mention the full URL when discussing about something? |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
eg. now i have no idea what people are talking about |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
and i'm not going to manyally check three different pull requests based on numbers to find it |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
manually* |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
sapier, you should mention what IDE means |
| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
gtg |
| 20:09 |
sapier |
was rubenwardy serious? |
| 20:10 |
Calinou |
probably not |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:11 |
sapier |
I tend to assume someone who doesn't know what an ide is doesn't actually need it |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:17 |
Warr1024 |
IDE = precursor to SATA |
| 20:17 |
sapier |
no thats PATA |
| 20:18 |
sapier |
:-) |
| 20:18 |
Warr1024 |
PATA basically = IDE renamed |
| 20:18 |
thexyz |
sapier: so do you use eclipse to develop minetest? |
| 20:18 |
sapier |
yes actually name PATA was defined along with SATA so it isn't a real predecessor |
| 20:19 |
sapier |
yes thexyz for core as well as mods ... if you wanna try avoid juno it was crap |
| 20:19 |
thexyz |
lol |
| 20:19 |
thexyz |
I'm still waiting & hoping for http://www.jetbrains.com/objc/features/cpp.html |
| 20:20 |
sapier |
yea juno was first 4.x release ... obviously they forgot to do at least a single performance test |
| 20:20 |
sapier |
any lua support in there? |
| 20:20 |
thexyz |
I doubt it, tbh; but I hope they'll make a good C++ ide for linux |
| 20:21 |
thexyz |
knowing their other products the probability of this is quite high |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
objective c .... isn't that apple eccosystem own language? |
| 20:21 |
thexyz |
yes, originall this is an objective c ide but they're working on a new c++ one |
| 20:21 |
Calinou |
did you try CodeBlocks and Geany? |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
why can't those big companys take a standard language and reinvent their own everytime just to make themselfs different from each other |
| 20:22 |
Calinou |
sapier, that's what they are doing |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
imho it just tells they can't compete with quality so they need some crap difference |
| 20:23 |
thexyz |
Calinou: we want some quality VisualStudio alternative |
| 20:23 |
thexyz |
you suggest geany ;_; |
| 20:23 |
Calinou |
and? |
| 20:23 |
thexyz |
and you still don't get it? |
| 20:23 |
sapier |
yes ... eclipse seemed to become that one but after ibm left development seems to have slowed down dramaticly |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
codeblocks was once my prefered ide but they stopped development |
| 20:24 |
Sokomine |
back in the turbo pascal days i did have an ide. now...it's mostly editor with syntax highlighting and command line tools. eclipse...seems a bit...big...and quite diffrent in handling |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
yes biggest problem with eclipse is it's number of features |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
but same thing is eclipses best feature |
| 20:26 |
sapier |
once you managed to configure eclipse to your needs it's great |
| 20:27 |
Calinou |
just keep a terminal at hand to do "make" |
| 20:27 |
Calinou |
or use a crontab to run it every minute |
| 20:27 |
* Calinou |
runs |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
I start to understand why debug build uses -O1 ;-P |
| 20:27 |
Calinou |
it removes bugs |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
or perhaps i should stop being lazy and google for vim plugins and build my very own ide |
| 20:28 |
Sokomine |
thexyz: sounds good. once you're done, please tell me :-) |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
lol |
| 20:28 |
Sokomine |
(perhaps someone has done so already. who knows) |
| 20:28 |
sapier |
I guess compared to that task even configuring eclipse isn't "hard" |
| 20:30 |
thexyz |
nah, it's not that hard |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
imho there's only one reason for using vim ... you're a old coder waiting for retirement and don't want to learn that modern stuff ;-) *just kidding* |
| 20:31 |
celeron55 |
vim plugins tend to be a bit half-assed so it's kind of nontrivial to make proper use of them |
| 20:31 |
celeron55 |
but... i guess that's what plugins always are |
| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
1) replace your init system with emacs, 2) ???, 3) PROFIT |
| 20:32 |
Sokomine |
john_minetest: :-) |
| 20:34 |
Sokomine |
still, it's odd that ides where more important in the past. but with mt taking several minutes to compile anyway, that part of the ide may not be particulary relevant |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
imho most important part of an ide is it's debugging support ... and sorry vim and emacs aren't quite good there |
| 20:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have a question |
| 20:40 |
RealBadAngel |
who wants to work with me together on the shaders? |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:40 |
Calinou |
Sokomine, if you only change a few files it may be only a few seconds |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
sorry rba I don't have any idea how to write shaders |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
but your latest work is amazing rba |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, PilzAdam ? |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl? hmmm? |
| 20:42 |
Warr1024 |
These shaders sound pretty cool, but I hope they remain a nice optional part of MT... I only have 1 machine that can barely support the old basic shaders as-is... |
| 20:43 |
ShadowNinja |
Segfault that I get whenever a mod crashes, I fix it, and I reenter the world: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6557905/ |
| 20:43 |
Warr1024 |
RealBadAngel: btw, do you have any place where you keep the latest screenshots? |
| 20:43 |
RealBadAngel |
if any of you wont rise a hand and join improving shaders i can see no point in giving right to block the changes im doing to them |
| 20:43 |
thexyz |
sapier: I think there were some plugins to integrate gdb with vim |
| 20:43 |
RealBadAngel |
thats my point |
| 20:44 |
thexyz |
but it seems they all sucked |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
:-) yet a console based editor can't ever compete to a gui using full features of windowing concept ;-) |
| 20:44 |
Warr1024 |
as for me, as long as there's still a "turn shaders off" checkbox and the game runs correctly without them (and essential gameplay elements aren't relying on shaders) then I have no complaints about anything you do with them :-) |
| 20:45 |
sapier |
except for very specific tasks maybe |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
all is optional here |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
without it we would have killed ourselves long time ago ;) |
| 20:46 |
thexyz |
sapier: vim/emacs army is coming for you right now |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
rba haven't your latest changes be merged? if you need someone to agree to them I'll check them |
| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, ive pulled a tiny bit of code today |
| 20:47 |
RealBadAngel |
last changes was about changes to my original code (which made shaders broken for me lol) |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
if you need someone to check just ask, I can't tell anything about the shaders themselfs but I'd not consider bugs in there to be critical, you're the only one to fix them either ;-) |
| 20:48 |
Warr1024 |
Are there going to be different types/levels of shaders depending on capabilities, framerate, or user preferences? |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i want you to download the file http://www.sendspace.pl/file/1e7afafb6c681bb232d7606 |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
put it into textures folder, select it as you would select texture pack |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/d56214cb097ff0297e479501dd21d6d86c573b6d |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
and apply this patch |
| 20:49 |
sapier |
:-) uagh ... that's nothing meant to be viewd directly :-) |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
of fucking course |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
but no one wants to check it ingame |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
especially celeron55 |
| 20:51 |
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| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, have you ever turned shaders on? once? |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
it is ridiculous we have to fight to get our stuff merged |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
we are doing it for free, and feeling like doing hard job |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
rba how shall i name that file? |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
override_normal.png |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
guess I should enable shaders too |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
lol, yes |
| 20:56 |
RealBadAngel |
bumpmapping shall be enabled |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
what am I supposed to see? |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
lego mode |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
can you stop it from beeing aplied to all faces? |
| 21:00 |
Warr1024 |
yeah, it should only be the tops, right? :-) |
| 21:01 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, thats the point, with one texture make it look one style |
| 21:02 |
RealBadAngel |
no matter how many textures are out there |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
not sure if that's really desired :-/ |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a texture pack option |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
why do you all are blind? |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
i do want the feature |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
because all the default textures are ugly |
| 21:04 |
sapier1 |
you could use a little bit more diplomatic words rba ;-) |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
yeah? after months of askin "please do accept what i was working for so long?" |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
i am doing good code. |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
and all the time im forced to beg for it to join |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
this is fucking sick |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
g'nite for today |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
tired of begging for today (UDP timed out) |
| 21:08 |
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| 21:08 |
sapier1 |
guess we need to work on our review process :-/ |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
what about some rule if you wanna add a feature first review to pulls :-) |
| 21:09 |
Warr1024 |
does the problem involve people's changes being rejected, or just being ignored for a long time? |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
-to + two |
| 21:09 |
Warr1024 |
sounds good. |
| 21:10 |
Warr1024 |
or that status as a contributor in credits includes certain responsibiliites to review pulls... |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
main problem is them beeing ignored ... if theres some critizism you can fix it but if noone tells anythin you sit around and wait |
| 21:11 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: #228 is fixed. |
| 21:12 |
Warr1024 |
Sadly, the method I've had the most luck with is just being annoying and catching one of the core devs on IRC... |
| 21:12 |
Warr1024 |
...though I guess RBA's in a unique position, being on the cutting edge with shader tech. |
| 21:12 |
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| 21:12 |
sapier |
what did celeron tell about numbers shadow ;-) |
| 21:12 |
Warr1024 |
I'd love to review the stuff (even if it's just a crashes vs. works for me) but I don't even have hardware capable of it. |
| 21:13 |
PilzAdam |
its not like RBA gets ignored, I talked to him in PM today (a lot) |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
it's not only rba having that feeling it's getting more and more annoying to fulfull the 2 agreements rule as ppl just don't agree ... they don't deny either |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
some vague saying "seems to be fine" can mean anything |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
-a+e |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
I'm writing to fast, need to improve my spelling |
| 21:15 |
PilzAdam |
oO sapier using , ? |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
I try :-) |
| 21:18 |
Warr1024 |
once something gets one OK (and no not-OK's) it seems like it should be a priority to have someone else review it soon. |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
we could have more reviewers? |
| 21:19 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Hmmm, what did he? |
| 21:20 |
Warr1024 |
does review need to be done by a core dev who's familiar with MT architecture, or is it enough for someone who knows how to pull the correct source and/or apply patches automatically to indicate that it works as described? |
| 21:20 |
Warr1024 |
maybe a call to action from the moderately-techinical portions of the community, along with a how-to guide, could open up a pool of potential reviewers... |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja Celeron requested full urls instead of numbers only ... that was primary adressed to you ;-P |
| 21:21 |
PilzAdam |
Warr1024, testing is just one side, looking at and judging code is the other one |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
Warr1024 any review is welcome, in best case write a comment to that pull request and describe your findings |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
the more information is already there, the less needs to be done by core devs, the more efficient merge process can be done |
| 21:23 |
ShadowNinja |
Ah, O.K. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/228 |
| 21:23 |
Zeitgeist_ |
can some one look into https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1042 its related to this bugreport https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=493650 |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
as hmmmm agreed to this one yesterday I'm gonna push it in 15 minutes if noone complains https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1030 |
| 21:23 |
Warr1024 |
I'm just thinking that if pull reqs undergo a more rigorous pre-screening, then core devs may feel that the remaining pull reqs are more worth their time. |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
guess I should test it prior final agreement :-) |
| 21:28 |
sapier |
ok shadow works for me merge it |
| 21:29 |
ShadowNinja |
Alright, pushing... |
| 21:29 |
Warr1024 |
shadow? |
| 21:29 |
Warr1024 |
oh |
| 21:30 |
Warr1024 |
man, I thought you were talking about adding shadows behind the text in the chat interface :-) |
| 21:30 |
sapier |
no, :-) shadowninja just took a way to long nickname |
| 21:30 |
Warr1024 |
no tab autocomplete? |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
tab autocomplete? ... never tried that one in this window... |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
Warr1024: ShadowNinja ... wow it's working :-) |
| 21:32 |
Warr1024 |
I was going to try to subclass the irrlicht static text control to create 9 copies and redraw the text 8 times in black and once in white to add a border contrast. It's not a really optimal solution, but it would serve at least my need, and I suspect that the FPS hit would still be worth being able to read chat text... |
| 21:33 |
Warr1024 |
more ideal would be if I could render the text somehow to a texture or buffer, then either apply a transform of some kind, or just redraw the pre-rendered buffer. |
| 21:33 |
Warr1024 |
but that's way over my head at this point. |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
can you fix that ugly chat overlaying formspec menus issue too? |
| 21:34 |
Warr1024 |
oddly enough I don't think I've ever witnessed that in person before. |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
install mobf do some talking open menu try to switch tabs |
| 21:35 |
Warr1024 |
it might also be nice to add some kind of font scaling to make chat more easily readable at high res. |
| 21:35 |
sapier |
... wont work until chat text is timed out |
| 21:35 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: OR: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/608 |
| 21:35 |
Warr1024 |
ah, cool, it's already been done :-) |
| 21:35 |
Warr1024 |
the best kind of code is the kind I don't have to write :-D |
| 21:35 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: See the font_size setting in Freetype builds. |
| 21:36 |
Warr1024 |
I was thinking it would be cool to try to add an outline around just the text instead of a semi-transparent block behind it, though the block shadow IS much cheaper. |
| 21:36 |
Warr1024 |
like the way a good captioner works. |
| 21:37 |
Warr1024 |
~. |
| 21:37 |
ShadowNinja |
Yes, but you're not going to be able to get the text lined up just right that way, and it will never be accepted due to how ugly it is. |
| 21:37 |
Warr1024 |
what do you mean? |
| 21:38 |
Warr1024 |
for(dx = -1; dx <= 1; dx++) for(dy = -1; dy <=1; dy++) if((dx != 0) || (dy != 0)) rendertext(x + dx, y + dy, black, string); rendertext(x, y, white, string); |
| 21:39 |
Warr1024 |
it's expensive (if font rendering is slow) but works well, assuming that the font renders the same each time, which SHOULD be true as all of the coordinates are integral. |
| 21:40 |
Warr1024 |
unless, I guess, it's a proportional font, it's wrapped, and the bottom and right edges of the bounding box aren't also adjsuted accordingly. |
| 21:41 |
Warr1024 |
if font rendering is slow, the text can be rendered to a buffer, followed by either a matrix convolution and compositing, or a color matrix and a handful of composites. |
| 21:41 |
ShadowNinja |
Well, anyone to agree on that shaded text? And should it adjust? (Polls say yes) |
| 21:41 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: What about the other pull? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/229 |
| 21:42 |
Warr1024 |
adjust? |
| 21:42 |
Warr1024 |
i.e. make a user setting for transparency or something? |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
Warr1024, it'd prolly be less expensive only drawing (x=0,y=-1), (x=0,y=1), (x=-1,y=0), (x=1,y=0), and still gets a nice border |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
can you check? |
| 21:44 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: Adjust to the length of the longest chat line. |
| 21:45 |
Warr1024 |
kaeza: yeah, though there may be a bias of horizontal/vertical vs. diagonal lines, depending also on how the text is antialiased. |
| 21:46 |
Warr1024 |
ShadowNinja: personally I would probably prefer non-adjusting, but either way it's a significant improvement. |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
I can't read that from docs ShadowNinja |
| 21:47 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: https://raw.github.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/lua_api.txt --> Ctrl-F --> on_receive_fields. No mention of sender being optional. |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
lol @ shaded chat text |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
there's nothing written about pos either but pos is absolutely optional |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
minetest had that originally but it was removed for some reason |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
i don't recall by whom or why |
| 21:50 |
Warr1024 |
would you be opposed to adding it back in? |
| 21:51 |
Warr1024 |
I don't see any dissenting comments on the pull req... |
| 21:51 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: So are we to assume that the node argument to set_node is optional? Unles specified as optional all arguments are mandatory. If a optional argument isn't written as such then it is a documentation error. And it's silly to call on_receive_fields with a nil player. |
| 21:52 |
celeron55 |
Warr1024: it's fine to me with PilzAdam's addition |
| 21:54 |
Warr1024 |
awesome. Sounds like between you and PilzAdam, ShadowNinja has the mandatory 2 review ok's to push that commit in...? |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
on_receive_fields is called uppon ANY formspec event |
| 21:56 |
pitriss |
And will be possible to disable that shading? |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
e.g. mod generated non node bound formspecs too |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
wait |
| 22:05 |
ShadowNinja |
pitriss: No, why would you want that? |
| 22:05 |
* ShadowNinja |
recompiles from scratch after rebasing that. |
| 22:06 |
pitriss |
ShadowNinja: because it is ugly.. I don't like that.. I want to see that chat "moves" but when I want to read I can press F10 |
| 22:06 |
Warr1024 |
is there currently any way to change the persistence time of chat messages? |
| 22:07 |
ShadowNinja |
pitriss: But it's unreadable as it is, and it isn't ugly. |
| 22:08 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: There's a setting hardcoded... |
| 22:08 |
Warr1024 |
between adding a knob to turn on/off or change the shading vs. a knob to control how long chat text lasts on screen, I think we'd get more milage out of the latter... |
| 22:09 |
Warr1024 |
of course, that'd be a subject for a separate pullreq. |
| 22:09 |
pitriss |
ShadowNinja: But I don't need to be bothered by gray square on screen.. For me is not wanted that.. For me is enough to see that chat moves.,. (so hide chat is not an option for me), when i want to read what happened I don't have problem with opening console. |
| 22:10 |
Warr1024 |
realistically we're not going to be able to make minetest appear pretty to everyone. |
| 22:11 |
Warr1024 |
the loss of aesthetics in exchange for making the scrolling chat interface more useful than as a "you've got chat messages, F10 to view" indicator is definitely worth it for me. |
| 22:11 |
pitriss |
yes I know, but this is really worst solution for me.. |
| 22:11 |
pitriss |
omg I'm using bigger font so it is barelly readable as is.. I don't need that gray s**t under chat |
| 22:12 |
Warr1024 |
well, we had ideas earlier about a more attractive looking outline shadow. |
| 22:12 |
pitriss |
instead this for me is better solution to have outlined characters |
| 22:13 |
Warr1024 |
please do then, and send us a pull req. |
| 22:14 |
Warr1024 |
I'd love to have those too. |
| 22:14 |
ShadowNinja |
Rebased and ready to push. |
| 22:14 |
Warr1024 |
btw, does font_size control the fonts across the whole UI? |
| 22:14 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: Yes. |
| 22:14 |
pitriss |
I'm not C coder,, but this solution is a crap.. I think is more important to see what you building than some spammers |
| 22:14 |
Warr1024 |
is there any way to change font size just for specific UI elements like chat? |
| 22:15 |
sapier |
I don't think so |
| 22:15 |
ShadowNinja |
pitriss: The chat may be useless to you, but most people use it, so it should be usable. |
| 22:15 |
pitriss |
gray square will make worse visibility in night |
| 22:16 |
sapier |
what are you going to push? |
| 22:16 |
Warr1024 |
pitriss: sounds like the problem has less to do with the UI and more to do with the servers you hang out on :-) |
| 22:16 |
sapier |
shadow? |
| 22:16 |
pitriss |
so it should be possible to disable that |
| 22:17 |
pitriss |
I don't think it is unusable as is.. In console it is pretty readable.. and when console is closed, then players probably build more than read chat |
| 22:18 |
Warr1024 |
I like to be able to read chat while I'm building without having to stop and hit F10 every few seconds to see if I lost something important in the clouds. |
| 22:18 |
Warr1024 |
ideally, it would be nice to be able to turn this on/off. |
| 22:18 |
Warr1024 |
except what would the code maintenance costs be, and would it involve kicking the pull req back to the start of the review process again? |
| 22:18 |
pitriss |
heh so make that "shadow" toggled by keypress |
| 22:19 |
Warr1024 |
I believe it's already togglable with F2 or something :-) |
| 22:19 |
Ritchie |
hello, if you cannot read chat due to bad background, change angle of your view (yaw for example) |
| 22:19 |
Ritchie |
or look into sky |
| 22:19 |
pitriss |
Warr1024: no F2 toggle whole chat |
| 22:20 |
Warr1024 |
pitriss: yeah, hence the :-) |
| 22:20 |
Warr1024 |
sorry, was being facetious. |
| 22:20 |
ShadowNinja |
Warr1024: Because of the way Irrlicht does fonts you need to make your own font for each text size that you want to draw. |
| 22:20 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Shaded chat text. I won't push it just yet though. Do you agree with it? |
| 22:20 |
ShadowNinja |
pitriss: The chat is white. |
| 22:20 |
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| 22:20 |
pitriss |
Warr1024: but I want to "see" chat without being disturbed by gray square on screen |
| 22:21 |
sapier |
do you have a number? |
| 22:21 |
Warr1024 |
anyway, I can think of like a hundred different UI tweaks that I'd love to see added in, myself, but I'd rather the core devs be working on bigger things... |
| 22:21 |
pitriss |
ShadowNinja: Yes, and I'm not looking into sky most of time.. :) So It is not problem for me.. Grass is green, dirt is brown.. |
| 22:22 |
pitriss |
there should be not so huge problem make that possible to toggle it by some key.. |
| 22:33 |
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| 22:33 |
pitriss |
I think best for both sides is to bind toggle of this feature to (for example) F8 (and maybe configuration directive of default state (to be not needed to switch off that everytime i start client)).. then it will be great and not disturbing for ppl who doesn't like/need this feature.. |
| 22:35 |
Warr1024 |
I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be a signficant change to add a toggle to this thing. |
| 22:35 |
Warr1024 |
though I guess in the end ShadowNinja would have to be the one to weigh in on that. |
| 22:36 |
pitriss |
I know lot ppl who like it as is.. so, toggle key is really good idea.. |
| 22:38 |
kaeza |
http://xkcd.com/1172/ |
| 22:39 |
Warr1024 |
nice |
| 22:39 |
pitriss |
and BTW: I tested it right now.. with my setting (I have dejavu sans bold as default font in game) it is readable as is.. even with looking on default light gray clouds:) |
| 22:40 |
Warr1024 |
I'm not opposed to making this togglable in some way, but if it's not worth anyone's time to add whatever switches and knobs are necessary for that, I think the benefits outweigh the costs for most of the users. |
| 22:42 |
pitriss |
Erm but this is game not resources heavy irc client IMHO.. So building is priority, chat should not disturb gameplay when anyone preffer building..:) |
| 22:43 |
pitriss |
So for me, toggle button is almost must have on this feature.. |
| 22:43 |
Warr1024 |
so you'd stop playing minetest completely if a gray shadow were added below you chat text? |
| 22:44 |
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| 22:45 |
pitriss |
No, but why I should be disturbed and with eyesore just because of something is highlighted even if i don't need it? |
| 22:46 |
pitriss |
And yes.. if you highlight chat, then it will attract your eyes more => eyes will be tired quicker.. |
| 22:47 |
pitriss |
in case you want to build.. Now it is accurate for me.. I can notice that something was changed.. but I'm not forced to move eyes there to look what happened there |
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