| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
VanessaE |
working in it now. |
| 00:05 |
iqualfragile |
jeija disappeared |
| 00:10 |
VanessaE |
damn it |
| 00:10 |
VanessaE |
iqualfragile: it set ME as the author. this is not right. |
| 00:10 |
iqualfragile |
i know |
| 00:11 |
VanessaE |
also, "add a picture" and "add a version" should allow URLs |
| 00:11 |
iqualfragile |
just write a notice in the description, i am quite sure jeija will understand |
| 00:11 |
VanessaE |
if there's a file on the web somewhere, I should be able to point to that. |
| 00:11 |
iqualfragile |
but i think about adding a field for maintainer |
| 00:11 |
iqualfragile |
nah, thats some kind of schema: no external dependencies |
| 00:12 |
iqualfragile |
john_minetest: jeija |
| 00:13 |
VanessaE |
iqualfragile: just change the "Author" field to "Uploader" |
| 00:13 |
VanessaE |
and then add separate "Author" and "Maintainer" fields. |
| 00:13 |
VanessaE |
that way the database doesn't get screwed up |
| 00:14 |
iqualfragile |
VanessaE: yeah, i think i can manage that :D |
| 00:15 |
iqualfragile |
john_minetest: why? |
| 00:16 |
sapier |
VanessaE if mmdb would support files this would break minetest download |
| 00:17 |
sapier |
and of course it'd break trust in signed off versions |
| 00:17 |
VanessaE |
sapier: why? just have mmdb check that the supplied URL points to a downloadable file, and have it actually perform the download and store the file. |
| 00:17 |
VanessaE |
in other words, the mmdb should automatically do precisely what the uploader has to do manually |
| 00:17 |
sapier |
ok misunderstood this |
| 00:18 |
sapier |
as long as the file is stored in mmdb everything is fine |
| 00:18 |
VanessaE |
yues |
| 00:18 |
VanessaE |
yes, that's the theory. |
| 00:18 |
sapier |
ok good night ;-) |
| 00:18 |
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| 00:19 |
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| 00:19 |
iqualfragile |
john_minetest: not realy, still contains i.e. a link to the github repos |
| 00:19 |
iqualfragile |
mods without downloads are hidden in the client |
| 00:21 |
iqualfragile |
john_minetest: nah, its allright, they can be deleted if the actually turn out to be unused |
| 00:31 |
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| 00:35 |
VanessaE |
frak. |
| 00:38 |
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| 00:39 |
VanessaE |
RBA ping'd out. #224 against minetest_game is waiting on him. |
| 00:55 |
VanessaE |
make that #225... forgot to put the changes in their own branch..... https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/225 |
| 00:57 |
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| 01:06 |
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| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1037 |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a little helper function done by PilzAdam |
| 01:25 |
RealBadAngel |
can we have this merged? |
| 01:25 |
VanessaE |
minetest-game #225 depends on that ^^^ |
| 02:20 |
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| 03:03 |
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| 03:43 |
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| 04:00 |
OldCoder |
what version of irrlicht is presently recommended? |
| 04:10 |
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| 04:10 |
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| 04:48 |
thexyz |
OldCoder: 1.8 I think, it doesn't have issues with white inputs |
| 04:49 |
OldCoder |
thanks |
| 05:20 |
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| 16:57 |
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| 17:00 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1030 any core dev to agree to this one? |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:03 |
sapier |
rba you know more about opengl then me could mipmapping anisotrophic bilinear and trilinear be done as one or mor dropdowns? |
| 17:04 |
sapier |
I thought so john :-) |
| 17:10 |
VanessaE |
sapier: bi/tri could perhaps be made into a dropdown or radio buttons but the other two are theoretically independent. |
| 17:11 |
sapier |
saving a single element doesn't seem very helpfull to me |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:14 |
sapier |
can anisotrophic and bi/tri be used same time? |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
probably? |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
mipmap = far away textures don't look noisy |
| 17:15 |
sapier |
thought there can only be a single filter active same time? |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
mipmap+aniso = same, but far away textures do not look blurred or plain |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
mipmap+ainso+bilinear = nearby textures are smoothed |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
yes they can. |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
bi/tri are mostly for up-close stuff |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
nearmap+aniso+trilinear = see above? which difference does it have? |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
maybe trilinear is better smoothing of nearby textures |
| 17:17 |
sapier |
so anisotrophic is for far away things and bi/tri for close ones? |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
I think bi- is texture-based and tri- is texture+distance(angle) based |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I regularly use mip+aniso+tri together. |
| 17:19 |
sapier |
I still wonder if this is of any use ;-) |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
the only thing we don't have in that regard is some sort of proper scaling algorithm for distant objects with transparency |
| 17:19 |
sapier |
ok yes it is usefull |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
(e.g. glass, papyrus still look like shit in the distance) |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
by the way, how do you change the anisotropic filtering level? how do you know it, too? |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
by the way 2, it would be nice if there was a checkbox for anti-aliasing in the options menu |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
no clue. |
| 17:20 |
sapier |
but I'm gonna make bi and tri xor |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
sapier: yes. |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
or just make trilinear available |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
I don't see any use for bilinear filtering today |
| 17:21 |
sapier |
if I understood correct anisotrophic uses bi or tri |
| 17:21 |
sapier |
no idea what happens if you don't specify anything |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: some hardware may not perform well with trilinear, that's why I included both. |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
very, very old hardware :P |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
you can use aniso without bi/trilinear filtering, that's what I do |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
no noise on far away textures, but they still look detailed. |
| 17:25 |
sapier |
what's the exact error message? |
| 17:29 |
sapier |
no application should crash on broken remote data |
| 17:29 |
sapier |
isn't an excuse for unsafe code |
| 17:30 |
sapier |
I'll fix it ... it's my own code so noone misinterpret this as me accusing anyone else ;-) |
| 17:31 |
sapier |
a application shall never ever crash on invalid data ... it may show an error but not crash |
| 17:52 |
ShadowNinja |
Hmmm, any thoughts on the "Stack is over 30" crash? It seems to happen in a call to perlin:get2D. See https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=120604#p120604 (Only the --info log has this bug and is usefull) |
| 17:52 |
sapier |
did you check stack beeing popped correct? |
| 17:53 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: I haven't touched that code, but my table creation commit adds feilds to table, which become one entry on the stack by the time that function returns. |
| 17:53 |
ShadowNinja |
tables* |
| 17:55 |
ShadowNinja |
My errfunc commit is more likely to cause this, but I puped more things from the stack, not less. |
| 17:55 |
ShadowNinja |
poped* |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
I thing so but maybe something was missed |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
john new version shouldn't crash and provide error message |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
+instead |
| 18:01 |
|
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| 18:02 |
sapier |
I'd like to merge that one if there's an agreement and no further issues with it |
| 18:05 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Could the async API cause this? |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
if it happens in game then no async is menu only by now |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
are you guys really sure irrlicht is capable of applying bi/tri and anisotrophic same time? |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
sapier: positive. |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
I use all three at once, and each has a different effect on my hardware |
| 18:08 |
PilzAdam |
if bi- and trilinear filter are enabled irrlicht uses the trilinear one only |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
SMaterialLayer.h irrlicht header explains usage so yes both can be used same time |
| 18:08 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: he means using aniso + either of the two filters |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:17 |
VanessaE |
meanwhile: minetest #1037 and minetest_game #225 need attention. |
| 18:22 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Better: http://paste.progval.net/show/677/ |
| 18:23 |
ShadowNinja |
That way doesn't copy the whole nodedef. You just have to rmove a metatable. |
| 18:23 |
ShadowNinja |
(Or use setmetatable) |
| 18:24 |
PilzAdam |
Id prefere ShadowNinja's way |
| 18:24 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs - if it's better, okay |
| 18:24 |
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| 18:25 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: kinda ironic since you mostly initiated the pull-requested method :) |
| 18:26 |
PilzAdam |
its the simplest way from a mod point of view |
| 18:28 |
ShadowNinja |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/misc_register.lua#L153 That just has to be removed, but why was it added? |
| 18:29 |
PilzAdam |
this dissallows mods to accidentally modify the nodedefs at runtime |
| 18:29 |
VanessaE |
better? |
| 18:29 |
sapier |
it's overriding the __newindex method ... maybe it shouldn't be {} but nil |
| 18:31 |
kaeza |
it should be a function that calls error() |
| 18:32 |
VanessaE |
is #225 suitable now? |
| 18:32 |
kaeza |
setting it to {} makes the code edit a table without raising an error, and setting to nil makes it edit the original table |
| 18:33 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: Actually, it only prevents adding new fields, not modifying existing ones. |
| 18:33 |
kaeza |
^ also that |
| 18:33 |
PilzAdam |
thats a bug ;-) |
| 18:33 |
VanessaE |
in which case, #1037 is still needed. |
| 18:34 |
* VanessaE |
puts #225 back the way it was. |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:36 |
ShadowNinja |
And it creates a new metatable for each node. How can I chek if the game has started and the initialization phaze where node edits are allowed is over? |
| 18:36 |
PilzAdam |
minetest.after(0) is the first env step |
| 18:36 |
celeron55 |
the modstore should *really* support pageup, pagedown, scrollwheel and dragging of the scrollbar for scrolling |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
some of those is probably not possible but at least most should work |
| 18:37 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: +1000 |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
now it seems only the minisculous buttons work |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
nobody wants to press buttons for scrolling since 1980 |
| 18:38 |
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| 18:38 |
sapier |
there are two ways to make it work |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: the clone node method is needed then, since those grasses don't have a drops field defined. |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
new gui toolkit supporting containers |
| 18:39 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, then we just remove that metatable field |
| 18:40 |
PilzAdam |
it should work how ShadowNinja suggested it, no matter what needs to be changed to make it like this |
| 18:40 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: and watch as it breaks 100 other things? :) |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
generate mousewheel events as button clicks to create something that is similar to mousewheel |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
by the way is the modstore supposed to work? |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
yes |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
for me it has the slight problem that it doesn't work |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
only if curl is enabled of course |
| 18:42 |
celeron55 |
it appears to work, but no mods get installed while it says they're being installed |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
modpack or mod? |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
umm... actually, it works |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
really not installed or only button in modstore not changed? presence detection for modpacks is wrong |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
ok so the modpack issue |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
it's just hard to find a mod because the store page doesn't say the modname but the fancy name |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
then you go to the configuration page and be like "wtf is the name of whatever i just installed" |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
hmm it's diffucult to show all that information in that compact view |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
there's plenty of space above rating |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
not in search tab variant |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1030 |
| 18:45 |
ShadowNinja |
Should indexing a non-existant field be redirected to minetest.(node,tool,item)def_default? |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
sapier: maybe show it in the dialog that says it's installed? |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
that's possible yes |
| 18:45 |
PilzAdam |
ShadowNinja, no |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
"short name: <whatever>" |
| 18:46 |
sapier |
I'm adding it |
| 18:48 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: minetest.after/on_globalstep isn't really reliable though, as you can still modify the itemdef if your code runs before the game_started one. But I guess things in builtin will run first... |
| 18:52 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: Does this look good? http://ix.io/9fN |
| 18:53 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: Also this: http://ix.io/9fO |
| 18:53 |
PilzAdam |
dunno, Im not familiar with metatables |
| 18:53 |
VanessaE |
bah |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
way to overcomplicate it |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:06 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: What do you think of the above patches? |
| 19:06 |
kaeza |
ShadowNinja, look fine |
| 19:07 |
kaeza |
no wait |
| 19:07 |
kaeza |
the second one is plain wrong |
| 19:08 |
kaeza |
`table' is not on scope in alias_metatable.__index (actually, it refers to the `table' global, the table library) |
| 19:10 |
kaeza |
wait.. |
| 19:12 |
ShadowNinja |
minetest.after isn't available yet either, and neither is register_globalstep, and I can't rearange the order. :-( |
| 19:13 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: Right, fixed. |
| 19:13 |
kaeza |
also, __index should be function(self, name) |
| 19:14 |
ShadowNinja |
Yes, I forgot the table argument. |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:16 |
kaeza |
ShadowNinja, I think the second patch shouldn't be applied |
| 19:17 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: I don't know how I can do it, I need to set game_started without globalstep. |
| 19:18 |
kaeza |
no that first one is OK and should do what's intended |
| 19:19 |
kaeza |
by the time the after() callback is called, all mods should have been loaded |
| 19:20 |
kaeza |
so setting game_started there is the correct way |
| 19:20 |
kaeza |
the second one may cause problems, I'm looking into it |
| 19:25 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: No, after is in misc.lua, which depends on misc_register.lua. Cyclic dependencies. |
| 19:26 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: Second meaning the alias_metatable one? |
| 19:26 |
kaeza |
yes |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:26 |
ShadowNinja |
That one works correctly. |
| 19:27 |
kaeza |
oh well then |
| 19:28 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1037 |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: too late. |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
they're already discussing an alternative. |
| 19:28 |
RealBadAngel |
what alternative? |
| 19:29 |
kaeza |
ShadowNinja, to solve the cyclic dependency, you could move misc.lua sooner in the load order (in builtin.lua), but dunno if anything else may depend on it |
| 19:29 |
kaeza |
oh right... register |
| 19:30 |
kaeza |
in any case, what is the point of this patch again? |
| 19:30 |
kaeza |
is it worth the effort? |
| 19:32 |
ShadowNinja |
kaeza: Easy redefining of items. |
| 19:36 |
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| 19:38 |
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| 19:38 |
Jordach |
hello [PavelS] |
| 19:38 |
[PavelS] |
Jordach, Hello |
| 19:42 |
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| 19:45 |
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| 19:54 |
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| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
my/RBA's patches would have taken far less time to put into practice..... |
| 19:57 |
emptty |
I have the feeling that mods placed under CUSTOM_SHAREDIR are not found at runtime |
| 19:58 |
emptty |
I'm digging to see where the list of mods is parsed during startup. Could someone help me to get oriented in the code? |
| 19:59 |
sapier |
thegame |
| 19:59 |
sapier |
emptty do you do a run in place build? |
| 20:00 |
sapier |
if you do custom shareddir is ignored |
| 20:00 |
emptty |
nope, I try to make animal_pack working with the debian package :) |
| 20:00 |
sapier |
good idea :-) |
| 20:01 |
emptty |
the mobf package works and everything, but the minetest package does not see it for some reason |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
strange |
| 20:04 |
emptty |
the mods are installed under /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/minetest/mob_guard and such |
| 20:04 |
emptty |
I have -DCUSTOM_SHAREDIR=/usr/share/games/minetest \ |
| 20:05 |
sapier |
strange path |
| 20:05 |
emptty |
yeah, that's because when the FHS standard was created, back in the eighties, there were no games on unix machines |
| 20:05 |
VanessaE |
um...wut? [12-04 15:04] <VanessaE> position = (-2.14748e+06,-1.63842e+06,-4712) |
| 20:05 |
VanessaE |
when is this ever gonna be fixed? |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
[12-04 15:06] <twoelk> no wonder no client worked |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
he says he has no idea how he even got there in the first placde. |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
place* |
| 20:08 |
VanessaE |
the only thing I know that can send a person that far is a trampoline and he wasn't near one. |
| 20:14 |
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| 20:17 |
VanessaE |
in other words, why aren't player coords being clamped to +/- 31k? |
| 20:17 |
VanessaE |
and don't tell me its impossible. if you can move the player, you can clamp his coords. |
| 20:22 |
VanessaE |
and what about player files being re-saved all the fucking time? |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1030 Celeron55 is this successfull dialog ok? |
| 20:25 |
emptty |
I should increase debug_log_level to get more info? To what value to get it all? |
| 20:26 |
sapier |
I guess only way to find out is using debugger and step |
| 20:30 |
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| 20:32 |
emptty |
k, thanks |
| 20:39 |
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| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
22:07:44 < emptty> the mods are installed under /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/minetest/mob_guard and such |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
mods/gamename is not supported anymore, or is it? |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
i mean, mods/gameid |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
afaik, no. |
| 20:43 |
emptty |
so that should be /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/mob_guard and such (with /usr/share/games/minetest/ being path_share) ? |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
why are you putting mods in the game dir? |
| 20:45 |
emptty |
because I dunno what I'm doing |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
they belong in your homedir |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
~/.minetest/mods |
| 20:46 |
emptty |
they are in a package, installed with the system |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
ohh |
| 20:47 |
emptty |
(I'm building the package, actually) |
| 20:47 |
VanessaE |
well I guess in that case, it's right |
| 20:47 |
PilzAdam |
<emptty> so that should be /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/mob_guard and such (with /usr/share/games/minetest/ being path_share) ? <- yes |
| 20:47 |
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| 20:49 |
ShadowNinja |
emptty: mobf comes as a modpack, so it should be /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/mobf/mob_guard. With a modpack.txt in the mobf folder. |
| 20:50 |
ShadowNinja |
That way things stay organized and you don't end up with 500 folders in your mods folder. |
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| 20:53 |
ShadowNinja |
What do you think of adding a mod_data dir or similar? It would be used for settings and the like that are not world-specific. |
| 20:56 |
emptty |
ShadowNinja: what is the expected content of modpack.txt ? |
| 20:56 |
PilzAdam |
nothing, but it shouldnt start with a # |
| 20:56 |
PilzAdam |
*nothing special |
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| 20:59 |
emptty |
an empty file is ok? |
| 21:00 |
PilzAdam |
yep |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:06 |
emptty |
It still does not work for me |
| 21:07 |
emptty |
but as soon as I ` ln -s /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/mobf ~/.minetest/mods/ ` then it works |
| 21:07 |
emptty |
so, someone is not exploring path_share when looking for the installed mods |
| 21:13 |
emptty |
I think that src/script/lua_api/l_mainmenu.cpp line 681 is faulty |
| 21:14 |
emptty |
When builtin/modmgr.lua asks for the modpath, the engine only returns the user path |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
that's intended |
| 21:15 |
emptty |
But that prevents the lua world from retrieving the mods that are in the share path, right? |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
if I remember correct mods are read by a different mechanism |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
modpath returns user modifyable modpath shared folder isn't modifyable by user |
| 21:19 |
emptty |
that's true |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
ok you're right we only read mods from that folder ... guess there's a inconsistency to fix |
| 21:21 |
emptty |
So the bug is in lua? |
| 21:21 |
emptty |
It should check for shared mods too? |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
mod and moddependency within minetest are a real mess code paths and behaviour is spread throughout multiple files redundant and inconsistent |
| 21:21 |
emptty |
somewhere in modmgr.preparemodlist |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
imho minetest core should provide those information consistent for game startup as well as mainmenu but that's not a quick fix |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:24 |
emptty |
I must confess that I'm bit lost. I couldn't even fill a useful bug here |
| 21:25 |
sapier |
chances this will be fixed for 0.4.9 are minor but as I need that code for modstore dependency handling too it'll be most likely fixed in 0.4.10 |
| 21:26 |
emptty |
ok |
| 21:26 |
emptty |
I'll try to think of a solution on my side |
| 21:27 |
emptty |
I have the feeling that extending modmgr.preparemodlist with a call to get_mods("/usr/share/games/minetest/mods",global_mods) could help, regardless of how ugly it is |
| 21:28 |
sapier |
for your package maybe but a hardcoded path wont be added to minetest |
| 21:28 |
emptty |
I'll try later, I must now sleep |
| 21:28 |
emptty |
sure, that would be a local and temporary fix, waiting for a better solution |
| 21:29 |
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| 21:29 |
emptty |
thanks for your help |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
of course ;-) 9 10 11 12 .. ;-P |
| 21:30 |
sapier |
there's no rule version numbers are expected to be single digit |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
we'll forever be at 0.4 :/ |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
we're increasing _patch_ versions with very visible changes... does not make sense |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
no once we see no other way as breaking map format we will switch to 0.5 ;-) |
| 21:32 |
sapier |
we're not breaking api |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
increase major version number for that... |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
it's not a shame to have a version number like "4.8" |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
we're far from a serious 1.0.0 ;-) |
| 21:33 |
Calinou |
not really? |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
and imho majors are to be changed by celeron |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
and switching just because some people are frightened about an additional digit isn't a reason ;-) |
| 21:35 |
kaeza |
I can see a point in what Calinou said |
| 21:35 |
celeron55 |
everyone has a different view on what the version number should reflect |
| 21:35 |
Calinou |
all the core devs are on the same level |
| 21:35 |
Calinou |
even celeron55 himself said that he is not the ultimate dev :P |
| 21:35 |
kaeza |
the fact that it's mineTEST plus it being version < 1.0 makes it feel unpolished |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
it doesn't frighten me, but it does not make the most sense to increase patch versions for visible changes |
| 21:36 |
celeron55 |
kaeza: it's unpolished even if you called it mineprofessional 47.0 |
| 21:36 |
kaeza |
lol yes |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
i think there is no valid reason to raise the minor version until something meaningful is changed |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
eg. a change of gui toolkit would be a valid reason |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
or, really, we might have to do what linux did |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
just see that "oh we're just doing this incremental stuff without problems, call it x.0 then" |
| 21:40 |
celeron55 |
some people are going to interpret 1.0 as "it's now finished to an extent that it can be critically reviewed" |
| 21:41 |
sapier |
minetest is very very far from finished |
| 21:41 |
sapier |
we're basicaly rewriting core parts atm |
| 21:41 |
PilzAdam |
john_minetest, *for the engine |
| 21:43 |
celeron55 |
um |
| 21:44 |
celeron55 |
saying anything like that is just overly idealistic |
| 21:44 |
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| 21:44 |
sapier |
imho as long as we talking about critical design issues within core there's no chance for 1.0 |
| 21:44 |
PilzAdam |
there is no "Minetest" game, there is only Minetest the engine, and then that thing "minetest_game" |
| 21:45 |
celeron55 |
getting the minetest engine to "feature completeness" will take like 1000 years with current resources |
| 21:45 |
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| 21:46 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: if you think of it like that, then minetest should have been 1.0 some three years ago |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
imho once we managed to remove env/maplock and implemented client side lua we're close to a first 1.0 |
| 21:46 |
Calinou |
Minetest will never be finished, so that's normal |
| 21:47 |
kaeza |
is software in general ever finished? that's the greatest fallacy in the whole world |
| 21:47 |
celeron55 |
kaeza: it is if you never change the goals |
| 21:47 |
PilzAdam |
kaeza, my HelloWorld.java is finished |
| 21:47 |
celeron55 |
but the goals of minetest are not fixed |
| 21:47 |
celeron55 |
and probably never will be |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
official linux kernel version is 3.12 |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
there's no third digit in "calling name" of kernel |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: it's called the minor version |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
0.10 |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
0.11 |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
0.12 |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
lol |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
there are a lot of always four numbers :-) |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
minetest 0.210.4 |
| 21:50 |
kaeza |
0.1337 |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
the minor never ends! |
| 21:50 |
kaeza |
that will be teh release |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
but really instead of 0.210.4 it's probably going to be like 0.4.1890 |
| 21:51 |
kaeza |
maybe in like two universe timespans or so |
| 21:53 |
celeron55 |
anyway; it's stupid to set goals like "client-side scripting = 0.5" when nobody is even working towards that |
| 21:54 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: they should, because otherwise you don't know when to change the version |
| 21:55 |
sapier |
waht about setting goals that will result in a minor increase ? this way it's not set that e.g. client side lua is 0.5 it could be 0.6 too |
| 21:55 |
celeron55 |
sapier: so that adding any one of them will cause a minor increase? |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
that's what I meant yes |
| 21:56 |
celeron55 |
and then a new minor increase when some other of them is added later |
| 21:56 |
celeron55 |
it would work |
| 21:56 |
celeron55 |
you can make a suggested list of them |
| 21:57 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: the issue in what you are saying is that minor versions are *never* scheduled |
| 21:57 |
celeron55 |
only patch versions are scheduled like that |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
I assume finished mapgen v7 might be worth a minor increase too |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
anyway, it makes sense to say "minor version will be increased in any release that adds any of these: client-side lua, completely new map format, new gui toolkit, replaced 3d engine" |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
then there will be a 0.10 john_minetest |
| 21:59 |
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| 21:59 |
sapier |
that's what we seem to define right now |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
also on that list: tcp protocol, voxel-area entities |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
removed env lock |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
<major>.<minor>.<patch> ? |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
or <major>.<alwaysfour>.<minor> ;-P |
| 22:01 |
celeron55 |
it's major.minor.patch |
| 22:02 |
celeron55 |
this explains how to use them best for public APIs: http://semver.org/ |
| 22:02 |
celeron55 |
not directly applicable to a program |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
Guess we should add a wiki page with goals that will trigger a minor increase |
| 22:04 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: no, because we don't know what people get inspired to do |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
it's impossible to force work to be done on any single large feature |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
people just do what they care about |
| 22:05 |
sapier |
and someone may even write something major worth we haven't even thought about |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: it's fine |
| 22:05 |
sapier |
0.28.1 is perfectly ok |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
altough by that point i would have declared it to be 1.0 for sure |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
i mean, i'd basically consider well-working voxel area entities to be worth 1.0 |
| 22:07 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: they don't mean that; stop thinking that |
| 22:07 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: it's ridiculous that i even have to say this to you |
| 22:09 |
celeron55 |
versions are meant for keeping track of things; not for giving an impression of something to people |
| 22:10 |
celeron55 |
have you noticed that when you buy a game in a game series like "LOL GAME 3", it's actually LOL GAME 3 version 1.0.3.a.asd_0vd9suv |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
besides cacluclation of completion state is usually wrong to a degree it's not usefull at all |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
calculation |
| 22:15 |
sapier |
so because of firefox is version 102.1 we need to switch too? |
| 22:17 |
celeron55 |
when you're thinking how people perceive your versions instead of doing things that people actually care about, you're doing it wrong |
| 22:18 |
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| 22:19 |
celeron55 |
john_minetest: we don't know how far we are |
| 22:19 |
sapier |
john that's exactly what a version is ... we don't even know what is 100% |
| 22:20 |
celeron55 |
if i knew how far we were, i'd version minetest as "minetest X%" |
| 22:20 |
sapier |
I don't know how long wine was <1 ;-P |
| 22:20 |
celeron55 |
but we don't, so i don't |
| 22:21 |
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| 22:22 |
celeron55 |
http://www.nothings.org/stb_vorbis/#history |
| 22:22 |
celeron55 |
there's some versioning for 'ya |
| 22:23 |
celeron55 |
i think that's a cool way to do it |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
celeron did you have time to see the new "successfull dialog"? |
| 22:35 |
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| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja, kaeza, what is the disposition of #225/#1037? |
| 22:38 |
kaeza |
VanessaE, node2 is global, a `local' should be added (first line of func) |
| 22:38 |
kaeza |
(#1037) |
| 22:39 |
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| 22:39 |
kaeza |
also `node' |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
oh |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
so you aren't gonna do the other method you and ShadowNinja were discussing? |
| 22:41 |
ShadowNinja |
Well... It was impossible the way that I was doing it. |
| 22:41 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 22:43 |
kaeza |
VanessaE, also, #225 has some issues with indentation after the clone_node() call |
| 22:43 |
kaeza |
other than that I don't see anything wrong |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
that indentation is intentional. |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
I use the clone_node() call as the opening of the stanza, and the register_node() call as the closer, as in a begin/end |
| 22:45 |
kaeza |
oh okay then :P |
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