| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
PilzAdam |
it seems to happen when a sapling hangs on the edge of a node (see screenshot) |
| 00:00 |
PilzAdam |
you can litteraly watch the stack growing up |
| 00:08 |
hmmmm |
mmm.. |
| 00:09 |
hmmmm |
just realized, papyrus doesn't generate in mapgen v6 if water_level != 0 |
| 00:09 |
hmmmm |
hardcoding and assuming all these things, jeez |
| 00:10 |
PilzAdam |
we are switching to register_decoration() anyway |
| 00:11 |
hmmmm |
one question; what do you think about decorating the bottom of the ocean? |
| 00:11 |
Exio |
with what? |
| 00:11 |
hmmmm |
*shrug* |
| 00:11 |
Exio |
:P |
| 00:12 |
hmmmm |
maybe somebody came up with a mod that places starfish or kelp or something |
| 00:12 |
kahrl |
sunken ships |
| 00:13 |
kahrl |
should underwater plants be made in a way that makes them not air pockets? |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
obviously |
| 00:14 |
khonkhortisan |
and not just underwater, but any liquid |
| 00:14 |
Exio |
i wonder how without hacks |
| 00:14 |
hmmmm |
you say that like the solution is obvious |
| 00:14 |
hmmmm |
is the content at that node water, or is it the decoration? |
| 00:15 |
khonkhortisan |
Fluid properties could be added to the decoration, and render both, but tiles are needed for both. |
| 00:15 |
hmmmm |
btw if you can solve this in an elegant manner, we'd have another one up on minecraft. they don't have anything of the sort either. |
| 00:15 |
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| 00:17 |
diemartin |
hmmmm, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4627 |
| 00:19 |
hmmmm |
i'm assuming he did that with a nodebox, and making it an alternative liquid? |
| 00:19 |
hmmmm |
either way, if we can make what that guy is doing in the mod not-glitchy, there'd be a solution |
| 00:22 |
PilzAdam |
this mod has other 1000 lines of nodeboxes |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
yeah but nevermind that, how does it merge with the water nodes? |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
i am not seeing anything special |
| 00:25 |
PilzAdam |
ok, its a normal node where the nodeboxes is higher than the actual node |
| 00:26 |
PilzAdam |
the plant is above the actual node |
| 00:26 |
Exio |
offtopic-about-minetest_game, am i the only here who thinks the grass, flowers and dry shrub should be dig_immediate? |
| 00:26 |
Exio |
(buildable_to nodes) |
| 00:27 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, its a hack |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
is this feature wanted enough to make it not a hack? |
| 00:28 |
PilzAdam |
I dont need it |
| 00:45 |
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| 01:50 |
VanessaE |
Exio: very little improvement for me, at least not in that one "bad" area on my server's map. +4 FPS perhaps |
| 01:50 |
VanessaE |
(running latest git with your patch already merged per kahrl) |
| 01:50 |
Exio |
aw |
| 01:51 |
VanessaE |
CEnv: num of objects....... 477 !? |
| 01:51 |
VanessaE |
where?? |
| 01:53 |
hmmmm |
:D i found a nyancat |
| 01:54 |
VanessaE |
CM: blocks occlusion culled: 0. um ? |
| 01:54 |
hmmmm |
vanessa's seed, 305, -1544 |
| 01:55 |
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| 01:55 |
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| 01:55 |
VanessaE |
oops. |
| 01:55 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: kacey found one at about -329,-188,-571 |
| 01:56 |
Exio |
aw damn |
| 01:56 |
Exio |
got trapped with sand |
| 01:59 |
VanessaE |
Exio: your change did help marginally, like I said about +4fps |
| 02:00 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f18b4872ea7e46b50c9ea0e5e6484baae41b0a44 |
| 02:02 |
Exio |
i just did what the comment said |
| 02:03 |
* VanessaE |
watches num of objects creep up.. +200 since I mentioned it a few mins ago, and I'm just standing here. |
| 02:03 |
VanessaE |
(now 734) |
| 02:04 |
Exio |
is it just client-side? |
| 02:04 |
VanessaE |
beat me. |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
beats* |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
882 now. |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
and my fps is dropping accordingly. |
| 02:06 |
Exio |
any local-mod for reproduce it? |
| 02:06 |
Exio |
(you know, my network is shit) |
| 02:06 |
VanessaE |
Exio: there are only four mods on my server that make entities, that I know of - simple mobs, item_drop (technic), pipeworks, and signs |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
only the signs entities are visible from where I'm standing. |
| 02:08 |
VanessaE |
well O tjoml ot |
| 02:09 |
VanessaE |
er.. |
| 02:09 |
kahrl |
default makes entities (items) |
| 02:09 |
* VanessaE |
moves her hands to the right keys |
| 02:09 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: I mean actively, as part of normal play |
| 02:09 |
VanessaE |
well I think the cause of my low fps is pretty obvious: too many entities and lack of effective hidden block culling |
| 02:10 |
VanessaE |
with a view range of 50, it manages to cull exactly one "block" (I assume a mapblock) |
| 02:10 |
Exio |
i would like a way to reproduce it locally :/ |
| 02:10 |
VanessaE |
Exio: download my server's map and game from the form page. |
| 02:10 |
VanessaE |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4057 |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
size? |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
4TB? ;P |
| 02:11 |
VanessaE |
then teleport to -310,19,-421 |
| 02:11 |
VanessaE |
heh no about 990 MB for the map and about 14MB for the game |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
1gb |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
that is like 2 days with this network, sadly |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
s/like/about/ |
| 02:12 |
Exio |
(yes, i like offtopic) |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
number of objects is now 1029 and I haven't moved from this spot since I signed onto the server. |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
I seem to lose about 1 fps per 100 objects |
| 02:15 |
Exio |
VanessaE: can i have your debug.txt 'of that'? |
| 02:16 |
VanessaE |
the server's debug log, you mean? |
| 02:16 |
Exio |
i want to check the infostream, so yes :P |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
sure, I |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
I |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
damn it. |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
I'll upload it in a sec. |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
1177 objects now, and my fps is down by 10 now. |
| 02:19 |
VanessaE |
holy...it's a god-awful big file |
| 02:20 |
VanessaE |
4.1 GB for the log file alone |
| 02:20 |
Exio |
rm |
| 02:20 |
Exio |
and reproduce it other time :P |
| 02:20 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
deleted the log and restarted the server. |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
client shows 541 objects now. |
| 02:23 |
Exio |
wait a bit, until it gets 600 or 650 or so |
| 02:23 |
Exio |
then post it :P |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
sure. |
| 02:24 |
Exio |
thanks |
| 02:25 |
VanessaE |
flew around a bit and loaded up all of the map that would be visible from where I am standing now (but no more than that). fps is peaking 31 where it used to do about 23-ish |
| 02:26 |
Exio |
i would call that part of your map the FPS killer |
| 02:26 |
VanessaE |
yes, indeed so |
| 02:26 |
Exio |
if you survive 10 minutes inside that zone, you win a prize :D |
| 02:26 |
VanessaE |
standing at the spawn, looking down the north road from the left side of the road. |
| 02:28 |
Exio |
what about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/539? |
| 02:29 |
VanessaE |
I walked forward a bit to examine a sign up ahead, then returned to the spawn. 816 objects now. |
| 02:29 |
Exio |
kahrl / hmmmm: ^ |
| 02:29 |
hmmmm |
no idea exio, not really my area... |
| 02:29 |
Exio |
but, what do you think? |
| 02:30 |
hmmmm |
why not |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
damn it. bad ownership on the log file after 'touch'. had to start over. |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
(it didn't create a log for that +300 object jump) |
| 02:31 |
VanessaE |
Exio: I have no objection to that. |
| 02:32 |
Exio |
aw |
| 02:33 |
VanessaE |
ok, it's creating a log now :-) |
| 02:33 |
VanessaE |
loaded up all of the relevant area of the map, started with 555 objects, and pushing about 30 fps. |
| 02:35 |
VanessaE |
walked over to the same area to check out the same signs, then a bit beyond, and returned to the spawn. 705 objects now. |
| 02:35 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/debug-server.txt |
| 02:35 |
Exio |
downloading |
| 02:36 |
VanessaE |
this time it's "only" 5MB |
| 02:36 |
VanessaE |
wow, 1MB per minute of uptime. :D |
| 02:38 |
VanessaE |
obviously the signs entities are the ones being duplicated |
| 02:39 |
VanessaE |
(there are a couple dozen such signs in the area) |
| 02:40 |
Exio |
i don't get how the entities will be duplicating only client-sidely |
| 02:40 |
VanessaE |
no clue at all. |
| 02:41 |
Exio |
as that is in the serverthread... |
| 02:42 |
VanessaE |
want the client's log too? |
| 02:42 |
Exio |
unless it is 40 gb, yes :P |
| 02:42 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 02:42 |
VanessaE |
I'll edit out all but the last session :-) |
| 02:43 |
VanessaE |
holy.. |
| 02:43 |
VanessaE |
2GB for that bastard |
| 02:43 |
VanessaE |
perhaps..I should redo that one also |
| 02:43 |
Exio |
ha |
| 02:45 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/debug-client.txt |
| 02:45 |
VanessaE |
enough to see it rise from 550 to 700-and-change |
| 02:47 |
VanessaE |
22:44:50: INFO[main]: ClientEnvironment::addActiveObject(): added (id=5441) <--- WHAT!? |
| 02:48 |
VanessaE |
surely that doesn't mean it created and/or destroyed that many objects? |
| 02:50 |
* VanessaE |
updates the downloads of her game and world files (just in case the existing ones are too old) |
| 03:32 |
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| 05:31 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: after clearing objects, ad signing out/in, I'm getting 40-47 fps at the spawn, using the modified game (and already two sheep have re-spawned and are walking around) |
| 05:31 |
VanessaE |
and* |
| 05:38 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: started a new world as requested, still with the all-nodeboxes-replaced-with-cubed modified game, view range of 50, flew around a bit to get a good amount of generated land, blocks occlusion culled is still 0. If I turn the view range up, it starts exceeding 0. Exceeds 10 at a view range of 90, exceeds 100 at a view range of 220. |
| 05:40 |
VanessaE |
there is only 1 object in the loaded region, and with a view range of 100 I can still get 25 fps even with lots of large trees in view (if I turn away from them, fps shoots up into the high 50's) |
| 05:42 |
* VanessaE |
heads off to bed. |
| 05:43 |
hmmmm |
wow this is freaking amazing |
| 05:43 |
hmmmm |
exio, you're the one who fixed that re-calculation, right? |
| 05:44 |
hmmmm |
minetest is running a solid 7-13 fps faster for me, i'm hitting 50 fps no problem |
| 05:44 |
hmmmm |
this has gotta be the single biggest enhancement in a while |
| 05:47 |
hmmmm |
this is awesome.. people ought to be able to experience this right away |
| 05:48 |
hmmmm |
i'm going to finish up decorationdef at least to the schematic, and then move trees and what not over to that, and i think we need to make an 0.4.8 release |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
anything else big currently cooking? |
| 05:54 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: thexyz is working on rebasing db_backends_2. |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
i'd wait for that, but i really feel like this is enough of a reason alone for people to update |
| 05:55 |
hmmmm |
(and then on top of that is other performance boosters and bugfixes) |
| 05:58 |
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| 05:59 |
thexyz |
ShadowNinja: sadly, I don't have much time those days |
| 06:57 |
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lrh9 |
Hello. |
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| 12:55 |
Exio |
the line i removed was just doing what a comment said.. |
| 12:55 |
Exio |
:P |
| 12:58 |
PilzAdam |
ok, this duplaction of saplings and decayed apples seems to be something new |
| 12:59 |
PilzAdam |
I found two "stacks" in my singleplayer world too |
| 13:07 |
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| 13:10 |
rubenwardy |
This would be awesome: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum//viewtopic.php?t=16037 |
| 13:10 |
rubenwardy |
It is a portal scene node |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
you could add a draw type "portal" and a portal is drawn instead of transparency |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
portal location is defined by setmeta("portal","0,0,0") |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
any thoughts? |
| 13:14 |
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| 16:50 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/774 MirceaKitsune (indirectly) suggested changeing set_animation prototype to avoid having a new function this obviously requires changeing protocol too. Any oppinions to doing it this way? Except of compatibility problems I don't see any issue with this but this is a decision that should be based on more than 2 oppinions |
| 16:55 |
Taoki |
sapier: I think it shouldn't require changing protocol, since we wouldn't add any new parameters. We just have to make sure that leaving the other parameters to nil works |
| 16:55 |
Taoki |
eg: set_animation( , 10, ) |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
we do add a new parameter |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
base_velocity |
| 16:55 |
Taoki |
Ah |
| 16:55 |
Taoki |
What is that for? |
| 16:56 |
Taoki |
There already is one for animation speed |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
yes but this is the speed the animation is played |
| 16:56 |
Taoki |
Sure. What would the other one do though? |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
compare it to slow motion normal fast forward ... |
| 16:57 |
Taoki |
I still don't understand |
| 16:57 |
sapier |
the base velocity specifies which object speed matches the animation at (default) animation rate |
| 16:57 |
Taoki |
We have a parameter for animation speed. Why would we need 2? |
| 16:57 |
Taoki |
ah... |
| 16:57 |
Taoki |
A builtin way to change animation speed vased on object velocity? |
| 16:57 |
Taoki |
eg: For walk animations to match the walking speed? |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
yes but not only builtin but client does already predict the new animation rate while objects velocity changes |
| 16:58 |
Taoki |
I see |
| 16:59 |
sapier |
server doesn't have to update animation speed if velocity changes |
| 16:59 |
Taoki |
Well firstly, how much is that needer right now? There's not much acceleration /. deceleration so I'm not sure if such a change would be very visible |
| 16:59 |
sapier |
this doesn't work reasonably well due to network latency |
| 16:59 |
Taoki |
Sure, doing that over network would be sotyl |
| 16:59 |
Taoki |
**costly |
| 16:59 |
Taoki |
But how much does this improve anything visually? |
| 16:59 |
sapier |
it's one of main graphical glitches for mobf mobs which do smooth speed changes |
| 17:00 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 17:00 |
sapier |
improovement is drastical as mobs don't seem to slide through landscape |
| 17:00 |
Taoki |
Yeah, sounds like a new parameter would be needed then... specifying how much velocity is applied to the animation. But I still agree it should be part of set_animation and not a new function |
| 17:00 |
sapier |
of course this depends on animation quality |
| 17:00 |
Taoki |
And such would require bumping the protocol version |
| 17:00 |
Taoki |
There would be another way, but rather hacky and I doubt anyone would agree |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:01 |
sapier |
sending two messages for one setting isn't an option thats not even a hack ;-) |
| 17:02 |
Taoki |
I was thinking animation speed could have a negative value to indicate it's influenced by velocity. But that would suck so no |
| 17:02 |
sapier |
that wouldn't tell you how animation is related to objects speed |
| 17:03 |
sapier |
e.g. if someone specifies very high detailed animations 1block/s could be 100 frames |
| 17:03 |
Taoki |
Yah. A new parameter should be added then I think |
| 17:03 |
Taoki |
It should be ok to simply bump the protocol version up |
| 17:03 |
Taoki |
I think. Best to ask PilzAdam to be safe |
| 17:04 |
sapier |
that's why I post it here to get some more oppinions to this issue :-) |
| 17:06 |
Taoki |
That's good. Sadly I don't know exactly what would need to be done, other than the protocol version must be bumped and documented |
| 17:07 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Are you there? |
| 17:08 |
sapier |
I know what needs to be done it's only typework but I don't want to change it just to realize the old version is the one to add ;-) |
| 17:09 |
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| 17:16 |
hmmmm |
yes? |
| 17:16 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Hi. |
| 17:17 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: I wanted to ask you about something regarding mapgen v7. There's a feature that would be really awesome and useful if you wish to consider adding it... |
| 17:18 |
Taoki |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=95397#p95397 |
| 17:19 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Basically, I'm wondering if you could add support for rendering multiple layers of ground levels vertically. So that we could divide the world and add more realms past a certain height (like how Minecraft has the Nether and The End, as different realms in the same world) |
| 17:19 |
hmmmm |
we decided against realms already |
| 17:19 |
Taoki |
When and why? |
| 17:19 |
sapier |
"The world size of Minetest is painfully small I agree" ???? |
| 17:19 |
hmmmm |
divisions in height are the way to go, because they're much easier to implement and don't require rewriting everything |
| 17:19 |
sapier |
32k blocks? |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Yes, that's what I'm suggesting in the last post. Thought that's what you meant the team decided against |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
I suggested that in the first post, but like everyone said it would be hard to do |
| 17:20 |
hmmmm |
i already am going to do this |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
So now I'm suggesting just that; Dividing past a certain height and generating a new world there |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
Awesome! |
| 17:20 |
hmmmm |
we'll call a large region of height a realm |
| 17:20 |
hmmmm |
each realm has a collection of biomes |
| 17:21 |
sapier |
hmmmm you should add a "get_ground_level(pos)" function in that case |
| 17:21 |
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| 17:21 |
hmmmm |
i mentioned early on that get_ground_level is going to be more difficult to implement well |
| 17:22 |
hmmmm |
i think we're sticking with passing an approximate range to look through |
| 17:22 |
sapier |
yes but if there are multiple layers you need that function |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:22 |
Taoki |
My thought was that we could have a Lua parameter specifying how many realms you have. When that parameter is larger than 1 (therefore there are more worlds), the world boundaries are divided vertically and each squeezed / treated like a different realm. |
| 17:22 |
sapier |
lua parameter? |
| 17:22 |
sapier |
I guess this should be a world parameter |
| 17:22 |
hmmmm |
it'd have to be a lua parameter |
| 17:22 |
Taoki |
sapier: So each game (eg: minetest_game) can define how many realms they have and what biomes each use |
| 17:22 |
Jordach |
you can divide 31000 into 10 different realms with 3100on y |
| 17:23 |
sapier |
why lua? is number of worlds adjustable while a game is running? |
| 17:23 |
hmmmm |
taoki, i'm not worrying over details at the moment, but they are definitely not going to be uniformly divided like that |
| 17:23 |
Taoki |
Alright. That's ok if they do work :) |
| 17:24 |
hmmmm |
anyway |
| 17:24 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Another suggestion for this feature (which I'm not sure the mapgen can do but asking either way) is to block seeing and walking between realms. So if you either fly all the way up or dog too much down, you don't pop into the other realm. And instead see everything stop loading like you do currently when you reach world bounds |
| 17:24 |
Taoki |
But that might have to be implemented separately |
| 17:24 |
hmmmm |
a "realm" will be defined as a range in height |
| 17:25 |
Taoki |
Since well, we wouldn't want the risk of digging down so much or flying up so high you get to the other realm :P |
| 17:25 |
Taoki |
nice |
| 17:25 |
hmmmm |
each "realm" gets its own generateTerrain(), and its own collection of biomes |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
so there'll be the overworld "realm", the aether "realm" which will be positive 3d noise (the floating islands), probably occuring around 7000 or so |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
below the overworld will be the "mantle" realm which is basically just a bunch of large sheets of iron blocks and lava sources and things like that |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
then underneath that is the nether |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
so you can see the need for separate generateTerrain() functions, since they each do something quite different |
| 17:27 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Are all those going to be hard coded however? I was hoping that Lua could define if there are multiple realms, the height of this one and the biome set |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
they're gonna have to be hard coded. |
| 17:28 |
Taoki |
ok. That's not really the feature I was thinking of them :/ |
| 17:28 |
sapier |
why do they have to be hardcoded? |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
because they're components of the mapgen |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
so unless you want to define the mapgen in lua ... |
| 17:29 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: But couldn't Lua define where each type of mapgen is used (between which heights)? And allow defining any set? |
| 17:29 |
hmmmm |
i honestly cannot see the point in that |
| 17:29 |
hmmmm |
i mean, sure, i guess you can define where they are and if they occur or whatever |
| 17:29 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: It would allow any game to define its own set of realms and setup it sees fit |
| 17:30 |
hmmmm |
but you won't be able to actually change it |
| 17:30 |
Taoki |
I'm actually thinking of using that |
| 17:30 |
sapier |
but mapgen could use a generation range couldn't it? |
| 17:30 |
Taoki |
That's what I'm thinking |
| 17:30 |
hmmmm |
i'm saying that you wouldn't be able to change the method of generation |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
that means the aether is still going to be floating islands generated in the same way, the most you'll be able to do is define between which heights it spawns and if it spawns at all |
| 17:31 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Main feature I'm suggesting is the ability to define diggerent ground levels and ranges at different heights. So the mapgen can eg: generate a land at height 1000 just like it does at height 0. Using the same noise function etc |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
and of course the blocks and whatever, but that's a given with the current infrastructure |
| 17:31 |
sapier |
yes hmmmm but you could specify the generation mode as world parameter |
| 17:32 |
Taoki |
Same way you explore the normal existng world. Just replicate the same generation rules at some very big heights |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
sapier, if you mean you want to define another "nether-like" realm, then of course |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
you can define as many of those as you'd like |
| 17:32 |
sapier |
no I was more thinking about games wanting different realms or even only a single one |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
you can do that too |
| 17:33 |
sapier |
if it's hardcoded how? |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
that detail wouldn't be hardcoded |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
what would be hardcoded is the generation technique |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
you'd have a limited selection of things like "nether-like" and "aether-like" and "regular terrain-like" |
| 17:34 |
sapier |
what is meant by "generation technique" maybe this is just a matter of understanding |
| 17:34 |
sapier |
ok and specify which realm uses what technique in world settings? |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 17:34 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: So imagining the existing world. The ground level is usually at height 15 - 20, and water level at height 0. As you explore, new hills mountains etc. are generated at this height. My idea is a Lua parameter to allow doing the same high in the sky. So at height 1000 there would be a new water level, the ground level would usually be around height 1020, and so on |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
and then specify different biomes for different techniques? |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
here's the complicated factor |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
uninstall a mod, the terrain becomes inconsistent |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
there's a reason why i did what i did with putting noise parameters in map_meta.txt |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
hmmmm that happens atm too |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
and people are okay with this???? |
| 17:36 |
Taoki |
If you uninstall a mod that contained terrain block definitions, it's logical you have to delete that world too :P |
| 17:36 |
sapier |
uninstalling mods always gives negative results sometimes bigger sometimes less big |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
you can redefine them just as easily |
| 17:36 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: The mod uninstallation issue? Sure! It's the server admin's fault if he used block definitions for teerrain he now has to take down |
| 17:36 |
Taoki |
That's good too |
| 17:37 |
sapier |
i don't think that problem can be fixed by engine at all |
| 17:37 |
hmmmm |
my problem is that once it's generated, it's generated and the damage is done |
| 17:37 |
hmmmm |
you can re-enable a mod and have the unknown nodes back again |
| 17:37 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, since we have this per world mod system now it would be ok to let mods define it |
| 17:37 |
Taoki |
yeah |
| 17:37 |
sapier |
yes and where's the problem? if an artist cuts his stone block wrong damage is done |
| 17:38 |
sapier |
no way to glue it back without lots of additional work ;-) |
| 17:38 |
hmmmm |
i would be more okay with this if we had a good way to forcefully regenerate blocks |
| 17:38 |
sapier |
hmm what about world_drop(min,max) |
| 17:38 |
Taoki |
A system to delete and re-generate specific parts of the world would be great. But can be a different feature for later on |
| 17:38 |
Taoki |
sapier: Yep, that |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
sapier, what's that, trim the world to a specified bounding box? |
| 17:39 |
sapier |
no that should drop every block within min,max |
| 17:39 |
Taoki |
That's a common issue in Minecraft. There are those servers that have huge cities people worked on. Then they all get deleted because a new version of MC came which adds new stuff to the mapgen, which the existing world can't get |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:40 |
hmmmm |
I think there should be both behaviors |
| 17:40 |
sapier |
return value would be exact coordinates of block boundaries beeing dropped as it's quite unrealistic user will exactly hit those |
| 17:40 |
hmmmm |
taoki, i believe there is a way to have new ores added to old blocks |
| 17:40 |
Taoki |
With such a function, epople wouldn't have to delete their cities... just the unexplored areas and let those regenerate :) |
| 17:40 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, what about hashing the most relevant variables for world creation and check if it matchs the current setup at each startup |
| 17:40 |
Taoki |
Nice, didn't know that |
| 17:41 |
sapier |
this problem isn't limited to ores |
| 17:41 |
hmmmm |
pilzadam, i think it might be okay if there's a way to have blocks regenerated |
| 17:41 |
sapier |
every mod using on_generated has same problem |
| 17:41 |
PilzAdam |
but where do you know wich blocks you have regenerate? |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
easy |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
generate the whole chunk |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
only blit to blocks full of content ignore |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
or isDummy |
| 17:42 |
PilzAdam |
I guess this problem would be trivial to fix if we had this "only save modified blocks" feature |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
we should do that too sometime |
| 17:43 |
sapier |
hmm isn't threre a dirty flag used for network transmission? could this be used for saving too? |
| 17:43 |
hmmmm |
i wouldn't know. |
| 17:44 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Anyway, here's a better example as to why I'm suggesting de-hardcoding realms to Lua: Let's say I make a game type where I want players to go between Earth, Mars and a Moon realm. In all 3 cases, the ground would be generated by the same mapgen type, only different biomes. But you'd need to define it to run at 3 heights for each |
| 17:44 |
PilzAdam |
anyone objects: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/743 ? |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
i think the only 'dirty' flag is being not present in the sent blocks set |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
pilzadam, i thought that was merged a while ago |
| 17:45 |
PilzAdam |
it was blocked because 0.4.7 freeze |
| 17:46 |
Taoki |
But yeah, I hope you consider this for v7. Would be really useful for some ideas :) |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
i think for a moon mod it'd be cool if there were multiple aether-like realms defined |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
and they're just huge blobs of 3d noise with a *very* large spread factor |
| 17:47 |
Jordach |
at least we have an *actual* sky biome before the leading product |
| 17:47 |
Taoki |
Aether = floatlands? |
| 17:47 |
hmmmm |
i guess |
| 17:47 |
hmmmm |
it's going to look a lot nicer than the floatlands thing |
| 17:48 |
Taoki |
Ok. Wouldn't work for a moon or mars realm in that case, since those would have to be constant ground just like the normaal world's surface (not floating islands) |
| 17:48 |
Taoki |
Hence why mapgen would need to allow re-running the ground generator at another height |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
then in that case |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
nether, with the air blocks replaced with solid blocks, and solid blocks == air |
| 17:49 |
Jordach |
common sense right there |
| 17:49 |
Taoki |
I... don't know how that would look either |
| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
how about you not worry about how something looks when it's far, far from completion |
| 17:50 |
Taoki |
I tend to imagine something like it's already there a lot of the time :P |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
i know people have big ideas but i'd rather just focus on getting things done instead of yapping away about some far off features |
| 17:51 |
Taoki |
True... there's more important things to finish on v7 now. Although it might help to discuss such features early before the code gets more complex |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
sort of reminds me of something a futurologist would do.. you know, the kind of people fascinated with home automation, flying cars and the like |
| 17:51 |
Taoki |
heh, that sounds like me too :) |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
and they don't shut up about THE SINGULARITY |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
kurzweil basically |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:52 |
random_esrdxctfg |
hi. any specific reason why boost is never used? |
| 17:53 |
PilzAdam |
random_esrdxctfg, what boost? |
| 17:54 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/778 <- what about that? the format isnt "wrong", but it restores the old behaviour |
| 17:54 |
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| 17:54 |
PilzAdam |
(an earlier commmit changed it a bit) |
| 17:54 |
proller |
lib<with<tons>of<templates<shit>>>>> |
| 17:57 |
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| 17:57 |
sweetbomberfdgdf |
/nickserv ghost sweetbomber |
| 17:58 |
PilzAdam |
is the license compatible with LGPL? |
| 18:01 |
ShadowNinja |
sweetbomber: Make sure to type identify commands and such into the status window. |
| 18:04 |
sweetbomber |
ShadowNinja: lol, i was lazy. almost leaked my pass. ty anyway |
| 18:15 |
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| 19:45 |
hmmmm |
pilzadam, don't really have anything against it..... |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: that fix should be pushed, though plants_lib has already been patched to avoid it per your pull request |
| 19:48 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, yes, that commit is unrelated to any "compatibility" problems; its just a comsetic fix |
| 19:52 |
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| 19:52 |
lrh9 |
Hello. |
| 19:53 |
PilzAdam |
lrh9, this channel is not for "Hello", go to #minetest |
| 19:55 |
kaeza |
nice way to greet newcomers |
| 19:55 |
hmmmm |
kinda says in the topic, "chit chat goes to #minetest" |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
agreed. This channel is for core development discussion but saying "hi" doesn't constitute chit-chat. |
| 19:56 |
PilzAdam |
he did it already several times |
| 19:56 |
PilzAdam |
without anything useful |
| 19:56 |
hmmmm |
i saw him yesterday, true |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
so? |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
how does that detract from the conversation -- especially right now when the channel barely had anything going on>? |
| 19:57 |
hmmmm |
it's just kind of irritating |
| 19:57 |
hmmmm |
personally i'd just ignore it though |
| 19:57 |
PilzAdam |
I get highlighted for each message here, switching away from what Im doing to just see a "hi" isnt really good |
| 19:57 |
kaeza |
then configure your client? |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: then fix your IRC client not to highlight you unless someone says your name. |
| 19:58 |
hmmmm |
that must be the single most annoying irc client ever |
| 19:58 |
PilzAdam |
I configured it to highlight me on each message and I dont want to change that |
| 19:58 |
PilzAdam |
because I expect messages here to be important for development |
| 19:58 |
VanessaE |
then don't complain if you get irritated at every little message that comes across. |
| 19:58 |
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| 19:59 |
PilzAdam |
we should add ""How's it going?" = generally a /kick" back into the topic |
| 19:59 |
VanessaE |
no, we should not. |
| 19:59 |
VanessaE |
being an asshole is not a prerequisite for being a core dev. |
| 20:00 |
hmmmm |
other FOSS project -dev channels aren't like that |
| 20:00 |
sapier |
no we're way to nice compared to other foss projects ;-P |
| 20:00 |
hmmmm |
yeah that's true. but they wouldn't kick you for saying hi |
| 20:01 |
sapier |
true too I didn't want to support pilzadams oppinion with what I said |
| 20:01 |
sapier |
btw I haven't asked for formspec mainmenu to be added today .... done :-) |
| 20:02 |
PilzAdam |
sapier, is that dynamic_cast thing fixed? |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
it doesn't occur anymore :-) |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
fix has to be done in gentoo/irrlicht depending who you ask |
| 20:03 |
Exio |
is that patched in archlinux? |
| 20:03 |
Exio |
i mean, they are pretty vanilla too |
| 20:03 |
PilzAdam |
I kinda agree what you have said some time ago: We cant find all bugs when we keep it seperated, so merge it now and test things in upstream |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
i don't have any Idea but fedora suse redhat debian all fix it |
| 20:05 |
hmmmm |
am i the only one who does this: |
| 20:05 |
sapier |
pilzadam that was before someone brought up an early 0.4.8 release ... mainmenu needs some time to get fixed completely so if 0.4.8 is in e.g. 2 weeks that's not best thing to do |
| 20:05 |
hmmmm |
when i am punching out code, i just put a placeholder for writing an error message because it takes too long to think of something helpful and informative |
| 20:06 |
hmmmm |
for example, errorstream << "DecoSchematic::resolveNodeNames: blahblah" << std::endl; //////////////// |
| 20:06 |
PilzAdam |
sapier, I havent heard anything of an "early 0.4.8 release" |
| 20:06 |
hmmmm |
pilzadam, i brought up the idea yesterday. |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
someone wrote that related to that big performance fix |
| 20:07 |
PilzAdam |
must have missed it in the logs |
| 20:07 |
hmmmm |
exio's patch is pretty amazing and i feel that the players ought to have that right away |
| 20:07 |
Exio |
the big performance fix is just removing a line that was explicity-said is useless |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
obviously it's useless and harmfull |
| 20:07 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, you should grep through the code and search more of those ;-) |
| 20:08 |
hmmmm |
minetest would be smooth as butter now if only that choppiness spike was fixed |
| 20:09 |
sapier |
choppiness spike? |
| 20:09 |
hmmmm |
i think it happens in the render thread, but i can't be sure. |
| 20:09 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, if you really want to release 0.4.8 that fast then at least finish the decoration stuff (i.e. add it to indev mapgen too) and use it in minetest_game |
| 20:09 |
hmmmm |
yeah, every half second |
| 20:09 |
hmmmm |
PilzAdam, that's the current plan. |
| 20:10 |
PilzAdam |
and we need to ask other devs, I am undecided |
| 20:10 |
sapier |
but plz add the mainmenu right after release ... the formspec improvement comming along with it are very very usefull |
| 20:10 |
hmmmm |
btw there's no such thing as an early release |
| 20:11 |
hmmmm |
these are patch version levels we're changing here |
| 20:11 |
hmmmm |
we can make releases and bump that number as often as we'd like |
| 20:12 |
sapier |
we don't really use the possibilities our version scheme would provide ;-) I guess we would be at 0.10.0 if we did with some 0.x.y versions |
| 20:21 |
hmmmm |
i had to write a generalized and simplified version of getBlockNodeIdMapping()... where should that go, you think? |
| 20:21 |
hmmmm |
it's not part of any class |
| 20:34 |
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| 21:18 |
PilzAdam |
sapier, would you agree to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/773 ? we can turn the object collision for falling nodes back on later |
| 21:19 |
Exio |
i agree by now |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
I already told my oppion about adding this new property |
| 21:20 |
PilzAdam |
oh, I though all your comments were about the dropped items and falling nodes |
| 21:20 |
PilzAdam |
+t |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
as a property added once is most unlikely to be removed anytime soon don't call it a temporary fix |
| 21:20 |
PilzAdam |
the option itself should stay there forever |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
no imho this commit is a workaround for a problem that should be fixed correctly |
| 21:21 |
PilzAdam |
why dont give modders the ability to decide? |
| 21:21 |
PilzAdam |
you forve everyone to use all collision or none at all |
| 21:21 |
PilzAdam |
*force |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
because they already can decide this property is almost same as "physical" |
| 21:22 |
PilzAdam |
turning physical off will also remove the object node collision |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: he's right in that the bugs should be fixed to begin with, but we still need this setting - think of dropping craftitems. Why should those *ever* stack up in practice? |
| 21:22 |
PilzAdam |
and dropped items should never collide with objects, but they have to collide with nodes |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
*nod* |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
if I read "collide_with_objects" I don't have any idea what this means ... objects aren't a concept within lua |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
there are nodes and entities |
| 21:24 |
Exio |
collide_with_other_entities_around |
| 21:24 |
Exio |
:D |
| 21:25 |
sapier |
then rename physical to collide_with_everything |
| 21:25 |
PilzAdam |
http://dev.minetest.net/Terminology |
| 21:25 |
PilzAdam |
"Object - something in the world that is not attached to any particular node or position, can move and act on its own. Examples include mobs, dropped items, falling sand or gravel, primed TNT. Players are also objects. " |
| 21:25 |
sapier |
or make collision handling a value not beeing bool |
| 21:25 |
sapier |
what happens if someone sets physical to false but collide_with_objects to true? |
| 21:26 |
PilzAdam |
thats documented |
| 21:26 |
PilzAdam |
"collide_with_objects = true, -- collide with other objects if physical=true " |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
we have two parameters specifying same thing but depending on each other |
| 21:27 |
PilzAdam |
making it a string field would break compatibilty |
| 21:27 |
PilzAdam |
+i |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
so we add a hack ... imho this is wrong but you'lll do it no matter what I say |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
sane solution adding this hack would declare physical deprecated |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
and add a new parameter collision_type (none,nodes,everything) |
| 21:30 |
sapier |
at least thats my oppinion |
| 21:39 |
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| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
hey guys, anybody know of a function that sorts v3s16 members? |
| 22:00 |
hmmmm |
e.g. p1 = {1, 2, 3}, p2 = {-1, 5, 6} sorted would be p1 = {-1, 2, 3}, p2 = {1, 5, 6} |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:02 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: Look at WorldEdit. |
| 22:02 |
hmmmm |
no.. i mean a function in minetest that already does that |
| 22:02 |
ShadowNinja |
No. |
| 22:17 |
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