| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
Exio |
lemme do it and then we'll see :P |
| 00:00 |
Exio |
i'm not even sure if it'll work hehe |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
compiling in mac ppc error |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
error: no match for 'operator!=' in 'i != std::list<_Tp, _Alloc>::rend() [with _Tp = RollbackAction, _Alloc = std::allocator<RollbackAction>]()' |
| 00:04 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
on c++ code |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
for(std::list<RollbackAction>::const_reverse_iterator |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
i = m_action_latest_buffer.rbegin(); |
| 00:04 |
ch98 |
i != m_action_latest_buffer.rend(); i++) |
| 00:05 |
ShadowNinja |
ch98: File? Line? |
| 00:05 |
kahrl |
use a pastebin (and you posted this in #minetest already) |
| 00:05 |
ShadowNinja |
Happens with == too it seems. |
| 00:05 |
ch98 |
well, there may be more experienced people here |
| 00:06 |
PilzAdam |
ch98, all people that are here are in #minetest too; and posting this in many channels seems selfish |
| 00:06 |
ch98 |
oh ok |
| 00:08 |
ch98 |
I will be using this channel for error messages now |
| 00:09 |
ch98 |
Users/net/Desktop/minetest-0.4.4/src/rollback.cpp:117: is the path |
| 00:09 |
Exio |
what the actual fuck? |
| 00:09 |
Exio |
0.4.4? |
| 00:09 |
Exio |
try with the lastest git |
| 00:10 |
ch98 |
4.6 had more errors and asked for something that can't be installed on ppc mac |
| 00:11 |
ch98 |
couldn't even get past the cmake |
| 00:12 |
PilzAdam |
I dont know if this is the right channel to help you with compiling on mac |
| 00:12 |
Exio |
well, i think fixing them by yourself would be faster |
| 00:12 |
Exio |
as we don't own a mac |
| 00:14 |
ch98 |
well, more reason for learning c and c++ |
| 00:17 |
Exio |
https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/087581084b90ef83f632a42b8e5506dfe690f44b |
| 00:18 |
Exio |
any things to "fix" before throwing the pull request? |
| 00:19 |
Exio |
like, names wrong or so |
| 00:19 |
PilzAdam |
what does that do exactly? |
| 00:19 |
Exio |
when you press T or / (the default keybinds), it opens a console what closes after pressing return/enter |
| 00:33 |
Exio |
k - #751 |
| 00:39 |
kahrl |
Exio: haven't tested it, but what happens if you press '/' while the (closed) console contains a nonempty prompt? |
| 00:40 |
Exio |
it adds the / |
| 00:40 |
Exio |
to the end, i need to fix that, i guess |
| 00:40 |
kahrl |
I'm not entirely sure what should happen |
| 00:41 |
Exio |
this needs a clearInput, no? |
| 00:41 |
Exio |
clearInput; add("/" |
| 00:41 |
Exio |
); :P |
| 00:41 |
kahrl |
would be nice if the partially completed line went into the history |
| 00:42 |
Exio |
making the clearInput throw the stuff to the history, then (i guess?) |
| 00:43 |
kahrl |
add a method replaceAndAddToHistory to ChatPrompt |
| 00:44 |
kahrl |
(which only adds to the history if the prompt is nonempty) |
| 00:44 |
kahrl |
I don't see a problem in calling it from the_game |
| 00:45 |
kahrl |
for T: replaceAndAddToHistory(L""), for /: replaceAndAddToHistory(L"/") |
| 00:46 |
Exio |
ok |
| 00:46 |
kahrl |
see ChatPrompt::submit for how to add something to the history |
| 00:47 |
Exio |
yep |
| 00:52 |
Exio |
wait, is actually ChatPrompt::submit just an "addToHistory" + "clear"? |
| 00:52 |
kahrl |
actually yeah |
| 00:52 |
Exio |
ah ok |
| 00:54 |
kahrl |
guess you could replace the one submit call in the entire codebase with a replaceAndAddToHistory call |
| 00:55 |
Exio |
i actually added an "addToHistory" function |
| 00:55 |
kahrl |
that's good too |
| 00:56 |
Exio |
http://dpaste.com/1209018/plain/ :P |
| 00:57 |
Exio |
well, what you said is better |
| 00:58 |
kahrl |
I don't think clear() is even called up to now |
| 00:58 |
kahrl |
having addToHistory() and replace(std::wstring) would be enough |
| 00:58 |
kahrl |
and replace returns the original content |
| 01:00 |
Exio |
just a random thing, should addToHistory public or i just keep it private? |
| 01:00 |
Exio |
even if it isn't used anywhere |
| 01:01 |
kahrl |
public and then do this in guiChatConsole:423: prompt.addToHistory(); std::wstring line = prompt.replace(L""); |
| 01:02 |
Exio |
and then i remove submit, no? |
| 01:02 |
kahrl |
yeah |
| 01:02 |
Exio |
ok |
| 01:02 |
kahrl |
s/line/text |
| 01:03 |
Exio |
void ChatPrompt::replace(std::wstring line) |
| 01:03 |
Exio |
it actually doesn't return anything, i'll change that |
| 01:03 |
kahrl |
right, so it returns what was there before |
| 01:04 |
kahrl |
alternatively add a getLine method |
| 01:04 |
kahrl |
whatever just like best :) |
| 01:04 |
kahrl |
s/just/you |
| 01:05 |
Exio |
getLine would be just return m_line; |
| 01:05 |
Exio |
(i guess) |
| 01:05 |
kahrl |
yup |
| 01:24 |
Exio |
kahrl: i wonder, as you know more minetest code, would be making a 'wrapper' (replaceAndAddToHistory in guiChatConsole to m_chat_backend->getPrompt().addToHistory/replace) ok, or what should i do? :P |
| 01:25 |
kahrl |
doesn't really matter I guess |
| 01:25 |
Exio |
ok |
| 01:25 |
kahrl |
you could call it "submit" ;) |
| 01:28 |
kahrl |
^ only partly in jest, but I admit "submit" is a bit misleading since it doesn't submit it to Client |
| 01:28 |
Exio |
"jest"? |
| 01:29 |
kahrl |
replaceAndAddToHistory says more clearly what the function does |
| 01:29 |
Exio |
hehe |
| 01:29 |
Exio |
replaceAndAddToHistoryWhenThereIsAnActualLine :D |
| 01:30 |
kahrl |
replaceAndAddToHistoryWhenThereIsAnActualLineAndRemoveTopOfHistoryOnOverflow |
| 01:31 |
Exio |
(tm) |
| 01:31 |
Exio |
;P |
| 01:31 |
Exio |
hell, yeah |
| 01:31 |
Exio |
works :D |
| 01:32 |
kahrl |
grats :) |
| 01:35 |
Exio |
other thing, should escape open the menu after the console is closed? |
| 01:35 |
Exio |
i don't think it should |
| 01:36 |
kahrl |
the pause menu? it does currently but it shouldn't, I think |
| 01:36 |
Exio |
exactly |
| 01:48 |
Exio |
kahrl: https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/af917d5db920811bdbc7b410c702c6957f19a1f2 |
| 01:49 |
Exio |
escape now doesn't throw you to "the pause menu" |
| 01:49 |
Exio |
(if you are using the console), just closes it |
| 01:49 |
Exio |
plus the change about "" and "/" (they get added to the history), and the stuff from before |
| 01:50 |
Exio |
about triggering a bug "more frequently", isn't that other "reason" for trying to fix it somewhen? |
| 01:50 |
Exio |
i mean, if it affects more frequently, more people will try to fix it ;P |
| 01:50 |
Exio |
"affects more frequently", whatever |
| 01:52 |
Exio |
i actually just like that because the history and tab completion |
| 01:53 |
kahrl |
the bad thing about the F10 bug is that it is just about impossible to track down |
| 01:53 |
kahrl |
I'm a bit pessimistic about it getting fixed |
| 01:53 |
VanessaE |
I haven't had an F10 crah in...forever |
| 01:53 |
VanessaE |
crash* |
| 01:54 |
kahrl |
well maybe it has been fixed :P |
| 01:54 |
kaeza |
same here |
| 01:55 |
Exio |
i didn't get it for a long ago, too, maybe it got fixed by a side effect of other bugfix/feature :P |
| 01:58 |
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| 01:59 |
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| 02:00 |
Exio |
since a long ago, well, whatever |
| 02:01 |
Exio |
you can understand it |
| 02:04 |
kahrl |
I tried the branch and I like it |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
which branch? |
| 02:08 |
Exio |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/751 |
| 02:08 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 02:09 |
VanessaE |
ok, I'll bite. |
| 02:11 |
VanessaE |
oh. |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
kahrl: https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/1acaf13735ee256932fdad024331974ca8ea14c9 |
| 02:11 |
VanessaE |
not as fancy as I expected, but I like the change |
| 02:11 |
Exio |
what fancy did thing did you want? :P |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
I expected something like the old command dialog but with several lines' worth of history |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
but this is good, too |
| 02:15 |
Exio |
the "old" command dialog is pretty basic and doesn't support lots of stuff what the console does, using the console "with other behavior" (the close_on_enter for example) seems better for avoiding repeating even more code) |
| 02:15 |
VanessaE |
idea: |
| 02:15 |
VanessaE |
when the chat console closes, put a brief dark region behind the chat text at the top of the screen. Make it fade away after a couple of seconds. |
| 02:16 |
Exio |
wasn't that "done" by other pull request around? |
| 02:16 |
VanessaE |
simple bit of visual feedback that'll help alleviate the impression that whatever the user typed was ignored. |
| 02:16 |
VanessaE |
dunno, |
| 02:17 |
Exio |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/608 |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
but this should only be visible for a few seconds, and would be a simple dark region identical to what's done to create the console |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
yes, something like that. |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
but darker and only momentarily visible. |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
(I am not in favor of a permanent, darkened region like that, though) |
| 02:19 |
VanessaE |
(I've got a decent, shadowed font that I use, so such would be redundant in my setup) |
| 02:19 |
Exio |
i actually don't understand what *exactly* you want what that pull request doesn't "do" |
| 02:20 |
VanessaE |
simple: |
| 02:20 |
VanessaE |
when you open the main console, you've got the darkened background, right? |
| 02:20 |
VanessaE |
if you opened it with / or T it auto-closes when you hit enter. |
| 02:21 |
VanessaE |
What I suggest is that it should temporarily darken the area behind the remaining chat text in a manner similar to #608, but that darkened area should fade away completely after a couple of seconds. |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
this will draw the user's eye to the chat text |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
which of course should contain the output of the command that was executed |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
(or the line of chat that was just sent) |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
without something to draw the user's eye to the chat area, you get the impression for an instant that the command didn't execute, because it looks like the console simply closes. |
| 02:24 |
VanessaE |
I've seen this same effect on some bug trackers, when you submit a comment (e.g. launchpad), the background of the new comment will turn, say, green for a few seconds and then fade to white. |
| 02:27 |
VanessaE |
(right here is where I expect one of, "ehm, wut?" or "fuck no, you moron!" or "oh! I see what you meant" ;) ) |
| 02:29 |
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| 02:40 |
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| 02:41 |
Exio |
i still don't get it, grr |
| 02:42 |
Exio |
i will try to read it tomorrow; it is getting late and i need to do hw |
| 02:53 |
VanessaE |
translation: "ehm, wut?" |
| 02:53 |
VanessaE |
;) |
| 02:54 |
Exio |
VanessaE: i need to do two projects for tomorrow |
| 02:54 |
Exio |
i have like 5 hours left if i don't sleep; but i need to |
| 02:54 |
VanessaE |
relax, I'm just kidding now |
| 02:54 |
VanessaE |
you got more important stuff to do. |
| 02:54 |
Exio |
but boring* :P |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 03:17 |
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| 11:15 |
PilzAdam |
somone on #terasology just posted this: http://purchasingusa.com/mapsetup.png |
| 11:15 |
PilzAdam |
I want this in minetest :-) |
| 11:17 |
Calinou |
not that hard, we could add this to world creation menu |
| 11:17 |
Calinou |
but we need to make mapgen settings actual per-world settings |
| 11:17 |
proller |
+1 |
| 11:19 |
PilzAdam |
although I would make the preview optional and disabled by default, and put a big red "SPOILER ALERT!" there |
| 11:25 |
Calinou |
uh uh |
| 11:29 |
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| 11:37 |
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| 11:43 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: hmmmm was aiming for such at some time; dunno if he got sidetracked or abandoned the idea |
| 12:22 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1379 <- can you change the link to point to here: http://dev.minetest.net/Installing_Mods ? |
| 12:26 |
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| 12:53 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: done |
| 13:01 |
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| 13:16 |
kahrl |
which of these pull requests shall be merged (next)? #733 #738 #743 #746 #747 #748 #750 |
| 13:16 |
kahrl |
or any others |
| 13:18 |
VanessaE |
748, hands down. |
| 13:18 |
VanessaE |
then 750 and 746 |
| 13:19 |
kahrl |
any objections to 748? |
| 13:21 |
Exio |
the objection is to why it isn't merged yet |
| 13:22 |
PilzAdam |
I dont really get what this is fixing, so you need to write it to the changelog |
| 13:23 |
kahrl |
I don't really have a concise way of describing it, but I can try |
| 13:23 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: in most formspecs, when you close the formspec, you have to jiggle the mouse to get the keyboard to work again. |
| 13:24 |
PilzAdam |
this really fixes it? then throw it in ASAP |
| 13:24 |
kahrl |
actually in all formspecs, but only if you moved the mouse when the formspec was open |
| 13:24 |
VanessaE |
e.g. you can't t -> hello! -> enter -> t -> foo....oops, the dialog didn't open -> jiggle the mouse -> t -> foo -> enter |
| 13:25 |
PilzAdam |
you have an issue for that open, right? |
| 13:26 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: ages-old, yes |
| 13:26 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/103 |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:26 |
Exio |
wow, 103 |
| 13:27 |
celeron55 |
i find it funny how long kahrl's previous attempt at fixing the focus thing was |
| 13:28 |
celeron55 |
it was like 1.5 years ago and it modified basically everything everywhere 8) |
| 13:28 |
PilzAdam |
https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/04f007404c181a2109db62f9815dcbe470c4a178 <- this one? |
| 13:28 |
kahrl |
a-yup :P |
| 13:29 |
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| 13:29 |
PilzAdam |
"Fixed bug where you need to move the mouse after closing a formspec" <- would this be ok for changelog? |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
"jiggle the mouse" :) |
| 13:30 |
celeron55 |
you don't need to jiggle it |
| 13:30 |
celeron55 |
just move one pixel |
| 13:30 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: shush. don't spoil the joke. |
| 13:30 |
Exio |
is #132 still valid? |
| 13:30 |
celeron55 |
also, as it happens in every menu, so "closing a menu" would be better |
| 13:30 |
celeron55 |
-so |
| 13:31 |
VanessaE |
Exio: yes, I still get that issue every so often |
| 13:31 |
VanessaE |
(whether it's due to the same underlying cause as it was then, I don't know) |
| 13:35 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, yes |
| 13:36 |
Exio |
other random thing, what about #346 ? |
| 13:36 |
PilzAdam |
nobody knows ;-) |
| 13:46 |
kahrl |
any objections to 750? |
| 13:49 |
PilzAdam |
if it doesnt leak then its good |
| 13:49 |
VanessaE |
do we really care about #260, since the described syntax is deprecated anyway? |
| 13:50 |
VanessaE |
er #206 |
| 13:52 |
kahrl |
are quotes in itemstrings really deprecated? |
| 13:53 |
VanessaE |
well, no one who pays attention to the api doc uses the old syntax anymore, so.. :-) |
| 13:53 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: the tile code is too complex for me to completely understand it, but afaik textures only get "leaked" when connecting to a server |
| 13:54 |
kahrl |
so there's a finite number of them and they get cleaned up on disconnect |
| 13:54 |
kaeza |
I guess using quotes in itemstrings is useless anyway |
| 13:54 |
kaeza |
nobody in their right mind would use spaces in item names |
| 13:54 |
kahrl |
kaeza: strictly speaking the API doesn't prevent it |
| 13:54 |
kaeza |
(and I guess the checks don't allow that) |
| 13:54 |
kaeza |
hm? |
| 13:55 |
PilzAdam |
kahrl, what does valgrind say? |
| 13:56 |
kaeza |
if you ask me, I'd say mark it deprecated syntax if it isn't already |
| 13:57 |
kahrl |
I haven't been patient enough to try valgrind |
| 14:00 |
kahrl |
it spams me with uninitialized value warnings because rotation isn't initialized in the TileSpec constructor |
| 14:01 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fbc22f91d511b961b4fbf605b7d8e1b07a7c0e06 |
| 14:01 |
VanessaE |
the commit where the old syntax was deleted from the api. |
| 14:03 |
kahrl |
+eg. '"default:apple" 2' |
| 14:13 |
kahrl |
so uhh... valgrind doesn't even show me leak information by default? |
| 14:13 |
kahrl |
thank you valgrind for wasting 15 minutes of my time |
| 14:13 |
PilzAdam |
valgrind --leak-check=full bin/minetest |
| 14:13 |
kahrl |
it could have told me that when I started it not when I quit it |
| 14:13 |
PilzAdam |
I also use --log-file=something.log |
| 14:13 |
kaeza |
aww |
| 14:14 |
kaeza |
but at least you were playing in my server <3 |
| 14:14 |
kahrl |
not so much playing as getting killed by some jerk while running at 0.1FPS :P |
| 14:14 |
celeron55 |
let's make a more randomly broken game so that developers will be playing on servers to debug it |
| 14:15 |
kaeza |
^ |
| 14:15 |
PilzAdam |
I get up to 18 FPS when looking at the ground in valgrind |
| 14:15 |
kaeza |
interesting: celeron55 was playing on WazuClan the other day |
| 14:16 |
celeron55 |
kaeza: what day |
| 14:17 |
kaeza |
two days ago IIRC |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
not me |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:17 |
kaeza |
from the looks it was not you actually |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
also i almost never use the name "celeron55" on servers |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
more often something else |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
(if you stumble upon some privilege-less stranger, it has a rare chance to be me 8)) |
| 14:18 |
kaeza |
lol IK |
| 14:18 |
kaeza |
you don't go talking like "giv me intrct plz!!!" |
| 14:19 |
celeron55 |
i probably have played on wazuclan some day to check it out though (can't remember server names) |
| 14:34 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam: I don't see any texture related leaks |
| 14:34 |
kahrl |
most of them are either in libasound or related to shaders |
| 14:34 |
PilzAdam |
good |
| 14:37 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: did you try #746? |
| 14:37 |
VanessaE |
not yet, I'll do that right now. |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
255MB world I use for testing (my old pre-map-reset server), clearobjects maxed out at 601 MB virtual, 128MB resident, ~6.7MB shared |
| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
much better. |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
wait, that was the wrong one. shit. |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
still, it didn't use much |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
lemme get the correct figures for the one that was under test. |
| 14:59 |
VanessaE |
singleplayer, running that same map. Default textures, my game. Started with ~1.1GB virtual, 481 MB resident, 38MB shared (most of which, doubtlessly, is the client half). Clearobjects maxed out at ~1.2GB virtual, 569 MB resident, 41 MB shared (so a difference of ~88 MB). |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
I'd call it good, myself. |
| 15:02 |
kahrl |
certainly much better than 22.5GB ;) |
| 15:02 |
VanessaE |
yep :D |
| 15:02 |
kahrl |
does the block unloading seem to cost performance? |
| 15:02 |
VanessaE |
I didn't notice, actually |
| 15:02 |
kahrl |
awesome |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
I was only paying attention to the RAM usage :) |
| 15:04 |
kahrl |
if it does cause some problems the new config setting can be set to a large value to disable it, anyway |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
"HA! What'd I tell you!? 88 MB an hour!!" |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
(go ahead, use that in your official commit message ;) ) |
| 15:06 |
kahrl |
heh |
| 15:17 |
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| 17:44 |
PilzAdam |
kahrl, just tested max_clearobjects_extra_loaded_blocks = 1 vs. 4096 on a ~70 MiB map; 1 is only ~10 sec. slower |
| 17:45 |
sapier |
is bsd license compatible to minetest? |
| 17:50 |
PilzAdam |
without the patch it crashes the server (out of RAM) |
| 17:57 |
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| 17:59 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam, interesting |
| 17:59 |
kahrl |
what default value would you recommend? |
| 18:00 |
kahrl |
I thought 1 would be much slower because each unload cycle causes a sqlite transaction |
| 18:00 |
PilzAdam |
what is the memory usage in RAM per block? |
| 18:00 |
kahrl |
16k+x |
| 18:00 |
kahrl |
where x depends on metadata |
| 18:01 |
PilzAdam |
maybe write that info in minetest.conf.example? so people can calculate themselves |
| 18:01 |
PilzAdam |
and just leave the current value as default (4096) |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
just make the default value the smallest that doesn't increase the overhead a lot on regular HDDs |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
no need for explanations because that will suit practically everybody until forever |
| 18:05 |
kahrl |
I don't mind adding a one line documentation to minetest.conf.example |
| 18:06 |
kahrl |
4096 doesn't seem to add much write overhead and consumes between 64MB and 100MB of extra memory usually |
| 18:06 |
kahrl |
so it should be a fine default value |
| 18:06 |
kahrl |
maybe 1024? |
| 18:07 |
celeron55 |
something like "This is a trade-off between sqlite transaction overhead and memory consumption (4096=100MB)" could be a useful comment |
| 18:07 |
kahrl |
sounds good |
| 18:08 |
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| 18:10 |
PilzAdam |
why do you do this "if(num_blocks_checked % unload_interval == 0)" instead of "if(num_blocks_checked == unload_interval)"? |
| 18:11 |
kahrl |
with the latter variant it would only unload once, wouldn't it? |
| 18:11 |
PilzAdam |
oh, you dont reset it |
| 18:12 |
kahrl |
a similar check is used for report_interval |
| 18:12 |
kahrl |
updated the minetest.conf.example comment: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/5700085 |
| 18:14 |
kahrl |
should the getBlockNoCreateNoEx calls be getBlockNoCreate calls? |
| 18:14 |
kahrl |
none of them should fail, but if it does the latter gives a traceable exception |
| 18:21 |
kahrl |
since I don't think that really matters, is it ok to merge it (it = the gist)? |
| 18:21 |
PilzAdam |
sure |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:29 |
kahrl |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/752 a simple fix for a segfault, looks good to merge |
| 18:30 |
PilzAdam |
this function isnt used at all |
| 18:30 |
PilzAdam |
ask hmmmm, its part of his mgv7 code |
| 18:30 |
kahrl |
sweetbomber was trying something with register_biome |
| 18:30 |
kahrl |
but yes it isn't used currently |
| 18:30 |
celeron55 |
sweetbomber started developing mgv7 with hmmmm's approval (or that's what i figured from their discussion) |
| 18:32 |
kahrl |
hmmmm: does #752 break/conflict with anything you're doing? |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
not likely at all, as that's in a location recently completely modified by the scriptapi changes and hmmmm has been busy with school stuff |
| 18:33 |
celeron55 |
(or something like that) |
| 18:33 |
kahrl |
right |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
hi all, a question: new menus based on formspec are gonna be added in o.4.7 or after? |
| 18:34 |
celeron55 |
what part of "freeze" you didn't understand? 8) |
| 18:35 |
hmmmm |
aa |
| 18:35 |
hmmmm |
no 752 is fine |
| 18:35 |
kahrl |
hmmmm: ok, I'll merge it |
| 18:35 |
hmmmm |
thanks sweetbomber |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i was away and rather busy for a few days |
| 18:35 |
hmmmm |
subtle, that one is. i guess he came across it when he tried to add too many |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
this is my last day on old flat |
| 18:35 |
celeron55 |
i think 752 is a good sign of what sweetbomber is doing; it sounds like he's digging into the thing enough to know something 8) |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
theres a box there, chair, some junk and nothing more ;) |
| 18:36 |
hmmmm |
yeah, sweetbomber knows what he's doing it seems |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
tommorow im moving to a new place |
| 18:36 |
Jordach |
a dev that isnt an IRC asshole \o/ |
| 18:37 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, I dont think your flat is interesting for minetest's development |
| 18:37 |
Jordach |
PilzAdam, RealBadAngel: mg_flags = new_flat |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
well, it isnt |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i am askin bout menus |
| 18:37 |
hmmmm |
celeron55, not so much developing mg v7, but improving the biome selection and then he has that bigger idea (which i don't think will work out in the end) for placing discrete structures |
| 18:38 |
hmmmm |
if the latter works out, we can use that for caves too somehow |
| 18:38 |
hmmmm |
which is big |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i want to add many menu options, that why im askin for menu system to use |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have many shaders code ready to release |
| 18:39 |
hmmmm |
with no need for the extra borders in vmanip, map generation can be completely parallel and it'd remove several long-term problems |
| 18:40 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: i'm not fully knowledgeable of what's happening with the menu, but i suggest waiting until after 0.4.7 is released and ask again |
| 18:41 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I think the menu will be one of the big new features of 0.4.8 |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, shaders stuff anyways is too fresh stuff to release it with unecessary hurry |
| 18:43 |
RealBadAngel |
but it will need definitely ways to turn parts of it on/off |
| 18:44 |
RealBadAngel |
so my guess is waitin for new menu system is better |
| 18:44 |
kahrl |
you can do minetest.conf settings for now |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
they will have to be made anyways, of course |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
but the options that basically doubles rendering time deserves meny entry ;) |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i have almost finished water reflections, but price is high |
| 18:49 |
kahrl |
nice |
| 18:49 |
kahrl |
does it work at all elevations? |
| 18:50 |
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| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
by now i am using arbitrary water level |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
sea level in fact |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and wondering how to make it for varying levels |
| 18:53 |
PilzAdam |
terasology has this for sea level only |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
because its the easiest way |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
but usear can easily make many different water surface levels |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
on different heights |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
and thats the problem |
| 18:57 |
kahrl |
a very fake but easy way to do it would be screen space reflection |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
current camera view flipped? |
| 18:58 |
kahrl |
I'm not sure exactly how it works, but there is code on the internet |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
reflection is a texture |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
you get it by rendering to texture, not screen |
| 18:59 |
kahrl |
yeah, that texture would be the current screen |
| 18:59 |
kahrl |
what vector calculation have to be done beyond that I don't know |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
then you use this texture as water surface |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
and add effects like distortion |
| 19:00 |
Exio |
mix() |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
so basically the texture is a picture in the mirror |
| 19:02 |
RealBadAngel |
with border on the sea level |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
this means to get tree view in water, you render the view flipped, clip on the water height level |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
so the mittor image is at the right place |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
the problem is where to clip it |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
if user is not watching the sea level |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
or can see many levels |
| 19:06 |
kahrl |
if the user has a supercomputer, clip at every level that has water ;) |
| 19:06 |
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| 19:06 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 19:06 |
Exio |
inb4 "For enabling shaders we recomend a SLI with GTX TITANs" |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
cmon, the effects works on ati 4670 |
| 19:07 |
Exio |
for what kahrl said, i mean :P |
| 19:08 |
kahrl |
but, well, you could cycle through the needed levels and only generate one of them each frame |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
which is treated as old one and thus only legacy drivers for ir |
| 19:08 |
kahrl |
then the reflections will lag behind the real scene a bit but it might be good enough |
| 19:09 |
Exio |
that doesn't sound easy to implement with shaders :P |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
shaders are easier to code than it looks at the begining, but to make something nice with them is different stuff |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
lotsa geometry calculations to do |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
i was wondering for a function to get avereage sea level in view |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
but i guess it will take too much tine |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
*time |
| 19:13 |
kahrl |
you could store the average sea level per mapblock (calculate it during mesh generation, and store it in MapBlockMesh) |
| 19:13 |
kahrl |
then just compute the average over the stored values of the rendered mapblocks |
| 19:14 |
kahrl |
you will also need to store a weight of course |
| 19:18 |
kahrl |
getting the mode (rather than mean) seems to be more useful but is more complicated |
| 19:19 |
celeron55 |
did RBA add some kind of dual-pass rendering? |
| 19:21 |
kahrl |
I assume he did, for the clipped scene for water reflection |
| 19:29 |
RealBadAngel |
yes i did |
| 19:29 |
RealBadAngel |
second pass renders to texture |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
storing generated water level imho doesnt make any sense |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
user can simply build a pool in a cave |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
kahrl is not talking about the map generator |
| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
this should be some render time solution |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
he is talking about the mesh generator |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
see MapBlockMesh |
| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
ah |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
count water levels at generating meshes? that could work |
| 19:34 |
RealBadAngel |
seems like a good way to try |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
thx kahrl for the idea |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
i think it may work |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:57 |
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| 19:58 |
sapier |
https://github.com/sapier/minetest/tree/ngmm_minizip what do you think about adding full minizip source while only using unzip? |
| 19:59 |
sapier |
at least atm only unzip |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
when we were planning some mmdb stuff, we came up with using .tar.gz |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
as the automated package format |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
but dunno |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
I guess this would be a minor change ... what about supporting both? |
| 20:05 |
kaeza |
gz seems to compress better than zip |
| 20:05 |
celeron55 |
the main point is that minetest already has zlib included, which contains functions for handling .gz |
| 20:05 |
sapier |
yes but "standard user" is used more to zip files |
| 20:05 |
celeron55 |
so you only need to add a tar library, which is small |
| 20:06 |
sapier |
minizip s quite less too I actualy use only a single code file |
| 20:06 |
PilzAdam |
modders are not standard users |
| 20:06 |
sapier |
standard users are the one that need a gui to install mods |
| 20:06 |
celeron55 |
the mod database can convert them by itself if needed |
| 20:06 |
celeron55 |
or whatever |
| 20:06 |
celeron55 |
it's not really an issue as long as there is a single used format |
| 20:06 |
sapier |
yes but atm there's only local install support |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
and zip seams to be most common used format for mods |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
-a +e |
| 20:07 |
celeron55 |
if you use only a single file from the zip library, why are you adding like 20 of them? |
| 20:09 |
sapier |
that's what I intended to ask to complete license I need to add at least 3 files unzip.h unzip.c and MiniZip64_info.txt |
| 20:09 |
sapier |
if someone needs other minizip functions later she/he needs to replace everything |
| 20:10 |
sapier |
or find exact version |
| 20:10 |
sapier |
so I don't care if you want minimal version only it'll be fine for me |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:11 |
sapier |
btw we don't need a tar lib the format is that simple this can be implemented in no time |
| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
hmm, well, can you make a more minimal version of that commit? |
| 20:12 |
sapier |
of course |
| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
like, just rip out all the files that aren't actually used; the version of the library is mentioned in there anyway so files are easy to add if needed |
| 20:14 |
celeron55 |
if zip support doesn't require more than a couple of files from that, then i don't see any reason for tar.gz |
| 20:14 |
kahrl |
if I had to choose a format I would choose tar over zip |
| 20:14 |
kahrl |
zip has some not nice things like the pain it is to find the zip directory |
| 20:14 |
kahrl |
making untar a lot less code than unzip |
| 20:15 |
celeron55 |
well if there is some actual reason why zip is less handy, then it's obviously not a good idea to use it |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
i have never used any file archive libraries so i have no idea about anything |
| 20:16 |
kahrl |
I assume minizip already handles all that stuff, so it's not like this code needs to be written, but it is still more code that is added |
| 20:19 |
sapier |
unzipping is already implemented in that code |
| 20:19 |
sapier |
it's not that simple I hoped to be but still not complex |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
ok pushed minimal version (for linux) maybe there are two more files on windows as i stripped iowin32.c/h |
| 20:23 |
sfan5 |
*reads backlog* ... i'd prefer tar.gz |
| 20:23 |
sapier |
maybe we could use version 1.0 too which lacks zip64 support which we most likely don't need |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
sfan5 if this was for me I'd prefere tar.gz too but primary users will bin windows users which aren't used to tar.gz |
| 20:24 |
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| 20:24 |
kahrl |
the mod repository can accept both formats and convert zip to tar.gz |
| 20:24 |
sfan5 |
fow win users .zip would be nicer, indeed |
| 20:25 |
kahrl |
the server, when submitting mods, I mean |
| 20:25 |
PilzAdam |
doesnt the mod manage handle the archives? |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
yes moddb is completely unrelated |
| 20:25 |
sfan5 |
zip doesn't store uid and gid, does it? |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
it's not required sfan5 |
| 20:25 |
sapier |
it may even be a problem |
| 20:25 |
PilzAdam |
why do users need to know the archive format? |
| 20:26 |
sapier |
cause they download it and they get told "don't download anything you don't know" |
| 20:26 |
sapier |
I don't intend to add automated moddb downloading in first step |
| 20:26 |
PilzAdam |
oh, so the modmanager doesnt download mods? |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
not in first version |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
in version 2 it will do |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
this commit is already huge I don't want to extend it to a level where noone ever will be able to check it |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
I would not show the mod manager by default until it has automatic downloading |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
btw minizip addition isn't required in first step too, formspec mainmenu modmanager will use system unzip if available |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
otherwise users will get confused about what it does |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
there are two different buttons for local install and download kahrl |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
and it's hidden by default atm too |
| 20:31 |
kahrl |
what does local install do exactly? |
| 20:32 |
sapier |
select a file unzip, try to guess correct filename if folder is incorrect move to global modfolder |
| 20:32 |
kahrl |
I see |
| 20:32 |
kahrl |
if it does that then it should probably support a number of archive formats |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
it's primary intention is to get rid of those "modname-master" errors |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
yes it's designed to use different formats but atm it supports only zip on linux ... it's a proof of concept |
| 20:35 |
sapier |
i guess zip tar.gz tar.bz2 will be enough ... maybe tar.7z too |
| 20:35 |
kahrl |
that's quite a lot, especially if it has to work on windows |
| 20:36 |
sapier |
true thats why i started with zip |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
libarchive could be used for windows tar support I've found a win32 version and it's available for almost all posix like os too |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
but It'd be usable as soon as zip support is available for all os |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
is anyone here who could test the minizip code on windows? |
| 20:46 |
celeron55 |
i suggest thinking mostly in the long-term on this |
| 20:46 |
celeron55 |
short-term benefits don't really count here |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
it doesn't do any harm in long term while it adds instant benefit |
| 20:48 |
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| 20:52 |
sapier |
and I'll add moddb support once formspec mainmenu is merged upstream for 0.4.8 I guess moddb support will be there no later then 0.4.9 |
| 20:54 |
PilzAdam |
since we dont have a fixed release schedule that isnt really informative |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
since we don't have a fixed release schedule I can't give you more exact information ;-P |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
it's sure it won't be added for 0.4.7 pilzadam formspec mainmenu most likely will be added in 0.4.8 but I'm not sure if a online modbrowser with moddb integration voting etc will be ready for 0.4.9 |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
i mean 0.4.8 |
| 21:04 |
PilzAdam |
this seems good to me: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/733 |
| 21:04 |
PilzAdam |
tested with the linked test mod |
| 21:06 |
celeron55 |
i really wish people wouldn't assign any major features to any patch versions |
| 21:06 |
celeron55 |
it is partly what leads to huge times between versions |
| 21:07 |
celeron55 |
but still people will always say "yeah my feature will be in 0.4.current+1" |
| 21:07 |
celeron55 |
just please stop it |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
you can ask ppl to stop but they wont do "somewhere in future" just isn't an optio |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
n |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
assign a date instead |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
not a version number |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
"two months from now" is like a million times better than some arbitrary version |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
telling a time is just useless if it isn't a mater of work but a matter of decisions to be made |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
that's not an argument towards saying a version number |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
and after almost two years I still don't have any feeling of how to predict when a decision will be made ;-) |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
next release version is same as telling a version number |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
I do understand that the version number most likely will be wrong but it's best aproximation I currently have ;-) |
| 21:11 |
celeron55 |
maybe instead of coding you should then figure out how to make decisions predictable |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
if I would find a way to do that I'd be a very rich man ;-) |
| 21:20 |
celeron55 |
anyhow, it could be useful if more people would maintain a roadmap in the wiki |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
I guess a roadmap can only be given by a single person or at least a few ... but of course thats my opinion |
| 21:22 |
celeron55 |
well it should be done with the people who would be mainly making the things in it |
| 21:22 |
celeron55 |
done by* |
| 21:25 |
sapier |
that'd be a job for core developers ;-) but they'd have less time for coding if doing this ;-) |
| 21:25 |
celeron55 |
you're quite a core developer actually |
| 21:26 |
celeron55 |
the listings of developers and github privileges are quite arbitrary |
| 21:27 |
sapier |
I'm just contributing what imho is necessary to improve minetest |
| 21:27 |
celeron55 |
that's quite what everyone is doing 8) |
| 21:28 |
sapier |
true :-) but for some ppl this is only adding fancy new features |
| 21:28 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't really get more special than that, altough someone might imagine it in a more glorified way |
| 21:30 |
sapier |
glorified? I don't do anything special ... I just want to fix the basics to for more creative ppl than I am |
| 21:30 |
celeron55 |
again, that is what i see mostly everyone doing here :P |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
sometimes I do have other impressions but maybe I'm wrong |
| 21:31 |
kahrl |
PilzAdam, merged |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
there's wild variation in what people consider "necessary to improve minetest" though |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
but back to topic :) release schedule/roadmap |
| 21:32 |
sapier |
and it's good to have different oppinions |
| 21:35 |
PilzAdam |
kahrl, I could have merged this too, but whatever |
| 21:35 |
PilzAdam |
less work for me |
| 21:36 |
kahrl |
one less round trip time :) |
| 21:36 |
PilzAdam |
and why are there dots at the end of the three latest commit messages? |
| 21:37 |
kahrl |
hmm is there a rule about that? |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
the rule is the rest of the commit messages 8) |
| 21:38 |
kahrl |
I know I forgot to change the past tense in 601ab8 |
| 21:38 |
PilzAdam |
rule 2: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines |
| 21:39 |
PilzAdam |
"look at the commit log" -> no dots |
| 21:39 |
Anchakor |
dat pedantry |
| 21:39 |
PilzAdam |
:D |
| 21:39 |
celeron55 |
we're north europeans, what do you expect! |
| 21:40 |
PilzAdam |
even worse, Im german :-p |
| 21:41 |
Anchakor |
dots or no dots always make me stop when making a presentation slides |
| 21:41 |
sapier |
ok guys I guess we don't have to proof anytime to be "good" germans .. do we? |
| 21:42 |
celeron55 |
Anchakor: the obvious solution is to flip a coin for each line |
| 21:43 |
Anchakor |
I decided to alter the convention on every slide and avoid those people who notice and point out |
| 21:43 |
* PilzAdam |
hates dots in presentations |
| 21:44 |
* celeron55 |
hates presentations |
| 21:44 |
PilzAdam |
you most likely dont write full sentences in there |
| 21:44 |
PilzAdam |
if you do, your presentation is wrong |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
star trek on arte ... I guess star wars has lost cultural war :-) |
| 22:14 |
* iqualfragile |
likes chocolate |
| 22:27 |
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sapier left #minetest-dev |
| 23:54 |
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iqualfragile_ joined #minetest-dev |
