| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
|
jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:04 |
hmmmm |
.. |
| 00:04 |
hmmmm |
alright guys, seriously, this is the #minetest-dev channel, not #minetest-number-2 |
| 00:05 |
hmmmm |
i'm fine with having a little fun but you've been having a lot of fun lately i see |
| 00:05 |
hmmmm |
in the wrong place. the reason why we're here and not #minetest-delta is to maximize the signal-to-noise ration. |
| 00:05 |
hmmmm |
s/ration/ratio/ |
| 00:08 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
is there a way i can disable name changing here |
| 00:08 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
it chnages both of my names |
| 00:08 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
i only meant to change in #minetest |
| 00:09 |
Exio |
nicks are per server, not channel |
| 00:10 |
Exio |
if you want to do that, you can always /part and read the logs later |
| 00:10 |
hmmmm |
also you join/part quite often |
| 00:11 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
um that is either my semi-ok connection at home or my bad connection at school |
| 00:11 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
and with school the best is 3 bars when it will shut off my wifi randomly |
| 00:12 |
Exio |
if you have those problems you should try to stop irc-ing and studying stuff, no? :) |
| 00:13 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
i have all 95+ |
| 00:13 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
grades i think i can manage irc and work |
| 00:14 |
Exio |
well, you can think that, but you can't stop being spammy and childish, so i don't get it, anyway |
| 00:14 |
Exio |
we should move this to #mt |
| 00:16 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
meh if you want to see nick change heaven join #freenode |
| 00:21 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:55 |
|
mrtux joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:21 |
|
sapier left #minetest-dev |
| 02:01 |
|
kaeza1 joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:22 |
|
EduardeCalibal joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:46 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 02:46 |
VanessaE |
hm? |
| 02:46 |
hmmmm |
PilzAdam, VanessaE, do you guys think we should flip on dungeons and jungles by default? |
| 02:46 |
VanessaE |
dungeons, sure. |
| 02:46 |
VanessaE |
jungles, well, you know my opinions thereof ;) |
| 02:46 |
VanessaE |
but I guess so. |
| 02:47 |
hmmmm |
oh right, your mod |
| 02:47 |
hmmmm |
when I get DecorationDef in place, I might backport it to v6 |
| 02:47 |
VanessaE |
don't bother. |
| 02:48 |
VanessaE |
by the time we get to a point where it's ready to backport, it won't be necessary - we'll all be using v7 by then I figure. |
| 02:48 |
hmmmm |
i don't know, maybe there will be some crazy people who like v6 better for some reason |
| 02:48 |
VanessaE |
perhaps |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
but anyway, dungeons yes, jungles I suppose so |
| 02:49 |
hmmmm |
i know pilz wanted it |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
a lot of people do actually |
| 02:49 |
Exio |
hmmmm: will be there any way to disable trees in lua? |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
Exio: there already us. |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
is. |
| 02:49 |
hmmmm |
there's no real reason why we don't have it enabled by default either, i just wanted to keep things the same as they were unless they wanted it to be different |
| 02:50 |
VanessaE |
oh hell I misread that |
| 02:50 |
hmmmm |
exio, erm, if what i was talking about is backported, then yeah. |
| 02:50 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: well think of it this way - dungeons mostly exist underground, so for the majority of players, there won't be any sudden change with those |
| 02:50 |
VanessaE |
jungles would be more visible, but a lot of people miss them |
| 02:51 |
Exio |
i mean, so VanessaE's mod can "replace" jungle trees if jungles are enabled (and even replace the "whole tree gen") |
| 02:51 |
Exio |
without having to do the actual "mapgen_aliases to air" |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
you can already disable more regular trees from being generated by disabling trees in the config file |
| 02:52 |
Exio |
i mean from a mod |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
well if you're using that mod, you probably know that |
| 02:53 |
Exio |
he :P |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
and you can disable it on your own |
| 02:53 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: I think what exio is getting at is, let's suppose I added a GUI config screen to moretrees. a checkbox (or some equivalent) should be able to disable trees at the mapgen level. |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
also, there are game-specific minetest.confs now |
| 02:53 |
VanessaE |
but there's no reason to make a huge deal of it |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
yeah, well, that sort of flexibility probably won't happen with the current system of generation |
| 02:54 |
VanessaE |
aliasing mapgen trees -> air is easy enough and effective, if slower than it could be |
| 02:54 |
VanessaE |
wait, idea: |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
suppose I aliased mapgen trees to CONTENT_IGNORE instead of air. Could the tree generator be tweaked to watch for that alias and abort in that case? |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
(as it stands now, if I do that I get "holes" in the map) |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
(I tried it :) ) |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
no, it can't be |
| 02:56 |
VanessaE |
too bad. |
| 02:56 |
VanessaE |
oh well :) |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
what you're asking for is an official way to perform a hack, while a solution isn't being done because there's no way to do it that isn't hacky |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
well... yeah, exactly. |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
i still don't understand why you guys are so infactuated with your trees that you can't divert your attention to the config file and disabling them there |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
s/diabling/disable/ |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: because the average unwashed user doesn't know how to edit a config file. |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
the true solution to this is to have a UI for these settings |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
which i intend to get to |
| 02:59 |
Exio |
well, yes :P |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
haha oh wow http://ompldr.org/vaTBrcQ |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
nice |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
stereotypical "overgrown temple underground with single crack of light showing through" |
| 03:08 |
hmmmm |
sapier really picked a great time to do all the cleanups |
| 03:08 |
VanessaE |
translation: "I am DYING to push this stuff to master NOW." |
| 03:08 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 03:08 |
hmmmm |
what i have now needs to be committed first or else there will be a lot more merge conflicts |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
i already have to toss what he has for biome.cpp entirely since that whole file has changed |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
better you should commit your stuff first then |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
i know, but i'm not ready |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
I'm sure he understands the need to rebase. |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
people are going to fawn over this and start using it when it's not finished, then talk about how it sucks because there are no trees or caves |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
i guess what i can do is comment out the registerMapgen line so nobody can use it without knowing why they can't, removing the comment, then compiling it on their own |
| 03:13 |
VanessaE |
that would certainly work |
| 03:13 |
VanessaE |
and would require the least amount of code changes to undo |
| 03:19 |
Exio |
hmmmm: commit message: "Add mapgen v7 (not enabled)" |
| 03:20 |
Exio |
and some commented lines |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
my minetest folder is 498mb, 6662 files |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
wow |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
jzz |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
jeez |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/472311ef6ef4e80b644e5781f374ee45d9ff2478 |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
"scranton.edu"... as in PA? |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
yeah, i thought i told you I was in PA |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
I'd forgotten. |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
been almost 10 years since I was in PA last (scranton, in fact). |
| 03:26 |
Exio |
PA? |
| 03:26 |
* VanessaE |
continues reading |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
you were in this shithole? :) hah |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
exio, a state in the united states |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
I used to work for Burst Net. :) |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
aaah |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
that little hole-in-the-wall ISP next to the kosher butcher shop |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
i know them |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
i know of them, rather |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
i think they've since relocated to Dunmore |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
(an even crappier municipality nearby) |
| 03:27 |
Exio |
hmmmm: ah |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
ah, I thought they had planned to take over the butcher shop. Did they ever get that piece of shit generator running? |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
*shrug* |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
lie i said, only know of them :) |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
like |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
anyways, </offtopic> |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
yeah heh |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
we're setting a bad precedent |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
so good thing i push stuff like this to my own fork first, i see some things i need to fix |
| 03:30 |
hmmmm |
also, something i noticed.. when people are adding new files to minetest consisting of only their own code, it's only proper for them to put their name in the license comment, not celeron's |
| 03:30 |
hmmmm |
right? it's the license of that file, not of the entire project |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
that's what I would do, sure |
| 03:31 |
Exio |
it needs a compatible license with the other "code" ... |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
until someone comes along and modifies my code, then it's only fair for that person to add their credit too, if they want |
| 03:31 |
Exio |
... wait, it is licensed under the same gpl as the game, so no problem! :P |
| 03:32 |
Exio |
+ //registerMapgen("v7", new MapgenFactoryV7()); aww |
| 03:33 |
|
jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:37 |
Exio |
hmmmm: what needs to get fixed in your actual code? |
| 03:53 |
hmmmm |
you mean right away, or how much more needs to get done? |
| 03:54 |
hmmmm |
right away, i'm just going to fix a minor whitespace issue, remove a printf i left in there, and the m_gamedef in BiomeDefManager |
| 04:01 |
Exio |
hmmmm: in both |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
of course, there'll be tons of tweaking over some period of time... the biggest things to do right now include getting getGroundLevelAtPoint() to work 100%, moving caves into their own file and using them in my mapgen, then start working on DecorationDef |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
finally. |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
i don't know how many times i've said "decorationdef", and now it's finally going to become real |
| 04:05 |
Exio |
well, say it other time! |
| 04:06 |
|
salamanderrake joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
also i need to balance out the biomes |
| 04:09 |
Exio |
"balance out"? what does that mean? |
| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
i don't know what the appropriate heat/humidity points are for biomes |
| 04:10 |
Exio |
ah |
| 04:11 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: note the values used in plants_lib |
| 04:11 |
VanessaE |
do I need to be ready for a change in those settings? |
| 04:11 |
hmmmm |
you can change those settings if you'd like |
| 04:12 |
VanessaE |
well, whatever values you settle on, let's make sure to coordinate with SPlizard also |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
plants_lib just pseudorandomly places a bunch of different decorations in your own calculated "biomes", right? |
| 04:12 |
VanessaE |
yep, pretty much so |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
which is basically what decoraitondef is |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
so i'm sorry, but i'm going to have to reduce your mod to a bunch of registrations |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
like moreores |
| 04:13 |
Exio |
hahaha |
| 04:13 |
Exio |
lovely, "I'm sorry, You need will need to be clearer and faster :(" |
| 04:13 |
Exio |
Your mod will * |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
I expected some day, someone would surpass plants_lib :) |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
i kind of feel sorry for everybody though |
| 04:14 |
hmmmm |
here they're making these mods and they put a lot of work into it |
| 04:14 |
hmmmm |
and then i come along and make it obsolete |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 04:14 |
Exio |
xD |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
that's the whole point of progress though, isn't it? |
| 04:14 |
hmmmm |
dunno |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
to make slower stuff obsolete in favor of faster, better stuff? |
| 04:15 |
Exio |
depends |
| 04:15 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
I say now pilzadam can't complain about me using plant livs |
| 04:15 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
For minitest |
| 04:16 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: eh? |
| 04:16 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
I cant add flowers cause pilzadam doesn't want to depend on plant_libs |
| 04:17 |
VanessaE |
oh. |
| 04:17 |
Exio |
wait some days |
| 04:17 |
Exio |
you will see some nice stuff in the engine repo what you are you going to like |
| 04:17 |
* Exio |
points at hmmmm with a laser |
| 04:17 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Yep |
| 04:17 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: so use the old version of flowers: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2624 |
| 04:18 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Nah |
| 04:18 |
VanessaE |
it's abm-based and uncontrolled, but it doesn't depend on plants_lib. |
| 04:18 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
I can wait |
| 04:18 |
VanessaE |
this is all offtopic though. |
| 04:18 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Pilzadam hates abms |
| 04:18 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
So... |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: now all that said, I think plants_lib may still have some use even after v7 is out, as I figure there are still some controls it implements that won't be in v7 |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
(like what? I don't know right offhand) |
| 04:19 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Will the optifine zoom pukk request be added |
| 04:19 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
VanessaE the ability to define your own biomes |
| 04:20 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
That is what will stay |
| 04:20 |
Exio |
i will implement a decent and "less hacky" zoom-thingy when a big pulls gets on upstream |
| 04:20 |
Exio |
and, the own biomes are the whole point of the mapgen v7 |
| 04:20 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: that part is being implemented in v7, the right way. my biome controls will simply get a lot leaner and faster by letting the engine do most of the work. |
| 04:20 |
Exio |
jojoa1997|Tablet: http://dev.minetest.net/Mapgen_V7 |
| 04:20 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Oh |
| 04:20 |
Exio |
Mapgen V7 is the first map generator to use the biome infrastructure, arguably its central feature. |
| 04:22 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Hmmmm you should update that wiki to give us a taster of what will be added |
| 04:22 |
Exio |
jojoa1997|Tablet: he is working on some... stuff |
| 04:22 |
Exio |
(read that as a big part of the mapgen v7) |
| 04:23 |
Exio |
i don't think an highlight would help much |
| 04:23 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Oh yeah :-D XD |
| 04:23 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
CANT WAIt for reals |
| 04:23 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
realms |
| 04:24 |
Exio |
realms? |
| 05:03 |
hmmmm |
i think kaeza's patch messed something up |
| 05:03 |
hmmmm |
i keep getting an outdated version of the binary when i run it |
| 05:03 |
VanessaE |
which patch? |
| 05:04 |
hmmmm |
the one where he moved binary builds to a separate folder |
| 05:04 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 05:04 |
* VanessaE |
checks her build |
| 05:04 |
hmmmm |
indeed it builds in src/bin now |
| 05:05 |
VanessaE |
hm, my end seems to be clean |
| 05:05 |
hmmmm |
and not bin |
| 05:05 |
VanessaE |
but I don't use the feature he introduced |
| 05:05 |
hmmmm |
this screws up run in place |
| 05:05 |
VanessaE |
oops! |
| 05:05 |
hmmmm |
MMMMMMm..... |
| 05:05 |
VanessaE |
wait that seems wrong...I don' |
| 05:06 |
VanessaE |
don't see in his patch where it would do that |
| 05:06 |
VanessaE |
aw shit |
| 05:06 |
VanessaE |
it did it on mine too |
| 05:06 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 05:06 |
VanessaE |
good thing I don't built run-in-place |
| 05:07 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
What is run in place |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
build* |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: when you prepare a package that can just be unzipped and run immediately without installing. |
| 05:07 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Ow is it a way to build |
| 05:07 |
* hmmmm |
shoots self |
| 05:07 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
Like pilzadams downloads |
| 05:07 |
hmmmm |
why did i commit this without thinking about it |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: rushed maybe? |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: perhaps, dunno |
| 05:08 |
hmmmm |
actually, looking at it, i think this might be my problem |
| 05:09 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: right, I don't see how his patch would cause this. |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR is somehow src, and i guess it used to be that CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR is ..? |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
or rather . |
| 05:10 |
hmmmm |
but where is CURRENT_BINARY defined in the first place |
| 05:10 |
VanessaE |
it got saved into CMakeCache.txt... |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
ahah |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
thank you |
| 05:12 |
VanessaE |
you're welcome :) |
| 05:12 |
hmmmm |
actually not so sure if that did the trick |
| 05:12 |
VanessaE |
(not that I've found yet where that variable is being plugged into there) |
| 05:13 |
hmmmm |
it still builds to src/bin |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
"Linking CXX executable bin/minetestserver" |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
so it conveniently omits the src/? |
| 05:14 |
VanessaE |
did you clear CMakeCache? It's set in ther,e too |
| 05:14 |
VanessaE |
-, |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
i deleted CMakeCache.txt |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
hold on |
| 05:14 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
night all |
| 05:14 |
VanessaE |
hrm |
| 05:15 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
what |
| 05:15 |
VanessaE |
night jojo |
| 05:15 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
hmmmm what do you want |
| 05:15 |
hmmmm |
uhh.. nothing... |
| 05:15 |
VanessaE |
jojoa1997|Tablet: translated, "wait a sec, this looks odd" |
| 05:15 |
VanessaE |
not "please wait for me" |
| 05:16 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
oh ok |
| 05:16 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
too tired to thinbk cya |
| 05:16 |
jojoa1997|Tablet |
yfhf |
| 05:16 |
|
jojoa1997|Tablet left #minetest-dev |
| 05:31 |
hmmmm |
done https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fbf76184f0b8ec715255ed1246e49b575fc84873 |
| 05:33 |
hmmmm |
well of course it'd work |
| 05:33 |
hmmmm |
why would you need to test changing back something to its previous state |
| 05:34 |
VanessaE |
never hurts to be doubly sure, paranoia |
| 05:34 |
VanessaE |
yup, that's got it back to normal. |
| 05:34 |
VanessaE |
(I didn't expect it not to, but I'm crazy like that) |
| 05:35 |
hmmmm |
alright - so according to the official cmake documentation, we know that kaeza's patch can't work, since it's predefined to be the source dir |
| 05:36 |
hmmmm |
which is going to bring up the question "can it be done right" |
| 05:36 |
hmmmm |
i have no idea. i really don't know too much about cmake and i'm not interested in knowing either |
| 05:37 |
VanessaE |
well the ultimate reason for the patch is to let one drop the binary into an arbitrary directory... if we know src is always the same, can we not append "../"${SOME_OTHER_VAR} <-- i.e. the relative path of the desired build folder? |
| 05:38 |
VanessaE |
it's hacky of course |
| 05:38 |
hmmmm |
oh god no |
| 05:39 |
hmmmm |
whatever i guess.. if the patch produces a tangible benefit and it works for RUN_IN_PLACE too, then sure, fine, i'll add it |
| 05:39 |
hmmmm |
i don't care how it accomplishes that task at this point |
| 05:39 |
VanessaE |
didn't think so. first thing I could think of since I understand even less of cmake. |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
i'm just going to make a bunch of little fixes now |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5961106f9ffd9e9a2bc23e4bd700f6ce07505c9a |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
vanessae, what do you think, should i fix the cave shadows? |
| 05:51 |
VanessaE |
depends on how complex of a fix it would be |
| 05:51 |
hmmmm |
i change a digit by 1 |
| 05:51 |
VanessaE |
this time of night, I'd tend to avoid.... |
| 05:51 |
VanessaE |
well in that case sure |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
yeah but then it has to compute the lighting of 47 more blocks |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
7^2 |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
(chunksize+2)^2 to be more specific |
| 05:52 |
VanessaE |
ack |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
i guess it's the price you pay for having caves above ground |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
i'll add a setting so v7 doesn't have to suffer as well |
| 05:53 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 05:53 |
VanessaE |
considering the improvements you've made to the lighting code though, would that difference really be noticable? |
| 05:53 |
VanessaE |
I mean compared to say 0.4.4 |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
no idea |
| 05:54 |
VanessaE |
hrm.. |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
i'd say so, because look at how much area you're adding to be computed.... but most of this is CONTENT_IGNORE, so it doesn't recurse |
| 05:56 |
VanessaE |
I just don't know. |
| 05:56 |
VanessaE |
part of me says no, don't fix it because of the potential performance regression, part of me says the opposite because people obviously prefer nice-looking maps |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
i'll profile a bit |
| 05:57 |
VanessaE |
yeah, I was going to suggest that |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
calcLighting() has an extremely variable execution time though |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
ok, time for bed. |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
I'm outta gas for the night. |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/96e2931c5c154262566359495d4a0b8515376947 |
| 07:47 |
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| 08:17 |
celeron55 |
< hmmmm> also, something i noticed.. when people are adding new files to minetest consisting of only their own code, it's only proper for them to put their name in the license comment, not celeron's |
| 08:20 |
celeron55 |
not doing that can be about two things: either they are simply lazy copypasters, or they want to give the rights to me - but i think doing only that for giving rights isn't really enough to make it legally effective because of the possibility of the first one... so basically the copyright notices in the files are only for the purposes of "who maybe knows about the actual license stuff" and "in what decade this code was written" |
| 08:23 |
celeron55 |
everything has been modified by so many people anyway that the end result isn't practically relicensable anyway, so IMO there's really nothing to be gained with better usage of those; i don't like my name being slapped on code i haven't written though, because it makes people think i am to blame |
| 08:25 |
celeron55 |
maybe the lines should be replaced with something like "Copyright (C) 2013 various people, look at the git commit log" 8) |
| 08:27 |
celeron55 |
i guess this the reason why FSF recommends assigning copyright to them |
| 08:27 |
celeron55 |
+is |
| 08:28 |
celeron55 |
them = the FSF itself |
| 08:55 |
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| 09:17 |
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| 09:23 |
Taoki |
Oh my, mapgen v7 is in :D |
| 09:23 |
Taoki |
Does this mean biomes are defined entirely in Lua now, and the whole alias_dirt / alias_sand / etc. things can be removed? |
| 09:24 |
sapier |
I doubt anything can ever be removed for compatibility reasons ;-) |
| 09:24 |
sapier |
but I'd be glad this would change :-) |
| 09:25 |
Taoki |
That's ok. But like, can the game function without them now? |
| 09:26 |
sapier |
I thought it always was working without only requireing it to be able to use old maps |
| 09:34 |
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| 09:38 |
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| 10:22 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, it looks like i got luajit to compile properly :) |
| 10:22 |
RealBadAngel |
with original luajit cmake files, not some copypasta |
| 10:30 |
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| 10:31 |
Calinou_ |
/home/calinou/_VCS/minetest/src/mapgen.h:133:2: erreur: ‘NoiseParams’ does not name a type |
| 10:31 |
Calinou_ |
^ can't compile |
| 10:32 |
Calinou_ |
redownloading the minetest git repo, it looks like I've got corrupt files |
| 10:33 |
RealBadAngel |
im compiling right now fresh sources, havent seen such error |
| 10:34 |
* Calinou_ |
crashes as soon as he uses make -j8 |
| 10:34 |
* RealBadAngel |
is using -j2 |
| 10:34 |
Calinou_ |
-j2 is slow |
| 10:34 |
Calinou_ |
really |
| 10:34 |
RealBadAngel |
i will try -j8 then, im compiling now time after time |
| 10:34 |
RealBadAngel |
testing luajit |
| 10:41 |
|
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| 10:42 |
Calinou |
how does one switch to mapgen v7? |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
question: make luajit enabled by default? |
| 10:42 |
RealBadAngel |
or enable it with compile option? |
| 10:43 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean which one shall be default: old lua or luajit? |
| 10:44 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, I guess we are not going to include LuaJIT src into minetest |
| 10:44 |
PilzAdam |
so use it if you find it in the system |
| 10:45 |
RealBadAngel |
im using original jit distribution |
| 10:45 |
Calinou |
what's the difference between "indev" and "v6"? they seem to be the same |
| 10:45 |
RealBadAngel |
modified only not to install libs system wide |
| 10:45 |
PilzAdam |
Calinou, farlands and float islands |
| 10:45 |
RealBadAngel |
and i got it working |
| 10:46 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, why dont you use the system wide version? |
| 10:46 |
RealBadAngel |
because we dont want to fiddle with different and incompatible versions of it |
| 10:47 |
RealBadAngel |
if we will be using one version known its good, upgrading to another will be our decision |
| 10:47 |
Calinou |
can't someone revert how plantlike nodes look now? it looks horrible sometimes since there's an horizontal symetry |
| 10:47 |
PilzAdam |
are there incompatible versions? |
| 10:47 |
Calinou |
that might be good for a few nodes, but for plants and apples it looks bad :P |
| 10:47 |
RealBadAngel |
which will be just replace jit's folder with new sources and commenting out install options |
| 10:49 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway im making jit default, if somebody will want to use old lua will disable it just |
| 10:49 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, are there any LuaJIT version that dont support our Lua version? |
| 10:50 |
RealBadAngel |
old ones? compiled with disabled lua compability? |
| 10:51 |
RealBadAngel |
you want to fight with such problems? |
| 10:52 |
PilzAdam |
I mean we have Lua already in the src tree, we dont need both |
| 10:52 |
PilzAdam |
if the LuaJIT version is incompatible or not there then fall back to Lua |
| 10:54 |
Taoki |
Anyone know if the MineTest code has a bound function? As in, bound(0, myvalue, 1); |
| 10:54 |
PilzAdam |
rangelim(x, min, max) |
| 10:54 |
Taoki |
thanks |
| 10:54 |
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| 10:55 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, afaik we DO need both |
| 10:55 |
PilzAdam |
why? |
| 10:55 |
RealBadAngel |
luajit doesnt work on some exotic platforms as hmm noticed |
| 10:55 |
RealBadAngel |
so in such cases users will be able to pick lua |
| 10:56 |
PilzAdam |
thats why I want Lua as fallback |
| 10:56 |
PilzAdam |
and use the system wide LuaJIT if present |
| 10:59 |
RealBadAngel |
forcing players to install dozens of libraries is not a good idea |
| 11:00 |
PilzAdam |
ask a package maintainer about that |
| 11:00 |
PilzAdam |
they already complain that we have jthread in the src tree |
| 11:00 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of click and play its going to be hardcore for newbies |
| 11:00 |
PilzAdam |
ehm |
| 11:01 |
PilzAdam |
n00bs will download the win version |
| 11:03 |
RealBadAngel |
so there are no noobs on other platforms? |
| 11:03 |
PilzAdam |
the n00b argument isnt good when it comes to compiling |
| 11:03 |
PilzAdam |
also, it is the same thing with gettext |
| 11:04 |
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| 11:04 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:05 |
Calinou |
it's not hard to paste a command in a terminal |
| 11:06 |
Calinou |
don't make luajit a requirement, just recommend it |
| 11:06 |
Calinou |
but packaged installs should use luajit |
| 11:06 |
PilzAdam |
^ same as gettext |
| 11:06 |
Calinou |
but luajit should be used as default when building if it is available, unlike gettext |
| 11:14 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody here who can compile on windows? |
| 11:14 |
PilzAdam |
cross compile? |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
propably both, cross and in windows |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
i will upload sources shortly, hold on |
| 11:23 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest |
| 11:23 |
RealBadAngel |
sources are up to date, luajit added, compile option -USE_LUAJIT=0 is to disable luajit and fallback to lua |
| 11:33 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, can you make win build out of this sources? |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:43 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody wanna try? https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest |
| 12:45 |
Zeg9 |
I guess I'll try |
| 12:46 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: More eye candy from me. Please test and merge if ok when you have some time; https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/609 |
| 12:49 |
Zeg9 |
RealBadAngel, fun to see luajit is about 25% of the source files to compile |
| 12:54 |
Zeg9 |
RBA: Compiles fine, but when I start a singleplayer game, it has segmentation fault. |
| 12:56 |
Zeg9 |
RealBadAngel: |
| 12:56 |
Zeg9 |
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 12:56 |
Zeg9 |
0x00007ffff578e1ed in lj_vm_cpcall () |
| 12:56 |
Zeg9 |
from /home/guillaume/Desktop/minetest/src/luajit/liblua.so |
| 12:57 |
sapier |
directly on start or on restart? |
| 12:57 |
Zeg9 |
On start of a server/singleplayer world |
| 12:57 |
sapier |
I assume on first start? |
| 12:58 |
Zeg9 |
Well, what do you mean by restart... |
| 12:58 |
Zeg9 |
oh. The world was already created |
| 12:58 |
RealBadAngel |
wonder why the hell its working fine here :) i will try to make game use system wide library |
| 12:58 |
sapier |
login in a world after logging out without closing minetest |
| 12:58 |
Zeg9 |
This shouldn't make it crash, as lua is server side (or am I wrong? lol) |
| 12:59 |
RealBadAngel |
but propably it wont be any different because jit compiles from the very same sources |
| 12:59 |
sapier |
as minetest itself doesn't cleanup anything this may result in almost anything |
| 12:59 |
Zeg9 |
I can connect fine to servers, but can't start one, either from menu or standalone server |
| 12:59 |
sapier |
to many "anythings in one sentence" |
| 12:59 |
Zeg9 |
The standalone doesn't even print something, just segmentation fault |
| 13:00 |
sapier |
if you start a server there's even more cleanup to be done after exiting a world |
| 13:01 |
Zeg9 |
Wait, I get some more warnings, I don't think it's useful though, it talks about linux-vdso.so.1 |
| 13:01 |
Zeg9 |
Yeah, it also says that with a "vanilla" server (without jit) |
| 13:03 |
sapier |
vdso is library loader |
| 13:13 |
VanessaE |
good morning all. |
| 13:19 |
Zeg9 |
Hi |
| 13:24 |
Taoki |
hi |
| 13:31 |
PilzAdam |
Taoki, why do you make it configureable? |
| 13:31 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: It makes sense to. So people can configure intensity and turn it off |
| 13:31 |
PilzAdam |
damage screen (red + camera tilt) isnt configureable |
| 13:32 |
PilzAdam |
I dont like to make too many things configureable |
| 13:34 |
Taoki |
Will remove two irrelevant options, but I'll leave at least one enabled (at least so it matches the normal view bobbing) |
| 13:35 |
Taoki |
Don't fork yet. But check if there are other issues too |
| 13:35 |
PilzAdam |
I wouldnt make it confifureable at all |
| 13:35 |
Taoki |
View bobbing is and some might want to turn it off, so it's fair enough to leave just one setting |
| 13:36 |
PilzAdam |
from what I understood its just a tilt of the camera when you hit the ground, right? |
| 13:36 |
Taoki |
teah. Similar to view bobbing |
| 13:36 |
Taoki |
**yeah |
| 13:36 |
Taoki |
People might wanna configure the intensity |
| 13:37 |
PilzAdam |
so, it doesnt appear all the time (unlike bobbing when walking) so it doesnt have to be configureable |
| 13:37 |
PilzAdam |
making too many things configureable isnt good |
| 13:37 |
Taoki |
People might still want to disable it or make it stronger. I'll switch it to only one setting for now since I do think that's fair enough |
| 13:38 |
PilzAdam |
the damage screen isnt configureable |
| 13:38 |
Taoki |
I didn't implement it, if I did it might have had a single toggle setting :P |
| 13:38 |
Taoki |
One setting won't hurt anything though |
| 13:39 |
Taoki |
Working on removing the others for now, those are indeed too much |
| 13:42 |
PilzAdam |
I say dont add a setting for it. |
| 13:42 |
Taoki |
Are there any other issues other than the settings? |
| 13:44 |
PilzAdam |
looks good, havent tested it yet |
| 13:44 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 13:50 |
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| 13:54 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Pushes a commit removing the useless settings. Still left the primary switch on however... it feels best to have that and the setting doesn't harm anything |
| 13:55 |
Taoki |
Maximum velocity now uses the jump setting, primarily for the physics configuration. That was a smart way to use an existing setting automatically :) |
| 13:58 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Actually, I can do something else and amend my commit; Have the view bobbing switch control the fall bobbing as well |
| 13:58 |
Taoki |
That would make sense actually. If you enable view bobbing you probably don't mind the falling view either |
| 13:58 |
PilzAdam |
the view bobbing is for walking |
| 13:59 |
PilzAdam |
while the tilt when falling is somehow static |
| 13:59 |
Taoki |
Yeah, but this is also view bobbing. |
| 13:59 |
Taoki |
Meant for the same purpose and effect, even if achieved by a different trigger |
| 14:00 |
PilzAdam |
isnt it just a tilt? |
| 14:00 |
Taoki |
It lightly moves the camera down and back up when you fall. Which is what view bobbing does as you walk too |
| 14:01 |
Taoki |
This is sort of a 2nd part of the view bobbing system |
| 14:01 |
PilzAdam |
it is the same effect as camera tilt on damage, right? |
| 14:01 |
Taoki |
Almost. It doesn't rotate the camera to tilt it, just lowers it |
| 14:02 |
PilzAdam |
then it has nothing to do with the walking bobbing |
| 14:02 |
Taoki |
Though I might add a bit of tilting too now that I'm working at it |
| 14:02 |
PilzAdam |
how does it look if you have the damage and the falling tilt? |
| 14:02 |
Taoki |
ok. I think it does, but if not I could do something else; Make an option for view tilting, which affects both the falling and damage tilt |
| 14:03 |
Taoki |
The effects shouldn't conflict |
| 14:03 |
Taoki |
Tilting also doesn't lower the camera, so it's all good |
| 14:04 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Anyway, I'll make an option for both the damage tilt and this, so it's a single setting that makes sense for multiple things. At least that should be good :) |
| 14:05 |
PilzAdam |
no |
| 14:05 |
PilzAdam |
you make it even worse |
| 14:05 |
Taoki |
It should have a way to be toggled since people might not like the feel with it on |
| 14:06 |
PilzAdam |
people might not like minetest, so what? |
| 14:06 |
Taoki |
Currently it only has one setting, I think it can stay as such |
| 14:06 |
Taoki |
that too :P |
| 14:07 |
PilzAdam |
I dont like the idea to make every single new feature configureable |
| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
it helps you avoid losing users. |
| 14:08 |
Taoki |
IIRC it's best to make something configurable when it makes sense to and people might want it on or off |
| 14:08 |
VanessaE |
and G*d knows, we need headcount |
| 14:08 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, why do we need users? |
| 14:08 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: because without a userbase, developers eventually get tired of bothering. |
| 14:08 |
VanessaE |
"Why do I screw with this if no one plays? fuck it, I quit." and the lie. |
| 14:08 |
VanessaE |
like* |
| 14:09 |
* Taoki |
agrees with VanessaE. It's not like we're making MineTest to go together to the moon and play it ourselves only :P |
| 14:09 |
VanessaE |
this same scenario has been played out countless times in multiple segments of the software market. |
| 14:09 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Anyway, the last commit feels like the best configuration to me. If you can go with leaving out that one setting, can you test it and see if everything is fine to go? |
| 14:09 |
VanessaE |
and it has always ended up the same: the project gets abandoned if no one besides its developers use it. |
| 14:10 |
sapier |
as far as I have experienced adding additional settings doesn't improve user acceptance ... but this may not be true for all setting options |
| 14:10 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, {{cn}} |
| 14:10 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: Many FOSS games have huge sissues with staying alive cuz not enough people like them, although they are awesome. MineTest is lucky to have people |
| 14:10 |
Taoki |
#minetest has about 100 users at all time. That's something to be very lucky about |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
at least any setting has to be documented very well in order to be accepted |
| 14:11 |
Taoki |
sapier: It is in minetest.conf.example |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
#mgv7_np_terrain = 10, 12, (350, 350, 350), 82341, 5, 0.6 |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
#mgv7_np_bgroup = 0.5, 0.3125, (350, 350, 350), 5923, 2, 0.6 |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
#mgv7_np_heat = 25, 50, (500, 500, 500), 35293, 1, 0 |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
plz tell me what this examples show ;-) |
| 14:12 |
Taoki |
Yeah, those have no description indeed |
| 14:12 |
PilzAdam |
bbl |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
# Offset, scale, spread factor, seed offset, number of octaves, persistence |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
is explanation to it ... but doesn't help much more |
| 14:12 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
yes if xou have written this code you know what offser, scale etc mean |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
but if not these settings are useless |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
I do same mistake very often |
| 14:37 |
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| 14:37 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/613 |
| 14:37 |
sapier |
just small bugfix to improve modders formspec experience |
| 14:38 |
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| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
sapier: something I'd like to see with formspecs is being able to turn off or at least reposition the default footer text |
| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
(the "Left click: Move all items[...]" one) |
| 14:41 |
sapier |
this is not formspec but inventory ... but I'll have a lok if and how this could be done |
| 14:57 |
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| 15:04 |
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| 15:21 |
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| 15:27 |
hmmmm |
guys, i disabled mapgen v7 for a reason |
| 15:27 |
hmmmm |
don't use it until it's ready |
| 15:27 |
hmmmm |
i need it in there so other patches don't screw it up |
| 15:28 |
RealBadAngel |
hi hmmmm |
| 15:28 |
hmmmm |
hi |
| 15:29 |
RealBadAngel |
i managed to merge jit into main tree but for some weird reason it compiles for some ok, for some segfaults after, for some stops during compiling |
| 15:29 |
RealBadAngel |
weirdo, im trying now using system wide one |
| 15:30 |
RealBadAngel |
for me it compiles and works flawlessly |
| 15:30 |
VanessaE |
for me, his latest attempt appears to build fine, but then segfaults as soon as I try to start a singleplayer world. |
| 15:30 |
VanessaE |
prior to that, it refused to build at all. |
| 15:37 |
sapier |
hmmmm did you already start to merge the memory leaks? if not I offer splitting it up to different topics ... still everything should be added but maybe review is easier if similar changes are linked together |
| 15:38 |
sapier |
"merge memory leaks" :-) I meant memory leak fixes of course ;-) |
| 15:56 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 15:56 |
hmmmm |
sapier, i didn't start to merge them, just the smaller pull |
| 15:56 |
sapier |
ok I'm going to split it |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
basically my intention was to go through each commit one by one and see what needs fixing and what doesn't |
| 15:57 |
sapier |
e.g. gettext cleanup can be separated |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
the noiseparams are handled in mapgen_v7.cpp the same way |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
for consistency |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
so i'll go and fix those all at once |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
biome.cpp is completely different, so i'll have to handle that separately too |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
ok no problem I'll split it in order to reduce work for you |
| 15:58 |
hmmmm |
alright thanks |
| 15:58 |
hmmmm |
btw i removed l_register_biome_groups |
| 15:58 |
hmmmm |
also, Biome doesn't have a NoiseParams anymore |
| 16:00 |
sapier |
btw the formspec fix I just posted is quite ugly imho ... I'm not quite sure why formspec was working by now but if this was correct my changes are too :-) |
| 16:01 |
sapier |
still I suggest adding it as currently only formspec is refreshed but not formspecname ... rendering new formspec useless if it depends on different name |
| 16:02 |
sapier |
would you prefere different commits or even different branches? |
| 16:29 |
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| 16:31 |
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| 16:38 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
tree with system wide luajit use if aviable |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody wants to try? :) |
| 16:43 |
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| 17:06 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Does mapgen v7 enable the new indev features too? Namely floatlands and the high spikey mountains around world edges |
| 17:07 |
hmmmm |
not in the slightest, mapgen v7 is entirely different from any other |
| 17:07 |
PilzAdam |
of course not |
| 17:07 |
Taoki |
Ahh. I thought eventually that all new mapgen features get merged in one |
| 17:08 |
Taoki |
And indev is just the beta mapgen which has features in the next release |
| 17:08 |
hmmmm |
that's not possible when these different mapgens take fundamentally different approaches to creating terrain |
| 17:08 |
hmmmm |
indev is an extension of v6 |
| 17:09 |
hmmmm |
it's currently v6, in further development so as to not break compatibility |
| 17:10 |
hmmmm |
i should probably explain this somewhere |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
hey, anybody will test jit? |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
i would like to know if it works for others |
| 17:16 |
PilzAdam |
not yet, Ill test it later |
| 17:17 |
Jordach |
RealBadAngel, testing with mesecons / digilines and worldedit operations |
| 17:17 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Would be nice if something could be done to get the important features together. For instance I'd love your v7 mapgen but without losing floatlands |
| 17:17 |
Jordach |
RealBadAngel, is luajit enabled by default or cmake option |
| 17:17 |
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| 17:18 |
RealBadAngel |
Jordach, mt will use jit if it is installed |
| 17:18 |
hmmmm |
taoki, the plan is for v7 to have its own floatlands realm occuring at ~4000 |
| 17:18 |
RealBadAngel |
if not, it will use old lua. no config options needed |
| 17:18 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Oh, ok. Not bad then :) |
| 17:19 |
* Jordach |
forgot to install apt-get luajit |
| 17:19 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: I love v7 cuz it finally gets rid of alias_dirt / alias_sand / etc. and allows defining biomes in Lua, in case I understand correctly. Wanted that for some time :D |
| 17:19 |
hmmmm |
what are you talking about, alias_dirt? |
| 17:19 |
hmmmm |
you still have aliases to nodes |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
ah |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
Yeah, I thought you could make your own biomes in v7 |
| 17:20 |
Taoki |
Or so I heard |
| 17:20 |
hmmmm |
you could, but i don't get what that has to do with node aliases... |
| 17:21 |
Taoki |
I thought node aliases are due to the C++ mapgen holing in viomes |
| 17:21 |
Taoki |
Like minetest.register_alias("mapgen_stone", "default:stone") |
| 17:21 |
Taoki |
Unless you can make your own of these in Lua, it makes sense then |
| 17:21 |
hmmmm |
nope, node aliases never had anything to do with biomes |
| 17:22 |
hmmmm |
aliases are there for flexibility |
| 17:22 |
Taoki |
Ahhh, I thought they're the C++ hooks which told the mapgen "for this part of the noise you use dirt node" |
| 17:22 |
Taoki |
Disregard what I said then, they're good :) |
| 17:23 |
hmmmm |
if for whatever reason you need to override what a certain node is, you can do that with aliases, you can also give nodes shorter names or different names, etc. |
| 17:23 |
Taoki |
yeah |
| 17:23 |
Taoki |
What does tell the C++ mapgen which node to spawn for dirt, which for desert sand, etc? |
| 17:23 |
Taoki |
Since nodes are defined in Lua but at least with < v7 mapgen biomes are hard-coded |
| 17:24 |
hmmmm |
the Server's INodeDefManager converts a string name of a node or node alias into an actual content ID |
| 17:24 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 17:24 |
hmmmm |
the v6 'biome' is a really poor excuse for a biome |
| 17:25 |
Taoki |
Will mapgen v7 remove that entirely and put even the default biomes in a script? I'd like that personally |
| 17:25 |
hmmmm |
my goal isn't to remove |
| 17:25 |
Taoki |
As in, no deffault biome in the code, only code to define them in Lua |
| 17:25 |
hmmmm |
it's 100% possible to add this new mapgen without messing around with the old one |
| 17:25 |
hmmmm |
and that's the plan |
| 17:26 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
it's not even the plan |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
it's already been done |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
it's been done 3 times in fact |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
indev, singlenode, and v7 are all their own self-contained mapgens that you can specify to use |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
none of them interfere with the others |
| 17:27 |
Taoki |
If someone wants to use v7 to make a world with only original biomes however, will it offer a way to disable the hard-coded ones? Also, will the hard-coded biomes stay enabled by default (even if not removed for compatibility) |
| 17:27 |
Taoki |
nice |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
perhaps i should explain this in more detail |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
the whole concept of a biome in V6 and indev is self-contained |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
there is an infrastructure, however, that mapgens may or may not make use of if they feel so inclined, called BiomeDefManager |
| 17:29 |
Taoki |
Ah, I understand better now |
| 17:29 |
hmmmm |
there is one BiomeDefManager associated with the EmergeManager, that contains registered biomes and noises for heat and humidity |
| 17:29 |
hmmmm |
mapgen v7 is the first mapgen to make use of this |
| 17:29 |
Taoki |
fun fun |
| 17:29 |
hmmmm |
when you register a biome, it gets added to the BiomeDefManager, which is then reflected in any mapgen that makes use of BiomeDefManager |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
this componentizes biomes and separates them from the mapgen entirely... when you want to make a change to the way biomes work, you change BiomeDefManager, which would in effect change the way biomes work for all mapgens using this infrastructure |
| 17:31 |
Taoki |
That is good |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
so this is definitely a separate entity from a mapgen |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
the way BIOMES are decided is the same way (i think) Minecraft does it |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
the whole idea of having two intersecting noises, temperature and humidity, was there the whole time, and at first I was checking if a biome was within max/min value bounds for these |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
celeron suggested I find the distance between a temperature/humidity point within space and the idealized temperature/humidity points for each biome, and choose the closest biome as the one that node is |
| 17:33 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
a very good idea |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
after looking at minecraft's code, they do it the same way |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
he also suggested that i do the same thing with the amount of variance in the terrain within a biome, but that didn't work out, since i had many more noises interacting with eachother |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
i stuck with the idea of a minimum/maximum height, there |
| 17:35 |
Taoki |
Can't understand how temperature / humidity works or what that means in map terms. I always thought of biomes as defining large areas where hills / caves / etc. have certain shapes and frequencies, and where certain types of nodes are used instead of others |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
this way i can have for height_min= -1 and height_max = 2, three possible biomes, a sandy beach, a gravely beach, or just a dirt coast |
| 17:35 |
Taoki |
So for example to define desert, you'd say "Desert biome has this frequency, uses desert stone and sand in this pattern, and has fewer mountains" |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
yeah, frequency, not so much |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
the usage of heat and humidity is much better |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
with this, you'll never see a desert occuring right next to an icy tundra |
| 17:37 |
Taoki |
yeah. Hard to understand exactly what they mean |
| 17:37 |
hmmmm |
they mean what they do in real life |
| 17:37 |
hmmmm |
you have some very hot places, which could be either very dry or very wet |
| 17:38 |
Taoki |
Ah. Heat is biome type then (snowy, green, desert, and anything in between) and humidity... I assume that's the frequency of lakes and water |
| 17:38 |
hmmmm |
if you have two biomes, jungles and deserts, this would be sort of like: heat_point = 90 for both a desert and a jungle, but humidity_point=10 for a desert, and say humidity_point=80 for a jungle |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
frequency of water is only determined by height |
| 17:39 |
* Taoki |
nods, makes more sense now |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
a body of water would be an Ocean biome |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
it'd be just one biome that occurs at negative range of terrain heights |
| 17:40 |
hmmmm |
perhaps it would make more sense if i posted the biome definions i test with |
| 17:41 |
Taoki |
Would be fun to see them and try them out :) |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
http://pastebin.com/4RJVZQ4J |
| 17:43 |
Taoki |
Ah, nice. That's more simple and clear and easy than I thought :) |
| 17:43 |
hmmmm |
of course there will be more later on. |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
the plan is to attach a list of decorations (trees, cactuses, grass, etc.) for biomes, have a list of mobs that can spawn there |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
ores |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
and i would like some client-side visual on differences in biomes, like in minecraft, how the color of the grass has a different shade |
| 17:44 |
sapier |
hmmmm I suggest mobs to decide which biome to spawn in not biome to decide which mobs |
| 17:45 |
hmmmm |
that's possible |
| 17:45 |
Taoki |
Colorizing nodes will have to wait for hardware lighting. I already coded the feature though |
| 17:45 |
Taoki |
But you won't see colors until HW lighting is implemented :P |
| 17:45 |
Taoki |
That can be used to change grass color per biome tho |
| 17:45 |
Taoki |
sapier: Agreed. It should be possible to get the biome at a certain position and take decisions off that |
| 17:45 |
hmmmm |
taoki, I'd like to actually talk to you about that |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
I have this feature that i wanted to implement, which i call the 'colorlike' node type |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
it's like facedir, wallmounted, etc. an attribute that uses param2 of nodes |
| 17:47 |
hmmmm |
so the thing is, you register along with the node that's colorlike, an RGB list of colors to use for that node |
| 17:47 |
hmmmm |
then on drawing time, the node is shaded to the color at the index specified by param2 |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
the original point of this is to eliminate the 50000 different nodes people have in mods that are the same exact thing but in a different color |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
but it can also be used for colorizing nodes in different biomes |
| 17:48 |
Taoki |
Hmm. I had my own plan for that... already in the code but not there yet |
| 17:48 |
Taoki |
Which is simply colorizing surfaces with the proper Irrlicht functions for setting surface colors |
| 17:49 |
Taoki |
However,t his requires hardware lighting. Which Minetest will eventually need, but I don't know when anyone can do it |
| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Add_colorlike_to_node_param_types |
| 17:49 |
Taoki |
Funny thing is, the functions to colorize already are in, and should work. But because there's no real light, you can't see them :P |
| 17:49 |
sapier |
btw I don't want anyone to compain about me spaming pull requests :-) all of those fixes are valid ;-P |
| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
indeed |
| 17:50 |
Taoki |
That approach would prolly be a lot better (colorizing with Irrlicht). But c55 isn't interested in coding light, I have no idea (already tried), and I don't see anyone else who might |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
hardware lighting is very difficult |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
if you want to try something, you may, but nobody else would be willing to spend time on it |
| 17:51 |
Taoki |
Yeah. But also very necessary :P |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
very necessary is cleaning up memory leaks ... adding features is benefit |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
at least thats my opinion |
| 17:56 |
Exio |
and bugfixing |
| 17:56 |
Exio |
but reworking some stuff |
| 17:56 |
Exio |
ends in stuff fixed |
| 17:56 |
Taoki |
Engine priorities as I see them now are hardware lighting and mesh optimization (to increase performance which is still very bad with long draw distance). Just how I see it that is |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
no adding features is adding bugs ... you can't avoid this ;-) |
| 17:57 |
Taoki |
IIRC block surfaces are still drawn invidivually |
| 17:57 |
Exio |
sapier: touching any code will end with new bugs |
| 17:57 |
Exio |
even fixing leaks |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
no :-) there's one operation you will fix bugs in general |
| 17:59 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Feel like finishing with the view falling code now if you have time? In case you can make that compromize to allow one setting to toggle the feature (which I'd really prefer). I tested already and it seems to work fine in all circumstances. |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
"del" is bugfixers best friend ;-) if code isn't necessary delete it ... code not present can't have bugs |
| 18:00 |
Exio |
there are some ways to fix bugs |
| 18:00 |
Exio |
one of them is rewriting the code what is bugged as hell for something cleaner, easy to understand and better than before |
| 18:00 |
Exio |
what will add news bugs, as everything |
| 18:00 |
Exio |
but at the same time will fix the bugs for what it got rewrote |
| 18:01 |
hmmmm |
taoki, indeed those are pretty important... most of us aren't decent enough with or even interested in the 3d graphics part of it |
| 18:01 |
hmmmm |
so if you don't do it, it'll probably never get done |
| 18:01 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, tested LuaJIT on Linux, seems to work fine |
| 18:01 |
sapier |
true but sometimes it's difficult to decide if code ieams to be complex becaus its wrong or complex because you didn't understand what it's doing |
| 18:01 |
hmmmm |
minetest would still live on without these fixes, but it'll just stay crappier than it could've been |
| 18:01 |
Exio |
hey, i'm interesed in that! but i don't have any idea of coding anything of what i want :P |
| 18:02 |
Taoki |
BTW. My Linux distro doesn't have luajit in its packages. Is that automatically installed with Lua itself? |
| 18:02 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, i noticed it doesnt work when theres no luajit even :) trying to fix it now |
| 18:03 |
PilzAdam |
it works for me if no LuaJIT is present... |
| 18:03 |
hmmmm |
taoki, if there's no luajit, it should fall back to regular lua |
| 18:03 |
RealBadAngel |
Taoki, http://luajit.org/download.html |
| 18:03 |
hmmmm |
that's what we're aiming for, but for some reason it seems that people are having trouble doing this |
| 18:03 |
RealBadAngel |
unpack, make, make install |
| 18:04 |
Taoki |
Probably not for me. If it's not in distro packages it probably means it's not good, popular or maintained enough :P |
| 18:04 |
RealBadAngel |
or distro is worth shit ;) |
| 18:04 |
RealBadAngel |
debian squeeze also doesnt have jit, or irrlicht 1.8 |
| 18:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and propably wont have for next few years ;) |
| 18:07 |
Calinou |
hmmmm: why not make indev the default mapgen? it works nicely and has nice features :P |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
because something in development shouldn't be the default |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
the default should be the stable, working thing that people expect |
| 18:09 |
* Taoki |
prefers v7 mapgen to be default. Erm, if it will have floatlands which I heard it will |
| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
floatlands are really the dealbreaker!? |
| 18:10 |
Taoki |
Not the most important thing, but one of the most awesome new stuff in MineTest if you ask me :) |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
hmmmm: well, it works fine |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
people use arch right? they consider it stable |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
;) |
| 18:11 |
Taoki |
I use openSUSE. And no, no bad words about it L:P |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
even if they don't exist for some reason, you can add floatlands by making a derived class of MapgenV7 and implementing the virtual function generateExperimental() |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
in much the same manner proller's indev does |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
everything is made to be super easy and extensible |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
i love changing the code and wondering why the heck it doesnt work. then realize that i was changing files in one directory, and launching game in another... |
| 18:23 |
hmmmm |
that was pretty much all last night before i realized kaeza's changes screwed up run_in_place |
| 18:24 |
hmmmm |
:/ |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
looks like i have now detecting luajit workin. |
| 18:24 |
PilzAdam |
has anyone a working LuaJIt 2.0 libary for windows hanging arround? |
| 18:24 |
hmmmm |
i wouldn'tve caught that as fast as i did if i weren't developing on 0.4.5 and just rebased to 0.4.6 |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, http://scilua.org/get.html |
| 18:29 |
PilzAdam |
there is no libary |
| 18:29 |
RealBadAngel |
indeed :( |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
and you wanted to use system wide libraries, when folks cant even download it for windows? :) |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
i found 2.0 beta, and some link on piratebay lol |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7819091/LuaJIT_2.0.0_final_binaries_for_Windows_2012-11-08 |
| 18:32 |
hmmmm |
that's pretty crazy that you'd have to resort to TPB for compiled versions of some library |
| 18:32 |
hmmmm |
but in windowsworld this is the norm because everything is so backwards |
| 18:32 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, I dont gonna download it from this site |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
theres bat file to compile it on windows |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
/src/msvcbuild.bat |
| 18:37 |
hmmmm |
i found a minor bug in the ore generation |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
hmmmm do you intend to do bigger changes in emerge manager? |
| 18:37 |
hmmmm |
sapier, i don't |
| 18:38 |
PilzAdam |
salamanderrake, could you please stop spamming with new pull reqeusts? |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
ok then I'll issue a pull request on emerge managers destructor too |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
so folks, do we want luajit to be external or bundled? |
| 18:39 |
PilzAdam |
external |
| 18:39 |
hmmmm |
it's supposed to be external |
| 18:40 |
hmmmm |
sapier you have a lot of pull requests :p |
| 18:40 |
hmmmm |
what order do i need to do this in? |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
so i think its done, need just more folks to test it |
| 18:40 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Any news on the view falling code and when we can finish it? |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
you wanted separate commits ;-P |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i will just squash it and pull |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
so you can do cherry picking from only cherrys ;-P |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
alright |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
so i can do it in any order |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 18:42 |
hmmmm |
i should probably put off the most recent ore modification then |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
btw I'm far from finished ;) |
| 18:43 |
hmmmm |
hm |
| 18:43 |
hmmmm |
the original ore code had this problem too |
| 18:43 |
hmmmm |
volume is calculated with all the chunk min/max, not the calculated bounding box of the ore |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, i pulled luajit related change |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
hope it will work for everyone |
| 18:52 |
hmmmm |
i'm expecting problems |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
like? |
| 18:52 |
hmmmm |
things we didn't expect to happen... people having rare problems with linking for some odd reason, etc. |
| 18:53 |
hmmmm |
you know it always happens |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
:) indeed |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
i thought bundled will work |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
and it did for me and kaeza, others reported strange and weird errors |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
like openal crashes |
| 18:54 |
hmmmm |
openal crashes? |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
yup, after compiling bundled jit, openal refused to work |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
completely unrelated :) |
| 18:55 |
hmmmm |
are you referring to the crash on startup on windows that has an address in the 0x62-69XXXXX range? |
| 18:55 |
hmmmm |
oh, nevermind |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
no, not on windows |
| 18:55 |
sapier |
openal isn't quite clean at either I found some problems with valgrind on linux too |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
on linux |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
but only change was bundled jit |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
vanessaE had some weird assertion errors and couldnt even complie |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
but here it worked flawlessly |
| 19:09 |
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| 19:11 |
hmmmm |
grr |
| 19:11 |
hmmmm |
have to do stuff with family |
| 19:11 |
hmmmm |
i'll merge those things when i get back, sorry guys |
| 19:31 |
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jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:50 |
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| 20:11 |
salamanderrake |
umm I'm not PilzAdam |
| 20:11 |
PilzAdam |
oh, sorry, I meant sapier |
| 20:11 |
salamanderrake |
PilzAdam, I git pulled once for each project and that was it. |
| 20:11 |
salamanderrake |
o ok |
| 20:12 |
salamanderrake |
I was worried for a min there that someone hacked my account. |
| 20:12 |
PilzAdam |
stupid nick completion :-) |
| 20:13 |
salamanderrake |
yah I get in trouble with that some times. |
| 20:14 |
sapier |
what did you mean PilzAdam? |
| 20:15 |
PilzAdam |
you have 19 (!) pull requests for you memory leak fixes |
| 20:15 |
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jojoa1997|Tablet left #minetest-dev |
| 20:15 |
sapier |
yes .... hmmm didn't want the big one it has been before |
| 20:16 |
PilzAdam |
why do you create a pull request for each one of it? |
| 20:16 |
sapier |
and if you have a look at them they're all valid bugs |
| 20:16 |
PilzAdam |
just point hmmmm to the branches on your repo |
| 20:16 |
sapier |
no just for leaks in different components |
| 20:17 |
sapier |
no I hope for some educational effect if ppl see how much memory they've lost |
| 20:17 |
sapier |
so I'm not hiding bugs |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
ok done splitting big memory/texture/mesh/sound leak patch ... now you can merge or drop those pull requests it's your decision |
| 20:28 |
sapier |
I hope i didn't miss something included in the big one |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
whatever you miss now can be looked for later. |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
that's what valgrind's for :) |
| 20:29 |
sapier |
obviously noone uses valgrind |
| 20:29 |
sapier |
but complains about too much memory leaks beeing fixed |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
sorry ... you're the last person to be guilty about this point ;-) |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
I can't even blame someone for not using valgrind with that many leaks in you couldn't even find a single error between all those minor ones |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
it's okay, I have no purpose to run that util anyway since I don't regularly code in C/C++ |
| 20:32 |
Taoki |
Is there a function to get the position of a node? I searched but can't find it anywhere... |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
don't you normaly only have a reference to a node definition? |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
so a node doesn't even have a position at all |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
entities have positions |
| 20:34 |
Taoki |
Ah... I understand. Yeah wanted from entity node definition |
| 20:34 |
Taoki |
or ID or what that is |
| 20:34 |
sapier |
node definition ... you got it by get_node? ... a little bit misleading this name |
| 20:35 |
sapier |
but if you did get_node you had the position? |
| 20:39 |
proller |
good idea for crazy mapgen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE |
| 20:46 |
Taoki |
Uh... why is it that using on_place and on_dig causes nodes to be impossible to place and dig? |
| 20:48 |
sapier |
? sorry don't understand |
| 20:49 |
Taoki |
When using on_place and on_dig in register_item, items can no longer be placed or digged |
| 20:50 |
sapier |
oh .... you may have to specify correct return value |
| 20:50 |
Taoki |
How does that work? |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
return false ... but I'm not quite sure about that but it's worth a try |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
should be written in lua_api.txt ... but I'm not sure about that either ;-) sorry |
| 20:52 |
Taoki |
Checked and didn't find much info |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
minetest.register_on_placenode(func(pos, newnode, placer, oldnode, itemstack)) |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
^ Called when a node has been placed |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
^ If return true no item is taken from itemstack |
| 20:53 |
Taoki |
Both returning true and false causes crash |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
so you've done anything else wrong ;-) |
| 20:54 |
Taoki |
no, not minetest.register_on_placenode |
| 20:54 |
Taoki |
on_place and on_dig. They're item definition properties |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
ohhh ... you have to call minetest.item_place within your function to get standard behaviour |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
passing same/modified by your function parameters to it |
| 20:56 |
Taoki |
That is confusing |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
if you don't specify anything minetest.item_place is called |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
if you specify a specific function you need to call this function from your function |
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BlockMen |
celeron55, and who ever wants know: template for dokuwiki is almost done: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/w7i3639nza56nl1/dokuwiki_prev.png |
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RealBadAngel |
that looks nice |
