| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:22 |
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| 01:37 |
SitDog |
I want to setup minetest development on my mac. Anything I should know before I start? |
| 01:41 |
hmmmm |
n0p3 |
| 02:30 |
SitDog |
i have been in dll hell on my PC getting setup. i think the mac is probably a better choice for me and I don't have to worry about juggling DLLs for my other projects. |
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| 10:38 |
Polaque |
Hello |
| 10:38 |
jin_xi |
hi |
| 10:38 |
Polaque |
Bug with disappear door if current select terrain is not empty is detect ? |
| 10:54 |
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Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://minetest.net/wiki/doku.php?id=dev_index |
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| 17:12 |
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| 17:14 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
other minecraft clones have some pretty advanced server-side features that would be really nice |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
lattice network |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
[citation needed] |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
for loadbalancing |
| 17:16 |
hmmmm |
eventually, maybe in the far future, i'd like to see something like that so minetest servers can really scale |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
i mean let's talk about what actually needs to be done |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
in the server-to-server protocol, you'd have broadcast not only to clients, but to other servers as well, block set, player position change, some other things |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
actually that's not too bad |
| 17:18 |
hmmmm |
they'd have to transfer newly generated blocks as well |
| 17:19 |
hmmmm |
but it might be faster to simply not, and in the event that a block modification is broadcast to a server where a nonexisting block is modified, it'd lazily generate it and then apply the change |
| 17:25 |
celeron55 |
i'm wondering what we should take as the base for minetest 0.5 |
| 17:25 |
celeron55 |
what can we afford to rewrite and what is worthy of keeping? |
| 17:25 |
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| 17:26 |
celeron55 |
some interested and capable individual should start trying to figure out |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
the more i think about it, the more i want to dump the database entirely and just have a huge memory mapped file we do an indirect indexing from |
| 17:27 |
hmmmm |
and store block metadata separately |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
i'm going to be able to do so much more now that school's almost over |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
farmesh i think is not worthy of keeping at all |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
sorry |
| 17:28 |
celeron55 |
i will probably have time to do some more massive things after next summer |
| 17:29 |
kotolegokot |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/issues/323 |
| 17:29 |
celeron55 |
depending on random things |
| 17:30 |
hmmmm |
hey |
| 17:30 |
celeron55 |
actually, not probably, byt maybe |
| 17:30 |
hmmmm |
did you ever consider only storing the difference between blocks |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
and having the client have a mapgen too so it generates the map and then applies the changes sent to it by the server |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
imagine how much less you'd have to store |
| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
i have considered not saving map generation results unless they have been modified, but it hasn't been practical with the generation speeds |
| 17:31 |
hmmmm |
right, just a little bit sooner and it might be practical |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
really, the new perlin noise stuff is a game changer |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
i decided against the map preview feature since my reference perlin noise implementation can already do the same |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
in order to test different parameters, what i did was make a small GTK application with the perlin noise stuff to test/debug and stuff, and also the gist of what a map would look like |
| 17:33 |
celeron55 |
for 0.5, one thing we'll have to have is flexible creation of new "voxel spaces" for the purposes of... many things |
| 17:33 |
hmmmm |
huh? like what |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
i would like to experiement with eg. allowing building of ships from nodes |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
and other moving things |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
ah |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
so you mean a huge ship made out of nodes that can move just like that |
| 17:34 |
hmmmm |
that's awesome |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
and it would also allow some miniaturized mesecon stuff or something |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
yes, that can obviously simplify pistons |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
that's what people would like, but the current codebase is hard to make do those |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
also one thing to consider is whether it is practical to retain the 0.4 scripting api or are there reasons to break compatibility |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
there'd be work for many full time employees 8) |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
what changes are you thinking of in particular? |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
dunno, really |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
it's just a question to keep in mind when figuring out new things |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
i'm a bit unsure about if we have enough experience for designing the basis for a next-gen minetest yet |
| 17:40 |
hmmmm |
i can't really see a situation where it'd be more beneficial to break compatibility than it is to just add a new version of the function and slap an Ex at the end |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
that is probable |
| 17:42 |
celeron55 |
...mostly thanks to the design principle of making the api good no matter what the insides look like 8) |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
then there is the decision of what things to allow client-side scripting to do |
| 17:45 |
celeron55 |
i think it has to be added for some things, but it is nontrivial to think of what it's responsibilities would be and what is worthwhile to include in it's api in the first place, AND how much of the actual client should be done with it then, as it would exist in any case |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
and now i remember one important thing about scripting api compatibility |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
it's the question of whether luabind would be used to ease the maintenance of the ever-growing api code |
| 17:47 |
celeron55 |
if something like that would be done, then exact compatilibity can be surprisingly hard |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
so much that the alternatives really are "compatibility or luabind/other" |
| 17:54 |
PilzAdam |
do I miss anything obvious here: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/350 ? |
| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
umm... just push it and we'll see 8) |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:16 |
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| 18:48 |
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| 18:56 |
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| 19:02 |
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| 19:08 |
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| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
i think it's quite funky how the basic structure of the engine still practically exactly is what this one had http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/File:Putkiksia.png |
| 19:33 |
PilzAdam |
heh |
| 19:38 |
celeron55 |
it just has a large bunch of optimizations, polish and a somewhat scalable content system bolted on top of it |
| 19:39 |
celeron55 |
i absolutely hate thinking about making a minecraft clone from scratch, because while the core idea is very simple, you need to throw so much stuff at it before it becomes something people consider worth using |
| 19:41 |
celeron55 |
on the other hand, i find it interesting to think of ways to make it as painless as possible |
| 19:44 |
celeron55 |
but i really don't have the passion for making minecraft-like stuff anymore; the only reason i do stuff is because i sometimes feel like fixing bugs (it is always good programming practice) or want to learn and try a bit of something new |
| 19:46 |
celeron55 |
as for the website and releases, it's kind of a different thing and the previous stuff doesn't apply to it much at all |
| 19:47 |
PilzAdam |
so, if I understand you correctly, you dont want to make a good game anymore, you just see Minetest as a sandbox to code just for fun? |
| 19:47 |
celeron55 |
no |
| 19:48 |
PilzAdam |
what do you mean by "minecraft-like features"? |
| 19:48 |
celeron55 |
of course i want to make good games, but those efforts tend to go elsewhere; i can't attempt to make a good game if i don't feel like using the end result much at all (which is the case for minetest) |
| 19:49 |
celeron55 |
and coding minetest is not usually fun; it's more of a learning thing, and about doing good things to people |
| 19:50 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: i don't see me having said "minecraft-like features" anywhere |
| 19:51 |
celeron55 |
so my question is, what do you mean by that question? 8) |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
that said, celeron55, hacking on it or modding for it IS fun for many of us |
| 19:51 |
PilzAdam |
<celeron55> but i really don't have the passion for making minecraft-like stuff anymore; |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
it connects strongly to the fact that i don't feel like playing mine* |
| 19:53 |
celeron55 |
it applies to any first-person block-building boxel game |
| 20:12 |
hmmmm |
so where did the name mineTEST come from |
| 20:13 |
hmmmm |
testing something out? |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
yep; that's what i do all time |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
it's just one of my projects of trying something out, and this particular one got a bit out of hand 8) |
| 20:37 |
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| 21:31 |
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| 22:17 |
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| 22:18 |
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| 22:18 |
Omnistudent |
Good evening |
| 22:19 |
Omnistudent |
@SitDog_ Did you get any tips on the mac develpment? |
| 22:20 |
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