| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:20 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 02:13 |
|
saschaheylik joined #minetest-delta |
| 03:00 |
* mrtux |
is away: going to bed |
| 03:38 |
|
tango_ joined #minetest-delta |
| 04:28 |
|
neko259 joined #minetest-delta |
| 04:44 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-delta |
| 04:59 |
SmugLeaf |
> he actuually listens to what his fans have to contribute |
| 05:00 |
SmugLeaf |
celeron55: I lol'ed so hard my girl asked me to shut up |
| 06:20 |
MiJyn |
celeron55 has some interesting people he likes... |
| 06:20 |
MiJyn |
so I'm not surprised he doesn't mind Mallot1 |
| 06:20 |
MiJyn |
though Mallot1 is a nice guy |
| 06:20 |
MiJyn |
or seems to be (from what I read) |
| 07:39 |
|
SpeedProg joined #minetest-delta |
| 08:30 |
|
tango_ joined #minetest-delta |
| 09:35 |
|
saschaheylik joined #minetest-delta |
| 09:49 |
|
PilzAdam joined #minetest-delta |
| 10:16 |
PilzAdam |
why do the dropped items blink? |
| 10:36 |
|
VanessaE joined #minetest-delta |
| 10:50 |
celeron55 |
invisible disco |
| 10:51 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 10:51 |
VanessaE |
"invisible disco"...a police officer with cloaked red/blue lights? :-) |
| 10:54 |
|
SpeedProg joined #minetest-delta |
| 11:31 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-delta |
| 12:22 |
|
tango_ joined #minetest-delta |
| 12:55 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 13:06 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 13:56 |
|
sapier joined #minetest-delta |
| 14:02 |
|
cisoun joined #minetest-delta |
| 14:38 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-delta |
| 15:59 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-delta |
| 16:19 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-delta |
| 16:44 |
celeron55 |
hmm |
| 16:45 |
PilzAdam |
hmm what? |
| 16:47 |
celeron55 |
i'm thinking about abusing reddit as a voting system for stuff to be included in minetest - only stuff that already exists would be allowed there; it would give a good numeric idea of what users think they need |
| 16:47 |
celeron55 |
a new subreddit for that |
| 16:48 |
celeron55 |
if anyone else thinks that is even a remotely good idea, i'll try that |
| 16:48 |
VanessaE |
it's worth a shot |
| 16:49 |
VanessaE |
but it has one possible flaw: getting everyone on the forums to actually go there; is there a way to raise an actual poll in the forum? I mean a proper one of course. |
| 16:49 |
PilzAdam |
that would be nice |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
well, there would need to be a way to vote up and down on topics |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
i'll see if there is an extension for that |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
actually no, it isn't going to work |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
it'd require pretty much exactly the behavior that reddit has, and punbb isn't going to do that by a large chance |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
http://punbb.informer.com/wiki/punbb13/extensions/pun_poll |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
such an extension apparently exists :-) |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
though doing it through reddit would be less work |
| 16:51 |
celeron55 |
that is completely different |
| 16:51 |
celeron55 |
it's the generic kind of forum poll, not even remotely useful |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
it just can't be done with punbb, which is exactly why i am looking at reddit |
| 16:55 |
PilzAdam |
if it was integrated into the forum you would get more feedback |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
of course i could just code it from scratch too |
| 16:57 |
celeron55 |
it would be at least quite unique |
| 17:02 |
celeron55 |
i'll look into this more instead of rushing with something random |
| 17:11 |
MiJyn |
Where's Mallot1? |
| 17:14 |
|
neko259 joined #minetest-delta |
| 17:26 |
Calinou |
dunno |
| 17:28 |
Calinou |
celeron55, about http://www.reddit.com/r/minetest_c55 - minetest is now LGPL, not GPL ;) |
| 17:33 |
|
sapier1 joined #minetest-delta |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
apparently there is an extension called pun_karma |
| 17:37 |
|
cisoun joined #minetest-delta |
| 17:37 |
thexyz |
that's users' karma i guess |
| 17:38 |
thexyz |
oh, i'm wrong, forget it |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
it implements voting on posts... hmm... maybe i could fork it into one that allows only for topics and doesn't do any karma thing |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
that'd allow voting for popularity |
| 17:38 |
thexyz |
just make it to be displayed only for first post in thread |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
then there'd need to be a way to make them sort by votes in a certain forum section |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
(instead of activity) |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
where can i find a list of punbb hooks with descriptions... |
| 17:42 |
celeron55 |
sorting seems to not have any hooks, it's just like: |
| 17:42 |
celeron55 |
'ORDER BY' => 't.sticky DESC, '.(($cur_forum['sort_by'] == '1') ? 't.posted' : 't.last_post').' DESC', |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
well that's pretty dumb, but at least easy to understand |
| 17:43 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 17:48 |
celeron55 |
hmm, maybe there'd be use for user karma too |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE |
well fwiw slashdotters complain about it sometimes for being misused, but it works well most of the time there. |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
well, it'll surely be misused, but it arguably gives more than takes |
| 17:50 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
by the way, i just realized punbb can sort topics per section by original post date instead of last post date too |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
that _might_ be useful for mod releases, maybe |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
probably not |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE |
YES |
| 17:52 |
celeron55 |
then stuff like mesecons will go very far down on the list |
| 17:52 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 17:52 |
celeron55 |
but on the other hand, currently the place on the list is determined by loud-mouth trolls |
| 17:53 |
celeron55 |
eh, how stupid i am? it could use the vote sorting too, if i can implement it |
| 17:53 |
VanessaE |
"loudmouth trolls" heh |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
altough it'd need a certain initial popularity boost time for each mod when they are moved |
| 17:54 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 17:55 |
VanessaE |
but how to be fair with that? |
| 17:55 |
celeron55 |
...the best way to do this would be to have different "views" of the same section |
| 17:55 |
celeron55 |
one for last post, one for original post and one for popularity |
| 17:55 |
celeron55 |
...i bet this is not going to be easy |
| 17:57 |
celeron55 |
is there anyone in here with more familiarity with the punbb codebase than me at roughly 10 minutes? |
| 17:59 |
|
PilzAdam joined #minetest-delta |
| 18:00 |
celeron55 |
oh wait, there IS a hook that can modify the query before it is used |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
by looking at the code, pun_karma doesn't use it though |
| 18:07 |
sapier1 |
hello, I've got a huge problem with animals mod I most likely won't be able to fix on my own. Is anyone here interested in animals mod enough to help me? |
| 18:08 |
* PilzAdam |
is |
| 18:09 |
sapier1 |
the problem is the lookup you found too ... I don't find any direct reason why this happens with animals mod enabled. |
| 18:11 |
sapier1 |
I've replaced the warning you mentioned by timings read from luasocket. By now I can tell there ain't any abm nor onstep handler running more thatn 200ms |
| 18:12 |
PilzAdam |
do you know if it caused by loading the new area and placing animals there or by unloading the old area? |
| 18:12 |
sapier1 |
but, as soon as map generation and transfer to client start happening there occurs a lockdown consuming all memory and crashing with bad_alloc after some time |
| 18:13 |
sapier1 |
can't really tell as both happens same time |
| 18:13 |
PilzAdam |
you can check it with static spawnpoint: load both areas and then die in the non spawn area |
| 18:13 |
sapier1 |
wait, loading is at least one of the cases. If world is in some state entering world will cause lockdoen |
| 18:14 |
sapier1 |
as nothing should be unloaded on enter enter loading is a problem for sure ... this doesn't tell unloading might be one too |
| 18:15 |
celeron55 |
run it in a debug build in gdb and get a backtrace |
| 18:15 |
sapier1 |
that has been one of the things i did first ... didn't give any hard evidence |
| 18:16 |
sapier1 |
what I've discovered is that emerge thread is waiting for mutex and doesn't seem to get it |
| 18:16 |
sapier1 |
while server thread does collision handling exceptions because of not loaded blocks |
| 18:17 |
sapier1 |
InvalidPositionException to be precise |
| 18:17 |
sapier1 |
and the bad_alloc always happens in adding a cbox |
| 18:17 |
sapier1 |
at least all the times i did debug |
| 18:18 |
sapier1 |
and it doesn't seem to happen in single player but I'm not sure if this isn't only a timing issue |
| 18:19 |
PilzAdam |
i had the bug in sinleplayer |
| 18:19 |
sapier1 |
ok this is a strong hint it's timing only that it ain't happening in singleplayer for me |
| 18:22 |
sapier1 |
it's been improoving with reduced cpu load by animals mod and by removing other mods |
| 18:22 |
celeron55 |
you're just overcomplicating things |
| 18:22 |
PilzAdam |
i didnt used any mod except animals when the bug appeared (and worldedit) |
| 18:23 |
celeron55 |
based on what i have heard thus far the collision detection goes to an infinite loop due to some reason, while it should not do that in any case |
| 18:23 |
sapier1 |
true but without other mods i sometimes need half an our to trigger the bug |
| 18:23 |
celeron55 |
(as a probable guess) |
| 18:24 |
PilzAdam |
there should be engine side collision detection |
| 18:24 |
sapier1 |
it is engine side collision detection that probably is looping |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
eh |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
we are exactly talking about engine-side collision detection |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
sapier1: make the loops in the collision detection to print some values and also before and after the loops and see how the output looks |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
if a backtrace doesn't help, then extensive logging does help |
| 18:27 |
sapier1 |
I've already tried but probably I didn't recognize something so I'll do again. Will minetest 0.4.1 be good or only latest version? |
| 18:28 |
sapier1 |
the bug occurs on both |
| 18:29 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, <offtopic>calling object:punch() method in lua is somehow starnge. Do you know how to call it correctly? This does not work http://pastebin.com/tv75Z1D9</offtopic> |
| 18:30 |
PilzAdam |
(the "fixme" is not in the orginal code ) |
| 18:38 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 19:11 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 19:20 |
sapier1 |
is speed within core is 1/10 blocks per second am I right? |
| 19:21 |
celeron55 |
most likely |
| 19:22 |
sapier1 |
ok I've debugged a cas with an y-speed of -1353 so this is -135 blocks per second ... seams really bad to me |
| 19:23 |
sapier1 |
probably a mob doing skydiving :-( |
| 19:23 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam (altough already gone; somebody ask him to look at log): i don't really know, but that exact code seems to be punching the object by itself, which... might act weirdly |
| 19:24 |
sapier1 |
does falling player have a maximum speed? |
| 19:24 |
celeron55 |
sapier1: that shouldn't really be possible in any regular case, objects should collide with non-loaded ground... |
| 19:24 |
celeron55 |
unless they don't |
| 19:25 |
sapier1 |
135 is free fall of just a little bit more than 14 seconds |
| 19:26 |
sapier1 |
collision handling checks all blocks from old pos to new pos so at that speed it really has lots of blocks to check |
| 19:28 |
sapier1 |
I'll try adding som sort of maximum y acceleration to animals mod to ensure this ain't just a side effect |
| 19:29 |
sapier1 |
max y speed not acceleration of course |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
that is not a fix, it's a horrible hack which most likely doesn't even work properly |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
you need to debug the collision code more; if it works correctly, there simply is no way something can go at 135nodes/s speed without immediately stopping |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
except if there is a bug of some kind |
| 19:32 |
sapier1 |
ok |
| 19:41 |
sapier1 |
ok collision code seems to be correct, speed is result of 94 nodes/s (new debug case) of a really high dtime 10.02 * acceleration of 9.81 nodes/s |
| 19:42 |
sapier1 |
so you were right fixing in animals mod wouldn't have fixed anything |
| 19:44 |
|
tango_ joined #minetest-delta |
| 19:45 |
sapier1 |
looks to me like a vicious circle one entitie moving fast adding delay to dtime ... making next dtime even longer so adding additional dtime |
| 20:06 |
sapier1 |
celeron55 seems long dtimes while having entities beeing accelerated are the problem ... I've tried to limit dtime for collision calculation to 0.5 and didn't have the bug for about 15 minutes |
| 20:07 |
|
Hey joined #minetest-delta |
| 20:07 |
sapier1 |
this explains why it happens on load/unload of areas too as these operations probably increase dtime |
| 20:08 |
Hey |
Folks I am new, how can I contribute? |
| 20:11 |
sapier1 |
I don't know what do you think you can provide? |
| 20:13 |
Hey |
I have good knowledge of AI and mathematics. I can write codes too. |
| 20:14 |
Hey |
I need some experience in the game industry. |
| 20:15 |
sapier1 |
mintest ain't exactly gaming industry ;-) |
| 20:17 |
Hey |
I think so ;-), but it seems like a way to get experience. |
| 20:17 |
sapier1 |
speaking of AI you're talking about ai lik in games or telephone call answering machines? |
| 20:17 |
MiJyn |
Hey, there is not a lot of AI and math involved in minetest |
| 20:17 |
Hey |
Artificial Intelligence: Searching Techniques!! |
| 20:18 |
MiJyn |
I'd recommend going a bit higher-scale (minetest vs another game is like enemylines vs CoD) |
| 20:19 |
Hey |
Thanks MiJyn, I'd be glad if you suggest me some other open source projects instead. |
| 20:21 |
MiJyn |
depends what you are interested in |
| 20:22 |
sapier1 |
the question is how much time do you want to spend? in my opinion minetest ain't a fast solution to gain experience |
| 20:22 |
Hey |
Any kind of game with AI in it. |
| 20:22 |
sapier1 |
it's more like a hobby |
| 20:23 |
MiJyn |
Hey, well there are millions |
| 20:23 |
Hey |
:-) Say puzzles |
| 20:23 |
MiJyn |
minetest _does_ have a bit (like bots or animals), but it's totally unofficial, and you can barely do anything (it's SO slow that if you provide some more complicated math stuff, it'll take hours) |
| 20:24 |
MiJyn |
Hey, hmm... chess? :P |
| 20:24 |
MiJyn |
on that note, ever saw that 1KB chess engine? |
| 20:24 |
MiJyn |
chess engine + chess game |
| 20:25 |
Hey |
No I haven't seen |
| 20:25 |
Hey |
I was checking the Wikipedia entry for open source games |
| 20:25 |
MiJyn |
http://js1k.com/2010-first/demo/750 |
| 20:25 |
MiJyn |
ah |
| 20:25 |
MiJyn |
yes |
| 20:25 |
Hey |
As you said it's a long list |
| 20:25 |
Hey |
Thanks |
| 20:26 |
MiJyn |
if you _really_ wanted to use math (and wanted to spend time), the #1 on the list is FlightGear |
| 20:27 |
Hey |
Thanks, I have a master's in math and a master's in computer science |
| 20:28 |
Hey |
I already graduated |
| 20:28 |
MiJyn |
nice! |
| 20:28 |
Hey |
I have been thinking lately that Game Industry is a good place for me |
| 20:29 |
MiJyn |
or Frictional Games :P |
| 20:29 |
MiJyn |
If you are good in physics, the BulletPhysics project would love to have contributors |
| 20:29 |
MiJyn |
I think that Frictional Games has the awesomest physics engine ever! |
| 20:29 |
Hey |
My physics sucks! |
| 20:29 |
MiJyn |
ah |
| 20:29 |
MiJyn |
same for me :P |
| 20:30 |
Hey |
What is Frictional Game? |
| 20:31 |
MiJyn |
It's an indie game company (the one that made Amnesia and Penumbra) |
| 20:31 |
MiJyn |
I don't know if they are hiring |
| 20:31 |
Hey |
Oh man |
| 20:32 |
Hey |
I have applied for like 20 positions these two days |
| 20:32 |
Hey |
I got an interview tomorrow |
| 20:34 |
Hey |
The problem is that I have been involved with theory for like 5 years, so right away I'm not a fast coder. |
| 20:34 |
Hey |
And besides I have not been in the industry |
| 20:50 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 20:57 |
|
NakedFury joined #minetest-delta |
| 21:08 |
|
mrtux joined #minetest-delta |
| 22:02 |
|
NakedFury joined #minetest-delta |
| 22:30 |
|
PilzAdam joined #minetest-delta |
| 22:31 |
sapier1 |
celeron wants you to view log of this chat adam |
| 22:33 |
PilzAdam |
thx |
| 23:06 |
|
LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta |
| 23:48 |
|
sapier1 left #minetest-delta |
| 23:48 |
|
saschaheylik joined #minetest-delta |
