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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-08-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

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02:27 hmmmm [05:57 PM] <sfan5> this is awfully documented and by awful I mean not at all
02:27 hmmmm :/
02:27 hmmmm i did the hud
02:28 hmmmm probably should've made a "getcolor" function that takes either a word, hex integer, or RGB(x,y,z) like html
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02:33 hmmmm in regard to desour's thing, eugh, he's right, it is horror C++ stuff
02:33 hmmmm jfc C++17 is not needed
02:33 hmmmm did you know that C++ has optional already?
02:33 hmmmm so does C
02:33 hmmmm it's called "NULL"
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02:34 hmmmm C++ standards get too bloated and integrate stuff from other languages that those other languages have because they don't have what C++ has already
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07:35 rubenwardy std::optional allows for ownership
07:35 rubenwardy ie: when the optional goes out of scope, the thing inside is deconstructed
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08:52 Noclip[m] How do I make a player run a command?
08:53 Noclip[m] (From within the lua API)
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10:50 MTDiscord <j45> You might want to look at the sudo command that elidragon has (https://github.com/EliasFleckenstein03/elidragon/blob/master/commands.lua#L60)
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11:35 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix server-only builds on older CMake versions (#11566) fad835c https://git.io/JEOTB (2021-08-23T11:33:25Z)
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12:08 BuckarooBanzai !seen DrFrankenstone
12:08 MinetestBot BuckarooBanzai: drfrankenstone was last seen at 2021-02-10 11:11:31 UTC on #minetest
12:10 BuckarooBanzai !tell DrFrankenstone can you disclose your workflow for the panoramic images here: http://panoramas.minetest.land/ ? thank you :)
12:10 MinetestBot BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when DrFrankenstone is around
12:11 sfan5 wow those look nice
12:11 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Inventory: Fix rare out-of-bounds access eea488e https://git.io/JEOOj (2021-08-23T12:10:17Z)
12:11 MinetestBot [git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Use utf-8 for the Irrlicht clipboard (#11538) dad87a3 https://git.io/JEO3e (2021-08-23T12:09:50Z)
12:11 sfan5 I think someone proposed a 360° mode as a PR once, might be that
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14:29 BuckarooBanzai Ah, something like #8475 ?
14:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8475 -- Add cube map and equirectangular rendering mode by srifqi
14:30 BuckarooBanzai I tried to stitch some screenshots together with hugin but had pretty awful results :/
14:31 sfan5 yeah like that
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19:43 nisa What's the main communication channel?
19:48 sfan5 this one?
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20:14 MinetestBot [git] JosiahWI -> minetest/minetest: Set policies through CMake 3.9 to allow enabling IPO (#11560) ef84c3b https://git.io/JE3xl (2021-08-23T20:13:47Z)
20:14 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Fix 6th line of infotext being cut off in half (#11456) 63e8224 https://git.io/JE3x8 (2021-08-23T20:13:17Z)
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20:47 sy Hey, if I'm making a model of my house, should 1 block be half a metre or 1 metre?
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20:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Usual in-game scale is 1 node = 1 meter, but you can make scale models.
20:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are also options for changing player size which effecively changes the scale of nodes
20:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Openblox for example has nodes that are something like 25cm
20:49 sy interesting
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20:50 sy my first issue is the doorway is technically 150cm, which can be rounded to 2 blocks
20:50 sy but at 50cm/block the door can be placed in the middle with no problem
20:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Actual doors, if you use the ones built into most games, are typically 2m tall by 1m wide, so that often constrains how close to exact scale you can get if you include moving parts like those
20:52 sy indeed, well it'll be a good estimate
20:52 sy finally homedecor is needed
20:53 sy where does time go when i play??
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21:00 sy alright this will be very interesting
21:00 sy running around with a measuring tape while playing minetest! :D
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21:32 sy this is quite impossible, I would need more than one nodebox per node
21:33 sy ah well, if not accurate, pretty
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22:21 independent56 Hello. My new domain is 56i.ddns.net. It is truly dynamic. However, i will be down at 00:00 BST as the router is being taken down.
22:21 sfan5 why a new one?
22:22 independent56 56i.duckdns.org won't update automatically
22:22 independent56 And i refuse to continue doing things by hand
22:23 sfan5 well set up a script as described on the website?
22:23 sfan5 unless you did that for your new domain it won't update automatically either
22:30 independent56 I have used the no-ip DUC.
22:32 independent56 And wow, i didn't realise :facepaklm:
22:36 independent56 Both domains are now automagic
22:38 independent56 Second domain deleted
22:46 Noclip[m] How do I make a message get printed at the start of the game?
22:46 Noclip[m] And why does minetest.chat_send_all() not work for that?
22:47 sfan5 I'm sure it does just nobody is present at the point the code runs
22:47 Noclip[m] Ok, how do I delay it then?
22:47 sfan5 look into register_on_joinplayer
22:48 Noclip[m] Is there something like a sleep command?
22:49 Noclip[m] (I'm not having a specific goal here, I'm just trying to get into Minetest modding.)
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22:50 sfan5 literally sleeping would be bad because it would lock up the server
22:50 sfan5 I could tell you about minetest.after but that's not really better
22:51 Noclip[m] Does it also lock up the server?
22:51 sfan5 it does not, wouldn't be very useful then
22:51 Noclip[m] Why is it not really better then?
22:52 sfan5 it's not "better" for your situation in the sense that if you actually want to "show a message at game start" you need to decide whether you only want to show it to the first player or all, once or each time and then look at register_on_joinplayer
22:52 sfan5 if you're just playing around do whatever
22:54 Noclip[m] How would you implement a timer which waits a few seconds after the player run a command and then does something?
22:54 sfan5 with minetest.after of course
22:55 Noclip[m] Would a literal sleeping lock the server up here, too?
22:56 sfan5 it always would
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22:58 Noclip[m] I have no idea how the lua api is implemented but I would assume that the function which gets called by the command runs in parallel to the rest of the server. "it always would" -> Well then my assumtion/understanding is probably wrong.
22:58 sfan5 indeed, it doesn't run parallel
22:59 Noclip[m] Running in parallel and multi-threading are two different things, are they?
23:01 sfan5 I would consider those to be the same
23:02 Noclip[m] (A single processor can run several programs at the "same time" by jumping around between them.)
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23:06 Noclip[m] Mhh, maybe my understanding of multithreading is wrong.
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23:29 MTDiscord <Ronoaldo> You could technically run two parallel tasks in two single-threaded computers... But they usually are the same yes... When I hear multi-threading I usually think of single machine running with multiple cores and parallel not necessarily on the same machine... I the Minetest context then I guess it's indeed the same.
23:30 Noclip[m] "Mhh, maybe my understanding of multithreading is wrong." -> My understanding seems to be right.
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23:32 Noclip[m] Of course there is a difference between running literally at the same time and running seemingly at the same time.
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23:36 Noclip[m] sfan5: So Minetest does always only one thing at a time?
23:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minetest has a number of threads but there's one that's massive
23:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Probably about 80% of the CPU time is in one thread, so that eats one core, and the rest goes into 25% of another core.
23:39 Noclip[m] Is there a difference between the word "thread" in regards to a) processor threads and b) threads of a program/process?
23:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> They are different things, but I think meant to imply similar things
23:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> A "thread" generally refers to a part of a thing that has its own independent timeline but is still not separable from its parent
23:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The thread of a core is still part of a core and doesn't have e.g. its own memory management or even scheduling.
23:45 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Process threads don't generally have (much of) their own memory either and don't have the same level of boundary that processes do
23:46 Noclip[m] Ohh okay, I thought "thread" always referrs to processor core threads.
23:48 Noclip[m] That also explaines then why I thought "multithreading" and "parallel running" are two different things.
23:50 Noclip[m] Warr1024: So just to make this clear: You can have multiple threads of a process running inside a single cpu thread?
23:50 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yes
23:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Er, not at the same time
23:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> They time-division multiplex
23:52 Noclip[m] And in programming "multithreading" usually referrs to threads of a process and not to threads of a cpu core, right?
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> So a software thread is the unit of concurrency into which software is broken down, and hardware threads are units of concurrency into which hardware is broken down, and the scheduler has to pick software threads and assign them to hardware threads, and swap them around to keep any from starving.
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> In programming, multithreading generally means breaking software up into multiple threads that COULD run concurrently, or could be scheduled in any order.
23:53 Noclip[m] I guess that means "yes" then.
23:53 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Generally software does not need to match hardware in terms of threading
23:54 MTDiscord <Ronoaldo> This could be helpful to compare parallelism and multi-threading... https://www.perforce.com/blog/qac/multithreading-parallel-programming-c-cpp
23:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Ideally, software that has high performance demands should try to spread its workload out between threads such that each CPU thread is capable of running something ... but it's not always that clear-cut because there can be trade-offs.
23:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Threads have overhead, so in theory you could future-proof your software by using hundreds of even thousands of threads, but the overhead would be bad on real-world current-day CPUs.
23:54 MTDiscord <Ronoaldo> "Parallel programming is the process of using a set of resources to solve a problem in less time by dividing the work."  "Multithreaded programming is programming multiple, concurrent execution threads. These threads could run on a single processor. Or there could be multiple threads running on multiple processor cores."
23:55 Noclip[m] Yea, I see now. It's crazy how I thought all the time before that "multithreading" always referrs to seperate cpu threads or even cores. Understanding this now makes the world look quite a bit different, lol.
23:55 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Multithreading is sort of like a type of parallel programming technique.
23:55 MTDiscord <Ronoaldo> Exactly
23:56 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Multithreading could loosely be thought of as programming (especially if converting previously single-threaded purely-sequential software) to take advantage of multiple hardware threads by splitting it up into multiple parallel sequences.
23:56 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Some programming languages like erlang are designed to be more parallel-first by nature and the compiler is responsible for arranging things into sequences.
23:58 MTDiscord <Ronoaldo> I find this video from one if the authors of the Go programming language quite interesting on the subject of concurrency vs parallelism, which is even more interesting perhaps:  https://youtu.be/oV9rvDllKEg
23:58 Noclip[m] I thought parallel programming would be the norm for pretty much any bigger (I consider Minetest as "bigger") program and multithreading would just refer to making more efficient use of the cpu's hardware threads.
23:58 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Once upon a time I tried to learn Erlang and I think I understood the brilliance of the concept, somewhat, but never found an application for the language.  I've since learned a good bit about the lisp family of languages (and even written my own interpreters and such) so it might be worth another shot...
23:59 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I've never really bothered distinguishing concurrency vs parallelism much because most of the people I talk to don't seem to make the distinction either.

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