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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-03-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:16 Wuzzy rubenwardy: hrm. the image in 9-sliced image buttons bleeds over, however. :/ https://satoshiupload.com/images/tcoAsSUfrp.png
00:16 rubenwardy :'(
00:16 Wuzzy any idea on how to prevent making the image bleed into the border?
00:16 rubenwardy oh no, hmm
00:16 rubenwardy I don't think it's supported yet
00:17 Wuzzy other than shrinking the image itself ๐Ÿ™‚
00:17 rubenwardy you could probably add a padding in the image or using texture modifiers
00:17 Wuzzy these are item_images
00:17 rubenwardy surely it resizes to fix? shrinking wouldn't help
00:17 rubenwardy the ones to the right are?
00:17 Wuzzy yes the book question mark etc
00:18 Wuzzy i only mean those
00:18 Wuzzy ignore the rest ๐Ÿ˜›
00:18 rubenwardy oh really, ok
00:18 rubenwardy item_image_button seems stange for the non-book stuff?#
00:18 Wuzzy i suppose mt could do this automatically even. minetest knows the size of the slices
00:18 Wuzzy just make the image fit in neatly into the center slice
00:19 df458 I can confirm that behavior, looks like all button content has no problems overflowing the slices
00:19 df458 We should consider changing that
00:19 rubenwardy it looks like it's not overflowing though? Just reaching
00:19 Wuzzy oh sorry
00:19 Wuzzy wrong wording
00:19 df458 Err, overflowing the center
00:19 rubenwardy the 9-slice size may not be the desired padding, so having a padding option would be good
00:19 Wuzzy its not about padding ...
00:19 rubenwardy it is
00:20 rubenwardy the item image should be have padding inside the button
00:20 Wuzzy and how would the padding work in your opinion?
00:20 rubenwardy style[btn1;padding=20] ย  ย  ย  ย  ย -> ย 20 pixels from each edge to the content of the button
00:20 rubenwardy although
00:21 rubenwardy this should have a default that is non-zero
00:21 Wuzzy yes
00:21 rubenwardy because the default border button shouldn't have it touching the edge
00:21 Wuzzy the default should be size of the border (which minetest knows)
00:21 rubenwardy also, it would be in inv units not pixels, probably
00:21 rubenwardy yeah
00:22 Wuzzy so that by default, the image is drawn neatly inside the center slice. no need to fiddle around with custom pixel values
00:22 rubenwardy yeah
00:22 rubenwardy hm
00:22 Wuzzy the benefit of this is that it would also work in texture packs for free ๐Ÿ™‚
00:22 Wuzzy oh wait
00:23 Wuzzy hmmm texture packs cant really tweak the dimensions of 9slice i guess
00:23 rubenwardy correct, unfortunately
00:23 Wuzzy anyway not that of a big deal
00:23 Wuzzy could be a problem if the original image is tiny
00:23 rubenwardy we could hypothetically add a system where texture packs can define styles for certain formspecs
00:23 Wuzzy like 6ร—6 pixels
00:23 rubenwardy it'll scale up then right?
00:24 rubenwardy this could be reused by formspec prepends
00:24 rubenwardy this being <rubenwardy> we could hypothetically add a system where texture packs can define styles for certain formspecs
00:24 Wuzzy hmmmmm i dont know if upscaling works
00:24 Wuzzy if you have a original image of 32ร—32 pixels...
00:24 Wuzzy and you say the center is... whatever... at 9,9
00:24 rubenwardy if it doesn't then this should probably be considered a bug
00:25 Wuzzy well the thing is you must specify absolute pixel values for the center
00:25 rubenwardy huh?
00:25 Wuzzy bgimg_middle
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00:25 rubenwardy oh right, I'm getting mixed up
00:25 rubenwardy could be a problem with images of 6x6pixels using 9slice
00:26 rubenwardy I thought you were referring to images of 6x6 pixels inside a button - which should be scaled up to fit
00:27 Wuzzy awww. tabheader color still doesnt work ๐Ÿ™
00:27 Wuzzy oh well. maybe next time ๐Ÿ˜†
00:28 rubenwardy yeah, unfortunately I couldn't work that out
00:28 rubenwardy it'll probably need to be pulled into our code and fixed
00:28 rubenwardy I'd also like to see the tabs in a tabheader be buttons
00:28 Wuzzy I remember OldColder claimed to have fixed it in Final Minetest, however
00:28 rubenwardy he modified Irrlicht to do so
00:28 Wuzzy you actually looked at it?
00:28 rubenwardy the color is defined in a skin
00:28 rubenwardy no, a guess
00:29 Wuzzy hmmm strange. i dont think i have seen irrlicht inside the repo...
00:29 rubenwardy we could change the skin - we actually have our own version - but it's not specific to a particular tabheader or even tabheaders in general iirc
00:29 rubenwardy he has a fork of irrlicht for building with, I know this from the spam
00:30 rubenwardy it is possible to change the color of the tabheaders, but I wanted to move away from Irrlicht's skins into our own styles
00:30 rubenwardy I believe it's here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gui/guiSkin.cpp#L808
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00:33 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> I'd also like to see the tabs in a tabheader be buttons
00:33 rubenwardy not in the formspec format, but internall
00:33 rubenwardy it'll mean that we'll be able to share code for drawing the buttons, and also styling
00:33 rubenwardy there will need to be a new style state - selected
00:34 rubenwardy style state #9378
00:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9378 -- Formspecs: Add state-selection to style elements by Df458
00:35 rubenwardy yeah, I got confused - since I looked at tab headers, we have pulled in the Irrlicht code (skins) that draws them. But it creates difficulties with linking up with formspecs that mean that I'd rather not change the skin too much
00:35 Wuzzy rubenwardy: heh. in Pixture/Repixture, the "tabs" are also implemented as buttons ๐Ÿ™‚
00:36 Wuzzy or image_buttons, to be precise
00:36 rubenwardy yeah, the tabheader isn't strictly needed but is nice
00:36 df458 I suspect 'checked' that was mentioned in the thread could work for this, since it's intended for on states in toggle buttons and checkboxes
00:36 rubenwardy oh yeah
00:36 rubenwardy that's a good one
00:36 df458 But that doesn't exist yet ofc
00:36 rubenwardy tabheader really starts to get interesting when you allow binding sub-containers for it, for each tab
00:37 rubenwardy although, where "interesting" means "you get latency free tab switching"
00:37 rubenwardy at the cost of slower initial formspec showing, heh
00:38 rubenwardy I want there to be loads of discussion on #9358 so it can be started for 5.3.0-5.4.0
00:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9358 -- Formspec Refactor
00:40 rubenwardy supertuxkart uses Irrlicht GUIs, and they already have a container based thing up and running: https://github.com/Benau/stk-code/blob/0ca3e4725708e5b325f9a36596ab949b6a0706ca/data/gui/screens/help7.stkgui#
01:26 Wuzzy rubenwardy: so this just happened: https://satoshiupload.com/images/9mJuFLKLUP.png
01:26 Wuzzy i dont think if i can change the texxt color as well :/
01:26 rubenwardy Hmmm
01:27 Wuzzy for the buttons, yes. but not for the rest
01:27 rubenwardy It is just the label and text area text?
01:27 rubenwardy Ah ok
01:27 rubenwardy I've been meaning to make a test formspec for white theming in the formspec test mod in minimal
01:28 Wuzzy i have already assimilated your latest changes to the formspec test into devtest ๐Ÿ™‚
01:28 Wuzzy whats your plan with "white theming"?
01:30 Wuzzy rubenwardy: ohhh. no i remember why i didnt use formspec_prepend to set the background...
01:30 rubenwardy Yay
01:31 Wuzzy this is why:
01:31 Wuzzy https://satoshiupload.com/images/xA8Lb0i1Qw.png
01:31 rubenwardy Bunch of styles applied on top of the real coordinates test (which shows lots of elements) so that things that aren't light themed will stand oit
01:31 rubenwardy Ah yeah
01:31 Wuzzy this screenshot shows the Creative Inventory, but there's a background9 in formspec_prepend
01:31 Wuzzy i wonder if there's a way to get rid of it
01:31 rubenwardy No_prepends such a bit, we could use a clear backgrounds tag
01:32 Wuzzy yeah but then I will lose all other info in my formspec_prepend such as tooltip color
01:32 rubenwardy Which is why it would be good to be able to clear just the background
01:33 Wuzzy yea
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11:48 Quiark here's my experimental tool for sending Lua commands to minetest while it's running
11:48 Quiark https://github.com/Quiark/mtrepl
11:51 Quiark using some tricks you may be even able to update tool/node behaviour at run time (by redefining the functions)
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12:09 shangul Quiark, REPL? Like Lisp's???
12:10 yrungr i want to make regular backups of my minetest server. is it necessary to shut the server down to do this? i'm guessing since sqlite is a text based file i can just copy that whenever i want, unlike mysql.
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12:11 nalkri Everything needs a REPL
12:12 norkle its a game no need to backup.
12:12 sfan5 sqlite is not a text based file
12:13 yrungr ok. file based database.
12:13 sfan5 anyway not sure if copying an sqlite without locking will just work
12:15 Quiark yeah would also have some concern about that. You should test it a bit first. If you switch to Postgres then backups should be more reliable imho
12:15 Quiark repl like lisp is kinda the idea but right now it's still far, mainly it doesn't send back the result :P
12:16 yrungr https://www.sqlite.org/backup.html
12:16 Quiark unfortunately Lua's support for executing received snippets doesn't give me almost any info about errors occuring in that snippet
12:18 yrungr hmm. copying the database takes 0.114 seconds. i don't think anyone would notice it being locked for that time.
12:18 yrungr cool.
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17:17 sprutsel_brululu i have an question: can you add new properties to registered nodes via lua api?
17:18 sprutsel_brululu not nodes but entities in general
17:20 DS-minetest nodes are very different from entities
17:20 sprutsel_brululu yea nodes are fixed on the map while entities are walking around and have damage and shit yea
17:20 DS-minetest not only that
17:20 sprutsel_brululu but i meant entities in a generic sense, as in stuff you register
17:20 DS-minetest you can change some entity properties per entity
17:20 DS-minetest ah
17:21 sprutsel_brululu not per entity but globally
17:21 DS-minetest node and item defininitions are only sent once to the client, when they join
17:21 sprutsel_brululu i only want to do it once when the mod starts
17:22 DS-minetest there are functions to override registered stuff
17:22 DS-minetest like .override_node
17:22 sprutsel_brululu e.g. i want to modify default definitions to add property of mass to everything which will be used for other stuff
17:24 DS-minetest you could also make your own table where you store for each of the registered things (whatever you want here exactly) this property
17:25 DS-minetest like `local masses = {["default:dirt"] = 1, ["default:cobble"] = 2}
17:25 sprutsel_brululu that'd be great if I knew every item on the server
17:25 DS-minetest there are minetest.registered_* tables
17:26 DS-minetest !api
17:26 MinetestBot Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
17:27 sprutsel_brululu no, I meant that to know which weight I should set I should know about the block I'm setting it for and preparing a single table useful for all beforehand would require knowledge of every block from every mod which is too much for me
17:29 DS-minetest you could set a default value
17:29 sprutsel_brululu also if someone were to try to add support of my mod to their item/block/biome mod they'd have to modify not their own mod by setting property in their own blocks but ask me to add stuff to that great table of all possible blocks
17:30 DS-minetest you could make a global table with the name of your mod and put the great table into that global table
17:30 DS-minetest then other mods could access it
17:30 DS-minetest or put a function into that global table
17:31 DS-minetest (those mods would still have to (optionally) depend on your mod so that they can be sure, the table is created)
17:32 sprutsel_brululu is it better to store properties common for all items of same type as those global tables or by overriding items?
17:34 DS-minetest by overriding items I guess you mean storing the property in the definition table
17:34 DS-minetest i guess it depends
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17:35 sprutsel_brululu the property will be used rarely, not every tick
17:35 sprutsel_brululu its mainly an inventory mod
17:35 DS-minetest if that property is just some internal thing in your mod, an own table is probably better
17:36 DS-minetest if it's more like an api that other mods can use, storing it in the definition is better (if you do this, use _yourmodname as field name)
17:38 DS-minetest the access speed is the same if you have all the same keys
17:38 DS-minetest afaik
17:38 sprutsel_brululu Well its obviously an internal thing for now but I think other people could use it, sure. Having a ready access to item mass could be useful for I dunno, minecarts and trains and boats.
17:39 sprutsel_brululu A lot of things really.
17:40 DS-minetest i dont think, other mods could reliably rely on some arbitrary value of another mod
17:40 DS-minetest but mass sounds like a property that belongs into the definition
17:40 DS-minetest in this special case, you could even think of using node groups
17:42 sprutsel_brululu Why arbitrary? Mass of 1 cubic meter of water is exactly a ton. Dirt is... depends on a type of dirt really but you can still put a realistic number on it.
17:46 Krock depends on the temperature of the water
17:48 DS-minetest is salt water heavier than sweet water btw?
17:48 sprutsel_brululu Ok how about this: I make a mod which adds properties to blocks such as mass or compressed volume (meaning volume it'd take up in inventory, e.g. leaf item has 1 cubic meter volume as a node but like a fifth of that after being cut). And then inventory mod uses its properties without providing any of its own.
17:48 DS-minetest (sweet water near dessert sand)
17:48 DS-minetest you could do that
17:49 DS-minetest I did actually not expect realistic values
17:49 Krock > dessert sand
17:49 Krock > sweet water
17:49 Krock ah, that's why
17:50 sprutsel_brululu I actually tried to make realistic mod back in 0.4.something but couldnt because API had no methods for something, cant remember what now. The API was also still in the works and people told me to wait.
17:51 DS-minetest I'm still waiting for a mod that generates dessert biomes, nobody seems to want to implement it
17:51 sprutsel_brululu Well, it seems really weird to me that a person can dig 99 cubic meters of dirt weighting 150 tons with bare hands and walk with it like its nothing.
17:51 DS-minetest realisticness doesn't always result in fun
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17:53 DS-minetest hm, you could guess the weight of a node via its drawtype
17:53 sprutsel_brululu It doesn't always, but when it does its a higher state of fun. The harder the struggle the sweeter the achievement.
17:53 sprutsel_brululu Nah, then wood and rock would have same weight.
17:54 DS-minetest plantlike~> low weight, normal and paramtype1~="light"~> heavy
17:54 DS-minetest group stone weights more than group wood
17:54 DS-minetest or choppy or whatever
17:55 sprutsel_brululu There's still the issue of trunk being split into 4 wood
17:55 DS-minetest true
17:55 sprutsel_brululu Its better to set such stuff manually
17:55 DS-minetest or look through crafting recipes
17:56 DS-minetest the sum of the mass that goes in has to be equal to the sum that goes out
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17:56 sprutsel_brululu Thats not true
17:57 sprutsel_brululu Generally is but think of a pickaxe for example or any other tool
17:57 DS-minetest tools are heavy...
17:57 DS-minetest very heavy
17:58 DS-minetest you'd have to ignore repairing recipes and co. of course
17:58 sprutsel_brululu 1 blocks of rock = 2.7 tons. 3 blocks are 8 tons. 8-something ton pickaxes and axes? No thanks.
17:59 sprutsel_brululu What comes out is less than what comes in generally
17:59 DS-minetest that's mainly because the recipes are unrealistic ;)
18:01 sprutsel_brululu They are ok imho, you just chisel rock and throw out the refuse so it doesnt count. Of course they could be better but for that you'd need to know mass...
18:01 sprutsel_brululu Like in CataDDA
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18:06 sprutsel_brululu Oh, another question is hot to forbid throwing items out
18:07 Krock player inventory callbacks, or override the drop function
18:08 sprutsel_brululu What about cases like sand dropping? If you dig big sand columns some blocks overlap and one of them drops as an item
18:08 Krock that's a feature
18:09 sprutsel_brululu Is it?
18:09 Krock to prevent entities that are stacked on the same position
18:09 Krock or within solid nodes
18:10 sprutsel_brululu Its not a feature but a failsafe I'd say
18:10 sprutsel_brululu Proper behaviour would be decreasing height of a column by one without dropping any items
18:10 Krock I like to label all workarounds or bugs as features
18:11 sprutsel_brululu I knew it
18:11 sprutsel_brululu I havent played minetest for a couple of years, did the blinking-recently-placed-block feature get removed yet?
18:12 Krock how many years?
18:12 sprutsel_brululu Since 0.4.something
18:12 DS-minetest that's so inaccurate
18:12 Krock 0.4.something can be a range from 2 to 7 years (or so)
18:13 sprutsel_brululu Oh well
18:13 sprutsel_brululu Does it matter?
18:13 Krock kinda, because I'm not aware of any "blinking" as you described
18:13 Krock joined in 2013
18:13 DS-minetest if you are referring to node prediction blinking-problems, these still exist
18:14 Krock ah, those when the network packet takes too long, and the prediction is reverted. yes.
18:14 sprutsel_brululu Its when you are place blocks on the roof on your building and step on the block you just placed but it ceases to exist for a moment and you fall down to your death
18:14 DS-minetest yep, exactly that
18:14 DS-minetest there's a PR to fix this though
18:15 sprutsel_brululu Oh, thats what some of you said to me the last time I asked this
18:15 sprutsel_brululu several years ago
18:15 Krock at least on the servers I played, this is less noticeable than it was before.. maybe just a feeling
18:15 Krock block sending and the network stuff has seen quite some fixes
18:16 Krock yet, the RTT calculation is still broken
18:16 sprutsel_brululu what about lagging into walls while riding minecart or mobs? Are there any decent mobs yet?
18:16 Krock nothing helps if you play on 5s lag servers (which is far less common now)
18:17 Krock !mod mobs_redo
18:17 MinetestBot Krock: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917
18:17 sprutsel_brululu What causes the lag btw? Can't be network because it happens even on the local machine.
18:17 sprutsel_brululu Is there some IO going on? Logs or nodes written?
18:17 sprutsel_brululu Happens -> happened
18:18 Krock ABMs, mods, map saving
18:22 sprutsel_brululu I remember mobs redo, they were laggy things which travelled in straight lines before teleporting elsewhere every time client received an update and could sometimes hit me from from 20 blocks away multiple times in a single second and sometimes couldnt hit at all. I understand its not the fault of their author that prediction and entities are shit but still, those werent proper mobs as I understand them.
18:22 Krock enjoy testing it in a recent build :)
18:28 sprutsel_brululu Another question: what about climbing ladders?
18:29 sprutsel_brululu Is there a way to modify ladders behaviour based on the state of the player (can't climb with 3 tons of rock in your hand)?
18:30 DS-minetest it's like swimming or flying I think
18:35 sprutsel_brululu actually apparently I asked all the same questions about a year ago
18:35 sprutsel_brululu according to irc logs
18:35 DS-minetest just one year?
18:36 sprutsel_brululu one year. It wasnt my first time trying to make the mod though
18:36 sprutsel_brululu Also apparently eating doesn't trigger inventory callbacks?
18:36 DS-minetest you did expect that changes happened after one, in minetest?
18:36 sprutsel_brululu Is it still true?
18:36 sprutsel_brululu I forgot that I was here a year ago
18:37 DS-minetest I don't think, eating something triggers invcallbacks
18:38 sprutsel_brululu I only joined because someone mentioned minecraft elsewhere and it lead to me mentioning minetest and then I remembered that I wanted to make a mod
18:38 sprutsel_brululu that's definitely a feature
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18:46 sprutsel_brululu What my old mod had can be split into 3 parts basically - item properties, player inventory and player physics. Player physics did stuff like soft capping inventory by slowing and damaging player if he carries tons of stuff. Problem was there wasnt a way to know how much stuff player has because various actions - like eating - can affect inventory without calling callbacks.
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18:54 sprutsel_brululu Is there some mod which adds placeable node counterparts for default items lacking them? E.g. tools and flints?
18:54 sprutsel_brululu There is a fancy ingot stack mod which is nice.
18:55 DS-minetest I don't know any such mod
18:58 twoelk the placeable ingots mod maybe?
18:59 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=21491
19:03 sprutsel_brululu I said I already knew about it. But its not enough. There are still things like tools which cannot be placed.
19:13 twoelk most items cannot be place directly, that's one of the reasons for itemframes
19:13 twoelk I wonder why you can place an apple but not a bread
19:14 sfan5 legacy reasons really
19:14 DS-minetest apples need to be placeable
19:14 DS-minetest they grow on trees
19:14 sfan5 it might've been better to have a node "leaves with apple" instead of an apple taking up a single node
19:14 twoelk and some farmyard might look more convincing with shovels leaning in the corner and buckets standing around
19:15 sfan5 sprutsel_brululu: sounds like a great idea for a mod then
19:16 twoelk hmm so if all items get placeable I could plant me a bucket tree :D
19:17 sprutsel_brululu i just want realism - e.g. players having to haul tons of stone refuse out of the mine and pile it somewhere - so I thought I'd just forbid dropping blocks, only allowing to place them - but players can still craft tools and drop them.
19:18 sprutsel_brululu having placeable pickaxes is not ideal of course - players would just take tons of sticks into a mine, craft 3 rocks into a pick and place picks on the ground - but at least they'd still have a pile of refuse, even if made of pickaxes
19:19 twoelk I would bet too much realism in mining whould make most players quit mining
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19:20 sprutsel_brululu no, its just an incentive for being inventive, like power limitation is an incentive to build generators and nuclear reactors in technic
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19:22 sprutsel_brululu since moving stuff by hand is a pain you'd have to use first a wooden wheelbarrow and then you'd build rails and minecarts for hauling stone - and not just useless rollercoaster rides - and then you'd automate it, etc
19:23 Krock but fun rides are fun
19:25 twoelk which probably limit the types of players that stay for longer - which may or may not be your intend right from the start ;)
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19:25 sprutsel_brululu teleporters and megahuge golden chests are nice but they take the fun out of the game, at least technic drills and lasers come at an actual cost with having to build and maintain infrastructure, supply fuel to power etc
19:26 DS-minetest technic is easy, just craft one of those cheap water mills that give nearly unlimited power these days
19:26 twoelk I guess whe might be on similar lines here though the weighting might differ considerably
19:28 twoelk for example I tend to avoid technic if possible but like it when choices have indeed consequences though I generally dislike getting trapped in dead ends with absolutely no way out
19:29 sprutsel_brululu I would like it if the game encouraged me to build creatively, resource constraints, etc. With teleporters you can build random rooms not even connected to each other and just teleport in between.
19:30 twoelk some skyblock games for example could get better if you could use detours to still get nessesary achievements done
19:30 sprutsel_brululu Teleports should at least have a cost in coal or something
19:31 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: GUIFormSpecMenu: Remove field_close_on_enter warning (#9501) 7da4f9e https://git.io/JvKz6 (2020-03-10T19:30:55Z)
19:31 MinetestBot [git] developedby -> minetest/minetest: Remove unnecessary checks before delete (#9500) 30d795b https://git.io/JvKzi (2020-03-10T19:30:42Z)
19:31 twoelk yep once your technic quarry is set up you could use a coal sink
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19:33 MinetestBot [git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Fix memory leak in GUIHyperText (#9489) b42493f https://git.io/JvKzM (2020-03-10T19:32:38Z)
19:33 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: minetest,get_connected_players: Return empty table at load time (#9493) 7a7bfdc https://git.io/JvKzD (2020-03-10T19:32:04Z)
19:34 twoelk I wonder if teleporters could be easily set up to consume different amounts of resources according to distance and type of teleportation
19:35 twoelk maybe teleporting with filled pockets could cost more or certain types of things you take allong
19:40 sprutsel_brululu is there something like a list of all items registered by "official" mods (default, bucket, stairs, etc)?
19:41 sfan5 don't think so
19:41 twoelk for example taking some stacks of stones or dirt with you might just be expensive on the regular power source you need to feed the device but transporting some highend technical device might need some other rarer fuel while transporting into the sky might need yet a more refined sorce of energy
19:41 sfan5 but I can easily make you one
19:43 sprutsel_brululu please do, I think I've seen some mod which extracts lists of all items from servers (not sure if it can save the list though) or I could spend an hour writing python script to get it from init.luas but you probably have a better way
19:44 *ย twoelk wanders off to create an oval sun to study optical effects in the sky again
19:45 sprutsel_brululu or I could spend a few minutes grepping ...
19:45 sprutsel_brululu hmmm
19:45 sfan5 grep won't find you every item since many are registered programtically
19:45 sprutsel_brululu dang
19:46 sprutsel_brululu like stairs you mean?
19:46 Krock write a mod that prints out all
19:46 sprutsel_brululu there is a mod but it prints out all in ui, not sure about files
19:46 sprutsel_brululu and it hasnt been updated since 2017
19:47 sprutsel_brululu i think
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19:52 sfan5 just items and tools or also placable nodes?
19:52 sprutsel_brululu Hm
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19:52 sprutsel_brululu Are there any nodes without item equivalent?
19:52 sprutsel_brululu I think even air has an item for it
19:53 sfan5 nodes are automatically items, so no
19:53 sprutsel_brululu Were you talking about strictly non-node items before?
19:54 sprutsel_brululu Because I do need every kind of item, including node ones.
19:54 sprutsel_brululu entity-items are an abomination against nature by the way, I curse minecraft for inventing them
19:55 sprutsel_brululu that sounded wrong
19:55 sprutsel_brululu they are an abomination and a crime against nature
19:56 DusXMT Well, it can't be that hard to make a placable version
19:57 DusXMT If you want, you could work on an API to allow ingots to be placed and stacked on top of each other
19:57 DusXMT (like it's done in Terrafirmacraft)
19:58 sfan5 sprutsel_brululu: here's your list https://a.uguu.se/p3NVbceGio23_list.csv
19:59 sfan5 that first item without a name is the hand, though I'm 100% sure it does not appear in the creative inventory
20:02 *ย DusXMT should probably read more than just a few lines when opening a channel, was amused at the emotional reaction to non-placable items being present
20:02 sprutsel_brululu Nice, thanks
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20:03 sprutsel_brululu I wasnt reacting to non-placeable items but to ability to dig 3 tons of rock and drop it on the ground as a tiny immaterial cube which will disappear
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20:03 sprutsel_brululu 3 tons of rock if it was a single node, 300 tons if its a stack of 99
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20:29 sprutsel_brululu what's the criteria by which some items are in the creative inventory and some arent?
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20:31 sprutsel_brululu does not being in a creative inventory guarantee that I wont ever find this item in the wild by digging/crafting?
20:31 rubenwardy the mod decides, and no
20:32 sfan5 generally, things that are intended to be placed by the user are in the creative inventory
20:35 sprutsel_brululu farming:hoe_bronze,"Bronze Hoe",tool,no
20:35 sprutsel_brululu - but farming:hoe_steel,"Steel Hoe",tool,yes
20:35 sprutsel_brululu hmm
20:35 sprutsel_brululu seems like creative inventory flag can be ignored since no useful information can be derived
20:35 sprutsel_brululu I hoped I could just ignore all items with creative inventory "no" since I wont ever meet them
20:36 sfan5 something not being in the creative inventory is a good indicator but not a guarantee
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20:37 rubenwardy I've been meaning to expand by recipe checker to check whether recipes are possible
20:40 rubenwardy difficult though and probably not the worth the effort
20:46 sprutsel_brululu is it possible to demand conditions for crafting? E.g. crafting table level 3 + steel hammer to craft armor, or something like that?
20:46 sprutsel_brululu Not just in crafting ui greying out the "Craft" button or whatever, but on the server, so that nothing can be done even if the client calls crafting bypassing GUI
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20:47 sfan5 sure, the implementation of the crafting table would need to enforce that
20:48 sprutsel_brululu i checked register craft item and there's nothing in properties there that allows redifining crafting
20:48 sprutsel_brululu and craft_item too, you can defined ingredients but not the tools and conditions
20:49 sprutsel_brululu ehhh I meant register craft
20:49 sprutsel_brululu define* ingredients
20:50 sfan5 it's not built-in of course
20:51 sprutsel_brululu mmmm
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20:52 sfan5 I don't remember if register_craft allows custom properties but you could store them out-of-band either way
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21:04 literalnobody americans measure some densities in pounds per acre-foot, what the heck is even that, why would you ever invent something so inane
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21:28 sprutsel_brululu what a conundrum: ingots have very vague size
21:29 sprutsel_brululu on one hand two ingots are enough for a sword so I'd say one ingot is ~10kg, but on the other hand 9 ingots are a cubic meter of metal which means one ingot is ~1000kg. Are ingots closer to 10 or to 1000kg?
21:31 sprutsel_brululu the ingot placement mod allows placing 64 ingots per node which results in ~100kg ingots, assuming each stack weights about 2/3 of cubic meter of solid metal.
21:32 calcul0n not sure looking for realism in this game can lead anywhere :)
21:32 sprutsel_brululu just gotta make everything realistic enough simultaneously.
21:32 sprutsel_brululu the problem here is that while ingots will be realistic crafting will not
21:33 sprutsel_brululu so gotta remake crafting as well, dang
21:33 sprutsel_brululu but I already wanted to anyway
21:34 sprutsel_brululu the only problem is that other people won't be able to use mass of an ingot usefully since its usefullnes will only shine in conjunction with overloaded crafting
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21:39 sprutsel_brululu people must learn how enourmous cubic meters are
21:39 sprutsel_brululu hope they will see the light once they have to spend a whole stack of ingots to craft a single cube
21:54 Lone_Wolf Have you tried Nodecore yet sprutsel?
21:54 Lone_Wolf You might find it a lot easier to convert into a realistic game, if it doesn't already meet your wants
22:00 sprutsel_brululu yes, i remember it
22:01 sprutsel_brululu no, its not really realistic, it just uses a different metaphor so to speak, but no less disjointed from reality
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22:07 Lone_Wolf More realistic that MTG by quite a bit IMO
22:07 Lone_Wolf Hence: You might find it a lot easier to convert into a realistic game
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