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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-11-24

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02:21 jordan4ibanez What skins mods plug into unified inventory?
02:37 jordan4ibanez Oh U_Skins by krock, that's really strange how it has a py file to download offline haha
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03:49 whitephoenix_ outside of rubenwardy's are there any good guides/tutorials for modding topics?
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05:15 dude how does one upgrade from 0.4.19 to the latest on ubuntu?
05:20 kaeza sudo apt-get future ?
05:23 kaeza dude, if you want latest stable, see https://launchpad.net/~minete​stdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
05:24 kaeza for daily builds, see: https://launchpad.net/~minetestd​evs/+archive/ubuntu/daily-builds
05:25 kaeza daily builds may or may not be unstable, depending on how stable you consider the stable releases :)
05:26 dude thanks
05:27 kaeza bye I guess
06:02 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: Use travis' container-based infrastructure (#1314) b0ae488 https://git.io/v1fq7 (2016-11-23T22:00:35-08:00)
06:38 jordan4ibanez Have a good thanksgiving!
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09:46 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Evolution Day! 😃 🙈 🙉 🙊
09:49 Chinchou JamesTait, my art seems to be DEvolving.  Will today fix that?
09:50 JamesTait Chinchou, I have every hope for you, but I can't make any promises. 😉
09:50 Chinchou D:
09:51 Chinchou I'm barely keeping up...  Getting ideas for non-story comics is hard sometimes.
09:52 Chinchou Fun, though.
09:57 JamesTait Chinchou, your art cannot posibly be any worse than mine, so don't worry.
09:58 JamesTait I have an idea for a cartoon strip based on my real life, but I need to find quiet time to sit down and try to draw it - which, funnily enough, is partly what the strip is about!
09:58 Chinchou You have not seen #4:  What is a Human?
09:59 JamesTait It's not ringing any bells, so possibly not.
10:00 Chinchou Mine's a collection of one-offs in 4-panel format, almost always jokes.
10:01 Chinchou Unfortunately, hosting is... a pain in the arse, so I'm stuck using an onion for the foreseeable future.
10:02 Chinchou On the bright side, I got to learn XHTML and CSS.
10:02 JamesTait Silver linings and all that. 😉
10:04 Chinchou ... Of course, that still leaves it with very little exposure, because visitors can only get to it through Tor.
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10:21 danielwbn hey ppl, is there an alternative file server fot the unofficial mintest tutorial 1.8.2? The link from the forum doesn't work again and I can't register atm to ask someone there
10:22 Chinchou Hrm...  No clue, but I'd think that Wuzzy would be the one to ask.  (If I'm remembering the creator correctly)
10:23 Chinchou ...Hopefully someone else can be of more help.
10:26 danielwbn ok, thanks anyway!
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12:11 Calinou Chinchou: GitHub pages?
12:11 Calinou or GitLab pages
12:11 Calinou (fun fact: GitLab has no anti-NSFW policy)
12:11 Calinou (technically they do, but they don't enforce it)
12:12 Calinou also, in 2016, you don't learn XHTML, you learn HTML5 directly ;)
12:12 Chinchou Bah, screw HTML5.
12:12 Chinchou Anyway, I'll go poke around at gitlab.
12:13 Chinchou I recall being put off by github's policies.
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13:44 Merak I made a correction and changes to the Orienteering module, but I'm not going to use it myself because the 'yaw' does not match what is shown in debug.
13:44 Merak https://gitgud.io/Kiri/MineTestOrienteering
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14:59 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Fix secure io.open without mode 9e10f9f https://git.io/v1JUJ (2016-11-24T09:58:21-05:00)
15:09 fireglow where is the maximum stacksize of 99 defined? I'd like to bump it.
15:12 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Fix secure io.lines 3af5eef https://git.io/v1JTS (2016-11-24T10:10:20-05:00)
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15:39 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Fix fs::RemoveRelativePathComponents for paths with a leading dot com… e4ee654 https://git.io/v1JqO (2016-11-24T10:38:23-05:00)
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16:03 Passant hi folks, i wonder if it is possible to let register_decoration place a schematic with a negative Y. because i would like to give roots to specific trees. i noticed that default trees have something rootlike but i was somewhat unable to reproduce this with my schematic files... maybe because they're way bigger :S
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16:15 agaran Passant: any code example? I'd like to learn how to use schematics..
16:18 Passant well, i am unsure if a code example helps since i am still learning too. i use minetest_game/mods/default/mapgen.lua / the mapgen.lua from ethereal for orientation
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17:10 Merak It appears that you can have a modpack in a modpack though the subsubmodules are not individually visible in the configuration view then.
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18:13 Merak Wuzzy: Is there a publicly readable source code repository for your documentation pack?  If not, would it be good to have one?
18:13 Wuzzy Yes.
18:13 Wuzzy Actually, there are 4 repos.
18:13 Wuzzy why, do you want to write a mod which uses the documentation system?
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18:14 Wuzzy The links are in one of the spoilers in this thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi​c.php?f=9&t=15912&p=240152
18:14 Merak Wuzzy: I am making a modpack. I am interested in including your doc packs. I've not tried them yet, but they look good.
18:15 Wuzzy well, it is still WIP, so i dont promise to not break the API in the future
18:15 Merak That is what I was reading. I find no repository there.
18:15 Wuzzy Open developer information
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18:16 dude Hi, all
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18:16 Wuzzy My documentation system will be used best if support from other mods is provided
18:17 dude Does anyone know how to fly a ufo?
18:17 Wuzzy for instance, the doc_items mod offers many help texts for items
18:17 Wuzzy dude: Yes.
18:17 dude what are the commands?
18:17 Wuzzy you need to build a fuel station first and fuel it with obsidian sharts
18:17 Wuzzy and flying is just left/right/up/down/jump/sneak
18:17 dude how many do you need?
18:17 Merak I see. I think I want these.  http://repo.or.cz/minetest_doc_modpack.git http://repo.or.cz/minetest_doc_minetest_game.git
18:18 Wuzzy Merak: What will your modpack be about?
18:18 Wuzzy dude: idk, just try out
18:18 Wuzzy try it with 99 for a start :)
18:18 dude Wuzzy, Will do! Thanks.
18:19 Wuzzy dude: Here is the forum page for ufos: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4086
18:19 Merak Wuzzy: Mostly HDX supported modules which do not create noticeable slowdown for playing or mapgen.
18:19 Wuzzy and why do you need doc for that? o_O
18:19 Merak I have tested most of the modules which have blocks in HDX.
18:20 Merak I don't. It just appears helpful.
18:20 Wuzzy i think your modpack will suffer from feature creep then
18:20 Wuzzy i mean, a modpack containing another modpack? :D
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18:21 Merak It would be especially helpful when playing fullscreen, since the browser can not be opened to view minetest wiki
18:21 Wuzzy Welcome in my world!
18:21 Merak I already include the HomeDecor modpack
18:21 dude Thanks wuzzy!
18:22 Wuzzy this is one of the reasons why i made these mods. i hate documentation rotting around in wikis
18:22 Wuzzy and i know the wiki are doomed to be outdated
18:22 Wuzzy and I myself have put countless hours on the wiki. yet it still has many mistakes or inaccuracies
18:23 Wuzzy and the circus restarts with the next MT release :D
18:23 Wuzzy i have basically given up writing for minetest game stuff in the wiki
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18:23 Wuzzy instead I think my time is more valueable with the doc mods
18:24 Wuzzy Merak: So.. your modpack will contain homedecor, and the doc* mods? lol
18:24 Merak I will post a list.
18:24 Merak link to a lint
18:24 Merak list
18:24 Merak and the modpack
18:25 Wuzzy Merak: note that for my documentation mods to become great, there also needs to be support from the mods. especially for adding their item infos. like, doc_minetest_game contains an explanation how to use the furnace and many other blocks
18:25 Wuzzy while doc_items only contains automatically extracted information, like digging times, group memberships, burning time and whatnot
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18:27 Wuzzy Also, I think this mod will be very very useful for highly complex mods or subgames, such as Technic... as long those mods provide their extended explanations
18:27 Wuzzy currently, getting started with Technic is kinda hard. even the wiki is not helping :(
18:28 Wuzzy and I can recall that I was completely clueless with RealTest. I barely even managed to start a fire. lol
18:28 Chinchou Wuzzy, Technic's documentation plus an in-game crafting guide helps a lot.
18:28 Wuzzy yeah, crafting guides are very important. without them you are doomed. :D
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18:29 Wuzzy i think all subgames should have one. I am looking at you, Minetest Game! :D
18:29 Wuzzy Chinchou: Oh, you mean the wiki does not suck anymore? i need to check
18:30 Chinchou The wiki?
18:30 Chinchou No, I said *Technic*'s documentation.
18:30 Chinchou You know, the file called "manual".
18:30 Wuzzy wasn't it on a wiki?
18:30 Wuzzy wait, technic has a MANUAL????
18:31 Chinchou Yes.  It has had that for at least a year, probably longer.
18:31 Wuzzy I can recall that technic once had a wiki. maybe it is deleted now.
18:31 agaran Wuzzy: tell what problems you have with technic, maybe I can help
18:31 Chinchou It is right where one would expect it to be - inside Technic's directory
18:32 Wuzzy ah! found it!!
18:32 Chinchou There are still sections missing, such as the hand-held tools.  It also makes no mention of the vacuum cleaner, and has outdated information regarding TNT...
18:32 Merak Wuzzy  doc_items is always empty, even if i do in your modpack  git submodule update --recursive
18:33 Wuzzy well I actually think i have understood the basics of technic, i just was not interested in trying to build more complex stuff. i never did something in survival
18:33 Wuzzy Merak: is this true for other dirs as well?
18:34 Wuzzy Merak: the modpack repository is not really important, it just contains boring metadata and a very short readme
18:34 Wuzzy but i check anyway
18:35 Wuzzy I think Technic has many "gotchas"
18:35 Wuzzy like it is very odd how you place that substation thing
18:35 Merak Wuzzy: other dirs are also empty
18:35 Wuzzy not obvious at all
18:35 Chinchou Wuzzy, the manual actually details how to place things like the supply converter and the substation.
18:36 Wuzzy Chinchou: Yes, I know it is written in the manual. I just think the placement rule is so odd. That's all. :D
18:36 Chinchou Ah.  Well, it is a bit odd.
18:36 Wuzzy Well yeah, you can get used to. Correct
18:37 Wuzzy but you certainly cannot guess it
18:37 Chinchou I wonder if that can be changed with the screwdriver... I never tried.
18:37 Wuzzy i doubt it. that would be too overcomplex
18:37 Wuzzy it might have helped if the bottom side of the substation thingy looks different. so it is obvious that something must be plugged into it. :-)
18:37 Chinchou Well, other face-dependent things change, such as inputs and outputs from furnaces.
18:38 Chinchou Ach, true, true.
18:38 Wuzzy Well, its all those tiny gotchas. They pile up, you know. ;-)
18:38 Wuzzy and it is mods like technic which also lead to the creation of documentation system
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18:38 Wuzzy in the hope to make the infos more accessible
18:39 Wuzzy and i hate switching from game to brower/whatever application
18:39 agaran Wuzzy, after some time of using technic you will remember most..
18:42 Wuzzy i think the doc system will be very very important for servers with 1000s of mods. Even if all those mods have their manual on their repo/forum page/whatever, it will be very frustrating to hunt them all down one-by-one.
18:42 Wuzzy so having all the relevant info in one place, in the game itself, will solve all this
18:43 Wuzzy and I also see many mods abusing the item description for adding more help, making the tooltip exceptionally long
18:43 Wuzzy example: screwdriver in minetest game
18:44 Wuzzy IMO it is bad design to put both an item *name* and an item *explanation* into the same data field. the data is not atomic then
18:45 Wuzzy I suppose it will also help a lot if minetest adds better tooltips in future releases
18:45 Wuzzy cuz they need serious improvements
18:45 Wuzzy like, for crying out loud, tell me how much damage the sword does! xD
18:48 Wuzzy Merak: I think you did not clone the submodules correctly
18:48 Wuzzy Because I was able to just clone my repo + submodules completely
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18:55 Merak I don't understand why it would not work.  I add them directly as submodules now, and it does.
18:57 Wuzzy lol
18:57 Wuzzy well, then you're set up? cool
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18:58 Merak yes.
18:58 Wuzzy Merak: whenever u want to contribute stuff to one of my mods, just poke me in #minetest
18:58 Merak sure.
18:59 Wuzzy you could either fork my repo and put ur stuff there, or send in patches
18:59 Wuzzy but before u do bigger changes, better ask me first to avoid possible problems
19:00 Wuzzy anyway, have fun with my doc mods :D
19:00 Wuzzy and I am really eager to know whether these mods will be a success in the future
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19:01 Merak Would this be the best cart module?  https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=11&t=10172
19:01 AcidNinjaFWHR yes it is Merak
19:03 Krock o/  popularity increses
19:03 Wuzzy Merak: boost_cart was merged into Minetest Game. But ... poorly. :(
19:03 Krock Wuzzy, you can still use boost_cart parallel to MTG, with the newest commit
19:03 Wuzzy yay pointless redundancy
19:03 Wuzzy how about fixing the broken Minetest Game cart instead? :-)
19:03 Krock because start/stoprails are pointless
19:04 Krock if it's broken in MTG, it's in my mod too, recursive ;)
19:05 Wuzzy the bug is that the cart in Minetest Game drives VERY jittery
19:05 Wuzzy but your mod is completely fluid for some reason
19:05 AcidNinjaFWHR which is not the case with boost_cart.
19:05 Wuzzy i have no idea what abuses the devs did to boost_cart. :D
19:07 Merak Then i will include boost_cart for now.  I will make an adjustment though that the power rails use 1 mese fragment instead of 2.  2 seems too expensive to me.
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19:16 Merak Or I increase the boost and keep the recipe the same.
19:18 Merak How fast a max speed can it handle (if the limit is changed) ?
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19:21 Fixer Wuzzy: jitter in singleplayer?
19:21 Wuzzy yes
19:21 agaran Fixer, if you use stargate mod and try to dig it.. you get ABM warning at 2.5s ;)
19:21 Fixer Wuzzy: it is jitter free for me 99% of time
19:21 agaran (problem with cracky modifier applied to texture on .obj)
19:22 Fixer and if it jitters, it is not critical
19:22 Fixer at least to me
19:22 Fixer will see how it works in multiplayer
19:23 agaran placing, using, stargate works fine.. just.. digging is tricky at best
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19:27 Merak I like compassgps -- that you can choose a location and have the compass point at it.  Teleporting is too cheap with it though. (gratis)
19:28 Merak stargate or another mod would be better in that way, but function of location pointing would be lost.
19:29 Merak actually, i think i don't want teleport at all.
19:29 Merak Carts, cushion, rope box.
19:30 Merak carts at 20-50m/s
19:31 Fixer Wuzzy: boost cart is smooth in singleplayer too?
19:31 Merak at 25m/s traveling 1000m requires 40s.
19:31 Fixer Wuzzy: on the same track?
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19:32 Wuzzy iirc yes
19:33 Fixer Wuzzy: maybe there was some background activity?
19:33 Wuzzy well, I guess I should just complain to Minetest Game devs... lol
19:34 Fixer Wuzzy: maybe create an issue, if it is really reporoducable
19:35 Fixer i have no problems with new carts in singleplayer, it can slightly jitter once there and there rarely
19:35 Fixer same for boost one
19:35 Fixer if you are concerned, create an issue
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19:44 Krock Maybe I'll find some time over the weekend to bring the MTG version along, Wuzzy
19:44 Wuzzy Thank you :)
19:44 Krock say thanks when it's done :P
19:45 Chinchou Merak, there's the travelnet mod.  The elevators are somewhat cheap to make, but the teleport stations are not.
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19:50 Merak Chinchou: elevators are broken. The stations work.
19:50 red-001 ?
19:50 Merak elevators have problems with placement of the player  -- 1 node off vertically
19:51 red-001 huh thats werid
19:51 Krock Wuzzy, I've found a part of the problem. It checks for a node each entity step, which slows down the whole mod a lot
19:51 Chinchou Strange.
19:51 red-001 elevators are just locked down teleporters
19:51 Chinchou ^
19:52 Krock that eliminates the most of the optimized speed
19:52 red-001 you can connect teleporters to elevators
19:52 Merak I didn't try placing teleporters vertically, so they could have the same problem as far as i know.
19:52 * red-001 wonders if thats a bug or a feature
19:54 Merak carts in minetest_game also have reduced max speed set.  carts.speed_max = 7
20:05 Fixer right
20:06 Fixer you can increase it
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20:13 paramat Passant you can sink schematics into the ground
20:14 paramat use the 'place centre y' flag
20:14 paramat the schematic will then be sunk halfway into the ground, which is probably more than you want but it's the only way
20:15 paramat so the lower part of your schematic will be partly empty
20:15 paramat depending on how long your roots are
20:16 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4051
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20:19 paramat you'll need to add empty layers to the base of your schematic until root top is at schematic midpoint
20:22 Merak git log for minetest_game shows no lua code change for carts -- only 'travis build'
20:29 Hijiri I don't think one get_node per step would be that expensive
20:29 Hijiri API calls are expensive, but not so much that one per frame will kill you
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21:27 Passant thanks paramat <3 a "real" feature for that would be just awesome but for now i will just update the schematics :)
21:28 paramat :)
21:35 paramat ~tell Jordach why are the limbs and body of the player model stretched to 12.5 pixels? see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/1392#issuecomment-262831291 onwards
21:35 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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22:44 fireglow where is the maximum stacksize of 99 defined? I'd like to bump it a bit, to 999 ;)
22:44 Fixer no idea
22:44 Fixer somewhere in minetest_game?
22:45 red-001 node def?
22:45 est31 http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_b​ook/lua_api.html#item-definition-registe​r_node-register_craftitem-register_tool
22:45 est31 nodedef yes
22:45 est31 stack_max
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22:46 fireglow ooh, per item? Alright
22:46 fireglow thanks guys :) always very helpful, I like that
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23:21 kaeza fireglow, you can also do something like `minetest.itemdef_default.stack_max = 999`
23:21 kaeza note that this does not cover items that explicitly set `stack_max` themselves
23:21 kaeza also, `minetest.nodedef_default.stack_max = 999`
23:22 fireglow oh right!
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23:22 fireglow that's great
23:22 kaeza ...and, `minetest.craftitemdef_default.stack_max = 999`
23:23 red-001 would that have to run before any item definitions are registered?
23:23 kaeza red-001, can be run at any point in init phase
23:23 kaeza it works due to sort-of-inheritance
23:24 kaeza or maybe not, didn't bother to test myself :)
23:25 fireglow I'll test it soon, atm I'm busy hamming blackfriday sales :>
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