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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-09-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:46 kruug So, there is `minetest.get_pointed_thing_position`.  How would one trigger that if you wanted it to get that "thing" on pointed change?
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02:12 Hijiri kruug: what do you mean by thing
02:12 Hijiri a pointed_thing ?
02:12 Hijiri there is no way to be notified when what the player is pointing at changes
02:12 Hijiri unless you manually check every step (and even then it might miss things between steps)
02:13 Hijiri get_pointed_thing_position takes a pointed_thing as input and gives the position
02:13 Hijiri it doesn't tell you what a player is pointing at
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05:33 Megaf so, today I woke 5:21 AM, it's 06:33
05:33 Megaf No special reason, I just woke up
05:34 Megaf so, good morning!
05:37 Chinchou My condolences.
05:38 Chinchou Being 05:32, I'll need to sleep soon...
05:42 Megaf I'm just enjoying some coffee right now, after eating two toasts with butter :) Bread that I baked myself
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05:53 Megaf Good Morning CWz namach duckbrain_
05:54 CWz Mornings
05:54 Megaf well, good evening to you duckbrain_
05:54 duckbrain_ Good evening.
05:54 Megaf CWz: in what country are you at?
05:55 Megaf duckbrain_: 06:54 here, quite a difference from your timezone :)
05:55 duckbrain_ Yes. I won't be on for very long. I need to get some sleep.
05:58 duckbrain_ Well, have a great day. I'm off.
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05:59 namach Morning Megaf :)
05:59 namach do we know each other?
06:00 Megaf namach: not really :) We are just two Minetest guys
06:01 namach cool :) i thought my mind was playing tricks on me :)
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06:28 IhrFussel I'm logging the chat messages of my players in a file...is there a way to delay the inserting into the file in case of server lags? Cause right now when the server hangs it will buffer all messages and insert them at once a few secs later
06:31 IhrFussel And I have an external bot running that listens to that log file and executes commands it finds per line...problem is when the server lags it puts multiple messages in log and inotifywait+tail -n 1 (which the bot uses) executes only the last line
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06:46 Megaf IhrFussel: prevent the server from hanging :)
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06:48 IhrFussel Megaf, I'm already trying to reduce lags by deleting "bugged" mapblocks with lots of meta even though they are only air or default nodes, but it takes so long to go through all those mapblocks and note their position
06:48 Megaf IhrFussel: do the lag happen at fixed intervals?
06:49 Megaf server will often "hang" when saving the map to disk, reducing the save to disk interval might significantly reduce these hangs
06:49 IhrFussel Nope, completely random...the more players the more lags happen but it only started in July
06:49 Megaf server_map_save_interval = 3 on my server
06:50 Megaf also try full_block_send_enable_min_time_from_building = 60 and dedicated_server_step = 0.2
06:51 IhrFussel I'm already to the point where it must be the DB...and compressing/uncompressing blocks with tons of meta can hang the server someone told me, so I imagine it happens cause several players reach blocks with that much meta and everything hangs
06:51 Hijiri maybe the solution is to handle writes of multiple lines?
06:52 Megaf IhrFussel: I don't think so. My server is 4 years old and had been very active in the past. We don't have such issues, not that I'm aware of at least
06:52 IhrFussel Megaf, does your server have homedecor, itemframes, shop nodes and pedestals?
06:52 Chinchou IhrFussel, my first thought would be to look at ways to make the bot handle multiple lines.
06:53 Megaf well, we have homedecor and maybe itemframes, we have currency and some kind of shop yes, and pedestals? Is that from homedecor?
06:53 Megaf Hijiri: Chinchou: Making the bot handle multiple lines is not a fix to the issue, it's a workaround
06:54 Hijiri a fix to what issue, that minetest doesn't guarantee writing one line at a time?
06:54 Hijiri why is minetest even the place to do that?
06:54 Megaf the issue is something that makes the server hang
06:54 IhrFussel Hijiri and Chinchou, thanks for your input I'll see how to realize that
06:54 Hijiri oh, I forgot the context
06:54 Hijiri they're both issues though
06:55 Hijiri IhrFussel's bot should handle multiple lines anyway since servers can still have lag spikes for whatever reason
06:55 Megaf I agree with that
06:56 IhrFussel Megaf, I imagine your server has more performance...I can only tell there are LOTS of cities on my server..big cities with lots of houses, lots of other buildings and thus lots of furniture/shops/itemframes etc
06:57 Megaf IhrFussel: my server is pretty slow, it's a single core and usually it's running with 512MB of RAM or less
06:57 Megaf IhrFussel: but we do clean abandoned houses and villages yes
06:57 IhrFussel It mainly hangs after a player teleports to one big city...30-60 secs later the server hangs for a moment
06:57 Megaf and run worldedit to clean objects and replace objects
06:58 Megaf IhrFussel: that sounds like disk performance issues
06:58 Megaf IhrFussel: reduce max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client
06:58 Megaf to something like 4
06:58 Megaf max_block_send_distance = to something around 4 or 5
06:59 IhrFussel 4? I thought 40 wasn't much
06:59 Hijiri a block is 16x16x16
06:59 Hijiri so 40 would be sending nodes in a 40 * 16 radius
06:59 Megaf it will only saturate players with slow network and use all your bandwidth
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06:59 Hijiri 640?
07:00 Hijiri if it's really at 40 that is probably the cause of your lag though
07:00 Megaf also, set both active block range related lines to 1
07:00 IhrFussel No I mean total sends is 40, per client it's 2
07:00 Hijiri oh, I thought you meant max_block_send_distance
07:00 Megaf IhrFussel: read again, carefully, what I wrote
07:01 Megaf Hijiri: you got what I wrote right
07:01 IhrFussel max send distance is 2, active block range is 1, server step is 0.6
07:01 Hijiri well, I read it right, but I meant that I thought Ihr was on the same page
07:01 IhrFussel Still lags
07:02 IhrFussel Can it really be a disk issue? The v server has SSD
07:03 Megaf sometimes I think about publishing my server's configuration so other people can optimize their server, but man, it took me a lot of reading and testing to get to this sweet spot.
07:03 Megaf IhrFussel: is it a VPS?
07:04 IhrFussel In Germany we say V Server...a root server you share with other users
07:04 Megaf IhrFussel: anyway, you can use iotop to read the IO, and top to see if you have a high IO Wait on the CPUs when the server is hanging
07:05 IhrFussel I already watched iotop weeks ago...it goes max 2MB/sec ... shouldn't be a problem
07:06 Hijiri this v server? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer
07:06 Megaf they are much cheaper then Linode https://www.netcup.eu/vserver/vps.php
07:06 Megaf Hijiri: https://www.netcup.eu/vserver/
07:07 Megaf there you have root server
07:07 IhrFussel Mine is at Strato one sec
07:08 IhrFussel https://www.strato.de/linux-vserver/ level 1
07:09 IhrFussel Oh they renamed it to v20
07:09 Hijiri does a vCore have a guaranteed amount of performance?
07:10 IhrFussel No, but the lags are definitely caused by the minetest process since only the Server thread goes up to 50% when a lag happens
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07:12 Megaf IhrFussel: what db backend are you using? LevelDB or SQLite?
07:12 IhrFussel SQlite
07:17 IhrFussel Hijiri, what's the best way to parse multiple lines with the bot? Send each processed line to a file and compare every new line to the lines in that file?
07:18 Hijiri there must be some bash-fu you can put between inotify and your bot that will split the line into separate things
07:18 Hijiri I don't know a lot of bash though
07:18 Hijiri It just seems like something that should be possible
07:18 Megaf [08:06:46] <Hijiri> this v server? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer
07:19 Megaf it seems like they are using VServer yes
07:19 Megaf because of this https://www.netcup.eu/vserver/v​ergleich-linux-vserver-kvm.php
07:19 IhrFussel Megaf, yeah on the Strato page at the bottom it mentions "VPS" but the common way to call them here is V Server
07:20 Megaf IhrFussel: how large is you map.sqlite by the way? Just for curiosity
07:20 Hijiri VPS is different from VServer, from what I'm reading
07:21 Hijiri VServer virtualizes some parts of the system with jails or something, while VPS virtualizes everything
07:21 Megaf Hijiri: if it uses, Virtuozzo, OpenVZ, KVM, Xen, VirtualBox, VMWare, Hyper-V or anything that is not real hardware, it's a VPS ;)
07:21 Megaf then we have different types of VPSes
07:22 IhrFussel Yeah disk space and RAM are guaranteed
07:22 IhrFussel Only CPU is virtualized AFAIK
07:22 Hijiri ok
07:22 Hijiri I guess my view of VPS was too narrow
07:22 MinetestBot [git] raymoo -> minetest/minetest: Fix missing parameters in some mentions of entity callbacks (#4509) 321f50f https://git.io/viEuF (2016-09-12T03:21:23-04:00)
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07:23 Megaf oh, there's LXC too, that's the default one now a days, built in the Linux kernel
07:24 IhrFussel Megaf, Strato uses Virtuozzo
07:24 Megaf virtuozzo is very generic, since it supports either full virtualization and os level virtualization
07:28 IhrFussel Megaf, but how does it work to "dedicate" 2 vcores to someone? Cause someone told me user users on the machine could still access MY cores
07:28 IhrFussel other users*
07:29 Megaf well, it depends on how the company configured that
07:29 Megaf for example, on a quad core CPU, if you run 4 VPS you can give each 100% of each CPU
07:29 Megaf then nobody will get the CPU power from anybody
07:30 Megaf but if we give 100% for two cores to each VPS, then if two VPSes use 100% of the resources, the load will be shared, yes
07:31 Megaf I have a VPS thing myself, it's a one core host and I'm running 8 VPSes there. each can access 100% of this core
07:31 Megaf if two VPSes want to access 100%, the other will not have the 100% for themselves
07:31 Megaf but in my case, I can assign different "weights" for each VPS, priorities
07:32 IhrFussel Megaf, hm /proc/cpuinfo tells me 10 cores
07:33 Megaf they sold you two, so I suppose you can use 100% of two cores
07:33 Megaf so maybe theres 5 VPSes hosted in this server
07:33 IhrFussel Megaf, so others shouldn't be able to access my cores?
07:34 IhrFussel I guess I could only find out with a call but who knows if they will tell the truth..they could also lie
07:35 Megaf IhrFussel: I'm sure your German is better than mine https://www.strato.de/linux-vserver/
07:35 Megaf click on the CPU information thing
07:36 MinetestBot [git] raymoo -> minetest/minetest: fix missing parameters in some mentions of entity callbacks af4b63f https://git.io/viEzh (2016-09-12T03:35:28-04:00)
07:36 Calinou IhrFussel: if you want a high-performance game server -> dedicated
07:36 Calinou that's the only way
07:36 Calinou the ideal would be a home server, since you can have a CPU with actually good single-core performance
07:36 Calinou unlike most server CPUs which are old and lowly clocked
07:36 Hijiri then bandwidth becomes the limit for most people
07:37 Calinou Hijiri: not if you have fiber or cable :)
07:37 Calinou game servers usually don't need tons of bandwidth anyway
07:37 Calinou 10 Mb/s upload should be plenty for a large Minetest server
07:37 Hijiri in the US at least asymmetrical plans are common for cable
07:38 Hijiri fiber not, but I would guess most people don't have access to fiber
07:38 Hijiri unless you get a commercial plan cable
07:38 Calinou I don't have fiber here anyway
07:38 IhrFussel Megaf, it says "The amount of Vcores is the amount of threads of the physical server you can use"
07:38 Hijiri I would use my home server over a VPS anyway, since expensive mods will probably be more expensive on CPU than on bandwidth
07:39 Hijiri unless it's a writable books mod that allows players to enter arbitrary amounts of text
07:39 Hijiri then you can put such a book in a chest and lag people out who are near it
07:39 Megaf IhrFussel: sounds like you have two cores just for yourself
07:40 Calinou sadly, some people like always using 100% of their vCores
07:40 Calinou which will eventually get their processes shut down, but it can take time for admins to notice
07:43 Hijiri I wonder if anyone offers the service of writing formspec code
07:43 Hijiri it's usually the part that makes me not want to write a mod
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07:57 Megaf Calinou: so this CPU I believe can run MT server very well http://ark.intel.com/products/34692
07:58 Megaf wow, nevermind, still very expensive CPU
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08:03 IhrFussel Tried to call Strato but takes too long..will try later again
08:04 Megaf you have to pay for support in strato
08:05 Megaf support and community are two of the reasons I use Linode :)
08:05 Megaf by the way http://www.independent.ie/world-news​/dolphins-talk-like-we-do-say-scient​ists-who-recorded-them-35040757.html
08:05 IhrFussel Megaf, no, only 24 hours support costs money
08:05 Megaf !title
08:05 MinetestBot Megaf: Dolphins 'talk' like we do, say scientists who recorded them - Independent.ie
08:06 Megaf I wish they would publish their sources, I'm sure it wasn't a reporter from them that went to the place and talked to the scientists
08:07 Megaf That's better http://lazywap.in/dolphins-recorded-conve​rsation-just-like-two-people-first-time/
08:07 Megaf !title
08:07 MinetestBot Megaf: Dolphins recorded having a conversation 'just like two people' for first time | Lazywap
08:08 IhrFussel Megaf, sadly very few people care about sources...In gaming topics for example fans already believe a rumor when it says "Source: Anonymous" lol
08:08 Megaf I will never forget when once I published an april fools joke on my blog. Lots of people took as something real
08:10 IhrFussel Megaf, was it on April 1? Cause some YouTubers did April Fools jokes a few days later and the people believed it
08:10 Megaf yep, it was
08:11 IhrFussel Then they were pretty naive
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08:22 Megaf well, I found the source IhrFussel http://www.sciencedirect.com/scie​nce/article/pii/S240572231630117
08:22 Megaf because this site published it https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/32591469/​scientists-record-two-dolphins-talkin​g-and-listening-to-each-other/#page1
08:26 IhrFussel Megaf, great find =) Btw i vacuum'd my DB earlier: old size 2617 MB, new 2464 MB
08:26 Megaf heh, at least you had a larger reduction then I had
08:27 Megaf but I had vacuum it a couple of times already
08:27 IhrFussel Probably cause I deleted over 1000 mapblocks yesterday
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08:41 Buttatoes I'm looking for a new minetest server, I was playing on Arsdragonflys but his server has been down for days. I think it's time to move on. does anyone know of a good landrush server?
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08:45 Megaf oh, does it has to be landrush?
08:45 Megaf Buttatoes: I know a very stable server that have been running for 4 years
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08:49 Buttatoes do you have plans on shutting it down soon?
08:49 Buttatoes Megaf: I kid, what is it I'd be happy to check it out
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09:28 Megaf !server Megaf
09:28 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms
09:28 Megaf Buttatoes: there
09:28 Megaf I'm online there right now
09:32 Buttatoes Thanks Magaf, I'm going to finish an unprotected farm on Calinou 's server first
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10:21 Calinou Buttatoes: does my server look messier than the average Doom 2 map yet?
10:21 Calinou didn't log in for a while :p
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10:36 Buttatoes Calinou: just outside of spawn, yes :D
10:38 IhrFussel agaran, /status gets logged now so no need to tell me the lag anymore =)
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10:44 IhrFussel agaran, and I removed the craft_guide mod and added an ABM to turn any craft_guide signs into air
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11:32 XeonSquared Is there information for writing something using digilines?
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11:47 XeonSquared Welp, guess I'm just gonna have to go in blind and hope I can make something happen.
11:48 DuCake joined #minetest
11:49 DuCake ..... minetest.net went offline ....?
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12:36 Fixer IhrFussel: use craft_guide by jp
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12:44 XeonSquared I'm gonna document my findings somewhere once I figure out how to digilines
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12:52 IhrFussel Fixer, I have unified_inventory, it contains a craft guide AFAIK
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14:24 kruug Hijiri: right, pointed_thing returns coordinates, and get_node takes in those coordinates.
14:26 kruug Now, I could just have it check "pointed_thing" every "tick"...
14:27 kruug that's roughly 1/20th of a second, correct?
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15:04 agaran IhrFussel: good,
15:06 agaran IhrFussel: still now there is 13.x lag..
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15:26 Megaf Hi all, if you like cars, I mean, really like cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wFuuAfYdnw
15:26 Megaf !title
15:26 MinetestBot Megaf: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider: Is the Fiata as good as the Miata? - Ignition Ep. 160 - YouTube
15:26 Megaf And that presenter is just great
15:27 Megaf [11:21:32] <Calinou> Buttatoes: does my server look messier than the average Doom 2 map yet?
15:27 Megaf lol
15:27 Megaf This is one of the things I'm proud of my server, organized
15:27 Megaf very
15:28 Megaf we have villages, towns, neighborhoods, roads and streets. Tunnels, bridges and water ways connecting things
15:28 Megaf And I'm building an oceanic road too
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16:02 nm0i Hi
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16:05 Megaf Hi nm0i
16:05 nm0i My server is paragon of disorganization.
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16:08 Megaf !server paragon
16:08 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
16:08 Megaf heh, could be a could name
16:08 Megaf !server nm0i
16:08 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
16:08 Megaf nm0i: how is it called?
16:09 nm0i !server Light
16:09 MinetestBot nm0i: Light creative | 178.79.185.175:30005 | Clients: 7/18, 7/18 | Version: 0.4.14 / stabilizer | Ping: 7ms
16:09 Megaf ph, creative servers are messy yes
16:09 Megaf s//ph/oh
16:09 nm0i Nah, if you use banhammer freequently.
16:14 Megaf what does it do?
16:15 nm0i Band people that build ugly flying platforms :3
16:15 Megaf lol
16:15 nm0i s/and/ans/
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16:18 Megaf well, gotta go, cya later
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16:20 IhrFussel Wait you BAN players that build not very creative or something else than you have in mind for your creative server? That's power abuse IMO
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16:22 IhrFussel You could take away their creative priv or interact but locking them out of your entire server for "bad" building is a bit extreme
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16:23 IhrFussel Good/bad buildings is nothing objective...it's completely subjective just as pretty/ugly
16:23 aix i think wed agree dirt huts are definitely ugly
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16:25 IhrFussel aix, no I've already seen nice dirt buildings...of course it was no simple dirt box
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16:25 kruug aix: sometimes you just need a hut to spend the night
16:26 aix spend the night?
16:26 aix we dont have monsters
16:26 deva Is there a callback for left click activation?
16:27 IhrFussel On my server I rarely ban and if I/moderators ban it's for 6 hours...I'm using another "trick" to get most players to build creative houses/buildings: Any player that built something nice gets fly priv
16:27 deva I looked at the source for doors and signs but could find the code in any of the places...
16:28 IhrFussel deva, leftclick is on_punch I think
16:29 IhrFussel Rightclick could be on_use but not sure
16:30 deva I can't make on_use work... perhaps I'm missing an attriute to make it active?
16:30 deva But you're right... I remembered incorrectly. I would like to catch *left click* :-)
16:33 IhrFussel deva, lua_api.txt says there is on_rightclick too
16:34 deva IhrFussel, That seem to work
16:35 deva Thanks :-)
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16:59 MinetestBot Krock: Sep-12 13:03 UTC <Jordach> Audacity has plenty of use
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17:06 Rasmez_ Hi everybody :D
17:06 Krock hi ... you.
17:07 Rasmez_ I'm sorta new here btw
17:07 Krock Welcome, new. I'm Krock.
17:07 Rasmez_ Hi Krock, nice to read you :D
17:08 Krock :P
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17:08 Rasmez_ do you know something about developing subgames in Minetest, Krock?
17:09 Krock well, what would you like to do? create a new one or contribute to an existing?
17:09 Krock I know how to Git, so the hardest part is done
17:09 Rasmez_ Create a new one, basically from the ground up
17:10 Rasmez_ 100% my code, at least in early versions
17:10 Rasmez_ i'm also doing the textures and models
17:11 Krock then keep a look at the minetest_game structure and the description in the minetest wiki. It is useful to start with a new one when you already understood how modpacks work
17:11 Krock *understand
17:12 Krock prepare the subgame locally, then you're sure that it will work evena after uploading it to github :)
17:12 Krock *even
17:13 Rasmez_ I'm look it already, I need to know how to create a new "default" mod, see, mine it's called "basic" with a new structure, so i need to know some things...
17:13 Krock so, gonna be away for some minutes
17:13 Rasmez_ ok... i only have 1 particular question
17:14 Rasmez_ with what 3D editor other than blender i can make a new player model? (i'm using ubuntu)
17:17 Rasmez_ Someone else is on? hello?
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17:30 Rasmez_ Someone here can help me with the modeling problem that i have?
17:30 AnotherBrick i guess you can use whatever editor that support .x files
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17:34 T4im how about you explain the problem first, then maybe someone knows how to help :)
17:34 Rasmez_ don't wanna use .x files... i'm using linux and .x it's propietary format from Microsoft (i guess)
17:34 T4im directx stuff iirc, ya
17:35 Rasmez_ I'm in a dire need of a 3D editor that allow me to create models for Minetest, free (i'm so friking broke) and not that complicated (exclude Blender)
17:35 Rasmez_ animated models to be exact, i found many to work with static models :D
17:36 T4im while i read the excluding blender part, i fear the answer would still be blender x)
17:36 T4im at least I'm not aware there to be another good option
17:37 T4im but as complicated as it is, there are also a whole lot of tutorials out there
17:37 Rasmez_ my problem with blender is the interface, i'm used to older version of blender, and the new (2.49 onwards) i can't customize the UI to fit in my laptop screen
17:38 kruug so keep using the old version
17:38 Rasmez_ but the old version don't have the b3d exporter :(
17:39 Rasmez_ at least i can't find it anywhere..
17:39 kruug so learn the new version
17:40 AnotherBrick new version can't be fitted into his laptop's screen
17:40 Rasmez_ the problem is not learing, is that the new version does not have the UI tools for voxel modeling :(
17:41 Rasmez_ ohhh guys guys maybe i find a solution
17:42 Rasmez_ i can use VoxelShop to make the static model, then export it as a COLLADA file, then import that COLLADA in Blender, animate there (the animation gui fits my screen) and then export to B3D for Minetest
17:42 Rasmez_ it's an overkill but i'll try
17:45 Rasmez_ I'm making a totally new subgame for Minetest btw
17:46 Rasmez_ is a fantasy/RPG/sandbox thingy XD
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17:49 Rasmez_ i mean, it has fantasy elements (like using various "magic" crystals to power contraptions and capture/spawn creatures), RPG elements (such as skills, and other progression systems), and the obvious sandbox elements of Mintest
17:49 Rasmez_ but i'm doing all of that from the ground up, 100% my own code, sounds, music, textures, etc, etc, etc.
17:50 AnotherBrick iirc there are some rpg mods for minetest, may be  you can steal some code from them
17:50 AnotherBrick ah, ok
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17:50 Rasmez_ i will learn for other mods of course
17:51 Rasmez_ but i don't steal code...
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17:55 Rasmez_ well time for a lunch break, read you later guys :D
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18:03 Krock re
18:05 Hijiri kruug: pointed_thing isn't a single value, it's a class of values
18:05 Hijiri if this was a language with user-definable types it would be a type
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18:14 kruug Hijiri: oh, so as a mod maker, we couldn't use "pointed_thing" to see what node the user is pointing at?
18:17 IhrFussel Hijiri, I'm using tail -F directly on the log now and redirect any new line to a log.txt file...seems to catch every line so far
18:18 Krock kruug, you only know the pointed thing when the player hits the node or anything other happened
18:18 Krock only looking around does not provide Lua the pointed thing
18:18 kruug :/
18:18 kruug That must be why there's no WAILA-like mod yet, then
18:19 Krock huh
18:19 kruug The game knows the draw the black box around the pointed node...
18:19 kruug it just doesn't make that data available to the API
18:20 Krock the _client_ knows it
18:20 Krock the server usually doesn't
18:20 kruug sure, and WAILA would be a client mod
18:20 Krock >client mods
18:20 kruug don't need to be concerned about the server
18:21 Krock it may take years until we have a small client mod support
18:22 kruug Ah, so the mods, even if they're made for single player, are still considered server-mods?
18:23 Krock singleplayer is like an official server
18:23 Krock it just doesn't announce or allow other clients to connect to it
18:24 Krock same system, but with only one user
18:24 kruug So, trying to see what node the user is pointing at would require one to completely write it from scratch, and not use the games API
18:25 Krock no, there's already a pull for this
18:25 Krock but as you might know, they're pending for a long time
18:25 kruug yeah, I've heard that from the forums and #minetest-dev...
18:26 kruug it's almost like Minetest doesn't want to actually be a Minecraft competitor...since the release schedule is so slow
18:27 Krock but honestly I'd prefer an API with the tweaked old code, as it's much easuer to understand
18:27 Krock (on C++ side)
18:27 Hijiri I like the iterator approach though, it makes it easy to ignore stuff you don't want
18:27 Krock find more C++ game developers and the releases will come quicker
18:28 IhrFussel Minetest needs to be a niche game IMO or else Microsoft could start paying attention to it and try to sue (even though they legally have no points to make I think)
18:29 Hijiri I don't think they would sue for that
18:30 Hijiri it would be a waste of their money, considering there is no money to squeeze from the minetest project
18:30 IhrFussel Hijiri, I feel like MS is like Nintendo in that regard...if your fan project stays small and only a few people know about it/play it they are fine but even a fan project can become a problem if it's too popular
18:30 IhrFussel Then they would send a C&D
18:31 Hijiri yes but those Nintendo fan projects are typically copyright violations
18:31 Hijiri minetest is not
18:32 IhrFussel Hijiri, I believe MS lawyers would find some way to shut it down...they could mention the "copied" concept and visuals
18:33 Hijiri two points:
18:33 Hijiri concepts would be something to patent, usually, if it's abstract like a voxel game
18:33 Hijiri Such a patent wouldn't hold since there is plenty of prior art
18:33 kruug IhrFussel: like Infiniminer, that came before Minecraft was a thing?
18:33 Hijiri at least Infiniminer is
18:33 IhrFussel I know that the source code, textures etc are original...but visually we can all agree that many could mistake this as Minecraft I think
18:34 Hijiri The visuals are look and feel, which you can't sue for. Microsoft was heavily involved in look-and-feel cases in the past, so they would know.
18:34 kruug IhrFussel: and Minecraft could be mistaken for an updated Infiniminer
18:34 Hijiri microsoft lawyers wouldn't mistake it for minecraft
18:34 Hijiri If they did sue it would be out of malice
18:36 IhrFussel Guys I know some laws about trademarks/copyrights...I'm just saying that the lawyers probably find ways to "scare" game developers
18:37 Hijiri probably?
18:37 Hijiri maybe you can find past instances where microsoft sued non-developing game developers in bad faith
18:37 Hijiri not non-developing
18:37 Hijiri not profiting?
18:38 Hijiri or even profiting ones that are not violations
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18:39 Hijiri If they don't have a trend of such lawsuits then there isn't a reason to think they would sue for this. They have plenty of opportunities since they have copyright on many games
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18:57 IhrFussel Hm true
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19:05 FirePowi Hi, in the Exemple : http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.override_item it add unbreakable=1 to "default:mese1 and don't affect other groups. That's it ?
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20:10 nm0i IhrFussel: http://memestorage.com/_nw/43/41048808.jpg
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21:15 Megaf !seen Gniewomir
21:15 MinetestBot Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen gniewomir around.
21:15 Megaf !seen Maxela
21:15 MinetestBot Megaf: maxela was last seen at 2016-09-01 11:59:36 UTC on #minetest
21:15 Megaf !seen Gronx
21:15 MinetestBot Megaf: gronx was last seen at 2013-12-27 17:26:39 UTC on #minetest
21:17 AnotherBrick !seen seen
21:17 MinetestBot AnotherBrick: Sorry, I haven't seen seen around.
21:18 AnotherBrick !seen around
21:18 MinetestBot AnotherBrick: Sorry, I haven't seen around around.
21:18 Megaf AnotherBrick: in the wall
21:18 AnotherBrick yup
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21:19 kruug !seen Megaf
21:19 MinetestBot kruug: megaf was last seen at 2016-09-12 21:18:28 UTC on #minetest
21:20 kruug !seen MinetestBot
21:20 MinetestBot kruug: minetestbot was last seen at 2016-09-04 07:55:55 UTC on #minetest-fr
21:24 Out`Of`Control !any MinetestBot
21:26 kruug !seen me
21:26 MinetestBot kruug: me was last seen at 2015-10-14 19:53:45 UTC on #minetest
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21:38 XeonSquared anyone know if I can send tables over digilines?
21:44 Player_2 joined #minetest
21:46 behalebabo XeonSquared: yes, you can
21:46 behalebabo just send it like any other message
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23:05 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest: Plantlike meshoptions: fix degrotate. (#4512) d83bcf2 https://git.io/vizoL (2016-09-12T16:04:13-07:00)
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23:43 Megaf Hello
23:48 Megaf Just got home from the pub, don't know if I go to bed or if I work out a little bit
23:49 Megaf it's 00:48
23:49 Megaf :)
23:49 Megaf !seen kruug
23:49 MinetestBot Megaf: kruug was last seen at 2016-09-12 21:26:15 UTC on #minetest
23:49 Megaf check mate
23:50 Megaf XeonSquared: that's a good question
23:51 Megaf as behalebabo said, you can
23:58 Megaf well, good night folks

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