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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-04-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:13 Pilcrow joined #minetest
00:14 alex`` joined #minetest
00:18 * Pilcrow shakes #minetest to see if anything falls out
00:21 * VanessaE watches as little pieces fall off
00:21 VanessaE dude, is that supposed to be loose like that?
00:22 Pilcrow lol
00:23 Zeno` joined #minetest
00:24 * Pilcrow wishes there was a minetest.registered_abms() or something, to figure out how many abms are acting on a node...
00:34 kiwitest joined #minetest
00:36 kiwitest left #minetest
00:39 VanessaE there, see?  you shook it so hard Zeno` fell out
00:40 VanessaE (it just took a while for the vibrations to reach his side of the channel ;) )
00:41 Zeno` wahhhhh?
00:41 VanessaE haha
00:41 VanessaE [04-08 20:22] * Pilcrow shakes #minetest to see if anything falls out
00:41 VanessaE [04-08 20:24] * VanessaE watches as little pieces fall off
00:41 VanessaE [04-08 20:24] <VanessaE> dude, is that supposed to be loose like that?
00:42 Zeno` I was asleep as well :(
00:42 Pilcrow ^ the fall must've knocked him out.  :P
00:46 VanessaE heh
00:46 Zeno` coconuts!
00:47 VanessaE Albuquerque!
00:47 Zeno` $ emacs -batch -l dunnet
00:47 Zeno` bash: emacs: command not found
00:47 Zeno` :(
00:48 Zeno` I'm not going to install emacs just to shake the tree and get killed by a coconut
00:48 VanessaE why do you need an operating system for your operating system anyway? :P
00:48 Zeno` I don't. I need a vim version of dunnet
00:48 Zeno` heh
00:49 Pilcrow Zeno, just type this in bash: ":() { :|:; }; :"  ... ok, don't. that'll freeze your computer...   :P
00:50 Zeno` :() { :|:; }; :
00:50 Zeno` computer seems ok
00:50 * jin_xi forks
00:50 VanessaE I thought bash generally handled forkbombs ok these days?
00:52 Zeno` I shall try it then
00:52 VanessaE I could be wrong :P
00:52 Pilcrow VanessaE: not that I know of... but I haven't been dumb enough to try in years...  ;P
00:52 Zeno` computer still works
00:53 Zeno` bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
00:53 Zeno` Terminated
00:53 Zeno` I survived!
00:53 Pilcrow interesting
00:53 Zeno` see only the brave discover these things
00:54 Zeno` lol
00:54 * Zeno` feels tall and mighty now
00:54 VanessaE Zeno`: why are there tentacles growing out of your power supply
00:54 VanessaE ?
00:54 Zeno` those are tapeworms
00:54 * Zeno` pushes them back inside
00:54 VanessaE heh
00:55 Pilcrow VanessaE: I've seen enough hentai to... wait... ...  O_o
00:55 Zeno` I wonder how well bash handles the c version of da fork bomb
00:55 VanessaE and is your screen supposed to be slowly cycling colors like that, outside your screensaver?
00:55 VanessaE :)
00:55 Zeno` yeah, I've already ordered a new monitor
00:55 Zeno` how did you know?
00:56 Pilcrow spycams
00:56 Zeno` 2560x1440 goodness
00:56 VanessaE hehe
00:56 Zeno` I had to buy it to test, umm, minetests dpi handling?
00:57 Pilcrow totally valid justification, Zeno`  :P
00:57 Zeno` I thought so :D
00:57 Megaf_ joined #minetest
00:58 * Pilcrow has never had a monitor that supports more than 1366x768
01:00 sofar Pilcrow: https://github.com/sofar/crops
01:00 sofar Pilcrow: also https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=11795
01:01 jin_xi btw VanessaE could you please confirm the bug with particle spawners? fix is ready. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2605
01:02 Pilcrow ah, awesome, sofar. I'll be sure to check it out!  :)
01:02 sofar Pilcrow: working on a new mesh model for corn right now
01:02 sofar might be the second crop I add
01:03 sofar I'm not so sure about pumpkins yet... they are not directly edible
01:03 sofar maybe I'll add squash instead
01:03 VanessaE jin_xi: I can confirm that bug, yes.
01:03 Pilcrow ooh, corn. I'm assuming that will be multi-node, like cactus and papyrus?
01:03 VanessaE lemme try your patch...
01:03 sofar 2-node structures
01:04 sofar corn -> corn plant -> grows 2-4 ears of corn -> corn (craft) -> popcorn (cook)
01:04 Zeno` my fork bomb sucks
01:04 sofar maybe I'll leave the ears of corn out, seems an excessive step that's not needed
01:04 Zeno` int main(void) { pid_t t = fork(); if (t == -1) perror("Error"); else printf("%d\n", t); for (;;); }
01:05 Zeno` it's not even a firecracker
01:05 sofar Pilcrow: also, corn will automatically wither and the plant will die if left unharvested
01:05 Pilcrow lol Zeno`, it didn't work?
01:05 Sokomine the wheat in the default minetest game is strange. that's why i added the "machines" in my cottages mod
01:05 Sokomine sofar: that's not very practical
01:05 sofar so corn forces you to weed your land
01:05 Zeno` well it does spawn two processes
01:06 sofar Sokomine: it'll wither very, very slowly if left with corn ears, but fast after harvesting the ears
01:06 sofar it'll be a decent balance
01:06 sofar the idea is to make it a good crop for people who tend to their plants a lot
01:07 sofar but make it less useful if you stick to your mines forever
01:07 Sokomine even those will not be there all the time, and others will pass by the fields....
01:07 sofar yup, intentional. Like I said corn plants with cobs on them won't wither very fast
01:07 VanessaE seems to work fine, jin_xi
01:08 Sokomine sofar: ah, ok
01:08 jin_xi yes i think its correct. just adds particles to update queue, which seems to have been forgotten
01:08 sofar Sokomine: feel free to suggest other crops you may think work well in the game
01:08 jin_xi well, if you can make a note on the github i'd be ever so grateful so hopefully someone can review and commit
01:09 sofar I'm looking for suggestions
01:09 VanessaE done.
01:09 Pilcrow personally, I'd love to see crops that work similarly to Harvest Moon ones. been thinking about making that mod, myself. maybe with a special node for selling crops and buying seeds, as well...  :3
01:10 jin_xi thanks VanessaE
01:11 sofar Pilcrow: which mod is that?
01:12 Pilcrow sofar: it's not a mod, yet. I'm saying I'd like crops that work similar to the Harvest Moon game series. I'm thinking about programming a mod like that.
01:13 Zeno` VanessaE will help you, Pilcrow
01:13 sofar ohh okay. any references around to see for me so I can figure out what you mean?
01:13 Zeno` Get her to do all the hard stuff (like the millions of item defs etc)
01:13 VanessaE ...
01:13 Zeno` :3
01:15 Pilcrow lol Zeno. I'd probably set up a loop for registering the different growth stages. maybe even turn it into an api?  :)
01:17 Zeno` oh gosh
01:18 Zeno` loops are overused; I prefer spirals
01:18 Pilcrow sofar: I'm watching something with my sister and can't look for references yet, but specifically for corn, I was thinking a stalk you can take the corn off of, then water the plant and it will make more corn in a few days, without having to re-plant the corn. the first crop takes longer to show up.
01:19 Pilcrow Zeno`: ok, I'll program a trapezoid. how's that?  :P
01:19 Zeno` I will write a program now
01:19 Pilcrow ?
01:19 Zeno` using the new methodology I have devised
01:19 Zeno` just thought of it then
01:21 Pilcrow Zeno`: lol. I love it when coming up with something goofy actually inspires an interesting idea... that actually happens to me a lot...  :P
01:25 Pilcrow say, wasn't there an old 'seasons' mod at one point? I don't think it works any more, but I think I recall seeing something like that long ago...
01:27 Sokomine anyway...new plants are always welcome
01:30 sethj joined #minetest
01:30 * Pilcrow wants to turn minetest into Harvest Moon meets Zelda meets Minecraft...  :P
01:30 exio4 hi weird people
01:30 sethj Anyone know what happened to the landrush server?
01:30 Pilcrow hello other weird person!
01:31 exio4 aww, hi Pilcrow!
01:31 Pilcrow sorry sethj, I've got no idea...  :\
01:32 sethj It seems to have died :(
01:32 Zeno` I dunno if it will catch on
01:32 Zeno` it's pretty... stupid
01:32 Pilcrow lol
01:32 Pilcrow how stupid?  :P
01:32 Zeno` very :(
01:32 Zeno` I thought it would be amazing
01:32 Zeno` but alas, no
01:33 Pilcrow aww. why does it not work well?
01:33 Zeno` well, it works
01:34 Zeno` maybe I need to write a python wrapper to generate code
01:34 est31 wut??
01:34 exio4 >python
01:34 exio4 >2015
01:34 * Pilcrow is confused by whatever Zeno` is trying to do...  :P
01:34 Zeno` https://ideone.com/oQxCvO
01:35 est31 preprocessor does that kinda stuff
01:35 Zeno` pfft
01:35 Zeno` stringification?
01:35 Zeno` I suppose it does
01:35 est31 ?
01:36 Zeno` nah it doesn't I don't think
01:36 Zeno` no for the function name part... does it?
01:36 Zeno` not for*
01:36 Zeno` I could have each function call another function!
01:37 Zeno` another random function!
01:37 Zeno` this'll be great
01:38 Pilcrow lol. I think Zeno` has gon insane...  :D
01:38 est31 wuts your goal
01:39 Zeno` do I need a goal?
01:39 Zeno` is that why I always go wrong? Not having a goal? :(
01:40 Pilcrow VanessaE: I think you're right; I shook Zeno` too hard earlier...   :P
01:40 est31 lol
01:40 est31 yea seems so
01:43 Pilcrow Zeno`: maybe you should just make a function that calls itself, with a random parameter?  :P
01:43 Johnsen2 joined #minetest
01:43 exio4 function that call themselves?
01:43 exio4 I like it
01:45 Zeno` hmm, I need a terminating condition
01:45 Zeno` Pilcrow, recursion... well this can result in recursion
01:45 Zeno` which is why I need the terminating condition
01:45 est31 you have one already
01:45 est31 the size of your stack :p
01:46 exio4 he may go with a tail-recursive function
01:46 roboman2444 joined #minetest
01:46 exio4 and then it gets optimized
01:46 exio4 bam! constant space => no terminating condition
01:46 est31 then turn optimisations off
01:47 est31 most times they only draw your attention at them
01:47 est31 and introduce bugs like this one
01:47 exio4 ... that is not a bug?
01:47 exio4 it's TCO, a known optimization
01:47 Zeno` finished!
01:47 est31 When a programmer writes a self calling function, they might want to use the stack for terminating
01:48 Zeno` tail recursion optimisation would still end in an infinite loop
01:48 exio4 est31: uh?
01:48 exio4 est31: you know that sounds a lot like xkcd's "Workflow", don't you?
01:49 Zeno` https://ideone.com/BgJS3v
01:49 est31 like that one
01:49 Zeno` look at that baby
01:49 est31 NOOO
01:49 est31 it has been copied on my disk
01:49 est31 I mean RAM
01:49 Zeno` oh noes :(
01:50 Zeno` you owe me $10000000
01:50 * est31 feels like an infringer
01:50 VanessaE Sokomine: *poke*
01:50 * est31 runs away
01:50 Zeno` est31, I will allow you to have a copy
01:50 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest
01:50 Zeno` just don't sell it
01:51 exio4 too late
01:51 DI3HARD139 hiya
01:51 Zeno` or if you make a nice poem I want to read it
01:51 Pilcrow Zeno`, this code is nucking futs!  :D
01:52 Zeno` ught there is a BUG
01:52 DI3HARD139 lol
01:52 Zeno` https://ideone.com/rwbSXp
01:52 Zeno` fixed
01:53 exio4 est31: I don't know how a silly program gives you an excuse to consider TCO a bug
01:53 est31 That program may be silly, but business applications may depend on that
01:54 exio4 wth?
01:54 est31 I mean, you need to be abled to make assumptions
01:54 est31 about how your code behaves
01:55 Pilcrow I don't know the reasoning behind parenthesizing n... but I don't really understand this code much anyway; no real knowledge of C...
01:55 est31 compilers should translate your program into machine code
01:55 est31 not be smarter than you
01:55 Zeno` est31, you've seen my leap year program?
01:55 est31 nope
01:55 Zeno` oh!
01:55 Zeno` let me find it
01:56 exio4 est31: well, I'd like to know how you translate a lazy language which heavily uses closures to machine code and not die while doing that
01:56 Zeno` https://ideone.com/ygwc9k
01:57 Zeno` the method is patented by me
01:57 exio4 I am just saying a compiler's job is to be smarter
01:57 Zeno` but you can use it
01:57 JohnnyComeL8ly joined #minetest
01:57 est31 exio4, don't use broken patterns in your language design
01:57 Zeno` it's optimised as well
01:57 Zeno` doesn't use modulo arithmetic
01:58 Zeno` 'cause divisions are slow
01:58 exio4 est31: ...? broken patterns?
01:58 est31 stuff like closures doesnt make things fly
01:58 Der joined #minetest
01:58 exio4 est31: you're the first person I see that calls closures a broken pattern
01:58 Zeno` Red Bull does
01:59 Zeno` except it doesn't
01:59 Zeno` I drank one and jumped off my roof
01:59 Zeno` almost broke a leg
01:59 est31 I wont be the last, just wait until people wake up
01:59 Der Hey guys, does anyone know of anywhere that a world can be hosted for free? I'm wanting to start an element type world (fire, water, air, and earth).
01:59 * Zeno` adds his isleap() function to minetest/src/utils/numeric.cpp
02:00 exio4 est31: I'd like to know any 'source' for that?
02:00 exio4 est31: what's the wrong thing with closures?
02:00 Hijiri predictions by nostradamus
02:00 Zeno` Knights of the Lambda Calculus Unite!
02:00 ecutruin joined #minetest
02:00 Zeno` ni
02:00 jin_xi a shrubbery
02:00 exio4 they not being "easy to compile" doesn't seem like a cool answer, considering that OOP can be thought as subtyped records of closures
02:00 exio4 (modulo the shiny parts!)
02:00 est31 Its damn obvious. you can be turing complete without them, and passing contexts just makes things go wrong
02:01 Hijiri there is a lot you can be turing complete without
02:01 Zeno` like SQL
02:01 Zeno` wait that's not turing complete
02:01 exio4 SQL isn't turing complete and really useful
02:01 exio4 Brainfuck is turing complete and useless
02:01 est31 also, traditional memory management of C is underrated
02:01 Hijiri and "passing contexts just makes things go wrong" is only a little bit different from the claim that closures are bad
02:01 Zeno` C doesn't specify memory management
02:02 Zeno` outside of the standard's scope
02:02 est31 malloc?
02:02 Zeno` well, I'm not including malloc and friends (and free) "management"
02:03 exio4 considering that carrying contexts in an explicit manner is pretty much idiomatic C...
02:03 Zeno` but malloc etc are all you need
02:04 exio4 I would argue that the only reason to actually use a garbage collector (or a powerful type system like Rust's) is to be able to use function / closures / etc in a really nice way
02:04 * Pilcrow wonders if he logged into #minetest-dev by mistake....  :P
02:04 exio4 I won't deny manual memory management + closures is a bad combination
02:04 Zeno` Pilcrow, the conversation in there is not nearly as exciting
02:04 est31 exio4, garbage collection is one of the biggest ills that were introduced
02:04 est31 ever
02:05 exio4 I don't think so
02:05 Zeno` apart from exceptions
02:05 exio4 garbage collection allow programming languages to evolve
02:05 est31 Its one of those things where compilers and runtimes try to be smarter than the programmer
02:05 est31 programming languages shouldnt evolve, programs should
02:05 Pilcrow heh. this would be more exciting if I understood it, Zeno`...  ;)
02:05 exio4 uh?
02:05 exio4 you're trolling right?
02:05 Hijiri and of course, we have established that compilers and runtimes should never try to be smarter than the programmers
02:06 est31 langs are there to give programs space to evolve
02:06 Hijiri which is why we can use it to support this argument
02:06 est31 not the other way round
02:06 exio4 Hijiri: if all we want is compilers that aren't smarter than programmers, we shouldn't have went past ASM
02:06 Hijiri maybe we just need to go back to our roots
02:06 est31 ASM is bad too
02:06 exio4 lambda calculus? 8)
02:06 Zeno` asm? that's a bit advanced
02:07 Zeno` binary baby
02:07 Zeno` all the way
02:07 exio4 that's about smart as we can get
02:07 Hijiri I wire electrodes to my brain and think in just the right way to send the right pulses down the wires
02:07 est31 exio4, dont overexagerrate
02:07 exio4 considering that compiling code nowdays means more than naively writing ASM
02:08 Zeno` poke 53280, 10
02:08 est31 also, if you have good compilers that dont try to do the programmers job, you get ASM automatically from C code
02:08 est31 C is portable ASM isnt
02:08 exio4 that is a lie
02:08 Hijiri the purpose of programming languages is to write programs. Programming languages should make it easier to write programs
02:08 est31 the JVM is tainted
02:09 Hijiri that could mean it's easier to make correct, more performant, etc., but maybe we should start from that point
02:09 est31 by gc
02:09 Hijiri but actually I have to leave
02:09 est31 bye
02:09 exio4 \o Hijiri
02:09 Hijiri bye chat
02:09 exio4 est31: I _still_ don't get your point
02:09 Pilcrow bye Hijiri
02:09 exio4 est31: are you arguing anything that isn't trivial shouldn't be done at all, or..?
02:09 Zeno` nobody has mentioned "reading" programs yet
02:09 Zeno` COBOL is far easier to read than C
02:10 exio4 I wouldn't say that is true
02:10 Zeno` probably because it has more letters it its acronym
02:10 Zeno` Grace Hopper obviously thought through it well
02:10 exio4 est31: now, it is when you say that types are useless, right?
02:11 est31 types should be strong.
02:11 Zeno` strong like tarzan
02:11 est31 or steel
02:11 exio4 yup, we can all agree that Haskell's type system is really cool
02:11 est31 thats shit
02:11 exio4 k
02:11 est31 like the whole language
02:11 sythe joined #minetest
02:12 est31 function pointers and exceptions were the two bad things in C
02:12 exio4 C doesn't have exceptions
02:12 exio4 but sure
02:12 exio4 if you say so
02:12 est31 sorry you are right
02:12 est31 whatever, they are bad
02:12 exio4 why would function pointers be bad, too?
02:13 exio4 you've been saying "that's shit, it sucks" all the way, without giving us any reason of the why, such that it is a real reason, and no the silly "it's harder to compile than a conditional"
02:14 exio4 which, makes sense, considering that a conditional is a low level primitive, which also suffers from the boolean blindness and blabla
02:14 est31 function pointers let compiler writers design "optimisations" again
02:14 Pilcrow let's all go back to BASIC. line numbers and GOTOs are where it's at!  *trollface*
02:15 exio4 that'd be really nice
02:15 exio4 considering that everything is a jump at the low-level
02:15 exio4 est31: what?
02:15 exio4 is it still april fools in your side or what? lol
02:16 est31 basic should get float typed line numbers, thats unused potential
02:16 exio4 lol
02:16 Pilcrow haha
02:16 exio4 I get it now
02:16 exio4 you looked serious dude
02:16 exio4 mfw
02:16 est31 :D
02:16 Chanku Alright I have a question
02:16 Chanku What is the use of Function Pointers?
02:17 est31 you dont know what they are?
02:17 Chanku No
02:17 Chanku Then again my experience with C is basic...and I do mean BASIC
02:18 exio4 they're basically pointers to functions, which you can then call, they're useful when loading dynamic modules (such that they give you a "function" to something useful (or not)), simulating closures and thus callbacks
02:18 exio4 they're basically like a whole new world if you don't know about them
02:18 exio4 Chanku: which languages do you know?
02:19 Chanku Well Visual Basic, A bit of java, Lua, Python, and C
02:20 Chanku TBH I'm a bit better versed in Java and Lua than the others
02:20 exio4 lua!
02:20 Johnsen2 joined #minetest
02:21 Chanku And TBH I learned lua for MineTest :P
02:21 Chanku Speaking of which I need to rebuild and re-setup my Minetest enviroment
02:22 Gay joined #minetest
02:22 Pilcrow I probably remember more lua than any other language (except if you count bash scripting), since I'm using it on pretty much a daily basis for minetest mods... although I actually learned lua for MegaGlest, lol.
02:23 exio4 Chanku: can you guess what this code would print? http://dpaste.com/0N0AGGW
02:23 Chanku I don't think it would return anything :/
02:24 Chanku Although then again I am probably wrong, but it doesn't look like it would return anything...
02:24 Pilcrow if anything, I'd think it would return 3...
02:24 Chanku true, but wouldn't you have to put parameters into something and then lfn?
02:24 est31 thats basically function pointers
02:24 Chanku And okay
02:25 * Chanku waits for MineTest to compile
02:25 exio4 Chanku: what do you mean? something() returns a "function" that then takes two parameters
02:25 Chanku yes
02:26 Chanku but you aren't giving any parameters to something() thus parameters are not given to w and/or y
02:26 Chanku unless I'm missing somethin
02:26 exio4 the core difference between function pointers and real high order functions is that function pointers are really limited and constrained (but way easier to implement, obviously)
02:26 Chanku *something
02:26 Chanku which I probably am...
02:26 exio4 Chanku: something()(1,2)
02:26 Chanku Ah alright
02:27 Chanku I wasn't sure if the extra ()'s was actually passing parameters or not :/
02:27 exio4 something() returns a function, right? so (something()) gives me a function, and I give that function the parameters 1 and 2
02:27 exio4 Chanku: I tried to make it look weird!
02:27 Chanku Well you sure did a good job
02:27 Chanku :3
02:30 Pilcrow I get it. something() returns the actual function lfn, rather than trying to execute that function. then the returned lfn is fed the 1 and 2, so it would output 3... now, if something() returned lfn() instead of just lfn, I assume it would cause errors since lfn would be sent no parameters (and thus, it would try to return nil+nil*nil)...
02:31 exio4 yeah
02:32 VanessaE my G*d, I think even I understood that. :)
02:32 Johnsen2 ...
02:32 Pilcrow btw... does that actually *work* in lua?
02:32 Chanku ^
02:32 est31 yes
02:33 Johnsen2 VanessaE, too much science and smartness going on here aye?
02:33 VanessaE heh
02:33 exio4 http://dpaste.com/1SXAVEZ
02:33 exio4 this is pretty much what is shiny and that'd be just as easy to do with function pointers
02:33 Pilcrow VanessaE: just curiuos, what languages do you know?
02:34 exio4 VanessaE should learn Haskell for a greater good!
02:34 VanessaE Pilcrow: I've coded in BASIC, 6502 assembly, a bit of Verilog, Bash, Lua, and a touch of javascript.
02:34 VanessaE and C/C++ rarely
02:35 Etzos Learn Lisp before Haskell. It'll make you appreciate Haskell even more. :P
02:35 * VanessaE throws some spare parenthesis at Etzos
02:35 exio4 I am really thinking about going to sleep, too, haven't slept in 20~ hours, and spent over 14 hours at uni \o/
02:35 Gay or, C#!
02:35 VanessaE C#?  fuck no
02:35 Gay True microsoft fanboi
02:35 est31 http://pastie.org/10081603
02:35 Gay use C#
02:35 VanessaE never gonna happen
02:35 exio4 Etzos: Scheme!
02:35 exio4 SICP!
02:35 est31 you can do things like that
02:36 est31 generic graph traversal function
02:36 est31 without much OOP fuss
02:36 Gay but OOP is love
02:36 Gay OOP is life
02:36 exio4 that's actually useful when you play with closures tbh
02:36 exio4 because then you don't need to carry the context around manually :p
02:37 exio4 est31: pretty much anything in the modern OOP land is buzzwords with boilerplate and fancy useless design patterns anyway
02:37 est31 lol you understand me
02:38 exio4 c++ is the new fancy functional language though
02:38 exio4 with its lambdas, generics, :D
02:39 Pilcrow exio4: looking at haskell, the thing I don't like about it is the fact that there's no end/endif/etc. that implies that it relies entirely on indentation to figure out where stuff closes? I don't like that; I think all white space (tabs, spaces, newlines) should be treated the same. that's one of the things I absolutely love about lua, tbh...
02:39 est31 strong typing destroys much
02:39 est31 I hate the off side rule too
02:39 exio4 there's a big difference, though
02:39 exio4 haskell doesn't have what you would call "do two things" in an implicit manner
02:40 exio4 there are no statements at all, too
02:41 est31 its all FUNCTIONS
02:41 exio4 and Haskell's "off side rule" is really really permissive(?)
02:41 exio4 yeah!
02:41 exio4 even "sequencing" IO actions is FUNCTIONS!
02:43 Pilcrow that seems... extremely strange to me
02:43 exio4 Pilcrow: there is no reason to have an explicit `end` at all when all you can have is a single expression in both sides
02:43 exio4 and you must have both sides
02:44 est31 I agree
02:44 exio4 it'd be pretty much boilerplate
02:44 est31 Haskell is one of the few places the off side rule is justified
02:44 exio4 the offside rule in Haskell is _really_ not annoying as you might think, there are things that you would think that don't "get past it" yet they do
02:45 exio4 because all it wants is "just keep things aligned, if you do weird things in the middle, who cares"
02:45 exio4 it is not annoying as Python's, where it wants you to have the code aligned the way Guido wanted you to align it
02:47 exio4 Pilcrow: some example code that abuses a few things just because why not :P
02:47 exio4 http://lpaste.net/7867648859499921408
02:47 exio4 it's really really silly
02:47 exio4 imagine having an explicit end after those guards (which are 'ifs' on steroids, because you can have more than one condition in them, and they also allow you do fancier things
02:48 exio4 and, even if it doesn't look like a static typed language, that code is actually type checked
02:48 Pilcrow I'll say one thing... it's an easy language to read...  :)
02:48 exio4 heh
02:49 Pilcrow at least, from the examples I've seen, it is.
02:49 exio4 it really is when you get used to it, tbh
02:49 exio4 it may look scary, sometimes
02:50 exio4 if you see ((<$>) &&& (<*>) ^. (=<<)) >>= (.)
02:50 exio4 (obviously fake code :P)
02:51 Pilcrow in your example, the "|" looks like it's being used sort of like a "case", as opposed to an "if", if that makes sense...
02:52 exio4 Pilcrow: yes, '|' defines a guard
02:52 exio4 a (normal and typical) guardis just a boolean condition, like an if
02:52 exio4 what makes Haskell really cool is the pattern matching, though
02:52 exio4 (not like it is something Haskell specific, but it is a thing most mainstream languages lack)
02:53 exio4 Pilcrow: you should learn some basic Haskell (spend 2~3 playing with the syntax and the "weird shiny things" you may find it to have)
02:54 Pilcrow just checking, haskell is a compiled language, not an interpreted one, correct?
02:55 exio4 Pilcrow: you can compile it (which is what pretty much we all do for 'real code') but you can interpret it, play with it in a REPL and what not
02:55 exio4 and most workflows don't really compile the code until the "last stages"
02:56 exio4 a typical setup is ghci (the REPL) in a console, and the editor next to it, and after saving, reloading the file in the REPL and checking if it typechecks, etc
02:57 exio4 just so you can see how "weirdly" the code can look and actually pass the "off-side rule", look at http://lpaste.net/2950205326156103680
02:58 exio4 it's some old code I had in my ~, it was a compiler for some toy representation or something, I don't remember the specific details of it
02:59 exio4 a fancy thing, I think most if not all those type signatures are optional
02:59 Pilcrow ^ I see warnings, lol
02:59 exio4 they're considered good style because they help you to know more about the function without having to look there
02:59 exio4 yeah, the linter
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03:00 exio4 that's my newbie code! don't tell anyone!
03:00 Pilcrow :P
03:00 exio4 by the way, look at the if in the line 50
03:01 exio4 either "side" has to have a single _expression_, because everything is an expression in Haskell, too
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03:02 Pilcrow I assume the "||" is an "or"?
03:02 exio4 yes :P
03:02 est31 yes
03:05 Pilcrow haha ok. it seems strange to me that "then" and "else" are typed out as words, while "or" is not...  :P
03:05 exio4 || is function a function
03:05 exio4 uh
03:05 exio4 is just a function
03:05 exio4 it is defined within the language
03:05 exio4 True || _ = True
03:05 exio4 _ || x = x
03:06 exio4 well, make it look nice by padding and what not, too :P
03:06 exio4 you can also use ';'s, too
03:08 Pilcrow well. I may have to experiment with this.  :)
03:08 exio4 http://dpaste.com/2WMVNZZ this is valid Haskell code
03:09 exio4 note, that using { ; } makes it ignore the layout rules (offside rules, spaces, whatever you call it)
03:10 exio4 and, if you thought that'd be fancy, http://dpaste.com/0ER722J take this one!
03:10 exio4 it's also valid Haskell!
03:10 Pilcrow what's the difference between putStr and putStrLn?
03:11 exio4 putStrLn is basically putStr + newline :P
03:11 Pilcrow ah
03:12 exio4 you'll find Haskell to be overly weird, because, remember, the code is 'pure'!
03:12 exio4 there are no variables changing!
03:13 exio4 we _play_ with code like it actually changed anything, but in reality, it's just calling it the wrong name, because you never have data or variables you had before change, it's really nice
03:13 exio4 (I am talking about the code I pasted which uses a function called "modify" :P)
03:14 Pilcrow so... does that mean you can't do a simple n = n + 1?
03:14 exio4 and, Haskell's purity, lazyness and being expression-based, also gives us 'completely safe' things like if X then F Y else F Z == F (if X then Y else Z)
03:15 exio4 Pilcrow: n = n + 1 doesn't make sense!
03:15 exio4 give me a number that is equal to itself plus one, and you'll see if it is possible or not
03:15 exio4 = means equality, not assignment in Haskell
03:17 exio4 (you can _actually_ have real mutable data in Haskell, but it is really annoying and, if doing naively, is worse than just generating "garbage"
03:17 exio4 )
03:17 exio4 GHC's (somewhat the 'de facto' haskell compiler/interpreter) garbage collector is really optimized for extremely short-lived data
03:17 exio4 so you may find that the garbage collector (if you look at stats), "copied and freed a few terabytes of ram"
03:18 exio4 even though your program only used 10~mb of constant memory, and the GC only spent a relatively small time doing stuff
03:20 exio4 well, I haven't slept, and I think I already did enough marketing today
03:20 exio4 good night :P
03:20 Pilcrow good night, exio4. nice talking with you!  :)
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03:23 VanessaE bbl
03:30 Pilcrow BasketBall Lounge?  :P
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03:36 Pilcrow sofar, you still there? is there a way to get melon seeds to begin with, other than /giveme?
03:36 est31 no
03:37 Etzos Doesn't the post say that it doesn't spawn anything into the world yet?
03:37 est31 he has said that mapgen mods should rely on his world
03:37 ProXavi If any of you want I will be doing a recording of MTZ-Basic in a short while
03:37 est31 mod*
03:39 Pilcrow ah, alright. that's fine. I just wondered if I was overlooking something.
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03:52 Pilcrow is minetest.after() interrupted by a server restart? as in, if a mod does minetest.after(60, function() blah end), but the server gets closed and re-opened 30 seconds in, will it continue from 30 and execute the function, or just forget about it?
03:53 sofar Pilcrow: I don't want to implement yet-another-partial-mapgen in this mod
03:53 sofar there are enough mapgens out there, and making them being able to detect presence of the crops mod is trivial
03:53 sofar the other way around is impossible to maintain
03:53 sofar I'd have to account for every mapgen variant
03:56 Pilcrow sofar: that's totally understandable. I just wondered if there was something I missed, that's all.
04:02 Pilcrow why does the irc log make me pink?  http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-04-09
04:22 Etzos Pilcrow: It looks like your name's digest gives a pink result: https://github.com/moritz/ilbot/blob/mas​ter/lib/Ilbot/Frontend/NickColor.pm#L45
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04:24 Pilcrow I don't understand that code, but thanks for the answer anyways, Etzos. it was just idle curiosity, really...  :P
04:25 Etzos Pilcrow: I don't understand it much either. Never learned Perl. But based on comments and references, that's what it appears to be doing.
04:27 Etzos Takes the md5 of the nick, separates it into HSV and then turns that into RGB for display.
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04:35 Pilcrow sweet, I just programmed a nice little bash script that searches lua files to find strings, and lists all the files that contain the string... http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zWL68QEH
04:37 Pilcrow to give an example, if I run it in the root of minetest_game, searching for "soil", it returns the following list: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ExzhmSk0
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04:40 Pilcrow hello Girl123
04:42 Girl123 hey
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04:46 Etzos Pilcrow: Why all the find additions? Why not just use plain grep?
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04:50 kahrl_ yeah, I think  grep -R --include='*.lua'  would do the same thing
04:50 Etzos grep -r -l --include="*.lua" '"@"' .
04:50 Etzos Or -R, if you want to follow symbolic links.
04:54 Pilcrow there was a reason I didn't do that... but can't remember what it was. I think I missed the . at the end, so it just kinda sat there doing nothing, lol.
04:56 kahrl_ on my system it defaults to .
04:56 kahrl_ if you used -r or -R and gave no directory
04:57 Etzos Of course, I believe Lua strings can be either " or ' delimited. So...
04:57 Etzos grep -E "[\"']string to search for[\"']" --include="*.lua" -r -l -I .
04:58 Pilcrow kahrl_: that doesn't work for me. giving it no directory makes it sit there doing nothing, and never exit.
04:59 kahrl_ Pilcrow: ah, that was changed in grep 2.11. http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grep.git/commi​t/?id=faf6ea13b3281a2004f5bfd1487708d1ba50a6c5
05:00 Pilcrow ah, ok. ancient os, ancient grep. mine's 2.9
05:02 Pilcrow but yes, now that I have the directory, that works great. grep -R -l --include="*.lua" "$@" .
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05:15 Pilcrow sweet. even better code. I'd had this script for a *long* time, but recently cleaned it up with the code I just posted. it *used* to be http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7gnNWtEY  ... hooray for bad code!  :P
05:22 Etzos One does not simply become a script-fu master without writing less good code at some point in time. :P
05:27 Pilcrow heh. honestly, I've scripted a lot. I just don't use grep much...  :P
05:30 Etzos To be fair, grep is one of those tools that has just about everything in one. If you don't pour over the man page for it though, you'd never know.
05:33 Etzos *pore over
05:35 Pilcrow ^ I thought "pour over" was right... O_o
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05:36 Etzos Nope. It's "pore over".
05:37 Etzos From an older/lesser known meaning of the word "pore" which meant to meditate or study intently.
05:37 Pilcrow interesting. I thought the expression meant you were figuratively pouring your attention into something, as if it were a liquid.
05:38 Pilcrow *shrugs* ya learn somethin' new every day...  :)
05:57 Pilcrow just for fun: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gthA4dWg
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06:27 Pilcrow I'm out. time to sleep. goodnight, guys~
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07:23 Consortium Hi, anybody here?
07:23 ElectronLibre More than 123 people at the moment.
07:23 Consortium For the future of minetest, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmT​wTCIduEDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit
07:24 Consortium ElectronLibre https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmT​wTCIduEDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit
07:24 * ElectronLibre hates when he is on tty and someone sends a long URL with a lot of characters. Give him a couple minutes to copy it.
07:25 ElectronLibre I have to copy it manually just wait two minutes.
07:25 Consortium Sorry
07:27 Consortium ElectronLibre its free to edit
07:28 ElectronLibre It's not a problem i'm accustomed to that.
07:28 ElectronLibre Yes I figured it out with the "/edit/"
07:29 ElectronLibre A lot of these nodes can be found in mods. For example our redstone is mesecons.
07:30 Consortium When will minetest expand?
07:30 Consortium To let the mods become part of its library?
07:31 ElectronLibre The dyes glass blocks are found in colouredglass (if i remember correctly), the jubebox has its own mod, all redstone things are featured in mesecons/pipeworks, buckets is a mod by default, shears a in plantlife, bow are in throwing mod by echoes91, and about the ender, you actually have a nether mod.
07:31 ElectronLibre Hmm, as far as I know there is an issue about this, let me find the link (however there are always people arguing because they want and the other one who don't want to add mods).
07:33 ElectronLibre https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/432
07:33 Consortium The forklifts are industrial
07:33 ElectronLibre (May I edit the document to include links to mods by the way?)
07:35 Consortium Not yet
07:35 ElectronLibre Ok.
07:35 Consortium It is supposed to compare Minecraft mods with minetest developments
07:36 ElectronLibre In fact about 90% of what is written in it is done, in mods.
07:38 ElectronLibre Highlight my nickname when you finished with the list so that I tell you where to find these nodes and which one have not been created anywhere yet.
07:38 Consortium ElectronLibre: MC has over 1000 mods, i am pretty sure minetest hasen't covered all of them
07:39 ElectronLibre Yes, but from what you've listed about 90% is already modded.
07:39 ElectronLibre Or included by default in MinetestGame.
07:39 Consortium ElectronLibre: so i need you to expand the list
07:40 ElectronLibre The only thing I can do is tell you which mods include what, I'm not good at inventing nodes and I never played MC.
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07:41 Consortium ElectronLibre: check the Minecraft forums and look at the run-down
07:42 ElectronLibre No thanks, I have planned to work on a lot of things today.. However I'm sure you can post this list (when you will have removed the already existing ones) somewhere on the forum and get responses. Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy at the moment because I have to prepare tests to confirm a strange behavior in one of the Lua builtin's functions :/
07:45 ElectronLibre Or maybe someone else here will be available to take a look at the nodes contained in the 10000 mods of MC, but I'm not sure..
08:00 Consortium joined #minetest
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08:04 Consortium Hello?
08:17 DarkNekros joined #minetest
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08:22 Consortium https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmTwTCIdu​EDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit?usp=sharing
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09:04 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Cherish An Antique Day! :-D
09:04 ElectronLibre You make us learn at least one thing every day.
09:05 JamesTait Just a shame it's not something useful. :-P
09:06 ElectronLibre Yes, it's not like you're gonna say things like this while dinning with friends, and they will start saying "Wow, he knows a lot of things!".
09:07 JamesTait Occasionally a useful one pops up, but most of them are just nonsense.
09:08 JamesTait And that's fine with me. It's only a bit of fun.
09:12 Krock Forum mods.. please! The Feature Discussion contains much spam
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09:22 xenkey Plenty spa
09:22 xenkey M
09:22 err404 joined #minetest
09:25 Krock I'm not sure if I should prefer regular spambots or Builder123
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09:31 Consortium JamesTait: hi
09:31 Consortium I am a new comer
09:31 Consortium I like Minecraft, but hate that the Original developer won't make it GPL after "a few years"
09:31 JamesTait Consortium, o/
09:32 Consortium Yo, JamesTait
09:32 Trustable joined #minetest
09:33 JamesTait I have feet in two camps, atm. I don't play very often, but when I do I play Minetest. My boys don't mind playing Minetest, but all their friends play Minecraft, so we set up an MCServer server for them.
09:34 fling joined #minetest
09:35 JamesTait Apparently someone's working on a FOSS Minecraft client as well, so there's still some hope. :)
09:36 Consortium JamesTait: mind if you help? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmT​wTCIduEDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit
09:39 JamesTait Wow, that's quite a list!
09:40 ElectronLibre About all of them exist, in mods.
09:40 JamesTait Some of the things on there are available in mods.
09:40 ElectronLibre Not some, a lot of them.
09:40 * JamesTait high-fives ElectronLibre
09:40 Consortium It need to expand to cover EVERYTHING in Minecraft mods
09:40 * Consortium hi5 JamesTait and ElectronLibre
09:41 ElectronLibre Can it even be stored on a 1Tb hard-drive? (I know there is a big amount of mods in Minecraft)
09:41 Consortium But i gonna need help, and ideas too
09:42 Consortium ElectronLibre: 1TB could contain all modern mods, but adding the mods that didn't keep up? ~4TB
09:42 JamesTait Mind if I share this doc with my boys? They'll have a better idea of what they normally expect on a server.
09:42 Consortium JamesTait: PM me your gmail
09:42 Consortium Do you have gmail?
09:43 JamesTait I do, for better or worse (two, in fact - I also have an "apps" account for work).
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09:47 Krock Why are you talking about mindkraft in a minetest room?
09:49 Consortium Fork their ass into our territory, to make ourselves more favorable to gamers and kids
09:49 Krock Copying/porting is not the best way
09:50 Consortium I know, we need to remake everything, bigger, faster, stronger
09:50 rom1504 more testier
09:51 rom1504 oh that's actually a word
09:51 rom1504 nevermind
09:51 Krock we know what you mean.
09:53 Krock Consortium, you can't bring Nothc to your knees, he left Moo-yang IIRC
09:55 Consortium Krock: Notch promised to Open Source MC, but he sold it instead! His "spirit" is still in Mojang
09:56 Consortium Trying to destroy it with Microsoft... Fat Ass Shall Be Punished
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10:04 Consortium So... anything interesting?
10:09 ThatGraemeGuy hrm
10:09 ThatGraemeGuy minetest more crash-prone lately?
10:17 Vadtec joined #minetest
10:23 Consortium Feeling bored... how many of you heard of GG ?
10:24 Krock Gorilla Glass?
10:25 Krock Yes, it seems to be very strong, just not when the phone falls ont he ground.
10:25 Krock *on the
10:26 Consortium Krock: no, GamerGate
10:28 Consortium Krock ?
10:28 Krock stargate, kongregate, .. uhm no, didn't know yet
10:28 SylvieLorxu Krock: Keep it that way
10:28 SylvieLorxu Trust me
10:28 Krock that's an ant.
10:29 Consortium SylvieLorxu: i am neutral, i am not pro-GG
10:29 Consortium Just keep it that way
10:29 SylvieLorxu I refuse to join the discussion :P
10:29 Krock !g gamergate wikipedia
10:29 MinetestBot Krock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
10:29 Krock no, the ant, please.
10:30 Consortium SylvieLorxu: okay, we will never talk about GG
10:30 * Consortium keeps her mouth shut
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10:32 Consortium SylvieLorxu: so... anything fun?
10:33 SylvieLorxu Sebkha-Chott will be releasing a new album soon, not sure if that counts as fun
10:33 SylvieLorxu https://vimeo.com/123887091
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10:35 Krock http://i.imgur.com/SnUON.jpg
10:48 Consortium Minetest is missing something... right?
10:49 Krock The facepalm feature, yes.
10:51 Consortium Krock why?
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10:52 Krock Would be amazing to use while standing in front of a dirt house
10:52 Krock Press F12 and upload it to the 100 other facepalm screenshots :D
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10:56 rubenwardy Any recommendations for a VPS service or similar?
10:56 Krock For minetest-server or something else?
10:57 rubenwardy For running a webserver and possibly a minetest-server
10:57 CWz rubenwardy: deezl uses http://www.nfoservers.com/orde​r-virtual-dedicated-server.php for hosting his servers
10:58 CWz there is also digital ocean
11:02 Krock rubenwardy, maybe seperate the webserver and minetest-server? Maybe there's a minetester who can run a server more on his machine
11:03 Jordach rubenwardy, DO is yer best bet
11:04 Consortium We need a parkour mod, right?
11:04 Jordach not really
11:04 Consortium Becuase Assasin'd Creed and Mirror's Edge has em
11:04 Jordach sneak elevators work better
11:04 Consortium *Assasin's
11:05 Consortium Jordach: WatchDogs?
11:05 Jordach two Ubishit games and a decent looking tech demo
11:05 CWz minetest and minecraft are incapable of true parkour. what the minecrafters refer to as parkour is what most gamers call "platforming"
11:07 Consortium CWz: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-a​nd-modding/minecraft-mods/1274224-smart-moving
11:08 Krock "*forum.net/forum/*" dat lol.
11:09 Consortium Jordach: See the link?
11:10 Consortium Jordach: Look at this parkour http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-a​nd-modding/minecraft-mods/1274224-smart-moving
11:10 Jordach Consortium, i know what it does
11:10 Jordach but not effectively enough
11:10 Calinou parkour would be done with a C++ client mod
11:10 Calinou it's in theory possible
11:10 Calinou provided you know how Minetest's physics work (hint: they suck)
11:11 Calinou <Consortium> Krock: Notch promised to Open Source MC
11:11 Calinou he didn't; he promised to release it into the public domain once sales have dropped off
11:11 Calinou not only sales haven't dropped off entirely today, Microsoft bought Mojang so that claim is moot
11:11 Consortium >moot
11:11 Calinou rubenwardy, I use PulseHeberg for my server
11:12 Calinou 83 €/year for 4 GB RAM, 4 vCore, 200 GB hybrid HDD storage, 100 Mb/s effective bandwidth
11:12 Consortium Only heretics use the word "Moot"
11:12 Consortium This isn't 4chan
11:12 Calinou JamesTait> Apparently someone's working on a FOSS Minecraft client as well, so there's still some hope. :)
11:12 Consortium This is reddit
11:12 rubenwardy heretics to what?
11:13 Calinou there's no free server to go with it, now that CraftBukkit is dead :P
11:13 Calinou the vanilla server is proprietary, which was why CraftBukkit was always illegal in the first place
11:13 Jordach Consortium, u wot m8
11:13 Jordach >IRC
11:13 Jordach >turns out IRC is le Reddit
11:13 Calinou Consortium, this is reddit! *posts ponies and “Linux games” for karma*
11:13 Consortium Jordach: you... you... 8chan?
11:13 JamesTait Calinou, https://github.com/mc-server/MCServer
11:14 Jordach apparently i earn big karma from /r/blender with each of my renders
11:14 Calinou there are tons of people making alternate servers, but none are really functional or bug-free
11:14 JamesTait It's still got a way to go, but it's being actively developed.
11:14 Calinou anyway, I'll star that repo
11:14 Jordach https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
11:14 Calinou we never know, if we ever see a client
11:14 Calinou [I still bought Minecraft in December 2010…]
11:15 Calinou but haven't played it since January 2014
11:15 Consortium Calinou Jordach you two talk like 8Chan holy shit
11:15 Jordach kek
11:15 Consortium As in 8ch.net
11:15 Jordach jet fuel cant melt dank memes
11:15 Jordach m8
11:16 Consortium <Jordach> jet fuel cant melt dank memes
11:16 Krock I would prefer if the serious talk could continue.
11:16 Consortium It feels like home all over again!
11:16 Consortium Krock: okay
11:17 SylvieLorxu Consortium: Go back to halfchan
11:17 Consortium Lets talk bussiness
11:17 Krock Otherwise everybody will act like in a Kindergarten.
11:17 Consortium SylvieLorxu: What are you? LW
11:17 SylvieLorxu Collaboratively administrate empowered markets via plug-and-play networks. Dynamically procrastinate B2C users after installed base benefits. Dramatically visualize customer directed convergence without revolutionary ROI.
11:17 SylvieLorxu Efficiently unleash cross-media information without cross-media value. Quickly maximize timely deliverables for real-time schemas. Dramatically maintain clicks-and-mortar solutions without functional solutions.
11:17 SylvieLorxu Completely synergize resource sucking relationships via premier niche markets. Professionally cultivate one-to-one customer service with robust ideas. Dynamically innovate resource-leveling customer service for state of the art customer service.
11:17 Krock GOod stuff.
11:18 Jordach [x] rekt [ ] not rekt
11:18 Consortium SylvieLorxu: how do you generate those text?
11:19 Krock One upon a time, rubenwardy wrote a noob generator script which gave a much better output.
11:19 SylvieLorxu Consortium: http://cipsum.com/
11:20 Krock https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/4cb29fedb7952e5a4cdf
11:21 Consortium Krock: Minetest can't play chess! It just can't!
11:21 Krock SylvieLorxu, it always starts with a "*ly"word and ends with a noun.
11:24 Consortium Can we program other things into minetest
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11:29 ThatGraemeGuy http://i.imgur.com/lLo84rw.png o_O
11:29 Krock a tree!
11:29 ThatGraemeGuy haha
11:29 xenkey lol
11:30 Consortium Brainfuck in Minetest?
11:30 ThatGraemeGuy yeah, how bizarre
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11:30 ThatGraemeGuy wtf is that tree doing there
11:30 Krock It spawned there.
11:30 ElectronLibre OH my.
11:30 ElectronLibre I remember these.
11:30 Consortium wtf is that pic???
11:30 ElectronLibre When was this map created/generated?
11:31 Krock The problem of that server is, moretrees is installed and those trees are sometimes too large and cause those buggy blocks
11:31 Krock (AFAIK)
11:31 ElectronLibre It's exactly that Krock.
11:31 ThatGraemeGuy a bajillion years ago, this is VanessaE's survival server, this..... thing..... is floating above a desert
11:31 Krock /deleteblocks here solves the problem.. except the tree, you must remove it manyually
11:32 JZ403 How would I go about setting up a world where people/companies could sponsor it, in exchange for a sign posted at the world's entrance (advertising the company)?
11:32 Krock That's inefficient since there are 70% kids on todays' servers
11:33 JZ403 Man :( I have this great idea but don't have the money to host it.
11:33 Krock Host your own server on some old laptop
11:33 Krock (If that's your target)
11:33 JZ403 Can't. Using the neighbor's connection. Firewalled in.
11:34 Calinou serious companies aren't going to be advertised on game servers
11:34 Consortium fail?
11:34 * Calinou remembers the “Diesel” Quake Live campaigns…
11:34 Calinou “Hello, you seem to use the railgun a lot, you should shave a bit”
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11:35 Krock Wow. good advertisement
11:35 JZ403 I'm wanting to go completely Avatar and have a elements themed world (fire, air, water, earth). Then allow companies to pay to support each group of people (giving them items and whatnot).
11:35 JZ403 *an
11:35 Consortium Call Kotaku already! (Don't actually do it)
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11:39 JZ903 Sorry, got disconnected.
11:39 Consortium K
11:40 Consortium I'm wanting to go completely Avatar and have a elements themed world (fire, air, water, earth). Then allow companies to pay to support each group of people (giving them items and whatnot).
11:41 Consortium But how?
11:44 JZ903 What do you mean Consortium? I'm wanting the spawn area to split off into four paths. . . then each group can make their own world.
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11:46 Consortium JZ903: Imbalance
11:46 Consortium Imagine its Harry Potter
11:46 JZ903 ok?
11:46 Consortium Everybody wants to be griffendore
11:47 Consortium Only assholes join Slytherin
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11:48 JZ903 I had thought of that but I was going to leave Avatar out of it. Just go with the elements. I used Avatar so show where I was going with it.
11:49 Consortium I know, i know
11:49 rubenwardy Avatar!
11:49 rubenwardy Awesome.
11:50 Krock Without VManip operatoins, it might get a bit laggy
11:51 JZ903 Personally, I wanted to be in the water area myself. I'm also going to allow players to go inbetween areas. This way they can "be the avatar" LOL
11:54 Consortium I think we need to develop Minetest so people can play minigames
11:54 Consortium The walls, MineZ and many others are fun because they are pretty much based on other games
11:54 JZ903 That would be kind of cool.
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11:55 Consortium So... that is why need the list
11:55 Consortium More games, more mods, more everything
11:55 Consortium To replace Minecraft as the key to technological education
11:56 JZ903 I wish it would support hyperlinking between worlds.
11:57 Consortium What is hyperlinking?
11:57 JZ903 Go through this door and be in another world.
11:58 JZ903 Like hyperlinking on the web (except in the game world).
11:58 Consortium Oh, that will be awesome!
11:58 Consortium Write that down in the list, please
11:59 JZ903 All the 3D web browsers are getting it. I was surprised that it wasn't included in minetest by default.
11:59 JZ903 What list?
12:00 Consortium JZ903: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmTwTCIdu​EDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit?usp=sharing
12:01 JZ903 WOW
12:03 JZ903 Consortium, I think I'll leave the list to you guys but I don't care to drop in and make suggestions from time to time.
12:06 JZ903 one problem the 3D browsers are having with hyperlinking though is item ownership. Can you take what you own across the web or do you start over with each new place you visit? You'd have to have some sort of cross linking for servers owned by the same person.
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12:14 Consortium CL type-A: servers are from the same franchise, therefore you can bring things from one to the other
12:15 Consortium CL type-B: Owned by the same people but not allowed to carry things over, therefore items are saved in each server
12:18 JZ903 Is it possible to open links inside a browser by clicking things? I know it would be a lot more fun if I could open instructables and community chats by clicking.
12:23 Consortium What do you mean?
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12:28 JZ903 Say I wanted to open this chatroom. . . I would click a sign or something and it would pop open in my default browser.
12:29 JZ903 Or someone wanted to make an in-world tutorial. . . With each step, they'd link to the minetest wiki.
12:29 Krock How about a Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V action?
12:30 rubenwardy The developers don't want such a feature
12:31 rubenwardy Security risk :P
12:31 xenkey Is it?
12:32 rubenwardy They think so
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12:33 JZ903 Maybe include an embedded browser without javascript inside minetest?
12:33 Consortium https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmTwTCIdu​EDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit?usp=sharing
12:34 Krock Consortium, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-04-09 Ctrl + F -> "=sharing"
12:35 Krock Create a forum topic if you want attention
12:36 Consortium Krock wat?
12:38 Consortium What is with the link to  http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-04-09
12:40 Krock I wanted to tell you to create a forum topic or do something else then repeating the same link over and over again ;)
12:40 exio4 hai
12:40 Krock then, than? instead of.
12:40 Krock Hi, exio4.
12:41 exio4 JZ903: I think you don't want minetest, but an online game that runs in your browser
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12:46 Krock Let's port Minetest to javascript!
12:47 JZ903 exio4: nah. I was an avid secondlife user until everyone left it. There are some features which I would like to see in minetest based around those. One of them was linking to external webpages. It has numerous possiblities (one of which is a security problem if Javascript is enabled). Others include: Community chatrooms, documentation, music, ToS agreements, etc. The list goes on but I don't want to flood the chat.
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12:50 exio4 JZ903: ToS agreements? where?
12:50 JZ903 I've heard the phrase, "Minetest is NOT Minecraft" numerous times on this forum. I'm suggesting these things, not b/c I desire to see minetest under another flavor. The basic gist of the game is what I love about it. I'm suggesting these things b/c I think they add valid improvements to the game itself.
12:51 JZ903 ToS agreements (and rules) might be needed by any number of minetest servers for any number of reasons.
12:51 JZ903 *in this chat, sorry not 100% today LOL
12:52 exio4 terms of use agreements is just a fancy term for "don't be a dick"
12:52 Krock ^
12:52 exio4 but I don't really think copy/paste/opening links would be that bad
12:52 exio4 being able to open randomly links without warning, though... that's a no
12:53 JZ903 exio4: pretty much but as legal systems get more and more laws on their books, I think people will find that a ToS agreement might be needed :(. That being said, all the other reasons for external linking are still in play, even if ToS agreements isn't.
12:54 JZ903 Maybe a warning with the entire link displayed before opening it in the browser?
12:54 exio4 I don't know
12:54 exio4 it has to be annoying enough
12:55 JZ903 I don't think copy and paste is bad. It's just extra work. External linking could solve that, especially if you're looking at a sign that has a URL on it.
13:00 Consortium Krock: which category of the forum should i put my stuff in?
13:00 Krock Feature Discussion?
13:02 Consortium K
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13:12 Consortium Krock: https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F​%2Fforum.minetest.net%2Fviewtopic.php%3F​f%3D5%26t%3D11809&amp;sa=D&amp;sntz=1&am​p;usg=AFQjCNF3vMMIp4i1b40kc47wiYQazE2x_Q
13:12 Consortium I did it
13:13 Krock congrats for that google link
13:14 Consortium Shit
13:14 Krock Btw, why not add that tic-tac-toe field? :P
13:14 Krock jk
13:14 Zeno` I hope someone else is going to write all those itemdefs and create the textures hehe
13:15 Zeno` why MongoDB?
13:15 Krock Good question ^
13:15 Consortium What MongoDB?
13:15 Krock LevelDB is a horror to install on windows, I won't imagine MongoDB
13:20 Consortium What is DB for?
13:20 xenkey Date
13:20 xenkey Bade
13:20 xenkey Woops
13:20 xenkey Database
13:20 Consortium I mean SQL is FOSS, right?
13:20 * xenkey facepalms
13:20 xenkey SQL is a language
13:21 xenkey well
13:21 xenkey idk
13:21 xenkey but theres many implementations liek postgresql mysql,
13:21 xenkey etc
13:21 xenkey correct me if im wrong :3
13:23 Consortium SQL is a FOSS programming language, right?
13:24 Consortium Becuase Java is not (at least thats what i think)
13:24 SylvieLorxu It's not so much about the language, it's about the implementation
13:24 SylvieLorxu Java has both a proprietary virtual machine, and a Free one
13:25 SylvieLorxu SQL has a lot of Free database systems that read it, but there are also a few dialects for Microsoft Access and so
13:25 Consortium CLR, JVM, LLVM, Parrot?
13:25 SylvieLorxu As far as I know, the syntax itself isn't really licensed, but the application running/compiling it is
13:27 Zeno` SQL is a standard
13:27 Zeno` not a FOSS language (although there are FOSS implementations)
13:29 Consortium Zeno`: name some FOSS language
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13:34 JZ903 I have added Mongo b/c of the speed of use with multiple servers and services needed for a full-pledged game. It is very good with those and it quite easy to install if you know what you're doing.
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13:36 Calinou Consortium, Rust, Go, Dart, …
13:36 Calinou the reference implementations are free/libre
13:36 Calinou so is the documentation/specifications usually
13:38 Consortium Calinou: Is Red FOSS?
13:38 Calinou what's red?
13:38 Consortium red-lang.com
13:39 JZ903 What is Red?
13:39 Calinou doesn't seem to work
13:39 Calinou every time someone with a PhD sneezes, a new programming language is created
13:40 Calinou :)
13:40 Consortium http://www.red-lang.org/
13:41 Consortium Calinou: This is the shit
13:43 Krock It's open source. It's possible to download it
13:44 Consortium Full Stack + Modular/Extensible-Syntax + CLR + JVM = Perfection
13:50 rom1504 yes but can it store blue ??
13:56 Consortium What pun is this?
13:56 rom1504 a red one
13:56 rom1504 :)))))
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14:05 Krock Zeno`, can you delete posts on the forums?
14:12 Zeno` the forum or github?
14:12 Zeno` on the forums, nope
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14:12 Zeno` oh
14:13 Zeno` Krock, have you compiled minetest since yesterday?
14:13 Zeno` because there have been some changes to freetype detection and neither hmmmm nor I could work out if it would break msvc builds or not
14:14 Zeno` but it was merged. so if it breaks we will need to add a workaround
14:14 Krock Robert_Zenz, not yet
14:14 Krock Zeno`, ^
14:14 Zeno` lol
14:14 Zeno` ok :)
14:15 Krock Zeno`, I'd suggest to look at the IRC log of yesterday. I successfully compiled it
14:15 Krock Commit c758fd73
14:15 * Zeno` looks at the commit log
14:15 Krock s/commit/IRC/
14:16 Zeno` ah ok it's all cool then I guess
14:16 Zeno` d2fc98e was the commit that was in doubt
14:16 Krock Ah.
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14:30 Consortium Krock
14:30 Krock Yeah, what's up?
14:31 xenkey Etzos: hi?
14:31 Consortium Why is the IRC getting quiet?
14:31 Krock Because no-one was talking
14:36 exio4 pretty much
14:38 Consortium Gonna go to sleep... see you tomorrow
14:38 Consortium The docs is always open
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15:00 Wuzzy Where is debug.txt on Windows 8?
15:02 ElectronLibre It is where you launched minetest.exe from.
15:03 ElectronLibre (the root of your Minetest directory or ./bin/ usually)
15:03 Krock The working directory of minetest.exe, yes.
15:05 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:08 Krock C'mon. There's still some old spam laying somewhere in the Minetest forums I thought it would start smell after a half day.
15:12 tim_flatus joined #minetest
15:12 VanessaE *sniffs* where?
15:12 VanessaE :)
15:14 Krock https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=5
15:14 Krock 5 exemplares of spam
15:14 Krock There's also some at Geral Discussion
15:14 tim_flatus Just had a markers crash, something to do with the new nearsorter functionality. I can't see where 'factor' is defined. Sokomine has anyone else seen this or have I made some sleep deprived mistake?
15:15 Krock A mod crash? Is there any error log?
15:15 tim_flatus I just posted here - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi​c.php?f=11&amp;t=8175&amp;p=175682
15:16 tim_flatus Just because I didn't sleep last night and am probably missing a braincell.
15:16 Krock hmm areas.lua:7
15:18 tim_flatus Well, the whole stanza
15:18 Krock The problem is, something defined "factor" to a non-numeric value
15:19 tim_flatus No, the problem seems to be that it isn't defined at all.
15:19 Krock vector.interpolate = function(pos1, pos2, factor)
15:19 Krock https://github.com/Sokomine/mar​kers/blob/master/areas.lua#L116
15:19 Krock It is defined.
15:21 YvesLevier We are about to recieve a municipal "ok" to extend Saint-Camille in minetest to our township.  We got a rendez-vous with township tomorrow.
15:21 YvesLevier Thanks to all :)
15:21 YvesLevier VanessaE: ^
15:21 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:21 Krock Eeks. I hate that table sorting method
15:22 VanessaE cool
15:22 Wuzzy Krock: “working directory of minetest.exe”. Does that mean “%WHERE_MINETEST_IS_INSTALLED%\bin\debug”?
15:23 Wuzzy oops, I mean \bin\debug.txt
15:23 tim_flatus OK, I am missing a braincell then krock as I don't understand how that translates to line 7.
15:24 ElectronLibre It means where you launched it from.
15:24 ElectronLibre Usually it's \bin\
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15:27 tim_flatus Because vector.interpolate only seems to take 2 args rather than the 3 it has beeng given. Doesn't the '0.5' just drop out?
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15:45 MarisD ~tell VanessaE Hi can you change my password in VE Vanilla? Name: VanillaVan Thanks, -Vanilla
15:45 ShadowBot MarisD: O.K.
15:49 tim_flatus ug
15:49 MarisD hi, aflatus.
15:50 MarisD afflatus*
15:50 tim_flatus thi
15:50 * tim_flatus gives up
15:50 * MarisD what tim said
15:51 tim_flatus Do you play on my server?
15:53 tim_flatus missed ok
15:53 Builder123 joined #minetest
15:55 Builder123 Hello, All.
15:58 Xenoth joined #minetest
16:01 Krock Wuzzy, yes, bin\debug.txt
16:02 Krock tim_flatus, interpolate always needs 3 values
16:02 * Krock goes afk
16:02 tim_flatus So it should be vector.interpolate = function(pos1, pos2, factor)
16:02 someguy_irc joined #minetest
16:03 Wuzzy thx
16:06 Hijiri wait, minetest hashes passwords before sending them?
16:07 Hijiri that's what the doc seems to imply
16:09 tim_flatus Thankyou Krock, so I was right in the first place - 'factor' wasn't defined.
16:10 tim_flatus lol
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16:31 Krock !tell tim_flatus The funny thing was, I had the fixed versio in front of me and just didn't get where the fail actually is.
16:31 MinetestBot Krock: I'll pass that on when tim_flatus is around
16:32 Krock Yeah, thanks, MinetestBot!
16:43 Ataron joined #minetest
16:47 Krock Liek a pro: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=175646#p175646
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17:12 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest
17:13 luizrpgluiz hi
17:13 turtleman_ joined #minetest
17:21 Krock hi
17:22 Player_2 joined #minetest
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17:34 Salbei https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3188
17:34 Salbei Anyone use this on his server?
17:48 nicolas_ joined #minetest
17:51 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
18:05 Krock There's a newer version: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9637
18:19 Krock ^ Salbei
18:19 Megaf joined #minetest
18:36 Salbei Krock: thanks
18:54 Megaf joined #minetest
19:19 Krock np
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19:58 Krock Jordach, answer those damn question! :P
19:58 Krock +s
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20:07 Krock https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/​3471/3391551453_32cc937189.jpg
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20:41 Megaf_ Hi
20:42 xenkey hi
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21:14 Etzos xenkey: ping
21:14 xenkey hey there
21:14 Etzos Sorry. I've been super busy these past few days.
21:15 xenkey That's alright, things happen.
21:15 xenkey I'm going to bed soon. Are you free tomorrow?
21:15 Etzos Yep.
21:15 Etzos At least most of the day.
21:15 xenkey I so have some 10 mins (I need them to fix me raging and rm -rfing my web interface thing)
21:16 * xenkey gets mad sometimes ^.^
21:16 Casimir joined #minetest
21:16 Etzos The double-edged sword that is rm -rf. XD
21:16 xenkey Yup
21:16 xenkey Had to rebuild a whole chroot
21:16 xenkey not so fun
21:17 Etzos I can imagine.
21:18 xenkey Think is, my web server needs it
21:18 xenkey So (please don't tell anyone) I mounted the root filesystem inside a chroot
21:18 Etzos Sounds safe.
21:18 xenkey Yup
21:20 xenkey No way too hacky
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22:26 Jordach evryo
22:26 Jordach everything is fine
22:26 * Jordach can't fly a plane with a flight stick
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22:52 Megaf_ Jordach: why not? Perhaps your stick is not suitable for you or your simulator.
22:53 AnotherBrick joined #minetest
22:53 Jordach Megaf_, it's fine
22:53 Jordach i haven't got muscle memory pinned down
22:57 Megaf_ Perhaps. What stick to you have?
22:58 Jordach Saitek 3D Cyborg Gold (sealed unit from first manufacture)
22:59 Megaf_ Jordach: We can't blame the stick then
22:59 Megaf_ You got yourself a good one
23:00 Jordach Megaf_, she's elderly (10+ years old)
23:00 Jordach it has drivers for XP only :D
23:00 Megaf_ It doesnt matter
23:01 Megaf_ btw, have you tested it on linux? You could play FlightGear there
23:02 Jordach ugh
23:03 Jordach i don't like commercial flight sims
23:03 Jordach combat flight sims all the way
23:04 Megaf_ Then IL-2 is a fantastic choice
23:04 Megaf_ Maybe not...
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23:15 Megaf_ 🐧
23:16 Megaf_ I am a beautiful person who is the best way to get the best way to get the best way to get a chance to win the game and the rest of the most important thing to remember to bring it to you
23:17 Megaf_ Lol. Those words were only suggestions from my tablets keyboard
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23:26 Johnsen2 !server CsMr
23:26 MinetestBot Johnsen2: No results
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