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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-09-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:03 EvergreenTree greetings people of #minetest
00:04 Cylus Greetings, EvergreenTree!
00:04 Cylus pitriss: 0.4.10 has indev, though I hear 0.4.11 won't. I don't know what will be done in old maps.
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00:05 pitriss Cylus: 0.4.10-dev is already without indev:) ok maybe someone else will know what happen in this situation
00:07 Cylus pitriss: 0.4.10-dev isn't 0.4.10 though, and you said "upgraded to 0.4.10 where is no indev mg". Upgrading to 0.4.10 is safe, as it still has indev.
00:07 pitriss ok then..:)
00:08 pitriss sorry for confusing you..:)
00:08 Cylus No worries.
00:08 Cylus pitriss: I would take a copy of your indev map and try running it in the dev version to see what happens.
00:09 pitriss yep.. i will try.. thanks :)
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00:33 paramat pitriss, edit 'map_meta.txt' in the world folder to include: 'mg_name = v6'. Mapgen v6 is similar to indev near world centre, although you will get some discontinuities in the terrain
00:33 OldCoder VanessaE, Hi. Present?
00:33 paramat 0.4.10 stable has indev
00:36 OldCoder ?
00:36 OldCoder Is this good?
00:36 VanessaE OldCoder: I am here
00:36 OldCoder VanessaE, do you happen to recall...
00:36 OldCoder about when this year I spoke about writing a script to delete levels underground?
00:36 VanessaE yes
00:36 OldCoder About when was that?
00:36 VanessaE at least somewhat
00:36 VanessaE oh that I don't remember exactly
00:37 VanessaE but that script was, as far as I know, specific to sqlite maps :-
00:37 VanessaE :-/.
00:37 OldCoder Do you recall which world?
00:37 * OldCoder assumes not
00:37 VanessaE nope
00:37 OldCoder That is fine
00:37 OldCoder Do you recall if it was ShadowNinja who helped me?
00:37 VanessaE I think so
00:38 OldCoder Thanks
00:38 OldCoder I'm trying to locate the script
00:38 VanessaE I think I still have my join-two-worlds script here somewhere
00:38 OldCoder Yes, did you mention that at the time?
00:39 OldCoder That may help greps
00:39 VanessaE ah here it is...
00:39 VanessaE pasting
00:39 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/jKy0dnHG
00:40 VanessaE and yeah, I think I mentioned it then
00:41 OldCoder Thanks
00:41 OldCoder VanessaE, what is ZIP download link for plantlife?
00:42 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_modpack --> https://github.com/VanessaE/plan​tlife_modpack/archive/master.zip
00:42 OldCoder ty
00:42 VanessaE but note what components it has, in case you want to disable some stuff
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00:42 OldCoder yes
00:46 Cylus When I try to view that script, I get sent this image:
00:46 Cylus Never mind, the URI is too long.
00:46 paramat pitriss, to replace the huge caves of indev use my 'subterrain' mod, replace floatlands with a mod, and you can add custom mgv6 noise params to minetest.conf to create higher mountains
00:47 Cylus They encoded the image and embedded it in the page. But they're calling it "censor kitty", and saying that it's blocking access to the site.
00:47 VanessaE strange
00:47 VanessaE never heard of such a thing
00:48 OldCoder Refresh my memory. If a world has a _game, should world.mt have load settings or not?
00:48 VanessaE I only linked to a paste of an ordinary Basg script
00:48 VanessaE Bash&
00:48 * OldCoder is tidying up Landrush with pitriss help
00:48 OldCoder load_mod_plants_lib = true
00:48 VanessaE OldCoder: only if you're pointing to extra mods you've installed that are outside of the game
00:49 OldCoder So, I should delete most of world.mt
00:49 OldCoder Got it
00:49 VanessaE or that are installed for the purpose of overriding a mod provided by the game
00:49 OldCoder kkty
00:49 VanessaE I just prefer to put stuff in <minetest>/worlds/<myworld>/worldmods
00:49 OldCoder Fair nuff
00:50 VanessaE e.g.  ~/.minetest/worlds/Dreambuilde​r-testing/worldmids/foomod-yay
00:50 VanessaE worldmods*
00:50 VanessaE that way I don't make to muck about with world.mt
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00:54 twoelk OldCoder: that world you tried to delete some underground nodes from might have been Landrush
01:02 VanessaE bbl
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01:18 shadowzone MT-Deezl> <deezl> we need a portal mod that will link servers together  <-- would that be possible
01:21 Vazon shadowzone: with the current api i do not beleive so
01:22 shadowzone Okay.
01:31 OldCoder twoelk, thank you
01:31 OldCoder But I'm not sure
01:32 twoelk at least you where in the process of transfering that one
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01:35 twoelk OldCoder: this thread might be of interest: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=3&amp;t=10040&amp;p=153065#p153065
01:35 OldCoder R
01:36 twoelk there is a little spreadsheet file I added to that thread
01:36 OldCoder Yes; I mostly wish I had the framework code that actually did the rewrite. This was working.
01:36 OldCoder Looking further.
01:37 OldCoder I don't recall discussing this with Brandon Reese
01:37 OldCoder So it seems unlikely the world was Landrush
01:37 OldCoder It was more likely Vazon and Minerealms
01:37 OldCoder But not sure
01:37 Vazon what???
01:38 OldCoder Vazon, Hi. Do you recall...
01:38 twoelk hm, Minerealms does sound familiar when trying to remember that discussion
01:38 Vazon yes we did it to all worlds at the time
01:38 OldCoder Vazon, did I delete levels below ground for Minerealms or simply mention the possibility?
01:38 OldCoder I only did it to one world
01:38 * OldCoder is trying to remember which
01:38 Vazon well you did the Minerealms i know that
01:38 OldCoder All right, thank you
01:39 Vazon btw i asked you and you never responded and you rename that server?? people keep thinkings its part of my servers and its not anymore
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01:45 twoelk OldCoder: some more discussion here regarding VanessaE's script: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-09-22
01:45 OldCoder R
01:47 OldCoder twoelk, thank you again. I'll find my script or rewrite it. It's been a really odd year. But that has been true of several years now.
01:47 OldCoder I don't usually replace useful bits
01:48 twoelk the odd stuff is what we remember and use for retelling in form of anecdotes
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02:05 OldCoder twoelk, I did this on June 5, 2014, with ShadowNinja's help. I need only the Position to Coord function as opposed to the other way around. It appears that I edited Landrush and not Minerealms. Working through the logs. Thanks again for remarks.
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02:05 luizrpgluiz hi
02:06 OldCoder luizrpgluiz, hello
02:07 luizrpgluiz hi Coder
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02:10 OldCoder joepie91, yoyoa1997
02:11 jojoa1997 wtf
02:11 OldCoder It is an attempt to say hello in a humorous manner
02:11 jojoa1997 oh
02:11 OldCoder And a tab malfunction
02:11 jojoa1997 I was like WHO IS COPYING MY NAME!!!
02:11 OldCoder jojoa1997, yo yoa 1997 *
02:12 OldCoder ^ corrected version
02:12 jojoa1997 I saw that part
02:12 jojoa1997 Hi OldCoder
02:12 jojoa1997 Long time no see
02:12 OldCoder We've crossed paths, simply haven't chatted
02:12 OldCoder Glad you're still with the project
02:12 jojoa1997 yeah
02:13 jojoa1997 Never trully left. I just went to checking the forums once a couple days while gone
02:13 OldCoder All right
02:13 jojoa1997 I just needed relax time and a break
02:13 OldCoder Ofc
02:13 jojoa1997 Its like when I love eating a certain food but get sick of it after a while
02:14 * jojoa1997 cough cough crba meat cough
02:14 jojoa1997 *crab
02:14 OldCoder Mixed feelings about crab?
02:14 jojoa1997 How are things going for you OldCoder?
02:14 OldCoder Keeping busy
02:14 OldCoder A server move has finished
02:14 jojoa1997 Nah, over the summer I had a lot of homemade raman recipes and crab meat was in alot of them
02:14 OldCoder So I'll be running more worlds again
02:14 OldCoder That sounds pretty good
02:15 * OldCoder is eating light presently
02:15 jojoa1997 Thats cool; I got sick after eating teryaki crab meat for lunch since there was nothing else to eat
02:15 OldCoder I've had 2 regular meals in a week
02:15 OldCoder But eating a lot of tomatoes
02:15 jojoa1997 lol
02:15 OldCoder There's a backyard garden
02:15 OldCoder Can't let them go to waste
02:16 OldCoder Anyway, tidying up the worlds and looking for old scripts
02:16 OldCoder The primary server's new location is pretty good. 4 years uptime.
02:16 jojoa1997 Awesome
02:16 OldCoder As far as power and network goes, I'm told.
02:16 OldCoder My server may still go down but it should be less often
02:16 OldCoder And the network switches to gigabit soon
02:17 OldCoder So, we'll bring up the worlds and see how it goes
02:27 H-H-H more worlds yay :)
02:27 OldCoder Indeed
02:28 H-H-H im still deciding if i want to make mine public or just for us geeks on my local lan
02:28 OldCoder Any downside to public?
02:29 H-H-H not really except i would have to find a better machine lol this poor little dual core with 2gb ram runs it ok for a few lan players but with more than a fw it would suffer
02:29 OldCoder Oh, yes
02:29 OldCoder If you build a good world
02:29 OldCoder Let me know and I'll host
02:30 H-H-H abnd i am relatively new to minetest so just trying to get my head around scripting and such although i do have breedable cows and sheep and pigs working now :)
02:30 OldCoder Yes
02:35 H-H-H THING I LIKE MOST IS THAT MINETEST ALSO HAS AN ANDROID PORT :)
02:35 OldCoder Ah
02:35 H-H-H oo sorry for caps
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02:37 Guest_______ Ah, that's pretty cool.
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03:09 OldCoder I think that this is the script that I used to delete everything in a world below a specified depth in node units:
03:09 OldCoder http://minetest.org/dropdeep.txt
03:09 OldCoder VanessaE, diemartin, kahrl, ShadowNinja ^
03:10 OldCoder Would anybody like to say if it looks right?
03:10 diemartin I have no experience with managing block data with SQL, sorry
03:11 OldCoder Never mind that
03:11 OldCoder Just the block calculation. This is basically position to X-Y-Z
03:11 OldCoder As opposed to the other way around, which most people talk about.
03:11 OldCoder $n ends up as Z
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03:11 OldCoder If I can get X and Y also, I'll make a little world editor
03:14 OldCoder Or maybe I've got Y and Z mixed up
03:14 * OldCoder intends to merge worlds
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03:18 Cylus I'll have to play around with that. I'd love to be able to delete specified blocks. In my case though, I want to delete the center the map to make it regenerate cleanly. Thanks for the script, OldCoder!
03:18 OldCoder Cylus, it's a start
03:18 OldCoder This one just deletes blocks based on height or depth
03:19 OldCoder If I can see where X and Y fit in, I can translate or delete any block
03:19 Cylus "Translate"?
03:19 OldCoder translate position; i.e., move
03:19 Cylus AH! Got it. That would be awesome.
03:20 Cylus What language is that, anyway? Bash?
03:20 OldCoder Well, take your time and help me figure out what is what. Here is the reverse direction:
03:20 OldCoder return p[2]*16777216 + p[1]*4096 + p[0]
03:20 OldCoder p[1] appears to be height or depth
03:20 OldCoder Does anybody know if that is "Y" or "Z" ?
03:21 OldCoder If I get this right, the script can take a list of blocks to remove
03:21 OldCoder or a depth
03:21 OldCoder or a direction and distance to move everything
03:22 OldCoder Interesting; I see a reference to p[1] here as "Y". So, "Y" is height or depth?
03:22 Cylus I wish I could help, but I'm unsure of the map format, and I'm not even sure what language that script is in.
03:22 OldCoder I'll take care of the language
03:22 OldCoder And thanks for the remarks, regardless
03:22 OldCoder I'll run this by some of the devs
03:22 Cylus Y should be hight/depth, if it's using the standard coordinates.
03:23 OldCoder Good, it's consistent
03:23 OldCoder p[0] is apparently "X"
03:23 OldCoder p[2] is apparently "Z"
03:23 OldCoder So, what happens to negative values?
03:23 * OldCoder considers
03:24 OldCoder Each part can be 0 to 4095
03:24 Cylus If I recall, there are no negative values in the block numbers. There's an offset, so negative <whatever> in the world is zero in the map file.
03:24 OldCoder To represent negative values, they limit to -2047 to +2048 I think
03:24 OldCoder No, there are negatives
03:24 OldCoder To represent negative values, they limit to -2047 to +2048 I think
03:25 OldCoder and:
03:25 OldCoder if ($n >= 2048) { $n -= 4096; }
03:25 OldCoder So 0 to 2047 represents 0 to 2047
03:25 OldCoder 2048 to 4095 represents -2048 to -1
03:25 OldCoder I think I've got it
03:26 OldCoder Now, these are mapblocks, I assume
03:26 Cylus I see. I wouldn't have guessed that.
03:26 OldCoder So if the maximum mapblock coordinate is 4095...
03:26 OldCoder This means that the maximum, what. "node" coord is 65,520 ?
03:26 OldCoder Does that sound right?
03:26 OldCoder Or approx. this
03:27 OldCoder I think I'm ready to delete specified mapblocks given X,Y,Z
03:27 Cylus THose numbers don't seem to add up. My notes indicate that the world is 3865 blocks across. Unless I missed something ....
03:27 OldCoder mapblocks?
03:28 OldCoder That is too low
03:28 OldCoder It's only 61,840 nodes
03:28 Cylus Yeah, map blocks. I've got 61840 nodes across.
03:28 OldCoder Do others have the same sizes?
03:28 OldCoder Numbers still add up; it's a question of what the maximums are
03:29 OldCoder So, nodes are stored in blocks of 16x16
03:29 Cylus I assume so. Every time I measure the world, I get a negative boundary of -30912 and a positive boundary of 30927.
03:29 OldCoder Can only move or delete them in units of this size
03:29 OldCoder Very well
03:29 OldCoder But I think I've got the encoding scheme more or less right
03:29 Cylus Sweet.
03:30 OldCoder If you'd like to make a little world
03:30 OldCoder With just two buildings separated
03:30 OldCoder I'll try deleting one of the buildings or moving it
03:30 OldCoder Doesn't need to be tonight
03:30 Cylus OH! Have you looked at the file format documentation? I can't understand it myself, but maybe it would help.
03:30 OldCoder Where is it?
03:30 Cylus Retrieving URI ...
03:31 Cylus OldCoder: <https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/doc/mapformat.txt>
03:34 OldCoder R
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03:36 OldCoder Cylus, thank you. This looks similar to what I'd guessed.
03:36 OldCoder I believe the little world editor is possible
03:37 Cylus OldCoder: Sweet. That would be an awesome tool for all sorts of use cases.
03:39 OldCoder Cylus, a task that you can do sometime is make a little world with just a few stored blocks. Two buildings some mapblocks apart.
03:39 OldCoder Then give me the X-Y-Zs of some part of each of the two buildings
03:39 OldCoder Plus the .sqlite file
03:39 OldCoder
03:39 OldCoder I'll try deleting one building and moving the other
03:40 Cylus Okay, I'll do that. I'm looking for something relaxing to do anyway, it's been a stressful day.
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03:59 * OldCoder rests
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04:09 Cylus Unfourtunently, I don't have my in-game map block calculation tool, but I think I managed to avoid having these buildings cross block lines.
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04:17 Cylus OldCoder: <https://temp.cyl.us/paste/map.sqlite>, <https://temp.cyl.us/paste/locations.txt>
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04:34 OldCoder R
04:35 OldCoder Cylus, that is kind I shall try now
04:35 OldCoder Cylus, nice domain BTW
04:35 Cylus OldCoder: Thanks!
04:35 Cylus yOU AS WELL.
04:35 Cylus *You as well.
04:36 OldCoder The coords are node or block units?
04:36 Cylus Node. I'm unsure of the blocks at this time, I lost my block calculation code.
04:37 Cylus I used to be able to throw up block-marking entities on command. It was useful for debugging boundaries.
04:39 Cylus I'll probably rewrite that at some point.
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04:40 OldCoder Hm. How do I log into singleplayer mode as myself?
04:41 OldCoder Cylus, this seems to be a real house
04:42 Cylus OldCoder: You have to launch it from the "server" tab to do that. They are real buildings. Was that not the goal?
04:43 OldCoder It is fine, just curious
04:43 OldCoder If I launch from server tab, I can't play locally; is this correct?
04:43 Cylus It was a new world.
04:43 OldCoder You built these?
04:43 OldCoder Are the coords nodes or mapblocks?
04:43 Cylus Yeah, you can still play it locally. The server tab launces the client in the launched world.
04:44 OldCoder Are the coords nodes or mapblocks?
04:44 Cylus Yeah, I built there, and the coords are in nodes. The cobble/mossycobble building was mapgen though.
04:45 OldCoder So, the first building is 0, 1, -1 in mapblocks?
04:45 OldCoder Or, rather, those coords?
04:45 Cylus That sounds right.
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04:48 OldCoder Cylus, I have a business call but will play with this later
04:48 OldCoder Thank you and feel free to inquire regarding progress on scripts
04:48 OldCoder o/
04:48 Cylus OldCoder: Okay, no rush. Whenever works.
04:49 Cylus You'll probably finish a long while before I have time to return to it. I'm in the middle of forking minetest_game, and I'm detangling default's monolithic mess.
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05:21 Cylus How do servers disallow the use of certain names? Is that a mod or a config setting?
05:21 * OldCoder does not know
05:25 Cylus It appears that "singleplayer" has become a special name. I guess I'm locked out of one of the servers I used to play on then. That name is blocked even in my local worlds though, and I didn't choose to block it.
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05:38 diemartin Cylus, "singleplayer" has special treatment by the core engine; other names may be disallowed by mods (see for example, no_guests mod)
05:39 diemartin you should try contacting the server owner to ask for your account to be renamed
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07:16 OldCoder kaeza, I think that I can make a CLI world editor and finally merge worlds
07:16 OldCoder Zzz
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07:51 OldCoder fishyWET, Moin
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07:52 fishyWET Hi OldCoder
07:53 OldCoder fishyWET, your world is now on 0.4.10
07:53 fishyWET yeah i noticed it, thanks
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09:22 friti To whomever it may concern: Sometimes when i start up MT 0.4.10-110-g5ca5630, i get the following error in my consiole: *** Error in `./minetest': double free or corruption (top): 0x00007f0348000b80 ***
09:22 friti So far, each time when i try to start it again after recieving that error, it *does* run. This has happened a total of three times now.
09:22 friti Again, it is not something i worry about, just thought that someone (who?) needed a heds up about this.
09:26 SylvieLorxu https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues is probably the best way to put it, with as much description and logs and useful info (like your OS) as you can
09:26 SylvieLorxu s/way/place/
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09:44 Megaf Hi
09:44 Megaf jp: This is what happening on my server
09:44 Megaf 06:39:01: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=16800 statically but block (0,0,-6) already contains 128 objects. Forcing delete.
09:44 Megaf 06:39:03: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=16802 statically but block (0,0,-6) already contains 128 objects. Forcing delete.
09:44 jp Megaf: great lag on your server, I left it
09:44 Megaf not a mods fault, but a bug in minetest
09:45 Megaf jp: you didnt disconnect, the server disconected you
09:45 Megaf 06:39:03: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=812 disconnecting peer!
09:45 Megaf and me
09:45 Megaf 06:39:41: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=808 disconnecting peer!
09:51 witheld I just built minetest with cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 -DUSE_REDIS=1
09:52 witheld and I still can't use redis
09:52 witheld unknown map backend
09:52 witheld That's the stable release of 4.10
09:52 kahrl witheld: the flag is called ENABLE_REDIS
09:54 witheld so -DENABLE_REDIS=1
09:54 witheld -DENABLE_REDIS=1
09:54 witheld er
09:54 witheld Yeah
09:54 kahrl yes
10:04 witheld And now my game that worked before is giving witheld@linknode:~/.minetest/games$ minetestserver ~/world/
10:04 witheld er
10:05 witheld 06:04:10: ERROR[main]: Subgame [] could not be found.
10:12 witheld oh okay
10:12 witheld kahrl: do you know what flag to use to get it to use ~/.minetest
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10:30 witheld Oh that's fun, even with dummy having performance problems with some of these mods, despite rather low CPU usage...
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10:44 kahrl witheld: -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0
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11:03 erlehmann how do i check if node is air in lua?
11:04 erlehmann i want to check if a node is airlike
11:04 erlehmann for a glider mod
11:08 erlehmann found it https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack/c​ommit/5c442b77b3e5d2a330e4bf88aa3a04f0717436e1
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11:09 john_minetest hi
11:10 Megaf erlehmann:
11:10 Megaf [12:09:40] <Megaf> This channel is for things related to minetest development and improving
11:10 Megaf [12:10:23] <Megaf> #Minetest is for questions and chat related to Minetest, gameplay stuff and stuff
11:10 Megaf That is about #Minetest-Dev
11:11 erlehmann Megaf i thought minetest development would also mean mods
11:11 Megaf mods are more related to gameplay and client side I think
11:11 Megaf the -dev means minetest engine development
11:12 Megaf Here, #Minetest is the right place to talk about mods, lots of moders here
11:12 jin_xi there is also #minetest-mods, but its mostly dead
11:13 witheld Also minetest is all about mods, completely, so it kind of makes more sense for it to be in the main channel
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11:39 ShadowNinja OldCoder: That script does not look correct.  It seems to try to compute only the X value, and the division is done first instead of last.
11:40 proller joined #minetest
11:40 ShadowNinja (And there's only an update statement, you need select and delete statements)
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11:49 ShadowNinja OldCoder: Here's an example implementation in Python-like format (should translate a lot easier that C): http://sprunge.us/gQID  It may or may not work (make backups).
11:50 ShadowNinja Er, s/$([xyz])/\1/
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11:58 jojoa1997 Hi
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12:53 da3m0n22 hi all, osx homebrew anyone? https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/issues/32594
12:54 da3m0n22 i'm trying to push minetest through, however i have problems with build settings (paths relative/absolute to binary, CUSTOM_SHAREDIR)
12:55 da3m0n22 Also assertion failure after compilation succeeds, see here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1687
12:56 da3m0n22 i'm willing to help you guys, if anybody wants me to test some solutions or provide further info, i'm here 24/7 (with occasional communication lag)
12:58 da3m0n22 also would be nice to have ssl enabled over minetest.net domain (see https://www.minetest.net/ )
13:05 john_minetest ssl costs.
13:06 john_minetest And the minetest project doesn't generate any money. Of course there are free ssl certificates, but those are kinda weird.
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13:10 da3m0n22 crowdfund?
13:10 john_minetest I don't really see how ssl would improve minetest.
13:11 da3m0n22 it wont, maybe a bit in google search results, but i meant crowdfund for the whole project
13:13 john_minetest Hmmm, and what should be done with the money?
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13:18 da3m0n22 keep the developers interest, in long term there should be some motivation for them imho
13:19 da3m0n22 also, you could probably speed up the development and/or setup and keep running whole enviornment (community stuff, official servers, ...)
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13:44 john_minetest We got more than enough servers.
13:44 john_minetest About 50% of the servers got no people on them.
13:44 john_minetest Or only 1-2.
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13:48 john_minetest 27 got no players, 10 got only 1 player and 14 have more than one player.
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14:00 * sfan5 meows at john_minetest
14:03 * shadowzone hands sfan5 some catnip
14:03 * sfan5 cats
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14:06 * john_minetest gives sfan5 a bowl of milk
14:07 * sfan5 meows at john_minetest
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15:09 Krock o/ Myself.
15:12 * sfan5 meows
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15:22 PenguinDad \o itself
15:23 PenguinDad :P
15:24 Krock I always look on the bright side of life.
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15:24 PenguinDad Krock: don't forget to wear pink sunglasses while doing so :p
15:25 sfan5 !doge
15:25 MinetestBot http://is.gd/zgopNT
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15:30 Krock :3
15:31 PenguinDad !doge
15:31 MinetestBot http://is.gd/zgopNT
15:31 PenguinDad :(
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15:31 Krock http://i.imgur.com/z2yz6SA.jpg
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15:34 PenguinDad Krock: that looks quite nice
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15:38 Krock Yeah. This laptop seems to make better screenshots than my PC at home
15:40 * sfan5 meows at Krock
15:40 * Krock gives sfan5 a <°((((-<
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16:39 witheld Are then any mods for a handheld lantern?
16:41 zlsa there's walking_light
16:41 zlsa when you hold a torch it lights up the area around you
16:41 witheld that'll do, thanks
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16:49 Calinou walking_light is slow, witheld
16:49 witheld A bit yeah
16:49 Calinou it slows down whenever you move, and causes short freezes
16:49 Calinou Freeminer (a fork of Minetest) has true dynamic wield light
16:49 witheld no forks
16:49 Calinou but Freeminer can't connect to Minetest servers
16:49 proller wat??
16:49 proller it can
16:49 Calinou ah
16:49 Calinou but then, Freeminer is quite experimental
16:50 proller and mt clients can connect to fm
16:50 Calinou not so stable, may be slower
16:50 Calinou in my experience it stutters more
16:50 proller and maybe faster ;)
16:50 witheld Does Freeminer try to get things merged?
16:50 proller server - must be much faster, client - may be bit slower
16:51 witheld >Unlike Minetest it aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism.
16:51 witheld They don't mention what they're talking about
16:51 witheld what are they talking about
16:51 PenguinDad proller: you're wrong
16:51 proller where?
16:51 Calinou <witheld> Does Freeminer try to get things merged
16:51 Calinou no, incompatible license
16:52 witheld it's a fork, how could that be?
16:52 Calinou although stuff done before license change (coloured chat, player list) can be merged
16:52 Calinou there's a pull request for coloured chat
16:52 Calinou witheld, the license has been changed from LGPL to GPL
16:52 Calinou this is possible as the GPL is compatible with the LGPL…
16:52 proller freeminer was forked after half year of ignoring merge pulls
16:53 Calinou either become a core dev, or add a comment to tell them to merge
16:53 Calinou if you don't perform any tracking of your own issues, you won't go far
16:53 Jordach hah
16:54 * Jordach gives bonus points to his IT Course teachers
16:54 Jordach no machines there have Java 7/8 installed whatsoever
16:54 * Jordach decides to work around the issues of not having Java readily availible
16:55 rubenwardy Hi all!
16:56 Calinou there are a lot of software which requires Java 7 by now
16:56 witheld Man I really wish the client would remember my password
16:56 Calinou like Terasology
16:56 Calinou witheld, you could use software to use a key binding that types the password for you
16:56 Calinou like xdotool on GNU/Linux
16:56 Calinou not very secure and risky though
16:56 witheld I can hack my way through anything, doesn't mean I want to
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16:58 witheld Though, it's a silly little lego game, as long as my computers don't get compromised I'm not very worried about security!
16:58 Calinou what if you press the key binding outside of Minetest?
16:58 Calinou you may end up leaking it on IRC
16:59 witheld I meant more like saved plaintext passwords in general
16:59 Calinou that would imply saving it in plaintext too somewhere
16:59 witheld wouldn't care if my minetest password for a random dude's server was on disk
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17:01 john_minetest Hexᒡᓴᑦ ᕈᒡᒃᔅ :D
17:02 PenguinDad john_minetest: omg unicode
17:04 Calinou 񦙦
17:05 witheld Unicode  is  fun
17:05 PenguinDad ,00Oĸay
17:05 witheld that's irc codes you pleb
17:06 PenguinDad witheld: I can do rainbowcodes :P
17:07 Jordach tl;dr made a batch file to launch MC at my course during free time (because no java)
17:07 proller witheld, saving passwords already in freeminer ;)
17:07 Jordach pls nerf
17:08 Jordach TIL batch auto-concatenates
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17:10 Calinou Jordach, how?
17:10 Jordach "%~d0%\Java\bin\javaw.exe"
17:10 Jordach ^ grabs the current drive letter the .bar is ran from and inserts it into the string as you'd see it from explorer
17:14 rubenwardy Stephan Fry is following a guy that tweeted about Minetest.
17:15 Hobodium And I'm only a couple degrees removed from Kevin Bacon!
17:16 Calinou rubenwardy, “shut up and mine my money!”
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17:17 deltasquared hello?
17:18 Hobodium Howdy
17:18 deltasquared ah.
17:18 Calinou hi
17:18 deltasquared I was wondering whether I was setting this right.
17:18 deltasquared Calinou? you're one of the developers I see on the forums IIRC
17:19 twoelk Jordach: I used some earlier version along these lines http://portableapps.com/node/37983 together with a portable java included on a portable device plus all my worlds. Plug in and play MC anywhere without leaving much of a trace and not needing any java installed on the host
17:19 twoelk actually my minetest is also all on a portable device
17:19 deltasquared Wasn't there a portable app (development version) which automagically sets up a minecraft instance to use the portable JVM?
17:19 jp Calinou is a mod, not dev
17:19 deltasquared I can't remember where it was but I used to use it
17:20 deltasquared I apologise
17:20 deltasquared I get names confused
17:20 twoelk didn't I say that?
17:20 deltasquared uh, one moment...
17:20 deltasquared whoops
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17:21 deltasquared sorry, I'm not completely awake right now (thanks uni -.-)
17:21 deltasquared So anyway
17:22 deltasquared there was something I wanted to ask
17:22 deltasquared but
17:22 deltasquared I'm not sure if it belongs here or on #minetest-dev
17:22 deltasquared it was related to node boxes
17:22 twoelk the portableapps mc version was also very usefull for doing parallel stuff
17:23 deltasquared but I'm talking from the perspective of someone who actually doesn't write mods, was just interesting
17:23 jp ask your question
17:23 deltasquared ok...
17:23 deltasquared is it possible to dynamically set a node box dependant on, say, node metadata?
17:23 twoelk deltasquared: ask and endure whatever the reaction is
17:24 deltasquared the reason I ask, is there was a minecraft "microblocks" mod which allowed a 8x8 miniblock area within a normal one
17:24 deltasquared I was wondering if MT's api (whether minetest_game lua or core c++) allowed this
17:25 Jordach deltasquared, no, octrees aren't yet availible
17:25 rubenwardy I did see a mod like this
17:25 deltasquared octrees?
17:25 deltasquared could you elaborate please?
17:26 deltasquared possibly ELI5, again not really done any mods before
17:26 Jordach octrees allow storing smaller things in a larger space (such as static sized arrays that the map uses)
17:26 deltasquared oh I see
17:26 Calinou “yet”
17:26 deltasquared so it's sorta like a mini chunk inside the bigger one?
17:26 Calinou probably will never be
17:26 deltasquared I'm stabbing in the dark here
17:27 Calinou deltasquared, http://sauerbraten.org/docs/editing.html
17:27 twoelk aw -not yet- sounded so promissing
17:27 Calinou “Editing isn't like editing in any other game/engine; it is done within the program itself, and the structure of the map is comprised of octrees. Octree may sound confusing but it's actually a pretty simple idea. Imagine a cube you can do two things to: push the corners at any angle inwards, or split the cube into 8 smaller cubes (4 cubes in the top half, 4 cubes in the bottom half) which you can do the same things to. That's all there is to it
17:27 Calinou ! Below is an example cube where it is split and one cube is removed, and then again for a smaller cube. ”
17:27 deltasquared lemme look at that link, one moment
17:28 Jordach https://cdn.mediacru.sh/0gMCKV0g95cp.png
17:29 deltasquared argh, my middle-click copy doesn't appear to work for stuff running in tmux
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17:29 Calinou it's always randomly broken for me
17:29 Calinou I never use it
17:29 deltasquared I use xterm, there isn't any other way to copy AFAIK
17:29 deltasquared then again
17:29 Jordach screen > tmux
17:30 deltasquared I could use tmux's buffer copy to another shell then pipe that into xsel
17:30 deltasquared I'll play around with it some other time, I've got the link up now
17:30 PenguinDad !c 'screen' > 'tmux'
17:30 MinetestBot False
17:30 PenguinDad :D
17:30 deltasquared the concept looks interesting, I have to say
17:30 deltasquared also, anything GNU related have awful build systems
17:30 rubberduck tomorrow i will upload my first mod :-), it makes bobblocks craftable again and adds usage of gold and other things that are used in few cases only (gems, mithril...)
17:31 deltasquared these octrees look interesting
17:31 Calinou <deltasquared> also, anything GNU related have awful build systems
17:31 Calinou http://images.wikia.com/mlpfanart/images​/4/41/Rainbow_Dash_haters_gonna_hate.gif
17:32 deltasquared they ring similar to a though experiment I had once about optimising the storage of a large region of nodes of the same material
17:32 rubberduck and i add colered mese blocks later
17:33 deltasquared Rubberduck: do you have a forum topic yet? or a screenshot at all?
17:34 deltasquared One sec, I need to fix something
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17:34 rubberduck no, not yet, the mod is not released yet, but i tested it local on my computer and it works
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17:35 deltasquared It sounds interesting in any case
17:35 deltasquared ah, that works.
17:36 deltasquared [B
17:36 deltasquared uses for gold sound interesting, could you elaborate?
17:36 deltasquared any tools or such?
17:36 deltasquared gold is otherwise largely useless
17:37 PenguinDad gold tools are quite unrealistic
17:37 deltasquared eh, I suppose. but it might be the case that gold is used as a crafting recipe, even if it's not mostly made of that material (like swords or picks)
17:38 deltasquared it'd be funny if there were though, even if just as a joke
17:38 Hobodium Does realism matter in a world made of cubes that can fit in your pocket and are freely placeable?
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17:39 deltasquared I don't know about fit in your pocket unless you're referring to the carrying worlds around on external storage thing.
17:39 rubberduck not gold tools, but other things with gold: for example glass table with golden border, marble pillar with surrounded gold "wire" or a mithril bordered gold-block
17:40 deltasquared so, just decor still?
17:40 Hobodium I mean you can carry enough cubes to build a house in your inventory
17:40 deltasquared ah, right :P
17:40 deltasquared there was a video made by a certain MC player about the heaviest item in the game
17:41 deltasquared apparently nesting chests full of golden apples
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17:41 witheld Man...the one sprint plugin really sucks
17:42 deltasquared plugin? you don't mean mod?
17:42 witheld er
17:42 witheld mod
17:42 witheld I'm a recent defector from bukkit, shush
17:42 * Jordach pets witheld]
17:42 PenguinDad Buck it! :P
17:43 deltasquared I've tried the sprint mod, it could do with a little polishing wrt double forward key detection
17:43 Jordach btw, if anyone asks, yes, animated chests are possible
17:43 deltasquared I've seen that
17:43 rubberduck i used these glass tables from homedecor and added a version with gold-border, i also added various blocks with a golden border (diamond block, gem blocks from glooptest, and more)
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17:43 deltasquared the top half is an entity, yes?
17:43 Jordach yup
17:43 witheld deltasquared: it does have double forward key detection...how are you using it?
17:43 deltasquared it *does*, it's just not that good
17:44 deltasquared requires a couple of attempts sometimes
17:44 witheld Does it have anything else?
17:44 deltasquared any other what?
17:44 witheld Some key I can press and hold to sprint because yeah this sucks
17:44 deltasquared one moment
17:44 Jordach this
17:48 rubberduck is there a good free tool where i can create good color variations for one block using the color palette from unified dyes (easy possible with gimp?), i tried it with gimp but it takes time to adjust the color
17:49 deltasquared I didn't know that the sprint mod had a thing with a separate key to hold down for sprinting. I've only ever encounted the mod on a server, never seen the mod topic
17:49 deltasquared I wonder if that's possible using imagemagick on the command line and a quick shell script?
17:49 Jordach rubberduck, VanessaE has a Ruby script somewhere (or was it Bash)
17:50 deltasquared I think it was bash
17:50 deltasquared for one of his mods I think
17:50 deltasquared if you edited the base texture you could re-run the script to regen the textures
17:50 deltasquared IIRC it was unified_dyes
17:51 rubberduck ok, i want to create color modifications of the mese block, usage as decoration...
17:51 witheld deltasquared: I don't think it does...
17:51 deltasquared no? damn
17:51 witheld but it looks simple enough to add it
17:51 witheld I just don't know lua
17:52 witheld or the API
17:52 blaise hrmm
17:52 witheld It's less then a page of code
17:52 blaise Jordach: do yourun a server?
17:52 deltasquared you have the script?
17:52 Jordach blaise, no
17:52 witheld deltasquared: https://github.com/GunshipPenguin/sprint
17:52 blaise Jordach: I'm wanting to implement some kind of currency to establish economy on my server
17:53 blaise Jordach: would you have any recommendations?
17:53 Jordach blaise, my original idea for BFD was to base a currency from gold and copper ingots
17:53 Calinou there are many money mods around
17:53 deltasquared witheld: no, I thought you were referring to the script that VanessaE uses for coloured textures
17:53 Calinou some are physical, some are non-physical
17:53 Calinou physical = an item is involved in the process for currency
17:54 deltasquared real-world transactions? don't say that in earshot of the MC devs :P
17:55 deltasquared does anyone here use lua mapgens in MT on a regular basis?
17:55 blaise I would like something that has items
17:55 deltasquared it was never fast enough terrain gen for me
17:55 john_minetest blaise: Why aren't you using Minegelds?
17:55 blaise what mod was the one where you could melt the coins back into gold?
17:55 Calinou deltasquared, no, not real world money
17:55 Calinou I mean there is an item used
17:55 blaise john_minetest: fiat currency has no future
17:55 Calinou unlike some other mods where money is not an item
17:56 Calinou but just visible using a command like /money
17:56 deltasquared oh I see
17:56 Calinou I prefer mods that aren't physical and keep it simple
17:56 deltasquared KISS is always best
17:56 Calinou /money to see balance, /money pay user amount to give an amount of money
17:56 Hobodium But if it isn't physical, then you can't get robbed. Where is the fun in that?
17:56 deltasquared I have to partly agree with that
17:56 Calinou depends if PvP or not
17:57 Calinou you could add an handler for removing money on death anyway
17:57 witheld blaise: fiat currency has no future...what?
17:57 khonkhortisan I like physics simulators, where you can do things the game designers didn't imagine - such as welding a hammer to a table, and wielding the whole table to hammer a nail.
17:57 witheld You're saying money, as in the kind we've been using for a very long time, has no future?
17:57 blaise witheld: http://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/
17:57 deltasquared khonkhortisan: I've yet to find a decent libre physics simulator
17:58 blaise khonkhortisan: If I was a better coder, I would implement the periodic table into minetest
17:58 khonkhortisan fiat is doomed to fail, as its governments inflate the supply. When one fiat dies,  we just switch to another.
17:58 Hobodium I don't really think losing money on death really simulates it very well either. Then it makes adventuring harder since you can't store it "safely"
17:58 witheld blaise: that's nice and all, but what advanced civilization hasn't used it?
17:58 khonkhortisan *inflates
17:58 blaise so people could really get down to the nitty gritty
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17:58 witheld Have you considered that the cycle is required to prevent economic stagnation?
17:58 blaise witheld: most, actually..
17:58 deltasquared don't drop sodium underwater, blaise :P
17:58 witheld I don't think so....
17:58 deltasquared that'd be funny
17:59 witheld Let's use plumbing as the bar for advanced
17:59 blaise witheld: but our impression of advanced civilization are probably different
17:59 witheld What civilization had plumbing and used gold or whatever
17:59 Calinou using gold for coins seems silly to me
17:59 Hobodium If you have an actual item, then you can either carry it with you on the danger of losing it on death, or store it so the danger is then losing it to anybody who knows the location, but still has a potential to be safe.
17:59 blaise ancient greece
17:59 Calinou gold supplies aren't infinite
17:59 Calinou it's like diamonds and gold for jewelry…
17:59 witheld nothing is infinite
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18:00 blaise that's the whole point of using gold
18:00 blaise if it were infinite then the money is worthless
18:00 blaise kind of like USD
18:00 deltasquared witheld: except perhaps certain stupidity when it comes to tech support?
18:00 Calinou but in 2014, 90 % of money isn't physical
18:00 Calinou it's scriptural
18:00 Calinou we use paper or credit cards, which can be made easily
18:01 blaise it's not gold or oil backed, so when people don't wanna take it as payment anymore (because the CIA just keeps printing more when they need it) they get killed.
18:01 Hobodium But the value of gold is as arbitrary as fiat currency. And attaching the value of currency to a physical product does not allow fiscal control of inflation and deflation, which has directly led to several major crashes and runs on banks.
18:01 witheld and greece used silver coins but it was fiat
18:01 Calinou the way gold prices are set has changed
18:01 Calinou now it's based on offer and demand
18:01 witheld It wasn't worth the silver
18:01 witheld It was worth the drachma
18:01 blaise if it's silver then it's not fiat
18:02 blaise we use PAPER
18:02 witheld blaise: it wasn't worth the silver
18:02 blaise it's WORTHLESS
18:02 witheld it was illegal to melt it down
18:02 witheld It was owned by the state
18:02 blaise atleast I can melt silver down and do something with it
18:02 blaise paper burns.
18:02 blaise then what
18:02 blaise you got nothing.
18:02 Hobodium What can you do with silver though?
18:02 Calinou by paper, I meant a check
18:02 Calinou a check is made of that, mostly
18:02 witheld The point is, it was a fiat currency and used as a fiat currency
18:02 Hobodium There is no real value to silver and gold for the average person
18:02 Hobodium They are rocks
18:03 blaise silver was and still is highly valued due to its mineral properties..
18:03 witheld there's no value to anything, capitalism's success depends on keeping as much money moving around as much as possible
18:03 Calinou and its presence in More Ores, blaise
18:03 Calinou :P
18:03 Hobodium They have value to particular people who can actually use them. But you, do you have a use for silver?
18:03 deltasquared not really.
18:03 khonkhortisan As a rich person, I want to make lots of money, and spend it all to feel rich.
18:04 blaise people ate and still eat from silverware becuase the germs don't have good chances of survival on the surface of the utensils
18:04 drworman #Minetest - the place for educational conversation when you're bored in class.
18:04 witheld If you get deflation, you get something like the great depression because people start saving. Gotta keep the money moving around for capitalism to work
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18:04 drworman Thanks guys, this is the shit I live for
18:04 witheld So consider that in all your economic theories: you just want to keep the money moving
18:04 blaise Calinou: there's silver in moreores?
18:04 deltasquared drwoman: can't tell if serious or sarcastic
18:04 Hobodium blaise, does that make silver worth the actual "price" of silver? Because I would never spend that much on silverware, germ rpeventing or not
18:04 drworman It's serious, sorry
18:04 deltasquared heh, ok
18:04 deltasquared wait, you're actually in class? :P
18:05 drworman Um, sort of?
18:05 blaise Hobodium: how much are you talking?
18:05 Calinou blaise, yes
18:05 witheld Hobodium: no, you have antibacterial soap and modern surfaces that don't have pores
18:05 Hobodium More importantly, I don't have the skills or tools to shape silver. And I doubt you or most people here do either.
18:05 witheld so it's not really important
18:05 drworman Attending online, mandatory video conference is minimized.  I'm at home playing with my daughter and lurking here while she eats lunch and I peer into my webcam with interest
18:06 deltasquared err, I can't help but think I helped start this argument by talking about uses for gold in MT
18:06 witheld is anyone even arguing about anything???
18:06 witheld It's just random rambling
18:06 Hobodium witheld, my point is that pegging money to a mineral is as arbitrary as fiat money. The minerals have value based not on what they are or what they are used for.
18:06 witheld with some micro-arguments
18:06 drworman No, but this discussion is actually fascinating
18:06 khonkhortisan There's the price of silver when used as currency, and the price when used to make something. There's the price of a graphics card when it's used to play games, and a higher price when used to mine cryptocurrency.
18:06 deltasquared which argument? there appears to be several going on
18:07 khonkhortisan that's what's so great about irc
18:07 khonkhortisan we can argue 4 views, each only partially conflict with half of the other views
18:07 witheld Hobodium: well, it is arbitrary, it's all arbitrary, but fiat currency and avoid deflation which at least gives you a good few hundred years of ecnomic success
18:07 witheld The money moves around, progress gets made
18:07 deltasquared I wouldm't know, it's been years since I last touched IRC
18:07 Hobodium witheld, I'm agreeing with you. :)
18:08 witheld avoids*
18:08 khonkhortisan you can also talk out of order - A: are you going to the store? B: Do you have a car? A: Yes. B: No.
18:08 blaise so everyone thinks I should run minegeild?
18:08 Hobodium Fiat currency allows better fiscal control which gives us some ability to prevent economic disasters which were historically very common
18:08 khonkhortisan you wouldn't get away with that with speech
18:08 blaise or what ever that's called?
18:08 deltasquared khonkhortisan: We have RTT as an excuse :P
18:09 blaise Hobodium: some disasters shouldn't be prevented..
18:09 deltasquared that's a tad dark.
18:09 blaise doesn't make it any less true
18:09 blaise look at General Moters
18:09 khonkhortisan Yet this is why we have free speech, to let our dark ideas live or die on their own power
18:09 Hobodium Generally, I'm going to choose the option the involves less people dying/starving/suffering. So no, I don't agree.
18:10 deltasquared I hope you're not expected one? apart from economical ones ofc
18:10 khonkhortisan Maybe there are two governments, which both have the same economic disaster, and one tries to prevent it. Who knows which one will survive?
18:10 blaise (fed)lets give them a ton of money, since they fricken can't stop spending like mad fiends
18:11 khonkhortisan The strange thing is, people have to live within their means (to stay alive), but governments don't, because they can be replaced.
18:11 deltasquared khonkhortisan: it's hard to be brave with speaking freely when you know you're being watched. (NB: GCHQ, not NSA)
18:11 blaise people are still dying, starving, and suffering.. they didn't prevent anything
18:11 khonkhortisan eh.
18:11 blaise they're prolonging it
18:12 Hobodium How?
18:12 blaise how is it happening?
18:12 deltasquared I'm just gonna hop on ayntest.net, this is getting kinda depressing :/
18:12 khonkhortisan that "doughnut" sure looks like a target
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18:12 Hobodium How is dying, starving, and suffering prolonged by avoiding multiple economic crashes and bank runs?
18:13 blaise becuase the system isn't working..
18:13 blaise it crashed a long time ago
18:13 _Esteban Another spammer, its like third this week! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=3&amp;t=10196&amp;p=155359#p155359
18:13 Hobodium Right. So you don't have any actual example
18:13 khonkhortisan fractional reserve banking is what causes bank runs
18:13 khonkhortisan they give out more than they have
18:13 blaise they just keep printing more money in homes that everything will be okay
18:14 blaise but this has gotten way out of hand
18:14 blaise and is rather off topic
18:14 * khonkhortisan prints more topic slips
18:14 blaise Hobodium: go walk through the streets of any major city in any country
18:14 Hobodium Fractional reserve banking is required for our system of loans. And it is stable as long as enough money exists for daily transactions. What sparks bank runs is generally fluctuations of inflation and deflation.
18:15 blaise meh
18:15 blaise I don't think "credit" or "loans" should exist..
18:15 Hobodium blaise: I have lived in Seattle long enough. I was quite happy despite being horribly poor. I'm not saying everybody is happy and shiny, but I'm glad I don't need to worry about my meager savings suddenly dissapearing and being able to still afford to eat.
18:15 JeppeIbsen_ joined #minetest
18:15 blaise I'm not even talking about happy.. I'm talking about functional
18:16 Hobodium That's wonderful. I agree that credit and loans are an easily abused system and the major banks really need to be reduced a few hundred pegs, but that doesn't mean that economic systems just don't work.
18:16 JeppeIbsen_ Where should I begin work, if I wanted voxel placement as a 3-dimensional matrix (for a simple matlab simulation)?
18:16 blaise these people wouldn't know what to do if they actually had to provide for themselves
18:16 blaise this "economy" has broken humanity
18:16 deltasquared anyways, what I said earlier (pretty sure it's buried now) is does anyone regularly use a lua mapgen? never could get a decent speed, I think I need moar CPU power
18:16 Hobodium blaise, that is called society. It's a good thing I don't need to know how to farm to live hand to mouth.
18:17 blaise because you would starve to death?
18:17 khonkhortisan it's a good thing in the absense of natural disaster
18:17 _Esteban This is quite an interesting conversation, sadly I have to finish some stuff :P
18:17 blaise ^^^ exactly
18:18 JeppeIbsen_ voxels seems to be usually stored in direct 8-bit data, how would you believe this could be converted to a 3-dimensional matrix?
18:18 Hobodium Well, for one sustenance farming is incredibly inefficient, and means we can't do things like sending things into space ebcause everybody is too busy trying to feed themselves.
18:18 witheld I wish bi/tri-linear filtering had a warning
18:18 sfan5 ^^^^
18:18 sfan5 that
18:18 witheld "Hey, this will probably make most texture packs look like crap!"
18:18 sfan5 so much
18:18 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
18:19 witheld "It'll also make several of those shaders you also clicked without even thinking about pretty much useless"
18:19 deltasquared What is it that linear filtering actually achieves? I don't really like the visual effect it produces
18:19 jojoa1997 Hi
18:19 erlehmann joined #minetest
18:20 deltasquared seriously though, no-one here uses a lua mapgen regularly?
18:20 deltasquared not that I do, but i've tried
18:20 blaise Hobodium: then you have observed some really inefficient farming.
18:20 jojoa1997 deltasquared what is luamapgen?
18:21 deltasquared A lua mapgen is a mod which generates the terrain in place of the ones built into the engine
18:21 blaise jojoa1997: it's a map generator written in LUA ?
18:21 witheld I do
18:21 witheld I use mg
18:21 deltasquared they tend to be slower :P
18:21 Hobodium So you don't believe in things like economy of scale?
18:21 witheld it's nice
18:21 witheld and not too slow
18:21 jojoa1997 You mean the biomes?
18:21 deltasquared how long do chunks take to gen?
18:21 witheld The one with plantpack is HORRENDOUS
18:21 khonkhortisan I don't know the term to believe in it
18:21 witheld Seriously it is unusable over the internet, completely
18:22 blaise Hobodium: I don't believe the lies..
18:22 deltasquared plantpack slows a lot of stuff due to all the trees growing :P
18:22 witheld you cannot use it over the inrtnet
18:22 witheld internet*
18:22 deltasquared jojoa: not just the biomes, ALL of the terrain
18:22 Hobodium blaise: How is the concept of economy of scale a lie?
18:23 deltasquared witheld: bc I find the forum search to suck, would you have mg's forum post handy as a link?
18:24 witheld https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=11&amp;t=7263&amp;hilit=experimental
18:24 witheld It's really nice
18:24 deltasquared one sec...
18:25 witheld The villages are dumb, but otherwise
18:25 witheld it also adds oceans
18:25 witheld With the default mapgen, boats are pretty much useless for travel
18:25 witheld But mg fixes that
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18:26 PenguinDad witheld: in which way are the villages dumb?
18:26 khonkhortisan sounds like my recent openttd lan game
18:27 witheld PenguinDad: well, they kind of look bad and it's weird because they look lived in and have food and crops and torches and no people
18:27 khonkhortisan I had to make map edges water, and turn up rives as high as they'd go
18:27 sfan5 witheld: <3 mg
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18:29 witheld also they're kind of unnatural because they just completely flatten out the land
18:29 witheld it's weird
18:30 sfan5 witheld: it's pretty hard to make villagers (model and logic), the land is flattened because it's easier to make code that places houses on a flat surface
18:31 witheld I know these things
18:32 khonkhortisan to only flatten the land for each building would require ladders if there was enough of a height difference for paths
18:33 deltasquared I'm back, had a rather long-winded IRC discussion
18:33 witheld I like Minecraft's villages, it's a hilarious mess a lot of the times, but it's a nice looking hilarious mess
18:33 deltasquared can anyone remember how to operate tmux's copy buffer? man page failing me
18:34 sfan5 khonkhortisan: ladders OR some way of building roads
18:34 khonkhortisan shift-drag to select directly from the terminal
18:34 witheld especially when a river runs into the village and all the villagers have fallen into the river and been swept away
18:34 khonkhortisan I don't know the internal copy
18:34 deltasquared no wait, I got it
18:34 deltasquared ahem, xterm here
18:34 Hobodium Villages on ravines are always fun too.
18:35 floyin deltasquared, yeah, <escape> [ to start copy mode, space to start select.  Enter confirms select. <escape> ] paste
18:36 ThatGraemeGuy joined #minetest
18:37 Calinou sfan5, are there plans on having a Lua mapgen added to the default game/core?
18:37 deltasquared :/ Arch's package appears to use emacs-like bindings
18:37 deltasquared M-w is meta-w, meta is alt right?
18:37 Calinou after all, you have the big upside of handling all stuff in Lua, so you don't have to recompile to test mapgen changes.
18:37 Calinou we already did this for stuff like mobs
18:38 sfan5 Calinou: no
18:38 witheld oh no, I just realized, I don't know what happens to moreores if I use mg
18:39 floyin deltasquared, I belive meta is alt, but meta in irssi is Escape for me
18:41 deltasquared does mg not hook into minetest_game's ore functions?
18:41 witheld deltasquared: I don't know how any of this works
18:41 deltasquared "hook into". stop using forge terms damnit
18:41 deltasquared my bad
18:41 sfan5 deltasquared: "hook info" is not forge specific
18:42 sfan5 witheld: IIRC mg generates ores registered via register_ore
18:42 deltasquared yeah, but in the lua sense I'm not sure you can overwrite a function from within a mod arbitarily
18:42 witheld what farming mod do you guys use?
18:42 sfan5 deltasquared: you can
18:43 deltasquared I thought the whole point of lua's sandboxing was to stop stuff like that?
18:44 sfan5 no
18:44 sfan5 we don't have any sandboxing at all right now
18:44 khonkhortisan mesecons has some for the luacontroller
18:45 jojoa1997 what is sandboxing?
18:45 deltasquared still, I know functions are like any other object in lua, but overriding a function in such a manner seems hacky and dangerous
18:45 sfan5 why?
18:45 sfan5 sometimes it's needed
18:45 sfan5 jojoa1997: do you even wikipedia?
18:45 deltasquared eeeh, it doesn't seem the right way to do it...
18:45 witheld We're making games here not banking software
18:45 deltasquared messing with functions defined in another mod
18:46 deltasquared seems to be asking for trouble
18:46 jojoa1997 sfan5 what is that?
18:46 deltasquared you gotta be kidding.
18:46 sfan5 jojoa1997: stop
18:46 jojoa1997 too busy distracting myself from homework to go on wikipedia
18:47 witheld Okay what the heck is adding watermelons to my game and why can't I hit them....
18:47 sfan5 deltasquared: if the mod authors do things correctly, no
18:47 deltasquared hmm.
18:47 deltasquared I suppose
18:47 sfan5 as mods are generally compatible across versions it's the mod authors problem because the user expects stuff to work
18:47 deltasquared also, mg has snow biomes? must try
18:48 sfan5 yes it does
18:48 sfan5 I designed the pine trees
18:48 witheld deltasquared: yeah they're pretty nice
18:48 deltasquared shame that the in-built mod list appears to be broken atm
18:48 witheld In general the whole thing just feels a lot nicer
18:48 deltasquared oh wait...
18:48 deltasquared it works? huh.
18:49 deltasquared doesn't seem to be in there though
18:49 deltasquared back to the forum I suppose, one moment
18:50 sfan5 !title https://github.com/Novatux/mg
18:50 MinetestBot sfan5: Novatux/mg · GitHub
18:50 deltasquared what did that do?
18:51 sfan5 show me tha title of the page https://github.com/Novatux/mg
18:51 sfan5 the*
18:52 deltasquared uggh. mg needs moretrees, which needs plants_lib - I'll have to be careful not to pull in the other stuff, plantlife lags HARD
18:52 sfan5 mg doesn't need moretrees
18:52 jojoa1997 left #minetest
18:53 sfan5 deltasquared: modname? means you CAN install modname
18:53 deltasquared oh, I see
18:53 deltasquared like an optional. ok
18:53 deltasquared I've never seen that before
18:53 deltasquared well, a village is slowly appearing
18:54 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
18:54 * sfan5 meows at EvergreenTree
18:54 LazyJ joined #minetest
18:55 * EvergreenTree barks at sfan5
18:55 deltasquared uggh, I need a better CPU than a crappy pentium IV
18:55 PenguinDad A wild EvergreenTree appears :3
18:55 * EvergreenTree is a very hasty ent
18:55 Hobodium Who let all these animals in here
18:55 * sfan5 meows at Hobodium
18:56 PenguinDad Hobodium: Who let the dogs out! :D
18:56 deltasquared one thing I don't like about lua mapgens is the proximity range for generating new chunks
18:56 witheld deltasquared: just save man, you can build a brand new PC that'll play even brand new games decently for probably less then $200 if you really try
18:56 witheld I think that's about how much this one cost
18:57 deltasquared this was my budget PC, I realise now I made a poor choice for the mobo+CPU combo
18:57 witheld Considering that an Ivy Bridge Celeron is $50, yes
18:57 sfan5 deltasquared: if you just want a better cpu you can buy a cheap mini-itx mobo with cpu
18:58 deltasquared btw, bc I've never had to do so, I assume that CPU upgrades are more than whether the new CPU fits the current motherboard physically (i.e. same socket)
18:58 sfan5 <deltasquared> one thing I don't like about lua mapgens is the proximity range for generating new chunks
18:58 sfan5 the range is set by the game
18:58 witheld deltasquared: sometimes yes
18:58 sfan5 the lua mapgen just takes longer to gen. them
18:58 deltasquared hmm. now it's going, I agree, mg is decently fast
18:59 witheld sneaking on half blocks is broken
18:59 witheld Well not actually broken but...weird
18:59 sfan5 ew know
18:59 sfan5 ew
18:59 deltasquared you mean the floating thing?
18:59 sfan5 we
18:59 PenguinDad eee​w knows :D
18:59 deltasquared I've noticed that, is that the thing where if you sneak on a slab, you raise up as if on a full block?
19:00 witheld yeah
19:00 deltasquared I have to ask, why even?
19:00 sfan5 deltasquared: a mobo e.g. this: http://www.reichelt.de///?ARTICLE=144017
19:00 deltasquared also, is lua mapgen not threaded? bc commands seem to hang until gen is done
19:01 sfan5 nope
19:01 sfan5 not threaded
19:01 sfan5 lua can't use threads
19:01 sfan5 even if it could there's the Env lock
19:01 witheld that's kinda shite
19:01 deltasquared because I can't be bothered to go through the Ctrl-B [ and xsel dance again, what's the GPU on that mobo? Intel I hope :P
19:02 Pest joined #minetest
19:02 witheld looks like there's a thing to use win32 and pthreads from lua, but the last thing anyone needs is platform dependent code
19:02 sfan5 deltasquared: yep, intel gfx
19:03 deltasquared uggh, I'd hate to see the #ifdef mess around that :P
19:03 deltasquared sfan5: ah cool
19:03 sfan5 deltasquared: " Intel® 7th generation (Gen 7) graphics "
19:03 deltasquared It would seem recent Intel GPU's blow my current AMD card out of the water
19:04 deltasquared (It's a HD 5450)
19:04 witheld If there was ever a major exploit for minetest, would the public server list be made to reject that version?
19:05 deltasquared that'd cause some initial havoc methinks
19:05 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
19:05 deltasquared until everyone updates their server entries :P
19:05 sfan5 reject that client version or server version?
19:05 witheld sfan5: well, depends where the exploit is doesn't it!
19:05 sfan5 hm
19:05 sfan5 it will probably depends on how it affects servers
19:06 deltasquared In regards to a new mobo, it'd be nice to have a (stable) coreboot build for it, preferably on a swapple BIOS ROM chip
19:06 sfan5 it it doesn't exploit a logic bug someone would need to defeat ASLR/DEP, NX and stuff
19:06 sfan5 if it*
19:06 deltasquared ASLR is also OS-specific
19:07 deltasquared I'm pretty sure Windoze is set to only apply DEP to applications which ask for it by default
19:07 PenguinDad http://img.thedailywtf.com/​images/14/q3/e127/Pic-1.png xD
19:08 deltasquared something like /NoExecute OptIn
19:08 deltasquared in teh boot.ini
19:08 sfan5 deltasquared: does coreboot support UEFI?
19:08 deltasquared not AFAIK
19:08 sfan5 otherwise you would probably "downgrade" the feature of any new mobo
19:08 deltasquared yeah well, I was aiming to use grub as the payload
19:09 deltasquared as for a rescue disk, shouldn't be too hard to fix up
19:09 sfan5 gummiboot works way better with some UEFI laptop I have
19:09 Calinou Coreboot does
19:09 Calinou Coreboot is not a BIOS/UEFI replacement per se
19:09 Calinou it's payload stuff
19:09 deltasquared I know
19:09 Calinou TianoCore is what you would use to replace UEFI
19:10 Calinou you can even boot Windows, lol
19:10 Calinou (in theory)
19:10 Calinou <sfan5> otherwise you would probably "downgrade" the feature of any new mobo
19:10 sfan5 so basically you can't?
19:10 deltasquared I was under the impression TianoCore's implemetation into coreboot was still highly experimental
19:10 Calinou all the BIOS/UEFI replacements already do
19:10 rubberduck why is the command "me" listed twice under the "/help" command???
19:10 Calinou don't expect any of them to offer advanced overclocking, power management, or good looks
19:11 Calinou <witheld> Considering that an Ivy Bridge Celeron is $50, yes
19:11 Calinou why Ivy Bridge in 2014?
19:11 sfan5 Calinou: ASRock mobos have a decent menu (UEFI at least)
19:11 Calinou I've seen a G1820 at 35 € here
19:11 deltasquared overclocking: not me. power management: its not a laptop! good looks: pfft.
19:11 witheld Well then then!
19:11 Calinou power management is useful on desktops to reduce power bill, heat
19:11 Calinou sfan5, I mean, replacement ones
19:11 Calinou not stock UEFIs
19:12 sfan5 oh
19:12 Hobodium What are you talking about, desktop computers are good space heaters!
19:12 Calinou people there don't care about niches or looks
19:12 witheld Calinou: I should just say "A modern Celeron is $50"
19:12 Calinou they just want the thing to boot
19:12 deltasquared anyways, my eyes grow weary. continue the topic for me
19:12 deltasquared bai
19:12 Calinou last update to mg mod was on July 13? :(
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19:38 witheld Hwo does oddly_breakable_by_hand work? Does it make breaking it by hand take a very long time?
19:39 witheld How*
19:46 kaeza joined #minetest
19:48 kaeza greetings
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19:59 Calinou witheld, not always
19:59 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/8420477/
19:59 Calinou this is the hand's times
20:00 Calinou mods/default/tools.lua
20:00 Calinou hi kaeza
20:00 Calinou I gtg, night :)
20:00 alket joined #minetest
20:00 rubberduck one question about ores and their rarity, are rare ores more common at highest depth?? and how rare are nyan cats compared to mese blocks and is this influenced by height???
20:03 Animetrom joined #minetest
20:03 Calinou rubberduck, they may or may not be more common deeper
20:03 Calinou in minetest_game, there is no real need to go below -256
20:03 Calinou and really no need to go below -1024 (below that height you find rare Mese blocks, but they don't get more common as you go deeper)
20:03 Calinou -256 has lots of ores already
20:03 Calinou so go mine at -260 or so
20:05 witheld That's not true
20:05 witheld At least according to the wiki
20:05 witheld >Mese Blocks are the rarest mineral and the third rarest blocks and start appearing very deep underground, under 1024 node lengths below sea level.
20:05 witheld and
20:05 witheld >Mese ore starts appearing from below 64 node lengths below sea level and the clusters will become larger from below 256 node lengths below sea level.
20:05 witheld Larger clusters if you dig down deeper
20:05 witheld Dig deep my friend
20:07 Jordach at depths -1024 or lower, mese blocks will spawn, while at -64, mese ore spawns
20:13 * rubberduck going to sleep...   ...zzz...   ...zzz...  ...zzz...
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20:27 witheld I hate when I try to dig with food, but why on earth do you left click to eat anyway?
20:28 tanath joined #minetest
20:29 witheld ...is there a mod or way to get an interactive lua shell to a game?
20:29 Hobodium Because the controls to manually move your hand to your mouth and then use your jaw are a lot more complicated than left clicking
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