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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-07-31

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:47 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw
01:47 RealBadAngel what do you think about it?
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02:31 GTRsdk RealBadAngel, looking at lava?
02:32 RealBadAngel yes
02:32 GTRsdk looks trippy
02:33 NakedFury when looking at 22 seconds and up it looks great
02:33 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/CwfeNc1.png
02:34 RealBadAngel some bumpmapping added
02:34 NakedFury damn good lava
02:35 NakedFury really like how it looks
02:36 NakedFury we need this special effect for minetest lava
02:36 NakedFury https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xExdEXOaA9A#t=31
02:42 fu-fu Would I be right in guessing the only way to preserve variables between server restarts is in files?
02:46 fu-fu Also, very pretty.
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02:46 exio4 hi
02:46 fu-fu ho
02:47 Exio4 dammit
02:47 fu-fu timmad
02:48 Exio4 hai hai anyway
02:48 Exio4 -exio4- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Linux 2.6.37-slitaz [i686/4,01GHz/SMP]
02:48 Exio4 kinda weird
02:48 Exio4 32bits and 4ghz
02:48 Exio4 4012!
02:48 fu-fu Huh.
02:48 fu-fu Why?
02:49 Exio4 because noone sane uses 32bit + 4ghz + 12gb of ram
02:49 Exio4 Mem:          3257          135         3121            0           10
02:49 Exio4 i can use... 3257 mb of ram
02:50 fu-fu Recompile kernel with kexec, and see if you can spontaniously switch it to 64bit?
02:57 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58lS8ptwNkU
02:57 RealBadAngel ^^still lava
02:57 RealBadAngel with bumpmapping ofc
02:58 VanessaE you need to invert that bump-map
02:58 VanessaE the cracks look like ridges
02:58 VanessaE looks good though
02:59 RealBadAngel this is generated on the fly one
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05:42 donat how can I remove all entities from the world?
05:43 Vazon ./clearobjects would do it
05:43 Vazon at least i believe so
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06:32 donat thanks, it worked
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07:35 ThatGraemeGuy any objections to pipeworks-related questions here or is there a better place?
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08:00 sfan5 meow
08:00 sfan5 hi everyone
08:00 PenguinDad hi sfan5
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08:31 shadowzone Ok is there anyone here who is a op on the other #minetest?
08:36 sfan5 other #minetest?
08:36 sfan5 the one on inchra?
08:36 shadowzone Yes.
08:37 shadowzone there was a netsplit about 5 to 7 minutes ago.
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08:47 Krock hi
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08:48 shadowzone Hi.
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08:50 Calinou hi
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09:00 shadowzone VanessaE
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09:34 Calinou happy 3rd birthday 0.2_20110731
09:41 Krock :D
09:42 Calinou tomorrow, my forum account is 3 years old
09:43 Calinou in 3 days, I killed an oerkki for the first time 3 years ago
09:44 Krock in 1 day, I'll be playing with fire
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11:16 Jordach ello
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11:23 RealBadAngel hi Jordach
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11:36 PenguinDad Jordach: Dingbats Man was here :P
11:42 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v52f-1YsSAM
11:42 RealBadAngel ^^ new look
11:47 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/uMzaqOn.png and a screenshot
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12:15 Jordach RealBadAngel, you still don't understand that shaders aren't meant just for Haven right
12:16 VanessaE Jordach: he showed me that shader using default 16px lava texture also - it looked pretty good
12:17 VanessaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw
12:17 VanessaE there.
12:17 VanessaE the two nodes in the corner are flowing lava, still using the default texture.
12:17 VanessaE only visible for a few seconds though
12:18 VanessaE and also with HDX:  http://i.imgur.com/1YHRQMJ.png
12:29 Jordach i don't see it
12:30 VanessaE bbl
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12:32 Jordach i had an oh pls moment
12:34 Jordach !tell Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/wcs5Tq-Yr0tD.png
12:34 MinetestBot Jordach: yeah, sure, whatever
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12:35 Jordach and August tomorrow
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13:32 luizrpgluiz hi
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13:36 luizrpgluiz does anyone here mods?
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14:01 RealBadAngel Jordach, for christ sake, shaders are doing on high res sources in the first place
14:02 RealBadAngel 2nd, if you find this lava shader wrong, youre just fuckin blind
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14:02 RealBadAngel imho thats the most nice thing i ever made
14:02 RealBadAngel hmmm, here?
14:02 Jordach RealBadAngel, not everyone likes fucking >16px
14:03 PenguinDad Jordach: that's why there are settings to disable these shaders
14:04 RealBadAngel well, that lava is 2048px
14:04 RealBadAngel :P
14:05 RealBadAngel whats funny that lava shader is way faster than default 16px animated :P
14:06 RealBadAngel but anyway, you can feed the shader with any base texture
14:06 RealBadAngel as VanessaE mentioned even 16px looks quite interesting
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14:28 Krock hi
14:30 PenguinDad iH :kcorK
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14:30 MinetestBot Calinou: 07-31 17:34 UTC <Jordach> https://cdn.mediacru.sh/wcs5Tq-Yr0tD.png
14:31 Calinou lol
14:31 Calinou fun fact, when I first played TF2, I thought “BLU” was a typo
14:32 * Jordach considers making a random node mod
14:34 Calinou if you want to make a mod, make on that makes the /give command smart
14:34 Calinou searches in registered names, to not have to type mod name
14:34 Calinou can type partial name, auto-completion
14:34 Calinou sfan5 said this was possible
14:34 Jordach Calinou, random nodes as in potential conbinations of natual looks
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14:38 reactor Evening!
14:38 Krock afternoon!
14:38 reactor proller: heard about the new law?
14:45 Krock Jordach, srsly? still at 3999?
14:48 PenguinDad Krock: Jordach was configured with --enable-the-force :P
14:48 Krock :/
14:48 Krock seems like sticked the count at 3999
14:49 Krock wut? A 16 bit DOS application tells me about too less virtual ram?
14:50 Jordach >16bit >needs more ram
14:50 Krock >Jordach
14:50 Krock >need more posts
14:50 Jordach 1 more *
14:51 Krock why 1 more?
14:51 Jordach 3999 :P
14:51 Krock 97 posts
14:51 Krock until 4096
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14:52 Jordach you do realise i'm timing 4k with something right]
14:54 RealBadAngel Jordach, so compare it to real 16px (or something like that): minecraft lava shader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QT7Qqza9Sw
14:54 RealBadAngel :PPPPPP
14:55 Jordach #notashader
14:56 Jordach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ihfvu9Z4o8 not a fucking "real" light source
14:58 RealBadAngel that lava is ugly as millenium old dogs shit
14:59 Jordach RealBadAngel, and
14:59 RealBadAngel you may be good in blender but you dont have a bit of taste :P
14:59 Jordach try and make the modulation and distortion based on the resoulution of the image
14:59 reactor Speaking of blender.
14:59 Jordach that's used for the shader material
14:59 reactor Everything is grey in Cycles -- is this a known problem?
15:00 Jordach errrr
15:00 * Jordach doesn't use Cycles
15:00 Jordach best ask in #blender
15:00 Jordach or http://reddit.com/r/blender
15:00 RealBadAngel Jordach, lava is combination of 3 textures and some math
15:00 RealBadAngel its not so easily scaleable
15:00 Jordach RealBadAngel, stop hardcoding things D:
15:11 twoelk hi Krock, you use windows don't you?
15:16 Calinou joined #minetest
15:19 twoelk anybody want to try a mapper related batchfile I have been tinkering with?
15:20 Calinou your Windows seems legit, twoelk :P
15:20 * twoelk would like to know if this works on other pc's https://www.dropbox.com/s/tji​2lhjknpcnmq0/wizapmapper.zip
15:20 Calinou Windows Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2 (Build 6002)
15:22 mati1 joined #minetest
15:22 mati1 hi
15:22 mati1 dzindybry
15:22 twoelk one of several OS's I use ;-P
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15:26 Jordach hai Ecu :3
15:26 * sfan5 meows at Jordach
15:27 Jordach sfan5, [16:25:00] <Microchip> Jordach: Can't, I'm busy. (I just git pulled, since I've been playing BFD instead of Minetest_game) [16:25:05] <Microchip> Jordach: Way better imo.
15:27 sfan5 I don't decide which games get into the release
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15:27 sfan5 that info is worthless for me
15:27 jojoa1997 hi
15:27 * sfan5 licks jojoa1997
15:28 * jojoa1997 pets sfan5
15:30 Calinou well, you're always busy with BFD
15:31 Calinou jojoa1997, if you want to give Stunt Rally a try, you should probably start it downloading when you have time
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15:32 Jordach i'm an idiot as usual
15:32 Jordach i was doing it wrong
15:33 harrison joined #minetest
15:35 jojoa1997 Calinou nah i ahve other things
15:36 crazyR has anyone set the mesecons PISTON_MAXIMUM_PUSH settings higher than the default 15?
15:47 Krock Always look up on someone if you're not helping them down.
15:48 PenguinDad Krock: Never look up to someone unless you're helping them down. :P
15:48 Krock Always look up on everybody if you're not pushing them down.
15:48 Krock PenguinDad ^
15:50 PenguinDad Never look up everybody unless you're spying them :D
15:50 Krock omg. such opposite
15:55 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/qBA6Twlv2OzT.png → Geany colour scheme update
15:55 Calinou more yellow keywords
15:56 * PenguinDad hugs Calinou
15:56 sfan5 !tell hoodedice Droid Sans as a programming font? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/2OKDvLIqQhog.png ew why not monospace fonts?
15:56 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when hoodedice is around
15:57 Calinou use a fixed-width font
15:57 Calinou sfan5, DejaVu Sans Mono or Droid Sans Mono or Fira Mono
15:57 Calinou your colour scheme makes key words hard to read
15:57 sfan5 tell that hoodedice
15:57 Calinou almost impossible :s
15:57 sfan5 I use ency code r normally
15:57 sfan5 envy*
15:57 Calinou I tried to make everything as readable
15:57 Calinou proprietary font :p
15:57 sfan5 https://cdn.mediacru.sh/bFRUGiqUrOT1.png
15:57 Calinou also ugly anyway
15:58 Calinou too thin, feels like 1995
15:58 PenguinDad I usually use Droid Sans Mono
15:59 sfan5 droid sans mono looks
15:59 sfan5 meh
15:59 * Jordach sits there with Consolas
15:59 Jordach or was it courier
16:00 sfan5 Jordach: consolas is a bit too thick and courier is just ugly
16:01 Calinou DejaVu Sans Mono looks smooth, could be slightly more spaced between lines
16:01 Calinou but at least you can show lots of lines on a screen
16:01 Calinou a cave connecting two water pools (seen a few months ago in Carbone): https://cdn.mediacru.sh/J50XJ3eI-HTw.jpg
16:03 Jordach bullshit alarm https://cdn.mediacru.sh/zN_Ukyr-cns9.png
16:03 Jordach i can't be fucked to write a titanic single liner
16:04 sfan5 meow
16:05 Jordach i just want a font without AA and hinting
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16:06 sfan5 that doesn't really depend on the font
16:06 * Krock just tested minecraft demo and it not very happy. he got the same fps as in MT (even if MT should have less graphical "operations")
16:06 sfan5 I can set that in my xfce settings
16:06 Jordach Krock, 280fps in the snapshots
16:07 * Krock opens everytime the inventory when trying to walk fast :3
16:07 Calinou what's wrong with AA and hinting?!
16:07 Calinou these things aren't your enemies
16:07 sfan5 ^
16:08 * Krock 's try to enter /giveme default:hoe_stone failed (well, he could try it with mese, but that's not expectabletowork)
16:08 Jordach Krock, https://twitter.com/SeargeD​P/status/491594238329499648
16:08 Calinou Krock, meh, E-as-inventory-key is way smarter, that should've been default in Minetest
16:08 Calinou I use R as use key
16:08 Calinou very good
16:08 Calinou G as drop key
16:08 * twoelk always has inventory on E and fast on F
16:08 Calinou this is layout-agnostic, also works in AZERTY the same way it works on QWERTY
16:08 Calinou I have full range on F
16:08 PenguinDad Krock: that's why I set the inventory key to I in CMc
16:08 PenguinDad *MC
16:08 * Krock has MT defaults and it happy with it
16:09 Krock Jordach, your grpahics card is too good for your eyes
16:09 Krock the screen also can't display such framerate
16:09 twoelk nah mt defaults is two hands
16:10 PenguinDad MC default is two hands too
16:10 Krock now I get why MC alway looks other than MT on screenshots.. the nodes have a bigger shadow!
16:13 twoelk the most dangerous key in mt is Q, way to close to W
16:13 Calinou Q is a crap key
16:13 Calinou it changes on AZERTY, is poorly placed
16:13 twoelk on qwertz that is
16:14 twoelk erm "too close to"?
16:15 Jordach does minetest.dig_node(pos) drop the item on the floor when used?
16:15 Calinou https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/293 → BlockMen powa!
16:15 Jordach (i'm in need of the method used for dropping when inv full)
16:16 Krock Jordach, for my tests, it only dug them. don't kno about item_drop
16:16 Jordach bleh, i mean literally use the code else where that makes the item drop
16:17 Jordach when your inventory is completely full
16:17 twoelk overflowing inventory?
16:18 twoelk drop the most valuable first :-D
16:18 Jordach twoelk, you know mining stone until it starts falling onto the floor
16:19 twoelk yeah thats when I start storing stuff in the crafting grid
16:19 Jordach twoelk, well i just want the items falling on the floor bit
16:19 twoelk bags in default ftw
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16:21 twoelk I love the vacuming effect when you approach  dropped items with room in the inventory
16:23 AnotherBrick joined #minetest
16:24 * twoelk is musing about a vacumcleaner mod that deletes the items it sucks up
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16:25 Jordach i suppose core.get_item_drops can be used as a substitute
16:27 Jordach PilzAdam, i'm trying to drop items from an abm, eg, remove the node, the drop drops from where the abm activated
16:31 PenguinDad Papyrus is the rarest thing in my subgame :D
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16:34 twoelk why make papyrus rare?
16:35 PenguinDad twoelk: it's actually a bug =)
16:35 twoelk oops
16:36 twoelk I think papyrus is rather usefull and quite often too rare on servers
16:36 Krock papyrus blocks are needd.
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16:37 twoelk hm 9 papyrus=papyrusblock=bambus?
16:37 Krock papyrus != bambus
16:37 Jordach i have the feeling this might not work
16:37 Jordach http://paste.debian.net/112965/
16:38 Krock bambus != propr english
16:39 twoelk minetest uses proper english?
16:39 Krock Jordach, why "hardcoding" thoseliquids? just go through all registered nodes
16:39 Jordach items aren't dropping
16:39 Krock minetest much english proper
16:40 Krock ah I see, use group:liquid
16:40 Jordach Krock, can't be bothered
16:40 Jordach a simple list is faster
16:40 Krock k
16:40 twoelk proper can mean in german "all shiney and well made"
16:41 PenguinDad yay! just increasing two numbers fixed it
16:41 Krock can a can be CleAN?
16:41 Jordach seriously - i'm trying to get the drops of a node in that list and make sure it puts them in the world
16:44 init joined #minetest
16:53 Jordach WOOO
17:02 Jordach items now drop from being replaced by flowing liquids
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17:04 Calinou cool
17:04 Calinou ABM?
17:04 Jordach yes
17:04 Jordach kinda heavy
17:04 LemonLake yes yes
17:04 LemonLake heavy is
17:04 Jordach mowing the fucking lawn: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/9Npnm7_gqEwe.png
17:05 Jordach i may have brutally murdered a builtin script
17:05 Jordach (and moving it to misc)
17:05 Jordach (if anyone asks, my usual address is running it)
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17:12 Calinou pull request to minetest_game, I guess
17:15 Exio joined #minetest
17:15 sfan5 !up jordach.minetest.net
17:15 MinetestBot jordach.minetest.net:30000 is up (402ms)
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17:26 Jordach mew?
17:26 * sfan5 meows at Jordach
17:27 Jordach 56fps in BFD :p
17:27 Jordach (with the VM engaged)
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17:29 sfan5 Jordach: spotify:track:2vBQaIronZnOIpZBwSHQYb
17:32 Krock !up minetest.ntdll.net
17:32 MinetestBot minetest.ntdll.net:30000 is up (84ms)
17:33 Jordach turns out theres lots of builtin code that can be used elsewhere
17:33 sfan5 Random thing: servers.minetest.net now supports IPv6 (for the web server, IPv6 for servers was already supported)
17:36 PenguinDad joined #minetest
17:38 jp__ [ENTER] key still crash MT when pressed...
17:38 sfan5 we know
17:38 sfan5 but nobody wants to fix it
17:39 PenguinDad Roboto Condensed still crashes gimp in debian
17:40 Sokomine hm. if i turn shaders on (for waving plants and water), my fan audibly has more to do. guess i'll better stick to shaders off again for testing...and turn them on only for actual playing
17:42 Calinou Sokomine, shaders on, without waving stuff
17:42 Calinou is what I use, to fix water rendering and such
17:42 Calinou but yeah, shader-less rendering is almost the same now
17:43 Sokomine i like the waving plants. it makes the landscape more enjoyable. and the waving water is also decorative. but for testing, that's not really required
17:44 * Sokomine is generating lots of villages in order to see if they work out as desired
17:44 * sfan5 is meowing
17:44 * PenguinDad pets sfan5
17:45 * sfan5 purrs
17:45 * Sokomine pets sfan5 as well and puts a glass of milk on the table
17:46 * sfan5 noms the milk
17:46 Calinou meh, I hate waving stuff, bad for gameplay, distracting
17:47 jp__ +1
17:47 Calinou Minetest running without FPS limit doesn't make the card any noisier, due to obnoxious CPU limitation
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17:47 Calinou (but I limit FPS to make it use less power)
17:47 Sokomine the waving trees are very odd and confusing, yes. as for plants, i like it. but i rarely play survival as such
17:47 rubenwardy Hi all!
17:47 Jordach rubenwardy, ello
17:47 Jordach i did quite a bit of mowing the lawn ;3
17:48 PenguinDad hey rubenwardy
17:48 Sokomine it's only a very small increase in fan speed. it's audible, but only when it's quiet. after all this is still just a celeron g1610 doing the job...not a fancy graphics card :-)
17:48 Sokomine hi rubenwardy
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17:48 Sokomine jordach: real one or in bfd?
17:48 Jordach BFD#
17:48 Sokomine ah :-)
17:48 Jordach rubenwardy, Sokomine https://cdn.mediacru.sh/9Npnm7_gqEwe.png
17:48 Jordach water and other liquids remove plants and other stuff ;3
17:49 Sokomine i'm currently puzzling over how to best place fields around the villages generated by nores mapgen. turning the buildings further out into fields helps only to a limited degree. it still looks too odd
17:50 Calinou my CPU fan speed never increases, or I don't hear that increase
17:50 Calinou the latter probably
17:50 Sokomine hmm. i don' like that removing part of water. better add a real harvester :-) a node that travels on raillike nodes and has two "arms" stretching sideways 3 nodes with what looks like 3 tubes from pipeworks would be nice
17:50 Calinou it's not PWM, but motherboard regulates it
17:50 Calinou runs at ~600 rpm at idle (minimum setting)
17:51 Jordach Sokomine, plants don't block water literally, and neither do flowers
17:51 Sokomine i'm using the boxed fan as that was said to be good enough (and quiet enough) for that cpu. and it is. it's really just a slow increase of noise
17:52 Sokomine hmm. but they don't get harvested by water either. the water just flows through
17:52 Calinou woah, boxed fan is crap
17:52 Calinou for small dual cores it's acceptable, nothing more
17:52 Sokomine remember, it's a cheap cpu that doesn't generate much heat anyway
17:52 Calinou but if you want real quietness, you need something better
17:52 Calinou but at least boxed fan is easy to install
17:52 Sokomine exactly. it's the smallest dual core anyway
17:53 Calinou unlike the heatsink I use :/
17:53 Calinou (and it's not the hardest-to-install one ever seen by mankind)
17:53 Sokomine yes. that was an argument for it as well: with that cheap cpu, i didn't have to worry much about cooling. easy install + quiet + low power consumption...works quite well most of the time :-)
17:54 Sokomine sometimes i wish for a dedicated graphics card though. it'd perhaps allow me to look further or to get at least more fps on far
17:54 VanessaE Jordach, RealBadAngel:  I showed Abe that minecraft lava shader, he thought it looked good.  then showed him the minetest one with the 16px textures in the corner and he was like "WHOA!".
17:54 Jordach 16px doesn't prove it
17:54 VanessaE Jordach: this video doesn't? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw
17:55 VanessaE Jordach: what would prove it then?  aside from needing to see the code of course
17:55 Jordach VanessaE, it doesn't even look like the original texture
17:55 VanessaE it is the original texture.
17:55 Jordach and RBA is hardcoding patterns
17:55 VanessaE the patterns come from a normalmap I believe
17:55 Jordach a simple noise texture solves everything
17:55 VanessaE similar to what's done with the water surface shader
17:55 VanessaE you can replace them via a texture pack
17:56 VanessaE the overlaying texture comes from the textures you supply in your game/texture pack
17:56 Sokomine vanessae: tell it inocudom. he loves improvements on the graphics side :-)
17:56 VanessaE I had him try it with default textures and with the textures supplied in HDX.
17:56 Sokomine sounds like a practical soulution
17:57 Jordach water doesn't have a fucking normal map IRL
17:57 Jordach i don't want graphics from 1998
17:57 LemonLake Jordach: normal maps don't fucking exist IRL
17:57 VanessaE Jordach: no, but it has rippled on the surface.  the only sane, efficient way to model something like water is to use normalmapping.
17:57 VanessaE that's how all modern games do it
17:57 LemonLake but do you know how expensive it would be to calculate REAL water?
17:57 Jordach efficient
17:57 Sokomine hmm, those graphics back then wheren't bad. graphics' not everything
17:57 LemonLake reaaallly fucking expensive
17:58 Jordach LemonLake, the perlin noise can be used
17:58 VanessaE Jordach: realtime perlin noise would be ridiculously expensive
17:58 Jordach VanessaE, horse shit
17:58 VanessaE it can't be done, not even with a Titan or tesla.
17:58 Jordach if blender cycles can fucking do it, you're doing it wrong
17:58 Jordach and other video games as well
17:59 VanessaE just because they can doesn't mean they *should*
17:59 Calinou Tesla is not necessarily faster than GeForces, VanessaE
17:59 Calinou they have some more professional features, that's all
17:59 Calinou (but less than Quadros… and they usually don't have video outputs)
17:59 VanessaE Calinou: I know, just going by the benchmarks
18:00 Calinou Jordach, water using normal maps looks quite good
18:01 VanessaE Jordach: you don't expend 100 CPU cycles doing something if you can do it in 10 cycles and spend 100K in image data to get it done.  Not if you're doing it in a speed-critical render loop.
18:01 VanessaE in blender, it just doesn't matter.,
18:01 VanessaE in a video game, it fucking matters more than ANYTHING.
18:01 LemonLake ^
18:01 Jordach other video games already produce non repeating water normals
18:01 VanessaE rule number one in speed critical code:  memory is cheap.  CPU cycles aren't.
18:01 Jordach bullshit
18:01 Jordach 1998 thinking
18:02 VanessaE WHAT
18:02 VanessaE that's even more important now than ever
18:02 Jordach memory is your fucking chokepoint
18:02 VanessaE we can't speed CPUs up anymore, and GPUs are starting to top out now too
18:02 VanessaE (and when I say "CPU cycles" I also, by extension, mean GPU cycles)
18:03 VanessaE if memory is your choke point, your memory is too damned slow or your workload is too big
18:03 VanessaE cache misses are the problem if your memory is too slow
18:03 VanessaE what's the common size of an L1 cache now?
18:03 VanessaE 64k?  256?  I can't remember
18:04 Calinou you could tile a texture on several node spaces
18:04 rubenwardy CPU cycles are cheap. Data transfer is not.
18:04 Calinou we really need that in Minetest, good to make textures that tile well
18:04 rubenwardy Most of the time the CPU is waiting for RAM memory
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18:04 Calinou (eg. 64 × 64 texture on 4 × 4 × 4 stone area)
18:04 VanessaE Calinou: procedural texturing would help things too
18:04 Calinou not necessarily procedural
18:04 VanessaE but I see what you're saying
18:04 Calinou but this would help a lot already, to have textures that tile well
18:04 PenguinDad Calinou: http://sprunge.us/gAMB
18:05 Calinou what's this, why?
18:05 * Jordach sees a sokomine
18:06 Calinou VanessaE, actually, we do get about 10 % performance increase each year on CPU, and about 20 % per year for GPU
18:06 Calinou (we'll have 20 nm in 2015… everyone promised it for 2014, but it'll only be for 2015, same goes for 14 nm CPUs)
18:07 Calinou DDR 4 next year too, probably
18:07 Calinou so IGPs will be faster (since they rely heavily on system RAM)
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18:07 PenguinDad patch for carbone makes the lava cooling code more readable
18:07 VanessaE well 10-20% is okay but really, that's hardly Moore's Law compliant.
18:08 VanessaE point is, stop wasting CPU/GPU cycles to do something that can be done faster in other ways
18:09 PenguinDad ^ Calinou
18:09 Calinou OK
18:09 VanessaE if you can look up something faster in a table than you can calculate it, then use the table.
18:10 VanessaE and that's not 1998 thinking, that's 1982 thinking, when we still used microcomputers and knew how to squeeze every last cycle out of the computer because we HAD to.
18:10 VanessaE it's a lost art and honestly, it's sad :(
18:10 rubenwardy Most of the time the CPU is waiting for RAM memory
18:10 VanessaE rubenwardy: much of the time, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "most".
18:11 VanessaE if it were "most", programs wouldn't be deadlocked at 100% in userspace doing whatever they do (it would be "system" time)
18:11 rubenwardy As long as the table fits in the RAM cache, it should be fine
18:11 VanessaE exactly
18:12 Exio joined #minetest
18:12 * twoelk misses well writen html not relaying on grafics
18:13 Sokomine i'm curious as to how your mapgen now works, jordach :-)
18:14 Calinou pushed, seems to work
18:14 Calinou <VanessaE> it's a lost art and honestly, it's sad :(
18:15 Calinou human time isn't cheap, computer time is
18:15 VanessaE yeah but even human time done for fun?
18:15 Calinou twoelk, flat design relies on graphics less than skeuomorphic design.
18:15 VanessaE why does *every fucking thing* have to be measured in <insert currency here>? :(
18:15 Calinou VanessaE, programming isn't fun to many people
18:15 Calinou in maptools:copper_coin? :p
18:16 VanessaE hah
18:16 Calinou twoelk, so, we do use less images and such than before, because flat design is the new cool thing
18:16 Calinou (and it's good)
18:16 Exio Calinou, the problem is when people saying "meh fuck it"
18:16 Calinou pages load faster, easier to design, less relying on image editing software
18:16 VanessaE you could have at least said gold coins :P
18:16 Exio "i could do it in 3 hours, but i'll do it in 2 hours and half"
18:16 Exio "AND HAVE A 700% PERFORMANCE TRADEOFF"
18:16 twoelk (oh so that is how you spell relies)
18:16 Exio the problem is that computer time IS cheap, not infinite
18:17 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sm8h7j6G1fTr.png
18:17 Calinou how the colour scheme looks now, with Minetest code
18:17 twoelk long times ago I argued with adobe guys on computer fairs that you should not solve everything with graphics
18:18 twoelk they listened but shoved me away when potential custumers showed up
18:19 VanessaE Calinou: if I spend too long reading light-on-dark, I get raster burn :-/
18:19 VanessaE (ironically IRC and all my terminals are light-on-dark)
18:19 VanessaE (but do it in an editor or on the web and ugh..)
18:19 Calinou oh, I love light-on-dark
18:20 Calinou I made the text bright grey, not white
18:20 Calinou background is dark grey, not black
18:20 Calinou to reduce contrast
18:20 Calinou looks very easy on the eyes to me, all text is actually readable (unlike many syntax colourings where there will be cherry-coloured text on dark grey)
18:20 Calinou comments are visible, they're even highlighted, so you don't forget them :D
18:26 PenguinDad an invisible comment would be useless :D
18:27 twoelk toggling comments can be usefull to see the flow of the code better
18:29 Exio woo
18:29 Exio argentina's economy is fucked up
18:30 Exio can anyone tell me what your news channels are saying @ TV?
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18:35 Calinou PenguinDad, many colour schemes make comments hard to read, or make them too discreet
18:35 Calinou see https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/your-s​yntax-highlighter-is-wrong-6f83add748c9 for comments
18:35 Calinou making them highlighted is probably a better idea
18:37 Exio Calinou, anyway, if you need to use a lot of comments, something is wrong
18:37 Exio unless you're coding in ASM
18:37 rubenwardy joined #minetest
18:37 Calinou it's good to have comments for stuff that may seem obvious, in 6 months it probably won't be obvious
18:37 VanessaE Exio: no news to watch here (no TV); what's going on in Argentina?
18:38 twoelk last news I heard about Argentina was "economy is in trouble" :-(
18:39 Exio Calinou, use better function names, proper variables, try to solve just a single thing in a single function, make them have less side effects (noone if possible..)
18:39 VanessaE twoelk: not good.  comparable to the crisis the US had since 2007, or more like US Great Depression in 1929?
18:40 Exio what you 1929 our 2001?
18:40 Exio your*
18:40 twoelk the word that made me listen was "insolvence"
18:40 Exio it isn't going to be like 2001, if everything goes well, we'll have a super-devaluated currency!
18:41 VanessaE Exio: 1929 and a few years beyond led to mass homelessness and unemployment.  it was a HUGE crash for the US economy (and the rest of the world suffered then too)
18:41 Exio VanessaE, what was the unemployment?
18:41 twoelk didn't hear (car-radio) to what that applied though
18:41 Exio +50%?
18:41 Calinou Exio, you should still comment your code
18:41 Calinou and add good spacing too
18:41 Calinou code is like writing, it should feel good to read
18:42 Exio Calinou, "x = randomNumber(seed) // get a random number into x, using <seed>"
18:42 Exio ths?
18:42 Exio this*?
18:42 twoelk 1929 was part of the fertilizer for the brown 30's in Germany
18:43 Calinou I don't do that, Exio
18:43 Calinou sounds = default.node_sound_wood_defaults(), -- Intended.
18:43 Calinou eg. this for Mese block
18:43 Calinou so that people don't report this as a bug, and to not make myself surprised when I look at it later
18:43 Exio tell me what kind of comments do you need to specify in a normal high-language nowdays
18:43 Exio Calinou, you should define a local function
18:43 Exio "sounds"
18:43 Jordach most of my animated chest code is UN commented
18:44 Exio or a local table, or stuff
18:44 Exio and make the code be obvious
18:44 Exio also, try to avoid the "how the computer should solve this problem" and instead abstract the "low-level stuff" as much as possible
18:45 Exio anyway, that isn't possible in dynamic languages :(
18:45 Exio Calinou, (Generalized) Algebraic data types + Phantom types
18:45 Jordach biggest lie of all time https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sNfHdtVkoiOf.png
18:46 LemonLake Jordach: if it takes that long it means the subtitles are corrupted
18:47 Jordach LemonLake, i mean the building of it
18:47 Jordach >minute >takes 3 minutes
18:48 Exio at least it finishes
18:48 Exio if i do that here it'd take 15 minutes and then the system would crash
18:48 Exio probably...
18:49 Exio we need a hs to lua compiler!
18:49 Exio or maybe a super-set of lua with a typesystem and algebraic datatypes
18:49 Exio sounds kinda nice
18:50 Exio a super-set of lua :D
18:50 Exio sadly lua isn't lisp...
18:50 Exio or it'd be easy ;P
18:50 PenguinDad we need a [insert your favourite] to lua compiler!
18:50 PenguinDad + language
18:51 Exio imo a superset of lua would be kinda neat
18:51 Calinou MoonScript?
18:51 Calinou you could write Minetest mods in it
18:51 Calinou there's also Vortex, by q66
18:51 Calinou q66, (is that thing useful?)
18:52 Exio Calinou, what about the types?
18:52 * PenguinDad throws http://squirrel-lang.org/ in the channel
18:52 Exio a typesystem + adts would be very useful when writing mods
18:53 q66 <Calinou> q66, (is that thing useful?)
18:53 q66 no
18:53 q66 i put it on hiatus
18:53 q66 with that i'll redesign it... one day
18:53 q66 also moonscript sucks :P
18:53 q66 just use lua
18:54 Exio vortex sounds like what i would like to use
18:54 q66 also integrating a typesystem with tables and metatables is painful and probably near impossible
18:54 Exio i wouldn't want a sound typesystem
18:55 q66 doesn't matter if sound or unsound
18:55 q66 tables are dynamic
18:55 q66 so they cannot easily be typed
18:55 Exio yeah, i still think some kind of type safety in a few cases would be possible
18:55 q66 i was experimenting with this
18:55 q66 it's difficult
18:56 q66 in my game engine i use a superset of lua https://github.com/quaker66/luacy
18:56 q66 not typed though
18:56 q66 just a few things i found handy
18:57 paramat hmmmm is there any way to control or predict the order of 'on generated' functions of multiple terrain processing mods? Also, intersecting mod update with screenshot https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=11&amp;t=9521&amp;p=149438#p149438
18:58 rubenwardy paramat: it is FIFO
18:58 rubenwardy So depends on loading of mods
18:59 Krock paramat, +1, I support this idea
18:59 rubenwardy you could probably do minetest.registered_on_generated.insert(1, function)  -- inserts at first.
19:00 paramat thanks
19:00 rubenwardy * minetest.registered_on_generated.insert(function, 1)
19:04 paramat can this 'loading of mods' be controlled by their dependancies?
19:05 Krock yes ^
19:06 Krock but idk about the on_generated function
19:08 rubenwardy If you depend on a mod, the do their on_generated first
19:08 rubenwardy *they
19:08 VanessaE rubenwardy: it's not FIFO either.
19:08 VanessaE not if vmanip is involved.
19:08 rubenwardy Huh?
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19:08 VanessaE see the recent compatibility problem between snow mod and plants_lib
19:09 VanessaE I think there's an issue filed against minetest engine for it
19:09 rubenwardy It is run in FIFO, but there is no guarantee that the nodes are saved in time for your callback.
19:09 VanessaE that's the problem.
19:09 VanessaE either Lua is single-threaded or it isn't.
19:09 rubenwardy So it is as if it is simultaneous.
19:10 paramat no one seems to know for sure, that's why i'm asking the expert
19:10 VanessaE simultaneous is a problem
19:10 VanessaE a BIG problem
19:11 PenguinDad paramat: hmmm isn't the only expert ;)
19:11 rubenwardy You question was about the order of functions, which is pretty easy. FIFO. The order of application of changes is harder.
19:11 paramat ah i see
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19:13 Calinou FIFO?
19:13 asie joined #minetest
19:14 PenguinDad Calinou: First-In First-Out
19:15 Calinou ah
19:15 asie joined #minetest
19:17 asie joined #minetest
19:19 rubenwardy A quick google would tell you :P
19:20 Calinou not Google
19:20 Krock DDG
19:21 rubenwardy DDG doesn't return anything relevant
19:21 rubenwardy (exaggeration)
19:21 PenguinDad rubenwardy: it does for me :/
19:21 Exio4 layer 8 problems
19:23 * sfan5 licks Exio4
19:24 PenguinDad Layer 8 is often poorly implemented :D
19:25 paramat it could be a race condition, so i will code mods to behave properly whatever the order of vmanip execution
19:30 LemonLake why not have some sort of global table or something?
19:33 VanessaE paramat: all I know is when snow mod started using vm's, plants_lib stopped working with it because snow's vm actions erase plants_lib's actions entirely.  it's since been patched to at least allow plants_lib's non-snow-biome actions to work, but it's still partly busted.
19:33 VanessaE it's an engine fault, because the two mods are meant to work together.
19:35 VanessaE (and plants_lib does NOT use vm's)
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19:40 Jordach fuck
19:40 Jordach we're halfway through the year already
19:40 VanessaE yep
19:40 Krock yeah. noticed that too
19:40 Krock some hours ago, it was sprin
19:40 Krock g
19:42 * sfan5 meows at Jordach
19:43 Jordach GTV5 for PC looks fucking insane
19:44 Jordach GTA*
19:44 LemonLake oh wow it does
19:45 hmmmm paramat:  callbacks are performed in the order the callbacks were registered
19:45 VanessaE hmmmm: nope.avi
19:45 Calinou Jordach, like its hardware requirements, probably
19:46 * Jordach pokes VanessaE about making a data cache for BFD that's moderately upto date
19:46 VanessaE (maybe they're *supposed* to, but it doesn't work in practice :) )
19:46 hmmmm okay, why
19:46 Exio then something is fucked up?
19:46 hmmmm VanessaE:  if you're saying that I'm wrong, that implies there is a bug somewhere
19:47 VanessaE hmmmm: not saying you're wrong, per se.  Rather that the engine is.
19:47 VanessaE lemme search a sec.
19:47 Exio he just said what the engine should do
19:47 VanessaE there it is
19:47 hmmmm the engine does not call each individual callbacks, it only calls builtin.lua:core.run_callbacks()
19:47 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1354
19:48 VanessaE hmmmm: this issue explains it better.
19:48 VanessaE I don't like calling you wrong :)
19:50 VanessaE Jordach: I'm gonna redo the caches soon; the main one is based mostly around dreambuilder's media but some of that is "outdated" relative to what you might want
19:50 hmmmm wait a minute
19:50 paramat thanks hmmmmm
19:50 hmmmm let's think about this rationally for a minute
19:50 hmmmm mapgen is finished, Map::finishBlockMake is called, VoxelManipulator is not destroyed at this point, but merely the contents have been blit back
19:50 hmmmm THEN the callbacks are called in order of their registration
19:51 VanessaE hmmmm: yes - but those callbacks' mapgen operations are *ignored*
19:51 VanessaE or something.
19:51 hmmmm an on_generated callback may obtain the mapgen object voxelmanip from that thread and the LuaVoxelManip wrapper is created around it
19:52 hmmmm so let's say callback #1 uses this
19:53 hmmmm at this point it should not need to call read_from_map because the contents are still loaded from the mapgen
19:53 hmmmm but they still need to call write_to_map after they're done
19:54 hmmmm okay
19:54 hmmmm so the problem can exist if the voxelmanip-using callback happens after the set_node call one
19:55 VanessaE more or less yeah
19:55 hmmmm callback #1 does some set_node, so the Map is updated but the mapgen's VoxelManipulator contents are not
19:55 VanessaE see:
19:55 hmmmm then callback #2 using the voxelmanip thinks
19:55 hmmmm "oh I can save a step and not read from the map!"
19:55 VanessaE in the past, the snow mod used set_node()/get_node() and plants_lib opt-depended on it, so it just worked.
19:55 hmmmm now let's be real here
19:55 hmmmm this can NOT be fixed
19:55 VanessaE now snow mod uses vm's to do its mapgen work
19:55 Jordach VanessaE, what's the cURL line?
19:56 LemonLake Jordach: ____
19:56 hmmmm it would require each mapgen's internal voxelmanip object to be updated from within Map
19:56 * Jordach claps
19:56 LemonLake More accurately: ____)
19:56 VanessaE Jordach: remote_media = http://192.99.11.10/creative-survival-media/
19:56 hmmmm but the voxelmanipulator is not some external, persistant object
19:56 Jordach VanessaE, got it
19:56 hmmmm it lives for only one makeChunk call, and then gets deallocated
19:57 sfan5 VanessaE: why no index.mth?
19:57 VanessaE hmmmm: but we're talking about *one* mod that uses vm's within on_generated, competing with *one* mod that uses only traditional set_node/get_node calls within on_generated
19:57 hmmmm if you were to really update each voxelmanipulator then you'd need the envlock back
19:57 VanessaE sfan5: too lazy to fix.
19:57 hmmmm or you'd need to add a new lock for mapgen voxelmanipulators
19:57 Jordach remote_media = minetest.digitalaudioconcepts.com/
19:57 Jordach ^ VanessaE
19:57 hmmmm vanessae:  okay, so we are, what's the point?
19:57 Jordach just waiting for the folder name :P
19:58 sfan5 VanessaE: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560
19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: the point is that the changes are being written out-of-order relative to the mods' reads
19:58 sfan5 Jordach: you probably need a http://
19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: you've got mod A reads map, mod B reads map, mod B writes map, mod A writes map.   Ergo mod B's changes got overwritten.
19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: it should be mod A reads, mod A writes, B reads, B writes.
19:58 Jordach sfan5, at least my clipboard is synced between Host and Guest
19:59 Krock we need priorities.
19:59 hmmmm perhaps there should be a new voxelmanip object method that would just return a bool that is set if it's "dirty"
19:59 hmmmm so then some code would be like
19:59 hmmmm vm = minetest.get_mapgen_object("voxelmanip")
19:59 hmmmm if vm.is_dirty() then
19:59 hmmmm vm.read_from_map(emin, emax)
19:59 hmmmm ??
19:59 Krock else ?
20:00 hmmmm if it's not in a dirty state, then the VM hasn't been invalidated yet and you don't need to do anything
20:00 VanessaE hmmmm: you're proposing putting that in mod B's on_generated calls?
20:00 hmmmm in all on_generated calls from this point forward
20:00 VanessaE that's messy
20:01 hmmmm got a better idea then?
20:01 VanessaE we're talking about mods that *don't use* vm's at all here, being overwritten by mods that do
20:01 PenguinDad Krock: else print("Yay, the voxelmanip isn't dirty!")
20:01 PenguinDad end
20:01 Krock :D
20:02 VanessaE e.g. a mod that generates terrain using vm's is keeping a mod that uses traditional calls to add stuff to the terrain from being able to actually add its stuff because the terrain is overwriting those changes
20:02 VanessaE despite the second mod depending on the first
20:02 VanessaE (ergo the second mod always loads and runs last)
20:02 hmmmm got a better idea then?
20:02 VanessaE not at present
20:03 VanessaE except that if there's a vm object "open" for a given mod, I can only say to lock it
20:03 hmmmm perhaps there can be a convenience wrapper that keeps getting the data at one call, and validates the VM contents
20:03 hmmmm like
20:03 hmmmm vm.get_current_data()
20:03 VanessaE if you're somehow running this stuff concurrently, or there's any way at all for another mod to read/write the map and there's a vm "open" for a given mapblock, you're gonna have to envlock that mapblock so that shit gets done in the order that it should, until the vm is "released"
20:04 hmmmm lol
20:04 VanessaE (please excuse me if I don't know the terms properly)
20:04 hmmmm vanessa, none of this is concurrent.
20:04 hmmmm alright
20:04 VanessaE if it's not concurrent, then how are these two mods possibly able to move from a read A, write A, read B, write B pattern, ---> to read A, read B, write B, write A  when neither mod has any control over that?
20:05 hmmmm vanessae:  no mod shall ever do that latter pattern
20:05 VanessaE but that's exactly what's happening.
20:05 hmmmm it'll have unpredictable results
20:05 hmmmm no no
20:05 VanessaE yes yes
20:05 hmmmm mod A is not reading
20:05 hmmmm it's just using data that had been invalidated thanks to the mod using set_data()
20:05 hmmmm the only thing doing reading to the VM is the mapgen
20:06 VanessaE "read" means in this case either getting a vm object or doing a get_node() call.
20:06 hmmmm read to the mapgen
20:06 hmmmm er voxelmanip
20:06 hmmmm whatever
20:06 hmmmm trust me, this is plenty clean
20:07 hmmmm I'm going to add a new method to LuaVoxelManip called get_current_data() that'll check to see if the VM contents have been invalidated, and if so, make a new call to read_from_map() before finally returning the result of get_data()
20:07 VanessaE point is, mod A does all it's work in its on_generated call, then mod B gets to run its on_generated calls.  But mod B's on_generated calls, which I have confirmed are in fact being run, are being completely overwritten by mod A's
20:07 hmmmm so you'll be able to do like
20:07 hmmmm data = vm.get_current_data()
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20:07 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest
20:07 hmmmm instead of data = vm.get_data()
20:07 hmmmm it might be a little bit slower but
20:07 paramat to clarify i don't particularly need control over the order, just curious. vanessa's problem is more important
20:07 hmmmm it'll be consistent and there will be no data loss
20:08 hmmmm VanessaE:  what is the logical issue with my solution?
20:08 hmmmm paramat:  no, but you brought up an important issue
20:08 hmmmm lol I'm supposed to be doing work right now :)
20:08 VanessaE hmmmm: if your solution requires any changes to any mod, it's already wrong
20:08 VanessaE that's the thing
20:09 hmmmm there is literally NO other way to fix this
20:09 VanessaE what?
20:09 VanessaE when the callback exits, the vm should be deleted/released/marked dirty, whatever
20:09 hmmmm yeah but
20:09 hmmmm the thing that'll set the VM to dirty would be the set_node() call
20:09 hmmmm hmmm
20:10 hmmmm I can't set something to dirty in between callbacks, you'd have to modify builtin to do that
20:10 hmmmm in run_callbacks() where the loop is
20:12 * hmmmm ponders if what he's about to do is threadsafe
20:15 hmmmm this invalidated flag would need to be in the actual VoxelManipulator object
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20:15 hmmmm since that's the only object persistent across all callbacks whereas LuaVoxelManip wrappers are not
20:16 hmmmm there is one LuaVoxelManip object for each callback that gets associated with the very same VM
20:17 VanessaE the thing is, you've got potentially dozens of other callbacks happening.  that's why I'm dead set against adding to the API to fix this
20:17 hmmmm then fix it yourself
20:17 VanessaE wat?
20:17 hmmmm i'm not a miracle worker
20:17 VanessaE wtf?
20:18 VanessaE look, this is simple - the callback happens, Lua gets its vm object, makes its changes, writes the results and exits, right?
20:19 VanessaE I mean from an abstract point of view, that's what happens
20:20 VanessaE when that callback exits, there should be nothing standing in the way of another callback coming along, twiddling some nodes on the now-written results (because the mod load order said "ok, this mod's callback comes next in the list")
20:21 VanessaE someone needs to at least remove "not a bug" from the issue report.  this IS an engine bug.  I've been over my code with a fine-toothed comb.  SPlizard has been over his code.  I've looked at it too.
20:21 VanessaE there's NO way this should be happening.
20:21 hmmmm are you sure you're understanding the actual issue?
20:22 hmmmm the mapgen voxelmanip contents stay the same as they were right after the core mapgen finished its job
20:22 hmmmm mod A is writing to the map with set_node()
20:22 VanessaE yes, I get that
20:22 VanessaE nononono
20:22 hmmmm this actually commits the changes immediately
20:22 VanessaE stop there
20:22 hmmmm what.
20:22 VanessaE you're misunderstanding me.
20:23 VanessaE Mod A gets a VM object and makes its changes.
20:23 VanessaE it writes the map.
20:23 hmmmm ok
20:23 VanessaE Mod B comes along with set_node() and makes its changes.
20:23 hmmmm sure
20:23 hmmmm now what precisely is the problem
20:23 VanessaE but somehow, mod B's changes, which took place *after* mod A's VM was written, are being *ignored*
20:24 hmmmm now hold on a minute
20:24 VanessaE and Mod B is NOT using a VM.
20:24 hmmmm how do you *know* that mod B was called after
20:24 VanessaE because Mod B depends on mod A?
20:24 VanessaE (opt-depend via depends.txt that is)
20:25 hmmmm did you actually print out to the console in on_generated and verify that, yes, mod A on_generated is called first, before mod B's?
20:25 hmmmm because the scenario in which you depicted is quite impossible
20:25 VanessaE yes, I did.
20:25 VanessaE we went over it and over it.
20:25 VanessaE because mod B (in this case it's plants_lib but the name is irrelevant) contains callbacks that depend on mod A's nodes.
20:26 hmmmm as long as mod A is the one doing the voxelmanip stuff, this should not happen
20:26 VanessaE right.
20:26 VanessaE but it does.
20:26 hmmmm I bet you're using voxelmanip wrong
20:26 hmmmm there's literally no other logical way for this to happen
20:26 hmmmm we're talking about logic here
20:27 VanessaE well SPlizard is in charge of the snow mod ("mod A"), not me, but I've looked at the code and I couldn't see anything wrong with it.
20:27 hmmmm link me?
20:27 VanessaE no one even answered his last question from a month ago :(
20:28 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=11&amp;t=2290&amp;p=142223#p142223 -- and the issue, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1354
20:28 VanessaE ah, that wasn't the link I wanted actually, but hey, that's a good place to start reading.
20:29 VanessaE (I meant to paste the link to the first page and ultimately the github sources, which are here:  https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod-snow/ )
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20:30 VanessaE I believe the code you'll be most interested in is here:
20:30 VanessaE https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-m​od-snow/blob/848f30543d08570368fd59df9​f97b8d6d5ee02f3/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L19
20:30 VanessaE this is before his hack to try to get around this issue.
20:31 hmmmm hmm
20:31 hmmmm well it seems okay so far
20:31 hmmmm what the heck is wrong with his perlin noise calls though
20:31 VanessaE but it's pretty simple.  he gets his vm object, modifies it, calcs lighting, and writes it.
20:31 VanessaE idk, I'm sure he's since improved his perlin code.
20:32 hmmmm why does he create a brand new perlin noise object for every single tile, why does he not use the perlin maps to begin with
20:32 * hmmmm scratches head
20:32 VanessaE the current version, post-hack is here:  https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod​-snow/blob/master/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L22
20:33 hmmmm the original mapgen code looks alright
20:33 VanessaE still the same thing, with write-to-map if'd for the hack.
20:33 VanessaE hm.  he generates assho----er iceholes ;-)
20:35 VanessaE now, you can compare that to plants_lib's calls if you want to, but they're basically the same deal - on_generated --> wrapper function --> bunch of get_node calls filtered through perlin and biome checks, followed by set_node, function calls, or spawn_tree() calls as needed, and then exit.  no vm's there.
20:35 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_mod​pack/blob/master/plants_lib/init.lua#L111
20:36 Calinou (unrelated to current discussion) I found this, may be worth reading for modders: http://blog.codinghorror.com/th​e-best-code-is-no-code-at-all/
20:37 Halo joined #minetest
20:42 Exio Calinou, make the code more modular using high-order-functions and without caring too much about the underlying hardware, abstract the problem with nice syntax, etc :P (?)
20:42 Exio function composition is quite nice
20:43 hmmmm vanessae, you don't need to ever call voxelmanip.update_map() if you're calling from a mapgen voxelmanip object
20:43 Krock sfan5, would you be so bored and may cross compile dillo-3.0.4 for windows? :3
20:45 hmmmm vanessae, could it be that there is more than one mod that uses voxelmanip?
20:46 VanessaE hmmmm: if there is, I am not aware of it, however in this case no I'm certain that only snow mod uses vm's in the tests SPlizard and I were doing.
20:46 VanessaE as I recall from the initial investigation, we or someone else narrowed it down to *just* snow + plantlife modpack
20:47 VanessaE and still it bugged out
20:47 paramat update_map is for the non mapgen object voxelmanip only
20:47 VanessaE maybe you could mention the vm.update_map() comment on the issue?
20:48 paramat sure
20:48 VanessaE I meant hmmmm  :)
20:48 VanessaE but whoever :)(
20:51 hmmmm really have no idea
20:52 hmmmm i don't see how it could possibly happen
20:54 VanessaE hmmmm: feel like trying it out? :)  just comment out snow mod mapgen_v6.lua line 307 (and the corresponding end at 324), and run it with plantlife and undergrowth modpacks (easier to see if it's working that way)
20:56 VanessaE unless he's added more hacks, what you should get is fairly plain ordinary minetest_game terrain, with snow biomes here and there, as if plantlife and undergrowth aren't even present.
20:56 VanessaE or rather, what you're likely to get.
20:57 VanessaE (what you should get is a wildly organic, natural, rough terrain with lots of plants and such)
20:59 VanessaE and no, plants_lib's depends.txt doesn't mention snow mod (because I didn't keep it after the attempt failed)
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21:09 Exio VanessaE, you use xubuntu, no?
21:09 Exio i need a dark theme, know any good one?
21:09 werwerwer joined #minetest
21:11 VanessaE I use xubuntu but with a light theme
21:12 VanessaE ("xfce-4.2" theme to be exact)
21:12 VanessaE maybe xfce-dusk might work for you
21:13 Exio my eyes already hurt
21:13 Exio and i'm using a not-so-light theme..
21:13 proller joined #minetest
21:14 * Jordach bagged 5 free games from steam
21:14 PenguinDad o_O I just had a download speed of 200KB/s
21:16 Calinou I'm surprised when I reach 500 KB/s
21:16 paramat left #minetest
21:17 Exio i'm surprised when i reach 30kb/s
21:17 PenguinDad Calinou: that's my_usual_speed * 8
21:17 jin_xi joined #minetest
21:18 Exio !c 500/8
21:18 MinetestBot 62.5
21:19 PenguinDad Exio: I was talking about the 200KB/s
21:19 Exio ,wa 200/8
21:19 Krock !c 22/7
21:19 MinetestBot 3.142857142857143
21:19 Exio !c 200/8
21:19 MinetestBot 25.0
21:19 Krock omg. it has decimals!
21:19 Krock *she
21:22 jin_xi sup
21:22 Jordach soap
21:23 Krock catsoup
21:25 Krock <3 http://www.whatsmyuseragent.com/
21:25 jin_xi you guise into dwarf fortress? new release is out
21:25 jin_xi it har really nice trees
21:25 jin_xi s
21:27 VanessaE but..but...moretrees :(
21:28 Krock lua (vm) generated trees are also nice
21:28 jin_xi well, ascii graphics leaf more to the imagination but they are huge, bloom in spring and all that seasonal crap and they have roots!
21:28 Jordach Krock, schematic trees are even faster
21:29 Jordach just ask BFD
21:29 AnotherBrick joined #minetest
21:29 Krock BFD, are they faster?
21:29 VanessaE <BFD> no fucking way :P
21:30 jin_xi it always amazes me how dynamic df's ascii graphics are. ever tried embarking on a beach? surfs up
21:31 Miner_48er joined #minetest
21:31 Jordach VanessaE, schems are raw nodes
21:31 VanessaE so?
21:32 jin_xi nodules crudes
21:32 Krock raw.
21:32 Krock raw meat node?
21:34 Jordach VanessaE, updated my media cache?
21:35 VanessaE YOUR cache? :P
21:35 Jordach well, you know
21:35 Jordach Sokomine actually waited on UDP
21:35 VanessaE I'll take care of it later tonight
21:36 Jordach thank you :3
21:36 Jordach under bfdmedia
21:36 VanessaE ehm...
21:36 VanessaE you know, you could do it yourself too :P
21:36 * Jordach doesn't have anywhere to put it for cURL
21:40 PenguinDad VanessaE: does this look correct to you? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sayfkMjUVvzt.png
21:41 VanessaE compared to what?
21:42 VanessaE oh.
21:42 VanessaE did you comment-out the two lines I mentioned?
21:42 ImQ009 joined #minetest
21:43 PenguinDad VanessaE: just one line is commented out
21:43 VanessaE what one line?
21:44 VanessaE you have to comment-out lines 307 and 324 of snow mod mapgen_v6.lua (and delete/re-generate the map) for the glitch to show itself
21:44 fu-fu joined #minetest
21:45 VanessaE those lines are a hack SPlizard added to work around this conflict.  all they do more or less is turn off the snow mod's vm if it's not actually in a snow biome area
21:46 VanessaE which ultimately is a little bit faster, but in theory it shouldn't need to be turned off at all.  nevertheless with those lines commented out you shouldn't be able to reproduce that screenshot.
21:46 Exio joined #minetest
21:46 VanessaE and with or without those lines, in a snow biome you should be able to see moretrees small firs.  but you won't because of the conflict.
21:47 crazyR joined #minetest
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22:18 PenguinDad I couldn't investigate anything except that his code quite messy :/
22:18 PenguinDad + is
22:19 VanessaE PenguinDad: well just comment out those two lines, delete the map, let it re-gen, and take a screenshot of the same area
22:19 VanessaE then show it to me
22:19 VanessaE I'll be able to tell you if it's still glitching
22:20 VanessaE (it's entirely possible for the glitch to have already been fixed in the engine but I doubt it in this case :P )
22:22 PenguinDad there was only one way for me to be able to see undergrowth and plantlife nodes naturally generated
22:22 VanessaE which is?
22:23 Exio4 \o/
22:23 PenguinDad I had to comment out line 316
22:24 VanessaE same difference.
22:24 VanessaE that'll just be the equiv of not having snow installed, really
22:24 VanessaE so you just experienced the glitch I was talking about.
22:25 VanessaE congrats :)
22:26 PenguinDad interesting but I'm going to sleep now
22:30 VanessaE hmmmm: still think it's being done wrong in the Lua side? ;)
22:31 Hirato_ joined #minetest
22:32 hmmmm I really don't know
22:32 hmmmm i stopped looking at it a while ago
22:36 Eater4 joined #minetest
22:38 VanessaE hmmmm: could you at least unmark the "not a bug" from the issue
22:38 VanessaE (and correspondingly, unmark it from "feature request")
22:40 Jordach tl;dr deathly spread IS OP
22:45 Eater4 VanessaE: can you try to do /op on isis.inchra.net #minetest
22:46 VanessaE Eater4: how?  I don't have op there.
22:46 VanessaE stupid services have been down forever
22:47 Eater4 VanessaE: try, you might have Oo privs there, witch means you can op anywhere
22:47 VanessaE nope.avi
22:48 Exio4 >.<
22:48 Eater4 only if shadowninja oped my bot!
22:52 Eater4 I have control over #botwar though
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23:14 Jordach 00:14:15: ERROR[main]: Map::setNode(): Not allowing to place CONTENT_IGNORE while trying to replace "mapgen:deathly_grass_2" at (-212,2,144) (block (-14,0,9))
23:14 Jordach ^ wat
23:19 SylvieLorxu s/deathly/deadly/
23:25 VanessaE Jordach: your node is undefined at that point.
23:26 VanessaE it places IGNORE if you try to set a node with a bad/typoed name
23:26 VanessaE (and then fails with that error)
23:28 twoelk for those runnung the windows version of the Minetest-mapper, you may want to test this https://www.dropbox.com/s/tji​2lhjknpcnmq0/wizapmapper.zip (just added some validity checking)
23:30 Exio4 :(
23:30 Exio4 i can't install moar stuff
23:46 twoelk joined #minetest
23:49 Exio joined #minetest
23:55 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest
23:55 luizrpgluiz hi

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