IRC log for #minetest-project, 2017-05-23

Time	Nick	Message
00:10	OldCoder	I see that Zeno` has left; so, I'm not able or, in fact, allowed, to respond.
00:10	OldCoder	Typical.
00:13	OldCoder	ircSparky, PM
00:47		garywhite joined #minetest-project
02:09	OldCoder	garywhite, Hi
02:32		Miner_48er joined #minetest-project
02:58		est31 joined #minetest-project
04:08		lumidify joined #minetest-project
04:54		LazyJ joined #minetest-project
05:03		lumidify joined #minetest-project
05:07		lumidify joined #minetest-project
07:56		Zeno` joined #minetest-project
08:48		yusf[m] joined #minetest-project
08:50		nanovad joined #minetest-project
10:15		srifqi joined #minetest-project
10:15	srifqi	Hey!
10:40	Zeno`	is OldCoder here?
10:52	Zeno`	OldCoder, I've read your comments within the 24 hours that you stipulated I must just read them in
10:52	Zeno`	OldCoder, I've also read your autobigraphy and all that.
10:56	Zeno`	I can empathise with what you've been through because your narrative closely resembles my own. I was also bullied and abused every day for many, many years. I lived in constant fear. So, yes, I can understand all that. What I cannot understand is why you are choosing to be a bully yourself. Surely having lived through that you know how it affects the victim(s). But you're doing the same thing. Doxxing people, humiliating them in public,
10:56	Zeno`	making threats.
10:57	Zeno`	You are, of course, free to continue to do so but don't say that you're doing it because of how people treated you in the past
10:57	Zeno`	I have never said a bad word about you before the last few days, but this is ridiculous
10:58	Zeno`	I counted you as a friend
10:58	Zeno`	But you are attacking and upsetting people who have done nothing to do. And that is not right.
10:59	Zeno`	And, if you want to take legal action against me then feel free because I've done nothing wrong. You'd be wasting your time and money and just making yourself look foolish.
11:01	Zeno`	I'm ashamed that I ever counted you as a friend.
11:24	OldCoder	Zeno`, I do not understand what you are talking about
11:24	OldCoder	You are speaking rubbish in an attempt to harm me
11:24	Zeno`	I am not attempting anything OC
11:33	OldCoder	Zeno`, shame on you
11:33	Zeno`	sigh
11:33	OldCoder	You have made false accusations. You have no conscience.
11:33	OldCoder	I will take appropriate steps
11:33	Zeno`	Take them
11:33	OldCoder	I am the one attacked
11:33	OldCoder	As you wish
11:33	Zeno`	Take the steps dude
11:34	OldCoder	Perttu ordered me to humiliate myself
11:34	Zeno`	Just take the steps against me
11:34	OldCoder	...
11:34	OldCoder	Zeno`, the steps will be as I have tried to explain to you repeatedly
11:34	OldCoder	Continue to put words in my mouth
11:34	OldCoder	And I will have grounds for a subpoena
11:34	Zeno`	<OldCoder> I will take appropriate steps
11:35	OldCoder	And I do do that sort of thing
11:35	Zeno`	^-- Take them
11:35	OldCoder	As you wish
11:35	Zeno`	thanks
11:35	OldCoder	You are most welcome
11:43	Zeno`	Can I make a suggestion OldCoder
11:43	OldCoder	Zeno`, I am busy editing. Will you mock and lie further? Can it wait, please?
11:44	Zeno`	If you think you're being attacked (and you're not) then just leave this channel
11:44	OldCoder	Zeno`, the attacks started for no other reason that that I refused to leave this channel
11:44	OldCoder	That was it. There was nothing else.
11:44	OldCoder	Perttu ordered me to leave
11:44	OldCoder	His justification was as follows:
11:45	OldCoder	"You are too detailed. You weird out people. You should leave."
11:45	Zeno`	There have been no attacks, but if you insist that there have been then it is your responsibility to leave this channel so that the alleged cannot happen again
11:45	OldCoder	I will never, ever, respond agreeably to being told that being autistic...
11:45	OldCoder	There has been nothing but attacks on your part
11:45	OldCoder	Continuous
11:45	OldCoder	Harsh
11:45	OldCoder	Unjustified
11:45	OldCoder	For two months now\
11:45	OldCoder	Make it stop
11:45	Zeno`	You have the power to stop the imaginary attacks
11:45	OldCoder	Imaginary? Troll.
11:46	OldCoder	I have listed the attacks
11:46	OldCoder	Who shut down
11:46	OldCoder	unk's world? You are a troll
11:46	OldCoder	Who did thta?
11:46	OldCoder	Was it Santa Claus? Troll.
11:46	OldCoder	Who deopped me in #minetest for saying that I might kick a troll?
11:46	OldCoder	Who brought in Freenode admins?
11:47	Shara	Wait - unk's world was 'shut down'?
11:47	OldCoder	Who has called me liar
11:47	Zeno`	I will reiterate. If you don't want people defending themselves against you then just leave
11:47	OldCoder	Shara, it was hacked
11:47	OldCoder	Zeno`, you did not let me respond
11:47	Shara	OldCoder: As where many, many servers.
11:47	OldCoder	But your filth of lies
11:47	OldCoder	means that the discussion is over
11:47	Shara	Including some of those under the control of those you have called out as attackers.
11:47	OldCoder	I am the one attacked
11:47	OldCoder	I will defend myself
11:47	Zeno`	OldCoder, if you take no action then you have no legal stance
11:47	OldCoder	You will not stop this
11:47	OldCoder	So I must do so
11:47	OldCoder	Note that
11:47	OldCoder	You did not
11:48	OldCoder	let me answer your question
11:48	OldCoder	Fraud. Coward. Troll.
11:48	OldCoder
11:48	Zeno`	OldCoder, as I have said, you can stop these imaginary attacks by simply leaving.
11:48	OldCoder	Zeno`, point #1:
11:48	OldCoder	The attacks have been continuous
11:48	OldCoder	Who shut down
11:48	OldCoder	unk's world?
11:49	Zeno`	(alleged attacks)
11:49	OldCoder	You will eat the word "imaginary" in due course
11:49	srifqi	Sorry to distrub, anybody knows when did Minetest changes it's mainmenu tabs to be "Local Game" and "Play Online"?
11:49	OldCoder	Point #2: You did not let me answer the question about leaving
11:49	OldCoder	srifqi, we can check
11:49	OldCoder	git logs
11:49	OldCoder	I will help in a minute
11:49	Zeno`	OldCoder, and what reasonable attempt have you made to stop these alleged attacks?
11:49	OldCoder	Zeno`, you did not let me answer
11:49	OldCoder	Your previous question
11:49	OldCoder	Why would I be fool enough
11:49	OldCoder	to answer another one?
11:50	OldCoder	Troll. Coward.
11:50	OldCoder	You do not
11:50	OldCoder	wish to hear the answer
11:50	OldCoder	Because you would then appear
11:50	OldCoder	Less than Holy
11:50	Zeno`	Because there is a simple way to stop the alleged attacks. You have chosen not to take that action.
11:50	OldCoder	Troll
11:50	OldCoder
11:50	OldCoder	Zeno`, you interrupted my answer
11:50	OldCoder	Why would I speak with you further?
11:50	OldCoder	You did not let me respond
11:50	Zeno`	Therefore you have no legal standing because you did not remove yourself from the situation
11:50	OldCoder	Troll. Coward.
11:50	OldCoder
11:50	OldCoder	That is rubbish
11:50	OldCoder	Both legally and ethicallyh
11:51	Zeno`	No, it's the law
11:51	OldCoder	I will never surrender
11:51	OldCoder	It is not :D
11:51	OldCoder	I will never surrender the channel
11:51	Zeno`	It is
11:51	OldCoder	If Freenode takes it
11:51	OldCoder	It is not
11:51	OldCoder	You are speaking rubbish
11:51	OldCoder	If Freenode takes it, that will simply be a debt
11:51	OldCoder	That will be called due
11:51	OldCoder	You did not let respond
11:51	OldCoder	Therefore cease harassing me
11:51	OldCoder	To ask a question
11:51	OldCoder	and not let me respond
11:51	Zeno`	Have you taken steps to remove yourself from perceived "danger"?
11:51	OldCoder	is cowardice
11:52	OldCoder	To ask a question and not let me respond is cowardice
11:52	OldCoder	Coward
11:52	OldCoder	I started to answer
11:52	Zeno`	Type more quickly then :)
11:52	OldCoder	and you did not let me respond
11:52	OldCoder	You have now crossed the line
11:52	OldCoder	Good Day
11:52	OldCoder	srifqi, can you be specific?
11:52	OldCoder	Where does this appear?
11:53	OldCoder	Zeno`, and F.U. regarding "danger". This is about 2 months of harassment.
11:53	OldCoder	Directed at this channel.
11:53	srifqi	In mainmenu, just run Minetest and then I saw "Singleplayer" , "Multiplayer", and "Server" have been changed to "Local Game" and "Play Online".
11:53	OldCoder	I will never leave it.
11:53	OldCoder	srifqi, wait
11:53	OldCoder	Hold on
11:53	OldCoder	Let me get into git
11:54	Zeno`	Have you taken steps to remove yourself from perceived "danger"?
11:54	OldCoder	Zeno`, F.U.
11:54	OldCoder	You are a coward
11:54	OldCoder	If I try to answer
11:54	OldCoder	You will not let me
11:54	OldCoder	Coward. Troll.
11:54	OldCoder	srifqi, I am gitting.
11:54	OldCoder	Zeno`, there is no danger
11:55	OldCoder	F.U.
11:55	Zeno`	You said there was
11:55	OldCoder	Liar
11:55	OldCoder	Troll
11:55	OldCoder	Liar
11:55	OldCoder	Coward
11:55	OldCoder	Liar
11:55	OldCoder	srifqi, wait
11:55	celeron55	OldCoder: don't use quotation marks when you are not quoting me
11:55	OldCoder	I am dealing with a troll
11:55	OldCoder	celeron55, specific, please
11:55	OldCoder	Can you be specific?
11:55	OldCoder	I will clarify or retract if necessary
11:56	OldCoder	Oh, nice
11:56	OldCoder	Perttu, you are a coward as well
11:56	OldCoder	Speak and then run away
11:56	OldCoder	I do not show respect to cowards, bullies, and trolls
11:56	OldCoder	srifqi, I am attempting once again to look into your issue
11:57	OldCoder	As you can see, I am being trolled
11:57	OldCoder	Right now
11:57	OldCoder	Therefore, patience is requested
11:57	OldCoder
11:57	srifqi	OldCoder, I'll wait.
11:57	OldCoder	Minute
11:57	OldCoder	I can patch the change for you
11:57	OldCoder	And will do so if possible
11:57	OldCoder	srifqi, I must get fluids. It is a personal issue. It will take 5 minutes or so. I can't quite stand up.
11:57	OldCoder	I imagine there will be more sh*t while I am away
11:57	srifqi	OldCoder, I just want to know when and who add it.
11:58	OldCoder	Then
11:58	OldCoder	Do you have Linux?
11:58	OldCoder	Or are you familiar with the Windows command line?
11:58	OldCoder	Never mind
11:58	OldCoder	I'll take care of it
11:58	OldCoder	Please wait, you are the first non-troll to speak here
11:58	OldCoder	and ask a real question
11:58	OldCoder	I think, in a while
11:58	OldCoder	This is valued
11:58	OldCoder
11:59	OldCoder	Please disregard the trolls
11:59	OldCoder	Perttu, when you are done being a coward, PM to explain the citation that you wish changed
11:59	OldCoder	Keep that sh*t out of this channel
12:02		hfranqui joined #minetest-project
12:04	srifqi	OldCoder, found it: 4dc97eb99fdbeec186cce5b03c64fb1df319d19d
12:04	srifqi	Thanks for helping.
12:05	Zeno`	pfft
12:05	Zeno`	dead channel
12:05		Zeno` left #minetest-project
12:05	OldCoder	srifqi, I did not help
12:05	OldCoder	srifqi, I am regretful
12:07	OldCoder	srifqi, I have tried to help people for 5 years
12:07	OldCoder	Tonight, I was not permitted to do so
12:07	srifqi	It's okay.
12:07	OldCoder	It is typical of the last 2 months
12:07	OldCoder	Please, ask again when necessary
12:08	OldCoder	I will be here, most days, until they sh*t upon this last scrap of dignity
12:08	sfan5	how many words do i need to write in here to get called a coward too? :D
12:08	OldCoder	sfan5, you are in the grey area. And, please, no more tonight. My next major post talks about you...
12:08	OldCoder	Objectively
12:08	OldCoder	You can vet it if you like
12:08	OldCoder	The word coward does not appear
12:08	OldCoder	In fact
12:08	sfan5	i invite you to try to dox me
12:08	sfan5	like you did with everyone else
12:08	OldCoder	F.U.
12:08	sfan5	will be fim
12:08	sfan5	fun*
12:09	sfan5	>F.U.
12:09	sfan5	can you spell that out?
12:09	OldCoder	I have had enough of the lies
12:09	OldCoder	I can but will not
12:09	sfan5	american politeness i see
12:09	OldCoder	Do you or don't you
12:09	OldCoder	Better than your attacks
12:09	OldCoder	Do you or don't you wish
12:09	OldCoder	to review and vet
12:09	OldCoder	the upcoming post
12:09	OldCoder	you have just referred to
12:09	OldCoder	Pro Tip:
12:09	OldCoder	The word coward does not appear
12:09	OldCoder	Only Perttu and Craig
12:10	OldCoder	have demonstrated cowardice
12:10	OldCoder
12:10	OldCoder	I note that you were one of those who I respected
12:10	OldCoder	STFU with the accusations unless you can be specific. After 2 months, I have had enough of the sh*t.
12:11	OldCoder	You are the bully - not quite a troll. Do not pretend to be superior to me.
12:11	OldCoder
12:11	OldCoder	sfan5, I must return to editing a placeholder post
12:11	sfan5	trying to find out peoples names, their pictures, their preferences, place of work/education is not doxing?
12:11	sfan5	if you say it isn't, then fine that's your opinion
12:11	sfan5	but nobody will agree with that
12:11	OldCoder	sfan5, I will comment in detail on the matter - from a legal perspective
12:12	OldCoder	In the full post
12:12	OldCoder	But I will say this now
12:12	OldCoder	This is your cowardice test
12:12	OldCoder
12:12	OldCoder	Minute
12:12	sfan5	you are not a lawyer you can't comment on the legal perspective
12:12	OldCoder	I have been accused of all sorts of sh*t
12:12	sfan5	i mean obviously you can
12:12	sfan5	but it's not going to be useful
12:12	OldCoder	Oh, can't I? With more authority than attorneys?
12:12	OldCoder	I f*ck attorneys
12:12	OldCoder	I have done so for 5 years
12:13	OldCoder	Want to ask them?
12:13	OldCoder	I'll give you their names and phone numbers
12:13		yusf[m] joined #minetest-project
12:13	OldCoder	sfan5, I wrote something about myself
12:13	OldCoder	In a letter that you received
12:13	OldCoder	Did you understand it? It would be boastful to repeat it here
12:13	OldCoder	The most powerful attorney
12:13	OldCoder	In the U.S.
12:13	sfan5	a letter?
12:13	OldCoder	Was the next dumber kid...
12:13	OldCoder	Perhaps it was filtered
12:13	OldCoder	Check spam
12:13	OldCoder	Was the next dumber kid in class
12:13	OldCoder
12:14	OldCoder	Yes, I can comment authoritatively
12:14	sfan5	i feel you have mentioned this sometime already
12:14	OldCoder	I paid for the right
12:14	OldCoder	In my life's blood
12:14	OldCoder
12:14	OldCoder	Now... here is your test
12:14	OldCoder	for cowardice
12:14	OldCoder	Moment please
12:14	OldCoder
12:14	OldCoder	I have been accused of all sorts of things. For 2 months. I am weary of it and will defend myself...
12:14	OldCoder	2 months of this sh*t
12:15	OldCoder	"Doxing" ? Fck. I have switched from nicks to IRL names for those people who have posted* their IRL names. And I have tried to IRL identify two trolls.
12:15	OldCoder	I apologize for neither step
12:15	sfan5	so doxing is okay if you think people are trolls?
12:15	OldCoder	I DO do doxing. I am very very good at it. I have doxed nobody in MT or Freenode yes.
12:15		Jordach joined #minetest-project
12:15	OldCoder	Read what I just said, sfan5
12:16	OldCoder	here is your test for cowardice
12:16	OldCoder
12:16	OldCoder	I have not even attempted to locate or identify anybody but two anonymous trolls. Are you able to cite any other such step? And does that step justify 1/100 of 1% of the lies that have been told and the attacks on this channel?
12:16	OldCoder	You may answer yes or no
12:17	OldCoder	The test for cowardice
12:17	OldCoder	Is whether or not you will provide and defend an answer
12:17	OldCoder	Craig and Perttu celeron55 will not
12:17	sfan5	am i able to cite? just look at your own website
12:17	OldCoder
12:17	OldCoder	Yes, go on?
12:17	sfan5	justification? doxing is never justified
12:17	OldCoder	Yes, go on?
12:17	sfan5
12:17	OldCoder	The answer is, then...
12:17	OldCoder	that trying to identify
12:17	OldCoder	wait, please
12:18	OldCoder	I am not well. Need to focus to type.
12:18	OldCoder	The answer is, then, that trying to identify anonymous trolls is inappropriate? Respond to the 2nd part. As this happened after this channel was attacked repeatedly...
12:18	OldCoder	How do you justify the attacks on this channel?
12:18	OldCoder	Speak
12:18	OldCoder	This is your test
12:18	OldCoder
12:19	sfan5	which attacks?
12:19	OldCoder	It is all on the website. As is my settlement proposal. Which I imagine will be sh*t upon.
12:19	sfan5	before you come with ddos or some randos server getting hacked: how do you know who is behind those?
12:19	OldCoder	It started with you
12:20	OldCoder	You told Shara, in effect, to go f*ck herself
12:20	OldCoder	It was a fit of temper
12:20	OldCoder	Understandable
12:20	sfan5	and how are you related to this?
12:20	OldCoder	But this all comes down to you 2 months ago
12:20	OldCoder	Shara asked me to help
12:20	sfan5	i can tell other people to fuck off as i please
12:20	OldCoder	Yes, you can
12:20	OldCoder	That was not trolling
12:20	sfan5	>she asked you to help
12:20	sfan5	this is surely not the help she desired
12:20	OldCoder	Shara is probably Jordach and Maciek
12:20	sfan5	sigh
12:20	OldCoder	Wait, please
12:20	OldCoder	Do not sigh at me
12:20	OldCoder	You asked
12:21	OldCoder	Will you allow the answer or not?
12:21	OldCoder	Not to allow it
12:21	OldCoder	is cowardice
12:21	Jordach	OldCoder, https://jordach.net/JD_2014_sql_logs.zip
12:21	OldCoder	Will you allow the answer?
12:21	OldCoder	You asked me
12:21	sfan5	answer whatever you want
12:21	OldCoder	Jordach, Hm?
12:21	OldCoder	Fine
12:21	OldCoder	Shara asked me to help
12:21	OldCoder	I do not know who or what she is
12:21	Jordach	one giantic zipball of history almost lost
12:21	OldCoder	Jordach, thanks
12:21	OldCoder	I am responding to sfan5
12:21	OldCoder	Who is being polite
12:21	Jordach	it also contains dialog between me and RBA
12:21	OldCoder	This is a nice change of pace
12:21	OldCoder	Fine
12:21	OldCoder	What was his relationship to Landmine?
12:22	OldCoder	Was he the older man
12:22	Jordach	no idea
12:22	OldCoder	Who Jeija, I think, spoke of?
12:22	OldCoder	Jeija - I think it was him
12:22	OldCoder	Said that there were two men
12:22	OldCoder	One older, one younger
12:22	OldCoder	The younger was Landmine
12:22	OldCoder	You
12:22	OldCoder	As well as MarkV
12:22	OldCoder	and Octupus
12:22	sfan5	you know
12:22	OldCoder	I do not know
12:22	sfan5	have you considered getting into a retirement home yet?
12:22	OldCoder	that the older man was you or Maciek
12:23	OldCoder	sfan5, now you are trolling
12:23	OldCoder	Thanks
12:23	sfan5	you keep repeating this incoherent accusations of random people being the same
12:23	OldCoder	Incoherent?
12:23	OldCoder	The b*tches in the troll group
12:23	OldCoder	ramble on
12:23	sfan5	none of which have any kind of truth
12:23	OldCoder	about how I am a liar
12:23	Fuchs	you know, this all would probably end better if you all just ignored each other,
12:23	OldCoder	Every statement
12:23	Fuchs	given there seems to be just throwing shit at each other
12:23	OldCoder	Fuchs, that is fair. I can't help responding.
12:23	OldCoder	I am trying to take it to a website. But I respect sfan5.
12:23	Jordach	i've stayed neutral for an eternity
12:24	sfan5	Fuchs: a little trolling is healthy i believe
12:24	Fuchs	sfan5: yeah, don't
12:24	OldCoder	Jordach, you have lived for an eternity
12:24	Fuchs	OldCoder: yes, I've seen that, and I told you what I think about releasing real names there without consent
12:24	OldCoder	Fuchs, he is the only one of the current trolls who I respect
12:24	OldCoder	Fuchs, I have not released a single name
12:24	OldCoder	Not ONE
12:24	Fuchs	so currently I really recommend that people just stop with the poking and yelling at each other
12:24	OldCoder	That was not on the profiles
12:24	OldCoder	So, respectfully
12:24	OldCoder	What are you talking about?
12:24	Fuchs	OldCoder: it was unwanted and you were told so, and refused to take them down
12:25	OldCoder	Fuchs, this is not Freenode business, is it? Am I in violation of a single rule?
12:25	OldCoder	I discussed this with kline
12:25	Fuchs	anyway, this bickering has to stop a bit, so I kindly ask you all to just ignore each other if otherwise you can't manage to be polite, decent human beings.
12:25	OldCoder	Fuchs, I agree with that
12:25	Fuchs	OldCoder: yes, you told me, and I replied to you
12:25	Fuchs	good
12:25	Fuchs	then I don't want to see any more of that, from either side.
12:25	OldCoder	Fine
12:25	OldCoder	Fuchs, this is now solely my channel. I don't want to kick or devoice people.
12:26	OldCoder	I will ask you
12:26	OldCoder	Should I or should I not do so
12:26	OldCoder	I love this channel
12:26	OldCoder	What it was made for
12:26	Fuchs	as long as it is your channel, you are free to run it as you see fit, within our network rules (that are very few)
12:26	OldCoder	I will be called bully for devoicing
12:26	OldCoder	But I agree
12:26	Fuchs	so if you prefer to kick people out, you can do so
12:26	OldCoder	It is better than what has happened
12:26	Fuchs	I wouldn't say it's the catalyst approach that we suggest
12:26	OldCoder	Hm?
12:27	OldCoder	Can you reword that?
12:27	Fuchs	but then in the end we leave the channel operators the freedom to run their channels
12:27	OldCoder	So, actually, I could allow fights
12:27	OldCoder	But you dislike them
12:27	OldCoder	and so do I
12:27	OldCoder	Is that about it?
12:27	OldCoder	And as you are assessing the situation
12:27		RobbieF joined #minetest-project
12:27	OldCoder	I should probably
12:27	OldCoder	RobbieF, !
12:27	OldCoder	RobbieF is actually nice :-)
12:27	OldCoder	RobbieF, what is up?
12:27	Fuchs	we (freenode) don't think that kicks or bans are a good solution in many cases, where talking to people respectfully would help. Kicking or banning can raise the channel temperature. However, we leave channel operators the right to run the channel as they see fit, we do not have restrictions there.
12:27	RobbieF	Hi OldCoder
12:28	OldCoder	Fuchs, but you have talked sternly about fights
12:28	OldCoder	I will deal with the issue and be objective
12:28	OldCoder	Is this acceptable?
12:28	OldCoder	Fuchs, I think we have talked in years past
12:28	OldCoder	You know that I respect the structure
12:28	OldCoder	And try to do what is right
12:28	Fuchs	memory and logs say no, the former might be wrong, the latter usually not
12:28	OldCoder	To close the subject, off-Freenode, I will do what you think is very very wrong
12:28	OldCoder	I will not discuss it at Freenode
12:29	OldCoder	Or involve Freenode unless you wish to PM about it
12:29	Fuchs	yes. Please refrain from publishing real names if people kindly ask you to, and don't reply to provocations. Then this should be all fine.
12:29	Fuchs	freenode. We spell ourselves freenode.
12:29	OldCoder	I will publish real names. Off Freenode.
12:29	OldCoder	I will discuss it with admins if they wish
12:29	OldCoder	But it is not freenode business
12:29	Fuchs	and the other side should refrain from provocations as well. Then this would be all fine, and people could talk like adults
12:29	OldCoder
12:29	OldCoder	Fuchs, I have offered a settlement
12:29	OldCoder	I will apologize for things
12:29	Fuchs	OldCoder: see, then we will see this as harassment, and if it goes on, take appropriate action.
12:29	OldCoder	I will stand down on things
12:30	OldCoder	Fuchs, kline said you do not assume authority
12:30	OldCoder	for off-Freenode sites
12:30	OldCoder	I stand on that
12:30	OldCoder	Will you go against this
12:30	Jordach	OldCoder, might be time to sit down and repent
12:30	OldCoder	principle?
12:30	Fuchs	we do not, but as the harassment is clearly taken to freenode, it becomes our concern.
12:30	OldCoder	Jordach, I have offered...
12:30	OldCoder	Fuchs, I am promising never to do that
12:30	Jordach	OldCoder, is this the person God would've wanted?
12:30	OldCoder	In my world, I will proceed as I deem appropriate
12:30	OldCoder	Jordach, I will ask that of each of the people who has tried to destroy this channel
12:31	Fuchs	then in ours, which is freenode, we will proceed as we deem appropriate.
12:31	OldCoder	Fuchs, one more time - do you assert authority over off-freenode matters? kline (the op) says no
12:31	OldCoder	Which is it, please?
12:31	Fuchs	this is not the first time we are in this situation with you, and thus if this continues, I consider this indeed a freenode issue
12:31	OldCoder	That is dodging the issue
12:31	Fuchs	OldCoder: it depends on the case
12:31	Fuchs	OldCoder: if a user persistantly creates issues within the FOSS communities we foster, it is a freenode issue
12:32	Fuchs	and as per that I'd take action
12:32	OldCoder	Fuchs, if I am klined after 5 years of service, freenode will not pay...
12:32	OldCoder	Creates issues :D
12:32	sfan5	muhhhh 5 years of service
12:32	OldCoder	I am the one attacked and trolled
12:32	OldCoder	sfan5, hush
12:32	Fuchs	there is no right to use freenode, it's a free service offered by volunteers
12:32	sfan5	kys
12:32	Fuchs	if we decide to remove people from that service, it is our right to do so
12:32	OldCoder	Fuchs, I will not stand down. And yes to your point. I will offer settlement.
12:32	Fuchs	lovely
12:32	OldCoder	Yes, but it is hypocritical
12:32	OldCoder	I will offer settlement
12:32	OldCoder	I have already done so
12:32	Jordach	OldCoder, i've been watching this unfold
12:32	OldCoder	I want the attacks on this channel unfolds
12:33	OldCoder	Jordach, PM, please
12:33	Fuchs	nah. We provide an environment to nurture free software development, this is at least the second case where people have to contact us due to harassment from your end, so as per that:
12:33	OldCoder	This should be down to Fuchs and me, this channel is for other business
12:33	OldCoder	The harassment is of me
12:33	Fuchs	if this continues, I shall consider removing you from freenode indeed.
12:33	sfan5	Fuchs: how much do you wanna bet for that this ends with lawyers involved?
12:33	OldCoder	Will you do nothing about it?
12:33	OldCoder	Fuchs, seriously
12:33	sfan5	(sorry for trolling but its quite fun)
12:33	OldCoder	Are you referring to the rock-star?
12:33	OldCoder	He came to my network
12:33	OldCoder	and talked about sex
12:33	OldCoder	to 9 year olds
12:33	OldCoder	Do I or do I not
12:33	OldCoder	have a right to protect the kids?
12:34	OldCoder	Must I say
12:34	OldCoder	that I was klined
12:34	OldCoder	for insisting
12:34	OldCoder	That adults not discuss sex with children?
12:34	OldCoder	Fuchs, that is a serious question
12:34	Fuchs	I'm 100% sure this is bullshit
12:34	OldCoder	No mockery at all
12:34	OldCoder	Wish his name?
12:34	OldCoder	That was the other case you mentioned
12:34	OldCoder	If I am klined
12:34	Fuchs	no, it was not
12:34	OldCoder	I will not DDoS
12:34	OldCoder	His friend
12:34	OldCoder	was the Pale Moon person
12:34	OldCoder	They did it together
12:35	OldCoder	The 30 year old, I forget his name
12:35	Fuchs	mhm
12:35	OldCoder	He threatened to kill me
12:35	OldCoder	In detail
12:35	OldCoder	And you threaten to kline me?
12:35	Fuchs	all I see from you are various baseless accusations
12:35	OldCoder	And the baseless accusations against me?
12:35	OldCoder	Where is your sympathy for that?
12:35	OldCoder	If I am klined
12:35	OldCoder	I will neither DDoS
12:35	OldCoder	Nor sue (I think)
12:35	Fuchs	no, I am telling you what the rules are, and that if I see more of this behaviour, I will k-line you. this is not a threat, this is simply enforcing our rules.
12:35	OldCoder	I will talk to Church groups
12:35	Fuchs	okay, enjoy.
12:36	OldCoder	Your rules, according to kline (the op) do not apply to my writing about what these people are doing
12:36	OldCoder	Off frreenode
12:36	OldCoder	You can override that
12:36	OldCoder	I understand and respect your right to do that
12:36	Fuchs	See above, this is a per case matter, and I told you what I think about the current case.
12:36	OldCoder	You have talked about prior harassment
12:36	OldCoder	Let me defend myself
12:36	OldCoder	What are you talking about?
12:36	OldCoder	I know of only one case
12:36	OldCoder	And that was the pair of men
12:37	OldCoder	Who talked sex to 9 year olds
12:37	OldCoder	"Baseless" ? I've got the logs somewhere
12:37	OldCoder	You have made up your mind
12:37	Fuchs	mhm
12:37	OldCoder	I want to speak with kline and the others
12:37	OldCoder	Who was it?
12:37	OldCoder	30 year old - Matt Tobin (name is not secret)
12:37	OldCoder	And the rock star
12:37	OldCoder	(I will keep his name private for now)
12:37	OldCoder	Not a very big rock star, to be clear
12:38	OldCoder	Matt Tobin threatened to kill me
12:38	Fuchs	okay, apparently you do not listen to me, so let me be clear:
12:38	OldCoder	That is a felony
12:38	OldCoder	Go on
12:38	Fuchs	if I see any more of this, with regards to minetest or others,
12:38	OldCoder	Of what ??
12:38	Fuchs	be it on freenode or on one of your websites
12:38	Fuchs	I will remove you from the network
12:38	Fuchs	this includes disclosing real names and accusations
12:38	OldCoder	Fuchs, do I have a right to appeal to the others?
12:38	OldCoder	sfan5, tell the others
12:38	OldCoder	That after this happens
12:38	sfan5	wat
12:38	Fuchs	feel free to, I would be surprised if you got a different reply from my colleagues, mind.
12:38	OldCoder	It will never end
12:39	sfan5	^ above line translated "I will continue to harass all of you"
12:39	OldCoder	kline seemed more reasonable, Fuchs. I am accused and you will not let me defend myself.
12:39	OldCoder	I will PM him. And see if he will back my position or not.
12:39	Fuchs	feel free to.
12:39	OldCoder	Subsequently, we will reach final conclusions
12:39	sfan5	"This person does not share my opinion, they must be unreasonable."
12:39	Jordach	OldCoder, have you considered that making a fuss everywhere has made more problems than not?
12:39	OldCoder	Jordach, it has to stop
12:39	OldCoder	It really does
12:39	OldCoder	It has to end
12:39	sfan5	you have to stop
12:40	Jordach	OldCoder, i'm trying to be neutral
12:40	OldCoder	sfan5, I am doing nothing
12:40	OldCoder	If I am removed from freenode, that will change
12:40	OldCoder	I have spent 5 years
12:40	OldCoder	Fighting IRL
12:40	sfan5	<sfan5> muhhhh 5 years of service
12:40	OldCoder	It will be just an extra chapter
12:40	OldCoder	sfan5, is this really the time to mock me?
12:40	OldCoder	Seriously?
12:40	sfan5	yes
12:40	OldCoder	Fine
12:40	OldCoder	Mock away
12:41	OldCoder	Fuchs, you have said prior accusation. I will notify who it is possible to notify that you klined me for chasing away child sex predators
12:41	OldCoder	And I will identify them
12:42	Jordach	OldCoder, from my experience: you can't stop them -- the worst ones are at Government level
12:42	Fuchs	as said, we both know that this is bullshit, so feel free to threaten.
12:42	Fuchs	it obviously doesn't help your case.
12:43	OldCoder	Fuchs, what is bullsh*t ? You say there are accusations against me. You will not name the accusers. Provide email address and I will send you the 20-page report I filed on the issue.
12:43	OldCoder	Will that do?
12:43	OldCoder	Or must I document that you refused to read it
12:43	OldCoder	And accepted accusations against
12:43	OldCoder	me
12:43	Fuchs	I think I made it clear what I expect from both sides
12:43	OldCoder	When I had filed a very very detailed report with multiple entities
12:44	Fuchs	if I don't see that happening, I also made clear what actions I will take
12:44	Fuchs	so I'll leave the rest up to you.
12:44	OldCoder	Fuchs, do you wish the 20 page report or not?
12:44	OldCoder	Or must I
12:44	Fuchs	no thanks.
12:44	OldCoder	Then will you
12:44	OldCoder	deprecate the prior accusations or not?
12:44	OldCoder	As you refuse to review?
12:44	OldCoder	Your answer will be documented
12:44	OldCoder	Respectfully
12:44	OldCoder	It is a long document
12:44	OldCoder	That will go to
12:45	OldCoder	every Church possible
12:45	OldCoder	as well as
12:45	OldCoder	every entity interested in
12:45	OldCoder	sexual harassment of children
12:45	OldCoder	on Freenode
12:45	OldCoder	Sorry
12:45	OldCoder	freenode
12:45	OldCoder	"freenode admin klines member of 5 years because child sex predator made accusations of harassment"
12:46	OldCoder	If you count the prior accusation, Fuchs, it is true
12:46	sfan5	the salt is real
12:46	Fuchs	I have zero interest in a documenation you made up and that has zero reproducabilty, we are aware of what happend back then and that this is bullshit. I kindly ask you to stop harassing and accusing people to your left and right, because that is not wanted on freenode.
12:46	OldCoder	Fuchs, I did not harass Matt Tobin. Do I not have the right to a hearing on that issue?
12:46	Fuchs	I made this clear and I don't want to have to say it again, so if I see more of this behaviour, in order to protect our communities we foster, I will remove you from the network, period.
12:46	OldCoder	The supposedly made up document
12:47	OldCoder	Has been through multiple attorneys
12:47	OldCoder	About six of them
12:47	OldCoder	I am no disgruntled child, Fuchs
12:47	sfan5	he doesn't get it does he
12:47	OldCoder	Remove me
12:47	sfan5	you're acting like one though
12:47	OldCoder	and it will be at least embarrasing
12:47	OldCoder	sfan5, please, can it not rest at least briefly?
12:47	OldCoder	Fuchs, I am doing what I can do here
12:47	sfan5	no, trolling is fun as you can see
12:47	Fuchs	it can, if you drop it and leave people be
12:47	Fuchs	sfan5: and you drop it as well
12:47	sfan5	Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯
12:47	OldCoder	I want the prior accusation removed. Or I want to defend myself. Is neither acceptable?
12:47	OldCoder	Fuchs, ^
12:48	Fuchs	OldCoder: no.
12:48	OldCoder	Matt Tobin sexually harassed children
12:48	OldCoder	The supposedly made up document
12:48	OldCoder	Has been through more attorneys than usually are involved
12:48	OldCoder	A rock star was part of this
12:48	RobbieF	heh
12:49	* RobbieF	sets down his popcorn.
12:50	* Jordach	knows something about what OC is trying to do
12:51	Jordach	by know i mean something far worse
12:51	Fuchs	I think you all should let him be as well.
12:51	nore	Jordach: what is he about to do, do you think?
12:51	Fuchs	he has a break now, so take a break from it as well, please.
12:51	Jordach	"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
12:52	Fuchs	and instead concentrate on doing great FOSS :)
12:52	ircSparky	+1 ^
12:53	sfan5	I'm pretty sure he'll not have a break and instead attempt to do something again
12:53	Fuchs	not on freenode.
12:53	sfan5	correct
12:53	Fuchs	as for off-freenode I'm afraid there is only so much we can do, so there the usual recommendation is to contact law enforcement if any laws are broken.
12:54	sfan5	dude
12:54	Fuchs	as said, I recommend to give it a break now
12:54	Fuchs	to let things calm down
12:56	nore	+1
12:56	Jordach	i will, it just seems i have to solve things
13:02	ircSparky	How long do you plan on having the k-line last, Fuchs?
13:03	Fuchs	ircSparky: hi, I'm afraid we do not discuss k-line details with third parties, sorry
13:03	ircSparky	OK, thanks
13:03	sfan5	as long as necessary which might be a very long time i'm guessing
13:11	RobbieF	So... everyone have a nice weekend? Long weekend here in Canada so today is my first day back.
13:12	RobbieF	And speaking of GREAT FOSS - I had a chance this rainy long weekend to polish off and release NEMS 1.2.1! http://baldnerd.com/nems if you're interested... a pre-built Nagios deploy for Raspberry Pi!
13:13	sfan5	Enterprise and Raspberry Pi are words that don't fit together in my mind
13:13	sfan5	but sounds interesting
13:22	est31	so many people working on gsoc this year: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/projects/?sp-search=Terasology
13:22	est31	for terasology
13:26	RobbieF	sfan5, read the "Why NEMS" section.
13:26	RobbieF	and because our migrator script automatically backs up the entire config, the worst case scenario is that you have to re-burn an SD card and import your config (takes < 5 minutes)
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14:17	sfan5	Fuchs: you might have to consider contacting law enforcement yourself seeing what he wrote on his website: https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/screencapture-minetest-org-1495548627084.jpg (screencap of minetest.org)
14:17	sfan5	sixth/seventh line in the first paragraph
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16:24	garywhite	sfan5: You do realize that he can read the logs...
16:24	sfan5	I do, is this a problem?
16:41	Hijiri	garywhite: he's listed as a founder
16:42	garywhite	But (I just found out) he was K-Lined
16:42	Fuchs	yes, k-lines do not affect channel ownership
16:44	garywhite	ah
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17:08	garywhite	welcome dax, losif
17:12	sfan5	how'd that happen?
17:12	garywhite	if he uses a browser like Opera, they have VPNs built in
17:13	garywhite	if I ever got k-lined, & I really wanted to get back in, then I could probably get back in a solid 8-10 times before I'd be out of options
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17:14	Shara	Don't even know if voice is still needed here but
17:14	* Shara	shurgs
17:14	dax	it is
17:14	Shara	:)
17:14	Shara	Hi and welcome, then
17:16	garywhite	losif wasn't OC, it was red-001, my mistake
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17:19	RobbieF	Shara, "shurgs" isn't a word, dummo.
17:19	Shara	I totally reserve my right to speak absolute and utter nonsense from time to time :)
17:20	sfan5	o.O
17:20	Shara	sfan5?
17:20	sfan5	was wondering about something else
17:20	Shara	Well not I'm intrigued!
17:20	Shara	now*
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21:02	RobbieF	have a nice evening all
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