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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-03-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 rubenwardy "You think you’re annoyed at the open source project that just pushed out a breaking change. You’re actually annoyed at your lack of deployment testing, inability to read documentation and unrealistic expectations of commercial-level support from volunteer maintainers."
00:08 rubenwardy sauce: https://twitter.com/MikeMcQua​id/status/969654593088098304
00:14 Calinou THIS ^
00:15 Calinou "no warranty" needs to be understood more. It's written into free software licenses for a reason
00:56 Fixer sauce!
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02:53 srifqi hi
02:54 srifqi Wayward_One: I stuck on this: "jni/src/script/cpp_api/s_base.h:38:10: fatal error: 'cmake_config.h' file not found".
03:06 srifqi Nvm, found it: #6894
03:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6894 -- Android build fails with missing header
03:13 Wayward_One yeah, i got hung up on that one too
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03:19 srifqi Another problem: "jni/../jni/src/gui/guiEdit​BoxWithScrollbar.cpp:151:2: error: use of undeclared identifier '_IRR_IMPLEMENT_MANAGED_MARSHALLING_BUGFIX'".
03:21 srifqi ^ Wayward_One
03:28 Wayward_One hmm, i don't recall encountering that one..
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03:33 Wayward_One i have no idea what could've caused that, sorry :/
03:33 srifqi Okay.
03:34 srifqi :(
03:39 srifqi Wayward_One: You followed each step on the dev wiki, right?
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03:48 Wayward_One yes, except instead of following the directions under "Obtaining and building Minetest, i git clone "https://github.com/stujones11/minetest.git" and then run "git checkout android-c++11"
03:49 srifqi I've done that, too.
03:49 Wayward_One hmm
03:51 srifqi Because it can't download irrlicht using svn, I decided to download snapshot and put it in build/android/deps/ folder.
03:51 srifqi "jni/../../CFileSystem.cpp:29:6: error: Compiling with __STRICT_ANSI__ not supported. g++ does set this when compiling with -std=c++11 or -std=c++0x. Use instead -std=gnu++11 or -std=gnu++0x. Or use -U__STRICT_ANSI__ to disable strict ansi."
03:52 srifqi ^ when building irrlicht lib.
03:52 srifqi Maybe I downloaded it wrongly?
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04:01 Wayward_One i really have no idea, sorry :/ i've never come across anything like that before. i wish i could be of more help
04:03 Wayward_One srifqi, what distro are you using btw, out of curiosity?
04:05 srifqi lubuntu 17.10
04:09 Wayward_One hmm.. i've compiled it on linux mint 17.3 and 18.x
04:11 Wayward_One unfortunately i have to go to bed now, but i should be available again tomorrow
04:23 srifqi See you!
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13:28 srifqi (Compiling Minetest for Android) Using stable-0.4 branch, I managed to go to "[armeabi-v7a] SharedLibrary  : libminetest.so".
13:28 srifqi ... and then: "deps/irrlicht/include/vector3d.h:79: error: undefined reference to 'short irr::core::roundingError<short>()'".
13:28 srifqi ._.
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13:43 IhrFussel "This server was not designed for mobile/tablet use, please use a PC or laptop to connect" <<< what a line... yeah sure why not? It's not like 80-90% of users connect through non-PC devices xP
13:44 Mr_Pardison Personally, I prefer to use a PC since the controls are much more user-friendly.
13:44 Fixer #pcmasterrace
13:44 Mr_Pardison Fixer: YES!
13:45 IhrFussel I will try to connect to my server now via a $65 Wiko phone
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13:46 Shara IhrFussel: which server was that?
13:46 IhrFussel Downloading media is really really slow on phones... 6% after 30 secs whereas my PC (same connection) takes 20 secs total
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13:47 IhrFussel Shara, https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=19744
13:48 Shara Ehh, nothing wrong with that
13:48 Shara My server isn't designed for them either
13:48 Shara If they can connect, great, if they can't.... well, I don't intend to reduce what I do to suit non-PC users
13:49 IhrFussel I'm not saying it's bad to mention that, but not caring about the majority of MT userbase is not good for server popularity and from that post it looks like the server wants to become popular
13:49 Shara Most do.
13:50 IhrFussel I honestly care about the mobile users and before I add new mods I look at the possible load they could add on mobile devices
13:50 Shara Personally I'd rather a couple of long term players who act like human beings and build great things, than a horde of name375s who wander around spawn without read signs until they time out
13:50 Shara reading*
13:51 rubenwardy looks like you've got some competition for the most amount of mods on a server, IhrFussel
13:51 Shara I'm totally fine for app users to play, but the point is that I refuse to limit the experience I try to provide for others due to them
13:52 Shara According to the server list, thye have only 137 mods, which I think includes MTG...
13:52 IhrFussel rubenwardy, connect ot my server and you will see how smooth is runs on weak devices ... I'm testing it right now with my new cheap phone I bought..it has 1 GB RAM and a quadcore ARMv7
13:52 IhrFussel Still downloading media though
13:53 Shara I guess they are working on it though
13:54 IhrFussel Many of my mods just add a few new blocks with no heavy functions/callbacks
13:56 IhrFussel Shara, I agree that the server shouldn't ignore stuff just because phone users would have trouble running it, but I want to make mine as accessible as possible
13:56 Shara And that's fine, but don't be too harsh on those who take a different stance
13:57 IhrFussel Media 100% let's see if it manages to init everything before crashing
13:58 IhrFussel The problem with Android is that it eats quite a bit of RAM already...but here we go I'm online on my server via a $65 smartphone
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14:00 IhrFussel ~ 15 FPS ... it's playable
14:01 Fixer i would rather play NES and GBA games on mobile, instead of this 15fps thing
14:02 Fixer Shara: treat those "name375s" as weather... they come on and go, leaving some or no trace =]
14:03 IhrFussel $65 is about the cheapest you can get when buying a new smartphone (not talking used) ... if we now consider that most people have a much more expensive one then we can conclude that phone should have absolutely no problem on my server
14:03 Fixer not really
14:03 Fixer most people buy cheap everything, including smartphones
14:04 Fixer only posers buy $600 smartphones =]
14:06 Mr_Pardison or those who have money to burn (rich ppl problems)
14:07 IhrFussel Most people still buy a somewhat better one...you cannot expect much from $65 ... I have a 800x480 screen, a 5 MP camera and the screen is TFT
14:08 IhrFussel And no the phone is not old, it's from 2017
14:08 IhrFussel It's just a budget phone, made for poor people
14:09 Fixer IhrFussel: 800x480, 5MP is enough for most
14:10 IhrFussel Fixer, the most annoying is the screen being TFT and not even IPS so if you look at it from the wrong angle it changes
14:11 IhrFussel gets brighter, negative image etc
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14:12 IhrFussel By the way has the default font size changed in 0.5.0 Android yet? The default is *horrible* on my screen ... I can barely see "drawtime" in F5 mode
14:13 IhrFussel And if this screen is (based on what Fixer says) what many people got then I understand why they don't manage to control MT properly
14:14 Fixer kids usually get shitty cheap phones :}
14:14 Fixer so if they loose them - they won't go to that labour camp
14:15 IhrFussel Wait it's not font size...it's gui_scaling
14:15 IhrFussel Or maybe both
14:15 Fixer maybe both
14:15 Fixer i remember an issue about small fonts somewhere
14:16 Fixer I'm not sure how those kids play it on 5-6" screens
14:16 Fixer thats insane
14:17 Fixer that's
14:18 IhrFussel My phone is 5" but the low resolution makes pixels a lot larger I guess
14:20 IhrFussel At least I can somewhat still navigate through UI ... but the buttons to switch the page are *very close* to the bottom of my screen
14:20 Fixer IhrFussel: how about 320x240 TFT? ::))
14:22 IhrFussel haha...now I also understand when many mobile players say "the chat is filling my screen"
14:22 IhrFussel Cause 6 lines occupy 50 PERCENT
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14:24 IhrFussel That needs to be fixed before 0.5.0 releases...I would even say it's probably a bigger issue than the controls
14:25 IhrFussel By controls I mean the arrow movement and button positions
14:26 Fixer IhrFussel: i would rather play it on larger screen, in my time I've tried playing this in https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e​n/thumb/c/c4/BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.​png/300px-BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.png in 320x240 on 3,5", did not like it
14:26 Fixer larger, aka full blown screen
14:27 Fixer iirc, new smartphones support connecting to a big TV, so instead of destroying your eyes on that 5" shit, just connect it to TV to that cast thing or how it is called
14:28 Fixer and buy small keyboard with a mouse I guess
14:28 Fixer tbh
14:29 Fixer i would rather buy a kid a Pi and hook it to big TV, stuff if with that great emus and stuff ;)
15:01 Fixer suse
15:22 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/ZIZWlYc.png :thinking_emoji:
15:23 benrob0329 🤔
15:28 Wayward_One Hi all :)
15:29 Mr_Pardison hello Wayward_One
15:31 CWz wello Wayward_One
15:36 benrob0329 Hi Wayward_One
15:36 Calinou I switched my KDE theme to Breeze Dark, I'm impressed that most applications still look fine
15:38 Fixer show us
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16:20 Fixer old minetest textures are eye burning
16:34 sfan5 eye burning? you mean nostalgic
16:36 Fixer cobble is worst
16:36 Fixer textures are very contrasty
16:41 Fixer it is also nostalgic
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17:29 sofar eye-burning textures sounds like a security vulnerability
17:31 Calinou one can easily host a server with very loud sounds and seizure-inducing animations
17:31 Calinou or pron in the spawn room :-)
17:31 sofar don't tempt me
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17:51 Fixer can you stream porn within minetest server?
17:52 Fixer or any video? audio?
17:52 Fixer radio?
17:56 sofar for the sake of making sure everyone knows, yes, you could indeed do this in crude ways
17:56 sofar easy enough to make an animated texture
17:56 Fixer nah, not that
17:56 Fixer real streaming
17:57 benrob0329 Fixer: no, and may it never be
17:57 sofar well no, depending on the quality you want
17:57 benrob0329 I dont want porn or ads being streamed into my game
17:57 sofar audio isn't possible
17:58 sofar but you can certainly do rudimentary animation
17:58 Calinou [GIF conversion intensifies]
17:59 Fixer okay okay I stop suggestions, this will turn badly
17:59 sofar I mean, if people think it's impossible to shock kids in minetest then they should be warned
18:00 Calinou you can also shock adults easily
18:00 sofar yes, just mention the boogeyman, or taxes
18:00 Calinou :D
18:00 Fixer us taxes are not that high
18:01 sofar in return, we also get nothing
18:01 benrob0329 You can scare teenagers with taxes to
18:01 benrob0329 o
18:02 Mr_Pardison taxes don't scare me.
18:02 benrob0329 They will :^)
18:02 Mr_Pardison they make me pull out a calculator and a lot of paper.
18:03 benrob0329 sofar: in-game taxes
18:04 sofar I've seen games that do that
18:04 Fixer minecraft towny has this
18:04 sofar you get "income" for playing
18:06 Shara Such things are a quick way to put me off playing
18:06 Shara I'd rather reserve things like that for reality
18:07 sofar towny wasn't bad iirc
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18:15 Fixer towny has optional taxes iirc
18:16 Fixer i play currently on server with towny
18:19 Fixer has some similarities to land rush
18:19 Krock Fixer, for minetest it already stops with "streaming", as dynamic loading of media is not possible (yet)
18:20 Krock well, duh.. if you really want you could use [combine for each pixel and each frame but your RAM wouldn't like it
18:24 rubenwardy my plans for a capitalist server included taxas
18:24 rubenwardy *taxes
18:24 Calinou CommunistCraft
18:24 rubenwardy you need it to take money out of the system
18:24 Shara ruben, but then it would have an actual use
18:24 rubenwardy true
18:24 rubenwardy the taxes would then fund public stores, partly
18:25 rubenwardy heh
18:25 rubenwardy public stores would probably suck, so naah for that
18:25 Shara I've just seen too many games use tax and so on pointlessly in ways that just seem to add unnecessary number work and no gameplay value or consequences
18:26 rubenwardy tax needs to be automatic and smooth
18:26 Shara introduce something if it will matter, otherwise....
18:26 rubenwardy for example, in shops it should do tax automatically and include it in the price
18:26 rubenwardy and for company income, it should be automatic
18:26 Shara yes, but then what happens to the tax?
18:27 rubenwardy it disappears
18:27 Shara That's boring then
18:27 rubenwardy or maybe goes to a government which can set server rules
18:27 rubenwardy haven't decided yet
18:27 Shara Second option would be better
18:27 rubenwardy the whole point of tax is that it takes money out of the system, and avoids hyper inflation
18:27 Shara Players can elect someone as an official who can decide what tax gets used for
18:27 rubenwardy in a game anyway
18:28 Shara rubenwardy: all that means if they caused too much money to appear to begin
18:28 sofar I'm thinking a good fascism server may work well
18:28 rubenwardy you want to give initial money to players
18:28 rubenwardy to make it easier for them to start
18:28 sofar force players to give up everything to fight "some evil"
18:28 rubenwardy or maybe that should be in the form of a grant
18:29 rubenwardy only available for buying machinery and locations
18:29 Shara rubenwardy: let players take out loans :D
18:29 rubenwardy why would you loan money to PlayerXYZ though?
18:29 Shara with eventual consequences if they dont repay... assuming the get caught
18:29 Shara they*
18:29 Calinou <sofar> force players to give up everything to fight "some evil"
18:29 Calinou mobile clients?
18:29 Shara heh
18:29 Fixer #pcmasterrace
18:30 sofar even better to pit players against players using misinformation, yes
18:30 sofar essentially horde vs. alliance
18:31 Shara I would like to see a server playing around with, well, any of these things, so long as it was implemented well
18:32 Shara but I think pretty much every MT server I saw playing with money of any kind just randomly had it appear in your inventory and so on
18:32 rubenwardy anyway, I best do coursework
18:32 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/Ld4UCxHsCD.png
18:32 rubenwardy ^ refraction with fresnel, TIR and beer's law
18:32 rubenwardy beer's law means that if a translucent material has color, the amount of color you see depends on how much of the material you're looking at
18:33 rubenwardy so jelly (as in the sweet thing, not jam you stupid americans, but I guess this applies to jam as well) is clearer the less you have of it, and more of the color the more you have
18:36 rubenwardy Shara: I guess they could take out a loan from an NPC, and it would basically be the same as giving them money on start in terms of economics
18:36 rubenwardy but it feels more realistic, and can be used later
18:37 Shara yup
18:38 Shara For example, other services might not be possible to use while they have the "in debt" status
18:38 Calinou beer's law, the favorite law of Belgium
18:40 Shara rubenwardy: anyway, I should try to not inspire you to get back into the game for the moment :D
18:40 rubenwardy lol
18:42 rubenwardy also, that image took 25s to render
18:43 rubenwardy rasteriser is a lot faster: https://i.rubenwardy.com/uuXg0UzI1V.png
18:43 rubenwardy 60FPS
18:43 rubenwardy anyway, enough offtopic
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20:13 atorian37 if I migrate from files playerbase to sqlite3 and getting this error, what does that mean?:
20:13 atorian37 2018-03-05 21:04:16: ERROR[Main]: An error occured during migration: PlayerArgsEnd of player  not found!
20:14 sfan5 some of the player files you had were invalid
20:19 atorian37 ok, what does that mean to the migration. is it done or not?
20:20 atorian37 can I check that before sarting the server again?
20:20 atorian37 *starting
20:21 sfan5 " An error occured during migration:" means it's not done
20:25 atorian37 ok
20:31 atorian37 thank you sfan! there has been a txt file in the players directory that should not have been there...
20:31 atorian37 2018-03-05 21:30:21: ACTION[Main]: Successfully migrated 710 players
20:31 atorian37 it's always nice to have your support here!
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21:45 Fixer sofar: in that Earth map there are few missing squares
21:45 sofar what is missing? vegetation/snow or something else?
21:48 Fixer sofar: those things https://i.imgur.com/2LDXZC8.png and https://i.imgur.com/RLAstby.png and probably others
21:49 sofar snow/vegetation cover missing I know about. it would cost me a lot of time to fix. Not sure about those locations though, do you think you can find me coords for those places?
21:50 sofar it's also entirely possible the original MC map had those holes as well
21:51 Shara Like looking at google earth anomalies
21:51 * Shara really hopes someone will put that thing on a server
21:52 sofar I would, if I knew what kind of gameplay people would want from it
21:52 Fixer sofar: it is like hole in the ground in such places with only water present
21:52 Shara sofar: hard to say, but would just appreciate a chance to wander round in it
21:52 Shara Being able to travel easily would be important of course
21:53 sofar nod, even a read-only world would be nice
21:53 sofar I was even thinking of making a mini-game
21:53 sofar like, "guess where you are"
21:53 Shara Yup, wouldn't care even if it was no interact, or was reset every so often to prevent spam builds
21:53 sofar and if you get it right, you get teleported to a random new place
21:53 Shara I would simply prefer the option to select places and look. But maybe the quiz could be optional
21:54 Shara Just feels like a thing that should be available somehow
21:54 sofar maybe an educational project?
21:54 Mr_Pardison sofar: there's a game called geoguessr. https://geoguessr.com
21:54 Mr_Pardison !title
21:55 sofar Mr_Pardison: that's where I got the idea from
21:55 Shara was what I was thinking of too
21:55 Mr_Pardison nice.
21:56 MinetestBot urllib.error.URLError: <urlopen error EOF occurred in violation of protocol (_ssl.c:600)> (file "/usr/lib/python3.4/urllib/request.py", line 1184, in do_open)
21:56 Shara You spelled it wrong? :)
21:57 sofar could just make it an optional game
21:57 Shara I'd prefer optional, simply because my interest is exploring it, not trying to answer questions
21:58 Mr_Pardison I'd so do the guess where you are thing since I like a challenge.
22:02 Fixer sofar: example https://i.imgur.com/0JVzsBO.jpg
22:18 sofar how deep is the hole? what's at the bottom? stone?
22:19 sofar weird for sure, if it's a conversion bug it'll be interesting to see if I can find the original sector and see what happens during conversion
22:19 sofar but it could just be a fluke
22:20 Fixer sofar: vertical scale is 1:100?
22:20 sofar dunno, did I not post that in the forums?
22:21 sofar ah no, I did not
22:21 sofar I think it's 1:100, sure, afaicr mt everest doesn't reach 100 nodes high
22:22 Fixer sofar: i'm really looking forward into doing literally mountain everast 1:1 in minetest
22:22 Fixer this will be epic
22:22 Fixer i love this
22:23 sofar I have this map at home:
22:23 Fixer sofar: 25,5 at buttom of that square
22:23 sofar https://images.bonanzastatic.com/afu/imag​es/6758/ec16/1f3b_5400788055/s-l1600.jpg
22:24 Fixer sofar: https://i.imgur.com/S0ommcx.png
22:24 Fixer sofar: unknown nyan rainbow blocks underwater here
22:24 sofar that's what the underwater temples convert to
22:24 Fixer we don't have nyans anymore :)
22:24 sofar send a patch to mcimport
22:24 Fixer x_x
22:25 Fixer i will create an issue I guess
22:25 Fixer sofar: and where are other parts of temple?
22:25 Fixer sofar: original minecraft map had those structures too?
22:26 sofar the way this map conversion works is complex
22:26 sofar the original MC map is "unpopulated" terrain
22:26 sofar when you load it into MC, it adds villages, temples, animals, trees
22:26 Fixer you can disable those
22:26 sofar but only in places you visit
22:26 Fixer iirc
22:26 sofar so in order to make this map, I've had to unexplore the entire MC map in MC
22:27 sofar (yes, you can enable or disable them)
22:27 sofar but you don't get trees without loading every block in MC once
22:27 sofar this takes like 4+ days to do
22:27 sofar I even automated it
22:27 sofar after the full explore, then I convert it with mcimport
22:28 Fixer i don't get it, is not there simple download of this map for MC, pregenerated?
22:29 Fixer that you can convert right away?
22:30 sofar you can do that, but, I explained already, you wouldn't get a single tree
22:30 sofar which is really ugly imho
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22:33 Fixer oh
22:36 Fixer sofar: eh, you probably needed to disable all those structures like temples and such before explore >_>
22:37 sofar 4+ days of work to redo it X_X
22:37 Fixer yeah
22:38 Fixer that sucks
22:38 Fixer at first I was... wth... bases in oceans?
22:38 Fixer player built? then I've recognised those NPC villages
22:39 Fixer sofar: and those square holes are probably induced by temples
22:40 Fixer FSX, FlightGear now Minetest has world to explore
22:40 Fixer have*
22:40 sofar well, maybe I'll redo the conversion without structures, but it was a royal pain lol
22:41 Fixer and don't forget to deal with that nyan thing
22:41 Shara sofar: get it on a server and probably worth the pain :)
22:43 * Calinou eats a pizza
22:43 Calinou nevermind, I was testing Quassel master branch
22:43 Calinou (I am not actually eating a pizza)
22:43 Fixer Calinou: and?
22:44 Calinou there's an option to color nicks in /me now :P
22:45 Fixer that mcKingley mountain is ~77.5 nodes
22:46 Fixer 6190 meters = 77.5 nodes
22:46 sofar y=77?
22:47 Fixer yes
22:47 Fixer 80 meters per 1 node?
22:48 Fixer how much was everest?
22:48 Calinou 8848 meters?
22:48 Calinou (out of my head)
22:49 Fixer in nodes on that map
22:49 Fixer sofar: we need some kind of coordinate table to find stuff on that world -___-
22:52 Fixer i generally run FSX to explore the world, it has pretty nice approximation
22:54 Fixer and Car as a plane :}
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23:21 Fixer aww https://i.imgur.com/Zo26XWf.jpg
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