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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-02-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:24 paramat sofar if possible could you review #5223 sometime?
03:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5223 -- Objectpos over limit: Avoid crash caused by sector over limit by paramat
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04:36 sofar sfan5: hey
04:36 sofar sfan5: about the fonts
04:37 sofar sfan5: lucida sans is proprietary and costs money in order to ship
04:37 sofar sfan5: so, if you really, REALLY, R E A L L Y  want to keep non-freetype fonts around
04:37 sofar then you, Y O U  better come up with a solution that is better than mine
04:38 sofar that's enough of that
04:38 sofar cut the cord and move on, please
04:38 sofar as far as I can see it we're in fucking deep trouble for shipping that file without a proper license anyway
04:38 VanessaE <random luddite>  But...but... muh pixels!
04:38 VanessaE :)
04:39 sofar maybe people don't understand the legal issue
04:39 sofar and I don't want to put it in writing in github
04:40 VanessaE *looks at Lucida license*
04:40 VanessaE jeez.
04:41 VanessaE You may embed the Fonts into electronic documents or graphic image files for personal, academic, or internal business use provided that (a) only subsets of the Fonts, consisting only of the characters used in the document or file, are embedded; and (b) the electronic documents or graphic files are distributed in a format that allows only printing and viewing, and prohibits editing or modifying the text
04:41 VanessaE so minetest is in the clear, because they're distributed in an almost-useless irrlicht image format
04:41 sofar not the right license
04:41 sofar no
04:41 sofar "electronic documents or graphic image files"
04:42 sofar that's not what minetest is
04:42 sofar minetest is a program
04:42 sofar embedding in a mobile app is for a fee
04:42 VanessaE hm.
04:42 VanessaE either way, it's time to get rid of them
04:42 sofar "electronic documents or graphic image files" means "pdf or picture"
04:43 sofar like, you make a screenshot of a word document
04:44 VanessaE doesn't say that in the license
04:44 VanessaE they have to expressly define what an image is or isn't in the legalese
04:44 sofar if the use is not covered in the license, the license does not grant the use
04:44 VanessaE since they didn't, "image" is open to interpretation
04:44 sofar https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/mic​rosoft/lucida-sans/licensing.html
04:44 sofar App: for embedding in mobile applications
04:44 sofar Select this license type when you are developing an app for iOS, Android, or Windows Phone, and you will be embedding the font file in your mobile application’s code.
04:44 sofar This font's app license is:
04:44 sofar Pay Once
04:44 VanessaE I'm on lucidafonts.com
04:45 VanessaE pretty sure it is the source of the font :P
04:45 sofar according to wikipedia, microsoft owns the cont
04:45 sofar https://www.microsoft.com/typog​raphy/fonts/family.aspx?FID=174
04:45 VanessaE Microsoft owns B&H?
04:46 sofar 35$ to use in a game
04:46 sofar on catalog.monotype.com
04:46 sofar You can use it for
04:46 sofar Use fonts in your game
04:46 sofar License is for specific game titles
04:46 sofar Based on platforms supported
04:46 sofar 35$
04:47 VanessaE this page disagrees with you... http://lucidafonts.com/pages/trademark
04:47 sofar wait, weird cart system
04:48 sofar 750$ for a single mobile game license
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04:50 sofar VanessaE: you did read the EULA that that trademark page refers to?
04:50 VanessaE skimmed over it yes
04:50 sofar it clearly says: one use only, no distribution
04:50 sofar plus we don't ship the EULA
04:51 sofar so, again, all our users are in violation
04:51 sofar ... this can all go away in 3 minutes of time ...
04:52 sofar "you many not embed the Fonts in an application or app for mobile phones, electronic tablets, tablet computers, or similar platforms"
04:52 VanessaE I agree with you 100% to get rid of them, but I think you're overstating the danger a little :)
04:53 sofar well to me the risk is real, since I can't associate myself with OSS projects that are in clear license violation
04:53 VanessaE the worst they'd have done, most likely, since this isn't a commercial product, is send someone a nastygram ordering the fonts removed and deleted.
04:53 VanessaE (which is what you're proposing to do anyway)
04:53 sofar I can lose my job if this doesn't get resolved and I become complacent
04:54 sofar my employer will not tolerate it
04:54 sofar end of story
04:54 sofar if someone wants to offer a different legal interpretation? I can't accept that.
04:54 sofar too much personal risk for me
04:54 VanessaE don't you have commit access anyway?
04:55 sofar and sfan5 would just revert it
04:55 VanessaE hm
05:03 sofar meh
05:03 sofar it doesn't help that nobody gives a shit
05:04 VanessaE I'm sure people care but you know how it can be here.
05:06 sofar yeah, 9pm pst and its just you in here and this weird echo
05:08 VanessaE so ping a few people :)
05:18 Zeno` hmm
05:18 sofar you know, FINE, I'm more interested in fixing the license issues than removing freetype
05:18 sofar I'm submitting a patch that keeps old deadweight code around just so I can convince one dev
05:19 VanessaE no
05:19 Zeno` can't we just use a different font?
05:19 sofar it's an old bitmap font
05:19 sofar generated with a tool that segfaults for me
05:19 sofar no
05:19 sofar NO
05:19 Zeno` bitmap fonts are not (C)-able
05:19 sofar I am not wasting my time on that tool
05:19 sofar it's from 2003
05:20 VanessaE Zeno`: maybe not but they can be (and are)_ trademarked
05:20 Zeno` the typeface, yeah
05:20 VanessaE from a legal-we'll-fuck-you-over standpoint, it may as well be copyright.
05:21 Zeno` so... we cannot use a different font because...?
05:21 VanessaE because they're very difficult to create in a form Minetest/irrlicht can use
05:21 VanessaE see above about that segfaulting tool
05:21 VanessaE I've used it also
05:21 VanessaE it's a right pain in the ass.
05:21 sofar hey lets use the old version, under wine!
05:21 sofar yeah, that'll look great
05:21 VanessaE sofar: you know...come to think of it, I might have done just that.
05:22 sofar for exactly who? the 0 users that are holding out on freetype?
05:22 sofar wtf?
05:22 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4436
05:22 VanessaE maybe you can use those, idk
05:22 Zeno` who does NOT use freetype?
05:22 VanessaE Zeno`: only luddites, really.
05:22 sofar sfan5, apparently :)
05:23 VanessaE sofar: note this, https://github.com/kahrl/irrtum
05:23 VanessaE THAT is what I used
05:24 VanessaE (I'm a little surprised my old forum thread is still there)
05:24 Zeno` oh I see the issue now. irrlicht format... of course
05:25 VanessaE according to The Great Wikipedia, Dejavu fonts are public domain.
05:25 sofar deja vu is fine, yes
05:25 sofar it's the other 4 that are bad
05:26 VanessaE so you're more than welcome to use the bitmaps I put in that forum post if you really must keep bitmap fonts to keep sfan5 et al. happy :)
05:26 sofar you know
05:26 sofar fuck that
05:26 sofar that's just irresponsible
05:26 VanessaE heh ok
05:31 sofar sorry, walked away from keyboard for a bit to cool off
05:32 VanessaE no worries.
05:34 VanessaE this is the part where sapier is supposed to pop in and say something snarky... ;)
05:35 sofar at work, if we would make a mistake like this, what do you think would happen
05:35 VanessaE (if memory serves, he created all of those variously-sized bitmaps, but I don't remember why)
05:35 sofar we'd be at 20 news sites lyncning my company
05:36 sofar screaming we're the baddies
05:36 VanessaE well for sure, someone would be fired I suppose
05:36 VanessaE and someone else would be sued
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06:47 OldCoder Wait
06:47 OldCoder There are loads of compatible fonts
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07:15 celeron55 how about just remove the font so the ones who use bitmap fonts have some motivation to make one
07:19 sofar that's what the new patch does
07:19 sofar it leaves the only font that is ok to leave as is
07:29 OldCoder
07:31 OldCoder "run_at_every_load = 1" doesn't work for LBMs. If I force a load by changing an LBM name randomly on every run of a _game...
07:31 OldCoder will that pile up storage of LBM timestamps or will old timestamps disappear?
07:31 OldCoder
07:31 OldCoder sofar, VanessaE, celeron55 ?
07:38 sofar boolean, not '1'
07:38 sofar 'true'
07:38 celeron55 in Lua, 1 == false
07:38 celeron55 because lol
07:38 Zeno` sofar, I'm ok with it
07:38 Zeno` that patch
07:38 celeron55 or, i mean; that statement is not true
07:39 sofar #5230
07:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5230 -- FreeType: address font license issue, remove non-freetype builds. by sofar
07:39 Zeno` yes
07:39 Zeno` if everything is fine with it, +1 from me
07:39 sofar actually subject is wrong
07:39 sofar it doesn't remove non-freetype builds
07:39 Zeno` *nod*
07:39 Zeno` just one font left. that's fine I think
07:39 Zeno` for the 2 players who don't use freetype :)
07:40 celeron55 eh, i mean, 1 != true
07:40 sofar Zeno`: I'll likely push later, just before bed
07:40 sofar get it over with
07:40 Zeno` celeron55, that caught me a few weeks ago. Had be stumped for hours
07:40 Zeno` s/be/me
07:40 sofar sfan5 pretty much ok'd it in this form
07:40 Zeno` ok, so two +1's :)
07:41 sofar $ lua
07:41 sofar > 1 == false
07:41 sofar false
07:41 sofar lol
07:41 sofar 1 is neither true nor false in my lua
07:41 celeron55 yes, it's neither
07:41 celeron55 it's completely logical as the type system is very simple
07:41 celeron55 if types don't match, the comparison doesn't matchj
07:42 celeron55 and numbers aren't booleans
07:42 celeron55 most languages complicate it further from that
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10:26 nrzkt seems i forget to publish mt 0.4.15 on playstore, if i remember we had some gradle issues
10:26 nrzkt i fixed it in master but after release if i remembered
10:27 nrzkt currently there are 4412 installations
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11:29 sfan5 <sofar> sfan5 pretty much ok'd it in this form
11:29 sfan5 i didn't
11:29 sfan5 also i'm wondering why we arent allowed to use droidsansfallback
11:35 sfan5 also it's called fallback font for a good reason
11:35 sfan5 you just broke support of chinese & japanese
11:42 sfan5 #5231
11:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5231 -- Chinese & Japanese characters don't appear
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14:55 crazyR is there anyway to get a list of curently loaded chunks?
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16:23 red-001 is #5231 for non-freetype builds or all builds?
16:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5231 -- Chinese & Japanese characters don't appear
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16:45 sofar sfan5: I read your comment above
17:09 sfan5 red-001: it's broken in all builds, however for non-freetype builds it's not (really) fixable
17:20 sofar would putting the fallback font back fix it?
17:21 sofar non-freetype bitmap fonts have a really limited amount of characters
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17:51 sfan5 <sofar> would putting the fallback font back fix it?
17:51 sfan5 yes
17:51 sofar ok, I'll make a patch when I get out of work
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19:54 paramat est31 nerzhul nore rubenwardy please can anyone review this simple crashfix #5223 ?
19:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5223 -- Objectpos over limit: Avoid crash caused by sector over limit by paramat
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22:34 red-001 I though this was fixed? #5232
22:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5232 -- Falling nodes loses their meta info
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