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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-12-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:35 jordan4ibanez How would I set a player's animation/visual size?
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00:44 jordan4ibanez Oh here we are https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/default/player.lua#L56
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11:59 Zeno` grr, where is paramat
12:00 sfan5 not here
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12:02 * Zeno` puts on his body armour
12:02 Zeno` I is gonna have to be prepared for battle
12:03 * Zeno` rolls out the trebuchets
12:04 An0n3m0us lol
12:09 * Krock gives Zeno` trebuchets:stone -1
12:09 An0n3m0us lol
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12:10 Zeno` I am using trebuchets:boilingoil
12:13 * Zeno` make some chips in the boiling oil while he waits for the start of battle
12:13 * An0n3m0us jumps into the catapult
12:14 Zeno` ummm... launch trebuchet number 44
12:14 * Zeno` watches An0n3m0us fly off into the distance
12:14 An0n3m0us yeaaaaaaaaa
12:14 An0n3m0us oooofffff
12:14 An0n3m0us ouch!
12:19 Zeno` you landed in a cow pattie
12:20 Zeno` could have been worse I guess
12:20 An0n3m0us yea
12:20 Zeno` cow pooh aint to bad and it cushioned your fall
12:20 An0n3m0us lol
12:33 An0n3m0us Sanders: ping
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12:56 An0n3m0us Sanders: ping
12:59 sfan5 please keep the casual chatting to #minetest
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14:50 Zeno` who and when did someone merge a commit that stopped saplings being able to grow using torches?
14:50 An0n3m0us they did?
14:50 Zeno` Apparently
14:51 Zeno` And I intend to revert it
14:51 rubenwardy #4806
14:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4806 -- Add search to advanced settings by rubenwardy
14:53 Zeno` we should not make such huge changes that it changes and destroys something that has been possible in minetest since day 1
14:53 Zeno` a lot of people grow forests underground using torches and they're amazing
14:55 Zeno` and if paramat can't see that then he's a hypocrite
14:55 rubenwardy there's mese torches for that
14:55 sfan5 what is that
14:55 Zeno` no, there's not. Normal torches have always been enough
14:56 est31 are mese torches actually better?
14:56 Zeno` rubenwardy, we can't break existing worlds!
14:56 est31 Zeno`: we had to
14:56 est31 due to a bug
14:56 Zeno` rubbish
14:56 est31 underground farming is not possible anymore
14:56 Zeno` make torches brighter if necessary
14:56 est31 light calculations were messed up
14:56 est31 so light values needed to be capped
14:57 est31 you cant make torches that are as bright as sunlight now
14:57 est31 but thats okay
14:57 Zeno` est31, so what happened is that something that many, many, many players did to create wonderful environments was just removed?
14:57 est31 Zeno`: I agree with you its kinda sad
14:58 est31 Zeno`: if anything should be changed, its mtgame + the mods
14:58 Zeno` it's more than sad, it's tragic
14:58 est31 the engine has the right I think to do small adjustment like these
14:58 est31 its not the final end of underground farms, if modders just set the required light values lower, it will still work
14:58 Zeno` those underground forests people created were enchanting and magical and just amazing
14:59 est31 yes, I did too
14:59 est31 built underground farms as well
14:59 est31 but its more an mtgame discussion, so fight it out with the mtgame devs :)
14:59 est31 like rubenwardy or paramat
15:01 Zeno` the change has essentially removed a potential "realm" from the game
15:02 Zeno` and makes it 50x more boring
15:03 Zeno` paramat is always blocking PRs that he deems "are not in the spirit of minetest" and yet this was acceptable?
15:03 * Zeno` shakes his head
15:15 Zeno` the change breaks another thing as well
15:15 Zeno` it makes building a path to the centre of the world impossible
15:15 Zeno` to dig to the centre of the world you need a source of wood
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15:16 Zeno` and you could do it with no mods before this absurd change
15:17 Zeno` source of wood and seeds*
15:17 Zeno` now it must be impossible without mods
15:17 Zeno` it changes the game completely
15:19 Zeno` mese lamps are not a solution... they're ugly and don't fit into a "natural looking" environment
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15:39 juhdanad There could be a 'small torch' for dimmer lighting.
15:40 juhdanad And normal torch became more expensive then.
15:41 Zeno` that might work if the normal torch can grow saplings
15:41 Krock trees need >= 13
15:41 juhdanad Yes, normal torches can remain untouched if we introduce another variant.
15:42 juhdanad And normal torch would cost two coals from now on to compensate the brighter visible light.
16:01 Fixer est31: underground farming is possible, it works with mese lamps
16:01 Fixer est31: crops grow near the lamps, same for saplings
16:02 Fixer at least it worked when I checked it in 0.4.14-dev
16:02 Fixer in my underground liquid test world
16:04 Fixer and test was done near PR4061 introduction time
16:08 Zeno` the rarity of mese and the ugliness of mese lamps makes it a non-viable workaround
16:08 Zeno` i.e. the "cost" difference between torches and mese lamps is way too large
16:08 Fixer i have even special farm concepts for mese lamps, will post
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16:09 Zeno` why? The solution is to make it possible once again for torches to grow saplings
16:11 Zeno` saplings/seeds
16:11 Zeno` IMO making torches not able to grow plants has ruined the game
16:13 Zeno` it's changed the game in such a drastic way that it's just not "right"
16:13 Fixer Zeno`: https://i.imgur.com/YxD7dBi.jpg
16:13 Zeno` Fixer, those don't look natural
16:14 Zeno` besides you cannot find enough mese to make it practical!
16:15 Zeno` i.e. two major things that used to be a "thing" in minetest are no longer possible
16:15 Zeno` a) digging to the centre of the world; and b) creating those magical underground forests
16:16 Fixer Zeno`: my scheme is practical kind for people who like it cheap, thats cheapest I think %)
16:16 Zeno` mese is "cheap"?
16:17 Fixer wait a sec
16:18 Fixer Zeno`: as example, I have 56 mese blocks on JT2 server
16:18 Fixer thats a looot of lamps
16:19 Fixer 168 mese lamps from this
16:19 Zeno` even digging to the centre of the world I can guarantee you won't have enough mese to make the necessary underground forests that you *need* at intervals to make tools
16:19 Zeno` how do I know? I've done it
16:20 Fixer usually I take 50 wood with me and few starting diamond picks and it goes fine, it is enough to mine, all you need is to take some wood
16:20 Zeno` Fixer to the centre of the world?
16:20 Zeno` you can't carry enough wood!
16:21 Zeno` no where near enough
16:21 Zeno` so you would need mods to make it achievable
16:21 Zeno` therefore the game is broken
16:23 Zeno` to build a mine (that you can walk back up to the surface again) to the centre of the world takes at least 3 people about 9 months
16:24 Zeno` you cannot carry that much wood, believe me
16:47 juhdanad Yay! I successfully nested 7 for loops! Is it acceptable by the code style guidelines?
16:56 Krock the code style guidelines tell you how code should look like, not how fast it should be
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17:30 An0n3m0us this guy is spammin https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20335
17:30 An0n3m0us same as wolfcrync
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17:34 sfan5 for fucks sake
17:34 sfan5 An0n3m0us: do you know what the report button is for
17:35 An0n3m0us no
17:35 An0n3m0us I don't have an acount
17:38 An0n3m0us what to do then?
17:48 An0n3m0us thanks sfan5
17:55 sfan5 don't complain in both channels at once
17:55 sfan5 one is enough
17:56 An0n3m0us sure
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22:24 sofar ugh tarvis is failing on `sw` translation issues (seriously)
22:26 Calinou #noracism
22:27 sfan5 we fixed that just be fore the release...
22:28 sofar Calinou: ?
22:28 Calinou complaining about unpopular translations is not politically correct ;)
22:28 sofar sfan5: hmm, maybe it just needs a retrigger then
22:28 sfan5 which build did fail?
22:28 sofar Calinou: it's not racism, it's in general bad that travis fails on *any* translation
22:28 sofar so fuck off with the political correctness
22:29 garywhite May I suggest that we all calm down
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22:33 sofar may I suggest we don't assume people are racist from 9 words?
22:33 sofar everyone has a bias, pointing out one that is irrelevant and unproven is destructive
22:34 garywhite i agree
22:34 sfan5 how about we solve the problem and you tell me which build failed
22:35 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4873
22:38 sfan5 you need to rebase your branch onto the revision that has the fix
22:42 sofar pushed
22:43 celeron55 i'm so racist none of you can even compete
22:43 celeron55 now get back to something useful
22:44 sofar I'm attempting to work around a broken 2.4Ghz radio in my wifi router, is that useful?
22:44 celeron55 yes
22:45 Fixer wth this has to do with sw translation?
22:45 Fixer sofar: new changes in lightredo?
22:45 sofar nope
22:45 celeron55 i've been shifting through 10000 lines of disassembled Z80 code from a 30 year old toy synthesizer keyboard for the past few days
22:46 celeron55 i think this is useful
22:47 celeron55 also turns out a fx2+sigrok logic analyzer combo is fairly useful when trying to understand what a Z80 based system is trying to do
22:47 * Fixer poker_face
22:48 Fixer this is interesting! https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4274
22:48 Fixer possible fix found
22:48 celeron55 they've used some kind of a bit flag based programming paradigm; this code just calls some subroutine and then a process of checking flags in random places takes place within a surprisingly large call tree
22:48 celeron55 it's like a puzzle but almost impossible and weeks long
22:49 garywhite good luck with the code c55
22:49 celeron55 i just wanted to play bass on the poor thing and it escalated a bit
22:50 celeron55 all i'm really saying is, just fix your travis and C++ problems; they aren't even problems compared to this 8)
22:51 celeron55 hmm, i guess i could just paste my current work on this disassembly
22:52 sofar with less than 64k ram, using memory in traditional ways is often wasteful
22:52 juhdanad Are VoxelManipulators supposed to contain ignore nodes where VOXELFLAG_NO_DATA is not set?
22:52 celeron55 https://gist.github.com/celeron55​/68893422bc43f9c142fefb1762c7dd3f
22:53 sofar 16k
22:54 sofar prune out the nonsense blocks first, it's probably less
22:54 celeron55 i've marked the data at the end
22:55 celeron55 the actual code is roughly 6k lines
22:55 celeron55 it's about 11kB of code
22:55 celeron55 seems to be hand-coded in assembler as far as i can tell
22:55 sofar ah, yes, l6700 or so
22:57 sofar ah well, I should go back to one of my 3 current outstanding projects
22:57 celeron55 i'm yet to find where to put my octave shift in here
22:57 celeron55 i guess i'll get to it one day
22:59 celeron55 juhdanad: don't MapNodes automatically initialize to ignore?
23:00 celeron55 i think they do
23:01 juhdanad It is after initialEmerge. The block data should be loaded.
23:01 celeron55 i don't think there's a written rule about it anywhere though
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