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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-07

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Time Nick Message
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01:53 hmmmm okay, approved
02:00 yunfan so anyone can explain me the lag on local server?
02:01 yunfan i want to know which reason caused so much lag
02:06 est31 celeron55, we could add a pagage to the ppa to override the memory using the ldpreload trick. server owners who want to use it could install it.
02:06 est31 but I don't think it should be included in official packages, because I've heard that luajit's garbage collector doesn't handle such large piles, so the limit is there for two reasons, solving one doesnt help alot.
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03:07 paramat ok rebased will merge 3418 after checks
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03:10 yunfan hey, could minetest.register_chatcommand  accept chatcommand that take paramaters?
03:11 yunfan like /sethome blah
03:15 paramat yes i think so, that's a subject for #minetest channel not here. now merging 3418
03:18 yunfan what? so i should go to #minetest for mod relavant questions?
03:18 yunfan i thought that was for player :[
03:25 yunfan ok there is any question, is the lighting problem caused by the irr engine or just a configure problem? paramat
03:27 paramat yes mod stuff goes to #minetest. which lighting problem? we have several
03:28 paramat now merged, a kick-ass commit
03:31 yunfan paramat: the light effects looks too weak in night
03:32 yunfan campared to other block build game i have saw
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03:35 paramat light spread is limited to 16 nodes, as in MC
03:35 paramat that's engine design, not irrlicht
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03:44 yunfan then why i feel scene much lighter in MC than MT?
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04:04 kaeza kinda important(ish): https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3433
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04:31 sofar well bummer, I just learned the hard way that you can't minetest.register_craftitem after the server has finished initializing
04:35 sofar I had hopes I could use it to make books appear in the inventory with custom descriptions for each book
04:42 sofar ohh wait, maybe not entirely
04:43 sofar oh wow I think that actually worked, somehow
04:52 sofar if only the server would send new craftitems to the clients
04:55 hmmmm please don't do this
04:55 sofar well, the alternative is that all the books are written before the server is started
04:56 hmmmm the alternative is subtle race conditions
04:56 sofar otherwise all in-game books have the same description
04:56 sofar a race condition?
04:56 hmmmm maybe you can't really notice it because of the current threading setup, but registering things after mod initialization is bad
04:57 hmmmm in fact, i should make the register_* functions error if it's called outside of initialization
04:57 sofar yeah, I realize after I wrote the code that its not going to work
04:57 sofar the core can't handle it
04:57 sofar but it exposes something I'd like to see changed
04:58 sofar "prefer"
04:58 sofar let's say I get that it's not meant to be right now
04:58 sofar but it severely makes my plans for having an interesting subgame with lots of books pretty much... impossible
04:58 sofar since every book will be ... identical from the inventory view
04:59 sofar unless I make all books ahead of time, in which case it's ... well, that's just a cop-out ;^)
05:04 sofar hmmm: actually it's close to working: a second client connected to that server was able to grab the item from the creative inventory and sees the new name
05:04 sofar remember it's a crafitem, not a node
05:05 sofar hmmmm: would it be possible to make some sort of a "child craftitem" ? one that is mostly identical to the client but has a different metadata, description ?
05:06 hmmmm don't think so
05:06 sofar that would allow things like named gear items, enchanted weapons, books written during runtime, etc..
05:06 hmmmm minetest is an open source game, so..
05:11 sofar you know what, I think this could all be implemented in metadata
05:11 sofar have a custom_description entry in metadata
05:11 sofar client displays the custom_description in the metadata if present, otherwise just the regular description
05:12 sofar and then the books mod can handle the content
05:12 sofar that way you could literally rename anything in game
05:12 sofar and no new registration would ever take place
05:12 sofar since it's all just part of the metadata
05:20 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=5&t=13629 looks like I wasn't the only person with this thought
05:48 sofar ahh yes, that would totally work, the client creates the tooltips every time the formspec is opened
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06:04 est31 <hmmmm> in fact, i should make the register_* functions error if it's called outside of initialization
06:04 sofar reading backlog?
06:04 est31 ^ please do that
06:04 sofar agreed
06:04 est31 yes sofar
06:05 sofar but, help me modify https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L1489 too so it deserializes the itemstack metadata, fetches a custom_description field and displays that as a tooltip too
06:05 sofar lol
06:05 sofar I think it's all possible
06:05 sofar and it wouldn't be a protocol change
06:06 sofar custom craftitem names!
06:06 est31 Name can already be customized, can't it?
06:06 est31 I would agree to the idea
06:06 sofar "description" is what shows in the tooltip
06:06 est31 just wondering what name it should have
06:07 sofar item name would declare a new name, or change the itemstack to a different item
06:07 est31 "custom_description" is good but its always better to get an overview over other used names
06:08 sofar right, that was a quick pitch
06:08 sofar we could just re-use "description"
06:08 sofar which would be even more clear to the modder
06:08 sofar naming items would become very easy - we could simply implement name tags
06:09 sofar punch a nametag in the air to attach a name to that nametag, then craft a nametag and a craftitem in the craft grid to transfer that to the craftitem
06:10 est31 well game designers could
06:10 est31 minetest shuould be more general
06:10 sofar right, I intend to use it to make named books appear with their name in book cases
06:10 sofar or to enchant armor and weapons
06:11 sofar I'm specifically not interested in naming mobs/entities
06:11 sofar or even nodes
06:11 sofar (which doesn't make sense to me atm)
06:11 est31 well yeah
06:11 est31 minetest tries to be generic
06:11 sofar I did read #1118
06:11 est31 making stuff easy equally for all
06:12 sofar I don't think it applies
06:12 est31 that doesnt apply
06:12 sofar one could "on_place" transfer the metadata to a node
06:12 sofar anyway, I think that's orthogonal
06:13 est31 the whole concept of how meta set nodedef is done is wrong IMO
06:13 est31 totally broken
06:13 sofar let's ignore that for this discussion ;)
06:14 est31 not a bad feature, but it should be done differently
06:14 est31 more efficiently
06:14 sofar not sure what's more efficiently than having the client parse the ItemStack metadata when they look at it in a formspec?
06:15 est31 well thats okay I think for our purposes
06:15 est31 so go on, implement a PR I agree to the general idea
06:15 est31 I now try to find out where the engine uses item metadata names
06:15 est31 bc lua_api.txt is silent about it
06:16 sofar well this is where I have an issue
06:16 sofar afaics nothing is using the ItemStack metadata in core
06:16 sofar so I have no examples how to use it
06:16 sofar plus
06:16 sofar there could be modules using it wrongly, since it's coded up to be a string
06:16 sofar and nobody forces serialization of a nice table
06:17 est31 "wrongly"?
06:17 sofar true
06:17 est31 what precisely do you mean
06:17 sofar according to the definition I've seen, ItemStack metadata is "just a string"
06:17 sofar so mods could put just that in there
06:18 est31 ah
06:18 sofar anyway, it's probably moot since if deserialization of metadata fails, it's obviously not serialized metadata and we can fall back to displaying the old description field
06:18 est31 well, then its a bit harder
06:18 est31 we'd have to have some nodedef flag
06:19 est31 and the flag encodes whether to interpret the stack metadata as table or not
06:19 est31 defaulting to "don't interpret it as table"
06:19 sofar right
06:19 sofar but let's see if we can cook something up that just ignores that for now
06:20 sofar I'd be interesting to see if I can actually cook something up
06:20 sofar (freakishly dangerous think to say at 10pm in the evening for me)
06:20 est31 yeah, for simplcicities sake you can just assume the whole metadata contains the description
06:21 est31 if its != "", then it should override
06:21 est31 later on that can be improved, but good for a first prototype
06:21 sofar for a test case, that's indeed enough
06:28 est31 merging in 10 minutes: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​9a5a538e8d1981fb3c2dd69ca3d37e4f9c426cf5
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06:41 est31 pushed
06:41 est31 and bye again
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07:21 asl97 can any core developers take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3417 and finally merge this simple fix?
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08:16 hmmmm wtf is this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/a78dd7f2b6b0e1fefdbaa1ae21b722dd4459e4f4​#diff-5c9fad38a1e2b7a0227fd3f5282dcc09R954
08:16 hmmmm who reviewed this shit?
08:17 hmmmm noise-based ore is now broken, thanks.
08:19 hmmmm BlockMen can fix it
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08:38 est31 hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3428
08:38 est31 three devs approved it, including me, and including a mapgen dev.
08:39 est31 mistakes are human, thanks for pointing this out.
08:39 est31 will push a fix for it
08:39 est31 technically blockmen didnt even voice approval
08:40 est31 he just merged it, he could argue that he only saw the two votes and then merged the PR
08:44 est31 this one PTAL: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit​/49b3fbc7eae31d8618af4f2447523a3b6aa4f7a
08:45 est31 (merging it in 10 minutes)
08:49 est31 asl97, I have already approved your PR, now a second dev has to approve it too
08:55 hmmmm this is an incredibly obvious mistake
08:55 hmmmm est, did you actually test your fix?
08:56 est31 hmmmm, how can I test it?
08:56 hmmmm also the commit message is misleading, it's not a "typo".  this is a blatant error.
08:56 hmmmm see?  wow you don't even test things before you commit them
08:56 hmmmm that's all I ask for
08:56 est31 I wrote "Fix threshold type"
08:56 est31 type not typo :)
08:57 hmmmm oh, nevermind
08:57 hmmmm "a recent commit to fix a typo has changed.."
08:57 hmmmm why not just put in the commit id?
08:57 est31 ok
08:58 hmmmm so anyway why did you miss this blatant error?
08:59 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​51e8c2b27786c050f0271eeeaed5eea17d62f0a0
08:59 est31 well, idk, I've looked at it, didnt really check for the type
08:59 est31 I confirmed that it actually checked for the old value
08:59 est31 thought that it also warns when the deprecated way is used
09:00 hmmmm maybe some lua script unit tests should be added in
09:00 hmmmm register_* things can be as simple as running an embedded string and checking that the data structure is filled out as expected
09:01 est31 hrmm how can I test it now
09:02 est31 it builds, that works
09:02 hmmmm print out the ore structure built and verify it is what you specified in a mod
09:03 est31 lol
09:03 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​a78dd7f2b6b0e1fefdbaa1ae21b722dd4459e4f4#​diff-394cf121b2cc4085d04fc6487fdfadbfL102
09:03 est31 fixed a typo but didnt see the other obvious grammar mistake
09:04 hmmmm you, me, and others (kahrl too I think) all looked at that comment a zillion times and we always missed it
09:04 est31 but wont touch that comment, you promised to give a better one remember?
09:04 hmmmm yeah I guess.
09:04 hmmmm I'll do that
09:13 est31 okay its even tested now
09:13 est31 merging
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15:43 sofar est31: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3435
15:43 est31 thx#
15:43 sofar I think we can iron this out...
15:48 est31 next step: add a flag to nodedef
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17:43 paramat i missed the 'int nthresh' mistake, sorry =s
17:44 paramat i was the main approver of that PR
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18:25 paramat nore sfan any comments? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/735 'Default: Slightly reduce alpha of water post effect colour'
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18:30 paramat next i would like to add a "mapgen_air" alias so that games can use a core mapgen but place vacuum or custom atmosphere nodes instead of air
18:34 sofar could minetest do this too: https://www.opengl.org/archives/reso​urces/code/samples/mjktips/caustics/ ?
18:39 paramat maybe, as a shader. although (of course) personally i feel that's excessive realism :}
18:40 paramat RealBadAngel might be interested
18:42 sofar hahahaha
18:42 sofar well quake 2 had caustics
18:43 sofar I suppose you're right about excessive realism if quake 2 had that effect ;^P
18:46 paramat well i just dislike most shaders :)
18:48 est31 yeah that's paramat's taste...
18:48 est31 the water done by this guy looks really great
18:48 est31 lemme dig up the link
18:49 paramat talk to our shader guy RBA
18:49 sofar given the popularity of shaders for minecraft, I'd say I would give them a fair shot in minetest first
18:49 est31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVmtZITs3Ss
18:49 est31 and I dont even think he has caustics
18:49 est31 (cant really judge it, /me gfx noob)
18:52 Calinou <sofar> well quake 2 had caustics
18:52 Calinou not that I know of
18:52 Calinou maybe some clients had, though
18:52 sofar right, I stand corrected, it had a screen wobble under water
18:52 est31 Calinou is quake expert
18:53 sofar it's been too long since I've played
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18:53 sofar I was like half my age when that came out :^)
18:54 sofar well, close to
18:54 Calinou est31, yes, played all of them :p except Quake 4
18:54 Calinou sofar, Quake 3 had screen wobble, it's just a FOV change :P
18:54 Calinou easily doable in Minetest
18:55 sofar Calinou: I'd prefer better volumetric fog underwater and caustics
18:55 sofar the wobble always felt artificial, but a fov change may be nice
18:56 Calinou the problem is, we can't use modern OpenGL
18:56 Calinou and Irrlicht is not really made for that I guess, too
18:57 sofar but fog is already in the game...
19:18 Calinou volumetric fog probably isn't
19:22 Krock <sofar>I was like half my age when that came out :^)
19:22 Krock Algebra told me that you're ~36 years old now
19:23 Krock err. this is #-dev
19:23 sofar close enough, 42
19:23 Krock ^^
19:24 sofar right, help me implement https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3435 ;^)
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