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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-11-15

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Time Nick Message
00:24 gregorycu joined #minetest-dev
00:24 gregorycu est, good to see ya
00:25 gregorycu Let's drive this ring buffer discussion to conclusion, then I can go back to fallout 4
00:25 est31 okay
00:26 gregorycu I think you are talking about the scenario  at() THEN push_back()
00:27 gregorycu Is that correct? So, T& element = at(0);  push_back(something);   // element now points to something different
00:28 est31 why should it point to something different?
00:28 est31 it doesn't
00:29 gregorycu hmmm....
00:29 est31 or well
00:29 est31 it does
00:29 est31 but other containers have similar properties
00:30 gregorycu I agree 100%
00:30 gregorycu If you do an at(), then modify the thing, you may not have the same element
00:30 gregorycu We can agree on that
00:30 gregorycu So, let's look at the push() THEN at() case
00:31 gregorycu m_offset = 5;   push will make m_offset = 6. then when you do at(6) you get the next element that will be push on-top of (aka, the oldest element)
00:32 gregorycu the push call has basically overwritten at(N-1)
00:33 gregorycu It's all a bit confusing, maybe that statement didn't helop
00:39 gregorycu This is eating into my fallout 4 time
00:40 est31 well whats the problem then?
00:41 gregorycu ShadowNinja said: It seems that pushing a value causes the indexes for at() to shift over by one, which seems like an odd way to do things.
00:41 gregorycu You said: Agreed, its different from vector behaviour, where the value from at(0) always points to the first element you have push()-ed.
00:41 est31 yes ... ?
00:41 gregorycu And you also said: No, the behaviour here is that at(0) points to the element last pushed.
00:42 est31 ah
00:43 gregorycu so, I was just saying that I think the implementation as it stands makes sense, and is consistent with vector and other std containers
00:44 est31 yes, I'm ok with current implementation
00:44 est31 and yes my statements contradict
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00:44 est31 no time to find out which one is the right one :)
00:46 gregorycu Can you just say you revoke your objections? That way we can ignore them :)
00:46 gregorycu And I can argue with Shadow instead
00:47 gregorycu I don't want this dude to be discouraged, he seems pretty good
00:47 est31 yeah
00:47 est31 wanted a newbie task, got a bit less of a newbie task :)
00:47 gregorycu He's up for it
00:47 gregorycu That's the good thing
00:49 est31 and my statements do not contradict
00:49 est31 the behaviour here is that at(0) points to the element last pushed.
00:49 est31 the behaviour for vector is that at(0) points to the element first pushed.
00:49 est31 so its different
00:49 est31 which is not bad by itself
00:50 est31 I only agreed to the fact that it is different from vector
00:50 est31 and see, I just +1ed it
00:57 gregorycu Ahh ok, cool
00:57 gregorycu Awesome, Fallout 4 time
00:57 gregorycu Thank you
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01:47 kaeza haven't looked at the commit log, but now the rendering is mmuch faster. almost 50 fps with 150 draw range on my crap intel integrated!
01:48 kaeza last time it was so
01:48 est31 in the master branch?
01:48 kaeza mething like 30 fps
01:48 kaeza yep
01:49 est31 idk
01:49 est31 I cant recall anything graphically changed
01:50 est31 what was the commit you were on before?
01:50 kaeza dont know maybe a month or more ago
01:51 est31 can you paste git reflog
01:51 est31 on pastebin
01:52 kaeza it is also less choppy, and map loading/gen looks faster too
01:52 kaeza cant form here on mobile, but will take note to report later
01:53 kaeza yes touch keyboards suck</offtopic>
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02:15 Wayward1 I'm observing what appears to be a phantom player on one of VE's servers: http://imgur.com/nyyk1sD
02:15 Wayward1 There is no visible player named "unknown" on the server. Any thoughts?
02:18 est31 do /status again, is it still there?
02:18 Wayward1 yep
02:55 Wayward_One It's still there, if anyone's interested
02:56 est31 well, unless you can reproduce after a restart ...
02:57 Wayward_One Actual server restart, or relog?
03:03 Wayward1 Either way, I just relogged and it's still there, but the server won't restart until 10:00 am UTC
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03:40 diemartin ~tell est31 FWIW, https://gist.github.com/kaeza/1f02b45b677065667db3
03:40 ShadowBot diemartin: O.K.
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05:14 gregorycu kaeza must have been talking about my massive changes
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07:09 paramat joined #minetest-dev
07:10 paramat i'll merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3377 'Mgfractal: Revert unnecessary duplication of parameters' soon
07:11 est31 one thing about that pr
07:11 est31 you seem to edit minetest.conf.example manually
07:11 paramat yes
07:11 est31 be noted that from time to time it will be updated from settingstypes.txt
07:11 paramat aha i didn't know
07:12 est31 so any update you do in minetest.conf.example that doesnt match settingstypes.txt will be removed sooner or later
07:12 est31 you can do these kinds of updates yourself as well
07:12 est31 just edit
07:12 paramat i see
07:12 est31 lemme see...
07:13 est31 Edit builtin/mainmenu/tab_settings.lua, change the "false" at line 727 to a "true"
07:13 est31 then start the client, mainmenu is enough
07:17 paramat nice, thanks
07:18 est31 I'll merge this in ten minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​bdfb761dd06261e71f96b731ad423338a9c01008
07:18 paramat ..then change the true back to false i guess
07:18 paramat ok go ahead
07:19 est31 is that a +1 ?
07:19 est31 otherwise I wait for you
07:20 paramat i'll look
07:20 paramat seems simple so +1
07:23 est31 thanks, pushed
07:28 Hunterz hi, est31 something broken wit the console... when serever running some days without restart, console looks like stop showing all info from the server
07:28 est31 Hunterz, what do you mean?
07:29 Hunterz when press some key and then enter, console show one new line of 2 days old event
07:29 est31 you might have scrolled up
07:29 est31 try pgup / pgdown
07:29 Hunterz ah works
07:30 Hunterz thanks, will be possible autoscroll?
07:30 est31 yes it is autoscroll
07:30 est31 just keep scrolled at bottom
07:31 Hunterz how?
07:31 est31 well press pgdown as often as possible
07:31 est31 then it will stay there
07:32 Hunterz ok
07:33 Hunterz will be possible add / instead of chat to console as defaut behavior?
07:34 Hunterz i think server console is primarily for server control, not chatting with players
07:34 est31 it can be added
07:34 est31 perhaps one mode for / one for no default
07:39 Hunterz Minetest 0.4.13-dev-0876623 | Game 4575726 Time of day 19:00 -- Number after Game is seconds server online? Will be possible change it to some human readable? (Server online 2 days 8 hours...) Is possible add to this line something about memory consumption, server lag etc? I think will be useful.
07:40 est31 its not uptime
07:40 est31 its the time since the first start of the server
07:40 est31 so its the sum of all uptimes
07:40 est31 if you restart, the value continues, doesnt start with 0 again
07:41 est31 And I dunno what it can be changed to
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07:41 Hunterz I think actual uptime (latest restart) will be fine add too
07:41 est31 well too many time values won't look nice I think
07:42 Hunterz for example bukkit (minecraft)
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: CONSOLE issued server command: /mem
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: Uptime: 47 minutes 36 seconds
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: Current TPS = 20
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: Maximum memory: 989 MB.
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: Allocated memory: 241 MB.
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: Free memory: 177 MB.
07:42 Hunterz [08:18:55 INFO]: World "world": 272 chunks, 18 entities, 27 tiles.
07:42 est31 use a pastebin dude
07:43 Hunterz sorry
07:45 Calinou server could have /uptime command, yes, definitely
07:45 Calinou replies uptime in days/hours/minutes/seconds
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08:06 paramat will merge 3377 after checks
08:12 paramat now merging
08:17 paramat done
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08:36 est31 any core dev want to review #3354 #3355 #3369 ?
08:39 est31 kahrl ? nore ? sfan5 ? celeron55 ? ^
08:43 paramat nore sfan5 i'll merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/728 'Default/mapgen: Use sidelen 16 for low density decorations' later, fairly trivial biome system maintenance
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09:17 paramat now merging game 728
09:21 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
09:22 paramat done
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12:02 nore paramat: looks good
12:03 est31 nore, I pinged you earlier about engine PRs. they are fairly simple, but only have my approval
12:03 est31 as hmmm is at mt vacation, a second person to review stuff is missing
12:04 est31 If you have time can you look at #3369 #3355 #3354
12:04 nore est31: ah, I had not seen those
12:04 nore looking at them now
12:05 nore #3369: not tested, but looks fine if it works
12:06 nore (the commit looks simple enough to me so if you tested it, +1)
12:07 est31 I didn't. Ill ask if the pr creator tested
12:07 nore #3355 looks fine too
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12:12 nore about #3354, it looks fine, but I don't seen what it is used for
12:12 nore s/seen/see/
12:13 est31 its to replace an std::queue in profiler code
12:13 nore ah, ok
12:14 * nore had not seen that while looking at the code
12:14 est31 yes, that pr doesnt change it
12:14 est31 it only adds the data structure
12:14 nore ok
12:15 nore I did not check this one as much as the others though
12:15 nore but the code looks fine; it however needs testing
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12:16 nore so let's say I give +1 to #3369 ans #3355, and to #3354 if it is tested
12:17 est31 great thanks
12:35 nrzkt est31 i added a +1 for the item groups craft replacements
12:40 est31 fine thanks
12:49 Hunterz Hi, anyone have rendering delay when first render page of unified inventory? I made video: http://www.twitch.tv/hunterzcz/v/25917402
12:50 Hunterz its on the linux
12:52 Calinou Hunterz, don't use HD texture packs, it will be much faster
12:52 Calinou if it's still too slow, there is not much you can do, except enabling "Preload item visuals" which will make the delay occur when starting the world, rather than opening the inventory
12:52 Hunterz i have no texture pack
12:52 who_wants_some i have that delay when changing pages for the first time on unified invenory
12:53 Hunterz yes only first time
12:53 Hunterz i think some preload to memory will be solution
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12:57 Hunterz hmmm when try enable to "Preload item visuals" - during login to server sreeen flickering like hell
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13:52 Sokomine hi :-) i could use some feedback. mg_villages is mostly ready to be released. the documentation can be found under https://github.com/Sokomine/mg_villages/wiki   feedback regarding the docu is welcome
13:56 Sokomine ups. sorry. wrong channel :-(
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16:37 who_wants_some http://pastebin.com/Bd4r5y0J bad allocation error on Krock's build, 32bit, windows 7, 1.6gb of ram was taken by mt at the moment of crash
16:50 who_wants_some get this error after very long walks (hour or so)
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18:50 celeron55 who_wants_some: how much ram and swap do you have? i mean, did you run out of memory?
18:50 celeron55 that kind of error can occur due to one of two reasons
18:51 celeron55 either you actually ran out of memory, or the program erroneously tried to allocate a ridiculously large chunk of memory
19:08 who_wants_some i made a topic about it, feel free to look at it https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=13585 / i have 8 gig or ram, and mt 32 bit dies at 1.6gb, that is reproducable
19:09 hmmmm well I think that's your answer
19:10 hmmmm how do you expect a 32 bit process to make use of your 8gb of ram?
19:11 who_wants_some i think if mt is a 32bit process, it should unload some blocks if it goes close to a "limit"
19:11 hmmmm right but it doesn't know that
19:11 hmmmm i think all lawn should cut itself too but it doesn't
19:11 hmmmm i think my lawn is bugged
19:12 who_wants_some not possible to detect if os is 32 bit and enable some dirty hacks? :(
19:14 hmmmm even if it were simply to do in a platform independent manner, there's a 99% chance you're running windows so you'd have to wait until the next release to get it
19:14 hmmmm your best shot is to just download a 64 bit build and play that instead
19:14 who_wants_some i know, i thinking about average user who does not know about this
19:14 who_wants_some i'm*
19:15 who_wants_some ultra large multiplayer servers like LinuxGaming2 crash 32 bit client in a metter of minutes :)
19:16 hmmmm you should just lower client_mapblock_limit
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19:19 who_wants_some yes, that is good too, too bad it is not lowering automaticly when reaching mem limit in 32bit os :) I don't want to argue, I want to inform, thanks for response
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20:23 celeron55 well i guess we should have a long-term goal of automatically unloading stuff if the memory limit comes close
20:23 celeron55 but it's not trivial because it's completely non-standard
20:24 celeron55 the OS could just stop allocating stuff even if there is free memory, or somehow create more virtual memory after the current RAM and swap are exhausted
20:25 celeron55 and i don't think we could manage to maintain a system where any allocation could fail and the game could continue running
20:25 celeron55 this is what hmmmm is referring to :P
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20:27 celeron55 i mean, if you have 8GB of RAM and it's a 32 bit process, exactly what kind of a limit is 1.6GB?
20:27 celeron55 i don't see any way of detecting that there would be a limit at that point
20:28 hmmmm FWIW I am guessing who_wants_some is measuring memory usages from peak working set and not reserved
20:28 hmmmm if the reserved memory gets around 2gb, then you have problems
20:28 celeron55 that's very true
20:28 celeron55 (and still very OS-dependent)
20:29 hmmmm yeah i think this is totally wrong for Linux
20:33 celeron55 i guess a system that checks through an os-specific wrapper how much reservable memory is not yet reserved could be created and called before each larger allocation and be set up to trigger unloading of the oldest of things; but i bet nobody is going to attempt that
20:33 celeron55 it might get too fiddly and would be a very rarely used code path
20:34 celeron55 basically it would probably just crash anyway :P
20:41 who_wants_some some servers need [64 bit] tag, so user will know it is heavy load down there
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21:06 celeron55 maybe some kind of a memory limit suggestion setting could be made that could default on each 32-bit platform to something that usually avoids address space exhaustion
21:07 celeron55 and which would speed up mapblock unloading when it triggers
21:07 celeron55 that could be simple enough, and fairly simple to test
21:08 celeron55 it cannot provide 100% protection against it though because of how memory works at OS level
21:08 hmmmm you know I wonder how many mapblocks contain meshes that are just solid cubes
21:08 hmmmm especially underground
21:08 celeron55 none
21:08 hmmmm is that case optimized already?
21:08 celeron55 mapblock edges are not generated into the mesh
21:08 hmmmm ahh ok
21:08 celeron55 if they are not needed
21:09 celeron55 the mesh generation isn't actually fed the data of a single mapblcok
21:09 celeron55 mapblock*
21:09 celeron55 it is fed the data of 5 mapblocks in order to give it the information it needs for doing that
21:09 celeron55 and it's also needed for avoiding z-fighting issues
21:09 celeron55 wait, i mean 7 mapblocks?
21:10 celeron55 actually no...
21:10 celeron55 it's four
21:10 celeron55 the middle one, and each one towards the three positive (or maybe negative, idk) coordinates
21:11 celeron55 anyway; faces are generated only towards a certain side so that when mapblocks are rendered next to each other, only one covers the edge
21:12 celeron55 and it will have nothing there if the other one contains something that doesn't make a face there
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21:13 celeron55 (i did make FarMap work in such a way that it only generates based on a single FarBlock and it does make solid cubes underground; however it doesn't seem to be a problem)
21:13 hmmmm heh
21:13 VanessaE celeron55: did you see my z-fighting glitch regarding that?
21:14 celeron55 it isn't necessarily related to that
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21:14 celeron55 a FarBlock couldn't carefully cover the individual faces of mapblock
21:14 celeron55 you'd have a huge hole in there instead
21:14 VanessaE oh ok.
21:14 VanessaE (for reference: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-12_00-15-02.png )
21:14 celeron55 maybe they should be offset so that z fighting wouldn't occur
21:16 who_wants_some i see z-fighting in OGL at least since 0.4.5 (i mean that texture tear I've posted on forum)
21:16 VanessaE who_wants_some: I don't think this is related to that.
21:17 who_wants_some maybe not
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