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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-01-21

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Time Nick Message
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01:24 Pulec_MC hello!
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02:14 hmmmm hiho
02:15 hmmmm alright, stand back ppl
02:15 hmmmm i'm going to do some minetesting
02:22 Pulec_MC watchout1
02:34 VanessaE uh oh
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04:33 Nate123 has anybody else tried using "animals_modpack" on the latest dev build?  I'm not getting anything to spawn on my pre-existing map.
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04:46 Nate123 "gives vo?ice to Zeno"??  Does that mean I don't have a voice yet
04:46 Nate123 ?
04:49 Wayward_One Nate123: we can still see your messages, if that's what you mean
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11:02 Zeno` Slow day
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12:15 gregorycu Yeppers
12:15 gregorycu I went into work today, it was good
12:20 Zeno` hah :)
12:25 Zeno` Any objections to merging #2172?  It has now been tested using French
12:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2172 -- Allow filter and mipmap drop down menues to be translated by Zeno-
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12:26 sfan5 Zeno`: looks good
12:26 Zeno` ok, cool. Thanks sfan5
12:26 Zeno` will merge shortly
12:45 gregorycu Zeno`: I think I found something unusual
12:45 gregorycu I believe we store a lot of our node data in column major format, but our access patterns assume row major
12:46 Zeno` err
12:46 Zeno` so why aren't there issues?
12:46 Zeno` everything should be row major (IMO)
12:47 Zeno` nobody uses column major without a reason
12:49 gregorycu Can you look at VoxelArea::index
12:49 gregorycu And just make sure I'm correct
12:49 gregorycu My poor mind is tired
12:51 Zeno` link
12:52 gregorycu Are you on linux?
12:52 Zeno` yeah
12:52 Zeno` why?
12:52 gregorycu /home/zeno/minetest/src/voxel.h
12:52 Zeno` lol
12:52 gregorycu ;)
12:53 gregorycu One sec
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12:53 Zeno` you're just trying to stop me being lazy
12:53 gregorycu I'm sorry sir, it won't happen again
12:54 Zeno` that's row-major
12:54 gregorycu https://github.com/minetest/mi​netest/blob/master/src/voxel.h  line 277
12:54 gregorycu No it aint'
12:55 gregorycu Every change in z is amplified by length_y * length_x
12:55 gregorycu The z's should all be clustered together
12:56 Zeno` nah, that's row-major with the expression written backwards to how you'd normally see it
12:57 gregorycu Sounds like you're doubting me
12:57 Zeno` I am
12:57 Zeno` :)
12:57 gregorycu I'm going to paste it here without the offsets
12:57 gregorycu s32 i = (s32)(z)*em.Y*em.X + (y)*em.X + (x);
12:57 Zeno` yeah, that's row-major
12:57 gregorycu If I were to increment z, how much would i get incremented?
12:58 Zeno` em.Y*em.X
12:58 gregorycu Right...
12:58 gregorycu um...
12:58 gregorycu So that's column major...
12:58 Zeno` it really should be written x + y*em.X + z*em.Y*em.X
12:58 gregorycu Ok
12:59 Zeno` or maybe I am confused
12:59 gregorycu But em.Y*em.X is still the difference between zs
12:59 Zeno` it certainly looks like row-major to me
12:59 gregorycu The order doesn't confuse me
12:59 gregorycu From wikipedia: In row-major order, the last dimension is contiguous
12:59 gregorycu The last dimension here is z
13:00 gregorycu Which means an increase of 1 to z, must be an increase of 1 to i
13:00 gregorycu Instead it's a whole jump away
13:00 Zeno` where are the row-major references in the code then?
13:02 Zeno` http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row-major_order
13:02 Zeno` look at the Row-Major Order e.g. C table
13:03 Zeno` also note the "(Note this is the opposite of Cartesian conventions.)"
13:04 gregorycu Are you saying wikipedia is being inconsistant?
13:04 gregorycu "In row-major order, the last dimension is contiguous"
13:05 gregorycu The last dimension here is z
13:05 gregorycu Look at the address calculations
13:06 Zeno` int char a[xd][yd][zd];
13:06 Zeno` wait, using 2 dimensional
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13:06 Zeno` int char a[rows][cols]
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13:07 Zeno` hmm
13:07 Zeno` now I've confused myself lol
13:07 gregorycu It happens when you're wrong
13:07 gregorycu The next stage is acceptance
13:07 Zeno` nah, I want to stay in denial
13:07 nrzkt oh, this calcul can be optimized
13:08 gregorycu The good news is that we assume column major in many places
13:08 Zeno` so let's look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row-major_order again
13:08 Zeno` given int char a[rows][cols]; what would you expect the formula to be
13:08 nrzkt please factorize em.X
13:09 gregorycu For row major?
13:09 Zeno` yeah
13:09 gregorycu i = r * cols + c
13:09 nrzkt s32 i = (s32)(z-off.Z)*em.Y*em.X + (y-off.Y)*em.X + (x-off.X); must become
13:09 nrzkt s32 i = ((s32)(z-off.Z)*em.Y + (y-off.Y) *em.X + (x-off.X);
13:10 nrzkt s32 i = ((s32)(z-off.Z)*em.Y + (y-off.Y)) *em.X + (x-off.X); sorry
13:10 Zeno` er ryes
13:10 Zeno` err yes*
13:11 nrzkt same line 308: i += a.Z*extent.X*extent.Y + a.Y*extent.X + a.X; must become i += (a.Z*extent.Y + a.Y) *extent.X + a.X;
13:11 gregorycu To be honest, I'm looking at the definition of row-major is terms of the maths
13:11 Zeno` yeah, so this all row-major?
13:11 gregorycu Not the terms row or column
13:12 gregorycu What nrzkt is posting is column-major
13:12 gregorycu What I just posted was row-major
13:12 Zeno` yeah ok
13:12 Zeno` you're right
13:12 Zeno` I am tired
13:13 gregorycu On the plus side, I'm wrong, a lot of code assume column major
13:14 gregorycu So, it's surprising for the casual observer, but not slow
13:14 Zeno` perhaps that's so it's consistent with opengl?
13:14 Zeno` geez, there needs to be more comments
13:14 Zeno` i.e. why decisions were made etc etc et
13:15 Zeno` and a comment saying "this is column-major"
13:15 Zeno` so tired people don't get confused
13:15 Zeno` I do remember this now when I was rewriting something
13:16 Zeno` one of the blit functions I think
13:16 gregorycu How do I undo the most recent commit?
13:16 Zeno` in master?
13:17 gregorycu No, in a branch
13:17 T4im if you locally did a commit and want to change it, change the file, add it to the index and git commit --amend
13:17 Zeno` git reset --hard HEAD~1   to nuke it forever
13:17 gregorycu No, I pushed it, like the fool I am
13:18 T4im then you can over-push it with git push -f
13:18 gregorycu What does that do? Undo the last push?
13:18 gregorycu Oh, do the reset, then that?
13:18 T4im in combination with zeno's snippet yes
13:18 gregorycu ok
13:18 T4im reset works locally only, the force-push makes it happen on the remote side
13:19 T4im note: with --hard the file vanishes that you changed
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13:19 gregorycu yay! It's gone
13:20 gregorycu THank you
13:21 Zeno` yeah, it's relatively "dangerous"
13:21 Zeno` but often what you want
13:22 Zeno` I would not do it on upstream/master for example
13:22 Zeno` people would kill me
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13:22 T4im well dangerous :P I think short of gc-pruning and rm -rf .git you cannot loose a file so easily in git
13:23 gregorycu Anyway, I have a PR coming that speeds up Profiler::ave by a factor of 10
13:23 gregorycu Takes it from 1% down to 0.1%
13:23 T4im --mixed and paramterless is often usefull too
13:23 Zeno` T4im, that's all true. I meant "dangerous" in a casual sense heh
13:24 T4im :D
13:24 Zeno` some of the Profiler things should be surrounded by #ifndef #endif IMO, but that's for another day
13:25 Zeno` #ifndef NDEBUG*
13:25 Zeno` gotta fix assert first :)
13:26 gregorycu #2173
13:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2173 -- Speed up Profiler::ave by a factor of 10 by gregorycu
13:26 gregorycu I'm off to bed, have fun
13:28 Zeno` nrzkt, still no problems with the new network code
13:28 Zeno` I'd say it's baked and ready to merge. Better check with sapier though
13:31 Zeno` bbiab
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13:38 vitaminx hi everyone, i've got some weird problems with minetest-server
13:38 vitaminx debug_log_level = 3 and profiler_print_interval = 10
13:39 vitaminx however, profiler output just stopped after an hour running - there is no new output in debug.txt
13:39 vitaminx and for some strange reason there are also no messages from "Emerge Thread" after an hour or so
13:40 vitaminx they just stopped logging for no apparent reason and the only debug messages i get now are from "ServerThread"
13:40 vitaminx weird, no?
13:41 vitaminx any idea?
13:53 vitaminx apart of that everything seems normal, players dont notice anything, new players connect normally...
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14:13 vitaminx no one? never happened to anyone that the profiler stopped logging?
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14:58 shadowzone Hello Zeno`
14:58 Zeno` hi
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15:18 nrzkt hi zero
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15:18 nrzkt sorry i didn't have time to answer . Thanks for your message, PR2 is quite good and is nearly ready for review :)
15:18 kilbith Zeno`, not zero
15:19 nrzkt Zeno*, sorry i have a guildmate which name is Zero :p
15:19 Zeno` I'd like to see Wayward_One's performance profile before committing the network code, though
15:19 Zeno` I've asked him to produce one (with instructions)
15:19 kilbith (you can use the autocompletion with [Alt] key)
15:20 nrzkt i'm using pidgin, no autocomplete :p
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15:54 Wayward_One Zeno`: profile is almost complete
15:54 Zeno` Wayward_One, no rush :)
15:54 Zeno` how long are you letting it run for?
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15:55 Wayward_One how long does it need? i was thinking at least 40 minutes
15:55 Zeno` yeah, that's probably long enough
15:56 shadowzone What for?
15:56 Wayward_One ok
15:58 Wayward_One shadowzone: #2145
15:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game
15:58 shadowzone Oh.
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16:24 Wayward_One Zeno`, just finished, but there seems to be two outputs, one much larger than the other. shall i paste both?
16:24 Zeno` two?
16:24 Zeno` what are they named?
16:24 Zeno` There should only be one, but maybe it got split
16:25 Zeno` Highlander: There can be only one
16:25 Zeno` heh
16:26 Wayward_One oh, nvm, the first whas when i exited due to one of these:  ERROR[main]: ServerMap::loadMapMeta(): could not open/home/mint/minetest/bin/.​./worlds/newtest/map_meta.txt
16:26 Wayward_One -h
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16:28 Zeno` Wayward_One, depending on how large it is, GitHub may not be the best place to "paste" it
16:29 Wayward_One yeah, i'm uploading it to my dropbox
16:30 Wayward_One here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/988wura​hjnuucud/callgrind.out.28254?dl=0
16:31 Wayward_One should i put it on github too?
16:36 Zeno` well, it's pretty big :)
16:36 Zeno` yeah put the link on github so others can look at it (mention what it is... callgrind output)
16:37 Wayward_One ok, yeah, that's what i meant :P adding now
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16:38 Zeno` Also, your CPU
16:39 Zeno` also, check minetest.conf num_emerge_threads if it's there
16:41 Wayward_One My CPU? as in the type...?
16:41 Zeno` Wayward_One, seems to be a fairly good snapshot. I'll look at it more closely tomorrow as it's 3AM (almost here)
16:41 Zeno` yeah, CPU model name
16:42 Wayward_One ok, sounds good :)
16:43 Zeno` maybe someone else will look at it and find a solution before I wake up :)
16:51 Zeno` Wayward_One, thanks for producing that file
16:51 Zeno` it will be helpful
16:56 Wayward_One no problem :)
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19:39 ShadowNinja Look good?  Fixes MB/s -> MiB/s: http://sprunge.us/KecK?diff
19:39 ShadowNinja Alternatively it could actually use MB/s.
19:40 ShadowNinja (ditto for KB/KiB)
19:43 rubenwardy It it currently /1000 or /1025 ?
19:43 rubenwardy Oh, /1024
19:43 rubenwardy Nevermind
19:44 Calinou ShadowNinja, yes, please do
19:44 Calinou needs to be fixed in translations though, will be done over time
19:44 Calinou (French is Kio/Mio/Gio/…)
19:55 hmmmm ShadowNinja:  Oh please don't do that
19:55 hmmmm I can't stand seeing "KiB"
19:57 hmmmm and you say "fixes" like KB/s and MB/s is wrong
19:57 Calinou /1000 is a standard…
19:58 ShadowNinja hmmmm: It is wrong.  It uses MiB/KiB but displays it as MB/KB.  Aither it should calculate MB/KB or it should use the proped postfix.
19:58 Calinou more than Windows using /1000 and showing “KB” to the user
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19:58 ShadowNinja Either*
19:58 hmmmm KB and MB have come to mean different things in different contexts
19:59 hmmmm Hard drive manufacturers started using it to mean the definition that better suits their needs
19:59 hmmmm and then everybody else bends over backwards because of that?
19:59 hmmmm and creates a brand new set of units
19:59 hmmmm when I see "KB" and it's related to network traffic, I expect it to mean 1024 bytes
20:00 ShadowNinja Well, /1000 is standard for other measurements, like meters and liters.
20:00 hmmmm people who change the abbreviations to "KiB" and "MiB" are pedantic nutjobs that belong on wikipedia and have too much free time
20:02 ShadowNinja *sigh*
20:02 ShadowNinja Welp, back to the stash it goes.
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