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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-11-26

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Time Nick Message
00:24 paramat joined #minetest-dev
00:38 paramat hmmmm, line 107 of mg_decoration.cpp suggests i can use noise params instead of a fixed fill ratio, how is this done and what format? here's my failed attempt https://gist.github.com/pa​ramat/05d14c973db2dfc080cb
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01:14 hmmmm hi paramat, it looks good to me but you need to keep in mind that the rainforest biome is its own distribution along with the noise
01:14 hmmmm so where the decorations actually get placed is the intersection between the areas of that biome and those noise params
01:14 paramat okay
01:14 hmmmm you should change default:junglegrass to something that would stand out better such as default:bricks to verify if it indeed works
01:15 hmmmm try removing the biomes parameter if you can't seem to find any placed decorations
01:20 paramat thanks i'll experiment further, hopefully just my own silly mistake =)
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06:56 Zeno` has anyone else tried #1771?
06:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1771 -- Increase step smoothing to fit 1:1 stairs (works well on slabs too) by Calinou
06:57 Zeno` I compared with and without the patch and the new (patched value) seems much more natural to me
06:57 Zeno` while still retaining an acceptable amount of "bobbing"
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07:25 RealBadAngel +1 for 1771
07:25 Zeno` Ok, I'll merge now ;)
07:25 Zeno` it looks heaps better IMO
07:26 Zeno` unless you want to merge it
07:26 Zeno` lol :)
07:26 RealBadAngel nah, i do have a mess here with my own patches
07:27 RealBadAngel i think i will strip down the extruded meshes patch just for plantlike
07:27 Zeno` so do I... I deleted some of my still pending branches when cleaning up my repo :-o
07:28 RealBadAngel i cant just delete my own, i do have some interesting stuff stored there
07:28 Zeno` I didn't delete them locally (thankfully) just on github
07:28 RealBadAngel there are water and lava shaders (waiting for better days) ;)
07:29 RealBadAngel have you actually saw the lava shaders?
07:29 Zeno` I saw a youtube of them (awesome)
07:31 RealBadAngel i will merge them once we have clean mapblock mesh
07:32 RealBadAngel but we have to fix all the drawtypes before that
07:33 Zeno` you'll fix all those tonight, right? :D
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07:35 RealBadAngel hehe i doubt it
07:35 Zeno` :)
07:35 RealBadAngel today i will just make the plantlike rdy
07:36 Zeno` While you're here RBA: #1872
07:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1872 -- Fixes for Android after recent commits. by KodexKy
07:36 Zeno` it already has sapier's go ahead, but a 3rd opinion cannot go astray
07:36 Zeno` I've asked KodexKy to squash and will commit once he does so
07:37 RealBadAngel im ok with it
07:37 Zeno` The fixes are needed a) because of refactor_main; and b) the global thingy that SN added
07:37 Zeno` cool
07:37 RealBadAngel you dont have to wait for original commiter to squash them
07:38 Zeno` yeah I was in a "being polite" mood hehehe
07:38 RealBadAngel just make a note "please squash your commits in the future" and just do it
07:38 Zeno` Plus it gave me an opportunity to explain why I thought those two should be squashed
07:39 Zeno` If he doesn't squash I'll just do it, but it was a way of opening up communication and it's not super urgent to merge
07:39 Zeno` Unless you use Android of course :)
07:41 Zeno` Have you built for Android? I dunno if it's just because it was the first time I've done it (I did it today) but it was kind of tricky for me
07:42 RealBadAngel i was testing some builds, but havent built for myself, were using sapier's builds
07:43 RealBadAngel i do have 2 devices to run android builds, Samsung Galaxy tab 3 and x86 kitkat
07:43 Zeno` It made me wonder how many people using Android actually use "simple single player" mode and whether or not a "light client" would be worth it
07:44 Zeno` i.e. a client version without the server stuff
07:44 RealBadAngel imho most mobile users wont need single player
07:45 Zeno` yeah, so it might be worth it. I'll look at the feasibility tomorrow I think
07:45 RealBadAngel mobile devices imho are too weak to run server and the client at the same time
07:46 RealBadAngel and there are already some servers out there to let them connect
07:46 Zeno` exactly
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07:47 RealBadAngel making the client lighter and faster can only effect in improving gameplay and in the longer run raising number of servers
07:48 RealBadAngel they wont see the reason in doing so if the client will be slow or unplayable
07:49 RealBadAngel also one day i would like to return to the idea of connected servers
07:50 Zeno` I'd like that as well, but there are some tricky parts
07:50 RealBadAngel so players could use in-game teleporters, portals or something like that just to walk from one server to another
07:50 RealBadAngel it shouldnt be very different like mc's loading nether and back
07:51 RealBadAngel will just take some time
07:51 RealBadAngel and restrictions can be defined by target server
07:51 RealBadAngel like player can transfer inventory/ cant tranfer it
07:53 RealBadAngel in the worst case player will travel with unknown nodes, at his own risk
07:54 RealBadAngel server wont crash because of it, it can already handle unkowns
07:54 Zeno` yeah
07:54 Zeno` but are node IDs guarenteed to be the same server to server (I doubt they are)
07:54 RealBadAngel that wont need the id's just names
07:55 Zeno` yeah, that'd work then
07:56 RealBadAngel but even, just for starters, version that wouldnt allow inv transfers would be nice
07:57 RealBadAngel so we could have kinda nexus servers with many portals leading to differnt worlds
07:57 Zeno` but in the long run, wouldn't it be awesome if you could join a world that is rich and coal, and then go to another world that is coal poor and then trade it (for example)
07:57 RealBadAngel exactly
07:57 Zeno` that'd add a whole new dimension of gameplay
07:57 RealBadAngel this is WoM
07:58 RealBadAngel ;)
07:58 RealBadAngel World of Minetest
07:58 RealBadAngel and something voxels games does not have
08:00 RealBadAngel also look at this from another point of view, you have 40 servers running with a few players on each one
08:00 RealBadAngel now let them freely walk from one to another. you have game with many players online
08:01 Zeno` yep
08:01 Zeno` it's something I've thought a lot about as well
08:01 Zeno` it'd require opt-in and cooperation between server operators but I think that that would happen
08:02 Zeno` e.g. I'd have no problem if I could interact my server with lots of others
08:02 RealBadAngel just skip back to main menu/join tab and reuse player data to automatically connect to other server (with name:port) given by previous server
08:02 Zeno` could have industrial worlds, natural worlds, fantasy worlds each offering different resources etc
08:03 RealBadAngel failback is to reconnect to old one
08:03 Zeno` I'd even upgrade my VPS to enable it :D
08:03 Zeno` although I doubt I'd have to
08:03 RealBadAngel that doesnt need so much changes
08:03 RealBadAngel all the code is here
08:04 RealBadAngel just skip the menu and connect to something other
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08:05 RealBadAngel only difference is that you have to origin (in case of fail) and destination server's data
08:05 RealBadAngel and make client connect again
08:05 Kodexky Hi
08:06 RealBadAngel rest is just cosmetic (some info for a player just)
08:06 Zeno` yep
08:06 Zeno` hi Kodexky :)
08:07 Zeno` I was just talking about merging your latest PR
08:08 Zeno` glad to finally meet you as well
08:08 Kodexky Yes, i was doing my last check of everything before going to sleep and saw it.
08:08 Kodexky Its a pleasure btw.
08:09 Zeno` Well, I compiled minetest for Android for the first time today
08:09 Zeno` And I didn't enjoy it much at all lol
08:09 Zeno` So I for one am glad you're around
08:09 Kodexky hehe first time its just painful. It took me 2 days.
08:10 Zeno` took me about 6 hours so that's probably the same
08:10 Zeno` and about 7 hours yesterday to install the SDK and NDK :-o
08:11 Kodexky Eh, i was paranoid enough to believe i was doing something terribly wrong.
08:11 Zeno` So was I. I couldn't get the emulator to work on x86_64 either (although I worked it out eventually)
08:12 Zeno` merged
08:12 Zeno` thanks for squashing. As I said, I could have done it but I wanted to take the opportunity to explain why I thought that in this case squasing would be good
08:13 Kodexky puff, i tried the emulator to skip downloading to my tab. tried once, wont do it again ever!!. Hope you get your tab soon.
08:13 Zeno` I got it yesterday :)
08:13 Kodexky i was about to ask. to squash or not to squash?
08:14 Zeno` well, squashing is not always necessary. But I think in this case the 2 commits were so closely related and small that they warrented squashing
08:14 Zeno` e.g. I merged something the other day where there were two commits, but they sort of related to different things (more than this current one)
08:14 Kodexky ok, so its case by case.
08:14 Zeno` mostly
08:15 Zeno` and probably pretty subjective as well :)
08:15 Zeno` so it's hard, but I think keep doing it the way you're doing
08:15 Zeno` someone will ask if they think they need to be squash
08:16 Zeno` let me find an example where I didn't squash
08:16 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1850
08:17 Zeno` Those two commits are obviously not related, so squashing would have been bad
08:17 RealBadAngel general rule is one commit per PR
08:17 Kodexky Ok, i see. I'll try to avoid multiple commits when possible.
08:18 Zeno` yeah
08:18 Kodexky btw 3 errors in 4000 lines is way better than my brightest day.
08:18 RealBadAngel so if you want commit that fixes a, and a second that makes b
08:18 Zeno` I could argue successfully that your two commits were distinct as well (because they fix bugs caused by different changes) but separate PRs are best (or squashed ones if they can be related to each other enough)
08:19 RealBadAngel so make two PRs for them
08:19 Zeno` Kodexky, thanks :)
08:19 RealBadAngel if all your commits are in area of a, squash them
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08:21 Kodexky Ok. Im still getting used to git. Until now i've only coded for myself or as a lone dev.
08:22 Kodexky Btw, about what RBA and you where talking...
08:22 Kodexky Please, don't cut down mobile clients.
08:22 RealBadAngel huh?
08:23 Kodexky I mean...
08:23 Kodexky Dont remove server capabilities.
08:23 Zeno` Kodexky, it would be a compile time flag
08:23 RealBadAngel while it can be separated, it will be easy to make two builds
08:24 RealBadAngel one with server and one light with client just
08:24 Zeno` e.g. something like -DSLIM_CLIENT
08:24 Zeno` or something like that
08:24 Zeno` removing it entirely would be silly :)
08:24 Zeno` The official builds, I'd imagine, would be "full"
08:25 Kodexky Ok, i get it now. Sorry im a little overworked today.
08:25 Zeno` This is all at the "idle chit chat throwing ideas about stage" anyway :)
08:25 Zeno` It's ok
08:25 Zeno` RBA overworks me all the time so I am constantly tired
08:25 * Zeno` hides
08:26 Kodexky haha
08:26 RealBadAngel lol
08:29 Kodexky On my personal client i have restored classic mainmenu, i like to test mod there when on the move, i even carry a copy of my home server when possible, i panicked after half reading about slimming.
08:29 RealBadAngel bbl, work time
08:29 Zeno` oh yeah, don't worry about the slimming. If it even happens it'll be optional heh
08:30 Kodexky wonderful
08:30 Zeno` Well... 6:30PM here... I'd better cook some dinner
08:31 Zeno` nice to meet you Kodexky and thanks for the Android fixes
08:32 Zeno` Kodexky, something to think about...
08:32 Zeno` on PC, it's faster to run a local server and then connect the client to that local server (rather than the simple singleplayer mode). Why? I have no idea
08:33 Zeno` Hypothetically it should be identical but it's not
08:34 Kodexky Its faster indeed. Ended doing so myself.
08:36 Kodexky I was not on my machine and using windows. Had to do it that way to cope with the frequent crashes.
08:37 Kodexky well, anyway too tired to think straight. Nice to meet you and RBA as well. Bon appetit, im off to morpheus land.
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08:43 Zeno` cya :)
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09:40 rubenwardy Hello! Can this be merged? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1843
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10:03 Zeno` rubenwardy, it can
10:03 Zeno` if a dev other than myself agrees
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10:04 Zeno` This is the second case of a PR where the argument against merging it is that it takes away control from server owners/game creators
10:05 Zeno` I think it's a weak argument
10:05 Zeno` I haven't met a server owner yet who gives a sh*t
10:06 sol_invictus there are a lot of pull requests blocked by weak arguments
10:07 Zeno` sol_invictus, I still need approval from a second core dev
10:07 sol_invictus Zeno`: I do understand
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10:08 sol_invictus just pointing out there is no debate here (:
10:08 Zeno` :)
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10:09 Zeno` Most of the people running servers, who I have spoken to, are also players
10:09 Zeno` so this would be acceptable
10:10 sol_invictus a vivid example of a weak argument: https://github.com/minetest/min​etest/pull/1689#event-197321674
10:10 Zeno` I can of course put myself in the place of imaginary server operators
10:10 Zeno` But why should I do that?
10:11 sol_invictus I think all those arguments about cheating is complete bulls**t
10:11 sol_invictus you just remove checklocalprivilege and you got everything you want
10:11 Zeno` Well, I think the same arguments saying "this should be a server operators decision" are also bullshit
10:11 sol_invictus no need to be an egghead c++ coder
10:12 Zeno` It's bullshit because I have not seen a game (or a server) where the operator/game dev has made that decision
10:13 sol_invictus aha
10:14 Zeno` look at #1867
10:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine
10:14 Zeno` every single player (and most of those players also have a server) want it
10:14 Zeno` saying that "well there might be a server operator who wants to control that" is, IMO, dumb
10:14 Zeno` saying it's not dumb... blocking it because of that is dumb
10:15 Zeno` I mean PilzAdam does have a point, but is it meaningful?
10:15 sol_invictus it's dumb because a server operator can't really control what's happening client-side
10:16 Zeno` Take my server. I want people to be able to place a block where they stand. I'm not going to give them noclip to do that
10:16 Zeno` And I really don't care if they place a block where they stand or not (and I doubt any server operators do)
10:17 Amaz If you change the code, (semi-hacked client) you can do it anyway.
10:18 sol_invictus that's m point, Amaz
10:18 Zeno` of course you can
10:18 Amaz So server operators don't really have that much control.
10:18 Zeno` If I, as a server operator, wanted to force pink clouds as a game decisions... well that's *my* problem
10:19 Zeno` not the engine's problem
10:20 Zeno` I can see where some things that players want and what hosting people want can be in conflict... but these examples are NOT (IMO) examples of them
10:20 Zeno` and I want to merge these requests because I agree with the majority rather than the minority
10:24 Zeno` I will ignore arguments that mention "the game designer or a server operator" unless a game designer or server operator speaks up :)
10:24 Zeno` If they don't then the safe assumption is that they don't care
10:25 Zeno` If players speak up, I'm sure those running servers can as well
10:26 Zeno` without me trying to imagine what they want or don't want
10:29 Megaf [4431056.629056] Out of memory in UB 102: OOM killed process 31900 (minetestserver) score 0 vm:1187744kB, rss:505876kB, swap:518020kB
10:29 Megaf Please fix your memory leaks!
10:31 Megaf Maybe those billions of warnings are cause some kind of memory leak
10:31 Megaf I wouldnt have memory leaks before that
10:31 jin_xi ...so turn off strict module or what its called
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11:08 Zeno` can it be turned off?
11:10 jin_xi comment out line 20 in builtin/init.lua
11:10 jin_xi ?
11:10 Zeno` that's not turning it off :P
11:10 Zeno` well it is, but it's not a setting
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11:21 jin_xi should only explicitly be turned on for server setup/mod developping
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11:45 Zeno` make a pR :P
11:47 Zeno` #1843 ... comments please before I merge?
11:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1843 -- Add setting to customise stack max by rubenwardy
11:47 Zeno` sfan5 ^^^
11:50 Zeno` celeron55 ^^^
11:52 Zeno` Merging #1744 as it's been agreed upon (although not as an ideal solution)
11:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1744 -- Only set the camera update keymap when using a debug build by rubenwardy
12:00 Zeno` merging #1874 (sapier + zeno)
12:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1874 -- Fix some undeclared global variables by CraigyDavi
12:00 Zeno` in 10 minutes :)
12:04 Zeno` those fixes are required due to SN "strict" patch thingy
12:42 Zeno` I think I fell asleep!
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13:09 Zeno` Wayward_Onezie!
13:11 Zeno` oop, sorry. Wrong window
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13:34 kahrl ...why didn't I think of that earlier
13:35 kahrl I found an embarrassingly simple fix for the "thin black line" artifacts on the wield item that doesn't enable anisotropic filtering
13:35 Zeno` fix it then :)
13:35 kahrl (so it fixes that as well as the blurriness problem)
13:36 kahrl replace material.setFlag(video::EMF_ANISOTROPIC_FILTER, true); with material.setFlag(video::EMF_USE_MIP_MAPS, false);
13:37 kahrl I'll merge it in half an hour so we can see what that one will break
13:37 kahrl :P
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13:42 kahrl I made it respect the anisotropic_filter setting as well, here is the full commit: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/e7e4d3f233bc2272fb73
13:43 kahrl brb
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14:15 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/1867#issuecomment-64518337 we should make a fundamental decision whether we want to optimize the game for players that are _currently_ playing the game, or whether we want to optimize it for more long-term goals (like turning Minetest into a generic engine)
14:16 PilzAdam this would make it easier for everyone to handle such pull requests
14:17 Zeno` Hi PilzAdam
14:17 Zeno` I am glad you're here ;)
14:17 Zeno` Do you know why BlockMen added that "feature" in the first place?
14:18 PilzAdam which "feature"?
14:18 Zeno` And, yes, possibly there needs to be a fundamental decision made, but I'm only interested in the history right now
14:19 Zeno` The "feature" that stops people placing a node where they are standing
14:19 PilzAdam AFAIK it was added because it's more realistic?
14:20 Zeno` In real life, if I am standing right here, I can pour a block of concrete on myself
14:21 PilzAdam but you can't place a block of stone where your feet are
14:21 Zeno` But my point is that the original decision was a fundamental decision as well
14:21 Zeno` And from what I can find there was not a huge issue making this original decision
14:22 Zeno` (I'm just trying to understand; I'm not singling you out... well, I am in a way, but not maliciously)
14:23 PilzAdam I don't see how it was a fundamental decision
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14:23 Zeno` So how is it a fundamental decision in making the behaviour optional?
14:24 PilzAdam (it already is optional)
14:24 PilzAdam this is not limited to only this issue
14:25 Zeno` I know
14:25 Zeno` how is it already optional?
14:25 PilzAdam if the server grants you noclip, then you can turn it off
14:25 Zeno` but noclip gives way more than this feature
14:26 PilzAdam not if you dont have fly
14:26 Amaz It allows you to see underground.
14:27 Zeno` ok, let's step back a bit
14:27 Zeno` why is this feature bad?
14:27 PilzAdam Amaz, oh, right
14:27 Zeno` until 6 months ago it was the default behaviour
14:28 PilzAdam Zeno`, because it's counter-intuitive (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/85)
14:28 Zeno` and I do not know ANY server operator or game creator who has a problem with this
14:29 Zeno` well, flying is not exactly intuitive either
14:29 kilbith place_where_you_stand also allow more easily the building of the high, ugly 1x1 towers on servers...
14:29 Amaz If a games wants players not to use it, it can use setting_set or whatever.
14:29 Zeno` kilbith, rubbish. It's still very easy to do that
14:29 Amaz kilbith, it's disabled by default anyway.
14:29 PilzAdam Amaz, Lua games can't change the client configuration
14:30 kilbith actually, it's not that easy as before.
14:30 Zeno` kilbith, it is
14:30 Amaz Ah. I was thinking in singleplayer.
14:30 Zeno` kilbith, join ANY server and make a 1x1 pillar currently
14:31 Zeno` heck join mine and I'll give you unlimited cobble to make one. It's not hard
14:32 Zeno` PilzAdam, as I said in my comment I understand your position
14:32 Zeno` And in many ways agree with it
14:32 Zeno` But...
14:32 pitriss Zeno`: I support to revert to previous state or make it player configurable..:)
14:32 Zeno` The players want this
14:33 Zeno` No server operators have commented on it, so I have to assume they don't care
14:33 pitriss that was worst commit in last year..
14:33 pitriss if i want realistic building i can go outside and play with real bricks:)
14:34 PilzAdam Zeno`, the question now is, do we follow what the current players want from us, or do we follow what would be better for long-term things (e.g. for future game creators, that want control over this)
14:34 PilzAdam Zeno`, Megaf is a server operator
14:34 celeron55 client-side options are quite cheap and can be removed or replaced with server-side ones without many issues
14:34 Zeno` PilzAdam, we, for now, follow what the players want
14:35 celeron55 i don't really see a reason why that couldn't be a client-side option for now
14:35 Zeno` if a server person wants this added then they can argue their point
14:35 PilzAdam celeron55, are we still in a state where we add things "for now"?
14:35 Zeno` PilzAdam, and MegaF wants this commit
14:35 celeron55 PilzAdam: when iterating on software, you always add things "for now" and remove them later if needed
14:36 Zeno` We should not make up imaginary scenarios
14:36 celeron55 we just should keep track of what is there "for now" and what is meant to be persistent
14:36 celeron55 it might be somewhat unclear
14:40 Zeno` PilzAdam, I think the original commit that disabled this behaviour was not thought through as thoroughly as this commit that adds it back as an option
14:40 celeron55 PilzAdam: also, i don't see this as being important to a game; why do you think it is?
14:41 Zeno` And I think you have guessed now that if I get one core dev to support me merging it I will. I will also, of course, consider a future pull request that reverts that behaviour if there is a good reason to do so.
14:43 PilzAdam celeron55, it may be an unwanted option to hide from players or mobs
14:43 Zeno` PilzAdam, these are may may may mays. There is no evidence that server operators care about that at all
14:44 PilzAdam Zeno`, server operators are not game developers
14:44 Zeno` PilzAdam, point me to a game developer that cares about this :(
14:44 PilzAdam <-
14:45 celeron55 well in that case i don't know, try to solve it somehow
14:45 PilzAdam its a rather minor detail, but I think it's "weird" to be able to walk inside nodes if you placed them inside yourself
14:45 celeron55 clearly the current situation is too inconvenient though (according to what people report)
14:45 Zeno` in that case I say we merge and THEN work it out
14:45 Zeno` imo the behaviour should not have been changed in the first place
14:46 Zeno` and it possibly can be worked out, but the PR is probably good for now
14:46 Zeno` at least it's set off by default
14:47 PilzAdam I never said I oppose to merging it (I think I'm too inactive currently to do that)
14:47 celeron55 like, the thing here is that a game should be able to disallow it, but most games don't care and thus in those cases it should be the user's choice
14:47 Zeno` PilzAdam, will you agree to me merging it then?
14:47 hydalgo ThatGraemeGuy: thank you for the answers!
14:47 PilzAdam no, because I think it should be done better
14:47 PilzAdam I guess I'm "neutral" then?
14:47 Zeno` And then after that we can work on a better solution
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14:49 Zeno` Look, the way I see it is that most servers don't care and the players want this (configurable)
14:50 Zeno` This PR will revert to the previous behaviour for those who want it and are smart enough to do it
14:50 Zeno` it seems a small concession to make for the interim
14:51 Zeno` Then when a properly considered change is devises it can be another pR
14:52 Zeno` devised*
14:53 Zeno` At this moment in the evolution of the game I'd rather keep the players happy than game developers. I understand the importance of this issue but atm there is no serious alternative
14:55 Zeno` PilzAdam, I really would like your understanding before I merge this :(
14:55 Zeno` it's not the end of the world
14:56 PenguinDad How about using a server side setting to "block" the client side setting?
14:56 PilzAdam I do understand your point
14:56 Zeno` PenguinDad, that's possible but that has to be another PR
14:57 Zeno` this current PR is merely reverting the behaviour to how it always was but requiring the user to choose the "always was" behaviour
14:59 Zeno` and I really really doubt casual users are going to bother modifying their .conf
14:59 shadowzone I don't mind modifying my .conf but it does get a bit difficult
14:59 shadowzone especially considering I'm only using 1 monitor.
14:59 Zeno` see, even shadowzone can't be fscked doing it
15:00 shadowzone And I'm a pro or what?
15:00 Zeno` err... yeah you're a pro!
15:00 shadowzone Okay.
15:00 shadowzone I guess
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15:01 Zeno` C'mon PilzAdam, be reasonable :(
15:02 PilzAdam what do you want from me?
15:03 Zeno` just say "ok merge it" and we'll work out a better solution later :p
15:04 PilzAdam can't you find another dev to do that?
15:04 celeron55 merge it
15:04 Zeno` ok :)
15:04 Zeno` thanks
15:04 Zeno` PilzAdam, we will work on this though ok?
15:05 PilzAdam I don't know how often I will be here
15:05 PilzAdam so be prepared to do it alone
15:05 Zeno` that's ok... it's on my TODO list
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15:36 Ritchie hello, i don't like that commit from issue #85 too
15:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/85 -- Placing a block on the ground where the player stands
15:37 VanessaE zeno merged a fix for that with commit 9f927900
15:38 VanessaE update to HEAD and set,  enable_build_where_you_stand = true   in minetest.conf
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15:57 PilzAdam https://launchpadlibrarian.net/191262376/buil​dlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.minetest_2014112615​46-0~3107~ubuntu12.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
15:58 PilzAdam ^ kahrl
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16:09 PilzAdam my local build fails too, using Irrlicht 1.7.2
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18:00 RealBadAngel hi
18:00 RealBadAngel whats up?
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18:06 kahrl PilzAdam: oh wtf
18:06 kahrl why does everything have to be so hard?
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18:07 kahrl is there a way to accomplish the same thing in irrlicht 1.7.2?
18:09 Krock what's bad about using 1.8.1?
18:09 rubenwardy Lack of support in package systems.
18:09 rubenwardy Although that might have changed
18:09 * Krock is not affected :)
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18:13 Calinou https://packages.debian.org/se​arch?keywords=libirrlicht-dev
18:13 Calinou https://packages.ubuntu.com/se​arch?keywords=libirrlicht-dev
18:14 Megaf Hi all
18:14 Megaf Zeno`: I have some information on the memory leak
18:17 Megaf Zeno`: PilzAdam: kahrl: It seems like minetest server is always consuming more and more and more RAM, without ever releasing it.
18:17 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/plain/133688
18:21 kahrl PilzAdam: I fixed the build issue for now
18:23 PilzAdam yeah, works now
18:23 PilzAdam but I see minor graphical glitches :-/
18:24 kahrl I know
18:24 kahrl I hope we can find a way to fix them
18:24 kahrl if not, eventually the distros will move on to 1.8 ;)
18:26 PilzAdam that would be 2017 for mine
18:29 Megaf You dont really care about hardware with limited resources, do you? Why bother fixing something if computer have lots of ram and will not crash because of a stupid bug...
18:30 Megaf Its easier to say that its crashing because the little amount of ram...#
18:30 Megaf like sapier seing that it was crashing because it was arm
18:33 RealBadAngel Megaf, sometimes its just true
18:34 RealBadAngel folks like to turn everything on and then complain
18:34 twoelk yeah, I want everything and I want it now
18:35 RealBadAngel and we should provide i7 for each mt user, sure :P
18:35 RealBadAngel any more wishes?
18:35 Krock i9 pls
18:36 RealBadAngel mt claus has i7s this yr only, so sorry pal ;)
18:36 Krock eww too bad. Then I'll stay on my Athlon 4000+ :P
18:37 RealBadAngel please do notice im developing all that high end effects on core 2 duo, 1,8ghz
18:37 * twoelk takes note that every piece of trivial software and evry tiny game is not whispering anymore but screaming: go! go and buy a new computer
18:37 RealBadAngel and i have good frame rate
18:38 RealBadAngel otherwise i wont be even trying to make a pull with a eye candy
18:39 RealBadAngel one thing i have noticed lately: i switched from HD 4670 to GTX 550 Ti
18:39 RealBadAngel and guess what
18:39 RealBadAngel no frame rate change, at all
18:40 twoelk so the probleme lives somewhere else than better hardware?
18:40 RealBadAngel we got lately fps ups, real ones
18:40 RealBadAngel all thx to optimization of the code
18:40 RealBadAngel and redoing things
18:41 Calinou 550 Ti is not that much better compared to 4670
18:41 Calinou also, game is CPU limited, heavily
18:41 Calinou if I don't limit FPS, then my CPU is capped, not my GPU
18:41 Calinou my GPU has lots of room when I have 200 FPS…
18:41 RealBadAngel calinou at least 3 times faster
18:41 Calinou oh
18:41 RealBadAngel 4670 was budget card 3 yrs ago
18:41 RealBadAngel and i paid 150$ for it then
18:42 RealBadAngel now i would have to pay the same to get used 550ti
18:43 kahrl PilzAdam: are the glitches still there if you enable anisotropic filtering?
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18:44 PilzAdam kahrl, I have aniso filtering enabled...
18:45 kahrl hmm, strange
18:45 kahrl what exactly do the glitches look like?
18:46 PilzAdam thin lines
18:46 kahrl that's the kind of thing that anisotropic filtering fixes (if it doesn't cause other problem), but I know what the problem is
18:46 kahrl other problems*
18:47 kahrl RealBadAngel: do you think anisotropic filtering can be enabled on the wieldmesh regardless of resolution? (unlike bi/trilinear filtering)
18:47 PilzAdam do I need to configure anything else except the checkbox in the menu?
18:47 kahrl PilzAdam: no
18:47 kahrl but it isn't applied because of wieldmesh.cpp:283
18:49 puhfa hi yall. we have a mod (no idea which one) that causes get_perlin_map to crash the server (bad_alloc), and i think the mod is calling register_on_generated with the parameters in a wrong order (max, min instead of min, max). so the question is, is the unit of get_perlin_maps size parameter nodes or blocks?
18:49 puhfa https://github.com/ethic-rush/snow​/blob/master/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L94 <- i think this results in <= 0 in our case
18:50 kahrl RealBadAngel: in other words, do you agree with https://gist.github.com/ka​hrl/52e88e9a78863be2ea1c?
18:50 puhfa (sry i thought you were done)
18:50 kahrl puhfa: no problem
18:51 kahrl puhfa: is that related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1858?
18:52 puhfa probably. i tracked the c++ source down and the 3-param constructor of Noise was the first one where memory was allocated
18:53 RealBadAngel kahrl, yes
18:53 puhfa we are trying to fix it by ensuring max > min in register_on_generated, but havent tested it yet
18:53 kahrl RealBadAngel: ok, I'll merge it
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18:54 RealBadAngel btw, when switched to gtx550ti i have no "holes in meshes" problem at all
18:54 RealBadAngel even for 16x in cache
18:55 hmmmm puhfa, the units are in nodes.  the range is inclusive
18:56 Calinou <+RealBadAngel> now i would have to pay the same to get used 550ti
18:56 Calinou what?!?!
18:56 puhfa thanks
18:56 Calinou an used 570 is ~ 70 €
18:56 Calinou where do you buy your cards?
18:56 kahrl PilzAdam: pushed that fix, does it work for you?
18:56 hmmmm mixing up your minp and maxp would result in a negative number, which would be an extremely large unsigned number.  so yes, that would cause the issue you're talking about
18:56 PilzAdam kahrl, yes :-)
18:57 kahrl awesome :)
18:57 puhfa would love to find the mod that calls it with such parameters. is there any easy way to find out which one it is?
18:57 hmmmm hmmm... I think I know how to 'fix' the Noise ctor std::bad_allocs... simply throw an exception saying "Your noise parameters are either incorrect or too high for this particular machine to handle!"
18:57 hmmmm puhfa, I think a lua stack backtrace would do the trick
18:58 puhfa nope, https://gist.github.com/cra​zyR14/8c5bd478997b0fb7df04
18:58 hmmmm but the thing is the exception would need to be handled as a LuaError
18:58 puhfa oh...
18:58 puhfa it actually does
18:58 puhfa says here, snow
18:59 hmmmm hmm
19:00 kahrl #1875 seems obvious enough, should I merge it?
19:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1875 -- Dont corrupt stepheight when setting other properties by CiaranG
19:01 hmmmm kahrl, LGTM
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19:03 kahrl done
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20:48 Sokomine thanks for merging #1867  i'm sure it'll make a lot of players happy. those who care more about realism than easy steering still can leave the setting off. and if there's really a game one day that wants to enforce that players can't build where they stand, adding a server-controlled priv for that ought to be no problem
20:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine
20:48 * Amaz is very happy!
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23:46 ShadowNinja hmmmm: It doesn't have to be a LuaError, that exception class doesn't do anything special anymore.  Anything derived from BaseException should send it's what() on as a Lua error if it's been called from Lua.
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