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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-09-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 RealBadAngel if intersection will be found you can just stop the movement
00:02 RealBadAngel ^^ for the record
00:03 RealBadAngel !tell jin_xi http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-09-26#i_3946166
00:08 RealBadAngel i guess that wont work ;)
00:08 VanessaE ``tell
00:08 VanessaE er,
00:08 VanessaE ''tell
01:16 ShadowNinja kaeza: Sounds like you want an INI-like format.  That sounds O.K., but hard to do compatibly.  It would halp with, eg, the need to split the client's address setting and the server's one.
01:17 RealBadAngel why not make just minetest.client.config and minetest.server.config? (second thought)
01:18 ShadowNinja Actually, Lua was originally designed as a configuration file format.  We could use Lua for the conf.
01:18 VanessaE RealBadAngel: you mean like I suggested hours ago? :P
01:18 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Loads of different files with only a sew lines in each.
01:18 ShadowNinja few*
01:18 RealBadAngel just 2
01:18 RealBadAngel client and server
01:19 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Could be done, but aditional groupings would be good, eg, "visuals".
01:19 RealBadAngel that can be done in comments
01:20 RealBadAngel no need for code to handle that
01:20 ShadowNinja But it doesn't actually namespace the variables.
01:20 RealBadAngel namespace is just for humans
01:20 RealBadAngel comments can do that equally good
01:20 ShadowNinja # visuals \n foo=x \n #misc \n foo=y \0 confilcts
01:21 RealBadAngel take care of your foo and give it a proper name ;)
01:21 kaeza ShadowNinja, "hard to do compatibly", only compat issue I see is maybe old configs having e.g. "enable_shaders" in "root" section (at beginning, before section headers), and I already adressed the issue (setting_get("graphics", "foo") -> gets "foo" from "graphics" if it exists, else from "foo" in "root" section)
01:22 kaeza also, see the other point:
01:22 RealBadAngel you are trying again to overcomplicate simple things
01:22 ShadowNinja kaeza: Hmmm, that would be acceptable.
01:22 kaeza also related: <diemartin> my main concern with settings is traversing an entire [mapping] of maybe 100s of settings is waaay slower than say, look up a section in a list of maybe 10s of sections (at most), followed by a lookup in a table of say < 10 settings in most cases (with exception of [server] or [client] maybe)
01:23 RealBadAngel related but goal is another
01:23 ShadowNinja kaeza: std::map shuould take O(log(n)) time, so it isn't such a big difference.
01:23 RealBadAngel all settings shall be read just once
01:23 RealBadAngel and made aviable via settings class
01:24 kaeza RealBadAngel, not possible (see e.g. disable_fire)
01:24 RealBadAngel definitely possible
01:24 RealBadAngel by now we do read them all the time and sometimes store them internally within classes
01:25 RealBadAngel there has to be one master settings class
01:25 kaeza how? I mean, you are allowed to change disable_fire at runtime, and fire mod acts accordingly; if you cache that, how do you know when the setting changed without re-reading the setting every, say, 5 seconds?
01:25 RealBadAngel update master class
01:26 kaeza ...
01:26 RealBadAngel all code that will read it will get current setting
01:26 kaeza we are using different definitions of "read"
01:26 RealBadAngel read = get
01:26 RealBadAngel get from memory
01:27 RealBadAngel on startup read from file
01:27 RealBadAngel on shutdown write to file
01:27 kaeza that's what I'm saying (read = get from memory, i.e. Settings object)
01:27 RealBadAngel but runtime get from class
01:27 * kaeza is confused
01:28 RealBadAngel by now we are using string based get
01:28 RealBadAngel thats wrong
01:28 RealBadAngel core shall use direct settings class member names
01:29 RealBadAngel something like settings->enable_shaders
01:29 kaeza eh?
01:29 RealBadAngel what eh?
01:30 RealBadAngel you dont get it?
01:30 RealBadAngel instead of g_settings->getBool("enable_shaders");
01:31 kaeza no, I don't understand how that's any different from the current way of doing things, and why you should bloat Settings class with special cases
01:31 RealBadAngel which means fiddling with lists, parsers and strings
01:32 RealBadAngel bloat? lol
01:32 RealBadAngel its overbloated in every meaning of the word bloat
01:32 RealBadAngel its piece of flexible crap
01:32 RealBadAngel that is slow as hell
01:33 RealBadAngel called runtime in draw loops to play with damn strings
01:34 RealBadAngel every coder out there who made runtime gfx code seeing such pearls will just say WTF
01:35 kaeza exactly, and that's why my position of "it's waaaay slower"
01:35 kaeza but that is not a solution
01:35 RealBadAngel solution is fast code, not understandable
01:35 RealBadAngel its a game not a coders playground
01:36 kaeza the solution would be either cache the value (and lose dynamic values at runtime), or make Settings as fast as it can get
01:36 RealBadAngel if some1 cannot get it, go back to coders kindergarten
01:38 RealBadAngel this way doesnt mean loose dynamic ones
01:39 RealBadAngel its a matter on how you will use settings class
01:39 RealBadAngel you will have to call the variable by its exact name and know its type
01:40 RealBadAngel but you already do when you atempt to use it
01:40 RealBadAngel so thats not a problem
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01:52 Zeno` Thanks ShadowNinja
01:53 Zeno` r.e. the version thing
02:02 VanessaE RealBadAngel: cache all relevant variables to a class (or whatever), reference the resultant semi-constants, update the whole damn class any time a variable needs to be updated (i.e. the user did /set or clicked a checkbox, or moved a slider on the "sound" settings dialog, etc).
02:02 VanessaE that's probably the best way
02:03 kaeza "cache all relevant variables to a class" but not to Settings pls!
02:05 VanessaE well remember, I think in oldskool terms.  to me, it would just be a fuckload of variables with extra foo_ prefixes (and restricted scope as appropriate)
02:06 VanessaE but whatever does the job without making the code unreadable or slow
02:12 VanessaE brb
02:21 RealBadAngel kaeza, there should be 3 steps
02:22 RealBadAngel read the settings file(s), store them in a class
02:22 RealBadAngel allow reading modyfing it runtime
02:22 RealBadAngel save to file on exit
02:23 RealBadAngel ofc such class have to be global
02:23 RealBadAngel with all the members public
02:23 VanessaE didn't I just say that? :P
02:24 RealBadAngel i just rephrased that
02:24 RealBadAngel btw at runtime we could make client class and servers one
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02:25 RealBadAngel fed with 2 files
02:25 RealBadAngel imho that way is plain dumb simple and fast
02:41 Zeno` what settings are currently not "cached"?
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07:27 * Krock gives ShadowNinja #1691
07:32 Zeno` Krock did you add the new files from the previous commit to your build?
07:32 Krock Zeno`, what you mean?
07:33 Zeno` I dunno how to do that with MSVC, but it looks like it's not including the new file (files?) created by: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/6bc4cad0eddd7a7cf593ca1471599e2d75727379
07:33 Zeno` Where SN split Settings into two files
07:34 Krock c061bdd3 is the first bad commit
07:34 Zeno` so 6bc4cad compiles?
07:34 Zeno` weird
07:35 Krock yes, 6bc4cad comiled fine
07:35 Krock *compiled
07:36 Zeno` I wish I knew how MSVC worked
07:37 Zeno` all those linker errors would suggest to me it was the previous commit and that the minetest.vcxproj is missing the new file *shrug*
07:39 Zeno` i.e. for some reasons settings.cpp is not being included
07:39 Krock really? and that's the fail?
07:39 Zeno` I would guess that's it
07:39 Zeno` I don't have MSVC and have never used it but it makes sense
07:40 Krock well, settings.cpp is in cmakelists
07:42 Zeno` oh MSCV uses cmakelists?
07:43 Krock msbuild (MSVC) checks the building system and updates it if chamkelists.txt changed
07:43 Krock *cmakelists.txt
07:43 Zeno` hmm ok
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07:45 Krock weird, I'll have to try 6bc4cad0 again, the as "bad" marked commit has nothing to do with settings
07:46 Zeno` I *think* that 6bc4cad0 would be the culprit, but please check :)
07:46 Krock *waits 20 minutes*
07:49 Zeno` I think I'd go crazy
08:04 Krock checked again, 6bc4cad0 actually works
08:05 Krock \o/ only 17 minutes
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08:11 Zeno` well something doesn't make sense lol
08:24 Krock wat.
08:24 Krock I don't get it
08:25 Zeno` ?
08:25 Krock c061bdd3 just compiled fine
08:26 Krock seems like I only had to delete the old settings.obj in the build folder
08:27 Krock so it recompiles the stuff
08:28 Zeno` that might make sense
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08:51 Krock problem solved. aagh. 6 builds in 2.5 hours with the result: it would work with a build from scrach or a little deletion of a file
08:51 Krock I love this world
08:51 Zeno` all is not wasted!
08:52 Zeno` you learned something, right? So 6.5 hours well spent
08:52 Zeno` err, well no
08:52 Krock 2.5 *
08:52 Zeno` but I'm trying to look on the bright side
08:52 Zeno` 2.5* yes
08:52 Krock always look on the bright side of life
08:52 Zeno` i hate that song
08:52 Krock I love it
08:55 Zeno` variety is the spice of life
08:56 PenguinDad Interesting dev discussion ;D
08:57 Zeno` yep
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12:05 kahrl all the fstk files still say "self program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify ..." :D
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13:32 sfan5 ignacio: please fix your connection
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13:47 hmmmm sfan5, perhaps you should ban him
13:47 sfan5 good idea
13:47 hmmmm so, how did you get ops?
13:48 sfan5 /msg ChanServ op #minetest-dev
13:48 hmmmm are you the only one with the permissions to do so?
13:49 hmmmm it's like there's never anybody around who has op privileges when they need to be around
13:50 sfan5 calinou, pilzadam, celer​on55 and me have +o
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13:54 hmmmm sfan5:  maybe it would be prudent if more people had +o.
13:55 sfan5 shall I give you +o? (I'm not even sure if I can)
13:55 kaeza sfan5, same on main channel (the ban, not +o)
13:56 hmmmm yes...
13:57 hmmmm also it should somehow be made public which people have ops rather than remain a mystery
13:57 sfan5 /cs access list #minetest-dev
13:58 hmmmm doesn't produce any output for me.
13:59 sfan5 look in every tab
13:59 sfan5 xchat/hexchat seems to place it somewhere randomly
13:59 hmmmm yup... it's nowhere
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14:02 * Krock wonders if it's possible to make screenshots saving as jpeg with quality 80
14:02 sfan5 yes
14:32 pitriss sfan5: please can you ban ignacio also on #minetest?
14:33 sfan5 pitriss: I'll consider it if the join-spam gets too annoying
14:33 Krock it's already annoying
14:33 pitriss ok thank you.
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15:12 Phroh|orca Does the Lua bridge make calls to cpp functions or does the engine do some funky custom gluing?
15:13 Phroh|orca Also, hi
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15:15 sfan5 Phroh|orca: former
15:16 Phroh|orca Awesome, thank you
15:18 Strikingwolf so I'm trying to get into Minetest modding and I don't quite know what yall mean by the base directory of minetest
15:18 Phroh|orca The root folder
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15:18 Strikingwolf thanks
15:19 Phroh|orca Must the OS X version be compiled by xCode?
15:20 Phroh|orca Xcode*
15:23 Strikingwolf Phroh|orca, I am using IntelliJ IDEA's Lua module
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15:23 Strikingwolf Phroh|orca, I had never heard of this :P
15:24 Calinou the unofficial OS X builds are built using Xcode
15:25 sfan5 Phroh|orca: it'll probably work without xcode
15:26 Phroh|orca Calinou, thank you
15:26 Phroh|orca sfan5 i ask because i dont know if there is a CLI tool chain in place
15:27 Phroh|orca Strikingwolf, thanks, but im not looking to write lua
15:27 Strikingwolf I still can't find the root folder Phroh|orca ? is that the src folder of the version on the github or is that in the game files of the application?
15:27 Strikingwolf Phroh|orca, oh are you working on core dev?
15:27 sfan5 Strikingwolf: it depends on how you installed minetest?
15:27 Phroh|orca Strikingwolf yeah that's my interest
15:27 Strikingwolf sfan5, I installed it using the OSX app
15:28 sfan5 hm
15:28 sfan5 ~/.minetest/
15:28 Phroh|orca Ew
15:28 Calinou it would be nice if you could make your own 0.4.10 (or better, Git) build
15:28 sfan5 or something with "Application Support"
15:28 Calinou and release it on forum
15:29 Phroh|orca App support is in ~/library/
15:30 Phroh|orca Calinou, that would be nice
15:31 Strikingwolf I see the Application support but that seems like it just stores worlds and cache
15:31 Phroh|orca Strikingwolf are you making a mod?
15:31 Phroh|orca You probably want the game files root dir if so
15:31 Strikingwolf Phroh|orca, just trying to learn the API at this point :P
15:32 Strikingwolf minetest_game? Phroh|orca
15:32 Phroh|orca Probably
15:33 Strikingwolf Yeah I've done some minecraft modding, and with the recent MS thing we may be moving here at some point so I am trying to familiarize myself with the API
15:34 Phroh|orca Same
15:34 Phroh|orca MS acquisition was no thanks imo
15:34 Phroh|orca And java
15:57 Phroh|orca Is minetest gpl or apache? (Or another?)
15:58 Calinou LGPL 2.1+
15:58 Phroh|orca Ok
15:58 Calinou (Freeminer, a fork of Minetest, is GPL, so not compatible)
15:59 Calinou see mod guidelines on forum though
15:59 Phroh|orca Right
15:59 Phroh|orca I'm not a fan of GPL, was just curious
15:59 Calinou http://images.wikia.com/mlpfanart/images​/4/41/Rainbow_Dash_haters_gonna_hate.gif
15:59 Phroh|orca That was fast
15:59 Calinou auto-replaces…
16:00 sfan5 ಠ_ಠ
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16:19 Krock #1690 ready to discuss again
16:22 Phroh|orca Aw, no bot to auto link?
16:30 Strikingwolf so I am using the IDEA workspace for this. Does anyone know a way to do remote debugging there?
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17:04 Strikingwolf man it has been a while since I've done Lua...
17:10 Strikingwolf Ok so I know how to out-source my code in case of functions, but does anyone know how to do this when the code is in another mod
17:10 Strikingwolf say WolfCore or something of the sort?
17:13 Strikingwolf noone?
17:15 jin_xi all mods are loaded in a global scope, so put stuff you want to acces from other mods in a non local table or so
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17:22 RevMDent RealBadAngel - Got a sec for a question about the is6d code in dir_to_facedir ?
17:23 Strikingwolf so like functions = {}
17:23 Strikingwolf then register a function jin_xi
17:24 Strikingwolf then functions.examplefunction = examplefunction
17:24 Strikingwolf then say return functions?
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17:33 Krock RealBadAngel, using drawtype "glasslike_framed", getting those results: http://i.imgur.com/mJQE8Ml.png the outer border does not fit with the other side
17:33 VanessaE Krock: I see nothing wrong there?
17:34 Krock VanessaE, look at the borders of those glass.
17:34 Krock some pixels are transparent and therefore you can see - it doesn't match
17:34 VanessaE oh wait
17:35 VanessaE you mean like up close to those water nodes on the obsidian glass?
17:35 Krock wat. no. let me mark it
17:35 VanessaE yeah, better you should :)
17:37 Krock http://i.imgur.com/X1UTBqbs.jpg
17:37 Krock http://i.imgur.com/X1UTBqb.png
17:37 VanessaE yeah, that's what I was referring to
17:37 Krock ah, so you think it's a bug?
17:37 VanessaE imho the borders of the glass shouldn't have any transparent pixels at all
17:37 VanessaE new textures are needed here
17:38 VanessaE it just looks bad with this drawtype
17:38 VanessaE (with normal glass, it's acceptable)
17:38 Krock but well, it's a bug
17:39 VanessaE yeah
17:39 VanessaE the actual position/rotation of the texture is bugged
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17:44 BlockMen comments on #1694?
17:45 VanessaE there is no 1694 :P
17:45 VanessaE yeah there is
17:45 BlockMen sfan5, i guess this means "merge if you want"?
17:45 BlockMen https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/pull/320#issuecomment-56792237
17:45 VanessaE stupid github
17:46 BlockMen VanessaE, lol
17:46 Krock BlockMen, thanks for pointing to this drawtype. created a new issue ( #1695 )
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17:47 sfan5 BlockMen: absolutely
17:48 VanessaE mmmm
17:48 VanessaE yeah I guess that's okay
17:49 VanessaE wait, don't you need to add the new drawtype in the right place in the code so as not to break old clients?
17:49 VanessaE (as in, after all the other drawtypes)
17:50 VanessaE ah, you already did
17:50 VanessaE I was just reading the wrong part of the code
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18:32 kdorf are detached inventories persisted when the server shuts down? it looks like they aren't but it'd be nice to have confirmation I'm not just doing something stupid
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18:38 Krock inventories should save
18:39 Krock Question alert: How can I "compile" those .po and .pot files for my locales folder?
18:40 kdorf Krock: okay - so maybe I am doing something wrong? I am using minetest.get_inventory({type='detached', name='void_storage'}) and if that returns nil, I create the detached inv. but it always returns nil when the game loads.
18:40 Krock kdorf, maybe you need to save something in it first, so it's not empty
18:41 kdorf Krock: my test was to actually put something in it in the game. I have a chest with a formspec that displays the inventory
18:41 kdorf Krock: if it helps, I am trying to replicate the functionality of the ender chest from Minecraft
18:41 Krock sry. "ender chest" does not say anything to me. never played mc
18:43 kdorf Krock: no worries. easy concept: it's a type of chest that shares its inventory with other chests of that type
18:43 Krock ah.
18:43 kdorf and I have that part working. the chests' inventories are shared
18:43 kdorf but when I quit the game and come back, it's empty
18:45 Krock and you're sure, it doesn't overwrite on startup?
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18:47 Krock interesting. I can't find any way to not clear it :/
18:47 kdorf yeah, seems weird
18:48 Krock kdorf, look at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9495 -> wifi chest
18:48 kdorf Krock: interesting, I'll have to look at how that is done
18:48 Krock it's attached to the player's inventory
18:50 kdorf okay, hrm. I guess I could kinda hack that to work. can you access other players inventories if they are not on the server?
18:50 Calinou <Krock> Question alert: How can I "compile" those .po and .pot files for my locales folder?
18:50 Calinou msgfmt does that
18:51 Krock Calinou, ah. but not while compiling, so I have to run it manually?
18:51 Calinou compiling automatically updates .mo files
18:51 Krock *.po?
19:01 Krock Calinou, could you help me searching a command to convert all the language files?
19:02 Krock I've searched a while now but came to no short soulation
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19:05 kaeza kdorf, afaik, technic mythril chests also have a similar function
19:08 kdorf kaeza: thanks, I will take a look and see how it is accomplished there
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19:55 Phroh|orca Hi
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20:16 Megaf_ hi
20:24 jin_xi_ ok, now colliding irrlicht particles with minetest terrain, but i think we'd need to add another collision function
20:24 jin_xi_ which returns basically only if a collision occured and the normal of the plane that got hit
20:26 VanessaE be sure you're only handling collisions at all if the particle[ spawner] in fact has them enabled
20:26 VanessaE I mean, don't bother activating that affector if it isn't needed.
20:26 jin_xi_ atm im just trying to get this running, no details
20:26 VanessaE *nod*
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23:48 Megaf_ Hi all
23:51 Megaf_ A bug followed by a backtrace
23:51 Megaf_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1697
23:51 Megaf_ s/bug/crash
23:51 Megaf_ not a really useful backtrace tho

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